January 3, 2025 • 41 mins
Patrick Flanagan shares his personal journey from addiction to recovery. Carly learns about his inspiring moments and the lessons along the way.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, friends, and welcome to another episode of Here We
Go with Carlie Zucker. I wanted to be really candid
off the top of this show because I said that
from the first episode that I wanted to be really open,
and I recently heard from a friend who said to me, Oh,
(00:23):
I thought you were not fixed, but I thought you
were all good because you were doing the podcast, and
it was such a reminder to me of and I've
said this on several episodes, that recovery and healing is
not linear. So I will forever and I can only
(00:47):
speak for myself, but I will forever have periods of
time in my life that are difficult. And that doesn't
mean that I'm back to drinking. I've been fortunate not
to relax in the respect of drinking, but my mental
relapses continue to occur.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I still deal with the mental health.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I have more tools, and I know it's not permanent,
and I know that I will come out of it
and that I will move forward. But I mean last
week I had several days where I didn't want to
and physically almost could not get out of bed, where
(01:31):
my anxiety and depression were so heavy that I would
get the kids to school, you know, take care of
what needed to be taken care of, and then I
would come back home from that and I would sleep
almost all day until I picked them up and then
get them to activities. And it wasn't that I was
(01:53):
being lazy or watching shows. Even I wasn't on my
phone scrolling. I was in a deep sleep and then
would be able to again sleep that night. And so
I just I gave myself the grace. I am fortunate.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
People do not.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Get that ability to rest that way when things are difficult.
And so anyway, I just wanted to bring that up
because I don't want it to feel like, Okay, I
did treatment and I started this podcast and I am
golden and everything's perfect, and I think that the honesty
there I just wanted to say is there are still
(02:35):
very difficult moments for me, and there will always be,
but I have again, I have the tools.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel so much better.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
This week, and now I know again it's not permanent,
and I know that it's almost a beautiful thing that
my body's telling me and I can recognize. So I
want to just start the show with that, because I
wanted to be very candid about my recovery and where
I'm at. So yeah, so got that out of the way. Uh,
(03:07):
we have a great guest today, Patrick Flanagan U is
also in recovery and has started so many organizations in
this area, been so candid on his own story, willing
to open up, and has created safe spaces for many
(03:30):
people in our backyard. And so Patrick Flanagan is joining
me right now. Do they they call you the Irishman?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
They do Irishman?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah? Yes, okay, yes, I was told when I opened
the intervention practice they call it the mad Irishman. Okay,
dropped the mad part and just call it the Irishman.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
So yes, mad is in crazy or a little bit yeah,
a little bit of both, crazy, right, yeah, very creative,
successful iconic people have to be a little crazy to
do what they do.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And to do interventions, you got to be a little crazy.
Ye'll be sober, but you gotta be a little crazy,
got to be sober. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So I do want to start out by just talking
about what you do now, kind of your title, more
of the formal stuff just quickly we'll get into the
deep dive of what it is, but who you are,
and then we'll talk about your story.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And your journey.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, well, thank you for having me. All this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I know our friend Stephen Campwell introduced us and he's
an amazing guy and I just think the world him.
So I thank him too for connecting us. Yes he is. Yeah,
so my sober d It's January eighteenth of twenty nineteen.
So next month i'll knock on. What have six years
of sarrive? And I got sober six years ago. And
(04:49):
in the past I was in the financial business in
the Twin Cities and burn that down to.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
The ground with my alcoholism, along with many other things.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
And I wanted just to say how did I wanted
to help people? So I started doing when I got
early in sobriety, I started doing a lot of service work,
a lot of twelve step work, and I was told
I was pretty good at it. And the guy who
did the intervention on me told me, hey, maybe you
should think about being an interventionist and hang your own shingle.
And he helped me tremendously. His name is Bill Tuteberg.
He's seventy seven years old. He still does interventions. He
(05:20):
still works in the field. He lives here six months
and six months down in Boca. But he helped me
kind of build the practice and get my I'm a
Certified Intervention Professional, so I had my CIP designation and
then I just started doing interventions. And I'll never forget
the first one I did. I went down to Davenport,
Iowa to do an intervention and the guy had seven
or eight brothers and sisters and they're all lining up
(05:42):
on the couch of the letters. And he walked in
and he said, I'll go if they don't read the letters.
And so we didn't even read the letters and me
he hopped in the car and I drove them up
to the retreat.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Actually and why is thata? So that was the start
of it.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
And now I do you know, three four interventions a
month for families.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I helped basically help people.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
I help families have hard conversations, especially in Minnesota, especially
in the Midwest and Norwegian sweep it under the rug,
don't talk about things.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
On face, just move forward.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
It'll be fine next month, the next week. You know,
they'll figure it out. But I come in and just say, hey,
you know a lot of people talk about rock Bottom,
and you know, really, for me and for most of us,
rock Bottom is dead or in jail, and so I
help families craft a message of love and concern along
with a plan and some firm boundaries. As an interventionist,
(06:31):
I have a team of amazing women that helped me
run the two women's sober living houses that I own
now called the Brownstone and Cathedral Hill and the Linehouse
in the.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Como Park neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
And they come in when it's a we get hired
to do an intervention on a woman, so I'll bring
in Tara or Clara and they'll help out and kind
of connect with the woman on her recovery and what
that looks like. So a team of amazing women that
work with us that run the women's we have twenty
one women living in early sobriety and the two homes
both with amazing support and actually they just had their
Christmas party last night where they all had dinner together.
(07:05):
It's just a really cool environment. And that's that's what
recovery is all about, is community and whether it's AA
or sover Living or just friends in the community. I
was just at my home group AA meeting is this
morning at seven am right across the street at row Whome,
Mexican restaurant, a men's meeting that I went to. So
still six years later, I'm going to two meetings a
(07:27):
week that I don't miss if I'm in town. I
went out to the retreat this morning and listened to
a guy's fifth step. So I'm pretty much involved in recovery,
either personally or professionally twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Staying connected to that, I find it is crucial for
my recovery because I would say it's not something it's
not a club you ever wish to be a part of,
but it is the most incredible group of people.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Really, I have a c level that we offer each.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Other and the privilege to listen to each other and
respect each other. And nobody's a worse alcoholic or a
worse drug addict.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
You know, you're not comparing.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Just because I drink at night and somebody might drink
all day long doesn't make one of us a better alcoholic,
you know. And I think there's so much acceptance and
so much understanding in those walls, And so if you
are struggling, if you're listening to this, I understand the
(08:37):
idea of feeling scared to take those steps to find
recovery and how much you can feel like that's not me,
that doesn't fit me. But if you're struggling with it
and it's affecting your life, then it is for you,
and those walls and the people in there are meant
(08:57):
to support you and they do, and it's just special place.
So truly, I would suggest, even if you are thinking,
even if it's an inklean in your head that you're like,
I'm having a problem with this, step through those doors.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Meet some people.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
There's a lot of open meetings where you don't even
have to be. They do open and closed a meetings
where you can go if you haven't even I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Your only desire has to be to stop drinking, exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It doesn't mean you have.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
To have a DWI, or you have to have got divorced,
or you have to have got fired.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I mean, we don't need to get to those.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
We don't have qualifications to get in the doors.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Desire to stop drinking, that's it, no matter how where
you're at, and you're.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Beautiful, So I do want to go back and talk
about your journey. So obviously it's up to you how
much you want to share, but I would love to
hear as much as you want to tell us, even
from I don't know where things felt like they started
for you. But to go back, talk about that, talk
(10:02):
about the suffering that you have gone through, talk about
I don't know if you feel like you've had rock
bottoms or not, but to kind of go you know,
there's not necessarily one.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh no, I've got all.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, you get several, and so I'd just love to
have that conversation about your journey.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah. So, I mean my journey started. I was a
drinker my whole since high school. And I went high
school right across the street from here. I've been out,
so I've.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Been a drinker ever since.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
But really, you know, everybody's alcoholism progresses at a different point, right,
It's a progressive and fatal disease. Mine progressed. I'd like
to start my story on my fortieth birthday. My wife
and I threw my wife at the time through a
birthday party for each other. Our birthdays are two days apart,
and about thirty five couples came over, and every single
one of those couples brought me about all jamison because
(10:50):
they knew that's what I drank. So I was kind
of known as a whiskey jamison drinker right in my
little circle, and pretty much in my early forties, my
alcoholism just progressed to a point where all those bottles
were gone, and I kept it going, and I started
drinking in the morning, and I started drinking before work,
and you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday turned into Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Tuesday.
