Hops & Hogs BBQ 02/09/24 - The Rough Draft

The debut episode of Hops & Hogs! Aaron and Jon of Northern Fire Grilling & BBQ Supply, along with Ken Smith at Heavy Rotation Brewing, join Nordo to combine the love of BBQ and Brew. This episode accomplished very important first steps....making sure the equipment works, and hammering out a purpose to this podcast.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi there. My name is EricNordquist from KFAAN Radio in Minneapolis. I'm
also a barbecue addict, and that'swhy I'm starting a podcast, Welcome to
Hopson Hoggs. My goal is tocombine the local barbecue community and the local
beer community into one conversation. Well, while I love both, I'm not

(00:22):
an expert in either category. SoI enlisted the help of my friends Aaron
Bordage and John Hansen from Northern FireGrilling and Barbecue Supply in Minnetaka, and
Ken Smith, owner of Heavy RotationBrewing in Brooklyn Park. It's the Hops
and the Hogs. Here's Hopson HoggsEpisode one. What are we drinking here?

(00:45):
That's the Hopson Hoggs. My wholegoal when starting this podcast was to
combine two things that if you listento the fan, and maybe you don't
listen to the fan, but you'reinto the same stuff that I am smoking
elite meets on your griller, smokerand having good beers along the way.
And one of my buddies I firstmet at a different brewery and now he

(01:06):
and another couple guys own Heavy RotationBrewing in Brooklyn Park. So I wanted
to bring Ken Smith. I didn't. Just that's gonna be the bit ken
is when you come in and joinus, Thank you for bringing them.
Aime, I'm just gonna ask whatthe hell are we drinking? Sure,
and then you tell us and thenwe drink it. Yeah. So I
brought a couple different beers for youguys. I know you guys are kind
of light beer enthusiasts, So Ibrought a Final Finals coolsh super easy drinking.

(01:32):
We call it garage beer, Iguess for this, say of this,
it's grilling beer as well. Right, little fruity, super easy drinking
coming in at four point four percent, So you can have like a hundred
of them while you're smoking meat onyour trigger for however long you need to
smoke it for, and then followthat with a little mass appeal Vienna Logger.
So it's gonna have a little caramelcharacteristic sue, it a little roasty,

(01:55):
little smoky, so it goes parisperfectly with the food that you did
smoke. Right, So the FinalFinals drink before mass appeal of Vianna Logger
and drink while you're eating is whatI would suggest. I'm gonna be honest.
I was way too serious of anexplanation. I know it was detailed.
I loved it. I've almost kindof put it on. Do you
have a podcast voice? Ken givean alter ego, Hey, I do

(02:16):
host a meat raffle every Wednesday,so I gotta put on the voice every
once in a while. You don'tsound the same as you sounded when we
were talking over at at a nearbyrestaurant here just about ten fifteen minutes ago.
Yeh, But you churched it upfor the podcast, didn't for the
podcast. It's special for you guys. You know, I drove five hundred

(02:38):
feet over there by the way.Yeah, if you know what, you'll
know what place he's talking about ifyou look at it. Where did you
park? I mean you drove fivehundred feet in probably parked three hundred feet
away. It was inconvenient. ActuallyI parked in the back. It was
a little windy. And then didyou drive back here again? Yeah?
Yeah, jeeps out front. Iwas gonna give him a little leeway because

(02:58):
I thought maybe he was wearing shortsbecause it as a warm winter. Now
he's wearing jeans. Yeah, sowell, and you had to get out
of our parking spot because you weregoing to the bar and it's parking for
us, right, so for justbeing courteous, Yes, absolutely, Hops
and Hoggs. I was hoping togather the ambiance. Now you guys have

(03:20):
closed for the day, but atsome point I'd love to do something like
this where we're hanging out talking aboutbarbecue, and John's like, well,
I gotta go. I gotta gosell a smoker real quick and get the
ambiance. And you know that's whereyou guys and I met was I was
a customer and ultimately you guys wereapproaching also the radio station for you know,

(03:40):
getting your name out there right,and you guys started a business.
As everyone has always said, theabsolute perfect time is right before a massive
pandemic in twenty twenty. And that'swhere I became a covid Era convert.
That's really when I when I started, I moved. I lived in Brooklyn

(04:01):
Park speaking of that, actually nottoo far away from where Ken's Brewery is,
and I moved down to Chasca andtrying to furnish the place, get
everything going absolutely honeydew List, etc. I'm like, well, one thing
for me, I mean I geta grill please, and I roll into
this store and it was like Toysr Us for mid thirties adults who love

(04:26):
standing either in their driveway or onthe deck smoking and grilling. Unbelievable spot
you guys have here. But that'show we met, in the midst of
you guys making this business grow.Happy early or belated fourth anniversary by the
way, March thirty coming up.But I have to imagine now, you
guys didn't start in twenty twenty theway I did, but your business started.

(04:49):
There's got to be a lot ofCOVID era converts like me. It
was a huge five six years ago, you know whatever, you know,
Broughts and dogs, right, acouple of burgers, you know, throw
some ninety three seven that you hadpre paddied from the grocery store, and
it's just trying to get the kidsfed to now really becoming an art form

(05:11):
and really a booming industry, rightoh yeah, yeah. And the cool
thing is to watch people get intolike differing cuts because the longer we I
always said that when after COVID,when we had we sold so many girls
and smokers during COVID, and soit's not quite what you that was the
heyday for barbecue, but you know, and everybody's doing pork shoulder and ribs

(05:32):
or whatever. And I always saidthat one of the two things is gonna
happen after we get out of thispandemic. Either either we're gonna go on
Facebook marketplace and there's gonna be justa glut of triggers and green mountains out
there for sale, I said,or people are gonna stick with it and
have fun. And I think that'sexactly what we've seen, is that people
are like, this is cool,it's fun. My neighbors do it.

(05:54):
Everybody. It's it's all the youknow, we have these cul de sac
rib wars and it's great. Andthen also on top of that is what
else can I cook on this now? Right? Yeah? The fish is
the different cuts of steaks. Yeah, obviously there's the briskets and all the
mainstays, but there's so many otherthings out there that you can cook on

(06:15):
these things. Yeah, ultimately,my mission, you know, whether it's
via this podcast or you know,if you guys, you guys have heard
on the show, I'll mention it. And I've been I've had the opportunity
to endorse you guys in the pastas well. Which is sweet. Yeah,
weekdays not to noon. Oh sorry, Yeah, we talked about sports
and we're home with the Vikings.We're home of the wild, We're home

(06:38):
for the howl. Listen, I'llcheck it out. We're home for golfer
sports. Well. Ben Johnson's Gophersquad three in a row, right,
just beat Izzoe Party at the Barn. Oh yeah. But the thing for
me is the challenge, right isyou you cook that first thing that by
all the and again this is thisis where you could do one hundred different

(07:00):
podcasts, bring one hundred people inhere, and you'd have fifty different opinions
on a finished product. Right yeah. The ribs probably the most classic example
of that. And you guys arein the competition game, so you know
that's that's a different universe on itsown, which I do want to get
to at some point. But onceyou make that first perfect thing, the

(07:21):
only thing you want to do well. First of all, you kind of
want to make the same thing overand over again. That's specialty, right
there. Oh yeah, absolutely,I don't know how to do this.
Oh if you guys, you know, feed it to my grandparents. Oh,
they love those bone dry ribs thatI completely messed up. Oh,
they absolutely love it. But thefirst time, like you put the you

(07:44):
put the claws into the pork buttand like the bone fell out as you're
taking the foil off. I mean, those are moments, and so you
just want to tackle that next challenge. It's it's I mean, in a
culture, in a society that findsvarious ways to get addicted to very his
things, addicted to grilling, addictedto smoking, in that next challenge,

(08:05):
like that's entertainment. It's unbelievably,you know it. It's it's the best
form, like other than like youknow, smoking all day and then you
know at the end of the dayyou've got your buddies over and you're you're
a six pack in and you knowyou're you're playing it out. Your food's
good. It's it's a party.I mean, it's just it's the best.
It reminds me of if you guyshave seen the movie Tommy Boy Chris

