May 5, 2023 • 50 mins
Howard Beck joins Harp's court to discuss this years NBA playoffs. With 25+ years on the beat working for Sports Illustrated, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Daily News and Bleacher Report his wisdom and insight go a long way.
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Marshall. Hello, and welcome toanother episode of Harp's Court. I'm your
host, Derek Harper. I amhonored to have one of my favorite guys,
and Howard Beck. Howard is oneof the top journalists and in sports
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that there is. And welcome tothe show. Howard. How are you,
Man Harp, I'm doing great,Man, appreciate you. Thank you
for the very kind introduction. Greatto see you, and as we were
just discussing offline, it's a phenomenalthat we get to reverse roles here after
all these years because I did coveragefor a brief time. Let me tell
you, though, I appreciate thatI would have never thought that this would
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come to fruition, but the factthat it has. And by the way,
Howard has Howard Beck has worked asan NBA writer both in New York
and in Los Angeles, and I'veplayed in New York and Los Angeles,
so we have that in common.What I wanted while we're on that,
what what? What do you thinkthe difference is as a writer from a
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writer's perspective in writing for the NBAin New York a post to Los Angeles.
You know, it's funny, harplike, the job is the job
wherever we are, right. ButI'd be lying if I said it doesn't
have a different vibe or a differentfeeling in different markets. Right. So
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I had seven years covering the Lakersin LA, including the lockout year when
you were with the Lakers. I'vebeen in New York for nineteen years,
nine of which I was covering theKnicks on a regular basis for the New
York Times, and they're both competitivemarkets. In both places, you have
a ton of media, a tonof interest, but it is more laid
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back in LA. Both among thefans and the media. It is more
intense and sometimes edgy, I guessamong both bands of media in New York,
and it is. It was definitelyan adjustment when I got here in
two thousand and four, after sevenyears of covering the Lakers in LA,
to to kind of try to justadapt, to figure out the New York
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vibe. Yeah, it's different.The vibe at games is different, The
vibe in the press room is isdifferent. It is just more intense.
The traffic is different, a littlebit louder the track. You know what,
though, I'll say this like peoplewill will say, like whether you're
in New York, La, Boston, all these places with traffic. All
I know is this. When Ilived in La, if I went to
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if I left her, I livedin Hermosa Beach south of Lax, it
might take me fifty minutes to getthe Staples Center downtown. It might take
two hours. The one thing Ilove about New York. I love many
things about New York, but I'lltell you this, most days, I'll
hop on that subway. It's thirtyfive minutes to the Garden, or it's
fifteen minutes to Barclay Center where theNets play, and it's the same every
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single time. So I'll take havingmass transit over the LA highways any day.
And I say that as a Californianative who grew up, you know,
and learned to drive on all thosehighways, right Like, I'll take
the subway every day. I hearyou on that, and I can relate
actually to what you're talking about unlessyou've been on a rock man. Everybody
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knows that the NBA playoffs are goinggoing on right now, and I felt,
I don't know how you feel aboutthis out, but I felt like
all year that there's been so muchthere's so much parody in the NBA until
it was very difficult to really pinpointwho was the best team in the East,
who was the best team in theWest. Has anything about the playoffs,
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And I'm sure it has surprised youthus far moving towards the second round
of the playoffs. Yeah, Imean, look, you're right, this
is a season like no other thatI can remember in my twenty six years
of covering it, and I'm surethat you've you know, the same observation
for you, as a former playerand broadcaster who has been following following this
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and been in it even longer thanI have. There's never been a season
like this during my time, right, so almost nothing would surprise me,
except except we're talking on Thursday afternoon, the day after the Miami Heat,
the Heat, who were a playin team, a play in team that
became the eighth seed and knocked outthe top seed of Milwaukee Buck Like.
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So yeah, even in a yearof parody, that one was a shocker
to me. Harp. I amstill in shock a little bit. I'm
sure the Bucks are in shock.We don't get eight one upsets very often
in this league. And it's ofall the teams, of all the number
ones that could have gone down inthe last ten twenty years, this isn't
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what I would have expected. TheBucks obviously a championship team just two years
ago. Right. Joanna's a twotime MVP who's a finalist for MVP again
this year. We'll he'll he'll probablyfinish third. Ye this is a stunner
and and I just cannot even imaginewhat the Bucks organization is thinking today as
they are trying to sift through thewreckage and figure out how to get this
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thing back on track. You knowwhat, which brings me to this after
the game, And that's the worsttime I think as a reporter to ask
a player tough questions, right,And I saw where you retweeted the situation
where Janna said, and I forgetwho it was that asked him the question
as to whether or not it wasa disappointed named of a season. What's
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your take on it? Do youfeel? I feel like it is a
disappointment. If you're expected to comeout of the East and you don't make
you fall short of that, that'sa disappointment. I don't care how you
how you look at it. Yeah, I think what got people. So
the question was by from Eric Name, really great reporter for the athletic based
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in Milwaukee. And if anybody knowsanything about Eric Name, and I want
to mention this because obviously he's he'staken a few hits today. Of course,
the way he asked the question wasabout was not about disappointment but failure.
He said, Jannis, do youconsider the season a failure? And
he asked the same quote, thesame question of coach Mike Holzer. To
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me, it's a it's the fairand right question, because yes, they're
the number one seed, they werethe favorites to win the championship. They
can't just lose early. They lostas early as can be. They lost
in the first round, two andeighth seed, and in five games.
They couldn't even stretch this thing tosix or seven games. And it's fair
when you know that the next dayis going to be all the fans and
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media are going to be saying,and other players we're gonna be saying it's
a failure. It's fairer than askJannis. Listen, is it a failure
to you? What I loved aboutJanie's response was that he said, no,
I don't accept that this is alljust These are all just steps,
This is just the journey. Basically, I thought he handled it well and
I it was a really thoughtful andconstructive response to a difficult question. But
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it's also the right question. AndI want to hear that response because what
Jannis is telling us is you mayall look at this as a failure.
And look, I'm gonna say thisagain as I've said multiple times today object
actively speaking, it's a failure.If you're the number one seed and you're
a favorite to win the champion andyou lose in the first round to an
eighth seed in five games, it'sa failure. Of course it is.
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It's also fine and fair for youas the player to tell me, listen,
it's not a failure in my mindbecause I view things in a broader,
more long range manner, and thisis another step on our journey and
maybe this is what we need todo or to reckon with in order for
us to build up better again.Like, that's fine. I'm fine with
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Yanna saying that, But the questionitself was absolutely fair. It's not a
gotcha question, and it's a chanceto you're extending an opportunity to the people
that you're covering to put it inperspective. Just because we, as the
media and fans might consider it afailure doesn't mean the Bucks necessarily will.
Now, that's it. Janna says, no, not a failure. Fine.
I totally respect that, and Iloved his response. I guarantee you
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the GM is going to consider ita failure, and the owners who employ
the GM and the coach and allthose players are going to consider a failure.
I can forgive pcent of Bucks fansare considering it a failure because because
of the expectation to be fair inappropriate. Question too, Yeah, so you
you you said putting things in perspective. Could you can you Howard put in
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perspective what Jimmy Butler did for theMiami Heat. I don't think you know,
you can go back and and lookat some of the all time great
performances. I was a huge fanback then. I was in the league.
Michael Jordan against Boston. I mean, there's just been so many great
heroics in the playoffs. Have youseen a better performance for two or three
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games than what we saw Jimmy Butlerput on against the Milwaukee Bucks. Well,
I mean, listen, Um,I covered Shack and Kobe for those
seven years. You got to playalongside those guys, so we've seen that.
You know, Shaq and Kobe havesome incredible performances. I've covered you
know, the Warriors um in theirfinals runs. I've covered Lebron James in
a bunch of his finals, mostof his finals. So yeah, I
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mean you and I have both witnessedsome incredible postseason performances, and I would
say that Jimmy Butler's might be rightup there. But what strikes me about
it, and I'm gonna turn thisback to you, Harp, Yeah,
Jimmy does not in the regular seasonand for the entirety of his career,
he does not profile as this guy. I'm not saying that, I'm not
diminishing it any him by any stretchingfacts. This is a compliment when we
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talk about great postseason performances, andyou and I could list off Michael Lebron,
Kobe Chef, Tim Duncan, anynumber of players, Kevin Durant,
Kawhi, Leonarde, the list goeson and MVPs. Yeah, but these
are all perennial MVP candidates, perennialall NBA guys, guys who chart out
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as future Hall of famers. JimmyButler does not have the profile of any
of them. So the question Ihave for you is, because your memory
may be better than mine on thisand goes back a little further, Yeah,
is there anybody that you can recallwho could turn it up this many
levels in the postseason who is nota superstar in the regular season? Is
just a really great player, butin the postseason becomes this MVP, like
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who else has done this? HowHere's what I'd say to that question is
that it's one thing to pop upand and have heroics that that helps your
team to to prevail and to getwhere they want to go, right,
But it's another thing to have todo it if he doesn't do what he
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does. For crying out loud,Howard, they were without some key components
to their team. There's no heroright now. Kyl Laurie been in and
out of the lineup all year long. They've had a lot of issues.
This team had scoring issues all yearlong. Okay, so Jimmy Buck,
Jimmy Butler recognizes what's going on,recognizing the moment. And I'm gonna be
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honest with There's no way I thoughthe was gonna go to Milwaukee and match
what he did in Miami the gamebefore. I didn't think that was possible.
And I think it goes to whatspos said about Jimmy. Jimmy has
a a unique mindset when it comesto trying to win basketball games. You
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know, he called him playoff Jimmy, so he has a switch. I
don't believe in those switches. Ithink you have to stay even killed and
be ready to do what you haveto do at all times. He seizes
the moment to me better than anyplayer that I've ever seen. I know,
Michael Jordan, you named all theguys. I don't have to go
down that list again, but Ithink to get a nickname like playoff,
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Jimmy Butler shows you how how howdurable and and how how how tough minded
Jimmy Butler is. And I don'tknow if you know his background, but
he was given away as a childby his parents, right, And I
think that has a lot to dowith it, if you would. Yeah,
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you think about a guy that's thatwas raised by a totally different family
than his parents and his other siblingsor what have you. That put that's
a crazy mindset anyway to be ableto do that. So I echo your
sentiments. Man, I just don'tthink that there's anybody. Everybody does it
their way, you know, FrankSinatra, You know I did it my
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way, but he does it hisway. And you know pat Riley just
as well as I do. Right, He's a pat Riley type guy.