(11:12):
You know, so I just it just progressed. And by
the time I was about forty three, I'm fifty one now,
I was about forty three. My wife at the time
did a kind of my friends and family intervention and
sent me up to Hazeldin.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And I went up to hazeled In.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Just angry, just pissed off at the world, pissed off
at my wife at the time, pissed off at the world.
I was even mad at my own kids at the time,
and they were, you know, early teenagers at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
But anger is such a piece of it.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
All Anger and just like, how dare you and I?
You know, we had this perfect little life from the outside.
It looked perfect from the outside, and he lived in
he Dina and the kids in school, you know, private
school was.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
The old deal.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
But you know I was burning it down with my alcoholism,
and so I went up to hazeled In and I
didn't learn a thing. I stayed there for thirty days.
I got out, pissed off. My wife and kids were
out of town. I came home. I got a DWI
the next day, and I wake up in Hastings Detox,
which has since been closed. It was such a dump,
(12:10):
such a scary place. And I spent Easter weekend in
Hastings Detox. I got in a van that took me
back up to Center City and I went back up
to Hazeledin for another month, and I didn't still was
pissed off, still was mad, didn't realize where I was
at in life. And so then at that time my
wife said, you're not coming home, And so I found
a sober living house in Saint Paul.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It was a great house.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
It's still a great organization, Trinity Sober Living for forty
and over men. But it wasn't my house in a dinah,
and I was mad, and I drank and I got
kicked out, and then I just basically floundered for about
six months, and my sister's couch, my brother's basement, hotels,
things like that. And then I finally lied to everybody
(12:54):
enough in my life that I was sober when I
really wasn't. And I got my wife to agree to
let me come back home in the guest room in
the basement, right, and so I spent. I got back
and it was my son's senior year of high school
and he was captaining the football team, and I wanted
to be part of that. I thought, you know, I
got to begin, I got to be the dad that
I think I am. And I stayed dry for about
(13:15):
eight months. And I say dry not sober, because I
think that there's a big difference. I didn't I didn't
go to meetings, I didn't have a sponsor, I didn't
do anything for my sobriety, and so I was just
an angry drunk and an angry dry drunk. Yeah, And
then by that spring I drank again. My wife did
a professional intervention with the interventionist now who's one of
(13:36):
my best friends still and who's taught me how to
be an interventionist, and he sent me to a treatment
center about an hour outside of Philadelphia. So I woke
up in Detox, about an hour outside of Philadelphia, and
not knowing where I was, and.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I still didn't get the message.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
I basically got divorce papers served to me while I
was out there, and I didn't get the message. I
didn't really work the steps, I didn't start to do much.
And then I thought, well, I'll just get a renting
apartment in Uptown above a liquor store and across the
street from three bars and move into a cool forty
five year old Uptown apartment. And I drank on the
(14:10):
plane right home. And so I went into kind of
a big spiral. We got put on like double secret
approbation at the office. They were they didn't know what
to do with me. And then I proceeded to get
basically burn my life to the ground. I alienated my kids,
(14:30):
I got divorced, I lost my house, I lost my job.
Eventually they were great to me, but eventually they said
no more. Got a second DWI in Uptown and on
a Friday at about four o'clock. And if you get
a DWI Friday at four o'clock, you're spending two nights
in Hennepon County jail.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, you have to spend the whole weekend there.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Right. I see a judge on Monday, Monday, and so
I'm in a Hennipon County jail with about the size
of this room. We're in with about sixteen dudes and
cots detoxing from basically drinking every day, puking in the corner.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Not to make light of this, but the smell in there, well.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I created a lot of the smell.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, So like I just can't imagine the smell it.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Was, but I was, I was. I was puking in
the guy, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
So they were all looking at me like what is this?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
And I'll never forget I I rang a little buzzer
and I said to the guy the guard, I said,
you know, my lawyer said I should get out by now.
And the guard came and looked at me and he said,
I don't give it what your lawyer says. You'll get
out when that paperwork hits my desk and that and
just boom, your freedom right gone. And so I got out.
(15:40):
And now my lawyer said, all right, that's your second
d WI. He goes, I can get the charges dropped
down a little bit. But he said, you get a
third man, you're you're you're gonna see some real time.
And he said I think you should go back to treatment.
So I went back to the retreat, and why is
that on this time? And I started to listen a
little bit, and I started to realize where I was
(16:00):
at in life, and that my kids wanted nothing to
do with me, and I was divorced, and my family
was just, you know, it's taking a big step backwards.
But I got called up into the office and they said,
we really think you should think about sober living after
this and not go back to that apartment. And I said,
no way, man, I'm way too cool, way too important.
I got kids, I got a job, I got this
(16:21):
cool apartment in uptown, right.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I can't do that.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
And she said her name was Diana. I remember her.
And she said that's fine, I understand. And she said,
you're going to lose everything that you just said was
more important than your sobriety.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I go back to that apartment.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I get out of the retreat, I go back to
the apartment, I drop my bags off, and I walked
straight down to Bryant Lake Bowl and I start drinking
that morning.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So I'm going to rehab three times now.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And I drank within hours, not days, not wee hours
because I didn't have a plan. I was still angry.
I hadn't surrendered, right, And that's a big concept for me,
is not fighting but surrendering to this thing.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
So I went on about another year.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Span where I I really I got uninvited to my
daughter's high school graduation because I was still drinking. And yeah,
that was hard straight a student.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And I believe that we can't dwell on those things.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But I can imagine how heavy that.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Is on your own with your children years la oh
forever you know, and again living it, living in it
is one thing, but.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You will forever have those feelings, I'm sure. And think
about those moments that she.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Had to send me a text saying Dad, I don't
want you to come to my graduation. I don't want
to come to the grad parties. I don't want you
anywhere near me.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And when it comes to our children, who you deeply
want to protect and love, I think, and this is
such a tricky disease where I heard from so many people,
why can't you just stop for your kids?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Or do you not love them enough to stop for them?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Oh that I wish, I wish I said that to
myself ten a thousand times more than that one person did.
And I think that is such a heartbreaking thing, because
I do I want to be I wanted to be that,
(18:39):
you know, but it was not. I needed professional help.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Oh yeah, I mean I needed professional help. I needed
the rooms of AA, I needed other people's experience how
they did it. I mean yeah. I mean when I
had that professional intervention done the high school graduation, and
then when I had the professional intervention done, my son
I said he was getting ready to go to college
and I said, Charlie, I really want to move you
(19:04):
into college. I want to be that dad, help me
in the dorms and everything. And he said, Dad, I
just want you to go back to rehab. I don't
want you anywhere part of it. And he said, in fact,
if you don't go to rehab, I don't want you
in my life, you know. And I did. I looked
mystery in the eyes. I said, I'll think about it.
(19:26):
I'll think about booze alcohol versus a relationship with my son.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That's how deeply this can manifest itself.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Oh yeah, was deep.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So continue from there.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
So I went back, so I but I floundered for
another year.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I got an apartment in downtown Minneapolis, right by Trader
Joe's there on Washington Avenue, and I was the guy
smoking a cigarette outside of Trade Joe's at seven forty
five in the morning, waiting for the liquor shore to
open up at eight. And in January seventeenth, I went
across it used to be closing out the old spaghetti factory,
and there's a great across street from my place, and
(20:13):
I talked the bartender and give me a big craft
of white wine at the end of the night to
bring back to.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
My apartment, and I brought it back.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I woke up the next morning and I just something happened,
and I snapped, and I said, I can't do this anymore.