(08:30):
Farley, he's he's like, RT, I lost my virginity to your daughter.
Rob you were there and and thatwas me doing beef ribs for the
first time and they turned out perfect. And in this case, John was
there, thank god. To witnessthe entire thing. Tree falls in the

(08:52):
forest and no one is there tohear it. Did it happen? There
were there? I don't trust thedaughters. Love my neighbors. I love
my neighbors. But I needed you, guys, one of you. You
know, I'm just a little puppy, little baby Nords to affirm what what
I had made, and that wasfor me, and that was I've made
a million things that I think haveturned out great. But this last summer,

(09:16):
those beef ribs, I mean,as good as it got. And
you just want to make them easy. You just want to make them over
and over and over again. Youguys are talking a lot about the great
things you've made, right, what'sthe worst thing you've made? Like You're
like, I'm gonna try I cando ribs, I can do brisk and
I can do whatever, but I'mgonna try something different. Oh, I
just everything up. Yeah, Imean, that's the thing is is you'd

(09:37):
mess everything up, sure, butwhat was the was a colossal failure.
Yeah, man, I got tothink about that. I've had a lot
of judges tell me, though you'vebeen cooking competition, Barber Croup great years
and here's your sixes instead of nines. But that's another story for another day.
It's funny you asked that question.I was thinking about that earlier today
because I was thinking about topics totalk about today, and it was like,

(10:00):
yeah, failures, and one ofthem was he doing competitions, And
like you said, we'll get intothat later on. But missing a turn
in time huge colossal failure. Youput all that time in and all that
and you missed that turn in timeand all for nothing. Colossal failure.
But is there has there been anythingthat you've put on the trigger or any

(10:24):
other grilling thing where you're like,I can't eat this, this is awful.
Well, yeah for me, andI have I may think of it.
Yeah, this is where I'm kindof getting into, like the meat
matters, the quality of the meat. I've told you guys about this,
but those listening to the podcast Imet this. It was like a five
pound pork butt. So it wasjust a little baby guy that done a

(10:46):
butt burrow. That not a butt. Well okay, but you had a
piece of pork. I had apiece effectively a piece of port. Yes,
it's a part of it. AndI'm sitting yeah, and I tried
to go through the same process thatI would for a larger set, and
I smoked that thing to death.It was the driest PORKU. Yeah,
it was the most disgusting thing thatI've ever eaten. It's amazing. There

(11:11):
is a magic point for pork whereit's like, oh, this is good,
and then if you're little on oneside, it's dry too far on
the other side of it's porkku.It was just it was so hideous.
And that's where like at my house, like my wife's great about it.
She and I similar tastes in termsof foods and things, but the kid's
vastly different my two daughters. Whenmy kids love it, that's almost a

(11:35):
bona fides. I mean that isan absolute like you messed something up if
the kids love it. Kids couldn'tget enough of it. Kids couldn't get
enough of it, the pork go. I mean your kids, you're young
enough that they did. It wasn'tthat long ago they were eating you know,
pork out of a little jar.Yeah right, I mean, if
you think about it basically, likethe baby bird. Yeah, I never

(11:58):
did that. By the way,did you ever see like we had a
friend that We went hung out ofa brewery the other day and they had
the pouch of chicken goo essentially whereit was like baby food you're talking about
the pork stuff whatever. It waslike a pouch like the apple sauce containers
you'll see, right for the kids, eat just chicken chicken for a child.

(12:18):
We have the same thing at home, but therefore our cats and we
get them at a big chainsaw petstore thing. That's what I thought it
was, was for cats except forfive and under. Is that lady feeding
cat food to her child? Maybe? I don't know. Kind of brewery
here? Check this out. Itwasn't at our place. Do you guys

(12:41):
do anything special for the Super Bowl? From a cooking standpoint, I really
don't. I used to back inthe day. I used to, you
know, younger Aaron, when wellwe had more time. And I mean,
I hate say it, but whenwhen when you get into cooking competition,
you're kind of in a rhythm.You get to a day where you
know we'll do we'll just do dumbstuff like nachos and you know, just

(13:03):
easy stuff. I'm craving those damncarnitas that I made the other day though,
Yeah, I gotta do that again. But you know I about that.
By the way, quick aside tointerrupt you, uh, you do
the frying and then you smoke.I had not seen that, and I
guess that's new to me from thatin terms of that process for the carnadas.

(13:26):
For the carnadas, yeah yeah,and you just fry it in pork
fat right, Yeah. Yeah.They were so damn good. That was
That was the best carnadas I've evermade, and it's it's been a while.
So I just followed me Church's recipe. We played with some different dry
RUPs, but yeah, that stuffwas awesome. But did you bag up

(13:46):
any and take it all? Itwas, dude. You know what's funny
is we had I thought there wasgoing to be there were three or four
of us here. It made ofit three port callars. It was twelve
pounds from it. After we cubedit up, and I'm like, oh
my god, what are we gonnado with all this pork? It was
gone. We destroyed it. Well, we did the neighbors, you know,
everywhere, everybody ate well some bread. Brad took home a little pile

(14:09):
for the family. But yeah,do you think do you think that made
it home to the family, ordid you think home? Yeah? Yeah,
put it. Put it in acup like this, a little fork.
Eight hour traffic from here to thedrive for the bar next door.
That's a that's a forty five that'sa forty five minute drive home. Yeah,
okay, I get it back tothe super Bowl. We're not going

(14:33):
to move this damn thing to Saturday, no doubt. I mean, come
on, what are we doing?Sunday night sucks unless or make Monday a
holiday. Come on, speaking ofwhich, I'm going to be sick on
Monday. Yeah, Monday bottle flu. This is news. It's going to
be a bottle flu. John Well, of course, you know, it

(14:54):
was actually the case of that goingaround lately. I was thinking about this
today. I'm like, you know, I was literally saying the same thing,
that why the hell don't we havethe game on Saturday, and why
isn't Monday holiday? Well, Iown this joint, so it's like,
why don't you just close? Nobody'sgot to start this, you know,
closed on Monday thing. So maybeit's up to me. I mean,
we close early on Sunday because ofit, because we're just doing beer to

(15:18):
go. Yeah. So from Saturday. Ken, what would your what would
your joint look like if it wasSunday or Saturday night Super Bowl? Saturday
super Bowl would be packed. Yeah, Sunday, Sunday super Bowl, would
you guys do everyone wants to behome? Yep? Yeah. I got
to think it would be an absoluteboon for the restaurant industry to have it
on Saturday. I mean, Imean, you think about it on Sunday.
Everybody's like, we'll just do We'llcome here, get meet, we'll

(15:41):
go to the brewery, get whateverit is right when you do a lot
of stuff at home. Mm hmm. Yeah. So bars and restaurants,
everybody thinks go out to the barsrestaurants for Super Bowl party. No chance,
No, No. That's why asfar as restaurants, it is the
slowest day yep of the year forany bar and restaurant is Super Bowl Sunday
that night. And that's why Idon't cook. That's why I don't cook
because it's on Sunday. Yeah.I should probably shut up because it'll be

(16:03):
good for us, you know,because people be behind me to go go
ahead and cook, you know.But yeah, some zabatans to go.
You got any bavets, of coursewe do, okay, just any wagon
ground beef, yes, sir,any competition ribs, of course, got
a couple of backs and a coupleof racks of backs in that backs.