Me against the world coach. IfI've heard coach Riley say that one time.
I've heard him said a million times. And that's the mentality to me
that Jimmy Butler has, and Ijust thought, I thought it was tremendous.
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I couldn't sleep after the game becauseof my drillin and how exciting it
was to watch the performance. AndI think he said something to Drew Holiday
last night that I own you orsoything like that. And you're talking about
owning one of the top defenders inthe NBA Jue Holiday it's pretty solid,
but I was blown away. Whatelse has surprised you, Howard? If
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you would about the early start tothe playoffs? Of course the Knicks advancing
to the second round has to beone. Yeah. I mean, look,
you know I always say, likea five upsetting of four isn't really
much of an upset. You're literallynext to each other in the standing,
so there's not a lot separating theCalves and the Knicks. But it is
an upset of sorts. I mean, certainly, like the Calves were a
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fifty win team, they by mostmeasures had the better top end talent,
but I think the Knicks had theoverall better depth clearly, and besides that,
you know, the Knicks Like it'sfunny, you know, because there's
a different level of stars in thisleague. Right, So the Calves had
the established stars, right. JaredAllen has been an All Star globally,
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is a rising star who's still gota lot of growth to do. Clearly,
Darius Garland made the All Star teama year ago for the first time.
Don Mitchell multi multi time All Star. Jalen Brunson owned this series.
Jalen Brunson outplayed Donovan Mitchell and DariusGarland. Jalen Brunson has never been an
All Star, He's never been AllNBA. Right, he's not gonna be
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All NBA when those teams are announcedin the next week or so. Um,
and their best hold on a second, Howard, give me Howard,
hold on one second. You sayhe is not You don't think he has
a chance make to make All NBA. Yes, one of those two,
Jalen Brunson's so you know, I'mone of the voters. This was a
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really tough exercise. It is everyyear. But like the number of guards,
there were like at least twelve guardsin consideration for six spots. Yeah,
um, and even then, likeI moved. I moved Jalen Brown
to forward to get him on myAll NBA so that I could free up
another guards spot. The forward wasquite as deep. Um. But no,
I don't think Jalen Brunsons. JalenBrunson will get all the NBA votes,
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but I don't think he's gonna actuallymake it. I could be wrong.
I could actually absolutely be wrong.And you know, look, if
we were including the first round inour consideration the bat so people know the
ballots are due the day after theregular season ends. It's a regular season
award. So what has happened inthe last week or so of them smoking
the Calves in five games, thatdoesn't count. Um. But uh so
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their best player by resume is Juliusis uh is Julius Randall, and like
he had a terrible series and gothurt again, he might make All NBA
again. But the fact that theKnicks um built of you know, some
young guys, some vets, someguys who are just you know, scrappers
whatever. They they strike me asbeing very much like a nineties type of
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Knicks team, right like you guyslike you had Patrick Ewing in the nineties.
But everybody after Ewing, like therewas no there was no you know,
like the Bulls had Scottie and Michael, the Knicks had Patrick Ewing and
John Start and yeah, but nobodyat the level of a Scottie Pippen right
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right right level of Shack had KobeLebron and Dwayne Wade had each other.
Lebron has Anthony Davis, now whateverKevin Durant had Westbrooke, Kevin Durant had
Steph Like the Knicks of the ninetieswere Patrick Ewing and just a bunch of
really tough, minded, hard working, hard playing dudes. And that's what
this Knicks team is to me.Minus Patrick Ewing. It's like there is
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no one guy who you say,there's your future Hall of Famer. All
of them are built the way thatthe nineties Knicks were. And so that's
I think, what's what's so easy, what's so endearing about this team?
What's so easy to like about them? And I also will say this as
we go into you know, arenewal of the Knicks heat rivalry within the
second round. Yeah, Jalen Brunsonand Jimmy Butler have a lot in common,
right, Jayalen Brunson was a secondrounder. Jimmy Butler was the thirtieth
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overall pick in his draft. Neitherof them had any expectations when they came
in, and Jimmy Butler has nowbeen a multiple time All Star in all
NBA. Jalen Brunts is not thereyet technically, but he's like clearly by
the way he played this season,he's gonna start getting those accolades too.
But both of these guys, they'renot they don't leap out of the gym.
They're not not the fastest, thequickest, the tallest, the longest,
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that anything. Ist. Yeah,they just are really smart basketball players
and really high character guys, greatleaders um and who care and play the
right way and bring their teammates alongwith them and like that. Like that's
right there alone. It's just areally fun I think aspect of this series
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it's coming. I would completely concurwith you on that. So who do
you think deserves the most credit inthe Knicks front office? Because you and
I know you, we know whatit's like when you win in New York
and ninety four we got to theto the finals on that Nick team that
you were just talking about. Whowho would you put on the forefront of
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the turnaround in New York because it'sa huge stunt around, especially if you
ask guys like Stephen A. Smithwho's always yelling about his knicks, his
knicks. Who would you give thecredit too? I mean, it's it's
in this league, fairly or unfairly. You know, we always give credit,
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you know, almost all the creditand all the all the blame to
whoever's at the top of the floatchart there at either as team president or
GM. So yeah, you knowLeon Rose gets gets the credit. Um,
he came in as a first timeyou know, he's he's team president,
so first time team president. Who'she ran the basketball division at CIA.
He was an agent for his entirecareer and a lawyer, not a
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basketball guy by trade. Um.And I never worked in a front office.
I certainly was skeptical when they hiredhim a few years ago. And
I don't think like there's a coupleThere are plenty of moments along the last
couple of years where I thought,yeah, they're doing okay, but there's
nothing really to say, like LeonRose has really put his stamp on this
team. Um, but I shouldso. So back to the quick premise
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here. Who deserves credit obviously Leon, He's he's the head of that front
office, but worldwide West William Wesley, who obviously he brought along with him
from CIA. Uh, Walt Perron, who was a you know, a
veteran front office and talent evaluator whothey hired from Utah, Franks Anon,
who's been working in NBA front officesfor a long time. They've got a
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really good crew. So even ifat the very top, if Leon is
the guy who well he's an agent, not a GM he's he's not a
basketball guy. They've got basketball guysin that front office. And here's where
I think their successes are. Ithink they were hired and Leon was hired
because it was like, oh,Cia, he can get he can get
star players who are CIA guys.That's the way that the Knicks always hired.
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That's the way Jim James Dolan hasalways hired. He always tries to
get somebody who he thinks is goingto get him stars based on relationships or
reputation. It never works that way, and they haven't. Right they missed
out on Kevin Duranton, Kyrie Irving. Maybe they were fortunate to given the
way it went for the net.But what they've done, right, so
they've they haven't succeeded at the toplevel of go get established all Stars or
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all NBA guys. What they havedone is they draft really well low right.
Emmanuel Quickly was a low first roundpick, and Quentin Grimes and Deuced
McBride they've gotten. They've found valuedeeper in the draft, which is really
hard to do. You know,you could question whether or not Obi Toppin
was the right pick with Tyrese Halliburtonstill on the board, but Toppin came
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through in a pretty major way inthis first round series that we just saw.
But the higher picks they haven't hiton. They've they've been consistently hitting
on the lower picks and then they'vebeen opportunistic. They got Jalen Brunson,
and people can complain about tampering ifthey want to. The holding tampers.
You can say that it's because hisfathers on the bench, or because Leon
Roses is godfather, like whatever.It doesn't matter. Family ties ties.
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They were the ones who decided toinvest one hundred million of Jalen Brunson and
it's to their credit. And youknow, so I think the it's and
then then they there's the guys theyinherited to. Okay, so Julius Randall
was the previous administration, but theythey've kept him. Mitchell Robinson was drafted
by the previous administration, but theyextended him. Um. So they've just
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made good, solid moves around theedges. There's not one single move that
you would say, oh, that'sthe home run move. Yeah, but
the things that they have done havecollectively coalesced in a really solid team.
I don't know that the ceiling isthat high for this team. Harp you
may disagree. I'm not sure thata team without a single MVP caliber player
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in a league that's that's always,like everybody know, it's always a Lebron
or a staff or a Kawhi ora Kevin Durant who wins the championship.
So I don't I don't see thatthis team going to the finals yet.
But my gosh, I've I've underestimatedthem, you know, several times already
this year. So who knows,I could I could be a sell them
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short again? You know? Forme, I think everything is about timing.
We talked about the parody Howard ifyou would. In the NBA this
year, I didn't ever see atany point during the seat the regular season
that there was one clear cut favoriteto win it all. Well, I
take that back. I thought Milwaukeehealthy was the best team bar Nune,
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Boston a close second as far asthe Eastern Conference is concerned. And talking
about Boston, do they come outof the East now? Then, since
you say the Knicks hit or missMiami hit or miss Philly. You know
Doc, we know Doc very well. Do you think that the Celtics the
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team to beat so far moving towardsthe second round? To me, the
Celtics are the team to beat.And I thought even the way the season
ended, I felt like though Bostonhad the second best record in the East,
I thought the Celtics to me,were the team that had the best
case to it to win it allwhen the when the regular season ended,
Um, you know, listen,it's been an alarming first round for the
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Celtics. They are they're they're doingthat thing that we see teams do sometimes,
great teams do where you know you'vegot the better talent, the better
depth, the better everything, andyou're up in a series and you start
letting a team creep back in becauseyou just don't know how to throw the
knockout punch. You get a littlecomplacent, you get you lose focus a
little bit. The Celtics, youknow, they blow leads, they don't
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finish games. M I still thinkthey're gonna put away the Hawks. I
know, think that should happen afew hours after we record this M and
and then they're going into a secondround series against a Sixer team that you
know, the Sixers are are kindof funky, kind of hard to figure
out. And Joel Embiad's got aknee issue now that leaves him, as
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far as I last I heard,leaves him questionable for to start that series.
If if Mbiad is hurt or limited, I think, you know,
I don't think the Sixers are winningthat series. So I think the Celtics
are in the conference finals against eitherthe Knicks or Heat, and I think
they've got superior talents no matter whichopponent it is. So to me,
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I said this the other day,the Heat knocking the Bucks out in the
first round may have paved the wayfor the Celtics to go to the finals,
because I don't think the Bucks werethe team that had the best chance
to beat the Celtics. I don'tthink the Knicks of the Heat have have
that ability. I'm going to shiftto the West and briefly talk about what's
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going on there. Obviously, Denverwon the most games during the regular season.
