October 10, 2024 • 20 mins
PART 4 - Welcome to Carly Zucker’s Podcast, where we dive into the deep, real, and raw conversations of life—relationships, mental health, trauma, and recovery—along with everything in between.
Each week, Carly explores these difficult topics, embracing vulnerability and the beauty in brokenness. Through candid conversations, she shares her own journey and provides resources to offer hope and raise awareness.
Each week, Carly explores these difficult topics, embracing vulnerability and the beauty in brokenness. Through candid conversations, she shares her own journey and provides resources to offer hope and raise awareness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I'm Carly Zuker.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen today.
We are in the final chapter of my story today
with Chris Hockey.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Thank you so much for listening. Here we go.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
And we're back. That's Carl Zucker.
Speaker 5 (00:22):
My name is Chris Hockey, and we are in a
deep conversation. We kind of knew that we come up
with some sort of title by this.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I know it could just be conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
So when we last spoke, we were talking about the process.
Now you you have, you've rejoined society.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, after eighty days of treatment.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
After eighty days of treatment, and I mean that's been
some time since then.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
But the.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
You know, it's not as we said. You don't flip
a switch and get better. I asked you what your
life is like on a daily basis these days. What
kind of work do you do right now to stay
on the right.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Road, on the right road.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You know, what I can say is that there are
weeks where I am all in on that work.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
For me.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It can be yoga, AA meetings, journaling, even like hot
I love hot water and Lemits simple things, very simple
things that you can be grateful for, very simple things.
That you can do. Some weeks, I'm very good at
those things. Some weeks, I can tell you, you know, when
I don't have the kids and I don't have the
(01:36):
accountability to go somewhere, it can be difficult. I can
lay in bed and have a difficult day.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
And I want to be very honest.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
About that, yeah, because it you know, I'm not perfect
at this, but I will say I'll keep working, you know,
and I want it to become a much more.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know, frequent schedule routine.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I guess is the word I'm looking for thing for me,
and I won't stop working towards that.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And I think that's the biggest thing is that I'm
starting to.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Enjoy life again, and I genuinely haven't and hadn't for
so long.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
And so I'm starting to enjoy living again.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And being grateful, like I said, for those little things,
and that's a huge thing. That's a huge win for me.
So that's kind of where I'm at. And I'm still
in such a transition part of life. I don't know
what the future looks like, which is terrifying, but I'm
(02:49):
ready to get I'm ready. That's why you know, I
waited a long time to do this, to share this story,
and I could have gotten out of treatment. And part
of me wanted to share right away because I'm like, oh,
I want to clear up any rumors and if I
go back on the radio, what are people going to say?
But I wanted to wait until I had a lot
(03:10):
more clarity on what that whole experience was and get
to a point that I felt like I was ready
to share. And so that's where I am today. I'm
just I'm ready to get back out there. I'm ready
to lift the embarrassment and almost make it empowerment of
(03:31):
my story and own it and be a resource. I
just I want to be a resource for people so badly.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, I am.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
I find myself now focused on this, this concept, and
I wonder if this.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Speaks to you.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
For me, a lot of my biggest issues were my
I was a result of my relationship with pain.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
And let me explain that if I can the pain
of what I went through, the trauma.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
And that blanket we were talking about, that dirty blanket
that is suffering, that even though it's suffering, is all you.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Know, so it's familiar and comfortable.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
So I'm trying to refocus my relationship with pain. I
heard a gentleman say an author say that if you
look around the starting line at an ultra marathon, eight
of the ten people you see are addicts, recovering addicts,
because what they've done is found a way to refocus
their relationship with pain as opposed to hurting themselves with alcohol,
(04:42):
with gambling, with sex, with narcotics. They've found a way
to put themselves through physical pain in a way that
is much healthier. Now, of course, any addiction can be bad.
You can hurt yourself physically with exercise as much as anything.
But I'm try try to refocus my relationship to pain
(05:05):
and focus it in a way that is less hurtful.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah. How do you How do you view your relationship
with the pain of your past?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah? I think a lot of it for me has
been the idea that maybe the people who have been
involved in the trauma are guilty of it. But as
we know through our education we've done at Hoffman, but
they're not to blame, yea. And so they can be
guilty but not to blame. And I think changing for me,
(05:40):
and this kind of relates to the pain thing from
being a victim to being educated and to being empowered
by my experience has taken away that shame and that
comfortability of just going back to the pain and the victimhood.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
But also I think, I don't know. I still I
still struggle.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
With going back to feeling a lot of shame around
a lot of things and blaming myself.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know, above all, I think before I blamed anybody.
