November 14, 2024 • 41 mins
Carly hosts Stephen Cantwell - the person who helped create the treatment center Carly first went to for long-term help: Beaturre. Stephen is 17 years sober; a successful businessman and loving family member and friend. But it wasn't always that way; hear his story from addiction and arrests to recovery and paying it forward.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to a new episode of Here We Go with
Carly Zucker. As always, thank you guys so much for
taking the time to listen to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
There's a million podcasts out there, and.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
What I hope to do with this podcast is bring
people together with community who deal with things that are
very difficult. We all have struggles in our lives, whether
it's mental health, substance abuse, relationships, family, we all deal
with so many things. And so the more we can
build community to be there for each other, I think
is a much better thing. And honest, open communication stories
(00:43):
that help us and that's what I try to do
on Here we Go.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And so today my guest, we have we're giving Katie
a break. So my guest actually knows my sister really well,
which is fun.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
But we've been putting Katie on the hot seat mostly
so she deserves it. Yes, Steven Cantwell is joining me
right now, who we have such a great backstory and
we're going to talk all about that. But one of
the key pieces of our stories that my sister is
kind of our foundational piece of how we know each other.
(01:14):
Because you guys have golfed together at Midland Country Club
for a long time. So first, if you wouldn't mind
just introducing yourself. You've started a new business, but you've
also been I've talked about Bautaire where I went to treatment,
and you were heavily involved obviously with Botaire. So if
you want to just kind of give some background on
who you are, that would be awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah. So my name is Stephen.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Can'twell, I'd be remiss without just, first off, number one,
saying thank you for having me, right like, thank you
so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
It's so cool to see you flourish. It's so cool
to be here and to connect with you at this
level and in this kind of format.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
This is super super FUNU.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Stephen's seen me in treatment.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Stephen visited me while I was in treatment at Botaire.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I can't confirm, So yeah, he cannot conduct.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I can say it. I will say it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Steven does not say it, but it was and he
was such a key piece.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
For my family in navigating that journey.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But again, let's go back to who you are and
what you do. But I just wanted to jump in
with that.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
No, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I appreciate it and thank you for all the kind words,
and again, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And I'm really proud of you. I really am.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
It's it's super fun to watch. It's fun to watch
the life come back to people. So I've been been
sober for seventeen years April twenty four, two thousand and seven.
And you know, again, like I need to lead with
that because that is my life, right it is. Whether
I'm talking you know, through my sponsor or other people,
It's like that is the most important thing. My therapist,
my sponsor remind me all the time. It's like when
(02:40):
you list the things that are important in.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Your life, what is number one? Right?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And that is for me the fact that I am
a man in long term recovery. I've been sober since
April twenty four, two thousand and seven, and I'm a
drug addict and alcoholic and I have no shame with that.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I love it, right, like that is my life and so.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
That is a piece of who we are and a
big piece.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Huge and so I you know, I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts,
little town called Wellesley and came out here April twenty four,
two thousand and seven, like I mentioned, and built a
life and a career, and they've kind of done the deal,
you know, gotten plugged into recovery and people in community
and finished education and then started a career with Apple,
and then from Apple went to work for one of
(03:21):
the largest addiction treatment providers in the state of Minnesota
and kind of grew, you know, through, grew through that
organization and then after eleven plus years of that organization
and helping countless lives, which is just a huge passion
of mine, to be able to give back, you know,
I started a business in January of this year and
(03:41):
it's been absolutely gangbusters, super super fun to see the
growth and to just be able to help providers on
a national scale with operational efficiency, marketing strategy, marketing research,
structured growth, the whole nine yards and ultimately for the
betterment of helping is many people get access to care
(04:01):
as possible.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Right, And what's the business called, Just to give it
a shout.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Out business today, shout out C and C Consulting.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
So myself, Stephen Cantwell and my business partner who's also
one of my best friends, Aaron Cassoli, we've just we've
we've taken in and run with it and it's been
absolutely fantastic. It's like we we talked for a while
about you know, people are calling us all the time
about like how do I how do I do this
in my business? How do I do this in my business?
How do I, you know, create more access to more people?
How do I lead my marketing team? How do I
(04:30):
you know, create accountability and structure and KPIs and metrics
and all that stuff. And we would just give that
advice away for free, which we were happy to do, right.
It's like we're helping people. And then you know, when
I made the decision to leave the organization that I
work for, which was the hardest decision alive. I mean
I've built a program and scratch down in southern Minnesota
and helped grow this and that. Yeah, that's like I
(04:51):
remember the name Generation Session, right, it was like, what
are we going to name it? Are we going to
name it as a myth recovery center? It's like, no,
we don't want to do that, And we we created
this name bo It means beautiful Earth and it was
really really cool.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
But it's like I had so much invested in that.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I mean I remember writing the business plan for it,
I remember doing the market research to support the viability
of the business case. And it was really hard to
walk away from that, but I knew it was the
right time and I had I had done everything that
I could at that organization and hardest decision where one
of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make, which
turned out to be one of the coolest things in
(05:25):
my life. And now I have this booming business and
you know, we're booked basically two years out and we're
helping a lot of people and at the end of
the day, we're helping people get access to care. And yeah,
I mean it's just so interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And again I think, what what's such a big piece
of having you on today is you know, I'm I'm
fairly new in recovery. You see Stephen now in long
term recovery, and it it's hopefully you.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Hear, the hope you hear.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I mean, I've always looked at you and been like
your energy, You're You're such an inspiration. I am constantly
when I speak to you, you just give me a
little bit more hope, always a little more inspiration.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And so that's a big piece of.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Why I wanted to have you on, because I want.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
People to hear your voice, to hear your story and
be inspired by you just like I was.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And so when one of the coolest things.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
About Botaire as you guys built it, and maybe you
can speak a little bit to this and to the
why you did it, But with Boutaire, I felt like
such a huge piece of being there was the mental
health piece Sure, tied to addiction, tied to substance abuse.
And not every place gives you that when you go
through the doors.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
For treatment or not gives you well.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Yeah, or doesn't give it to you. Well, but what
I found.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
There was that it tackled the reasons why I drink Sure,
and that was such a big piece for me. So
when you were going into creating the business plan and
going into the idea of that, did you those were
those pieces really crucial to you?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
When you think about just like business creation and you know,
whether it be you know, growing an existing business or
creating a new business, right, it's all about like, what
is what is the need?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
What is the market need? At least in my eyes?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Right, Like, so you do a bunch of research and
that research usually tells you like, hey, yes, there is
a need or no, there is not a need, right.
And so at that time, you know, I worked for
Meridian Behavioral Health, which was an organization that that's where
I worked for eleven years. They're the owner of Boteil
Recovery Institute, and so, you know, when I'd worked there
for probably a year and a half, two years, and
(07:35):
we were growing pretty rapidly and I was a part
of that growth, and I was I was helping get
a lot of people access to care, and it was
super exciting, and you know, we had this question and
the question was, Okay, do we just continue to expand
or is there an opportunity because Meridian at that time
was just a predominant Medicaid provider, right, so helping people
that either were using state and county and federal insurance
(07:57):
or we're using Medicaid insurance or you know, and to
so health plans to get access to care. And there
was really no commercial volume that was coming into coming
into both tear right.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
There.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
There wasn't a whole lot of people accessing commercial benefits
to get access to care.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And so what's interesting is we had this question.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
We're like, okay, what if we took the Maritean Care model,
which was one centered on you know, substance use disorder
and mental health, right and treating those in conjunction.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
What if we did that and catered it.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
To the commercially insured population, right, like folks like you
and I that are that have commercial benefits, would that
be viable?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Right?
Speaker 4 (08:34):
And you look at the state of Minnesota and you've
got a couple of fantastic other providers, right, you got
hazeled in great provider, predominantly twelve Step with you know,
definitely some foray into medication assistant treatment, and also you know,
mental health services and some pretty complex you know, mental
mental health services and medical services that they provide. Great provider,
so they you know, had quite a few, quite a
(08:55):
few beds in the state of Minnesota and also throughout
the nation. And then you have the retreat right, and
the retreat is kind of twelve step immersion program. John
Curtis their CEO. Of A ton of respect for that man, right, Yeah. Yeah,
they do tremendous work, and John's been a mentor of
mine for years. I can't say enough good stuff about
that gentlemen, for sure. But that being said, you know,
we looked at it. We're like Okay, if the state
(09:17):
of Minnesota really only has these two options, who's to
say that we can't take our model, which is really
one more centered on you know, integrated mental health and
you know this really kind of like evidence.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Based, eclectic approach to care.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
What if we cater that to folks like you and I, right,
and I did about six eight months, Market Research wrote
a situation analysis. That situation analysis became a business plan,
and it was all the voice of the people, right,
That's where all that research came from, and then basically
put it into form January. Here's the funny thing, right,
January January twenty eight, twenty fifteen, is when we opened
(09:55):
our doors. We were slated to open Botaire January first,
twenty fifteen, but the handicap accessible ramp right, yeah, to
get to the front door was off by two degrees no.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, so in the heart of winter we had to
break down that.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We had to like redig it, and then we had
to rebuild that, make sure that it was up to
code and everything perfectly.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And because gooterere's an old mansion, basically it literally is
an old mansion.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, Gay conference center, Yeah, it was Daniel C. Gainey's.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
It was his his summer retreat right like had his horses.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And stuff like that. It was it was super cool.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So we launched January twenty eight, twenty fifteenth, and yeah,
provided a lot of access to a lot of people.
