June 3, 2024 • 26 mins
#139. Ron talks with Michael Eliran of New York indie rock band Dolly about reconnecting with his musical community, shortening his band name, touring with Michael Imperioli, and the trials and tribulations that led to a new EP.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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(00:07):
Hello music fan and or maker.Are you like me? Still making records?
What's wrong with you? And howare you gonna get folks to listen
to that new tune on their electronicdo hikis easy? Distro Kid a new
sponsor. Yeah, play it again? New single, new album? Yeah,
(00:31):
you got options for digital distribution,but distro kid is my choice and
has been since twenty sixteen. Everytime I put out something new, I
just upload my song on my albummark and let distro kid guide me through
the rest. Plus, if yousign up for a membership, you get
all these cool promo tools that areeasy to use free. You can create
your official artist channel on YouTube's andalbum credits to stores, and you can
(00:54):
even create a personal landing page foryour band. Stop jackasses from stealing your
music and uploading get to streaming serviceswithout your permission with distro lock, and
you can even create promo cards andmany videos to promote your release on social
media. I've done it. Letdistro kid help you roll out your next
release. Sign up now get thirtypercent off your membership at DistroKid dot com
(01:18):
slash vip slash independent Minded that's DistroKiddot com slash vip slash Independent Minded.
Listen, kids, I hardly everpick up sponsors on this podcast, so
if I'm pushing one on you,you know it's legit thirty percent off.
That's more than twenty percent DistroKid dotcom slash vip slash Independent Minded. Take
(01:41):
a peek. You're the one thatshould be worried. You're a freak.
You're reading for big trouble. Iget at clim money dy. I still
(02:06):
to five hard to just survive.It's not nerdy. I try, I
try, I try. The independentartist is a door opener. They accept
(02:35):
challenges, invitations, and proposals,often unawares of what's waiting on the other
side. They're always up against it, the precious of time, attention,
and an unforgiving industry. They taketheir lumps and their hard knocks, all
in service of the art. Someof the doors are massive, some are
tiny, Some open to dead ends, others lead to new doors and new
(02:57):
opportunities. Michael Eleron is one ofthose artists. New York based band Dolly
was on Independent Minded back in twentyeighteen, and I was psyched to open
the door for him back when Istill lived in New York. Back when
the band was called Dolly Spartan's Ihave Michael Eleron, Is that right?
Did I do it right? Yeah? You nailed it nice? And Jesse
Barrevic, Yeah, two for twofrom Dolly Spartan's how you guys doing today?
(03:22):
Good? Thank you so much forhaving us my pleasure. I guess
I can describe you guys as agarage rock band. Now, Michael,
you're from New York City right Manhattanright here, so you probably didn't have
a garage. I'm gonna guess ifyou lived in Manhattan. No, it
was more a metaphysical garage. Itwas a metaphysical garage, all right,
How would you? It's funny because, you know, before I logged onto
the call, I was thinking thesame thing. I was like, it's
(03:43):
crazy that six years ago we wereyou know, I mean we saw each
other twice, but six years agowe saw each other, and here we
are again, and so much shithas happened in between, not just on
a personal scale, but obviously ines sense of the whole world. I
last saw Michael soon after I'd movedto Washington, d C. It was
my birthday weekend. It was myfirst time seeing Dolly Spartan's Live. Michael
(04:08):
and I hugged after the show.We reminisced about the interview. He wished
me a happy birthday and gave mea Dolly Spartan's baseball cap. In the
five plus years since that encounter,Dolly hasn't exactly been prolific. Like a
lot of other bands during this period, they had to pause for a while
and readjust to a new world.But a new EP entitled Interloper has put
(04:29):
Michael and Dolly back in the gameand back on the map. An incredible
five song earworm that's infectiously aggressive inspots, hauntingly beautiful in others. It
immediately caught my attention and had meinterested in reconnecting with Michael. For episode
one thirty nine of Independent Minded,I had a friend who started working at
a studio like an hour and ahalf out of the city in Hopewell Junction
(04:49):
called Holy Fang, which, likefor the past like five years, has
kind of become a second home ofsorts. He had just started working there
with my friend Henry in and said, Hey, I have access to the
studio. I'm trying to record people. I'm just getting in. You know,
do you want to record something.Michael's not a rock star, but
(05:11):
he's a musical magnet. I said, sure, I have this song.