I'm gonna die. And I called my sponsor, Paul, who
was an amazing guy, thirty plus years sober. I just saw
him this morning. He's one of my best friends now.
But at the time I called Paul and I said, Paul,
I don't want to tell my kids I'm going back
to inpatient treatment for the fourth time. And Paul said,
(20:44):
that's fine, Flanting, and I understand where you're at. I
get it, he said, but I'm going to be telling
your kids when your funeral is pretty soon. He was right,
I couldn't hurt you.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It becomes life or death.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Had a fib you know, I had a FIBs.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
So either my heart or I was going to walk
across the street and walk into the wrong bart the
wrong time, or do the wrong thing and down tell
me whatever I mean. I was. I was a train
wreck and I was going to end up dead or
in jail with in weeks. And for some reason, when
Paul told me that, it hit me between the eyes
and I said all right. So I went back to
the retreat. I called out there. I said, can I
(21:20):
come back? They said yes. I got in the office
and five minutes into the into the office, I said,
put my name down, and that's sober looking less like I.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
My way ain't working.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I'm back in rehab. My way isn't working. And that's
what I came to believe, is that my way wasn't working.
And I just started to listen. And they came to
me about twenty days into my stay and they said,
we got a spot for you in a sober house,
but you got to stay here in extra ten nights
because the bed won't be open till then. And I
remember just sitting in my chair looking up and going, fine, great,
whatever you guys tell me to do. I got nothing.
(21:52):
And they said they called my son, who is now
he's a freshman at Saint Thomas over in Saint Paul,
and they said something a little different about your dad.
You might want to come see him. And Charlie, he
came out and and he said, what's the difference this time? Dad?
Like where you're back?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
And rehbit pissed off.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Deservedly, so right, and I looked him in the eyes
and I said, Charlie, I was afraid I was going
to die. And it was the first time I got honest,
I guess, and it was about getting honest. And then
he gave me a hug and he went back to school.
And I didn't see my kids for six months, didn't
talk to him, didn't didn't reach out, just went to meetings.
(22:31):
I got a job that summer at Soapi Joe's car
wash on washing cars, you know, going from a big
deal financial advisor and he died on a big deal
in my head to washing cars and get it's over.
And I did that, and eventually I got a text
from my son, Hey, you want to go play nine?
I was of golf. Did that Oh when you got
(22:53):
that text?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That feeling?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah? And I showed up fifteen minutes early, and I
asked a ton of questions about himself, and I stop
bragging about you.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Know, you know I got six months of variety.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
You can so.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
You didn't have to.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Tell he.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Could experience it with you.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
There's a few things about your story that I really
wanted to point out to people listening. You do not
necessarily go into a treatment center one time and walk out.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Quote unquote, fixed or done. It may take you four.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I've met people who've been in eleven. You've probably met
people who've been in a dozen or more.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's do not give up.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Do do.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Not give yourself any sort of I don't know, like
I don't even know how to word it, but just
understand that if you're in, if you do relapse after
the first one, it does not mean that your story
is done.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
There No, please keep going.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And I do believe that there is something to be
said about finding the right And you could tell me
what your opinion is on this finding the right treatment
center for you, because for me, when I went a
big such a big piece of why I was drinking
was mental health issues and things traumas and things that
(24:32):
I had and in my past experiences that I had
never dealt with and it ignored.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
But they were all there, and I.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Was coping through alcohol because I didn't want to feel
and so I needed to find a place that focused
on mental health and tied the two together. And it
wasn't just oh, here's how you stopped drinking, it was
why are you drinking?
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Drink?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, and so for me and I again, I don't
what your opinion is on that, but finding the right
treatment center can.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Be very important.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, And that's a big part of that.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
My job as an interventionist is I work with probably
ten to twelve of the best treatment centers in the country,
and a lot of them focus on mental health as
well as the substances, right, and we have to do
that in order to figure out what we're drinking at
Sometimes there are treatment centers that just focus on the
drinking and just focus on AA, like the retreat and
(25:27):
that was a big thing for me, is the surrender
and the AA and the community which I didn't have,
and I didn't I didn't really want to be part of,
but I knew I needed it, and eventually I wanted it.
But yeah, the mental health side is huge. Every single
family that caused me says, I'm not sure if they're
an alcoholic or they just have really bad depression or anxiety.
And now I always say, all right, well, let's get
(25:48):
the booze out of the system for thirty or sixty
or ninety days, and then we can address the mental
health side, the anxiety and depression. And if we can
do that all on the same location and then the
same stay, awesome, all the better.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
So you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
More and more treatment centers are focusing on the why
what are we drinking at than just the detox from
the drinking or or the AA.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
But AA was huge for me the mental health side.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
I went to therapy once a week for a year
and every other week for the second year because the
therapy for me was big for my relationships, my relationships
with my kids, my ex, my family, everything else. And
then AA was big for me for sobriety. But absolutely
the mental health it's on every family's topic conversation from
day one, and some treatment centers are great at doing it.
(26:37):
So a lot of them say they do it and don't.
So doing your research, I'm glad you found a good
one because they Yeah, they do a great job down there.
So yeah, it's hugely important. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And again so it's it's doing.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Meds too, and if you need meds afterwards the depression
and anxiety, man's great, that's not that's that's that's why
they're there, right and.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
If and I always I just believe like it's not
a one size fits all. We are all so different
and to find the right team, the right support, the
right place is crucial. And I had I don't know
if you know Pam Landhard.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I know Pam so she was on.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
And this is partly why I want to do the podcast,
is create resources for people because I would have never
when I went to treatment.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I didn't I went into MPATH for three days before
because it was a crisis situation before I even went
to a facility, and.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I had I didn't know what to look for. I had,
I would not even know the questions to ask.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So I do hope that this creates resources for people
to reach out to to navigate those waters because they're difficult.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Yeah, they're not only difficult where you're going to go
about it. But I always talk to families about you know,
let's say it's a thirty day program, what are you
doing on day thirty one? Like that's just important, if
not more than what you do on day one, because
if you're going to go back to the environment that
you were drinking in and it wasn't a healthy support
of environment, and you go back to the same habits
and you say, oh, I'm just gonna go to the
(28:13):
country club and play golf with you my buddies and
drink club soda, it's not gonna work for a while
like that. It didn't work for me. So what you're
doing on day thirty one, whether it's IP intensive outpatient
or some sort of aftercare plan or therapy or so
we're living, that's just hugely important. It's not a thirty
day fix. It's I'd lived and structured living for seven.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Months, Patrick Flanagin, you just did the most brilliant transition
for me, because this is what I wanted to talk about.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Next is the after you know, So for me, I
did thirty four days at Botaire.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I almost left on thirty three, I was ready to
go to All Points North in Colorado, which you've been to,
you visited, And because I knew at the end of
my stretch at Bautaire, I had not addressed.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
A lot of the trauma.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So I thought, if I go back out in the world,
I'm still missing a big piece of healing or coping
skills or what I need to address. So anyway, so
that's why I chose to go to All Points North. However,
there was going to be like thirty six hours between
me leaving Boutaire and going to All Points North, and
(29:30):
I remember them saying stay, like, just stay another day
here you can. You are so fortunate that your insurance
cover which what a privilege that my insurance.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Would cover that.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And they got my sister on the phone and they
pulled me into a room. They got my sister on
the phone and they.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Said, do you trust her? I was like, of course,
with my life, and they said, she's asking you to
stay one day.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Just stay. And again it's because if.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
You have that gap, I mean, you start you could
start drinking six an hour after you leave treatment.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I did, and I think that so for me, again,
not everybody gets that privilege.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I recognize that, but again I was going to another
center and how important it was for me not to
have the gap, and they.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Looked out for me, and I listened.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
And just like you said, it's hard to put the
ego aside sometimes and say they know better than I do,
But in those moments they.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Did, and.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
So I listened.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I listened to the people giving me the advice, and
I did not have the gap going to Colorado, and
I think I think that made a world of difference
for me. But when we're talking about this aftercare, I
when people are the success rate of people staying sober
is so low, it's terrible, tragically low. And I think
(31:09):
one of those pieces is the after piece. When we
send people out in the world, that's when it gets tough.