And over the years it's just been so fun to
watch it, you know, grow and and just like with
the level of service that that you know gets, it
gets added all all the cool stuff that that we've
been able to do and how we've been able to
(10:51):
transform lives through the different care you know, opportunities that
are there and in quality staff and just again like
great engagement. It was just like really really cool to
watch it it grow. But it was all centered on
this point of being like hey, rather than just play
the game like a lot of providers do. That is
like okay, well we're going to treat the substance use disorder. Yeah,
(11:13):
and then we're gonna treat them in health. It's like,
well what if we marry that too and we treat
everything and conjunction together.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, you know, and I.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Think that's something that really resonated with you your experience.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That is what I needed.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, it's like, you know, you can't you can't play
whack a mole and try to like do this and
then do this, and then do this and then do this.
It's like, what if we treat each person as an individual, right,
understand what really matters to them, and then from there,
you know, build treatment plans that are specific to what
their needs are, right, whether it be substance use disorder
related or you know, mental health related, and just treating
(11:46):
things coquering disorders in conjunction is where the industry was
going at that time, and it still is today. I mean,
probably ninety nine percent of people accessing treatment today have
a coaquering disorder, right, and let's bring awareness to that, right, like,
so that we can appropriately treat people.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Rather than.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
You know, just kind of ignore one and treat the other.
Because again, that's where a lot of that recidism comes from.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Said yeah, yeah, you're gonna end up with a lot
of relapse then.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And that's why I wanted everybody listening to hear from
Stephen is because this approach I thought was so benefit
and everybody is so different when it comes to recovery.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So what might work for one person might not for
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But one of the biggest things I've heard from people
who are listening to this podcast are wow. Marrying the
two the integrated health is something I hadn't really thought
about or something that I hadn't really had an opportunity
to do.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
I do want to talk about your recovery me. Yeah,
so let's go back seventeen plus years.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Let's go way way back.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Well, I was a wee lad oh we the Massachusetts exactly.
I didn't have this white hair, this gray hair, whatever
you want to call it.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
So funny, my like Hairstylish is a dear friend of mine.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
She's like, I'm like, man, I really got to start
falling in love with his hair colored, don't I? And
she's like, Stephen, you don't. She's like, people pay money
to have the color hair.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Okay, So anybody listening and not watching it, like if
we do have video of this, so you got to
go to the Here We Go podcast dot com to
link to the videos and stuff and on my social
But Stephen has the greatest color hair.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
And I didn't know you didn't, Like, you have to
love it.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I have now. I mean it's been years of me
loving it.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
But it's just when someone says sober fox like that's
what like you are the definition of that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Oh I guess, Oh I love it too funny but yeah,
I mean again I.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Got so what did you?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I mean, what did your when you share your story,
when you talk about your story? What how did how
did you know everything start?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I mean I think it's listen and it's so interesting
too because just with recovery.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And again I love speaking about recovery.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, Like it's just it is so near. Indeed, it
gives you the chills to talk about it. I mean,
this is my life today, right, and I have so
much to kind of say about that. But it's interesting,
like I think for all of us, like there's so
much similarity, right like, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
It's like, what's your story, what's your story? What's your story?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And it's like it's all the same story, just with
different specifics, right like.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
And why did we all start drinking it like four times?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I don't know?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Why?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Is that?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Like the early Like there's.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Something about when I walked into Botairet was like everybody's like, oh, yeah,
that's the same Aida.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
There's something wildly like similar about that.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, we're uncomfortable in our own skin you know, this
is what it is. And you know, and I grew
up with two beautiful parents. Yeah, wonderfully they loved me
so much, right, Like we didn't want for anything.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Now.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
We grew up in a culture and grew up in
a family where you work for what you had, right,
Like my dad was a very successful executive Gillette, and
my mother was a stay at home mom. And prior
to that, she was a geneticist, right, she studied chromosomes,
like it was really really cool. And I come from
just a long line of success, right, And so for me,
you know, I like I just always felt I always
(14:53):
felt off, like I had something to prove, or like
I didn't have a voice, right. And I've done so
much work on that, just like personally through recovery and
just through other places, and there are so many great
services out there for anybody struggling with that kind of stuff.
But that being said, I just I just felt lost, right,
Like I was always seeking, right, Like I was wanted
to be popular, but I wasn't popular.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I always wanted to have a voice, but I couldn't
speak up for myself, right, And you know, I just
found comfort in I found comfort in drugs and alcohol
and the people that did.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
And it's so funny because the majority of my life
and I lived under the diagnosis is having OCD, right,
Because like there were some things that happened in elementary school, right,
and that like you know, had different varying levels of
trauma and and I just didn't know how to react.
And like my reaction to those things was like some anxiety,
(15:44):
anxiety behaviors that also manifested themselves as like OCD symptoms.
So I'd like sit in a therapist's office and they'd
be like, oh, classic OCD. And it wasn't until I
came to Minnesota, got sober and did like five to
seven years. I can't remember the exact timeframe, five to
seven years with my therapist, who was just one of
(16:07):
my guiding lights, right, Like, and he's like Steven, He's like,
you don't have OCD. I'm like what wait, what?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
What? What?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
She's like, you know, and he just explained the whole thing,
and it was just it was wild. But yeah, So
I I just found comfort as a kid in you know, feeling.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I was so lost.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
I just felt I felt so comfortable being out of body, right,
so drugs, alcohol, like the partying in the whole nine yards.
And I continued all the way through through high school.
That continued all the way through college. Right Like, in college,
I had some very alarming things happened, like out a
DUI like almost drove a car off a cliff in college,
right like, and just all this crazy stuff. And I
(16:49):
was putting myself in just like horrific situation, very very
risky you know, in the city, like picking up you know,
copious amounts of drugs, and like, you know, that was
a part of my story. And that being said, you know,
it just I feel so fortunate in my recovery and
in my story because I did have a point, right
like I had. I had gotten sober prior to coming
(17:10):
to Minnesota at a place called McLain Hospital, Belmont, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Say do great work.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I had just actually stolen a car and got arrested
for that. And then when they you know, did a
you'reine test on me, a you know, pop positive for
quite a few things. And so I got kind of
put into McLain the hospital, and I was sober for
like a year, but it apparently it just wasn't bad enough,
right like, and so I went back and I relapsed
and you know, moved to Rhode Island and then from
(17:35):
there just continue to do what I was doing. And again,
like life just I feel so fortunate because for me
and my story, and I don't need to go into
all the specifics, but like there's a lot of people
that don't have like that rock bottom or don't have
like that like point where like life is so bad
that they make a decision, and I was. I was
so so fortunate because I remember it like clear as day.
(17:59):
I was sitting on the steps of the Providence Place
mall right working there. I think I just got fired
from like pacsun, you know what I mean, like give
me a break, right, And I was sitting on the
steps of the Providence Place mall and my life at
that point, you know, I was done stealing, I was
done lying, I was done terrorizing people.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I was done dealing drugs. I was using. I got
hit by something.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
I don't know what it was, but I sat there
and I was like, I cannot do this anymore. I
cannot And I don't know where that came from, but
it came over me like a ton of bricks and
it was just like, my life is so bad, I
cannot do this anymore. And I called my folks and
I was like, I need help, right, And it's like,
(18:43):
and I don't know how that happened. Maybe it was
just the culmination of just so much bad stuff and
so many risky situations and just like horrific events over
years and years and years and years and years of
use and failed treatment, et cetera, et cetera. Just like
maybe I was so lost internally, it was so unmageable.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
My life was get so exhaustive to you, Oh my god, I.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Was tired and and I mean it gives me the
chills again to just even talk about it. I remember making
that phone call and forty eight hours later I walked
into Hazelin Center for Youth and Families, which is now
Hazel and Plymouth here in Minnesota. And it's so funny
because I think they max out at like age twenty five,
(19:26):
and I was like a twenty three year old. My
roommate was like fourteen. They were just like eating starburst
all day.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Long, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
It's just like but that was like the start of
my recovery, right and perfect pair exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I like it you know, I did treatment there.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I went from there to a place that was not
as nice called Cockranhouse at the time, and did kind
of like the extended care or whatever here in Minnesota.
And then from there I found my way to a
silber house in Saint Paul, where I met some great
friends and started going to meetings and things like that.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
And like from there, my roommate happened to work for
like a staffing firm, and that staffing firm, you know,
was connected at like placing people for the launch of
the iPhone and so like it's just crazy how like
all the pieces come together. And so I was like
going to meetings and then I got this job like
doing technical support on the launch of the first iPhone
and so.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Like, which is wild. Why you worked for hopp.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Like yeah, like two thousand and seven, Like yeah, two
thousand and seven.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Like let's say you're calling, Yeah, right, so you're calling
and you're like, I don't know how to use my iPhone.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Like I'm the guy with like a year play.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I think it was like fifteen to eighteen months of sobriety.