I want to talk about the Lakersand the Memphis series more Lebron James
and his legacy. He wins achampionship this year means, what does it
mean? He's the goat. There'salways the conversation, if you would how
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it out, who's the best playerto ever play the game? I say
it's in any how do you seethings playing out with Lebron trying to put
away the Memphis Grizzlies. I likethat you pick Wilt because it's always you
know, we're such prisoners to themoment, in the moment, and people
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don't always Jordan versus Lebron. Yeah, well, it's always Jordan Lebron.
And then at some point somebody who'sa little of the me will say,
you guys have this wrong. It'sactually Kareem And so sometimes we get oh,
okay, we get Kareem in theargument, but it very rarely goes
back far enough for people to bringin Wilt or Bill Russell. Um,
I'm an agnostic on the goat thing, Like I just to me, the
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game has evolved so much that tryingto compare players across the eras it's just
an impossible task. I don't ifI don't know that there's an objective answer
to the goat question, and I'mnot sure I care. I don't mind
other people debating it till the endof time, and they will. Um,
I don't have a dog in thatfight. And if Lebron wins another
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championship, it would be incredible todo that in year twenty at age thirty
eight. I think the odds arestacked against him, but it'd being incredible.
And and I think I think,I think the Lakers can make a
run, like the West is kindof wonky right now. They've got to
put away the Grizzlies first. Andyou know, uh, Lebron did not
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have a great game last night inGame five, and he was the first
to say I played like crap basically. They you know, look, Lebron
and Anthony Davis are carrying a prettybig load. And for Lebron at this
stage of his career to be carryingthat much. It's it's tough even in
a playoff series where the games arespread out a little bit more. You're
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they're bouncing between LA and Memphis,Tennessee. As those are some long flights,
and the Grizzlies are younger with freshlegs. I know, you know,
obviously John Morants banged up with therisk thing, but he's been fantastic
regardless, Like the Lakers are playingwith fire if they lose Game six at
home, because winning a Game sevenwith that turnaround, going all the way
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back to Memphis again would would spelltrouble for them. I picked the Lakers
in six in this series before itstarted. It looks like that's the way
this is gonna play out. Ithink they're gonna close it out at home
in LA, but they're gonna needsomething like like they had in I think
it was a Game one when RuyHotchimura had the breakout game. Like one
of those guys a Hatchi Mura ora DeAngelo Russell Austin Leaves, one of
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those guys needs needs a breakout game. Because it's too much to ask Lebron
to be putting up a triple doubleevery night, or to go score thirty
five forty. He can and hemight, but like the guy's got a
lot of miles on him and it'sbeen a tough season for him injury wise
too. You know, if healthy, I thought the Clippers would really give
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the Sons fits. I really did, if they had Paul George excuse me,
and Kawhi Leonard. Which brings meto this, Howard. Obviously,
injuries are a part of sports.Any sport, baseball, basketball, football,
you name it. People get hurt. It's just that simple. And
Kawhi Leonard has fallen so many times. I mean, he has had a
(29:21):
hard time staying healthy to help histeam advanced year after year after year.
In fact, Stephen A. Smithquote, it was quoted as saying,
and I quote that they should payKawhi Leonard to go away. What's your
take on that? And if youwould, how would talk about load management
(29:42):
because that's something that I am justbaffled about, to be completely honest with
you. Yeah, So there's athere's a lot of stuff there, harp
um. Let me start with obviously, Kawhi Leonard's not going to be told
to go away. No, No, I agree, Yeah, Yeah,
(30:02):
the clip the Clippers The Clippers dohave a lot to think about right now.
Kawhi letter to Paul George. You'regoing into the last year of their
contracts. They're eligible for massive extensions. They both have really tough injury histories,
including this season. Obviously they theClippers, you know, broadly speaking,
again, it's been a failure sincethey got Paul George and Kawhi Leonard
(30:26):
four years ago. They have notgotten the payoff that you wanted, which
is to at least make the finalsa couple of times and win a championship.
And they've they've fallen far short,mostly because one or both of them
is always hurt. So it's tough. And they're going into a new building.
They finally are going to have theirown arena in a year, and
you want, you know, thegeneral philosophy as you want star power when
(30:49):
you're going into a new building sothat you can sell tickets. And it's
a lot for them to consider,but I don't think this is a time
to go breaking them up. Thoseguys are hard to come by, and
granted it's frustrating as hell, I'msure for that um that franchise and their
fan base, but at at fullstrength, there. It's not too many
(31:11):
duos in the NBA who are betterthan Paul George and Kawhi Leonard together.
Um, I don't. I don'tknow what the answer there is other than
you know, you keep going andyou hope for the best. You hope
for better injury luck this time interms of the load management part, I
mean, Kawhi didn't miss time likemost of the time Kawhi missed this season.
(31:33):
I don't think it was about loadmanagement. It was he was injured
again. Um you. He hasbecome the poster boy for load management because
of his time in Toronto, specificallythe year that he spent there, where
like they kind of created I thinkthat that phrase for him, the way
that they were trying to nurse himthrough the season after he'd had the strange
leg injury that m marred his finalyear with San Antonio and that caused the
(31:59):
rift between him and Antonio. Yes, and they nursed him through the season
in Toronto. He was fresh forthe playoffs, he led them to a
championship and from there it's like that'swhere this all kind of like gets set
in stone. I think in theway that we all perceive load management and
maybe other teams do too, whichis oh okay. If you can take
(32:19):
your veteran who whether they have aninjury history, whether they are recovering from
a surgery that requires them to youknow, you know, take more time
off in the regular season, whateverit may be. Kawhi Leonard is now
the example of that. They nursethem through the regular season. He played
sixty plus games. They want achampionship, that's the way to do it.
And it's fed into this modern approachto the NBA season in which everybody
(32:45):
kind of values it. Right,we're talking about shortening the season. It'll
never happen because of the money,but we talk about shortening the season because
it feels like the regular season justdoesn't matter as much anymore. And more
and more teams are for in variousdifferent ways. It's not all load management,
but in various different ways are tryingto manage the toll that players take
(33:06):
their return from injury, trying toalleviate back to backs, those kinds of
things, and it's all understandable.Players are making, you know, tens
of millions of dollars and in fact, over the course of a single contract,
sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars.Now it's a massive investment, so
it's not just for the player,it's for you as the franchise. This
is you know, you want toprotect your investment, you want to get
(33:30):
the most pots three the buck outof your investment, and you know it's
it's to everyone's benefit to ensure theirlongevity and to keep them fresh for the
postseason if you're expecting to make adeep run. I don't know what the
answer to that is, harp likelike I would question, not question.
It would be helpful if we thepublic knew more about the science behind this.
(33:51):
Right If the medical staffs who aredictating a player's regimen are going to
say it's because we are trying toprevent injury, or we're trying to nurse
them back from this one injury andtrying to make sure that it doesn't they're
not favoring the other leg or thisor that. It would be helpful if
we the public had more information anddata from the experts so that we can
(34:13):
understand why this is the right way, because in the meantime, all we
see is, well, these guysaren't playing. They're not playing as much
as their predecessors did In other erasthey're not playing and I bought this ticket
for hundreds of dollars and now they'renot there. It's the frustration from the
fans is palpable, and it's justifiable. And while I'm not one to sit
(34:35):
here and like condemned load management,all I'm saying is if the league is
going to make this the new normal, they owe it to their fan base,
to the public to do a betterjob of explaining why this makes sense,
why this is justified, so peoplearen't left in the dark. You
(34:55):
know, it's not like tickets orten dollars like they used to be when
I had here, So that thatmakes a lot of sense. Where you're
going give the viewers an idea ofwhat the what the city is like when
the Knicks are playing in the playoffs, when they're on top of their game.
(35:15):
You know, we talked a littlebit off the air about that,
how it just seems a little differentwhen New York is involved this time of
the year. Well, it's it'sit's interesting like I got here in two
thousand and four and the Knicks werepretty bad and then got progressively worse,
and then they occasionally have a fewsigns of life and then and then get
(35:36):
bad again. So I've I hadonly covered like a couple of playoff games
here really because they'd only this Thisplayoff series victory over Cleveland was only the
second time they've won a playoff series, and I think twenty two years and
the last one was in twenty thirteen. That was the year they won fifty
four games. They get to thesecond round and lose to the Pacers.
(36:00):
I had not been into a playoffgame at the Garden in ten years now.
They were in the playoffs a coupleof years ago against Atlanta, but
we were still coming out of COVID. There were still restrictions. I didn't
go to those games. The buildingstill wasn't full yet. So I went
to Game three of Calves Knicks atthe Garden and holy crap, harp.
Like you know from your own experienceand your playing career, that place was
(36:22):
bonkers and no piped in noise,no amplified bs like this was just natural
fan excitement and an intensity. Andthis is before pregame intros had even started.
My ear drums were vibrating just fromthe noise of the building. And
(36:43):
then as soon as the game didstart, the Calv's first possession, first
possession, there's an entire arena chantingnineteen twenty thousand people chanting defense with no
prompt from the PA system or fromanybody else. They just started doing it
and it was loud as hell.And by the way, the Calves were
rattled because of it. Darius GarlandEvan mobile. These guys are in their
(37:04):
first ever playoff series. They didn'tknow what hit him. Yeah, they
didn't know what hit him. Andall right, look, I'll say real
quick. So like covering those Lakerschampionship teams in the shot Kobe years,
Staples Center, while kind of Cavernius, could certainly get loud and had a
great home court vibe when they wereat their best. UM Portland at the
Rose Garden back in the day wasintense, uh Key Arena and Seattle was
(37:30):
phenomenal. Delta Center in Utah wasreally loud. Like my early years covering
the Lakers, those are the placesI remembered being the loudest, the most
intense. UM Boston and all thetimes, like I've covered a few finals
there now, they're always really great. But I had not really been able
to see the Garden at full justactivation I guess until this past week and
(37:54):
man, um, it's it's wildand what it's the heat coming to town
now, holy man, Like Idon't know what's gonna happen, Like the
roof, I'm gonna be in NewYork doing that series. I can't give
you a date how but I wouldn'tmiss at least one game in that atmosphere
for nothing in the world. Ihave to get to New York. I've
(38:16):
already got some some some some callsin to try to get myself some tickets,
and I'm gonna come and and andand be a part of all of
that that excitement. It sounded electricin the building in Games three. You
know what I want to do.I want to ask you, where do
you think the state of the NBAis right now? Obviously, excuse me,
(38:39):
a lot of young players. Youknow, you got Luca, you
got Morant, you got Jason Tatum, just a lot of young talent.