You're in treatment, you're in this like lovely, secure environment
and even though it's difficult, it's still it's sober.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
You're not on your phone like my phone was. I didn't,
so I got to live in this beautiful bubble of
healing and education and help. But when you leave, what
do you do? And so I think I know what
from the website that I've seen, from the research I've
done on your work. That is a big piece of
what you do. Right.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Is this absolutely what is after? What is after? I mean,
sober living saved my life. I live four blocks away
from the sober house I lived in six years ago.
I walk my dog by it every day. It reminds
me of where I came from, right and where I
was at. But sober living definitely saved my life. Being
in a house with twelve other dudes at age forty
five was not on my radar right, but I knew
(32:10):
I needed it. I needed the community. I needed to surrender.
I needed to humble myself. I needed to share a
room with somebody. I needed to help give him a
ride to work. I needed to get that job at
Sophie Joe's. Like all the whole process, I look back
at it now, is the best thing I ever did
for myself was my choice to finally go to sober living.
I had it kind of beaten over my head and
proved myself wrong three times. But yeah, and I went
(32:33):
door to door that was their rule, and it just
it saved my life. And so yeah, I became really
passionate about that. And so I was about nine months sober,
and I found this house in Como Park neighborhood, and
I went in and I toured it and it was
just seventy two hundred square foot beautiful mansion for sale
with eight bedrooms and nine bathrooms, two full kitchens, and
(32:54):
I just said, this would be a perfect sober house.
And everybody thought I was crazy. I was only nine
months sober, and most people don't jump into sober.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Living that early, like, let's wait, yeah, let's wait till
you get at.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Least a year's sobriety. And I took my girlfriend and
through it at the time, and she said, well, you
got to make this a women's house because it's got
nine bathrooms.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
And we kind of joked about it, but she was right.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
And I went to my business partner Tom and I said, Tom,
what do you think about doing a women's house. And
he's like, yeah, whatever you want to do, I'm supportive
of it. That makes sense to me. And he said,
you know, I brought my daughter to a lot of
really sober houses, right, and the beautiful fast forward. Now
his daughter works for us. It's seven years sober and
he's killing it. So we turned the Linehouse into a
(33:39):
women's recovery house. Sixteen women in early recovery. A beautiful community.
It's a beautiful hou it's called the Linehouse. It's got
two stone lions out in front, and it's in a
great neighborhood and it's been it's been just a blessing
and we love our work. And then we opened up
the Brownstone two years ago, which is a little different model.
It's five private rooms with recovery coaching, all meals, food,
(34:03):
living staff. But then another cool component is we have
a family recovery coach. So that's the other part of
the big recovery processes is the family getting any help.
So when a woman moves into the Brownstone, we have
a dedicated coach that's coaching her family. Whoever that is
a husband, kids, parents, you know, they're getting coaching and
(34:24):
that's required if your if your loved ones living there.
We don't let them skate on it because we know
the family needs as much.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Because they need help for themselves, like in the healing
process and then to create the relationship.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yes, yeah, yeah, so it's a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm I'm truly I cannot say, I genuinely mean, I'm
so impressed by your work. I'm impressed with your story
what you've done with it, because I think that's the
biggest gift we can try to.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Give is to be of service service.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, and that's what you're doing. Is there an opportunity
if somebody out there is listening and maybe they're in
that after step or they're looking for a place. Is
there a great resource for them in regards to what
you do. Website, emails that they could.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Reach out to.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Yeah, so the website, the Irishman and associates for intervention work.
And if you if you just think you might need
to talk to somebody about your loved one, call I
don't charge right away. I just I give that free
hour to just walk through the situation. Maybe it's an
easy piece of advice. Maybe it's the intervention doesn't happen
until next month or next year. But call me. My
(35:41):
phone's always on, I'm always available. So that's what I
encourage people to do. If you have a love one
struggle and call me, figure out what the options are,
and it's a it's an easy conversation for me to
have and I can share my experience and what the
options are for the family. And then from the sober
living side, Linehouse same and the Brownstone Linehouse Brownstone dot com.
(36:03):
But the bigger resource for the community Minnesota Association of
Sober Homes MASH. You can google that. They have a website.
All the different sober living houses are listed. If you're
a member of MASH, that means you've been inspected, that
means you're a quality provider. There are four thousand sober
living beds in the Twin Cities, about sixteen hundred seventeen
(36:23):
hundred of those are MASH affiliated houses. I would encourage
people to look at the MASH website and determine that
and go with a MASH qualified house just because I'm
on the board of MASH.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
But we've done some everything's not perfect, you know, sober living.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
There's let's just say there's twelve guys in there in
sober house, there's gonna be two or three that don't
want to be there, that aren't doing the deal. I'm
not gonna lie to anyone like it's not the greatest,
But you can find those two or three people that
really want sobriety, and you're gonna stick with them. And
the house is associated with MASH, has been inspected and
as an owner and you have rights as a tenant,
(37:00):
and so go to the mash website.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Is there anything else that we didn't touch on? I mean,
I'm sure we could talk for hours, but is there
anything else you can think of? And I wanted to
end with one question. So if there's anything that I
haven't asked you that you wanted to share, please let
me know.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Well, I will just share that.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Four years later, I was in the front row.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Of my daughter's college graduation.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Oh, I wish you could see us in here.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
So that was amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, those are memories you're making now that sobriety has
given you that you have taken.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Yeah, and just a couple months ago, I flew down
to Chicago and I took her to Pearl Jam. I
really feel oh the faithful.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I just watched Pearl Jam twenty pever. I'm upset. We
could do we could do a whole podcast on Pearl Jam.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Well, I think I get out of town Pearl Jam.
I'm a big Pearl Jam fan and Metallica fan, but
I so yeah. I mean, my relationship with my daughter
is amazing. My son, he graduated from Saint Thomas. I
was about two or three years sober, and he said, Dad,
can I just come and live with you for like
a month until I kind of get situated and figure
out what I'm going to do after graduation. He lived
(38:24):
with me for a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Wow, And think I think three four years earlier never
would have happened, right, And you gave him a safe,
clearly fun or at least safe, secure, responsible environment that
he wanted to stay.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, and now he lives in Denver and they were
all in my house for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
That's amazing. Three kids, So what a life.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah, it's truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And as you said before, humbling yourself in these omens
reminds you truly what's important and how little you need
to be happy. The happiest I was for a long
time was in the treatment center and I was sharing
a room with someone. I didn't have my phone, I
(39:18):
didn't have designer handback, you know, all the material things
that sometimes we can put way way too much importance on.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And this more simple that our life can be.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Sometimes and humbling yourself can make it make yourself way
more happy.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, And I just I can't stress that enough.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So do not be afraid to take that step if
you feel like it is one you need even to
explore it, because life, as you just said it with
all of your for examples, can be real beautiful when
you're working through it, when you're in recovery.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Yeah. I used to go to meetings early on and
I hear the guys say, you know, I'm a grateful
I'll introduce themselves as a grateful alcoholicy.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I was like, what the hell are you talking about.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
I just burned my life to the ground. What do
I have to be grateful about. I'm absolutely a grateful
alcoholic at this point.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, through all through that suffering creates a really beautiful life.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Well, I'm going to end it there because this was
really awesome. I loved this conversation. Thank you for having me,
Patrick Flanagan. You are a gem. You're a national treasure
in Minnesota and we are lucky to have you. And
thank you for the work that you do. Truly, Thank
you huge. Thank you as always to Brett Blakemore, thank you.
(40:47):
I just love you man. Thanks for producing these episodes.
It means a lot to me. And that is it
for Here we go this week. Catch up on all
the episodes.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
The first four episodes of The Here we Go podcast
tells me my story, and I would I really want
you guys to stick with us, because I think we're
gonna learn a lot together, and we're gonna grow. And
even though we have those hard days, those hard weeks,
those hard minutes like I did last week, we're gonna
keep going.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
So Here we Go.