I'm the guy who was like power it on power
it off, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Power, Yeah, our cycle.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Your phone, And I'm like looking through the literature, like okay,
well how do I how do I explain this stuff?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
And I'm like going to all the troubles. She's like
I was that guy, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
And and then from there, you know, I worked my
way up kind of through that and then ended up
moving into kind of the retail side of things and
started as kind of like a product specialist and then
an expert, and then worked with our business team at
Apple and did that and then took a complete leap
of faith leaving Apple. And I had listen people ask
me that all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
They're like, how did you leave Apple? Like why did
you leave Apple?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
They're like, that's the most recognizable brand in the world.
I mean, I was sitting there in like the break
room with these these long term Apple employees right that
were like.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Oh, I need to buy a new car.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Let me just cash out some of my Apple stuff,
And I'm like, holy smokes, Like these are a long
time enthusiasts.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I'm like, why would you leave Apple?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And I'm like, well, when in life are you given
the opportunity. I mean, I'm living on borrowed time at
that time anyways, right, And I got stuff to say
about that as well, But people ask it, I'm like,
I say, I'm like, when in life are you given
the opportunity to do not only what you are most
passionate about, which is the field of recovery, the field
(21:46):
that gave me my life back, and also like what
you went to school for?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Right, Because all the while I was at Apple, Like.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I went back and I got to petition to get
my lehah university degree through taking class at the University
of Minnesota. I had some advocates that knew my story
and they went to bat for me, and like I
they got to extend the graduation rule. I mean, like
my story is so wild, right, Like I had people
that I didn't even know coming out of the woodwork
like advocating for me. And I'm like, where are these
people coming from?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Like how am I? How am I so lucky? So blessed? Right?
But people believed in me? Right, And that's so wild,
And that's part of why, like I think maybe I
show up with the level of energy I do today.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Is like sometimes people just need a little belief. Yeah, yeah,
you know, they need they need a little bit, they
need a little belief, They need somebody to you know.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
They need some hard to champion them sometimes and just
when especially when they're they're they're not feeling it themselves.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And so you know, like I totally lost my turn
of thought there.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But no, no, and well I did want to circle
back to the borrowed time you made that comment.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You said, I want to talk more about that. What
is it about that that you wanted to talk about?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Oh, well, I'll go there and just one second, I
just remember so basically, so the whole deal about you know, like, oh,
leaving Apple.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
People ask me, I'm like, here I was.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I was given this opportunity to go work in the
addiction treatment space, which is the field that gave me
my life back.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And what I I'm most passionate about, like and what
I went to school for, right, Like, I went to
school for.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Marketing business develpment, like business economics. That's my degree is in,
and that's where I jumped from. That's where I jumped
from essentially working at Apple to go working in behavioral
healthcare and Meridian. Right, it was so wild and then
from there, like my career just took off and it
was so so so cool and so so back to
the to the bottom to the to the borrowed time one.
(23:26):
And the crazy thing too about just the like doing
what you love is like most people don't even get
the opportunity to day to like do what they they
went to school for.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, you know what I mean, let alone what they.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Right, Yeah, And so like that was just it was
just so cool for me how all these doors kind
of opened and doors I didn't see and then it
was just like, oh my gosh. But just like the
living on borrowed time stuff, it's so wild. It's like
people ask me all the time, they're like, would you
change anything?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
And this, this this specifically over the last two years
has like been so relevant, so relevant because often in
my life and probably the first fifteen, maybe thirteen fourteen
fifteen years of my sobriety, you know, I'd be like, oh, man,
would it have been any different? Like if I had
just like graduated Lehigh and gone to work in financial
services like everybody else at Lehigh in New York City
(24:12):
and lived that life and whatever, And I'm just like, no.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I don't want that life. I'm like the life that
I have.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Today, right, like with recovery at the at the crux
of it all, right, like with recovery as the pinnacle,
right and the family relationships I have, the friendships, my
beautiful significant other.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, like I just I am so lucky.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
No, if all the stuff in my life that happened
led me to where I am today, sitting here with
you talking about recovery, you know, and watching you flourish
and just being a part of this whole process and
the life that I have, then you know what, Like, no,
I would not change a thing.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I wouldn't change a thing, not a freaking thing.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I mean, here I said, forty one years old, with
the whitest hair you could possibly see, and I.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Am so grateful for my life.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Doesn't mean that everything every day is perfect, right, Like
of course, at the end of the day, Like the
easiest part is getting sober, the hardest part is the
work that follows, you.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
But that being said, there's just so much help available
and the living on borrowed time. The other thing that's
been a huge theme for me this year has been
showing up right, Like we lost Jackie Mike, my significant.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Other, we lost her dad.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
You know, we lost her dad in January, and like
it coincided with me choosing to leave my organization and
then building this new company. But it all worked in
a way where like in that period of time when
we he you know, he passed away very quickly, right like,
I got to show up.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I got to show up.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
To be NonStop. I had nothing in my way. I
got to show up. I got to hold his hand,
right like, I got to be there for him when
he took his last breath, right Like I got to
ask for you know, her hand in marriage to him
the day that.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
He died, with her present. Like how sad but beautiful
is that? Right? Like that's a gift of recovery.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
And so what's so wild And I was sharing about
this at a meeting, is like this whole borrowed time concept.
And I for a lot of years in my recovery,
I said, God, there's no good reason I should be
alive today. There's no good reason, right like the deck
was stacked against me, the cards were not in my favor.
There's no good reason that I should be alive today.
(26:23):
And you know what's wild is that's not true. There
is absolutely a reason that I'm alive today. And what
I just shared is is that case in point. Right Like,
I was alive so that I could show up for
Jackie when she lost her dad, right Like, I got
to have that experience with her.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I got to show up NonStop.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
I'm alive today so I can show up in people's
lives so that I can help businesses, that I can
help people.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
You showed up in my life truly for my family too.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, And I mean that's just what we're doing.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
We're conditioned to be of service to others, right like,
which is.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
A big part of recovery.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yeah, I mean it is what it is, right trust God,
clean house and help others, right Like, how can I
be of service to you?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
How can I be of service to anybody else? Right Like?
That's what was given to me. People I know, people
I don't know, went.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Out of their way to pave a way for me,
you know, whether it be like AA or sobriety related
or whether it be life related, because that's married for me,
you know what I mean. They went out of their
way to provide opportunity for me. I mean, starting with
like my parents, right like, providing the open door for
me to get to Hazelton, Yeah, to get sober.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
My father was about as senior and executive as you
can be at Gillette, and he's like knocking on the
medical director of Jillett's door being like, hey, I need
you to help me get my son authorized time, you
know what I mean? Like I had all these people
going to bed. I mean, I get my parents, my brothers, right,
like God, the amount of trauma that I created in
that family system, and they all continued to show up me.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So what can I do today? Right?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I can extend a hand. I can help others that
are struggling. I can show up for my family. I
can be a loving brother, I can be a loving son. Right,
I can be a loving relative to anybody.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
I mean my phone rings all day long, people that
need help, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I always pick up because what you got to do?
They did that for me, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
And so yeah, I don't believe in the whole like
borrowed time concept anymore. I don't believe in the whole
like I shouldn't be here, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Because I should be.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Here and what had changed in perspective? Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
That's one of the gifts and recovery is a having perspective, yeah,
and then be being open enough to experience the shift, right.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
And it's like, I mean, I go to a place
every single year called on Site Workshops in Tennessee, and
they do some of the best workshops, right like professional growth,
professional leadership, living centered.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
All that stuff. They do some of the best workshops.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
In helping us understand who we are and then pivoting.
They got this tagline around the two degree shift, and
boy does it make sense. It's like small changes we
don't really recognize, but enough of those two degree shifts
over time is a complete pivot, you know what I mean.
And it's like I try to embrace that in my
life every single day. But I'll tell you what, Like,
you know, I'm not religious by any means, but I'm
(29:22):
a proud member of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I don't feel
any shame saying.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
That at all.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And you know, my relationship with God a power grid
of myself, and you know, that's been probably one of
the most impactful things in my recovery.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I'd have a sponsor.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
And it's so interesting because you know, I when I
first I was I was really struggling in early recovery,
right like yours, one, two, three, because I like grew
up Catholic, and I was like, oh, I'm just I'm
gonna you know, I understand the God concept, right, I
understand that stuff. And so for me, steps were like, oh,
I'll skip one through three because I think I've got
that in the bag, and we'll go right to four.