(16:26):
Yeah. What about fish? Yougot to seafood at all? Interested in
just a few different cuts? Yeah, those little easy shrimp over there are
just staring at me right now.No, I'm with you on the Saturday
thing. I think that, youknow, culturally, we've adjusted over the
course of time. So many peoplewill just not work on Sunday, you
know, so many more people areworking at home now in general. Yeah,

(16:49):
Sunday or Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday, pajama pants. You
know what was you know, catblankets, et cetera. I can't remember
exactly what a recent quote from froma big city mayor and these I had
to say, but he painted aninteresting picture. And so, you know,
as you would say it, everybodyjust be losers on Monday. And

(17:11):
it's okay, And it's you know, because we're just joking here, so
it's all good. But yeah,I was, I'm with you on the
Saturday thing. And and for me, you know, I I love what
I do and I'll I'll never complainabout it at all, But you know,
the ability to chill on Sunday andthen do the radio. I mean,
you know, it's not like thetalkers are fewer on a Monday after

(17:32):
the Super Bowl if it's on aSaturday. But then if it's on the
Saturday, then the driveways hoppen.By the way, I just realized the
three of us really can't complain.You started nine, we open it ten.
Yeah, no, no brewery open. I mean I don't get there
till later, but our guy getsthere at five am. I don't even
I don't even think his breweries openon Mondays? Is it seven days a

(17:53):
week? A week? Yeah?Stop on end. You're not making the
beer though, I don't make thebeer. That's a Josh. Josh is
so good at what he does,heavy rotation. What's this beer again?
If you're drinking the vinag or themass Appeal Mass Appeal Our Final Finals coals,
you know it is. It isfitting and I'm not a country music
guy that we're using black solo cups. Given the recent news about Toby Keith.

(18:18):
When I picked these up the otherday, he wasn't dead. He
wasn't dead yet oh man, Imight have predicted something not even known it.
Can we get a quick can weget a quick moment of silence?
As just I it's it's one ofthose things. And I'm not a big
again a big country music guy.But when I first started working at the

(18:41):
radio station, it's in Saint LouisPark and my introduction to Toby Keith was
Toby Keith's bar, and so afterwork, you know, he's got the
giant guitar shaped bar in there.That was a cool bar. Actually it
was pretty cool. But the biggest, biggest thing for me the producer of
nine to noon, you know,not exactly always flush with cash and yeah,

(19:06):
just just two dollars taps from elevenam to seven pm was awesome and
it was and it was every weekdayand noon. Well I didn't stay there
until seven. I just mean thewindow of opportunities. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute, I'm starting tofigure something out. So what happened to?
Oh yeah, they closed, andthen somewhere along the way Northern Fire

(19:30):
opened and then our stool are yousaying, are you saying hold on here?
I don't I don't like it.That's alright, okay, but we
have a new new just trying tomake it to five years though. Five
years yeah, yeah, one moreyear and apparently I can't guarantee that.

(19:53):
I'm just saying that's my only Thatwas the only introduction that I ever had
to Toby Keith. I wasn't listeningto country music. I wasn't Boots scooting
and boogiey great live show. Hewas speaking of nitty gritty dirt band.
It wasn't doing any of that.But I would sit there, I'm like,
yeah, music's not bad, tolerable. Yeah, another tab please,

(20:14):
and my tab, let's get offof this morbid stuff. Yeah. Speaking
of anniversaries, Heavy Rotation has theanniversary coming up to two years already,
So two years in April, GrayWild, so thanks, yeah, yeah,
yeah see we still got still gottwo months to get there, but
we'll we'll make it work. No, it's always a good time anniversaries.

(20:34):
You're already making plans, already makingplans. We already posted it, we
got the music posts, we gotI was thinking about that the other day
because I'm always a like, longstory, but social media is not my
jam. So now we go.So now we got a guy. But
yeah, we were just talking aboutthat. Well, not on the way
here, because I drove, andyeah, the whole thing was a really

(20:55):
short. We were talking about howyou were killing it on social media.
Yeah yeah, well yeah, thisis what happens when you you know,
you hire your weaknesses or what dothey say anyway, Yeah, so I
don't do that anymore. But I'malways looking at at your site and I'm
like, holy crap. I mean, it's something every day. I mean,

(21:15):
I get you guys can't have arhythm and a you know, like,
I don't know, maybe we needto have meat raffles here. I
don't know you. I mean,honestly, we told a couple of different
places that we make beer for that, like, hey, you should try
a meat raffle, and took off. Everybody's everybody's afraid of doing the same
thing as everybody else. But Iwould just say, it's just it's just
copy paste with better ink and betterpaper, right, everybody loves the meat

(21:37):
raffle. First off, I can'ttell you it's funny because you know,
there's only so many barbecue stores inthe universe. But we all kind of
know each other and we all followkind of similar patterns and how many times.
I've got this genius, great ideaand I'm working on creating smart you
know, throw it out there onsocial media. Get up in the morning,
look at my phone, and somebodyelse did it. I'm like,

(22:00):
okay, now I'm just a follower. It's just and I'm sure it happens
to everybody. There's only so manyideas out there, right, yeah,
I mean you can only smoke ribsso many different ways. You can only
make so many different kinds of beer, right, But if you do it
better, and you do it exactlythe way you want to do it,
hey, that that counts for something. Right. If somebody wins meat at
the meat raffle, are you willingto put it back in the cooler until

(22:21):
they complete their stay every single time? Okay, that's actually the move,
right because if they win meat rightaway and like you don't want them to
leave, you don't want to leave? Now? Well, no, I
have to leave. I had thathappen where I won four pounds of ground
beef at a meat raffle, andthis is the dead of summer and so

(22:44):
and I'm not even blaming the establishmenton this. It was it was a
legion. But I left and realized, well, it's I better cut.
What's this is one of those cabtrips, and so leave the car,
put the you know where I putthe where I put the beef in your
car? Put the beef and theold ninety six accurate integrath. Was it

(23:07):
done? The next day it wasmedium, rare burgers all around. Yeah,
just absolutely. I can't tell youhow many times customers have done that.
You just forget about it, Yeah, I forget about it. Yeah,
I'm just like, you know,I'm gonna throw this in the trunk.
I'll come back later, the wholething, and then I never come
back. My favorite is this thisguy that drives is a sweet like one
hundred and thirty thousand dollars Tesla andbuys really nice meat. But he puts

(23:30):
in a very specific spot because Tesla'sare like all trunk there's like, you
know, fifteen different places, butyou know, and there's like a little
cooler that they can put it in. Well, like the front of the
car is kind of a cooler.In the back of the car is like
where you want to put hot stuff. So yeah, he put it in
the front of the car and thenforgot about it and had to come in
and tell me. So, yeah, what a weird thing, you know,

(23:52):
cleaning out the jeep once in awhile, I've hoped, you know,
whether it's the center console or acouple of little cubbies, like you
find something like kid, hey,that's a business cover. Oh if we
went back there right now, I'mso mad. I'm not I'm not a
neat freak or a clean freak byany stretch of the imagination, but things
that are sticky or wet are thegrossest things on the planet to me,

(24:15):
as it pertains to food garbage,you know, like like a pop can
that's just sit like I hate thosethings you just described. Kids. But
then but then it only it onlytook once, and I would vacuum,
you know, do my own detailingtype of they just keep it mostly clean.
Took one time one of the kidsleft a crayon in there, and

(24:37):
then it was a little bit halfmelted. Then it was sad on and
it's just in that fat like there'sno coming back for that thing. And
then I've just allowed it to becomea complete sty And so I find various
you know, just like a kid'ssweatshirt. I find like my kids' books.
They're, you know, getting latefees from the school library. Well,

(24:59):
I know where it is. It'sunder the seat in my jeep.
But picture like just you know,trying to clean stuff out. You just
open up. It's like, that'sa ribbi there, that's a ribbi.
That's a ribi in my vehicle thatI bought two months ago. That would
be absolutely awful. So there wasa guy that a team that we sponsor
here PITYQ. He came in andbought all of his meat for a competition.

(25:25):
T Roy goes through, picks itall out, takes it out to
his truck. No, he wasnot driving his truck. He was driving
his wife's car at that time.Didn't put it where he normally puts it
in his truck. When he gothome, he forgot about it and it
was like ninety to one hundred degreesout and went up. The next morning.

(25:48):
He was back here in the storeof the next day. He was
like in competitions, I mean you'retalking five six hundred dollars worth of meat.
Oh yeah, yeah, you knowwhat theding of meat. He brought
it and we were like, yep, that's done, Yep, that's done.
He's like, yep, I needto buy it all over again.
Not only is that expensive, butthe silver lining to it is he actually

(26:11):
entered it into the competition, finishedsixth. Unbelievable. Method he did last
year that might have been his grandcham, might have been his old bed.
He slowed car cooks that brisket thathe took to Worthington and the judges
is that legal? Can you slowcar cook a brisket for Troy? Hey?