I don't really know what I wantto do with it. It's very different
from anything I had done with theband at that point, but I was
like, this is the first songI've written, and God knows how long
His songwriting skills, his talent,his sensitivity, his undeniable niceness seems to
have most everyone he encounters wanting towork with him, eager to contribute and
collaborate. It's a unique quality thatgravity pull, and it's a major reason
(05:36):
why Michael has regained some momentum.It was the first time I had gone
in without a plan or expectation ofwhat the song was supposed to be,
and so that set forth in motion. It's a really good year of writing
and recording. Michael and I talkabout the trials and tribulations of the last
(06:04):
half decade, the making of thenew EP, Escaping New York City,
and how is love and respect forDolly Parton influenced the decision to shorten his
band's name. Let's kick it offwith process from the Interloper EP. Then
my catch up conversation with Michael Eleronright here on Independent Minded Rondado's Mazy podcast
(06:26):
Rondados Pays podcast, tugging of peoplemake God music, plugging their project,
making the famous, helping about doesmy ma s talk about all the bush?
(07:28):
Keep it inside, keep it intime, do solve that it different?
It's motor side, just move sonis large finalself that step, sit
inside, keep it straight, youreceive large lit'll come what disappee selling side,
(08:03):
let it see it, let usbread setting side, feeling the passing,
traveling around to get dissipated to nothingnothing so good. So into fall
(08:24):
into the father, see you gointo your fall until the full. I
(09:24):
recorded that with these two really greatmusicians, Julian Fader and Carlos Hernandez,
and they're both in a really greatband called Ava Luna, who've been around
for a while. I've been afan of them since I was a teen,
so it's cool to work with them, become friends with them. Michael
Eleron is a name dropper. He'snot trying to impress me. He just
can't help sharing the credit with everyonewho helps him make music. I'm very
(09:48):
lucky, you know. I've madea lot of friends with a lot of
people, and I have so manypeople who are very talented and happen to
enjoy my music as much as Ienjoy theirs. This is one of the
reasons I love Michael Quick to tossflowers to his collaborators, his managers,
his bandmates past and present. Hedid same the last time we talked,
leaving me with a list of artistsand musicians to check out. In the
(10:09):
wake of our conversation. His workwith Henry Munson on the song Interloper led
to a deeper connection to his newrecording space in Hopewell Junction, a tiny
town in upstate New York. Ibecame really good friends with the head producer
and owner of the space, OliverIgnatius, who's really been part of the
music scene for a while, andhe's just a very not just like thorough
(10:33):
and committed to his craft, buthe's also a very honest and earnest,
nobleshit guy. I think there wasa period of time where I was getting
very jaded with a lot of howit seemed like the industry was moving,
like kind of been layers of ironyand all this stuff that it wasn't my
thing, you know, it becamea really good partnership me and Oliver because
(10:54):
we were both very into like atthat point, I had entered a very
big beach boy phase. I havethe Westland Cabin's classes. So Oliver knows
pretty much every single thing there isto know about the Beach Boys. To
this day, he still shows menew stuff about it that I'm like,
(11:16):
how the hell to even know?And so he and I had recorded a
song together that we did end upusing, but we also began recording towards
the end of that year the songyou Are, which would kind of become
my favorite on the EP, andthe one I'm really really proud of You're
my shuter everything. If I havethe world, that's say right, if
(11:45):
I have the word that's right.I was like, oh shit, maybe
this is the next EP. Allthese songs are really really different, but
wow, okay, sure, let'slet's go with it. You on and
I'd let you don take it offfrom mele me down on the fuck Like
(12:09):
pretty much every other artist on theplanet at this time, Michael's musical plans
are stalled by a global pandemic,but the pastoral backdrop of Holy Fang provide
solace and comfort during a dark timeand escape from an abandoned city. It
really fucked with me. Honestly,it really fucked me. I'm sure it
fucked with many more people. Iknow, people who've lost all kinds of
(12:30):
people. And I had gotten very, very very anxious about literally even touching
like a wall or something. Youknow, like when you're left in that
headspace without any means of actually beingable to get outside of it, it
fucks with you. So like,one of the few places where I actually
felt like I could escape from thatwas Holy Fang the studio, and thank
(12:52):
God for It's. It's. Michael'sretreat from society is a mixed bag.