You know, you blame yourself. But I just think that
instead of pain now and just living in.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That, I allow myself to feel. I guess is what
I want to say. I didn't want to feel before,
and I didn't allow myself to feel.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I couldn't be sad, I couldn't be mad.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I have no reason to be, I have no right
to be again, like we're unworthy of these I'm I'm
worthy of this life. I can't feel this now, I
allow myself to feel. I want my kids to feel
all the range of emotions. If I'm angry, that it's okay,
but be appropriately angry. If you're sad, be in the sadness,
(07:06):
go through it. And I have never allowed myself to
do that in all of my life, allowed to feel
those emotions. So for me, a lot of it is
being able to sit with the uncomfortable emotions and then
come out on the other side.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
No, it's not going to be forever, right, right?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Is that sometimes when I was like, before I allowed this,
it was kind of like this is just going to
feel forever, so what's the point, right, And now it's like,
oh no, like tomorrow can be a totally different day.
This afternoon an hour from now could be a totally
different moment. So feel what you're feeling, accept it, deal
(07:51):
with it appropriately.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And then know that every moment is different.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Yeah, I love that differentiation there. You're going to fight
the darkness from time to time for the rest of
your life. The difference now is that you know there's
going to be light as well. And again I struggle
with the cliche that you read and that you see
on the screen, But for some sometimes the cliches that
(08:19):
for a reason, because it's the truth that the fact
of the matter is you're going to be able to
better identify the light by going through the darkness. And
you have to acknowledge to yourself when you're covering yourself
with that blanket of suffering that you've had, you have
the ability, if you have the desire to remove it,
(08:42):
and that the darkness is there, but it's not permanent.
You can find your way out of it. That's the
skill that you learned, that we both learned to develop.
And that knowledge that you're going to find yourself in
the darkness, but you're going to find your way back
out again.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
That is the most powerful thing, Carly. That's the most
powerful thing.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And if I can give a quick example of kind
of both of those things, and just I mean trigger worrying.
This this is talks about that suicidal ideation. But when
it was when I was mentally relapsing, when it was
that bad for me and my anxiety and depression were
(09:25):
so high, I couldn't make a phone call, I couldn't
get out of bed, and I was begging my.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Mom to just let me die.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I was just begging her. I was like, I can't
do this another moment, and there was absolutely light. That
was the darkest I've ever felt, and begging not to
be here.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And there was light.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And so what you said is so true, is that
being aware that there's light and to keep going and
time and it all may sounds so cliche and right,
but like give yourself the time and give yourself the
grace and the love to know that that darkness will
(10:19):
not last forever.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, and that there is light.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Believe it, Believe it because it's true. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
I mean I often think about my my day, my moment,
my decision. Yeah, I have the date, I know it.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, the same Yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
And I think of I mean, since since that day,
there's been a lot of pain, Yeah, that I've inflicted
on people I love through the process of learning and
being honest. It's such a terrible relationship with honesty. I
was so afraid of it obviously.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Wow, that that speaks to me so much.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Yes, Yeah, but I think back to that day, April eighth,
and I think about the year and change since that day,
and there's been really bad times, but man, there's been
some great moments.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
So I say to you, if you're out there and
you're experiencing a dark day right now, you can't imagine
what might happen a week from now.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, Yeah, you have no idea.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Why not wait around and see it? Yeah, you know,
not to be so blunt. You're going to be dead
for a long time. Yeah, a long time.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
There's not much left, so just.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Right Imagine what you might experience next Tuesday. Imagine what
might happen. I stood on stage, and this is a
special thing because I'm super lucky and I know that,
but not everybody gets to do this. But I stood
on stage two weeks ago and shot coad be.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Of what must have.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Been six thousand people singing along with me, like asbon Joey.
It's one of the great moments of my life.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I wouldn't have had that.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, one of the greatest moments I've had since is
being on stage with you at the Root party.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I was just so.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Rawly having fun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You know, I didn't have anything in me, you know,
there I wasn't drinking, and you know in the past
I would and you've seen me. I would have been
drinking and sloppy up there maybe or just not me.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And I was up there and I was living it, and.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It was one of the best moments I've had in
this sobriety.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And I just felt all of it and loved every
moment of it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And that has to do with the listeners too, like
just seeing all of them out there and supporting you
guys and being there and talking to them like I
was able to have conversation and I.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Don't know, that just might not have happened before.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And so I felt like I was really able to
open up and engage there. And so that's something I
wouldn't have known. It's something I wouldn't have had. And
all these beautiful moments with the kids, I wouldn't have
had any of that.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Man, I'm talking on a small scale and on an
enormous scale.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
I mean, imagine I was a target the other day
by myself. I came outside in the sunset was so beautiful.