(26:37):
He does the competition check still cashed. Exactly. He's he's the he's
the winner in all of this.And it is so when you because I
saw, well you texted us Johnnyand I the other day he got a
new baby Ken. Oh yeah,he got it. He got a new
offset, a new Outlaws smoker.And this this stick burner is a freaking

(27:00):
Cadillac on twenties. It looks likethose spin those spinners, the spinners.
Jake Craig, I gotta I gottaask, shout out Jake Craig, and
see if you can get us somespinners for that thing. Ah. But
that thing, that thing is sweet. So you you burn it in obviously,
spray it with duck fat. Dothat? Do the whole thing.
Uh, you got to run throughlike like you mentioned, and and that's

(27:22):
what's interesting because for me and Igot you know, I got stupid questions
galore when it comes to competitions,and you know, kind of the mission
of this podcast, if anything,is I'm a Minnesota kid that loves cooking
up here. I think that insome ways, Minnesota I don't want to
say it's the antithesis of barbecue,but from a flavor standpoint, from a
culture standpoint, I think Minnesota ison the come. It's just it's got

(27:45):
some catching up to do when itcomes to other regions maybe, But I
know that there are a ton ofpeople here that love it just like I
do. And they love learning aboutit, they love doing it. You
know what's funny though, is likewe get we get people up here.
We're barbecue people, right. Soif a guy moves from Texas or Kansas
City or whatever, he's got tofind they're gonna end up here and we're

(28:07):
gonna end up talking. And man, I don't don't convince yourself for a
minute that those guys are any smarteranybody in Minnesota, because they'll come up
here and tell us, you know, buy some random crap and tell us
how they're gonna cook ribs. AndI just look at him, like,
yeah, is that how you doit? In Kansas City? It's like,

(28:27):
okay, you know, And I'vealways said, you know, in
my defense, I've always said,you know, hey, if you make
it and you like you keep doingit, it doesn't my opinion, absolutely,
that's the key, right, Butit you know, everybody's got a
way, and everybody's got a gotsome kind of you know, a trick
or a family tradition or whatever.But but as part of that, I

(28:48):
you know, And I'm glad youmentioned that because because ultimately that's where I've
always sat on things. I stillremember because I've I've cooked ribs so many
different ways, and I'm not interdoing recipe sharing tonight. Maybe maybe that's
a thing down the road, butI've cooked them so many different ways from

(29:08):
it's falling apart when I try totake it off the rack, to more
of what you know I've gone throughwith your guidance. From a competition standpoint,
it's so juicy, it's so tender, but there's still there's that bite
and the matters, right, we'llsee your teeth but it's like, you
know, I have my dad overand I cook ribs the way you like
it. Well, he always appreciatedthe fall off the bone. He asked

(29:30):
me if they're under so he's like, you know, are you sure you
cooked them long enough? Air?Like my own father just ripping me.
It's unbelievable. But did he alsosay how long did you have these in
the crock button? Well, I'llhave you know, dad, they were
baked. But that one of thebiggest controversies, like the fall off the

(29:51):
bone rib versus like the jew fromthe but like, because it's a tale
as old as time, it willthat grew out a because Vienna is great
though, I gotta tell you,yeah, the coulture is great too,
But that's gone. Like that alwaysblew my mind, like because everyone's like,
oh, it's got to fall offthe bone and fall off the bone.
And then my buddy started doing somejust makeshift competition stuff. He's like,

(30:14):
no, you do not want itto fall off the bone. It's
like that means you overcooked it.Anybody can do that. So yeah,
but it's funny. It's like Iwonder who the guy is that decided that
that there was a standard for ribcooks, Like there's there's some there's standards
now for brisket. But who isthe yahoo that did sitting in a garage
in Kansas City when they started theKansas City Barbecue Society, which is a

(30:37):
cool story by the way, literallystarted by two people in their neighborhood and
now it's a global organization. That'sawesome. Yeah, it's amazing. But
someone down there decided that, yeah, no, we're not judging on taste.
We're gonna judge on taste and tendernessand appearance. Well, I think,
but that creates the narrow window rights. That's where the skills come at

(30:59):
exactly. And that's like I said, anybody can overcook ribs. Sure I've
done it. But yeah, it'sjust an interesting, you know kind of
mind game. You know, we'vegot customers that are judges and you know,
they come in and buy ribs andthey have a gas grill, they
didn't even have a smoker and they'rejudge like, but that's cool. But

(31:22):
it But it gets to what Iwas thinking, is like you getting ready
like you you mentioned it earlier,is because I cook all the time,
Like it's a process. I havemy ways I have. I have my
routine in some ways, and thenyou even kind of rattled it off right
like you're you're cooking the core forso you gotta you know, you look
at it maybe in some ways professionallyfrom the competition standpoint, a hell of

(31:48):
a lot differently than me. LikeI got I love that smoker I got
from you guys anchor grills. It'slocal now, you know, I'm all
about local, and Paul put itjust a beautiful thing together. For me,
it's great. It's it's different thanme running my anchor out into the
garage and just getting that fire goingin the driveway and then and then just
doing that one particular thing and andthen also, by the way, doing

(32:13):
it to a specific standard like thereps that you have put in over the
course of time. It just soundsdaunting to me. In the end,
I've had your food a bunch inmost recently those carnitas. It kicks ass.
So I know that the result isgood. You should start judging,
well, I need you, bro, what does it take to judge?
And also when are they putting carnitasonto the for the board? But that

(32:38):
process the year before, like youburn in you burn in that sweet new
outlaw you got, and the firstthing I'd be thinking of is I just
want to cook something on it,like anything. Yeah, And I loved
your response to me. You're like, actually gonna wait until I have enough
time to run my program, Like, well, come on, just cook

(32:58):
something any thing, trust me.That was two individual chicken drums on it
or something, just doing something onit. That was like this summer.
We were standing out here and Ithought you guys were cooking something. We
came in to have a beer,shoot the crap, whatever, and you
were just seasoning it was his pit. Yeah, and I was like I
showed up. I'm like, oh, they're making something. I'm going to
eat some of this stuff. It'sgonna be amazing. Like wow, we're

(33:21):
just we're just seasoning it. Remember, Yeah, it was the Flat It
was the Flat Rise Johnny cooking onthat. Remember, I was seasoning it
up for I think there was somethinggoing on the next day, maybe you
guys are doing one of your cookingclasses or whatever. But that I was
like, I'm going to eat somegreat food. This is awesome. Remember
when we burned in my my anchorgrill smoker that I was so excited about

(33:42):
the first thing we cooked on itwas a brownie, a brownie thing.
Yeah, that's a tough subject,that's not We burned it in here,
we did, Yeah, we did, we did. We did. You
took it home? When they tookit home. When that smoke starts coming,
the people star walking, I forgotabout this moll first. Yeah,
unbelievable. There was a brownie.There was an that showed up. I

(34:06):
don't know where they came from.Somebody wanted us to put this brownie s'more
thing on the smoker. Hey,what are you guys doing? I were
burning in uh his new smoker.Cool if I cooked this on it?
What that goes back to my question, what's the worst thing you've ever cooked
on smoker? Yeah? That mightbe. Yeah, Actually it wasn't bad.