Hi, friends, and welcome to another episode of Here We
Go with Carlie Zucker. I wanted to be really candid
off the top of this show because I said that
from the first episode that I wanted to be really open,
and I recently heard from a friend who said to me, Oh,
(00:23):
I thought you were not fixed, but I thought you
were all good because you were doing the podcast, and
it was such a reminder to me of and I've
said this on several episodes, that recovery and healing is
not linear. So I will forever and I can only
(00:47):
speak for myself, but I will forever have periods of
time in my life that are difficult. And that doesn't
mean that I'm back to drinking. I've been fortunate not
to relax in the respect of drinking, but my mental
relapses continue to occur.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I still deal with the mental health.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I have more tools, and I know it's not permanent,
and I know that I will come out of it
and that I will move forward. But I mean last
week I had several days where I didn't want to
and physically almost could not get out of bed, where
(01:31):
my anxiety and depression were so heavy that I would
get the kids to school, you know, take care of
what needed to be taken care of, and then I
would come back home from that and I would sleep
almost all day until I picked them up and then
get them to activities. And it wasn't that I was
(01:53):
being lazy or watching shows. Even I wasn't on my
phone scrolling. I was in a deep sleep and then
would be able to again sleep that night. And so
I just I gave myself the grace. I am fortunate.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
People do not.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Get that ability to rest that way when things are difficult.
And so anyway, I just wanted to bring that up
because I don't want it to feel like, Okay, I
did treatment and I started this podcast and I am
golden and everything's perfect, and I think that the honesty
there I just wanted to say is there are still
(02:35):
very difficult moments for me, and there will always be,
but I have again, I have the tools.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel so much better.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
This week, and now I know again it's not permanent,
and I know that it's almost a beautiful thing that
my body's telling me and I can recognize. So I
want to just start the show with that, because I
wanted to be very candid about my recovery and where
I'm at. So yeah, so got that out of the way. Uh,
(03:07):
we have a great guest today, Patrick Flanagan U is
also in recovery and has started so many organizations in
this area, been so candid on his own story, willing
to open up, and has created safe spaces for many
(03:30):
people in our backyard. And so Patrick Flanagan is joining
me right now. Do they they call you the Irishman?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
They do Irishman?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah? Yes, okay, yes, I was told when I opened
the intervention practice they call it the mad Irishman. Okay,
dropped the mad part and just call it the Irishman.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
So yes, mad is in crazy or a little bit yeah,
a little bit of both, crazy, right, yeah, very creative,
successful iconic people have to be a little crazy to
do what they do.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And to do interventions, you got to be a little crazy.
Ye'll be sober, but you gotta be a little crazy,
got to be sober. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So I do want to start out by just talking
about what you do now, kind of your title, more
of the formal stuff just quickly we'll get into the
deep dive of what it is, but who you are,
and then we'll talk about your story.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And your journey.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, well, thank you for having me. All this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I know our friend Stephen Campwell introduced us and he's
an amazing guy and I just think the world him.
So I thank him too for connecting us. Yes he is. Yeah,
so my sober d It's January eighteenth of twenty nineteen.
So next month i'll knock on. What have six years
of sarrive? And I got sober six years ago. And
(04:49):
in the past I was in the financial business in
the Twin Cities and burn that down to.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
The ground with my alcoholism, along with many other things.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
And I wanted just to say how did I wanted
to help people? So I started doing when I got
early in sobriety, I started doing a lot of service work,
a lot of twelve step work, and I was told
I was pretty good at it. And the guy who
did the intervention on me told me, hey, maybe you
should think about being an interventionist and hang your own shingle.
And he helped me tremendously. His name is Bill Tuteberg.
He's seventy seven years old. He still does interventions. He
(05:20):
still works in the field. He lives here six months
and six months down in Boca. But he helped me
kind of build the practice and get my I'm a
Certified Intervention Professional, so I had my CIP designation and
then I just started doing interventions. And I'll never forget
the first one I did. I went down to Davenport,
Iowa to do an intervention and the guy had seven
or eight brothers and sisters and they're all lining up
(05:42):
on the couch of the letters. And he walked in
and he said, I'll go if they don't read the letters.
And so we didn't even read the letters and me
he hopped in the car and I drove them up
to the retreat.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Actually and why is thata? So that was the start
of it.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
And now I do you know, three four interventions a
month for families.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I helped basically help people.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
I help families have hard conversations, especially in Minnesota, especially
in the Midwest and Norwegian sweep it under the rug,
don't talk about things.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
On face, just move forward.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
It'll be fine next month, the next week. You know,
they'll figure it out. But I come in and just say, hey,
you know a lot of people talk about rock Bottom,
and you know, really, for me and for most of us,
rock Bottom is dead or in jail, and so I
help families craft a message of love and concern along
with a plan and some firm boundaries. As an interventionist,
(06:31):
I have a team of amazing women that helped me
run the two women's sober living houses that I own
now called the Brownstone and Cathedral Hill and the Linehouse
in the.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Como Park neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
And they come in when it's a we get hired
to do an intervention on a woman, so I'll bring
in Tara or Clara and they'll help out and kind
of connect with the woman on her recovery and what
that looks like. So a team of amazing women that
work with us that run the women's we have twenty
one women living in early sobriety and the two homes
both with amazing support and actually they just had their
Christmas party last night where they all had dinner together.
(07:05):
It's just a really cool environment. And that's that's what
recovery is all about, is community and whether it's AA
or sover Living or just friends in the community. I
was just at my home group AA meeting is this
morning at seven am right across the street at row Whome,
Mexican restaurant, a men's meeting that I went to. So
still six years later, I'm going to two meetings a
(07:27):
week that I don't miss if I'm in town. I
went out to the retreat this morning and listened to
a guy's fifth step. So I'm pretty much involved in recovery,
either personally or professionally twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Staying connected to that, I find it is crucial for
my recovery because I would say it's not something it's
not a club you ever wish to be a part of,
but it is the most incredible group of people.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Really, I have a c level that we offer each.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Other and the privilege to listen to each other and
respect each other. And nobody's a worse alcoholic or a
worse drug addict.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
You know, you're not comparing.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Just because I drink at night and somebody might drink
all day long doesn't make one of us a better alcoholic,
you know. And I think there's so much acceptance and
so much understanding in those walls, And so if you
are struggling, if you're listening to this, I understand the
(08:37):
idea of feeling scared to take those steps to find
recovery and how much you can feel like that's not me,
that doesn't fit me. But if you're struggling with it
and it's affecting your life, then it is for you,
and those walls and the people in there are meant
(08:57):
to support you and they do, and it's just special place.
So truly, I would suggest, even if you are thinking,
even if it's an inklean in your head that you're like,
I'm having a problem with this, step through those doors.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Meet some people.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
There's a lot of open meetings where you don't even
have to be. They do open and closed a meetings
where you can go if you haven't even I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Your only desire has to be to stop drinking, exactly.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It doesn't mean you have.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
To have a DWI, or you have to have got divorced,
or you have to have got fired.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I mean, we don't need to get to those.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
We don't have qualifications to get in the doors.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Desire to stop drinking, that's it, no matter how where
you're at, and you're.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Beautiful, So I do want to go back and talk
about your journey. So obviously it's up to you how
much you want to share, but I would love to
hear as much as you want to tell us, even
from I don't know where things felt like they started
for you. But to go back, talk about that, talk
(10:02):
about the suffering that you have gone through, talk about
I don't know if you feel like you've had rock
bottoms or not, but to kind of go you know,
there's not necessarily one.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh no, I've got all.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, you get several, and so I'd just love to
have that conversation about your journey.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yeah. So, I mean my journey started. I was a
drinker my whole since high school. And I went high
school right across the street from here. I've been out,
so I've.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Been a drinker ever since.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
But really, you know, everybody's alcoholism progresses at a different point, right,
It's a progressive and fatal disease. Mine progressed. I'd like
to start my story on my fortieth birthday. My wife
and I threw my wife at the time through a
birthday party for each other. Our birthdays are two days apart,
and about thirty five couples came over, and every single
one of those couples brought me about all jamison because
(10:50):
they knew that's what I drank. So I was kind
of known as a whiskey jamison drinker right in my
little circle, and pretty much in my early forties, my
alcoholism just progressed to a point where all those bottles
were gone, and I kept it going, and I started
drinking in the morning, and I started drinking before work,
and you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday turned into Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Tuesday.