Little things, but big things.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Man.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
You know, if you're broken hearted, if you've hurt somebody,
or you've been hurt, you have no idea how much
of a blessing it might have been for you and
for that other person. Two months from now you might
meet the true love of your life or the next
love of your life.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah right, no.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Again, it's super bloody. You're going to be dead for
a long time. Live give it a chance. The darkness
is there, but there will be sunshine, and you have
no idea what it might be that you might experience
next Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Keep saying to that, I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Know why, but there'll be a Tuesday and there should
be a Tuesday, and there there are so many memories
to be made that haven't been yet, Yeah, and so
many smiles and laughter and pain and all of it
is a human experience, and I think that that is
what I wasn't living in, you know, and so and
(15:00):
I don't want any of this to sound you know,
I definitely don't want it to feel like I'm glorifying anything,
or that I'm saying my importance is the or my
story is the most important story, none of that, right, Like,
I hope people are still listening in the sense that
this touches you in some way, you know, whether you
(15:23):
know someone who's gone through some of these things or you.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Felt some of it.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
And again, it's such varying degrees, right, none of us
are the same, none of us have had the same experience,
but we.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
All go through something.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And my genuine hope in sharing this is to be
a resource for people, That is my hope. I mean,
I will respond to you if you DM me, if
you email me about any of this, I will be
a resource for you.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
And it's not just you, and I know this is
I'm speaking directly to the person listening right now, You'll
be amazed at how many.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
People in your life want to help you.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Yeah, and how much you can help people, because what
you're going to do is you're going to reach out
and say I need help with this, and they're going
to say, yeah, I feel you. I need help with
that too, and you can do it together. It's amazing.
I want to We're almost wrapped up here, but I
want to say something else too. You mentioned a couple
of moments ago that I took away from Hoffman which
helped me so much.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You're guilty, but you're not to blame.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
I want to say this to you out there. Whatever
you did, whatever you're hoof the mountain of corpses that
you're standing on, you're guilty. You can admit that, but
you're not to blame. We're all a victim of our
(16:46):
patterns and the things that happened to us. So your
first step today is forgiving yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Have compassion for yourself, true compassion, and like you said,
you can be guilty of it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And accountability is important.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You have to accountability I think with I mean addiction
and the things that you do just life right life
in general. Accountability is important, but don't carry that blame
and shame.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Right, you're guilty, but you're not to blame. So forgive
yourself and get started getting better. Yeah, get started being
get started seeing the sunshine. Man, you know, try, just try.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Know that you are worthy of this life and find
what makes you happy. Yeah, and live that, because again,
you're gonna be dead for a long long time, for.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
A long long time.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I love you so so much.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, I'm glad you're here. Thank you so much for
doing this with me. It's meant a lot.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
You mean a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, and again I want to say my emails, my message,
everything is open. The point of this was to honestly
empower myself a little bit with sharing my story, but
also to be maybe make treatment less scary for someone
who might need to walk through the doors, and to
(18:22):
be a resource for people out there whether you're lonely
and scared and don't know your next step. I definitely
might not have the answer. I probably don't, but I
am absolutely here to be supportive.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
A huge heartfelt thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I promise I'm not going to take this much time
at the end of every episode, but I did want
to say a special thank you to my family and
friends who have.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Picked me up. They've sat with me, walked with me,
kept me going.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I am just forever grateful for what you have invested
in me, So thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It would be too long to name all of you,
but you know who you are.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
A huge thank you to Chris Hockey for being just
an incredible friend and confidante and guiding me through this
interview today. Dave Plante for filming, Zach Halverson and Brett
Blake Moore for producing. Thank you all so much for
putting this together. You know.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Please look for more information on the next.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Episodes we'll be releasing every Thursday, and they'll.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Be on various topics.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
We're going to talk about support systems and what it
looks like to be on the other side and have
emotional conversations with my sister and my family about that,
and then have professionals talk about what that looks like.
Child psychologists will do and ask us anything situation, so
we are going to have a lot to talk about.