He bonds with his ailing dad,but outside of his retreats to the studio,
his musical communion grinds to a halt, and then as the world slowly
(13:15):
opens up, so does Michael.He connects with new bandmates via the usual
channels at post punk shows he attendsas a fan with members of other bands
he's toured with. It's an everrevolving orbit of satellites that Michael's built since
high school, since the early daysof Dolly Spartan's When I mention all these
people it's just because they sincerely havelike influenced me so much as like kind
(13:35):
of how to operate, not justas a musician and as a band leader
or just a person in a band, but as a person. Like these
are someone like closest friends and someof my favorite people. I really owe
a lot to them, perpetually andconsistently. Phil is in a band called
Drug Bug, and Eden used toplay drums in that band, and they
(13:56):
booked a tour and they asked mea little after Time Sides came out twenty
seventeen if we wanted to tour withthem, and I said, yeah,
of course. I heard some ofthe music from like Little Clips and it's
unda fantastic, and so yeah,we all met in uh, Poughkeepsie,
I think it was I think theplace is called Dark Side Records or something.
(14:18):
That was the first stop, andthat really genuinely began like years long
friendships. Like I really admire andlove both of them very deeply, as
I do every single person you knowin the band now and so many of
the people that have played in theband, even if it's just for like
one offs. Music is a connectingforce, and I think that's what's become
(14:58):
more and more apparent to me nowand living here in the city, like,
I understand why people get tired ofit. People you know, come
here really attracted to it, andthen people get overwhelmed by it and jaded
towards it and leave. I think, having been here my whole life,
I've gone through similar waves. ButI feel very grateful now. It feels
like, for the first time ina very long time that there is a
(15:22):
certain wave of incredibly talented artists whogenuinely love what they're doing and it's not
just like chasing you know, cloudor whatever. They inspire me with what
they're putting out. Michael decided todrop the Spartans from his band name.
Last year. We had played areally great show with this band SOPA.
(15:45):
I don't know if you know them. They're really cool, very velvet underground.
Inspired a lot of homework to doafter this conversation. Well, actually
SOPA is fronted by or I guessco fronted by the actor Michael imperially if
you know, of course what whatget back in a booth. They've been
around for a while and they're great, you know, and we were lucky
(16:07):
to stay with them. And getto tour with them and stuff. You
toured with Michael IMPERIALI, Oh,yeah, yeah, he's he's awesome and
he he knows so fucking much aboutmusic and like about so many things.
He recommended me some awesome stuff.So we take it from the top.
We'll use a ukulele. After thatshow, we kind of had we had
a talk with our you know,manager, and with someone who were booking,
(16:29):
and we just kind of came tothis realization that this music is not
the same as what we had beenputting out. And it didn't necessarily feel
like, oh, we're just takinga left turn. It almost felt like
we were restarting something. I mean, at this point, it had been
maybe five sixty years since Time Sidescame out. It felt like an entirely
(16:51):
different thing, to be honest.I mean, the name Dolly Swarten's worked
for us, you know in termsof like, oh, people would remember
it, but it honestly, itmade me cringe to even say the name.
Anytime anyone would ask me what myband name was, I'd be like,
I'd have to take a breath,you know, because I came up
with it when I was sixteen.You know, it was just like enough
is enough. I didn't want tobe a pun name band. I didn't
want to. I didn't really wantto be attached to it anymore. I
(17:15):
wanted sort of a fresh start.It'd been long enough that we were essentially
from a certain standpoint, starting fromscratch anyway. I love Dolly Parton,
I am you know. I thinkshe's amazing. I've always really, actually,
very much liked her music. Irealized over time that it almost sounded
like we were making fun of DollyParton by saying dollies, but like it
felt like being cheeky about her tonguein cheek pun like. I don't know,
(17:37):
I respect her a lot. Ireally like her music. I love
like she's a very like giving andcaring person and like a philanthropist, and
she's a pretty remarkable person in alot of ways. So I wanted to,
you know, I didn't want tobe unserious with her name anymore.