Do you think that the league isin a good place right now? I
think the league is in a goodplace. I think the depth of talent
is really incredible, in part becausewe have guys who are the older generation
(39:00):
of stars who because of maybe whetherit's load management or just modern player care,
better conditioning, year round, attentionto their bodies, smarter about nutrition,
better training, having personal trainers,whatever it is. You know,
Lebron is still a star at avery late stage of his career. You
(39:22):
know, Chris paul Is, youknow, we've seen some slippage, but
he's still really effective. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, like guys are getting
into there at a time when inthe past, you go into your mid
thirties, that's when guys start tofall off a cliff. So we that's
not happening anymore. So now thestars are extending their careers. And meanwhile
that means a longer overlap with theyounger generation, right um, And so
(39:45):
John Rant and Jason Tatum and theseguys are coming up Anthony Edwards, while
the you know a generation or twothat that that we were ahead of them
are still operating at a high level. So the depth of talent, high
leve talent is really great right now. Um, What would concern me,
I suppose if I were the leagueoffice, is you know, there's great
(40:09):
talent, harp, but is anybodyas compelling as Lebron James is anybody as
compelling as Steph Curry. If thosetwo retired tomorrow, who's who's the must
see? And I and I thinklike John Morant for just basketball reasons and
and and um excitement, the wayhe plays the game. He's an exciting
(40:30):
player. Okay, he's he's mustsee. And and yeah, maybe whether
Janis or Luca like, there's there'sgreat talent and who I want to watch
play basketball. Yeah, but asa as as as a personality, there's
nobody like like Lebron is so polarizingand Steph is just so unique and joyful
in the way he plays the game. The charisma, it's this undefinable thing,
(40:54):
right, Like Michael wasn't like Michael. Whether he's the goat or not,
Um, whether he won six championshipsor not, Michael had a magnetism
about him that was bigger than justwhether or not he could uh win six
titles or be all NBA every yearor hang fifty on you or whatever.
There's a there was another element abouthim, and it's why he was the
(41:16):
consummate pitchman too in terms of hiscommercial endorsements. Um, when you look
at some of the guys now likeJannis isn't a bunch of a bunch of
commercials, and Jannison and Beat aretogether in those the cell phone commercials.
But like Luca doesn't do anything,Lucas like not a presence beyond Dallas.
(41:37):
On that note, and same withYoki's, same with yokis Like these guys
are not the same kind of presencecommercially, which I think means it's harder
for the NBA to to sell themas the new face of the league whence
Lebron and Steph are gone. Howwhat if you if you could get in
Luca's ear? We we talked aboutDontage, were talking about personalities bigger than
(41:58):
life, personalities in some the guysthat we're talking about. What does Luca
need to do in your opinion?Because the guy average thirty three points,
eight rebounds, eight assists this pastseason, but he still doesn't seem to
to grasp what it takes to leada team. Where what direction would you
(42:21):
point him in if you had theopportunity too? Wow, that's a tough
one. I mean, I'm youknow, I'm not not a player,
not a coach, and not anage I feel unqualified on some level.
So that that caveat out of theway. UM. So there's different kinds
(42:43):
of leadership in this league. Ithink you would you would agree with this,
um, Right, Like there's theguys who lead by example, there's
the guys who lead by their theirtheir presence, their voice. UM.
And and you could do that indifferent ways too, right, Like Steph
doesn't lead the same way that KobeBryant led, or that Michael Jordan led.
Tim Duncan led differently. Right,Luca is just such an incredible player
(43:10):
and incredible talent. I think he'sgonna uplift guys around him just by the
gravity of his game and the abilityto just do so much with the ball
in his hands. What would concernme about Luca overall is people have made
the comparison a lot to James Harden. I always found James Harden in his
Houston days to be frustrating in thesense that he was so ball dominant.
(43:35):
Yeah he could win a lot ofgames. Yeah he could score a lot,
assist a lot everything else. ButI had to feel like watching him,
that must not be a lot offun to be his teammate. The
winning is fun, but standing aroundwatching him, you know, dribble the
air out of the ball would notbe Luca doesn't maybe do it quite to
the level of James Harden, buthis usage rate is pretty far up there.
(43:57):
And I think that was the pointof the exercise in going and getting
Kay Irving, was to have somebodyelse who could share the burden, share
the load and you know, hopefullynot burn out Luca, but also make
sure that the ball is going somewhereelse occasionally so that defenses can't just key
in on one guy. But nowyou've got two guys who might dominate the
ball, and I'm not sure ifI want to be one of the other
(44:17):
three guys. And I'm not sayingit makes me selfish. I'm saying that
if, if, if that isthe way that you know how to win,
and that's what comes naturally to you, and your coach has empowered you
to do it this way, whetheryou're Russell Westbrook or James Harden or Janis
or Luca, then I get it. So I'm not I'm not making the
(44:38):
selfish argument at all. What Iam saying is I don't know, like
in my view, and I amthe outsider in this, but having covered
those Phil Jackson Laker teams. Havingcovered Mike D'Antoni for a while, Mike
and Phil had two very very differentphilosophies about how to coach in the NBA
and what kind of offense to run. But the through line the thing that
(45:00):
I think I learned from both ofthem and that I really respected and that
I agree with it's become part ofmy own basketball values is I think the
ball's got to move. I thinkthat guys need to feel involved. I
think that if you're at some pointin the fourth quarter of a tight game
and you're getting double teamed and youfinally have to kick it out to you
know, the wing, and youhaven't passed to that guy in like three
(45:21):
hours, he might not be inrhythm and he might not be at his
sharpest. I just think that esthetically, it's more fun to watch basketball for
a team that moves the ball theway to say the Warriors do or the
Spurs when they've been at their bestMike d'antoni's old sons teams, and I
also think that that's what engenders abetter feeling of camaraderie with your team,
(45:45):
right, So, um, youknow, far be it for me to
tell Luca how to play, orJason Kidd how to coach, but I
gotta think that, or or NicoHarrison how to sign players, because like
I think they need to overhaul theroster frankly. But but you have it
on point though, Yeah, whereLuca has teammates he trusts and will pass
(46:07):
to and in an offense that's alittle bit more dynamic, right, Jason
Kidd always move the ball. Ican't imagine Jason Kidd really wants Luca to
just dribble the air out of it. So um to me, you need
a team with a little bit moredynamism and more playmaking, more everything.
I mean, they've got a thousandneeds. I think right now you can
speak to that better than I could. You've seen them more than I have.
(46:29):
Yeah, I've taken up a lotof your time, and I appreciate
your time. But really quick andI'll get you out of here. Who
comes out of the East I thinkyou said Boston earlier. Who comes out
of the West? Yeahs, asfar as you're concerned, who will be
in the NBA Finals this year?Yeah, I mean I'll be surprised if
it's not Boston out of the East. But man in a year like this,
(46:50):
nothing should surprise me anymore. Isuppose Um and the Heat and the
Knicks and even the Sixers I thinkwould be capable. But I think it's
the Celtics in the West. It'sjust weird kind of I start thinking about
it as not who's the most talentedteam, but who do I trust the
most? Like the Nuggets are talentedand had the best record in the West,
I'm not sure I trust them becauseof you know, their their inability
(47:13):
or inconsistency playing defense at a highlevel. Yu Jamal Murray's emergence again has
has made them, I think,more viable, because you know, Jokis
needs a second star to to takesome of the playmaking and scoring duties.
The Suns have the best talent onpaper, but they just beat a Clipper
team that was totally beat up inthe first round. Yeah, and we
(47:36):
barely saw to rent with that teamin the regular season, so I'm not
I'm still not sure what to makeof the Sun yet, and their bench
is terrible. The Warriors have beenwonky all season, but looks like they're
gonna win their first round series,and I still like they're the defending champs
and I still stubbornly believe in theWarriors. So and then there's the Lakers.
I'm not sure if the Lakers haveenough to get through, But like
(47:59):
all any of these teams, harpcould come out and I wouldn't necessarily be
entirely shocked. I had to pickone, I'm going with the Warriors right
now, going with the Warriors.I'm going with the Warriors. I trust
their championship metal, basically the musclememory, the time they've had together,
knowing each other as well as theydo. And the thing is like Steph
(48:21):
has had no real erosion since ayear ago when they won the title.
Clay is actually better right now thanhe was a year ago. Draymond is
still playing at an incredibly high level. Yes, Pool's got that much more
experience under his belt, Wiggins hasthat much more experience under his belt.
Peyton Looney like that group just wona title last June. Far be it
for me to think that they can'tdo it again. And yeah, I
know they've had a weird season,but I still think they got a shot.
(48:45):
You know what, I'm right therewith you. I'm gonna go repeat
from last year the Warriors in Bostonbut I only the thing for me is
unless something strange happens. I thinkBoston is a lot more deeper as a
team than the Warriors, and theCeltics find a way to be champions once
again. How you're the best man. I really appreciate your time. This
(49:08):
has been fun. Please come backagain and hang out with me on Harp's
Court. So thank you Harp.It was my pleasure. Man was great
talking to you. Was always happyto come back anytime. Absolutely all of
us at the DUB Network would liketo thank the crew at Herman Marshall Whiskey
(49:31):
for sponsoring another episode of Harp's Court. Herman Marshall small Batch whiskey is handcrafted
and award winning and whether it beThere Texas, Bourbon Texas, Rye Texas
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All of us at the DUB Networkwould like to thank the crew at Herman
Marshall Whiskey for sponsoring another episode ofHarp's Court. Herman Marshall small Batch Whiskey
is handcrafted and award winning and whetherit be their Texas Bourbon Texas Rye Texas
Single Malt or They're blended Bourbon whiskey, all are built from the grain up,
(00:22):
just like good whiskey should be.And make sure you check out their
amazing tasting room in Wiley, Texasif you get a chance. I promise
you you won't be disappointed. It'sa great place to pop on in and
enjoy one of their specialty drinks ortwo, or for hosting special occasions like
birthday parties, mixers, weddings orreceptions. Thank you so much, Herman
(00:46):
Marshall. Hello, and welcome toanother episode of Harp's Court. I'm your
host, Derek Harper. I amhonored to have one of my favorite guys,
and Howard Beck. Howard is oneof the top journalists and in sports
(01:06):
that there is. And welcome tothe show. Howard. How are you,
Man Harp, I'm doing great,Man, appreciate you. Thank you
for the very kind introduction. Greatto see you, and as we were
just discussing offline, it's a phenomenalthat we get to reverse roles here after
all these years because I did coveragefor a brief time. Let me tell
you, though, I appreciate thatI would have never thought that this would
(01:32):
come to fruition, but the factthat it has. And by the way,
Howard has Howard Beck has worked asan NBA writer both in New York
and in Los Angeles, and I'veplayed in New York and Los Angeles,
so we have that in common.What I wanted while we're on that,
what what? What do you thinkthe difference is as a writer from a
(01:55):
writer's perspective in writing for the NBAin New York a post to Los Angeles.