(34:28):
It wasn't It was good. Imean it sink. I didn't forget
it. I mean it was abrownie with a giganic seven hundred pounds smoker
out there running guy walk brownie whatyou got on there? It was like
a four by six tray of abrownie thing in this disposable refrigerated brownie that

(34:50):
you're just throw in the oven andwe threw it in the smoke. I'm
honestly just remembering it. Just wouldyou mind if I cooked this? Yeah?
Anything? House? Anything else?You got some freshly needed bread in
the back. You want a neighbors? I love the guy. Uh,
but my neighbor Tom. You know, Missy and I are like this time

(35:13):
of year, we need to beout cooking and getting our crap together for
barbecue season. And I'll roll mysmoker out and I swear to God it's
got its first puff of smoke outthe stack, and my my neighbor Tom
will come run over. It's like, can I go buy some rack of
ribs? And have you thrown them? I'm like yet, sure? You
know it makes me crazy because youknow, we're like, we're in a

(35:34):
groove, We're doing our thing,and you know, I got a random
cup foods rack of ribs next tomy you know, thirty dollars compart.
So how disappointed? How disappointing washe last weekend when you told me you
were just burning it in? Uh? You know what, he didn't He
didn't swing by. He was walkingto his new dog. But I'm miss
he talked to him. I didn't. He just showing him. But you
know that that is one of myfavorite things. And it's not about me

(35:55):
being anti social. But but Ihave I and I'm not and I'll never
be the guy that's going door todoor in the neighborhood trying to make friends.
That that's not me. Now,if we interact, then we can
combine resources for some particular reason.I'm I'm there, I'm in, I'm
I want to be a helper.I want to be as good as I
can be to anybody that enters intomy life. But I'll tell you and

(36:20):
for a guy like me, theconversation starter is that puff of smoke.
I mean, it's it's so muchfun in my neighborhood people, what are
you cooking? Obviously you know it'slike if I'm looking, it's not cooking.
I get it. But it's like, come on over, hey,
what's your name checked this thing?Look at this, look at it.
Then there's just there's some grunting andweird noises that take place. Again that

(36:43):
affirmation, Yeah, that affirmation,that's take Hey, you know it's you
know, I've it's amazing, man, I've witnessed it a few times.
And when he's smoking in his driveway. He has a whole ring of people
sitting around in lawn chairs waiting forthis food to be done. It's it's
food. Evangelism is really what itis. Yeah, and you know this

(37:04):
is what everything was fine. Johnstarted handing out Northern Fire business cards and
it just kind of hard smart,kind of felt a little awkward at times,
and some bogos for heavy rotation.Next time you want, you got
some cards on you too, I'llget some cards going. The whole thing
going. But no, but likefeeding people, like it's just it's amazing.
No, I'm not. I'm nothanding out a free rib bone to

(37:25):
every person that walks down the streetand every Fido that's trotting along with them.
But it's but there's something about likewhen that finished product comes off again
as a as a covid era convert. I'm new to this. I'm not
trying to pretend to be an experthere, Like there's something special about that,
Like it's so amazing when you kickthat well, I mean you just
perfect it. It's so good andthen everyone just goes you know what's FA's

(37:50):
right, that's good. I tellthe story a lot, and you guys
have probably heard it because I sayit too often. But I remember a
long time ago, I was sittingaround with one of my buddies. I
couldn't even tell you who, butI'm like, here's a close prison.
It was in the competition. SoI've always got you know, we got
you know, we got probably,but I think it was my buddies in

(38:10):
Po Po Pork, you know,Tim and and Greg and Jeremy. I
don't know, but I'm liken't becrazy. Like we go out to these
contests. We can go anywhere likeIowa, Washington Island, Wisconsin, and
everybody's great. Everybody's having a goodtime. Everybody's got a smile on their
face, and you know, andthen game time comes and we all kind
of go to work, but westill do, you know, nine to

(38:30):
twenty two shots. We do allour things. And I'm like, but
it's weird that, like I don'tknow anything about like being on an NFL
team or a NASCAR or whatever,but when we go to the contest,
everybody's great. They're terrific people,and the like, what are weird like
group of people that everybody's just soterrific, And uh, I can't I

(38:52):
got I wish I can remember whopointed this out there, said we'll think
about this. How did you getinto barbecue? I'm like, well,
I love cooking for people. There'snothing better than cooking something, nothing about
it, spending your whole day doingsomething and then serving it to somebody and
watched their eyes roll back in theirhead, and it's like, that's the
wind. That's why I do this. So all these people that are into

(39:13):
barbecue in a big way, themajority of them aren't doing it for their
own entertainment. Some are, forsure, but you're doing it because you're
thinking about others, and those generallyare good people. Well, and here's
I was mentioning this to John andall of us in one way or another.
Maybe even whether it's it's you know, the smoking, grilling aspect of
it, you know that's the focalpoint, but it's even cooking in general.

(39:37):
For me. If I'm over atyour house and you're cooking, I
am going to way over eat.I mean, I'm gonna take I'm gonna
take my survey. I'm gonna takea couple other people's servings with me to
go. I got I got plasticline pockets, like I'm handling business.
But if I'm cooking, it's theweirdest thing. Man, Like nine hours

(39:58):
for you know that that brisky it. Uh, it was similar nine ten
hours for those beef ribs whatever I'mcooking for some reason, like I'm slicing
it up and it's almost like I'mbeing fed by what. Like I don't
eat that much of my own food. Now you know you're eating it as
you're smelling it. No, it'sit's unbelievable. Yeah. Now, now

(40:19):
the next three days, I'm grabbingthe freezer bags out out of the fridge
and you know, the leftovers ina little bit of brisket, put a
little mayo out. Now I'm shreddingsome brisket. I'm making nachos like I
got you know, I got ideasfour days for the next week basically to
eat the leftovers. But when it'sdone, I just kind of stare at
it and I'm like everybody else,I got to take fifty photos of it,

(40:42):
and first I kind of yeah,every single time, I kind of
just watch other people eat. Ihave a couple of strips. I'm like,
yeah, I didn't bleep that up. I mean, that's pretty that's
pretty damn good guys. And uhand and that's again it's cooking for people
is amazing when you when you hitit right, yep. Now when you
completely screw it up. You knowwhat's funny though, is ninety percent of

(41:06):
the time, maybe more than that, do you think you did a horrible
job, didn't hit your marks?You know, it happens to me all
the time. It happens to meat contests where Missy and I will be
like, well, we know we'renot gonna get a call and chicken and
they had chicken was trash. Yeah, and we get a call and chicken
call. It's like, well you'recritic yeah, exactly, doubt yep.

(41:27):
So so you know I was gonnasay earlier too, It's funny people come
in here and I've learned so muchabout humans just in how they interact with
groups and talking about food. Andwe just had that gala night. She's
gonna do pork Billy tonight this weekend. It sounded like the first time she's
done it. You know, wegave her a recipe, helped her out
and she's just jazz. She's amped. But then we have guys come in

(41:50):
here, had that today too,Hey, got this brisket and they're sweating
it big time, like just overthinkingit it. I always tell people,
you gotta you just chill out andcook cook it man like guys, I
mean they just I've seen so manyguys come in here, just like,
stop worrying. Just lighten up.You're not you're not solving you know,

(42:16):
trigonometry here, it's you're cooking food. But like I'm not. I don't
really grill a lot, but whenI do, it's it's fun, right,
Like it should be a fun thing. Yeah, Like you can't stress
out about it, because if you'restressing out about it, then like you're
saying, like you're watching you havewhite people over and you're watching everybody eat
it, and you're like, oh, he didn't like the way I cook
those brats that I like, whatare you talking about? Like, just

(42:38):
have fun with it, right,don't overthink any of things. That's generally
what grilling, barbecuing is is you'rehaving people over, you're feeding people,
and it's a good time and there'ssome libation involved of course, right,
like it one time I never talkedto her again. No, I hate

(42:59):
it and enjoyed it, enjoyed it. It doesn't. And that's the you
know, well, over the courseof time, I imagine whether it's the
quality of the meat. I mean, we can get we can do some
serious deep dives, uh where wecan really dig into specifics about stuff.
But in the end, it's it'sa community aspect. But but I'll say
this, I'm not I am notimmune to worrying. And John knows this.

(43:21):
I keeps I keep referencing John.Yeah, John's my training meet,
He's my training wheels like I freakout. I felt like you bought a
smoker and we sent John home withyou. A little bit, a little
bit. I'm still looking for myroom over there's one in the basements right
the beer bread and here's John's phonenumber. Just have a kiss, of

(43:43):
course, light and he'll be rightover. But that's the the good mood,
good vibes, all of that.It's it's it's so basic. And
I think if you said that tosomebody that came in, like I picture,
like in your store and really eveneven outside of the store, but
you would yourself is a barbecue expert. A lot of competitions, You've you've
carried a lot of trophies like you'vebeen doing this for a long time.