(29:56):
And you know what's interesting is that, like it wasn't
until I just continue to connect with my sponsor and
he's like, hey, let me know when you want to
start praying or like connecting to someone outside yourself, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And I'm like, I got this, dude, I got this.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And like my life kept being terrible because all I
would do is act on the same behaviors that kept
me I've already got, you know, And I would just
keep banging my head against the wall.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
And and I.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Remember, like it was like three or four years into sobriety,
I finally took his advice, you know, and he was
so kind and so generous kind of sharing that with me,
and and I'm just like all right, fine, And I
started hitting my knees, you know, and I didn't worry
about like what I was going to say or the
whole God thing or whatever right because my religious.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
Who it is, what it is, Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
But I just focused on every single night, no matter
where I was hitting my knees and being intentional about
that process. And I'll tell you what, like, change my
change my recovery, change my life for the better.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
So I haven't.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I haven't missed the day and years that is fourteen
something years.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Another thing that you touched on that I thought was
really important for people listening.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Is the step.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So you know, I think somebody listening the idea of
approaching recovery if you haven't or approaching you know, getting
help with mental health. That it's not a linear process
necessarily and it's not something that you need to beat
yourself up. But I mean, I think both of us
have known people that have been.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Through multiple treatments for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Or and the fact that you took the time then
to go to Hazeldin and then you took time and
it sound like sober living and other places, so it
is it is a process total and do not if
you go into treatment and there you know, you you
feel really good after a week, right and treatment or
something and you're like, I got this.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I got this. Rely on the people around you, sure,
and the.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
People who are a little bit ahead of you maybe
and have the education, and the people in long term recovery.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Rely on their advice.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Because one of the things that was like, don't leave early.
I was going to leave a day early from Boutaire.
I did thirty four days and I'm thirty three. I
was like, I'm good, I'm gonna go because I did
thirty days, and it was I was gonna have two
days between going to there an ape and all points north,
my trauma center that I went to in Colorado. And
(32:17):
they got my sister on the phone at Bautaire and
pulled me into a room and they're like, you really
want to leave, Like do you think that's the best idea?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
And what's it going to look like if you.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Go home and you're not quite ready, or you have
a gap between going to Colorado and you decide not
to go, or you you know.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Have have too much time between. So I stayed. I
listened to them.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I listened to someone who loved me, which was my
sister who was on the phone. I listened to the
professionals at Bautaire, and I said, Okay, I'm just going
to stay.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
And so if you have the.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Privilege and the ability to do so, I would say take.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
The time one hundred. I mean, follow the recommendations. Take
the time.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
It's so funny because like, you know, we're all can
conditioned to think that we know it all. Oh yeah,
like it is what it is, right, And it's like
there's all those things like our best thinking got us here,
you know what I mean. We didn't come in on
a hot three gro winning streak or whatever.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
And it's it's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Though, but just given a little bit of like peace, right,
Like if you think about the internal battle, and none
of us chose to be drug addicts alcoholics, right, the
disease of addiction is recognized just like any other disease
like cancer, diabetes, et cetera, eter etcetera. And so it's
so interesting too write because it's like we didn't choose this, no,
but there is help and there is a solution if
we choose to accept it. Right. And so when we
(33:30):
think about treatment and a treatment episode and treatment experience, right,
like it's not a linear process.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
You know, sometimes it feels like I Stephen Campbell like.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Running a hurdles race and I'm not making it over
one hurdle, you know what I mean, Which I'm a
six or four guy, and like by all intensive purposes,
I should be able to jump over her. Yeah, but no,
I'm just like reckoning them, you know, one after the other, right,
because that's what it is. It's like starts stop, start, stop,
starts stop, and sometimes you know, and it was for me,
like relapses part of the story, right, And also for
(33:59):
me what's part of the story is like following recommendations
and accepting the help, right, Like it's so important in
our in the field of addiction treatment and in receiving
help and getting sober and all that stuff. It's like
fall the recommendations, right, like go to the next step provider, right,
and then go to the next step provider, and then
go to the next step provider, right. Like I would
(34:20):
encourage anybody who's accessing treatment or getting help or whatever
to never say no to more services, you know what
I mean, Like take everything you can, right, because those
are the tools that you're gonna need when when.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Life gets hard.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
And like I said before, you know, like the easy
parts getting sober, you know, and by no means mistake
what I say, Like, getting sober is extremely difficult, right,
but it's the work to stay sober. It's the work
that follows that's super, super difficult. And so like for you, you
made the right call, you know what I mean, to
like go from door to door, right and.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
To embrace that I was gonna stay sober long term
and have the chance to.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
One hundred percent and you need that stuff. And and
like for me, like I very likely would not be
where I am today if I didn't go to treatment
and then go to the next step provider and then
go to a sober home and then you know, get
plugged into a recovery community.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Whatever that is, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yeah, even if I was like you know, bucking my
head along the way and not really wanting to not
really wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
And if you experienced it it and something doesn't feel
like a fit, don't give up. You know, there's so
many opportunities and options out there.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
For sure, don't ever give up, Like, don't ever give up.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
And here's the thing. There are also like so many
services out there for people to help, like families and
systems do repairative work or to guide them into the
treatment process and what are quality options because it's a
very murky space out there too, and it's tough and
it's hard to know where to go and why.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Good time to remind people you connected me Pam Landhart,
who was a guest on The rock Star who started.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Thrive and she's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
And I can't say Thrive enough because I mean, just
google it and Pam Landhart and she has been able
to provide information and education for people and families and
that is so valuable.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Oh, we're gonna wrap this.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I just, I mean, my heart is so full for you,
Like I just, I can't thank you enough for your
involvement in my recovery.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
And again I talk.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
A lot about the support people in my life, and
Stephen has been a big support person in my life
and my family. And when I say that, you know
my sister, everybody my family was like, we don't know
what to do while she's in recovery. What do we
do to help her while she's in treatment? And they
had you to lean on, and so thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
No, thank you.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Listen, it's a privilege. It's a privilege to be sitting
here today. It's a privilege to watch you flourish. You're
a prime example of like if you do the work,
you get the results.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
And so you know, I just can't thank you enough
and thank you for what you've given to my life. Yeah, right,
and just the ways that you've been able to show up.
And I'm always here for you. I got a lot
of love for you, and I'm so proud much.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
And here's the other thing I'll say to the audience
or listeners, right, is that like help is available.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yes, it's always available.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
So whether it's you or whether it's me or whatever,
like look us up, make the phone call, send the message.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Like it's a privilege to be able to provide services
or to provide recommendations or even just an ear or
a shoulder or whatever to anybody out there. Right, Like
help is available, yep, right, Like reach out, please please
reach out. And if I can do anything to help anybody, listener,
you're obviously you anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Right, Like let me know, I said, I said, my
dms are open, you know, if you can email me
or DM me, they're open. And I mean that and
I've been able to respond and connect with people. And
for privacy purposes, I want everybody to know, like what
you talk to me about and in recovery, we had
the anonymity and the way we respect each other's privacy
(38:09):
is so deeply respected. And so I just want you
to know, like, if you ever reach out and if
you ever need anything, whether it's an ear or it's
somewhere to connect you to something anything, that I'm here.
And so I don't know if you want to give
any information on your socials or anything that you could.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Look it up, but feel free reach out whenever you want.
I mean, my Instagram is at some called Stephen kind
of a weird weird.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
There's sneak sneaker heads.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
If you're a sneaker guy or gal, Stephen has the
best ones.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
On the planet.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
It's exactly right.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
It's lower on the list of like the gifts of recovery,
but man, it's given me an opportunity to do something
that I love, which is is collect sneakers.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
And I've been a long time collector for a long
long time.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
So if hey, if you don't connect on mental health,
substance or anything, we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But you love sneakers, you can find right.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, yeah, please reach out to me. DM.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
You know I'm I'm around, you know I'm available, and literally,
my life's work is helping people in organizations find access
to care and give them a fighting chance.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
So whatever I can do, I think you know firsthand,
I do.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, very first I will do whatever I can to
help anybody out there, So please send me messages.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Awesome, Steven can't well, thank you so much for joining me,
for sharing your story, for your recovery, for your support, everything.
It really means so much to me. And again, I
hope this conversation for anybody listening feels inspiring and gives
you some hope and also shows you what a recovery
relationship looks like, because my relationships with friends and family
(39:46):
who maybe aren't in recovery or I've dealt with this are.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
Wonderful and beautiful and great.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
But I hope listening to Stephen and I connect shows
you that when you get into.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
This world of recovery, you create relationships.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That are unlike anything else.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
And here's the last thing I'll say, and I said
it when we walked in here too, is like, we
don't have to suffer in silence. No, you know what
I mean, We did that enough in our lives, so yeah,
talk about it, right, Like, let's normalize the conversation around
substance use disorder and mental health. Let's normalize the conversation
about resources being available and let's.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Talk about it.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Let's get better together, Let's.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Get better together. Let's help as many people as possible.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, Oh, you're the best.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And I want to say thank you to Brett Blake
Moore for producing the show today. Thank you so much,
and thank you for listening to another episode of Here
we Go.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
We will have new episodes dropping every Thursday. Thank you.