(11:12):
You know, so I just it just progressed. And by
the time I was about forty three, I'm fifty one now,
I was about forty three. My wife at the time
did a kind of my friends and family intervention and
sent me up to Hazeldin.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And I went up to hazeled In.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Just angry, just pissed off at the world, pissed off
at my wife at the time, pissed off at the world.
I was even mad at my own kids at the time,
and they were, you know, early teenagers at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
But anger is such a piece of it.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
All Anger and just like, how dare you and I?
You know, we had this perfect little life from the outside.
It looked perfect from the outside, and he lived in
he Dina and the kids in school, you know, private
school was.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
The old deal.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
But you know I was burning it down with my alcoholism,
and so I went up to hazeled In and I
didn't learn a thing. I stayed there for thirty days.
I got out, pissed off. My wife and kids were
out of town. I came home. I got a DWI
the next day, and I wake up in Hastings Detox,
which has since been closed. It was such a dump,
(12:10):
such a scary place. And I spent Easter weekend in
Hastings Detox. I got in a van that took me
back up to Center City and I went back up
to Hazeledin for another month, and I didn't still was
pissed off, still was mad, didn't realize where I was
at in life. And so then at that time my
wife said, you're not coming home, And so I found
a sober living house in Saint Paul.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It was a great house.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
It's still a great organization, Trinity Sober Living for forty
and over men. But it wasn't my house in a dinah,
and I was mad, and I drank and I got
kicked out, and then I just basically floundered for about
six months, and my sister's couch, my brother's basement, hotels,
things like that. And then I finally lied to everybody
(12:54):
enough in my life that I was sober when I
really wasn't. And I got my wife to agree to
let me come back home in the guest room in
the basement, right, and so I spent. I got back
and it was my son's senior year of high school
and he was captaining the football team, and I wanted
to be part of that. I thought, you know, I
got to begin, I got to be the dad that
I think I am. And I stayed dry for about
(13:15):
eight months. And I say dry not sober, because I
think that there's a big difference. I didn't I didn't
go to meetings, I didn't have a sponsor, I didn't
do anything for my sobriety, and so I was just
an angry drunk and an angry dry drunk. Yeah, And
then by that spring I drank again. My wife did
a professional intervention with the interventionist now who's one of
(13:36):
my best friends still and who's taught me how to
be an interventionist, and he sent me to a treatment
center about an hour outside of Philadelphia. So I woke
up in Detox, about an hour outside of Philadelphia, and
not knowing where I was, and.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I still didn't get the message.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
I basically got divorce papers served to me while I
was out there, and I didn't get the message. I
didn't really work the steps, I didn't start to do much.
And then I thought, well, I'll just get a renting
apartment in Uptown above a liquor store and across the
street from three bars and move into a cool forty
five year old Uptown apartment. And I drank on the
(14:10):
plane right home. And so I went into kind of
a big spiral. We got put on like double secret
approbation at the office. They were they didn't know what
to do with me. And then I proceeded to get
basically burn my life to the ground. I alienated my kids,
(14:30):
I got divorced, I lost my house, I lost my job.
Eventually they were great to me, but eventually they said
no more. Got a second DWI in Uptown and on
a Friday at about four o'clock. And if you get
a DWI Friday at four o'clock, you're spending two nights
in Hennepon County jail.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, you have to spend the whole weekend there.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Right. I see a judge on Monday, Monday, and so
I'm in a Hennipon County jail with about the size
of this room. We're in with about sixteen dudes and
cots detoxing from basically drinking every day, puking in the corner.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Not to make light of this, but the smell in there, well.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I created a lot of the smell.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, So like I just can't imagine the smell it.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Was, but I was, I was. I was puking in
the guy, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
So they were all looking at me like what is this?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
And I'll never forget I I rang a little buzzer
and I said to the guy the guard, I said,
you know, my lawyer said I should get out by now.
And the guard came and looked at me and he said,
I don't give it what your lawyer says. You'll get
out when that paperwork hits my desk and that and
just boom, your freedom right gone. And so I got out.
(15:40):
And now my lawyer said, all right, that's your second
d WI. He goes, I can get the charges dropped
down a little bit. But he said, you get a
third man, you're you're you're gonna see some real time.
And he said I think you should go back to treatment.
So I went back to the retreat, and why is
that on this time? And I started to listen a
little bit, and I started to realize where I was
(16:00):
at in life, and that my kids wanted nothing to
do with me, and I was divorced, and my family
was just, you know, it's taking a big step backwards.
But I got called up into the office and they said,
we really think you should think about sober living after
this and not go back to that apartment. And I said,
no way, man, I'm way too cool, way too important.
I got kids, I got a job, I got this
(16:21):
cool apartment in uptown, right.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I can't do that.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
And she said her name was Diana. I remember her.
And she said that's fine, I understand. And she said,
you're going to lose everything that you just said was
more important than your sobriety.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I go back to that apartment.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I get out of the retreat, I go back to
the apartment, I drop my bags off, and I walked
straight down to Bryant Lake Bowl and I start drinking
that morning.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So I'm going to rehab three times now.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And I drank within hours, not days, not wee hours
because I didn't have a plan. I was still angry.
I hadn't surrendered, right, And that's a big concept for me,
is not fighting but surrendering to this thing.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
So I went on about another year.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Span where I I really I got uninvited to my
daughter's high school graduation because I was still drinking. And yeah,
that was hard straight a student.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And I believe that we can't dwell on those things.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But I can imagine how heavy that.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Is on your own with your children years la oh
forever you know, and again living it, living in it
is one thing, but.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You will forever have those feelings, I'm sure. And think
about those moments that she.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Had to send me a text saying Dad, I don't
want you to come to my graduation. I don't want
to come to the grad parties. I don't want you
anywhere near me.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And when it comes to our children, who you deeply
want to protect and love, I think, and this is
such a tricky disease where I heard from so many people,
why can't you just stop for your kids?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Or do you not love them enough to stop for them?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Oh that I wish, I wish I said that to
myself ten a thousand times more than that one person did.
And I think that is such a heartbreaking thing, because
I do I want to be I wanted to be that,
(18:39):
you know, but it was not. I needed professional help.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Oh yeah, I mean I needed professional help. I needed
the rooms of AA, I needed other people's experience how
they did it. I mean yeah. I mean when I
had that professional intervention done the high school graduation, and
then when I had the professional intervention done, my son
I said he was getting ready to go to college
and I said, Charlie, I really want to move you
(19:04):
into college. I want to be that dad, help me
in the dorms and everything. And he said, Dad, I
just want you to go back to rehab. I don't
want you anywhere part of it. And he said, in fact,
if you don't go to rehab, I don't want you
in my life, you know. And I did. I looked
mystery in the eyes. I said, I'll think about it.
(19:26):
I'll think about booze alcohol versus a relationship with my son.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That's how deeply this can manifest itself.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Oh yeah, was deep.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So continue from there.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
So I went back, so I but I floundered for
another year.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I got an apartment in downtown Minneapolis, right by Trader
Joe's there on Washington Avenue, and I was the guy
smoking a cigarette outside of Trade Joe's at seven forty
five in the morning, waiting for the liquor shore to
open up at eight. And in January seventeenth, I went
across it used to be closing out the old spaghetti factory,
and there's a great across street from my place, and
(20:13):
I talked the bartender and give me a big craft
of white wine at the end of the night to
bring back to.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
My apartment, and I brought it back.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I woke up the next morning and I just something happened,
and I snapped, and I said, I can't do this anymore.