The new Dolly EP sounds like theDolly Spartans EPs that came before it,
(18:00):
but there's more nuanced this time.The parts are more intricate, the songwriting's
more mature. You can hear thetelevision and talking heads influences, the raw
noise and sometimes off the wall dynamicbuilds employed by contemporaries like Dry Cleaning and
squid. So why isn't Dolly gettingthe same notice as those bands? I
think if there's one thing I've learnedthrough making this EP is that you can't
(18:22):
you can't control it. You know, you can't control the people who are
going to listen and it's gonna clickwith them, and they're gonna listen to
repeat, or they'll listen to fiveseconds of a song and say eh,
you know, or they may notclick on whatever ad. You know,
you can do everything you can,and I think leading up to the way
this EP was made, there wasso much energy and time put into it.
(18:42):
I think it's very easy to buildup a sense of like, oh,
this has to be heard by asmany people as possible. Oh this
has to you know, otherwise what'sit all for? And that's just not
it's not true, it's not whatI think anymore masking. I think the
(19:04):
moment that the EP got put out, I sort of just took a breath
and disengaged all the stuff that Ithink I had worried about, you know,
like, you know, whether ornot to get written up by this
or featured on this playlist or whatever. Like the only reason I thought I
realized I cared is because, likeI discovered music that way. Them meant
a lot to me. All theselittle benchmarks, all these little you know,
(19:26):
playlisting and all that stuff. LikeI don't want to say it doesn't
matter, but if you make that, you're guiding force of like to know
whether or not you're doing well.As maybe at one point in time I
would have or maybe try to fora little bit. It's just gonna it's
gonna drive you crazy. It's gonnadrive you crazy. And so like there
was a conversation about, oh,at this point, should we wait and
(19:48):
come up with you know, fivesix more tracks and make an album.
I had a couple songs I couldhave added on there. The four songs
felt like they were a part ofsomething. I'd envision them being a part
of something. I didn't think thatthere needed to be more. I didn't
want to wait until I had somemore because it wouldn't it already wouldn't be
connected to it. There's no guaranteeof its gonna come up with something.
(20:11):
I like. It just felt likeI want to prove to myself that I
can put this out, I canfucking finish it, be done with it
after all this time. Let itgo, and whoever enjoys it enjoys it,
and that's great. We're not supposedto be thinking about content like that's
such a such a bleak thing thatthat's become a part of the title of
musician. You know, I makemusic because this is what I like to
(20:36):
do. This is what helps meexpress myself in some way or another,
and it is exciting to me.And if people listen, or if they
don't listen, that's great. Andit took me a long time to realize
that, because I very much wantedpeople to listen for a very long time.
And obviously, who doesn't want peopleto listen to your own music if
you're putting it out there in thepublic. Michael's naturally gifted, the young
(21:22):
savant who leaves the rest of usin the dust. It's in his jeans
and his blood. He learned pianoand guitar before puberty. He plays pretty
much all the instruments on a lotof his songs. Even if he has
lots of help, he's still asuper nova all on his own. I
was obsessed with the Beatles for along time, and then from there I
moved to like Phoenix and the Strokes. When I was in middle school and
(21:44):
early high school was like Radiohead andmy buddy Valentine Sebado guided by Voices,
Ty Seagull, Gang of four TalkingHeads. All of those like sort of
started becoming like there were little bitsand pieces of everything that I sort of
was like, Wow, that's exactlythe kind of thing I want to do.