I'm krly Zucker. Appreciate you listening to Here we Go.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Don't want to, don't wanna be use, don't wanna be down,
don't wanna.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Be down in crowd, don't want to darkness.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
To come back by me.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I don't want to be happy.
Welcome to a new episode of Here We Go with
Carly Zucker. As always, thank you guys so much for
taking the time to listen to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
There's a million podcasts out there, and.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
What I hope to do with this podcast is bring
people together with community who deal with things that are
very difficult. We all have struggles in our lives, whether
it's mental health, substance abuse, relationships, family, we all deal
with so many things. And so the more we can
build community to be there for each other, I think
is a much better thing. And honest, open communication stories
(00:43):
that help us and that's what I try to do
on Here we Go.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And so today my guest, we have we're giving Katie
a break. So my guest actually knows my sister really well,
which is fun.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
But we've been putting Katie on the hot seat mostly
so she deserves it. Yes, Steven Cantwell is joining me
right now, who we have such a great backstory and
we're going to talk all about that. But one of
the key pieces of our stories that my sister is
kind of our foundational piece of how we know each other.
(01:14):
Because you guys have golfed together at Midland Country Club
for a long time. So first, if you wouldn't mind
just introducing yourself. You've started a new business, but you've
also been I've talked about Bautaire where I went to treatment,
and you were heavily involved obviously with Botaire. So if
you want to just kind of give some background on
who you are, that would be awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah. So my name is Stephen.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Can'twell, I'd be remiss without just, first off, number one,
saying thank you for having me, right like, thank you
so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
It's so cool to see you flourish. It's so cool
to be here and to connect with you at this
level and in this kind of format.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
This is super super FUNU.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Stephen's seen me in treatment.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Stephen visited me while I was in treatment at Botaire.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I can't confirm, So yeah, he cannot conduct.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I can say it. I will say it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Steven does not say it, but it was and he
was such a key piece.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
For my family in navigating that journey.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But again, let's go back to who you are and
what you do. But I just wanted to jump in
with that.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
No, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I appreciate it and thank you for all the kind words,
and again, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And I'm really proud of you. I really am.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
It's it's super fun to watch. It's fun to watch
the life come back to people. So I've been been
sober for seventeen years April twenty four, two thousand and seven.
And you know, again, like I need to lead with
that because that is my life, right it is. Whether
I'm talking you know, through my sponsor or other people,
It's like that is the most important thing. My therapist,
my sponsor remind me all the time. It's like when
(02:40):
you list the things that are important in.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Your life, what is number one? Right?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And that is for me the fact that I am
a man in long term recovery. I've been sober since
April twenty four, two thousand and seven, and I'm a
drug addict and alcoholic and I have no shame with that.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I love it, right, like that is my life and so.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
That is a piece of who we are and a
big piece.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Huge and so I you know, I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts,
little town called Wellesley and came out here April twenty four,
two thousand and seven, like I mentioned, and built a
life and a career, and they've kind of done the deal,
you know, gotten plugged into recovery and people in community
and finished education and then started a career with Apple,
and then from Apple went to work for one of
(03:21):
the largest addiction treatment providers in the state of Minnesota
and kind of grew, you know, through, grew through that
organization and then after eleven plus years of that organization
and helping countless lives, which is just a huge passion
of mine, to be able to give back, you know,
I started a business in January of this year and
(03:41):
it's been absolutely gangbusters, super super fun to see the
growth and to just be able to help providers on
a national scale with operational efficiency, marketing strategy, marketing research,
structured growth, the whole nine yards and ultimately for the
betterment of helping is many people get access to care
(04:01):
as possible.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Right, And what's the business called, Just to give it
a shout.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Out business today, shout out C and C Consulting.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
So myself, Stephen Cantwell and my business partner who's also
one of my best friends, Aaron Cassoli, we've just we've
we've taken in and run with it and it's been
absolutely fantastic. It's like we we talked for a while
about you know, people are calling us all the time
about like how do I how do I do this
in my business? How do I do this in my business?
How do I, you know, create more access to more people?
How do I lead my marketing team? How do I
(04:30):
you know, create accountability and structure and KPIs and metrics
and all that stuff. And we would just give that
advice away for free, which we were happy to do, right.
It's like we're helping people. And then you know, when
I made the decision to leave the organization that I
work for, which was the hardest decision alive. I mean
I've built a program and scratch down in southern Minnesota
and helped grow this and that. Yeah, that's like I
(04:51):
remember the name Generation Session, right, it was like, what
are we going to name it? Are we going to
name it as a myth recovery center? It's like, no,
we don't want to do that, And we we created
this name bo It means beautiful Earth and it was
really really cool.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
But it's like I had so much invested in that.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
I mean I remember writing the business plan for it,
I remember doing the market research to support the viability
of the business case. And it was really hard to
walk away from that, but I knew it was the
right time and I had I had done everything that
I could at that organization and hardest decision where one
of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make, which
turned out to be one of the coolest things in
(05:25):
my life. And now I have this booming business and
you know, we're booked basically two years out and we're
helping a lot of people and at the end of
the day, we're helping people get access to care. And yeah,
I mean it's just so interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And again I think, what what's such a big piece
of having you on today is you know, I'm I'm
fairly new in recovery. You see Stephen now in long
term recovery, and it it's hopefully you.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Hear, the hope you hear.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I mean, I've always looked at you and been like
your energy, You're You're such an inspiration. I am constantly
when I speak to you, you just give me a
little bit more hope, always a little more inspiration.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And so that's a big piece of.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Why I wanted to have you on, because I want.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
People to hear your voice, to hear your story and
be inspired by you just like I was.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And so when one of the coolest things.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
About Botaire as you guys built it, and maybe you
can speak a little bit to this and to the
why you did it, But with Boutaire, I felt like
such a huge piece of being there was the mental
health piece Sure, tied to addiction, tied to substance abuse.
And not every place gives you that when you go
through the doors.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
For treatment or not gives you well.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Yeah, or doesn't give it to you. Well, but what
I found.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
There was that it tackled the reasons why I drink Sure,
and that was such a big piece for me. So
when you were going into creating the business plan and
going into the idea of that, did you those were
those pieces really crucial to you?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
When you think about just like business creation and you know,
whether it be you know, growing an existing business or
creating a new business, right, it's all about like, what
is what is the need?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
What is the market need? At least in my eyes?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Right, Like, so you do a bunch of research and
that research usually tells you like, hey, yes, there is
a need or no, there is not a need, right.
And so at that time, you know, I worked for
Meridian Behavioral Health, which was an organization that that's where
I worked for eleven years. They're the owner of Boteil
Recovery Institute, and so, you know, when I'd worked there
for probably a year and a half, two years, and
(07:35):
we were growing pretty rapidly and I was a part
of that growth, and I was I was helping get
a lot of people access to care, and it was
super exciting, and you know, we had this question and
the question was, Okay, do we just continue to expand
or is there an opportunity because Meridian at that time
was just a predominant Medicaid provider, right, so helping people
that either were using state and county and federal insurance
(07:57):
or we're using Medicaid insurance or you know, and to
so health plans to get access to care. And there
was really no commercial volume that was coming into coming
into both tear right.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
There.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
There wasn't a whole lot of people accessing commercial benefits
to get access to care.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And so what's interesting is we had this question.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
We're like, okay, what if we took the Maritean Care model,
which was one centered on you know, substance use disorder
and mental health, right and treating those in conjunction.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
What if we did that and catered it.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
To the commercially insured population, right, like folks like you
and I that are that have commercial benefits, would that
be viable?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Right?
Speaker 4 (08:34):
And you look at the state of Minnesota and you've
got a couple of fantastic other providers, right, you got
hazeled in great provider, predominantly twelve Step with you know,
definitely some foray into medication assistant treatment, and also you know,
mental health services and some pretty complex you know, mental
mental health services and medical services that they provide. Great provider,
so they you know, had quite a few, quite a
(08:55):
few beds in the state of Minnesota and also throughout
the nation. And then you have the retreat right, and
the retreat is kind of twelve step immersion program. John
Curtis their CEO. Of A ton of respect for that man, right, Yeah. Yeah,
they do tremendous work, and John's been a mentor of
mine for years. I can't say enough good stuff about
that gentlemen, for sure. But that being said, you know,
we looked at it. We're like Okay, if the state
(09:17):
of Minnesota really only has these two options, who's to
say that we can't take our model, which is really
one more centered on you know, integrated mental health and
you know this really kind of like evidence.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Based, eclectic approach to care.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
What if we cater that to folks like you and I, right,
and I did about six eight months, Market Research wrote
a situation analysis. That situation analysis became a business plan,
and it was all the voice of the people, right,
That's where all that research came from, and then basically
put it into form January. Here's the funny thing, right,
January January twenty eight, twenty fifteen, is when we opened
(09:55):
our doors. We were slated to open Botaire January first,
twenty fifteen, but the handicap accessible ramp right, yeah, to
get to the front door was off by two degrees no.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yeah, so in the heart of winter we had to
break down that.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We had to like redig it, and then we had
to rebuild that, make sure that it was up to
code and everything perfectly.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And because gooterere's an old mansion, basically it literally is
an old mansion.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, Gay conference center, Yeah, it was Daniel C. Gainey's.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
It was his his summer retreat right like had his horses.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And stuff like that. It was it was super cool.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
So we launched January twenty eight, twenty fifteenth, and yeah,
provided a lot of access to a lot of people.