You know, it's funny, harplike, the job is the job
wherever we are, right. ButI'd be lying if I said it doesn't
have a different vibe or a differentfeeling in different markets. Right. So
(02:16):
I had seven years covering the Lakersin LA, including the lockout year when
you were with the Lakers. I'vebeen in New York for nineteen years,
nine of which I was covering theKnicks on a regular basis for the New
York Times, and they're both competitivemarkets. In both places, you have
a ton of media, a tonof interest, but it is more laid
(02:38):
back in LA. Both among thefans and the media. It is more
intense and sometimes edgy, I guessamong both bands of media in New York,
and it is. It was definitelyan adjustment when I got here in
two thousand and four, after sevenyears of covering the Lakers in LA,
to to kind of try to justadapt, to figure out the New York
(02:59):
vibe. Yeah, it's different.The vibe at games is different, The
vibe in the press room is isdifferent. It is just more intense.
The traffic is different, a littlebit louder the track. You know what,
though, I'll say this like peoplewill will say, like whether you're
in New York, La, Boston, all these places with traffic. All
I know is this. When Ilived in La, if I went to
(03:22):
if I left her, I livedin Hermosa Beach south of Lax, it
might take me fifty minutes to getthe Staples Center downtown. It might take
two hours. The one thing Ilove about New York. I love many
things about New York, but I'lltell you this, most days, I'll
hop on that subway. It's thirtyfive minutes to the Garden, or it's
fifteen minutes to Barclay Center where theNets play, and it's the same every
(03:43):
single time. So I'll take havingmass transit over the LA highways any day.
And I say that as a Californianative who grew up, you know,
and learned to drive on all thosehighways, right Like, I'll take
the subway every day. I hearyou on that, and I can relate
actually to what you're talking about unlessyou've been on a rock man. Everybody
(04:05):
knows that the NBA playoffs are goinggoing on right now, and I felt,
I don't know how you feel aboutthis out, but I felt like
all year that there's been so muchthere's so much parody in the NBA until
it was very difficult to really pinpointwho was the best team in the East,
who was the best team in theWest. Has anything about the playoffs,
(04:27):
And I'm sure it has surprised youthus far moving towards the second round
of the playoffs. Yeah, Imean, look, you're right, this
is a season like no other thatI can remember in my twenty six years
of covering it, and I'm surethat you've you know, the same observation
for you, as a former playerand broadcaster who has been following following this
(04:47):
and been in it even longer thanI have. There's never been a season
like this during my time, right, so almost nothing would surprise me,
except except we're talking on Thursday afternoon, the day after the Miami Heat,
the Heat, who were a playin team, a play in team that
became the eighth seed and knocked outthe top seed of Milwaukee Buck Like.
(05:09):
So yeah, even in a yearof parody, that one was a shocker
to me. Harp. I amstill in shock a little bit. I'm
sure the Bucks are in shock.We don't get eight one upsets very often
in this league. And it's ofall the teams, of all the number
ones that could have gone down inthe last ten twenty years, this isn't
(05:30):
what I would have expected. TheBucks obviously a championship team just two years
ago. Right. Joanna's a twotime MVP who's a finalist for MVP again
this year. We'll he'll he'll probablyfinish third. Ye this is a stunner
and and I just cannot even imaginewhat the Bucks organization is thinking today as
they are trying to sift through thewreckage and figure out how to get this
(05:54):
thing back on track. You knowwhat, which brings me to this after
the game, And that's the worsttime I think as a reporter to ask
a player tough questions, right,And I saw where you retweeted the situation
where Janna said, and I forgetwho it was that asked him the question
as to whether or not it wasa disappointed named of a season. What's
(06:16):
your take on it? Do youfeel? I feel like it is a
disappointment. If you're expected to comeout of the East and you don't make
you fall short of that, that'sa disappointment. I don't care how you
how you look at it. Yeah, I think what got people. So
the question was by from Eric Name, really great reporter for the athletic based
(06:36):
in Milwaukee. And if anybody knowsanything about Eric Name, and I want
to mention this because obviously he's he'staken a few hits today. Of course,
the way he asked the question wasabout was not about disappointment but failure.
He said, Jannis, do youconsider the season a failure? And
he asked the same quote, thesame question of coach Mike Holzer. To
(07:00):
me, it's a it's the fairand right question, because yes, they're
the number one seed, they werethe favorites to win the championship. They
can't just lose early. They lostas early as can be. They lost
in the first round, two andeighth seed, and in five games.
They couldn't even stretch this thing tosix or seven games. And it's fair
when you know that the next dayis going to be all the fans and
(07:23):
media are going to be saying,and other players we're gonna be saying it's
a failure. It's fairer than askJannis. Listen, is it a failure
to you? What I loved aboutJanie's response was that he said, no,
I don't accept that this is alljust These are all just steps,
This is just the journey. Basically, I thought he handled it well and
I it was a really thoughtful andconstructive response to a difficult question. But
(07:47):
it's also the right question. AndI want to hear that response because what
Jannis is telling us is you mayall look at this as a failure.
And look, I'm gonna say thisagain as I've said multiple times today object
actively speaking, it's a failure.If you're the number one seed and you're
a favorite to win the champion andyou lose in the first round to an
eighth seed in five games, it'sa failure. Of course it is.
(08:09):
It's also fine and fair for youas the player to tell me, listen,
it's not a failure in my mindbecause I view things in a broader,
more long range manner, and thisis another step on our journey and
maybe this is what we need todo or to reckon with in order for
us to build up better again.Like, that's fine. I'm fine with
(08:30):
Yanna saying that, But the questionitself was absolutely fair. It's not a
gotcha question, and it's a chanceto you're extending an opportunity to the people
that you're covering to put it inperspective. Just because we, as the
media and fans might consider it afailure doesn't mean the Bucks necessarily will.
Now, that's it. Janna says, no, not a failure. Fine.
I totally respect that, and Iloved his response. I guarantee you
(08:54):
the GM is going to consider ita failure, and the owners who employ
the GM and the coach and allthose players are going to consider a failure.
I can forgive pcent of Bucks fansare considering it a failure because because
of the expectation to be fair inappropriate. Question too, Yeah, so you
you you said putting things in perspective. Could you can you Howard put in
(09:18):
perspective what Jimmy Butler did for theMiami Heat. I don't think you know,
you can go back and and lookat some of the all time great
performances. I was a huge fanback then. I was in the league.
Michael Jordan against Boston. I mean, there's just been so many great
heroics in the playoffs. Have youseen a better performance for two or three
(09:41):
games than what we saw Jimmy Butlerput on against the Milwaukee Bucks. Well,
I mean, listen, Um,I covered Shack and Kobe for those
seven years. You got to playalongside those guys, so we've seen that.
You know, Shaq and Kobe havesome incredible performances. I've covered you
know, the Warriors um in theirfinals runs. I've covered Lebron James in
a bunch of his finals, mostof his finals. So yeah, I
(10:05):
mean you and I have both witnessedsome incredible postseason performances, and I would
say that Jimmy Butler's might be rightup there. But what strikes me about
it, and I'm gonna turn thisback to you, Harp, Yeah,
Jimmy does not in the regular seasonand for the entirety of his career,
he does not profile as this guy. I'm not saying that, I'm not
diminishing it any him by any stretchingfacts. This is a compliment when we
(10:28):
talk about great postseason performances, andyou and I could list off Michael Lebron,
Kobe Chef, Tim Duncan, anynumber of players, Kevin Durant,
Kawhi, Leonarde, the list goeson and MVPs. Yeah, but these
are all perennial MVP candidates, perennialall NBA guys, guys who chart out
(10:48):
as future Hall of famers. JimmyButler does not have the profile of any
of them. So the question Ihave for you is, because your memory
may be better than mine on thisand goes back a little further, Yeah,
is there anybody that you can recallwho could turn it up this many
levels in the postseason who is nota superstar in the regular season? Is
just a really great player, butin the postseason becomes this MVP, like
(11:11):
who else has done this? HowHere's what I'd say to that question is
that it's one thing to pop upand and have heroics that that helps your
team to to prevail and to getwhere they want to go, right,
But it's another thing to have todo it if he doesn't do what he
(11:33):
does. For crying out loud,Howard, they were without some key components
to their team. There's no heroright now. Kyl Laurie been in and
out of the lineup all year long. They've had a lot of issues.
This team had scoring issues all yearlong. Okay, so Jimmy Buck,
Jimmy Butler recognizes what's going on,recognizing the moment. And I'm gonna be
(11:58):
honest with There's no way I thoughthe was gonna go to Milwaukee and match
what he did in Miami the gamebefore. I didn't think that was possible.
And I think it goes to whatspos said about Jimmy. Jimmy has
a a unique mindset when it comesto trying to win basketball games. You
(12:18):
know, he called him playoff Jimmy, so he has a switch. I
don't believe in those switches. Ithink you have to stay even killed and
be ready to do what you haveto do at all times. He seizes
the moment to me better than anyplayer that I've ever seen. I know,
Michael Jordan, you named all theguys. I don't have to go
down that list again, but Ithink to get a nickname like playoff,
(12:41):
Jimmy Butler shows you how how howdurable and and how how how tough minded
Jimmy Butler is. And I don'tknow if you know his background, but
he was given away as a childby his parents, right, And I
think that has a lot to dowith it, if you would. Yeah,
(13:03):
you think about a guy that's thatwas raised by a totally different family
than his parents and his other siblingsor what have you. That put that's
a crazy mindset anyway to be ableto do that. So I echo your
sentiments. Man, I just don'tthink that there's anybody. Everybody does it
their way, you know, FrankSinatra, You know I did it my
(13:24):
way, but he does it hisway. And you know pat Riley just
as well as I do. Right, He's a pat Riley type guy.