(19:52):
Please visit my website here we go podcast dot com
for more information as we build this community together, and
most importantly, if you are in crisis, reach out for
help at nami dot org or call one eight hundred
two seven three eight two five five.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Thanks for listening. Here we go, guys,
I'm Carly Zuker.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen today.
We are in the final chapter of my story today
with Chris Hockey.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Thank you so much for listening. Here we go.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
And we're back. That's Carl Zucker.
Speaker 5 (00:22):
My name is Chris Hockey, and we are in a
deep conversation. We kind of knew that we come up
with some sort of title by this.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I know it could just be conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
So when we last spoke, we were talking about the process.
Now you you have, you've rejoined society.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, after eighty days of treatment.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
After eighty days of treatment, and I mean that's been
some time since then.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
But the.
Speaker 5 (00:48):
You know, it's not as we said. You don't flip
a switch and get better. I asked you what your
life is like on a daily basis these days. What
kind of work do you do right now to stay
on the right.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Road, on the right road.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You know, what I can say is that there are
weeks where I am all in on that work.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
For me.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It can be yoga, AA meetings, journaling, even like hot
I love hot water and Lemits simple things, very simple
things that you can be grateful for, very simple things.
That you can do. Some weeks, I'm very good at
those things. Some weeks, I can tell you, you know, when
I don't have the kids and I don't have the
(01:36):
accountability to go somewhere, it can be difficult. I can
lay in bed and have a difficult day.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
And I want to be very honest.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
About that, yeah, because it you know, I'm not perfect
at this, but I will say I'll keep working, you know,
and I want it to become a much more.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know, frequent schedule routine.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I guess is the word I'm looking for thing for me,
and I won't stop working towards that.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And I think that's the biggest thing is that I'm
starting to.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Enjoy life again, and I genuinely haven't and hadn't for
so long.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
And so I'm starting to enjoy living again.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And being grateful, like I said, for those little things,
and that's a huge thing. That's a huge win for me.
So that's kind of where I'm at. And I'm still
in such a transition part of life. I don't know
what the future looks like, which is terrifying, but I'm
(02:49):
ready to get I'm ready. That's why you know, I
waited a long time to do this, to share this story,
and I could have gotten out of treatment. And part
of me wanted to share right away because I'm like, oh,
I want to clear up any rumors and if I
go back on the radio, what are people going to say?
But I wanted to wait until I had a lot
(03:10):
more clarity on what that whole experience was and get
to a point that I felt like I was ready
to share. And so that's where I am today. I'm
just I'm ready to get back out there. I'm ready
to lift the embarrassment and almost make it empowerment of
(03:31):
my story and own it and be a resource. I
just I want to be a resource for people so badly.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, I am.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
I find myself now focused on this, this concept, and
I wonder if this.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Speaks to you.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
For me, a lot of my biggest issues were my
I was a result of my relationship with pain.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
And let me explain that if I can the pain
of what I went through, the trauma.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
And that blanket we were talking about, that dirty blanket
that is suffering, that even though it's suffering, is all you.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Know, so it's familiar and comfortable.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
So I'm trying to refocus my relationship with pain. I
heard a gentleman say an author say that if you
look around the starting line at an ultra marathon, eight
of the ten people you see are addicts, recovering addicts,
because what they've done is found a way to refocus
their relationship with pain as opposed to hurting themselves with alcohol,
(04:42):
with gambling, with sex, with narcotics. They've found a way
to put themselves through physical pain in a way that
is much healthier. Now, of course, any addiction can be bad.
You can hurt yourself physically with exercise as much as anything.
But I'm try try to refocus my relationship to pain
(05:05):
and focus it in a way that is less hurtful.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah. How do you How do you view your relationship
with the pain of your past?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah? I think a lot of it for me has
been the idea that maybe the people who have been
involved in the trauma are guilty of it. But as
we know through our education we've done at Hoffman, but
they're not to blame, yea. And so they can be
guilty but not to blame. And I think changing for me,
(05:40):
and this kind of relates to the pain thing from
being a victim to being educated and to being empowered
by my experience has taken away that shame and that
comfortability of just going back to the pain and the victimhood.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
But also I think, I don't know. I still I
still struggle.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
With going back to feeling a lot of shame around
a lot of things and blaming myself.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know, above all, I think before I blamed anybody.