I'm gonna die. And I called my sponsor, Paul, who
was an amazing guy, thirty plus years sober. I just saw
him this morning. He's one of my best friends now.
But at the time I called Paul and I said, Paul,
I don't want to tell my kids I'm going back
to inpatient treatment for the fourth time. And Paul said,
(20:44):
that's fine, Flanting, and I understand where you're at. I
get it, he said, but I'm going to be telling
your kids when your funeral is pretty soon. He was right,
I couldn't hurt you.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It becomes life or death.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Had a fib you know, I had a FIBs.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
So either my heart or I was going to walk
across the street and walk into the wrong bart the
wrong time, or do the wrong thing and down tell
me whatever I mean. I was. I was a train
wreck and I was going to end up dead or
in jail with in weeks. And for some reason, when
Paul told me that, it hit me between the eyes
and I said all right. So I went back to
the retreat. I called out there. I said, can I
(21:20):
come back? They said yes. I got in the office
and five minutes into the into the office, I said,
put my name down, and that's sober looking less like I.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
My way ain't working.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I'm back in rehab. My way isn't working. And that's
what I came to believe, is that my way wasn't working.
And I just started to listen. And they came to
me about twenty days into my stay and they said,
we got a spot for you in a sober house,
but you got to stay here in extra ten nights
because the bed won't be open till then. And I
remember just sitting in my chair looking up and going, fine, great,
whatever you guys tell me to do. I got nothing.
(21:52):
And they said they called my son, who is now
he's a freshman at Saint Thomas over in Saint Paul,
and they said something a little different about your dad.
You might want to come see him. And Charlie, he
came out and and he said, what's the difference this time? Dad?
Like where you're back?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
And rehbit pissed off.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Deservedly, so right, and I looked him in the eyes
and I said, Charlie, I was afraid I was going
to die. And it was the first time I got honest,
I guess, and it was about getting honest. And then
he gave me a hug and he went back to school.
And I didn't see my kids for six months, didn't
talk to him, didn't didn't reach out, just went to meetings.
(22:31):
I got a job that summer at Soapi Joe's car
wash on washing cars, you know, going from a big
deal financial advisor and he died on a big deal
in my head to washing cars and get it's over.
And I did that, and eventually I got a text
from my son, Hey, you want to go play nine?
I was of golf. Did that Oh when you got
(22:53):
that text?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That feeling?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah? And I showed up fifteen minutes early, and I
asked a ton of questions about himself, and I stop
bragging about you.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Know, you know I got six months of variety.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
You can so.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
You didn't have to.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Tell he.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Could experience it with you.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
There's a few things about your story that I really
wanted to point out to people listening. You do not
necessarily go into a treatment center one time and walk out.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Quote unquote, fixed or done. It may take you four.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I've met people who've been in eleven. You've probably met
people who've been in a dozen or more.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's do not give up.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Do do.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Not give yourself any sort of I don't know, like
I don't even know how to word it, but just
understand that if you're in, if you do relapse after
the first one, it does not mean that your story
is done.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
There No, please keep going.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And I do believe that there is something to be
said about finding the right And you could tell me
what your opinion is on this finding the right treatment
center for you, because for me, when I went a
big such a big piece of why I was drinking
was mental health issues and things traumas and things that
(24:32):
I had and in my past experiences that I had
never dealt with and it ignored.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
But they were all there, and I.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Was coping through alcohol because I didn't want to feel
and so I needed to find a place that focused
on mental health and tied the two together. And it
wasn't just oh, here's how you stopped drinking, it was
why are you drinking?
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Drink?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, and so for me and I again, I don't
what your opinion is on that, but finding the right
treatment center can.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Be very important.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, And that's a big part of that.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
My job as an interventionist is I work with probably
ten to twelve of the best treatment centers in the country,
and a lot of them focus on mental health as
well as the substances, right, and we have to do
that in order to figure out what we're drinking at
Sometimes there are treatment centers that just focus on the
drinking and just focus on AA, like the retreat and
(25:27):
that was a big thing for me, is the surrender
and the AA and the community which I didn't have,
and I didn't I didn't really want to be part of,
but I knew I needed it, and eventually I wanted it.
But yeah, the mental health side is huge. Every single
family that caused me says, I'm not sure if they're
an alcoholic or they just have really bad depression or anxiety.
And now I always say, all right, well, let's get
(25:48):
the booze out of the system for thirty or sixty
or ninety days, and then we can address the mental
health side, the anxiety and depression. And if we can
do that all on the same location and then the
same stay, awesome, all the better.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
So you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
More and more treatment centers are focusing on the why
what are we drinking at than just the detox from
the drinking or or the AA.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
But AA was huge for me the mental health side.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
I went to therapy once a week for a year
and every other week for the second year because the
therapy for me was big for my relationships, my relationships
with my kids, my ex, my family, everything else. And
then AA was big for me for sobriety. But absolutely
the mental health it's on every family's topic conversation from
day one, and some treatment centers are great at doing it.
(26:37):
So a lot of them say they do it and don't.
So doing your research, I'm glad you found a good
one because they Yeah, they do a great job down there.
So yeah, it's hugely important. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And again so it's it's doing.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Meds too, and if you need meds afterwards the depression
and anxiety, man's great, that's not that's that's that's why
they're there, right and.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
If and I always I just believe like it's not
a one size fits all. We are all so different
and to find the right team, the right support, the
right place is crucial. And I had I don't know
if you know Pam Landhard.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I know Pam so she was on.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
And this is partly why I want to do the podcast,
is create resources for people because I would have never
when I went to treatment.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I didn't I went into MPATH for three days before
because it was a crisis situation before I even went
to a facility, and.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I had I didn't know what to look for. I had,
I would not even know the questions to ask.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
So I do hope that this creates resources for people
to reach out to to navigate those waters because they're difficult.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Yeah, they're not only difficult where you're going to go
about it. But I always talk to families about you know,
let's say it's a thirty day program, what are you
doing on day thirty one? Like that's just important, if
not more than what you do on day one, because
if you're going to go back to the environment that
you were drinking in and it wasn't a healthy support
of environment, and you go back to the same habits
and you say, oh, I'm just gonna go to the
(28:13):
country club and play golf with you my buddies and
drink club soda, it's not gonna work for a while
like that. It didn't work for me. So what you're
doing on day thirty one, whether it's IP intensive outpatient
or some sort of aftercare plan or therapy or so
we're living, that's just hugely important. It's not a thirty
day fix. It's I'd lived and structured living for seven.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Months, Patrick Flanagin, you just did the most brilliant transition
for me, because this is what I wanted to talk about.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Next is the after you know, So for me, I
did thirty four days at Botaire.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I almost left on thirty three, I was ready to
go to All Points North in Colorado, which you've been to,
you visited, And because I knew at the end of
my stretch at Bautaire, I had not addressed.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
A lot of the trauma.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So I thought, if I go back out in the world,
I'm still missing a big piece of healing or coping
skills or what I need to address. So anyway, so
that's why I chose to go to All Points North. However,
there was going to be like thirty six hours between
me leaving Boutaire and going to All Points North, and
(29:30):
I remember them saying stay, like, just stay another day
here you can. You are so fortunate that your insurance
cover which what a privilege that my insurance.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Would cover that.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And they got my sister on the phone and they
pulled me into a room. They got my sister on
the phone and they.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Said, do you trust her? I was like, of course,
with my life, and they said, she's asking you to
stay one day.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Just stay. And again it's because if.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
You have that gap, I mean, you start you could
start drinking six an hour after you leave treatment.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I did, and I think that so for me, again,
not everybody gets that privilege.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I recognize that, but again I was going to another
center and how important it was for me not to
have the gap, and they.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Looked out for me, and I listened.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
And just like you said, it's hard to put the
ego aside sometimes and say they know better than I do,
But in those moments they.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Did, and.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
So I listened.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I listened to the people giving me the advice, and
I did not have the gap going to Colorado, and
I think I think that made a world of difference
for me. But when we're talking about this aftercare, I
when people are the success rate of people staying sober
is so low, it's terrible, tragically low. And I think
(31:09):
one of those pieces is the after piece. When we
send people out in the world, that's when it gets tough.