And over the years it's just been so fun to
watch it, you know, grow and and just like with
the level of service that that you know gets, it
gets added all all the cool stuff that that we've
been able to do and how we've been able to
(10:51):
transform lives through the different care you know, opportunities that
are there and in quality staff and just again like
great engagement. It was just like really really cool to
watch it it grow. But it was all centered on
this point of being like hey, rather than just play
the game like a lot of providers do. That is
like okay, well we're going to treat the substance use disorder. Yeah,
(11:13):
and then we're gonna treat them in health. It's like,
well what if we marry that too and we treat
everything and conjunction together.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, you know, and I.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Think that's something that really resonated with you your experience.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That is what I needed.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, it's like, you know, you can't you can't play
whack a mole and try to like do this and
then do this, and then do this and then do this.
It's like, what if we treat each person as an individual, right,
understand what really matters to them, and then from there,
you know, build treatment plans that are specific to what
their needs are, right, whether it be substance use disorder
related or you know, mental health related, and just treating
(11:46):
things coquering disorders in conjunction is where the industry was
going at that time, and it still is today. I mean,
probably ninety nine percent of people accessing treatment today have
a coaquering disorder, right, and let's bring awareness to that, right, like,
so that we can appropriately treat people.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Rather than.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
You know, just kind of ignore one and treat the other.
Because again, that's where a lot of that recidism comes from.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Said yeah, yeah, you're gonna end up with a lot
of relapse then.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And that's why I wanted everybody listening to hear from
Stephen is because this approach I thought was so benefit
and everybody is so different when it comes to recovery.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So what might work for one person might not for
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But one of the biggest things I've heard from people
who are listening to this podcast are wow. Marrying the
two the integrated health is something I hadn't really thought
about or something that I hadn't really had an opportunity
to do.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
I do want to talk about your recovery me. Yeah,
so let's go back seventeen plus years.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Let's go way way back.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Well, I was a wee lad oh we the Massachusetts exactly.
I didn't have this white hair, this gray hair, whatever
you want to call it.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
So funny, my like Hairstylish is a dear friend of mine.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
She's like, I'm like, man, I really got to start
falling in love with his hair colored, don't I? And
she's like, Stephen, you don't. She's like, people pay money
to have the color hair.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Okay, So anybody listening and not watching it, like if
we do have video of this, so you got to
go to the Here We Go podcast dot com to
link to the videos and stuff and on my social
But Stephen has the greatest color hair.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
And I didn't know you didn't, Like, you have to
love it.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I have now. I mean it's been years of me
loving it.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
But it's just when someone says sober fox like that's
what like you are the definition of that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Oh I guess, Oh I love it too funny but yeah,
I mean again I.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Got so what did you?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I mean, what did your when you share your story,
when you talk about your story? What how did how
did you know everything start?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I mean I think it's listen and it's so interesting
too because just with recovery.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And again I love speaking about recovery.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, Like it's just it is so near. Indeed, it
gives you the chills to talk about it. I mean,
this is my life today, right, and I have so
much to kind of say about that. But it's interesting,
like I think for all of us, like there's so
much similarity, right like, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
It's like, what's your story, what's your story? What's your story?
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And it's like it's all the same story, just with
different specifics, right like.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
And why did we all start drinking it like four times?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I don't know?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Why?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Is that?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Like the early Like there's.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Something about when I walked into Botairet was like everybody's like, oh, yeah,
that's the same Aida.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
There's something wildly like similar about that.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, we're uncomfortable in our own skin you know, this
is what it is. And you know, and I grew
up with two beautiful parents. Yeah, wonderfully they loved me
so much, right, Like we didn't want for anything.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Now.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
We grew up in a culture and grew up in
a family where you work for what you had, right,
Like my dad was a very successful executive Gillette, and
my mother was a stay at home mom. And prior
to that, she was a geneticist, right, she studied chromosomes,
like it was really really cool. And I come from
just a long line of success, right, And so for me,
you know, I like I just always felt I always
(14:53):
felt off, like I had something to prove, or like
I didn't have a voice, right. And I've done so
much work on that, just like personally through recovery and
just through other places, and there are so many great
services out there for anybody struggling with that kind of stuff.
But that being said, I just I just felt lost, right,
Like I was always seeking, right, Like I was wanted
to be popular, but I wasn't popular.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I always wanted to have a voice, but I couldn't
speak up for myself, right, And you know, I just
found comfort in I found comfort in drugs and alcohol
and the people that did.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
And it's so funny because the majority of my life
and I lived under the diagnosis is having OCD, right,
Because like there were some things that happened in elementary school, right,
and that like you know, had different varying levels of
trauma and and I just didn't know how to react.
And like my reaction to those things was like some anxiety,
(15:44):
anxiety behaviors that also manifested themselves as like OCD symptoms.
So I'd like sit in a therapist's office and they'd
be like, oh, classic OCD. And it wasn't until I
came to Minnesota, got sober and did like five to
seven years. I can't remember the exact timeframe, five to
seven years with my therapist, who was just one of
(16:07):
my guiding lights, right, Like, and he's like Steven, He's like,
you don't have OCD. I'm like what wait, what?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
What? What?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
She's like, you know, and he just explained the whole thing,
and it was just it was wild. But yeah, So
I I just found comfort as a kid in you know, feeling.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I was so lost.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
I just felt I felt so comfortable being out of body, right,
so drugs, alcohol, like the partying in the whole nine yards.
And I continued all the way through through high school.
That continued all the way through college. Right Like, in college,
I had some very alarming things happened, like out a
DUI like almost drove a car off a cliff in college,
right like, and just all this crazy stuff. And I
(16:49):
was putting myself in just like horrific situation, very very
risky you know, in the city, like picking up you know,
copious amounts of drugs, and like, you know, that was
a part of my story. And that being said, you know,
it just I feel so fortunate in my recovery and
in my story because I did have a point, right
like I had. I had gotten sober prior to coming
(17:10):
to Minnesota at a place called McLain Hospital, Belmont, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Say do great work.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I had just actually stolen a car and got arrested
for that. And then when they you know, did a
you'reine test on me, a you know, pop positive for
quite a few things. And so I got kind of
put into McLain the hospital, and I was sober for
like a year, but it apparently it just wasn't bad enough,
right like, and so I went back and I relapsed
and you know, moved to Rhode Island and then from
(17:35):
there just continue to do what I was doing. And again,
like life just I feel so fortunate because for me
and my story, and I don't need to go into
all the specifics, but like there's a lot of people
that don't have like that rock bottom or don't have
like that like point where like life is so bad
that they make a decision, and I was. I was
so so fortunate because I remember it like clear as day.
(17:59):
I was sitting on the steps of the Providence Place
mall right working there. I think I just got fired
from like pacsun, you know what I mean, like give
me a break, right, And I was sitting on the
steps of the Providence Place mall and my life at
that point, you know, I was done stealing, I was
done lying, I was done terrorizing people.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I was done dealing drugs. I was using. I got
hit by something.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
I don't know what it was, but I sat there
and I was like, I cannot do this anymore. I
cannot And I don't know where that came from, but
it came over me like a ton of bricks and
it was just like, my life is so bad, I
cannot do this anymore. And I called my folks and
I was like, I need help, right, And it's like,
(18:43):
and I don't know how that happened. Maybe it was
just the culmination of just so much bad stuff and
so many risky situations and just like horrific events over
years and years and years and years and years of
use and failed treatment, et cetera, et cetera. Just like
maybe I was so lost internally, it was so unmageable.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
My life was get so exhaustive to you, Oh my god, I.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Was tired and and I mean it gives me the
chills again to just even talk about it. I remember making
that phone call and forty eight hours later I walked
into Hazelin Center for Youth and Families, which is now
Hazel and Plymouth here in Minnesota. And it's so funny
because I think they max out at like age twenty five,
(19:26):
and I was like a twenty three year old. My
roommate was like fourteen. They were just like eating starburst
all day.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Long, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
It's just like but that was like the start of
my recovery, right and perfect pair exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I like it you know, I did treatment there.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I went from there to a place that was not
as nice called Cockranhouse at the time, and did kind
of like the extended care or whatever here in Minnesota.
And then from there I found my way to a
silber house in Saint Paul, where I met some great
friends and started going to meetings and things like that.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
And like from there, my roommate happened to work for
like a staffing firm, and that staffing firm, you know,
was connected at like placing people for the launch of
the iPhone and so like it's just crazy how like
all the pieces come together. And so I was like
going to meetings and then I got this job like
doing technical support on the launch of the first iPhone
and so.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Like, which is wild. Why you worked for hopp.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Like yeah, like two thousand and seven, Like yeah, two
thousand and seven.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Like let's say you're calling, Yeah, right, so you're calling
and you're like, I don't know how to use my iPhone.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Like I'm the guy with like a year play.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I think it was like fifteen to eighteen months of sobriety.