(44:06):
If the average person comes up toyou and they're like, what's like one
really simple thing that could help me, and you're like, just be in
a good mood when you're cooking.Yeah, they look at you like you're
an ame. I know, likewhat the hell is that about? You
know what they think they think.I'm not going to tell them that there's
some other like you know, oh, like you got secrets you got oh
yeah, it competition barbecue, becauselike everybody gets his idea and I'll tell

(44:30):
you everything. Well wait a minute, I'll tell everything I know because Missy's
got her role and I've got mine. So people sometimes think I'm not telling
them the whole truth. But it'slike you know, injections. Maybe that's
the secret. Missy's thing is you'vedivided roles, so you never know what
she's doing. She never knows whatyou do. So if either of you
get kidnapped, the other one can'ttell you how to perfect your competition barbecue.

(44:53):
I don't want to meet the peopleplanned like that. A couple of
fifty five year olds go, there'sa lot of weird people there, and
there's a lot of weird people.But but to that end, I just
you know, I had it,you know, mid cook for a brisky
one time, Like I lost firein the burn box and it was just
because my oak sticks were too thickand the fresh ones weren't burn they weren't

(45:17):
burning. See. No, yeah, it's a simple tool, trust me,
I know. And I'm losing mymind. And John's he's my therapist.
He's he's just dude, will youjust shut up and just restart some
new charcoal and everything's going to befine. It's fine. And he stopsn't
whining about it. No, that'sthe key. The meat doesn't care.

(45:40):
And I just and I needed himto say that. And I wiped the
sweat from my brow, restarted thecharcoal and it was a lead. Fo.
I just need He's my training wheels. That's it's because I do freak
I do freak out about that.Like it's not going completely according to the
plan. Frankly, I still haven't. I still haven't had a cook.

(46:01):
Now wait, that has gone completelyaccording to plan. I don't know anything
about baking, but everything I've learnedabout baking is that has zero tolerance for
what we just talked about. Youcan't lose temperature. You know, everything
goes crap. Can't can't open theoven. There's all kinds of crap for
baking, you know, I mean, I mean you can get away with
a lot of temperature variation. Likepeople. Now, these new you know,

(46:22):
the triggers and yoders and everything that'sout there there. Well, they
got the digital they got the digitalface. It's communicating to you all the
time. Apparent I got Wi Fi. But so now we've trained all these
people to like there is there's noabsolute temperature, right, but everybody thinks
that. We get people that areinjured. It's like, wow, you

(46:43):
know I'm off by ten degrees.You know, I'm swinging twenty degrees negative
ten plus ten. Nothing matters,It doesn't matter. Just cook. But
every piece of meat is different.You know that these the girls are going
to do their thing, just justrelaxing. Cook, you're good. It
is kind of funny hearing you guystalk about like, oh I didn't I
didn't make it right, or Ididn't do this, and everybody's watching me
and they're not gonna like it whatever, and they always love it right.

(47:07):
Same thing our guy Josh does.He's like this one didn't turn out the
way I wanted it to. Say, you have to have the same thing
with the brewing, and he justI'm like, dude, I'm like,
shut the hell up my kids.He's like, oh, I wish it
could have been this. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, look at
the sales of it. People loveit. Look at the reviews of they
love it. Right, as longas they're having a good time, they
like it. Then who So you'rehis John? Pretty much? Yeah?

(47:30):
Pretty much? Like well I've beenI've been saying this for years, at
least the last few years since i'veknown you. Everyone needs a John in
their life, right, cheers tothes to that someone to pump you up.
And yeah, so you quit smoking. So now we'll keep johing around
a little longer. There we go, no time out. Congratulations, we're

(47:51):
doing a barbecue thing. I didn'tkeep smoking food. Yeah, yeah,
sorry, I put the lung darts. Yeah. I wonder how that changes
your taste palette, Like, howmuch more sensitive? Maybe not not right
away, but let's say six monthsfrom now, Suddenly you're like, my
god, this has so much salton it. Well, I mean segment

(48:13):
brought to you by Olivia's we can, by the way, but in Alt
Wonders, taste palettes can change.Well, we will find out over the
next Let's go grab a bottle ofsauce and see if he likes it.

(48:34):
Let's not, let's not let's notbring no, no, no, no,
let's not bring up certain names ofwhat is that? The what is
that? The flavor wall over there? That flavor wall snaberry the But but
I am interested in that? What? What is with with competitions? Because
I've you know again, I've talkedto Johnny a lot about this. I

(48:55):
am a nube to all of that. I want to participate in one.
Let's go, How do I doit? I can't have sean, We're
doing it now. We have aname too, Hops and Hawks. Oh
you can't use that, can you? We had another name, We had
a better name. Damn it.What was it? Did you don't think?

(49:15):
No? No? Oh, definitelywasn't the first one. You're kidding
me. It's barbecue. You knowwhat kind of like appropriate and barbecue names
together? That's fair? Yeah,so abilities I just can't believe you'd say
that. How dare you leave itto YouTube and want to clean barbecue name.
Oh gosh, we don't want offendyou. That's changed. I've gotten

(49:37):
I've gotten older, third kid onthe way. I just congrass right,
yeah, congrats blowing down. Well, you know, but it's good to
have hobbies at home. I'll tellyou that. Yes, sir, I'm
going to be cooking a lot,but but repping briskets very similar to diapers,
basically the same, although I'm taking, like i'd add beef tallow to

(49:58):
a brisket or something like that,I'm taking away when I'm changing the diapers.
That's a removal of something. Ican't wait till you're half awake and
you're putting the beef tellow on thebaby. And oh yeah. Also,
just speaking of which, speaking ofwhich, at what time does my room

(50:19):
the other one? Uh no,I get kicked quick? Well, if
anything, I think it's at somepoint I'm you know, with the three
ladies, my wife and two daughters. It feels like I'm the odd person
out in this equation. I'll allbe the one taking the bedroom in the
basement right away. You're the ultimategirl dad, now I am. I
am unintentional, but certainly it's beena blessing thus far is is there something

(50:45):
like what should a nude like mewants to dive into a competition too?
Because it's daunting because all you guysare rolling up there. It's like jets
and sharks, and you're you're likethe outsiders standing there and I'm just like,
hey, guys, like, let'sall have food, barbecue. You're
like, screw screw the do guy. Not at all. I can probably
with me. It's completely the oppositeif you go to contest. I remember

(51:07):
I used to be that guy missingand I when we started, we were
like, we didn't talk to anybody. We stayed in our corner. How
long we heard when that was aboutas long as yours? Oh really a
long time ago. I'm sorry youcall me saying you can call me patches
with this, with this awful thingI have on my face. But yes,

(51:28):
continue. But you know there's thisterm shigan and barbecue, and if
schigan is means you're stealing somebody's recipe, and and I took it way too
literally. I'm like, I'm notasking for nothing, blinders on, don't
even look at it. I'm notI'm not gonna look. As we got
older and more seasoned, and gotno more people. You can ask anybody

(51:49):
anything. You can go literally tothe goat the greatest you know on earth
down in Iowa. Darren Worth justHall of Famer last year. Darren will
tell you anything. He doesn't care. He'll tell you everything. It doesn't
matter, you can't. He mighttell you all. He'll He'll tell you
enough to get going. Sure,Yeah, I mean, but you don't

(52:12):
have the No, we don't.You don't have the Darren touch exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. Barbecue. Youthink he cooks, and I think he
might have once or twice. Carcooks. Have you ever seen that where
somebody cooked like car and they'll throwcrack eggs on there, cook it on

(52:32):
the engine block. Yeah, butdon't don't fear going out there. You
don't. It's intimidating say that.Yeah, don't. But maybe that's maybe
that's it under you know, I'mjust I'm seeing it under false pretenses.
I would say, go out therewith an open heart and an open mind,
and uh, you know, straightout the gate. I wouldn't expect
a lot. We always like ifwe go to contest and there's a new