You know, you blame yourself. But I just think that
instead of pain now and just living in.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That, I allow myself to feel. I guess is what
I want to say. I didn't want to feel before,
and I didn't allow myself to feel.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I couldn't be sad, I couldn't be mad.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I have no reason to be, I have no right
to be again, like we're unworthy of these I'm I'm
worthy of this life. I can't feel this now, I
allow myself to feel. I want my kids to feel
all the range of emotions. If I'm angry, that it's okay,
but be appropriately angry. If you're sad, be in the sadness,
(07:06):
go through it. And I have never allowed myself to
do that in all of my life, allowed to feel
those emotions. So for me, a lot of it is
being able to sit with the uncomfortable emotions and then
come out on the other side.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
No, it's not going to be forever, right, right?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Is that sometimes when I was like, before I allowed this,
it was kind of like this is just going to
feel forever, so what's the point, right, And now it's like,
oh no, like tomorrow can be a totally different day.
This afternoon an hour from now could be a totally
different moment. So feel what you're feeling, accept it, deal
(07:51):
with it appropriately.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And then know that every moment is different.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
Yeah, I love that differentiation there. You're going to fight
the darkness from time to time for the rest of
your life. The difference now is that you know there's
going to be light as well. And again I struggle
with the cliche that you read and that you see
on the screen, But for some sometimes the cliches that
(08:19):
for a reason, because it's the truth that the fact
of the matter is you're going to be able to
better identify the light by going through the darkness. And
you have to acknowledge to yourself when you're covering yourself
with that blanket of suffering that you've had, you have
the ability, if you have the desire to remove it,
(08:42):
and that the darkness is there, but it's not permanent.
You can find your way out of it. That's the
skill that you learned, that we both learned to develop.
And that knowledge that you're going to find yourself in
the darkness, but you're going to find your way back
out again.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
That is the most powerful thing, Carly. That's the most
powerful thing.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And if I can give a quick example of kind
of both of those things, and just I mean trigger worrying.
This this is talks about that suicidal ideation. But when
it was when I was mentally relapsing, when it was
that bad for me and my anxiety and depression were
(09:25):
so high, I couldn't make a phone call, I couldn't
get out of bed, and I was begging my.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Mom to just let me die.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I was just begging her. I was like, I can't
do this another moment, and there was absolutely light. That
was the darkest I've ever felt, and begging not to
be here.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And there was light.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And so what you said is so true, is that
being aware that there's light and to keep going and
time and it all may sounds so cliche and right,
but like give yourself the time and give yourself the
grace and the love to know that that darkness will
(10:19):
not last forever.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, and that there is light.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Believe it, Believe it because it's true. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
I mean I often think about my my day, my moment,
my decision. Yeah, I have the date, I know it.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, the same Yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
And I think of I mean, since since that day,
there's been a lot of pain, Yeah, that I've inflicted
on people I love through the process of learning and
being honest. It's such a terrible relationship with honesty. I
was so afraid of it obviously.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Wow, that that speaks to me so much.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Yes, Yeah, but I think back to that day, April eighth,
and I think about the year and change since that day,
and there's been really bad times, but man, there's been
some great moments.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
So I say to you, if you're out there and
you're experiencing a dark day right now, you can't imagine
what might happen a week from now.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, Yeah, you have no idea.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Why not wait around and see it? Yeah, you know,
not to be so blunt. You're going to be dead
for a long time. Yeah, a long time.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
There's not much left, so just.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
Right Imagine what you might experience next Tuesday. Imagine what
might happen. I stood on stage, and this is a
special thing because I'm super lucky and I know that,
but not everybody gets to do this. But I stood
on stage two weeks ago and shot coad be.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Of what must have.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Been six thousand people singing along with me, like asbon Joey.
It's one of the great moments of my life.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I wouldn't have had that.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, one of the greatest moments I've had since is
being on stage with you at the Root party.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I was just so.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Rawly having fun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
You know, I didn't have anything in me, you know,
there I wasn't drinking, and you know in the past
I would and you've seen me. I would have been
drinking and sloppy up there maybe or just not me.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And I was up there and I was living it, and.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It was one of the best moments I've had in
this sobriety.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
And I just felt all of it and loved every
moment of it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And that has to do with the listeners too, like
just seeing all of them out there and supporting you
guys and being there and talking to them like I
was able to have conversation and I.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Don't know, that just might not have happened before.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And so I felt like I was really able to
open up and engage there. And so that's something I
wouldn't have known. It's something I wouldn't have had. And
all these beautiful moments with the kids, I wouldn't have
had any of that.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Man, I'm talking on a small scale and on an
enormous scale.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
I mean, imagine I was a target the other day
by myself. I came outside in the sunset was so beautiful.