Let me try that. And itchanges the way you think about approaching
a song or approaching a part foran instrument or whatever. And that is
(22:07):
the thing that I love most aboutmusic is that you can still discover new
tricks, you can still discover newways to do things. Michael Eleron was
just a kid when we first met. He thought he had a plan an
ideology about musical aspirations, and thencircumstances stripped all that away. Naturally,
the music evolved, it blossomed.Maybe it was the same circumstances that caused
(22:30):
that, or maybe regardless of circumstance, Michael's just been doing a lot of
growing up. Obviously, I'm awork in progress. I'm constantly trying to
fight like the part of me thathas ego gets over ambitious and you know,
needs that validation. I think,like, thank god, I've been
working with Mamanager, Alisha and Zayfor a while now and they know me
(22:52):
well, and obviously I've grown alot because of an alongside them. All
Right, fucky down, and aftera series of well produced EPs, Dolly
is finally ready to put forth atthe full length album. I used to
(23:12):
get so hung up about doing thingsby a certain age or by at a
certain point, and like, youknow, because the industry really tries to
emphasize youth in this very unhealthy way. And I am so glad that,
like, I don't believe in thatanymore. I don't think it matters when
you do things as long as youdo them. At some point, I
(23:33):
think subconsciously I'd been putting it offfor a long time. The more I
put out EPs, you know,a little statements, I can figure out
what it is I want to actuallydo and say on an album. And
now I'm just sort of going forit because I've thankfully had a lot of
people who have helped me realize thatyou just kind of have to go for
it. Same hookst around. It'sme through the ist, Lingo, the
(24:03):
threes, through the stuff, Lingos, the tree, Tho scardered. I
think the biggest thing that I wantfor the future is a sense of joy
in what I do. I thinkthat's probably all I can really ask for.
Shades cause whipull my wall fall stin the darkness I can see just
(24:40):
exactly and so falls over me.Find out more here the new EP and
its entirety at Dolly Spartans dot bandcampdot com, and follow the band on
social media at Dolly Spartan's so goodto talk with Michael again, Pig.
(25:03):
Thanks to him for the fab conversation, and of course I got to send
some love to you, loyal listener. Independent Minded is celebrating its thirteenth season
and somehow we're both still here.Thanks for keeping us in your feed,
and if you're new to the podcast, follow subscribe me the kind review at
Apple podcast and on Spotify, andget the whole story at baldfreak dot com
(25:26):
slash podcast. If you're an indieartist interested in being featured on the show,
or you just want to say hello, drop me a note at ron
at baldfreak dot com. And gotto give a shout out to our new
sponsor, distro Kid, the digitalmusic distribution service that musicians use to put
music into online stores and streaming sites. You know them Spotify, Apple Music,
(25:47):
YouTube Music, Amazon, Deza,Title and the rest. Sign up
now get thirty percent off your membershipat DistroKid dot com slash vip slash Independent
minded dot com slash vip slash IndependentMinded. For thirty percent off your first
year of membership at distro kid IndependentMind. That is a bald freak music
(26:10):
production and me, I'm still RonScalzo. You're a national, You're a
freak. You're not
Hello music fan and or maker.Are you like me? Still making records?
What's wrong with you? And howare you gonna get folks to listen
to that new tune on their electronicdo hikis easy? Distro Kid a new
sponsor. Yeah, play it again? New single, new album? Yeah,
(00:31):
you got options for digital distribution,but distro kid is my choice and
has been since twenty sixteen. Everytime I put out something new, I
just upload my song on my albummark and let distro kid guide me through
the rest. Plus, if yousign up for a membership, you get
all these cool promo tools that areeasy to use free. You can create
your official artist channel on YouTube's andalbum credits to stores, and you can
(00:54):
even create a personal landing page foryour band. Stop jackasses from stealing your
music and uploading get to streaming serviceswithout your permission with distro lock, and
you can even create promo cards andmany videos to promote your release on social
media. I've done it. Letdistro kid help you roll out your next
release. Sign up now get thirtypercent off your membership at DistroKid dot com
(01:18):
slash vip slash independent Minded that's DistroKiddot com slash vip slash Independent Minded.
Listen, kids, I hardly everpick up sponsors on this podcast, so
if I'm pushing one on you,you know it's legit thirty percent off.
That's more than twenty percent DistroKid dotcom slash vip slash Independent Minded. Take
(01:41):
a peek. You're the one thatshould be worried. You're a freak.