(52:55):
team there and we're like, wego to awards and you know, the
to whatever eighth place, tenth place, call sure, you know, and
they get a little big trophy.All of a season. Teams are like
see you next week. We gotone, you know, so we we
really you know, we need moreteams. We need more cooks, we
need we need more sponsors, weneed more judges. So in order to

(53:20):
make the world go around, weneed more of everything. So that's actually
awesome because like in the beer world, it's the same thing. Like I'm
sure you guys have probably seen there'sa lot of breweries that have closed recently
right on the past, right,and they about that, yeah, some
of them haven't had the greatest beeror whatever. But they also don't reach
out to people in the industry thatare like, hey, we don't know
why our coal is tasting like thisor whatever it is, right, and

(53:43):
they're they're intimidated. So there isthere Just do you think it's a proprietary
aspect where it's like, you know, speaking to recipes by the way,
like yep, I don't want toyou know, now, this is this
is a true competitor versus you know, looking at it maybe as a community,
because I think there are other aspectswhere breweries. They're super supportive of
each other. Yeah, we wonsome stuff last year and then we're entering

(54:04):
again this year. But like wedon't need to brag the beers that that's
got to be a competitive world.It's competitive, but at the same time
though it's it's it is a hugefamily because if everybody succeeds, we all
succeed, right. There is likeif there's competition, but not really so
when people get too proud to likeask like, oh, I don't know

(54:27):
why my ribs are so bad?Like what could I do? I don't
want my cols is so bad?What could I do? Like reach out
right, because they're not going tobe scared, like you're saying, like
it's intimidating to show up to something, and like, oh I don't want
to talk to these guys. They'vebeen doing it for so long. I
don't want to think I don't knowwhat I'm doing. Right. Just's a
big community. There's a big askof humility there though, I think,
because in some ways, I mean, you know, I don't have an

(54:51):
ego when I cook, I Ibut but that's got to be a I'm
super curious about that world. Thesebrewers because the like are they were they
basement brewers? And then I meanI think in Minnesota the guys I met
the guys from Fulton and uh uhoh shoot the original Surly brewing guy Omar

(55:13):
Yeah yeah, and Todd Todd startedin like his dad's warehouse. So I
mean there's there's super humble vintwe thatFulton and certainly those guys were kind of
the O G s right Minnesota.Yeah, some it's been around for a
long time and true, yeah,but that was I don't know, you
you could tell me, but thatwas was that crap brewing that someone was

(55:36):
doing? What would you call that? Now? A lot of those people
probably started in their garage or intheir basement, right like our guy did.
Our guys started in his garage.So how do you guys feel about
like, uh, Summit brewing versusyou know what you're doing? Because they're
in like a national brand. I'lltell you, Like that's a bar across
the street. I had an ep A. Right, they know what

(55:58):
they're doing. Oh, sure,they're great, right, But I mean,
is there a It was the firstnon light beer that I ever had.
Oh no, there is no animositybetween us and the big guys,
right, like, because without thebig guys, we don't exist, right,
Oh, absolutely, So it's kindof no. We would like if
I had a question about it,I want to make this very similar beer,
I'd go to them and they wouldmost likely be like, here's what

(56:22):
we do. Cool, right,Well, that's awesome and it's huge,
right, it's a big community.Right, So when people are scared to
reach out, you're just gonna you'repotentially gonna just fail. Yeah, I
just reached out. Like, atone point I had this fascination about Bruin
beer, and I never did mykids funny. One Christmas, I got
those like you used to get thoseplastic those little kids. Yeah, and

(56:42):
it's a mister Beers or whatever.They Yeah, that's that's one of them
for sure. And I had himand like I got him for a Christmas
and just never got I didn't evertake out of the box. And my
son Evan was making fun of me. He's like, that was a great
kid. You know, you everdidn't do anything with that? You know,
next year, I think I'm gonnathrow it away. But you know,
because I found out that uh,these dies and you know all that

(57:06):
stuff. But yeah, I've alwayswanted to get into it, but instead
I got into barbecue. I've alwaysthought the world's collide pretty well because there
is a lot of patients involved inboth. Yeah, So a lot of
patients, a lot of cleaning,a lot of sanitary things, right,
Like you have to be like Imean, good ingredients are better, right,
So if you're using better meat fresh, if you're using better hops and

(57:30):
better malting, a better product,can you carbrew? We can, carcarbrew,
car cook you can. It won'tbe great. I mean we'll drink
it, but it won't be great. Yeah. Same with the barbecue too.
Let's car cook some ribs, carbrewsome beer, and let's see what
happens. Right. So that's kindof, you know, this is kind

(57:53):
of the mission of the podcast,gentlemen, if you guys are cool with
it, is shooting the bleep.Okay, that's first and foremost, but
just connecting with people in Minnesota wholove barbecue. I mean, that's that's
kind of how kind of how Iframe it up. And you know,
I like learning through you guys foron many levels, but specifically competition season

(58:14):
is about to hit, right,you know, the Aaron bar Dodges of
the world maybe have already started runningtheir programs and practicing. You've been looking
into you know, I've always beencurious, like, does a flavor at
a competition here in Minnesota, doesthat hit in Kansas City or does it
hit in Memphis? Or is ityou know, do you almost have to
do something? You know? Correct? Are there regional flavors? And you

(58:38):
know you've probably noticed, Hey,you know the flavor that I was so
accustomed to three years ago, that'snot in right now. Actually people are
looking for more heat or less heat, or it's the toughest thing. Like
you know, Missy and I werelike, you know, uh, chicken
was our jam. We just wewere never outside the top ten and chicken.
And we've had sixteen contests without atop ten and chicken, and so

(59:00):
we were like, for four yearswe couldn't miss, and for two and
a half can't hit. And sonot that I don't know how to cook
chicken. Judges changed. I thinkCOVID changed judges a lot, but it
was, yeah, it's a it'sa it's a weird game. Well,
COVID hit and all these people stoppedsmoking. Yeah, and then their palettes
changed that's what happened. I reallythink that a lot of the judging community

(59:24):
is an older crowd. And Ithink a lot of people with COVID they
just found other hobbies, you think, So it's a younger crowd. I
think everything's kind of moved up andit's a little a little hotter. Has
it gone like spice level hotter?I think people want hotter stuff. So
I think I think the tolerance comparedto you know, literally, I mean

(59:45):
a lot of the judging pool isyou know, I thought you were I
thought you were going to say theylost their taste. Yeah, which is
a problem because a little bit ofa bite, right, we're cooking ribs
here, We're not cooking pulled pork. Can you see your gums in their
reserves? I said, taste,not teeth. But I'm so fascinated by

(01:00:12):
all that. But in the end, like I just know from from talking
about it on the fan and justyou know, connecting social media, that
there are a ton of people uphere that love it. And I know
that the competition scene is it's simultaneouslyand this is this is from my mindset.
It's it's simultaneously succeeding. It's simultaneouslygrowing, but it still feels simultaneously

(01:00:37):
unaccessible, or at least just theexposure of it. I think, you
know, to people like myself,it's not where it needs to be.
And so in the end, amI gonna change the world by, you
know, doing a podcast like this? Probably not, But in the end,
hanging out drinking beer, let's changesome minds. You know, Ken's

(01:00:58):
gonna Ken's gonna put it in He'sworld. He's going to put his podcast
voice on and he's going to tellus about the Vienna. Laggers be thinking
about the Buda. He's got apodcast. He has one of the best
podcast voice I've ever heard. Doyou notice that? And now it's different.
Now he's back to himself again.But he started out, well,
this is a Vienna, Loggers,gentleman, I'm gonna have to bring more
beer next time it comes in.It five out of beer five point five

(01:01:21):
percent. No, no, no, no, no, don't worry about
that. We're not out of beer. The mass appeal is the Vienna.
And then the final finals, Finalfinal. No, I've been up to
your spot. I've had several Finalfive. What's the story behind final finals?
It's the it's the classic. Well, this is a podcast. I
was actually trying to wrap it upa few but who cares, doesn't matter.