Me against the world coach. IfI've heard coach Riley say that one time.
I've heard him said a million times. And that's the mentality to me
that Jimmy Butler has, and Ijust thought, I thought it was tremendous.
(13:48):
I couldn't sleep after the game becauseof my drillin and how exciting it
was to watch the performance. AndI think he said something to Drew Holiday
last night that I own you orsoything like that. And you're talking about
owning one of the top defenders inthe NBA Jue Holiday it's pretty solid,
but I was blown away. Whatelse has surprised you, Howard? If
(14:09):
you would about the early start tothe playoffs? Of course the Knicks advancing
to the second round has to beone. Yeah. I mean, look,
you know I always say, likea five upsetting of four isn't really
much of an upset. You're literallynext to each other in the standing,
so there's not a lot separating theCalves and the Knicks. But it is
an upset of sorts. I mean, certainly, like the Calves were a
(14:30):
fifty win team, they by mostmeasures had the better top end talent,
but I think the Knicks had theoverall better depth clearly, and besides that,
you know, the Knicks Like it'sfunny, you know, because there's
a different level of stars in thisleague. Right, So the Calves had
the established stars, right. JaredAllen has been an All Star globally,
(14:52):
is a rising star who's still gota lot of growth to do. Clearly,
Darius Garland made the All Star teama year ago for the first time.
Don Mitchell multi multi time All Star. Jalen Brunson owned this series.
Jalen Brunson outplayed Donovan Mitchell and DariusGarland. Jalen Brunson has never been an
All Star, He's never been AllNBA. Right, he's not gonna be
(15:13):
All NBA when those teams are announcedin the next week or so. Um,
and their best hold on a second, Howard, give me Howard,
hold on one second. You sayhe is not You don't think he has
a chance make to make All NBA. Yes, one of those two,
Jalen Brunson's so you know, I'mone of the voters. This was a
(15:33):
really tough exercise. It is everyyear. But like the number of guards,
there were like at least twelve guardsin consideration for six spots. Yeah,
um, and even then, likeI moved. I moved Jalen Brown
to forward to get him on myAll NBA so that I could free up
another guards spot. The forward wasquite as deep. Um. But no,
I don't think Jalen Brunsons. JalenBrunson will get all the NBA votes,
(15:54):
but I don't think he's gonna actuallymake it. I could be wrong.
I could actually absolutely be wrong.And you know, look, if
we were including the first round inour consideration the bat so people know the
ballots are due the day after theregular season ends. It's a regular season
award. So what has happened inthe last week or so of them smoking
the Calves in five games, thatdoesn't count. Um. But uh so
(16:18):
their best player by resume is Juliusis uh is Julius Randall, and like
he had a terrible series and gothurt again, he might make All NBA
again. But the fact that theKnicks um built of you know, some
young guys, some vets, someguys who are just you know, scrappers
whatever. They they strike me asbeing very much like a nineties type of
(16:42):
Knicks team, right like you guyslike you had Patrick Ewing in the nineties.
But everybody after Ewing, like therewas no there was no you know,
like the Bulls had Scottie and Michael, the Knicks had Patrick Ewing and
John Start and yeah, but nobodyat the level of a Scottie Pippen right
(17:03):
right right level of Shack had KobeLebron and Dwayne Wade had each other.
Lebron has Anthony Davis, now whateverKevin Durant had Westbrooke, Kevin Durant had
Steph Like the Knicks of the ninetieswere Patrick Ewing and just a bunch of
really tough, minded, hard working, hard playing dudes. And that's what
this Knicks team is to me.Minus Patrick Ewing. It's like there is
(17:25):
no one guy who you say,there's your future Hall of Famer. All
of them are built the way thatthe nineties Knicks were. And so that's
I think, what's what's so easy, what's so endearing about this team?
What's so easy to like about them? And I also will say this as
we go into you know, arenewal of the Knicks heat rivalry within the
second round. Yeah, Jalen Brunsonand Jimmy Butler have a lot in common,
right, Jayalen Brunson was a secondrounder. Jimmy Butler was the thirtieth
(17:49):
overall pick in his draft. Neitherof them had any expectations when they came
in, and Jimmy Butler has nowbeen a multiple time All Star in all
NBA. Jalen Brunts is not thereyet technically, but he's like clearly by
the way he played this season,he's gonna start getting those accolades too.
But both of these guys, they'renot they don't leap out of the gym.
They're not not the fastest, thequickest, the tallest, the longest,
(18:11):
that anything. Ist. Yeah,they just are really smart basketball players
and really high character guys, greatleaders um and who care and play the
right way and bring their teammates alongwith them and like that. Like that's
right there alone. It's just areally fun I think aspect of this series
(18:33):
it's coming. I would completely concurwith you on that. So who do
you think deserves the most credit inthe Knicks front office? Because you and
I know you, we know whatit's like when you win in New York
and ninety four we got to theto the finals on that Nick team that
you were just talking about. Whowho would you put on the forefront of
(18:57):
the turnaround in New York because it'sa huge stunt around, especially if you
ask guys like Stephen A. Smithwho's always yelling about his knicks, his
knicks. Who would you give thecredit too? I mean, it's it's
in this league, fairly or unfairly. You know, we always give credit,
(19:18):
you know, almost all the creditand all the all the blame to
whoever's at the top of the floatchart there at either as team president or
GM. So yeah, you knowLeon Rose gets gets the credit. Um,
he came in as a first timeyou know, he's he's team president,
so first time team president. Who'she ran the basketball division at CIA.
He was an agent for his entirecareer and a lawyer, not a
(19:38):
basketball guy by trade. Um.And I never worked in a front office.
I certainly was skeptical when they hiredhim a few years ago. And
I don't think like there's a coupleThere are plenty of moments along the last
couple of years where I thought,yeah, they're doing okay, but there's
nothing really to say, like LeonRose has really put his stamp on this
team. Um, but I shouldso. So back to the quick premise
(20:00):
here. Who deserves credit obviously Leon, He's he's the head of that front
office, but worldwide West William Wesley, who obviously he brought along with him
from CIA. Uh, Walt Perron, who was a you know, a
veteran front office and talent evaluator whothey hired from Utah, Franks Anon,
who's been working in NBA front officesfor a long time. They've got a
(20:22):
really good crew. So even ifat the very top, if Leon is
the guy who well he's an agent, not a GM he's he's not a
basketball guy. They've got basketball guysin that front office. And here's where
I think their successes are. Ithink they were hired and Leon was hired
because it was like, oh,Cia, he can get he can get
star players who are CIA guys.That's the way that the Knicks always hired.
(20:44):
That's the way Jim James Dolan hasalways hired. He always tries to
get somebody who he thinks is goingto get him stars based on relationships or
reputation. It never works that way, and they haven't. Right they missed
out on Kevin Duranton, Kyrie Irving. Maybe they were fortunate to given the
way it went for the net.But what they've done, right, so
they've they haven't succeeded at the toplevel of go get established all Stars or
(21:07):
all NBA guys. What they havedone is they draft really well low right.
Emmanuel Quickly was a low first roundpick, and Quentin Grimes and Deuced
McBride they've gotten. They've found valuedeeper in the draft, which is really
hard to do. You know,you could question whether or not Obi Toppin
was the right pick with Tyrese Halliburtonstill on the board, but Toppin came
(21:30):
through in a pretty major way inthis first round series that we just saw.
But the higher picks they haven't hiton. They've they've been consistently hitting
on the lower picks and then they'vebeen opportunistic. They got Jalen Brunson,
and people can complain about tampering ifthey want to. The holding tampers.
You can say that it's because hisfathers on the bench, or because Leon
Roses is godfather, like whatever.It doesn't matter. Family ties ties.
(21:55):
They were the ones who decided toinvest one hundred million of Jalen Brunson and
it's to their credit. And youknow, so I think the it's and
then then they there's the guys theyinherited to. Okay, so Julius Randall
was the previous administration, but theythey've kept him. Mitchell Robinson was drafted
by the previous administration, but theyextended him. Um. So they've just
(22:17):
made good, solid moves around theedges. There's not one single move that
you would say, oh, that'sthe home run move. Yeah, but
the things that they have done havecollectively coalesced in a really solid team.
I don't know that the ceiling isthat high for this team. Harp you
may disagree. I'm not sure thata team without a single MVP caliber player
(22:40):
in a league that's that's always,like everybody know, it's always a Lebron
or a staff or a Kawhi ora Kevin Durant who wins the championship.
So I don't I don't see thatthis team going to the finals yet.
But my gosh, I've I've underestimatedthem, you know, several times already
this year. So who knows,I could I could be a sell them
(23:00):
short again? You know? Forme, I think everything is about timing.
We talked about the parody Howard ifyou would. In the NBA this
year, I didn't ever see atany point during the seat the regular season
that there was one clear cut favoriteto win it all. Well, I
take that back. I thought Milwaukeehealthy was the best team bar Nune,
(23:22):
Boston a close second as far asthe Eastern Conference is concerned. And talking
about Boston, do they come outof the East now? Then, since
you say the Knicks hit or missMiami hit or miss Philly. You know
Doc, we know Doc very well. Do you think that the Celtics the
(23:44):
team to beat so far moving towardsthe second round? To me, the
Celtics are the team to beat.And I thought even the way the season
ended, I felt like though Bostonhad the second best record in the East,
I thought the Celtics to me,were the team that had the best
case to it to win it allwhen the when the regular season ended,
Um, you know, listen,it's been an alarming first round for the
(24:07):
Celtics. They are they're they're doingthat thing that we see teams do sometimes,
great teams do where you know you'vegot the better talent, the better
depth, the better everything, andyou're up in a series and you start
letting a team creep back in becauseyou just don't know how to throw the
knockout punch. You get a littlecomplacent, you get you lose focus a
little bit. The Celtics, youknow, they blow leads, they don't
(24:30):
finish games. M I still thinkthey're gonna put away the Hawks. I
know, think that should happen afew hours after we record this M and
and then they're going into a secondround series against a Sixer team that you
know, the Sixers are are kindof funky, kind of hard to figure
out. And Joel Embiad's got aknee issue now that leaves him, as
(24:52):
far as I last I heard,leaves him questionable for to start that series.