You're reading for big trouble. Iget at clim money dy. I still
(02:06):
to five hard to just survive.It's not nerdy. I try, I
try, I try. The independentartist is a door opener. They accept
(02:35):
challenges, invitations, and proposals,often unawares of what's waiting on the other
side. They're always up against it, the precious of time, attention,
and an unforgiving industry. They taketheir lumps and their hard knocks, all
in service of the art. Someof the doors are massive, some are
tiny, Some open to dead ends, others lead to new doors and new
(02:57):
opportunities. Michael Eleron is one ofthose artists. New York based band Dolly
was on Independent Minded back in twentyeighteen, and I was psyched to open
the door for him back when Istill lived in New York. Back when
the band was called Dolly Spartan's Ihave Michael Eleron, Is that right?
Did I do it right? Yeah? You nailed it nice? And Jesse
Barrevic, Yeah, two for twofrom Dolly Spartan's how you guys doing today?
(03:22):
Good? Thank you so much forhaving us my pleasure. I guess
I can describe you guys as agarage rock band. Now, Michael,
you're from New York City right Manhattanright here, so you probably didn't have
a garage. I'm gonna guess ifyou lived in Manhattan. No, it
was more a metaphysical garage. Itwas a metaphysical garage, all right,
How would you? It's funny because, you know, before I logged onto
the call, I was thinking thesame thing. I was like, it's
(03:43):
crazy that six years ago we wereyou know, I mean we saw each
other twice, but six years agowe saw each other, and here we
are again, and so much shithas happened in between, not just on
a personal scale, but obviously ines sense of the whole world. I
last saw Michael soon after I'd movedto Washington, d C. It was
my birthday weekend. It was myfirst time seeing Dolly Spartan's Live. Michael
(04:08):
and I hugged after the show.We reminisced about the interview. He wished
me a happy birthday and gave mea Dolly Spartan's baseball cap. In the
five plus years since that encounter,Dolly hasn't exactly been prolific. Like a
lot of other bands during this period, they had to pause for a while
and readjust to a new world.But a new EP entitled Interloper has put
(04:29):
Michael and Dolly back in the gameand back on the map. An incredible
five song earworm that's infectiously aggressive inspots, hauntingly beautiful in others. It
immediately caught my attention and had meinterested in reconnecting with Michael. For episode
one thirty nine of Independent Minded,I had a friend who started working at
a studio like an hour and ahalf out of the city in Hopewell Junction
(04:49):
called Holy Fang, which, likefor the past like five years, has
kind of become a second home ofsorts. He had just started working there
with my friend Henry in and said, Hey, I have access to the
studio. I'm trying to record people. I'm just getting in. You know,
do you want to record something.Michael's not a rock star, but
(05:11):
he's a musical magnet. I said, sure, I have this song.
I don't really know what I wantto do with it. It's very different
from anything I had done with theband at that point, but I was
like, this is the first songI've written, and God knows how long
His songwriting skills, his talent,his sensitivity, his undeniable niceness seems to
have most everyone he encounters wanting towork with him, eager to contribute and
collaborate. It's a unique quality thatgravity pull, and it's a major reason
(05:36):
why Michael has regained some momentum.It was the first time I had gone
in without a plan or expectation ofwhat the song was supposed to be,
and so that set forth in motion. It's a really good year of writing
and recording. Michael and I talkabout the trials and tribulations of the last
(06:04):
half decade, the making of thenew EP, Escaping New York City,
and how is love and respect forDolly Parton influenced the decision to shorten his
band's name. Let's kick it offwith process from the Interloper EP. Then
my catch up conversation with Michael Eleronright here on Independent Minded Rondado's Mazy podcast
(06:26):
Rondados Pays podcast, tugging of peoplemake God music, plugging their project,
making the famous, helping about doesmy ma s talk about all the bush?
(07:28):
Keep it inside, keep it intime, do solve that it different?