Little things, but big things.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Man.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
You know, if you're broken hearted, if you've hurt somebody,
or you've been hurt, you have no idea how much
of a blessing it might have been for you and
for that other person. Two months from now you might
meet the true love of your life or the next
love of your life.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah right, no.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Again, it's super bloody. You're going to be dead for
a long time. Live give it a chance. The darkness
is there, but there will be sunshine, and you have
no idea what it might be that you might experience
next Tuesday.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Keep saying to that, I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Know why, but there'll be a Tuesday and there should
be a Tuesday, and there there are so many memories
to be made that haven't been yet, Yeah, and so
many smiles and laughter and pain and all of it
is a human experience, and I think that that is
what I wasn't living in, you know, and so and
(15:00):
I don't want any of this to sound you know,
I definitely don't want it to feel like I'm glorifying anything,
or that I'm saying my importance is the or my
story is the most important story, none of that, right, Like,
I hope people are still listening in the sense that
this touches you in some way, you know, whether you
(15:23):
know someone who's gone through some of these things or you.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Felt some of it.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
And again, it's such varying degrees, right, none of us
are the same, none of us have had the same experience,
but we.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
All go through something.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And my genuine hope in sharing this is to be
a resource for people, That is my hope. I mean,
I will respond to you if you DM me, if
you email me about any of this, I will be
a resource for you.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
And it's not just you, and I know this is
I'm speaking directly to the person listening right now, You'll
be amazed at how many.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
People in your life want to help you.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Yeah, and how much you can help people, because what
you're going to do is you're going to reach out
and say I need help with this, and they're going
to say, yeah, I feel you. I need help with
that too, and you can do it together. It's amazing.
I want to We're almost wrapped up here, but I
want to say something else too. You mentioned a couple
of moments ago that I took away from Hoffman which
helped me so much.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
You're guilty, but you're not to blame.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
I want to say this to you out there. Whatever
you did, whatever you're hoof the mountain of corpses that
you're standing on, you're guilty. You can admit that, but
you're not to blame. We're all a victim of our
(16:46):
patterns and the things that happened to us. So your
first step today is forgiving yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Have compassion for yourself, true compassion, and like you said,
you can be guilty of it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And accountability is important.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You have to accountability I think with I mean addiction
and the things that you do just life right life
in general. Accountability is important, but don't carry that blame
and shame.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Right, you're guilty, but you're not to blame. So forgive
yourself and get started getting better. Yeah, get started being
get started seeing the sunshine. Man, you know, try, just try.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Know that you are worthy of this life and find
what makes you happy. Yeah, and live that, because again,
you're gonna be dead for a long long time, for.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
A long long time.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I love you so so much.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, I'm glad you're here. Thank you so much for
doing this with me. It's meant a lot.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
You mean a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, and again I want to say my emails, my message,
everything is open. The point of this was to honestly
empower myself a little bit with sharing my story, but
also to be maybe make treatment less scary for someone
who might need to walk through the doors, and to
(18:22):
be a resource for people out there whether you're lonely
and scared and don't know your next step. I definitely
might not have the answer. I probably don't, but I
am absolutely here to be supportive.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
A huge heartfelt thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I promise I'm not going to take this much time
at the end of every episode, but I did want
to say a special thank you to my family and
friends who have.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Picked me up. They've sat with me, walked with me,
kept me going.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I am just forever grateful for what you have invested
in me, So thank you.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It would be too long to name all of you,
but you know who you are.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
A huge thank you to Chris Hockey for being just
an incredible friend and confidante and guiding me through this
interview today. Dave Plante for filming, Zach Halverson and Brett
Blake Moore for producing. Thank you all so much for
putting this together. You know.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Please look for more information on the next.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Episodes we'll be releasing every Thursday, and they'll.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Be on various topics.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
We're going to talk about support systems and what it
looks like to be on the other side and have
emotional conversations with my sister and my family about that,
and then have professionals talk about what that looks like.
Child psychologists will do and ask us anything situation, so
we are going to have a lot to talk about.
(19:52):
Please visit my website here we go podcast dot com
for more information as we build this community together, and
most importantly, if you are in crisis, reach out for
help at nami dot org or call one eight hundred
two seven three eight two five five.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Thanks for listening. Here we go, guys,
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