If if Mbiad is hurt or limited, I think, you know,
I don't think the Sixers are winningthat series. So I think the Celtics
are in the conference finals against eitherthe Knicks or Heat, and I think
they've got superior talents no matter whichopponent it is. So to me,
(25:17):
I said this the other day,the Heat knocking the Bucks out in the
first round may have paved the wayfor the Celtics to go to the finals,
because I don't think the Bucks werethe team that had the best chance
to beat the Celtics. I don'tthink the Knicks of the Heat have have
that ability. I'm going to shiftto the West and briefly talk about what's
(25:37):
going on there. Obviously, Denverwon the most games during the regular season.
I want to talk about the Lakersand the Memphis series more Lebron James
and his legacy. He wins achampionship this year means, what does it
mean? He's the goat. There'salways the conversation, if you would how
(25:59):
it out, who's the best playerto ever play the game? I say
it's in any how do you seethings playing out with Lebron trying to put
away the Memphis Grizzlies. I likethat you pick Wilt because it's always you
know, we're such prisoners to themoment, in the moment, and people
(26:21):
don't always Jordan versus Lebron. Yeah, well, it's always Jordan Lebron.
And then at some point somebody who'sa little of the me will say,
you guys have this wrong. It'sactually Kareem And so sometimes we get oh,
okay, we get Kareem in theargument, but it very rarely goes
back far enough for people to bringin Wilt or Bill Russell. Um,
I'm an agnostic on the goat thing, Like I just to me, the
(26:42):
game has evolved so much that tryingto compare players across the eras it's just
an impossible task. I don't ifI don't know that there's an objective answer
to the goat question, and I'mnot sure I care. I don't mind
other people debating it till the endof time, and they will. Um,
I don't have a dog in thatfight. And if Lebron wins another
(27:03):
championship, it would be incredible todo that in year twenty at age thirty
eight. I think the odds arestacked against him, but it'd being incredible.
And and I think I think,I think the Lakers can make a
run, like the West is kindof wonky right now. They've got to
put away the Grizzlies first. Andyou know, uh, Lebron did not
(27:26):
have a great game last night inGame five, and he was the first
to say I played like crap basically. They you know, look, Lebron
and Anthony Davis are carrying a prettybig load. And for Lebron at this
stage of his career to be carryingthat much. It's it's tough even in
a playoff series where the games arespread out a little bit more. You're
(27:47):
they're bouncing between LA and Memphis,Tennessee. As those are some long flights,
and the Grizzlies are younger with freshlegs. I know, you know,
obviously John Morants banged up with therisk thing, but he's been fantastic
regardless, Like the Lakers are playingwith fire if they lose Game six at
home, because winning a Game sevenwith that turnaround, going all the way
(28:10):
back to Memphis again would would spelltrouble for them. I picked the Lakers
in six in this series before itstarted. It looks like that's the way
this is gonna play out. Ithink they're gonna close it out at home
in LA, but they're gonna needsomething like like they had in I think
it was a Game one when RuyHotchimura had the breakout game. Like one
of those guys a Hatchi Mura ora DeAngelo Russell Austin Leaves, one of
(28:34):
those guys needs needs a breakout game. Because it's too much to ask Lebron
to be putting up a triple doubleevery night, or to go score thirty
five forty. He can and hemight, but like the guy's got a
lot of miles on him and it'sbeen a tough season for him injury wise
too. You know, if healthy, I thought the Clippers would really give
(28:56):
the Sons fits. I really did, if they had Paul George excuse me,
and Kawhi Leonard. Which brings meto this, Howard. Obviously,
injuries are a part of sports.Any sport, baseball, basketball, football,
you name it. People get hurt. It's just that simple. And
Kawhi Leonard has fallen so many times. I mean, he has had a
(29:21):
hard time staying healthy to help histeam advanced year after year after year.
In fact, Stephen A. Smithquote, it was quoted as saying,
and I quote that they should payKawhi Leonard to go away. What's your
take on that? And if youwould, how would talk about load management
(29:42):
because that's something that I am justbaffled about, to be completely honest with
you. Yeah, So there's athere's a lot of stuff there, harp
um. Let me start with obviously, Kawhi Leonard's not going to be told
to go away. No, No, I agree, Yeah, Yeah,
(30:02):
the clip the Clippers The Clippers dohave a lot to think about right now.
Kawhi letter to Paul George. You'regoing into the last year of their
contracts. They're eligible for massive extensions. They both have really tough injury histories,
including this season. Obviously they theClippers, you know, broadly speaking,
again, it's been a failure sincethey got Paul George and Kawhi Leonard
(30:26):
four years ago. They have notgotten the payoff that you wanted, which
is to at least make the finalsa couple of times and win a championship.
And they've they've fallen far short,mostly because one or both of them
is always hurt. So it's tough. And they're going into a new building.
They finally are going to have theirown arena in a year, and
you want, you know, thegeneral philosophy as you want star power when
(30:49):
you're going into a new building sothat you can sell tickets. And it's
a lot for them to consider,but I don't think this is a time
to go breaking them up. Thoseguys are hard to come by, and
granted it's frustrating as hell, I'msure for that um that franchise and their
fan base, but at at fullstrength, there. It's not too many
(31:11):
duos in the NBA who are betterthan Paul George and Kawhi Leonard together.
Um, I don't. I don'tknow what the answer there is other than
you know, you keep going andyou hope for the best. You hope
for better injury luck this time interms of the load management part, I
mean, Kawhi didn't miss time likemost of the time Kawhi missed this season.
(31:33):
I don't think it was about loadmanagement. It was he was injured
again. Um you. He hasbecome the poster boy for load management because
of his time in Toronto, specificallythe year that he spent there, where
like they kind of created I thinkthat that phrase for him, the way
that they were trying to nurse himthrough the season after he'd had the strange
leg injury that m marred his finalyear with San Antonio and that caused the
(31:59):
rift between him and Antonio. Yes, and they nursed him through the season
in Toronto. He was fresh forthe playoffs, he led them to a
championship and from there it's like that'swhere this all kind of like gets set
in stone. I think in theway that we all perceive load management and
maybe other teams do too, whichis oh okay. If you can take
(32:19):
your veteran who whether they have aninjury history, whether they are recovering from
a surgery that requires them to youknow, you know, take more time
off in the regular season, whateverit may be. Kawhi Leonard is now
the example of that. They nursethem through the regular season. He played
sixty plus games. They want achampionship, that's the way to do it.
And it's fed into this modern approachto the NBA season in which everybody
(32:45):
kind of values it. Right,we're talking about shortening the season. It'll
never happen because of the money,but we talk about shortening the season because
it feels like the regular season justdoesn't matter as much anymore. And more
and more teams are for in variousdifferent ways. It's not all load management,
but in various different ways are tryingto manage the toll that players take
(33:06):
their return from injury, trying toalleviate back to backs, those kinds of
things, and it's all understandable.Players are making, you know, tens
of millions of dollars and in fact, over the course of a single contract,
sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars.Now it's a massive investment, so
it's not just for the player,it's for you as the franchise. This
is you know, you want toprotect your investment, you want to get
(33:30):
the most pots three the buck outof your investment, and you know it's
it's to everyone's benefit to ensure theirlongevity and to keep them fresh for the
postseason if you're expecting to make adeep run. I don't know what the
answer to that is, harp likelike I would question, not question.
It would be helpful if we thepublic knew more about the science behind this.
(33:51):
Right If the medical staffs who aredictating a player's regimen are going to
say it's because we are trying toprevent injury, or we're trying to nurse
them back from this one injury andtrying to make sure that it doesn't they're
not favoring the other leg or thisor that. It would be helpful if
we the public had more information anddata from the experts so that we can
(34:13):
understand why this is the right way, because in the meantime, all we
see is, well, these guysaren't playing. They're not playing as much
as their predecessors did In other erasthey're not playing and I bought this ticket
for hundreds of dollars and now they'renot there. It's the frustration from the
fans is palpable, and it's justifiable. And while I'm not one to sit
(34:35):
here and like condemned load management,all I'm saying is if the league is
going to make this the new normal, they owe it to their fan base,
to the public to do a betterjob of explaining why this makes sense,
why this is justified, so peoplearen't left in the dark. You
(34:55):
know, it's not like tickets orten dollars like they used to be when
I had here, So that thatmakes a lot of sense. Where you're
going give the viewers an idea ofwhat the what the city is like when
the Knicks are playing in the playoffs, when they're on top of their game.
(35:15):
You know, we talked a littlebit off the air about that,
how it just seems a little differentwhen New York is involved this time of
the year. Well, it's it'sit's interesting like I got here in two
thousand and four and the Knicks werepretty bad and then got progressively worse,
and then they occasionally have a fewsigns of life and then and then get
(35:36):
bad again. So I've I hadonly covered like a couple of playoff games
here really because they'd only this Thisplayoff series victory over Cleveland was only the
second time they've won a playoff series, and I think twenty two years and
the last one was in twenty thirteen. That was the year they won fifty
four games. They get to thesecond round and lose to the Pacers.
(36:00):
I had not been into a playoffgame at the Garden in ten years now.
They were in the playoffs a coupleof years ago against Atlanta, but
we were still coming out of COVID. There were still restrictions. I didn't
go to those games. The buildingstill wasn't full yet. So I went
to Game three of Calves Knicks atthe Garden and holy crap, harp.
Like you know from your own experienceand your playing career, that place was
(36:22):
bonkers and no piped in noise,no amplified bs like this was just natural
fan excitement and an intensity. Andthis is before pregame intros had even started.
My ear drums were vibrating just fromthe noise of the building. And
(36:43):
then as soon as the game didstart, the Calv's first possession, first
possession, there's an entire arena chantingnineteen twenty thousand people chanting defense with no
prompt from the PA system or fromanybody else. They just started doing it
and it was loud as hell.And by the way, the Calves were
rattled because of it. Darius GarlandEvan mobile. These guys are in their
(37:04):
first ever playoff series. They didn'tknow what hit him. Yeah, they
didn't know what hit him. Andall right, look, I'll say real
quick. So like covering those Lakerschampionship teams in the shot Kobe years,
Staples Center, while kind of Cavernius, could certainly get loud and had a
great home court vibe when they wereat their best. UM Portland at the
Rose Garden back in the day wasintense, uh Key Arena and Seattle was
(37:30):
phenomenal. Delta Center in Utah wasreally loud. Like my early years covering
the Lakers, those are the placesI remembered being the loudest, the most
intense. UM Boston and all thetimes, like I've covered a few finals
there now, they're always really great. But I had not really been able
to see the Garden at full justactivation I guess until this past week and
(37:54):
man, um, it's it's wildand what it's the heat coming to town
now, holy man, Like Idon't know what's gonna happen, Like the
roof, I'm gonna be in NewYork doing that series. I can't give
you a date how but I wouldn'tmiss at least one game in that atmosphere
for nothing in the world. Ihave to get to New York. I've
(38:16):
already got some some some some callsin to try to get myself some tickets,
and I'm gonna come and and andand be a part of all of
that that excitement. It sounded electricin the building in Games three. You
know what I want to do.I want to ask you, where do
you think the state of the NBAis right now? Obviously, excuse me,
(38:39):
a lot of young players. Youknow, you got Luca, you
got Morant, you got Jason Tatum, just a lot of young talent.