It's motor side, just move sonis large finalself that step, sit
inside, keep it straight, youreceive large lit'll come what disappee selling side,
(08:03):
let it see it, let usbread setting side, feeling the passing,
traveling around to get dissipated to nothingnothing so good. So into fall
(08:24):
into the father, see you gointo your fall until the full. I
(09:24):
recorded that with these two really greatmusicians, Julian Fader and Carlos Hernandez,
and they're both in a really greatband called Ava Luna, who've been around
for a while. I've been afan of them since I was a teen,
so it's cool to work with them, become friends with them. Michael
Eleron is a name dropper. He'snot trying to impress me. He just
can't help sharing the credit with everyonewho helps him make music. I'm very
(09:48):
lucky, you know. I've madea lot of friends with a lot of
people, and I have so manypeople who are very talented and happen to
enjoy my music as much as Ienjoy theirs. This is one of the
reasons I love Michael Quick to tossflowers to his collaborators, his managers,
his bandmates past and present. Hedid same the last time we talked,
leaving me with a list of artistsand musicians to check out. In the
(10:09):
wake of our conversation. His workwith Henry Munson on the song Interloper led
to a deeper connection to his newrecording space in Hopewell Junction, a tiny
town in upstate New York. Ibecame really good friends with the head producer
and owner of the space, OliverIgnatius, who's really been part of the
music scene for a while, andhe's just a very not just like thorough
(10:33):
and committed to his craft, buthe's also a very honest and earnest,
nobleshit guy. I think there wasa period of time where I was getting
very jaded with a lot of howit seemed like the industry was moving,
like kind of been layers of ironyand all this stuff that it wasn't my
thing, you know, it becamea really good partnership me and Oliver because
(10:54):
we were both very into like atthat point, I had entered a very
big beach boy phase. I havethe Westland Cabin's classes. So Oliver knows
pretty much every single thing there isto know about the Beach Boys. To
this day, he still shows menew stuff about it that I'm like,
(11:16):
how the hell to even know?And so he and I had recorded a
song together that we did end upusing, but we also began recording towards
the end of that year the songyou Are, which would kind of become
my favorite on the EP, andthe one I'm really really proud of You're
my shuter everything. If I havethe world, that's say right, if
(11:45):
I have the word that's right.I was like, oh shit, maybe
this is the next EP. Allthese songs are really really different, but
wow, okay, sure, let'slet's go with it. You on and
I'd let you don take it offfrom mele me down on the fuck Like
(12:09):
pretty much every other artist on theplanet at this time, Michael's musical plans
are stalled by a global pandemic,but the pastoral backdrop of Holy Fang provide
solace and comfort during a dark timeand escape from an abandoned city. It
really fucked with me. Honestly,it really fucked me. I'm sure it
fucked with many more people. Iknow, people who've lost all kinds of
(12:30):
people. And I had gotten very, very very anxious about literally even touching
like a wall or something. Youknow, like when you're left in that
headspace without any means of actually beingable to get outside of it, it
fucks with you. So like,one of the few places where I actually
felt like I could escape from thatwas Holy Fang the studio, and thank
(12:52):
God for It's. It's. Michael'sretreat from society is a mixed bag.
He bonds with his ailing dad,but outside of his retreats to the studio,
his musical communion grinds to a halt, and then as the world slowly
(13:15):
opens up, so does Michael.He connects with new bandmates via the usual
channels at post punk shows he attendsas a fan with members of other bands
he's toured with. It's an everrevolving orbit of satellites that Michael's built since
high school, since the early daysof Dolly Spartan's When I mention all these
people it's just because they sincerely havelike influenced me so much as like kind
(13:35):
of how to operate, not justas a musician and as a band leader
or just a person in a band, but as a person. Like these
are someone like closest friends and someof my favorite people. I really owe
a lot to them, perpetually andconsistently. Phil is in a band called
Drug Bug, and Eden used toplay drums in that band, and they
(13:56):
booked a tour and they asked mea little after Time Sides came out twenty
seventeen if we wanted to tour withthem, and I said, yeah,
of course. I heard some ofthe music from like Little Clips and it's
unda fantastic, and so yeah,we all met in uh, Poughkeepsie,
I think it was I think theplace is called Dark Side Records or something.