You're in treatment, you're in this like lovely, secure environment
and even though it's difficult, it's still it's sober.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
You're not on your phone like my phone was. I didn't,
so I got to live in this beautiful bubble of
healing and education and help. But when you leave, what
do you do? And so I think I know what
from the website that I've seen, from the research I've
done on your work. That is a big piece of
what you do. Right.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Is this absolutely what is after? What is after? I mean,
sober living saved my life. I live four blocks away
from the sober house I lived in six years ago.
I walk my dog by it every day. It reminds
me of where I came from, right and where I
was at. But sober living definitely saved my life. Being
in a house with twelve other dudes at age forty
five was not on my radar right, but I knew
(32:10):
I needed it. I needed the community. I needed to surrender.
I needed to humble myself. I needed to share a
room with somebody. I needed to help give him a
ride to work. I needed to get that job at
Sophie Joe's. Like all the whole process, I look back
at it now, is the best thing I ever did
for myself was my choice to finally go to sober living.
I had it kind of beaten over my head and
proved myself wrong three times. But yeah, and I went
(32:33):
door to door that was their rule, and it just
it saved my life. And so yeah, I became really
passionate about that. And so I was about nine months sober,
and I found this house in Como Park neighborhood, and
I went in and I toured it and it was
just seventy two hundred square foot beautiful mansion for sale
with eight bedrooms and nine bathrooms, two full kitchens, and
(32:54):
I just said, this would be a perfect sober house.
And everybody thought I was crazy. I was only nine
months sober, and most people don't jump into sober.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Living that early, like, let's wait, yeah, let's wait till
you get at.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Least a year's sobriety. And I took my girlfriend and
through it at the time, and she said, well, you
got to make this a women's house because it's got
nine bathrooms.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
And we kind of joked about it, but she was right.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
And I went to my business partner Tom and I said, Tom,
what do you think about doing a women's house. And
he's like, yeah, whatever you want to do, I'm supportive
of it. That makes sense to me. And he said,
you know, I brought my daughter to a lot of
really sober houses, right, and the beautiful fast forward. Now
his daughter works for us. It's seven years sober and
he's killing it. So we turned the Linehouse into a
(33:39):
women's recovery house. Sixteen women in early recovery. A beautiful community.
It's a beautiful hou it's called the Linehouse. It's got
two stone lions out in front, and it's in a
great neighborhood and it's been it's been just a blessing
and we love our work. And then we opened up
the Brownstone two years ago, which is a little different model.
It's five private rooms with recovery coaching, all meals, food,
(34:03):
living staff. But then another cool component is we have
a family recovery coach. So that's the other part of
the big recovery processes is the family getting any help.
So when a woman moves into the Brownstone, we have
a dedicated coach that's coaching her family. Whoever that is
a husband, kids, parents, you know, they're getting coaching and
(34:24):
that's required if your if your loved ones living there.
We don't let them skate on it because we know
the family needs as much.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Because they need help for themselves, like in the healing
process and then to create the relationship.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yes, yeah, yeah, so it's a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm I'm truly I cannot say, I genuinely mean, I'm
so impressed by your work. I'm impressed with your story
what you've done with it, because I think that's the
biggest gift we can try to.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Give is to be of service service.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, and that's what you're doing. Is there an opportunity
if somebody out there is listening and maybe they're in
that after step or they're looking for a place. Is
there a great resource for them in regards to what
you do. Website, emails that they could.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Reach out to.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
Yeah, so the website, the Irishman and associates for intervention work.
And if you if you just think you might need
to talk to somebody about your loved one, call I
don't charge right away. I just I give that free
hour to just walk through the situation. Maybe it's an
easy piece of advice. Maybe it's the intervention doesn't happen
until next month or next year. But call me. My
(35:41):
phone's always on, I'm always available. So that's what I
encourage people to do. If you have a love one
struggle and call me, figure out what the options are,
and it's a it's an easy conversation for me to
have and I can share my experience and what the
options are for the family. And then from the sober
living side, Linehouse same and the Brownstone Linehouse Brownstone dot com.
(36:03):
But the bigger resource for the community Minnesota Association of
Sober Homes MASH. You can google that. They have a website.
All the different sober living houses are listed. If you're
a member of MASH, that means you've been inspected, that
means you're a quality provider. There are four thousand sober
living beds in the Twin Cities, about sixteen hundred seventeen
(36:23):
hundred of those are MASH affiliated houses. I would encourage
people to look at the MASH website and determine that
and go with a MASH qualified house just because I'm
on the board of MASH.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
But we've done some everything's not perfect, you know, sober living.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
There's let's just say there's twelve guys in there in
sober house, there's gonna be two or three that don't
want to be there, that aren't doing the deal. I'm
not gonna lie to anyone like it's not the greatest,
But you can find those two or three people that
really want sobriety, and you're gonna stick with them. And
the house is associated with MASH, has been inspected and
as an owner and you have rights as a tenant,
(37:00):
and so go to the mash website.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Is there anything else that we didn't touch on? I mean,
I'm sure we could talk for hours, but is there
anything else you can think of? And I wanted to
end with one question. So if there's anything that I
haven't asked you that you wanted to share, please let
me know.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
Well, I will just share that.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Four years later, I was in the front row.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Of my daughter's college graduation.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Oh, I wish you could see us in here.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
So that was amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, those are memories you're making now that sobriety has
given you that you have taken.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Yeah, and just a couple months ago, I flew down
to Chicago and I took her to Pearl Jam. I
really feel oh the faithful.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I just watched Pearl Jam twenty pever. I'm upset. We
could do we could do a whole podcast on Pearl Jam.
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Well, I think I get out of town Pearl Jam.
I'm a big Pearl Jam fan and Metallica fan, but
I so yeah. I mean, my relationship with my daughter
is amazing. My son, he graduated from Saint Thomas. I
was about two or three years sober, and he said, Dad,
can I just come and live with you for like
a month until I kind of get situated and figure
out what I'm going to do after graduation. He lived
(38:24):
with me for a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Wow, And think I think three four years earlier never
would have happened, right, And you gave him a safe,
clearly fun or at least safe, secure, responsible environment that
he wanted to stay.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, and now he lives in Denver and they were
all in my house for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
That's amazing. Three kids, So what a life.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah, it's truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And as you said before, humbling yourself in these omens
reminds you truly what's important and how little you need
to be happy. The happiest I was for a long
time was in the treatment center and I was sharing
a room with someone. I didn't have my phone, I
(39:18):
didn't have designer handback, you know, all the material things
that sometimes we can put way way too much importance on.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And this more simple that our life can be.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Sometimes and humbling yourself can make it make yourself way
more happy.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, And I just I can't stress that enough.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So do not be afraid to take that step if
you feel like it is one you need even to
explore it, because life, as you just said it with
all of your for examples, can be real beautiful when
you're working through it, when you're in recovery.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Yeah. I used to go to meetings early on and
I hear the guys say, you know, I'm a grateful
I'll introduce themselves as a grateful alcoholicy.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I was like, what the hell are you talking about.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
I just burned my life to the ground. What do
I have to be grateful about. I'm absolutely a grateful
alcoholic at this point.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, through all through that suffering creates a really beautiful life.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Well, I'm going to end it there because this was
really awesome. I loved this conversation. Thank you for having me,
Patrick Flanagan. You are a gem. You're a national treasure
in Minnesota and we are lucky to have you. And
thank you for the work that you do. Truly, Thank
you huge. Thank you as always to Brett Blakemore, thank you.
(40:47):
I just love you man. Thanks for producing these episodes.
It means a lot to me. And that is it
for Here we go this week. Catch up on all
the episodes.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
The first four episodes of The Here we Go podcast
tells me my story, and I would I really want
you guys to stick with us, because I think we're
gonna learn a lot together, and we're gonna grow. And
even though we have those hard days, those hard weeks,
those hard minutes like I did last week, we're gonna
keep going.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
So Here we Go.
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