Do you think that the league isin a good place right now? I
think the league is in a goodplace. I think the depth of talent
is really incredible, in part becausewe have guys who are the older generation
(39:00):
of stars who because of maybe whetherit's load management or just modern player care,
better conditioning, year round, attentionto their bodies, smarter about nutrition,
better training, having personal trainers,whatever it is. You know,
Lebron is still a star at avery late stage of his career. You
(39:22):
know, Chris paul Is, youknow, we've seen some slippage, but
he's still really effective. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, like guys are getting
into there at a time when inthe past, you go into your mid
thirties, that's when guys start tofall off a cliff. So we that's
not happening anymore. So now thestars are extending their careers. And meanwhile
that means a longer overlap with theyounger generation, right um, And so
(39:45):
John Rant and Jason Tatum and theseguys are coming up Anthony Edwards, while
the you know a generation or twothat that that we were ahead of them
are still operating at a high level. So the depth of talent, high
leve talent is really great right now. Um, What would concern me,
I suppose if I were the leagueoffice, is you know, there's great
(40:09):
talent, harp, but is anybodyas compelling as Lebron James is anybody as
compelling as Steph Curry. If thosetwo retired tomorrow, who's who's the must
see? And I and I thinklike John Morant for just basketball reasons and
and and um excitement, the wayhe plays the game. He's an exciting
(40:30):
player. Okay, he's he's mustsee. And and yeah, maybe whether
Janis or Luca like, there's there'sgreat talent and who I want to watch
play basketball. Yeah, but asa as as as a personality, there's
nobody like like Lebron is so polarizingand Steph is just so unique and joyful
in the way he plays the game. The charisma, it's this undefinable thing,
(40:54):
right, Like Michael wasn't like Michael. Whether he's the goat or not,
Um, whether he won six championshipsor not, Michael had a magnetism
about him that was bigger than justwhether or not he could uh win six
titles or be all NBA every yearor hang fifty on you or whatever.
There's a there was another element abouthim, and it's why he was the
(41:16):
consummate pitchman too in terms of hiscommercial endorsements. Um, when you look
at some of the guys now likeJannis isn't a bunch of a bunch of
commercials, and Jannison and Beat aretogether in those the cell phone commercials.
But like Luca doesn't do anything,Lucas like not a presence beyond Dallas.
(41:37):
On that note, and same withYoki's, same with yokis Like these guys
are not the same kind of presencecommercially, which I think means it's harder
for the NBA to to sell themas the new face of the league whence
Lebron and Steph are gone. Howwhat if you if you could get in
Luca's ear? We we talked aboutDontage, were talking about personalities bigger than
(41:58):
life, personalities in some the guysthat we're talking about. What does Luca
need to do in your opinion?Because the guy average thirty three points,
eight rebounds, eight assists this pastseason, but he still doesn't seem to
to grasp what it takes to leada team. Where what direction would you
(42:21):
point him in if you had theopportunity too? Wow, that's a tough
one. I mean, I'm youknow, I'm not not a player,
not a coach, and not anage I feel unqualified on some level.
So that that caveat out of theway. UM. So there's different kinds
(42:43):
of leadership in this league. Ithink you would you would agree with this,
um, Right, Like there's theguys who lead by example, there's
the guys who lead by their theirtheir presence, their voice. UM.
And and you could do that indifferent ways too, right, Like Steph
doesn't lead the same way that KobeBryant led, or that Michael Jordan led.
Tim Duncan led differently. Right,Luca is just such an incredible player
(43:10):
and incredible talent. I think he'sgonna uplift guys around him just by the
gravity of his game and the abilityto just do so much with the ball
in his hands. What would concernme about Luca overall is people have made
the comparison a lot to James Harden. I always found James Harden in his
Houston days to be frustrating in thesense that he was so ball dominant.
(43:35):
Yeah he could win a lot ofgames. Yeah he could score a lot,
assist a lot everything else. ButI had to feel like watching him,
that must not be a lot offun to be his teammate. The
winning is fun, but standing aroundwatching him, you know, dribble the
air out of the ball would notbe Luca doesn't maybe do it quite to
the level of James Harden, buthis usage rate is pretty far up there.
(43:57):
And I think that was the pointof the exercise in going and getting
Kay Irving, was to have somebodyelse who could share the burden, share
the load and you know, hopefullynot burn out Luca, but also make
sure that the ball is going somewhereelse occasionally so that defenses can't just key
in on one guy. But nowyou've got two guys who might dominate the
ball, and I'm not sure ifI want to be one of the other
(44:17):
three guys. And I'm not sayingit makes me selfish. I'm saying that
if, if, if that isthe way that you know how to win,
and that's what comes naturally to you, and your coach has empowered you
to do it this way, whetheryou're Russell Westbrook or James Harden or Janis
or Luca, then I get it. So I'm not I'm not making the
(44:38):
selfish argument at all. What Iam saying is I don't know, like
in my view, and I amthe outsider in this, but having covered
those Phil Jackson Laker teams. Havingcovered Mike D'Antoni for a while, Mike
and Phil had two very very differentphilosophies about how to coach in the NBA
and what kind of offense to run. But the through line the thing that
(45:00):
I think I learned from both ofthem and that I really respected and that
I agree with it's become part ofmy own basketball values is I think the
ball's got to move. I thinkthat guys need to feel involved. I
think that if you're at some pointin the fourth quarter of a tight game
and you're getting double teamed and youfinally have to kick it out to you
know, the wing, and youhaven't passed to that guy in like three
(45:21):
hours, he might not be inrhythm and he might not be at his
sharpest. I just think that esthetically, it's more fun to watch basketball for
a team that moves the ball theway to say the Warriors do or the
Spurs when they've been at their bestMike d'antoni's old sons teams, and I
also think that that's what engenders abetter feeling of camaraderie with your team,
(45:45):
right, So, um, youknow, far be it for me to
tell Luca how to play, orJason Kidd how to coach, but I
gotta think that, or or NicoHarrison how to sign players, because like
I think they need to overhaul theroster frankly. But but you have it
on point though, Yeah, whereLuca has teammates he trusts and will pass
(46:07):
to and in an offense that's alittle bit more dynamic, right, Jason
Kidd always move the ball. Ican't imagine Jason Kidd really wants Luca to
just dribble the air out of it. So um to me, you need
a team with a little bit moredynamism and more playmaking, more everything.
I mean, they've got a thousandneeds. I think right now you can
speak to that better than I could. You've seen them more than I have.
(46:29):
Yeah, I've taken up a lotof your time, and I appreciate
your time. But really quick andI'll get you out of here. Who
comes out of the East I thinkyou said Boston earlier. Who comes out
of the West? Yeahs, asfar as you're concerned, who will be
in the NBA Finals this year?Yeah, I mean I'll be surprised if
it's not Boston out of the East. But man in a year like this,
(46:50):
nothing should surprise me anymore. Isuppose Um and the Heat and the
Knicks and even the Sixers I thinkwould be capable. But I think it's
the Celtics in the West. It'sjust weird kind of I start thinking about
it as not who's the most talentedteam, but who do I trust the
most? Like the Nuggets are talentedand had the best record in the West,
I'm not sure I trust them becauseof you know, their their inability
(47:13):
or inconsistency playing defense at a highlevel. Yu Jamal Murray's emergence again has
has made them, I think,more viable, because you know, Jokis
needs a second star to to takesome of the playmaking and scoring duties.
The Suns have the best talent onpaper, but they just beat a Clipper
team that was totally beat up inthe first round. Yeah, and we
(47:36):
barely saw to rent with that teamin the regular season, so I'm not
I'm still not sure what to makeof the Sun yet, and their bench
is terrible. The Warriors have beenwonky all season, but looks like they're
gonna win their first round series,and I still like they're the defending champs
and I still stubbornly believe in theWarriors. So and then there's the Lakers.
I'm not sure if the Lakers haveenough to get through, But like
(47:59):
all any of these teams, harpcould come out and I wouldn't necessarily be
entirely shocked. I had to pickone, I'm going with the Warriors right
now, going with the Warriors.I'm going with the Warriors. I trust
their championship metal, basically the musclememory, the time they've had together,
knowing each other as well as theydo. And the thing is like Steph
(48:21):
has had no real erosion since ayear ago when they won the title.
Clay is actually better right now thanhe was a year ago. Draymond is
still playing at an incredibly high level. Yes, Pool's got that much more
experience under his belt, Wiggins hasthat much more experience under his belt.
Peyton Looney like that group just wona title last June. Far be it
for me to think that they can'tdo it again. And yeah, I
know they've had a weird season,but I still think they got a shot.
(48:45):
You know what, I'm right therewith you. I'm gonna go repeat
from last year the Warriors in Bostonbut I only the thing for me is
unless something strange happens. I thinkBoston is a lot more deeper as a
team than the Warriors, and theCeltics find a way to be champions once
again. How you're the best man. I really appreciate your time. This
(49:08):
has been fun. Please come backagain and hang out with me on Harp's
Court. So thank you Harp.It was my pleasure. Man was great
talking to you. Was always happyto come back anytime. Absolutely all of
us at the DUB Network would liketo thank the crew at Herman Marshall Whiskey
(49:31):
for sponsoring another episode of Harp's Court. Herman Marshall small Batch whiskey is handcrafted
and award winning and whether it beThere Texas, Bourbon Texas, Rye Texas
Single Malt, or They're blended bourbonwhiskey, all are built from the grain
up, just like good whiskey shouldbe. And make sure you check out
(49:52):
their amazing tasting room in Whiley,Texas if you get a chance. I
promise you you won't be disappointed.It's a great place to pop on in
and enjoy one of their specialty drinksor two, or for hosting special occasions
like birthday parties, mixers, weddingsor receptions. Thank you so much, Herman Marshall
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