I'm the guy who was like power it on power
it off, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Power, Yeah, our cycle.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Your phone, And I'm like looking through the literature, like okay,
well how do I how do I explain this stuff?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
And I'm like going to all the troubles. She's like
I was that guy, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
And and then from there, you know, I worked my
way up kind of through that and then ended up
moving into kind of the retail side of things and
started as kind of like a product specialist and then
an expert, and then worked with our business team at
Apple and did that and then took a complete leap
of faith leaving Apple. And I had listen people ask
me that all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
They're like, how did you leave Apple? Like why did
you leave Apple?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
They're like, that's the most recognizable brand in the world.
I mean, I was sitting there in like the break
room with these these long term Apple employees right that
were like.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Oh, I need to buy a new car.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Let me just cash out some of my Apple stuff,
And I'm like, holy smokes, Like these are a long
time enthusiasts.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I'm like, why would you leave Apple?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And I'm like, well, when in life are you given
the opportunity. I mean, I'm living on borrowed time at
that time anyways, right, And I got stuff to say
about that as well, But people ask it, I'm like,
I say, I'm like, when in life are you given
the opportunity to do not only what you are most
passionate about, which is the field of recovery, the field
(21:46):
that gave me my life back, and also like what
you went to school for?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Right, Because all the while I was at Apple, Like.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I went back and I got to petition to get
my lehah university degree through taking class at the University
of Minnesota. I had some advocates that knew my story
and they went to bat for me, and like I
they got to extend the graduation rule. I mean, like
my story is so wild, right, Like I had people
that I didn't even know coming out of the woodwork
like advocating for me. And I'm like, where are these
people coming from?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Like how am I? How am I so lucky? So blessed? Right?
But people believed in me? Right, And that's so wild,
And that's part of why, like I think maybe I
show up with the level of energy I do today.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Is like sometimes people just need a little belief. Yeah, yeah,
you know, they need they need a little bit, they
need a little belief, They need somebody to you know.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
They need some hard to champion them sometimes and just
when especially when they're they're they're not feeling it themselves.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And so you know, like I totally lost my turn
of thought there.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But no, no, and well I did want to circle
back to the borrowed time you made that comment.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You said, I want to talk more about that. What
is it about that that you wanted to talk about?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Oh, well, I'll go there and just one second, I
just remember so basically, so the whole deal about you know, like, oh,
leaving Apple.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
People ask me, I'm like, here I was.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I was given this opportunity to go work in the
addiction treatment space, which is the field that gave me
my life back.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And what I I'm most passionate about, like and what
I went to school for, right, Like, I went to
school for.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Marketing business develpment, like business economics. That's my degree is in,
and that's where I jumped from. That's where I jumped
from essentially working at Apple to go working in behavioral
healthcare and Meridian. Right, it was so wild and then
from there, like my career just took off and it
was so so so cool and so so back to
the to the bottom to the to the borrowed time one.
(23:26):
And the crazy thing too about just the like doing
what you love is like most people don't even get
the opportunity to day to like do what they they
went to school for.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, you know what I mean, let alone what they.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Right, Yeah, And so like that was just it was
just so cool for me how all these doors kind
of opened and doors I didn't see and then it
was just like, oh my gosh. But just like the
living on borrowed time stuff, it's so wild. It's like
people ask me all the time, they're like, would you
change anything?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
And this, this this specifically over the last two years
has like been so relevant, so relevant because often in
my life and probably the first fifteen, maybe thirteen fourteen
fifteen years of my sobriety, you know, I'd be like, oh, man,
would it have been any different? Like if I had
just like graduated Lehigh and gone to work in financial
services like everybody else at Lehigh in New York City
(24:12):
and lived that life and whatever, And I'm just like, no.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I don't want that life. I'm like the life that
I have.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Today, right, like with recovery at the at the crux
of it all, right, like with recovery as the pinnacle,
right and the family relationships I have, the friendships, my
beautiful significant other.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, like I just I am so lucky.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
No, if all the stuff in my life that happened
led me to where I am today, sitting here with
you talking about recovery, you know, and watching you flourish
and just being a part of this whole process and
the life that I have, then you know what, Like, no,
I would not change a thing.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
I wouldn't change a thing, not a freaking thing.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I mean, here I said, forty one years old, with
the whitest hair you could possibly see, and I.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Am so grateful for my life.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Doesn't mean that everything every day is perfect, right, Like
of course, at the end of the day, Like the
easiest part is getting sober, the hardest part is the
work that follows, you.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
But that being said, there's just so much help available
and the living on borrowed time. The other thing that's
been a huge theme for me this year has been
showing up right, Like we lost Jackie Mike, my significant.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Other, we lost her dad.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
You know, we lost her dad in January, and like
it coincided with me choosing to leave my organization and
then building this new company. But it all worked in
a way where like in that period of time when
we he you know, he passed away very quickly, right like,
I got to show up.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I got to show up.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
To be NonStop. I had nothing in my way. I
got to show up. I got to hold his hand,
right like, I got to be there for him when
he took his last breath, right Like I got to
ask for you know, her hand in marriage to him
the day that.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
He died, with her present. Like how sad but beautiful
is that? Right? Like that's a gift of recovery.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
And so what's so wild And I was sharing about
this at a meeting, is like this whole borrowed time concept.
And I for a lot of years in my recovery,
I said, God, there's no good reason I should be
alive today. There's no good reason, right like the deck
was stacked against me, the cards were not in my favor.
There's no good reason that I should be alive today.
(26:23):
And you know what's wild is that's not true. There
is absolutely a reason that I'm alive today. And what
I just shared is is that case in point. Right Like,
I was alive so that I could show up for
Jackie when she lost her dad, right Like, I got
to have that experience with her.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I got to show up NonStop.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
I'm alive today so I can show up in people's
lives so that I can help businesses, that I can
help people.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
You showed up in my life truly for my family too.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, And I mean that's just what we're doing.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
We're conditioned to be of service to others, right like,
which is.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
A big part of recovery.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yeah, I mean it is what it is, right trust God,
clean house and help others, right Like, how can I
be of service to you?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
How can I be of service to anybody else? Right Like?
That's what was given to me. People I know, people
I don't know, went.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Out of their way to pave a way for me,
you know, whether it be like AA or sobriety related
or whether it be life related, because that's married for me,
you know what I mean. They went out of their
way to provide opportunity for me. I mean, starting with
like my parents, right like, providing the open door for
me to get to Hazelton, Yeah, to get sober.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
My father was about as senior and executive as you
can be at Gillette, and he's like knocking on the
medical director of Jillett's door being like, hey, I need
you to help me get my son authorized time, you
know what I mean? Like I had all these people
going to bed. I mean, I get my parents, my brothers, right,
like God, the amount of trauma that I created in
that family system, and they all continued to show up me.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So what can I do today? Right?
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I can extend a hand. I can help others that
are struggling. I can show up for my family. I
can be a loving brother, I can be a loving son. Right,
I can be a loving relative to anybody.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
I mean my phone rings all day long, people that
need help, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I always pick up because what you got to do?
They did that for me, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
And so yeah, I don't believe in the whole like
borrowed time concept anymore. I don't believe in the whole
like I shouldn't be here, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Because I should be.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Here and what had changed in perspective? Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
That's one of the gifts and recovery is a having perspective, yeah,
and then be being open enough to experience the shift, right.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
And it's like, I mean, I go to a place
every single year called on Site Workshops in Tennessee, and
they do some of the best workshops, right like professional growth,
professional leadership, living centered.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
All that stuff. They do some of the best workshops.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
In helping us understand who we are and then pivoting.
They got this tagline around the two degree shift, and
boy does it make sense. It's like small changes we
don't really recognize, but enough of those two degree shifts
over time is a complete pivot, you know what I mean.
And it's like I try to embrace that in my
life every single day. But I'll tell you what, Like,
you know, I'm not religious by any means, but I'm
(29:22):
a proud member of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I don't feel
any shame saying.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
That at all.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And you know, my relationship with God a power grid
of myself, and you know, that's been probably one of
the most impactful things in my recovery.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I'd have a sponsor.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
And it's so interesting because you know, I when I
first I was I was really struggling in early recovery,
right like yours, one, two, three, because I like grew
up Catholic, and I was like, oh, I'm just I'm
gonna you know, I understand the God concept, right, I
understand that stuff. And so for me, steps were like, oh,
I'll skip one through three because I think I've got
that in the bag, and we'll go right to four.