(01:01:43):
But the final final is this thisNo, this is the podcast version
of a final final because it's theclassic. It's the classic at happy hour
where somebody rolls in and I havea buddy. I wouldn't call it one
more plan. I wouldn't call itfinal final. I call it the one
more one more. One of mybest buddies in the world I love is
name is Justin. I adore thisguy. But we go to happy hour
and it's like, man, Igot to get home. He's like one

(01:02:05):
more yeah, and then she pourshim one one more play. Yeah.
I'm sitting there. It's like okay, like this is like Justin, can
we just don't please one one more? And then we go through that a
few times. That's the final final, Like this is our this is our
final final. We can't do anymoreFinal final, all right, we'll do
another. It gets out what itis. Yeah, literally where the name

(01:02:28):
came from. Oh yeah, ohthat is awesome and that's why we kept
at the low abb too. Soit is the final, like you can
your final final is gonna be likefour of them. What's your highest abb
that we've done? Probably fourteen percent? Jeez. So that's like a smoked
porter kind of deal. You're gonnabring that next time if it's ready,

(01:02:49):
Podcasts will ask her. It's twentyminutes. See I I I would love
to have it, and if ittastes good, I'm in. But ultimately,
like beer for me, you know, it's kind of like it's it's
kind of like drink, but it'skind of like food. Where when I
when I rolled in here where we'rehanging out inside Northern Fire Grilli and Barbecue

(01:03:13):
Supply right now, and there wasa customer talking about like I got you
know, x y Z cut ofmeat and it's seven or eight pounds,
and it's like, well, that'sthat's mighty small, my brother, and
so you know, and then youkind of put that in with with who
you're cooking for, et cetera.Yeah, well I'm going for I'm going
for quantity here correct. So sofor me, if if I'm sitting on

(01:03:36):
the couch, you know, withthe Super Bowl and everything intact, can
I have one fourteen percent beer theultras? Or can I have six final
finals? I'd rather have six finalfinals. I'm with every single time.
But you know, that's the coolthing about the craft beer industry too.
And you mentioned, you know,summ It like, I don't even look
at you and Summit as a asa competitor at all, given where you

(01:03:59):
are, what you do, distribution, all of those things. And that's
the cool thing about it is youguys can coexist. You can both thrive
and succeed in your own rights.But the craft beer thing, like,
you know, the IPA craze,like how much hops can I put in
this beer? I want to burnmy tongue off to you know, X
y Z. Certain flavors were chasingyou know, well, I got a
sixty minute IPA. You know whatI got? I got a nine Oh

(01:04:21):
you got a ninety minute IPA.You know what I'm gonna do? You
just wait and so but it's justkind of funny those trends and things.
But but I've had beers that aretwelve thirteen percent that are just I mean,
it's putrid. Yeah, but I'vehad I've had a few that are
you know, you're talking like fourteenpercent. You said, you don't know

(01:04:43):
that it's fourteen percent. So I'mgoing to I'm gonna need you to tell
me before I think God having thesecond one. So if you let me
know in advance, then I willjust I I'll just have one, just
have one. Got to keep called. It's a can we call that when
you're done, it's a school pickedup. I'm done, You're final,

(01:05:03):
final call a cab. But ultimatelyagain, and I appreciate you guys doing
this, whether it's you know,it's for your insight, it's just fun
hanging out having some beers and talkingabout talking about barbecue. But as this
thing unfolds again, we can digdeeper into bits. I loved the thing

(01:05:25):
that you brought up to me.This is three four months ago, so
there's zero chance you remember it.Is that an old joke, but but
hell but I love the idea oflike if if we tonight and it's on
the spot. So I'm not interestedin committing to it now, but for
the next time, maybe between now, maybe a couple of weeks from now,

(01:05:46):
we do another one, and thenwe got to figure out the frequency
of these two yep is the threeof us and Kenny, Kenny wants to
he's got to do it too,So he's bringing the beer. Yeah correct,
where's the hops? Yeah correct,he's the hops portion of it.
The hog game genius by the way. You know, unfortunately I could lose
a little weight o gat, likea couple of pounds on the hog of

(01:06:09):
the bunch. But at any rate, we all cook something and then via
social media report back what did weexperience? How did it go? Because
you know, I've I've listened toa lot of podcasts and I'm not against
it at all. I would actuallyprefer just to look at it on the
internet, but like, yeah,just reading through the recipes down to the

(01:06:31):
pinch of rosemary time on the turkey, No, and and and that's and
it's super helpful. I would neverI would never try to anybody for doing
that. And you can and that'sthat's the ultimate resource of it. But
I think that would be a funway versus doing just you know, here's
a recipe. No, actually checkout check out my account on Twitter or
something like that. Here's what Iactually cooked with it, Here's what I

(01:06:57):
encountered, and that's in the podcast. Yeah, I think it's how it
turned out. And just talk aboutthe ebbs and flows. Yeah, I
think the education comes from the youknow, and it's like, I've been
cooking for years, so it's likewhen can't ask me, you know,
what did you ruin? And I'mlike, oh, lots of things,
like can you be more specific?Yeah, but you're also device, you
know, you guys, You guysare so damn good though, and I

(01:07:19):
don't I don't need to pump yourtires, but you were. You had
some flop sweat to you when youwere cooking those carnitas, for instance,
because brought over. You brought overlike a baby dish to try and fry
the yea, you realize you're like, what like, yeah, a ball
like a sorcer for a kitten.So here's no wait a minute, let

(01:07:44):
me back up. We're never gonnaend this thing. So at my house,
I'm like, Missy, you knowwe've got a big cast iron pat
pot, right. She was likeyeah, yeah, it's down there under
that and that. You know,you guys have that space in your kitchen
you never go to. There's allthe like random stuff goes to la.
So I'm like, in my head, I'm like cool. In my head,

(01:08:05):
it was this big thing. Itwas not you know, it was
in the smallest cab in your kitchenand you brought out this pan that barely
fit in there, but it wasstill I forgot, so like, we
we're actually gonna borrow it when Ihave my baby girl in June. She
can eat mush harrots out of it. It's not that small. I thought

(01:08:25):
you wanted to like like one eggin it or something like that. We
went down so Ken, you're gonnaappreciate this. Like we're in this mall
with a bunch of like foodies Ihad to go to. I went down
to Popcorn. I'm like, who'sgot something bigger than Sue lives really close
by, and she's like, oh, yeah, I've got one home.
It was the MVP. Yeah,absolutely, yeah, save the day.
Because I'm like, I'm trying toliken you know, I called Missy.

(01:08:48):
Would you run to Target? She'sgot fifteen meetings? No, you're on
your own. I'm like, goddamn it. But yeah, we figured
it out, Sue, you know, and now we've got Sue's big pot
in the back room so we cancook carneada. But but that was funny
that I brought that up to ripyou and to compliment you because you stayed
in the game and you handled it. Yeah, you will. We had

(01:09:11):
Cardibus, we had Carnado. Wedid and they were delicious. You know.
The path to victory was, youknow, a little nacky. But
when we do the social media,but mine's going to look a lot like
John's because I'm going to call himseven or eight times to make sure that
I'm doing it the right way.You guys are gonna be in the same
driveway. Well, yea, histrigger. When's the last time you fired
up that? Let's not talk aboutthat right, Well, he can.

(01:09:35):
He doesn't have time because he's atmy heels. Yeah, exactly, I
mean house cooking. I'm here workingand we got to go to the meeting
and then I got a little HeavyRotation and try the beers there. That's
so I'm so busy. Anytime youwant to come, man, we'll take
care of you. So all right, well, hey, let's do this.
Let's let's put a cap on thisthing. Hops and Hogs Episode one,

(01:09:56):
the mission. That's Aaron and Johnfrom Northern Fire Grilling and Barbecue Supply,
Ken Smith of Heavy Rotation Brewing,and Me Nordo. Thank you so
much for listening to Hops and Hoggs. It's a barbecue podcast. Subscribe and
listen via the free iHeartRadio app orwherever else you get your podcasts, and
follow us on x or Twitter athops, Hogs, bbq, Brack of
Beer, Fire up that smoker,and we'll talk again in a couple of weeks