(29:56):
And you know what's interesting is that, like it wasn't
until I just continue to connect with my sponsor and
he's like, hey, let me know when you want to
start praying or like connecting to someone outside yourself, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And I'm like, I got this, dude, I got this.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And like my life kept being terrible because all I
would do is act on the same behaviors that kept
me I've already got, you know, And I would just
keep banging my head against the wall.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
And and I.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Remember, like it was like three or four years into sobriety,
I finally took his advice, you know, and he was
so kind and so generous kind of sharing that with me,
and and I'm just like all right, fine, And I
started hitting my knees, you know, and I didn't worry
about like what I was going to say or the
whole God thing or whatever right because my religious.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
Who it is, what it is, Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
But I just focused on every single night, no matter
where I was hitting my knees and being intentional about
that process. And I'll tell you what, like, change my
change my recovery, change my life for the better.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
So I haven't.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I haven't missed the day and years that is fourteen
something years.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Another thing that you touched on that I thought was
really important for people listening.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Is the step.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So you know, I think somebody listening the idea of
approaching recovery if you haven't or approaching you know, getting
help with mental health. That it's not a linear process
necessarily and it's not something that you need to beat
yourself up. But I mean, I think both of us
have known people that have been.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Through multiple treatments for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Or and the fact that you took the time then
to go to Hazeldin and then you took time and
it sound like sober living and other places, so it
is it is a process total and do not if
you go into treatment and there you know, you you
feel really good after a week, right and treatment or
something and you're like, I got this.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I got this. Rely on the people around you, sure,
and the.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
People who are a little bit ahead of you maybe
and have the education, and the people in long term recovery.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Rely on their advice.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Because one of the things that was like, don't leave early.
I was going to leave a day early from Boutaire.
I did thirty four days and I'm thirty three. I
was like, I'm good, I'm gonna go because I did
thirty days, and it was I was gonna have two
days between going to there an ape and all points north,
my trauma center that I went to in Colorado. And
(32:17):
they got my sister on the phone at Bautaire and
pulled me into a room and they're like, you really
want to leave, Like do you think that's the best idea?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
And what's it going to look like if you.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Go home and you're not quite ready, or you have
a gap between going to Colorado and you decide not
to go, or you you know.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Have have too much time between. So I stayed. I
listened to them.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I listened to someone who loved me, which was my
sister who was on the phone. I listened to the
professionals at Bautaire, and I said, Okay, I'm just going
to stay.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
And so if you have the.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Privilege and the ability to do so, I would say take.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
The time one hundred. I mean, follow the recommendations. Take
the time.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
It's so funny because like, you know, we're all can
conditioned to think that we know it all. Oh yeah,
like it is what it is, right, And it's like
there's all those things like our best thinking got us here,
you know what I mean. We didn't come in on
a hot three gro winning streak or whatever.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
And it's it's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Though, but just given a little bit of like peace, right,
Like if you think about the internal battle, and none
of us chose to be drug addicts alcoholics, right, the
disease of addiction is recognized just like any other disease
like cancer, diabetes, et cetera, eter etcetera. And so it's
so interesting too write because it's like we didn't choose this, no,
but there is help and there is a solution if
we choose to accept it. Right. And so when we
(33:30):
think about treatment and a treatment episode and treatment experience, right,
like it's not a linear process.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
You know, sometimes it feels like I Stephen Campbell like.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Running a hurdles race and I'm not making it over
one hurdle, you know what I mean, Which I'm a
six or four guy, and like by all intensive purposes,
I should be able to jump over her. Yeah, but no,
I'm just like reckoning them, you know, one after the other, right,
because that's what it is. It's like starts stop, start, stop,
starts stop, and sometimes you know, and it was for me,
like relapses part of the story, right, And also for
(33:59):
me what's part of the story is like following recommendations
and accepting the help, right, Like it's so important in
our in the field of addiction treatment and in receiving
help and getting sober and all that stuff. It's like
fall the recommendations, right, like go to the next step provider, right,
and then go to the next step provider, and then
go to the next step provider, right. Like I would
(34:20):
encourage anybody who's accessing treatment or getting help or whatever
to never say no to more services, you know what
I mean, Like take everything you can, right, because those
are the tools that you're gonna need when when.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Life gets hard.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
And like I said before, you know, like the easy
parts getting sober, you know, and by no means mistake
what I say, Like, getting sober is extremely difficult, right,
but it's the work to stay sober. It's the work
that follows that's super, super difficult. And so like for you, you
made the right call, you know what I mean, to
like go from door to door, right and.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
To embrace that I was gonna stay sober long term
and have the chance to.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
One hundred percent and you need that stuff. And and
like for me, like I very likely would not be
where I am today if I didn't go to treatment
and then go to the next step provider and then
go to a sober home and then you know, get
plugged into a recovery community.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Whatever that is, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yeah, even if I was like you know, bucking my
head along the way and not really wanting to not
really wanted to be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
And if you experienced it it and something doesn't feel
like a fit, don't give up. You know, there's so
many opportunities and options out there.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
For sure, don't ever give up, Like, don't ever give up.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
And here's the thing. There are also like so many
services out there for people to help, like families and
systems do repairative work or to guide them into the
treatment process and what are quality options because it's a
very murky space out there too, and it's tough and
it's hard to know where to go and why.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Good time to remind people you connected me Pam Landhart,
who was a guest on The rock Star who started.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Thrive and she's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
And I can't say Thrive enough because I mean, just
google it and Pam Landhart and she has been able
to provide information and education for people and families and
that is so valuable.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Oh, we're gonna wrap this.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I just, I mean, my heart is so full for you,
Like I just, I can't thank you enough for your
involvement in my recovery.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
And again I talk.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
A lot about the support people in my life, and
Stephen has been a big support person in my life
and my family. And when I say that, you know
my sister, everybody my family was like, we don't know
what to do while she's in recovery. What do we
do to help her while she's in treatment? And they
had you to lean on, and so thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
No, thank you.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Listen, it's a privilege. It's a privilege to be sitting
here today. It's a privilege to watch you flourish. You're
a prime example of like if you do the work,
you get the results.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
And so you know, I just can't thank you enough
and thank you for what you've given to my life. Yeah, right,
and just the ways that you've been able to show up.
And I'm always here for you. I got a lot
of love for you, and I'm so proud much.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
And here's the other thing I'll say to the audience
or listeners, right, is that like help is available.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yes, it's always available.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
So whether it's you or whether it's me or whatever,
like look us up, make the phone call, send the message.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Like it's a privilege to be able to provide services
or to provide recommendations or even just an ear or
a shoulder or whatever to anybody out there. Right, Like
help is available, yep, right, Like reach out, please please
reach out. And if I can do anything to help anybody, listener,
you're obviously you anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Right, Like let me know, I said, I said, my
dms are open, you know, if you can email me
or DM me, they're open. And I mean that and
I've been able to respond and connect with people. And
for privacy purposes, I want everybody to know, like what
you talk to me about and in recovery, we had
the anonymity and the way we respect each other's privacy
(38:09):
is so deeply respected. And so I just want you
to know, like, if you ever reach out and if
you ever need anything, whether it's an ear or it's
somewhere to connect you to something anything, that I'm here.
And so I don't know if you want to give
any information on your socials or anything that you could.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Look it up, but feel free reach out whenever you want.
I mean, my Instagram is at some called Stephen kind
of a weird weird.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
There's sneak sneaker heads.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
If you're a sneaker guy or gal, Stephen has the
best ones.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
On the planet.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
It's exactly right.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
It's lower on the list of like the gifts of recovery,
but man, it's given me an opportunity to do something
that I love, which is is collect sneakers.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
And I've been a long time collector for a long
long time.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
So if hey, if you don't connect on mental health,
substance or anything, we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But you love sneakers, you can find right.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, yeah, please reach out to me. DM.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
You know I'm I'm around, you know I'm available, and literally,
my life's work is helping people in organizations find access
to care and give them a fighting chance.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
So whatever I can do, I think you know firsthand,
I do.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, very first I will do whatever I can to
help anybody out there, So please send me messages.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Awesome, Steven can't well, thank you so much for joining me,
for sharing your story, for your recovery, for your support, everything.
It really means so much to me. And again, I
hope this conversation for anybody listening feels inspiring and gives
you some hope and also shows you what a recovery
relationship looks like, because my relationships with friends and family
(39:46):
who maybe aren't in recovery or I've dealt with this are.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
Wonderful and beautiful and great.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
But I hope listening to Stephen and I connect shows
you that when you get into.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
This world of recovery, you create relationships.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That are unlike anything else.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
And here's the last thing I'll say, and I said
it when we walked in here too, is like, we
don't have to suffer in silence. No, you know what
I mean, We did that enough in our lives, so yeah,
talk about it, right, Like, let's normalize the conversation around
substance use disorder and mental health. Let's normalize the conversation
about resources being available and let's.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Talk about it.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Let's get better together, Let's.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Get better together. Let's help as many people as possible.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, Oh, you're the best.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And I want to say thank you to Brett Blake
Moore for producing the show today. Thank you so much,
and thank you for listening to another episode of Here
we Go.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
We will have new episodes dropping every Thursday. Thank you.
I'm krly Zucker. Appreciate you listening to Here we Go.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Don't want to, don't wanna be use, don't wanna be down,
don't wanna.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Be down in crowd, don't want to darkness.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
To come back by me.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
I don't want to be happy.
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