(14:18):
That was the first stop, andthat really genuinely began like years long
friendships. Like I really admire andlove both of them very deeply, as
I do every single person you knowin the band now and so many of
the people that have played in theband, even if it's just for like
one offs. Music is a connectingforce, and I think that's what's become
(14:58):
more and more apparent to me nowand living here in the city, like,
I understand why people get tired ofit. People you know, come
here really attracted to it, andthen people get overwhelmed by it and jaded
towards it and leave. I think, having been here my whole life,
I've gone through similar waves. ButI feel very grateful now. It feels
like, for the first time ina very long time that there is a
(15:22):
certain wave of incredibly talented artists whogenuinely love what they're doing and it's not
just like chasing you know, cloudor whatever. They inspire me with what
they're putting out. Michael decided todrop the Spartans from his band name.
Last year. We had played areally great show with this band SOPA.
(15:45):
I don't know if you know them. They're really cool, very velvet underground.
Inspired a lot of homework to doafter this conversation. Well, actually
SOPA is fronted by or I guessco fronted by the actor Michael imperially if
you know, of course what whatget back in a booth. They've been
around for a while and they're great, you know, and we were lucky
(16:07):
to stay with them. And getto tour with them and stuff. You
toured with Michael IMPERIALI, Oh,yeah, yeah, he's he's awesome and
he he knows so fucking much aboutmusic and like about so many things.
He recommended me some awesome stuff.So we take it from the top.
We'll use a ukulele. After thatshow, we kind of had we had
a talk with our you know,manager, and with someone who were booking,
(16:29):
and we just kind of came tothis realization that this music is not
the same as what we had beenputting out. And it didn't necessarily feel
like, oh, we're just takinga left turn. It almost felt like
we were restarting something. I mean, at this point, it had been
maybe five sixty years since Time Sidescame out. It felt like an entirely
(16:51):
different thing, to be honest.I mean, the name Dolly Swarten's worked
for us, you know in termsof like, oh, people would remember
it, but it honestly, itmade me cringe to even say the name.
Anytime anyone would ask me what myband name was, I'd be like,
I'd have to take a breath,you know, because I came up
with it when I was sixteen.You know, it was just like enough
is enough. I didn't want tobe a pun name band. I didn't
want to. I didn't really wantto be attached to it anymore. I
(17:15):
wanted sort of a fresh start.It'd been long enough that we were essentially
from a certain standpoint, starting fromscratch anyway. I love Dolly Parton,
I am you know. I thinkshe's amazing. I've always really, actually,
very much liked her music. Irealized over time that it almost sounded
like we were making fun of DollyParton by saying dollies, but like it
felt like being cheeky about her tonguein cheek pun like. I don't know,
(17:37):
I respect her a lot. Ireally like her music. I love
like she's a very like giving andcaring person and like a philanthropist, and
she's a pretty remarkable person in alot of ways. So I wanted to,
you know, I didn't want tobe unserious with her name anymore.
The new Dolly EP sounds like theDolly Spartans EPs that came before it,
(18:00):
but there's more nuanced this time.The parts are more intricate, the songwriting's
more mature. You can hear thetelevision and talking heads influences, the raw
noise and sometimes off the wall dynamicbuilds employed by contemporaries like Dry Cleaning and
squid. So why isn't Dolly gettingthe same notice as those bands? I
think if there's one thing I've learnedthrough making this EP is that you can't
(18:22):
you can't control it. You know, you can't control the people who are
going to listen and it's gonna clickwith them, and they're gonna listen to
repeat, or they'll listen to fiveseconds of a song and say eh,
you know, or they may notclick on whatever ad. You know,
you can do everything you can,and I think leading up to the way
this EP was made, there wasso much energy and time put into it.
(18:42):
I think it's very easy to buildup a sense of like, oh,
this has to be heard by asmany people as possible. Oh this
has to you know, otherwise what'sit all for? And that's just not
it's not true, it's not whatI think anymore masking. I think the
(19:04):
moment that the EP got put out, I sort of just took a breath
and disengaged all the stuff that Ithink I had worried about, you know,
like, you know, whether ornot to get written up by this
or featured on this playlist or whatever. Like the only reason I thought I
realized I cared is because, likeI discovered music that way. Them meant
a lot to me. All theselittle benchmarks, all these little you know,
(19:26):
playlisting and all that stuff. LikeI don't want to say it doesn't
matter, but if you make that, you're guiding force of like to know
whether or not you're doing well.As maybe at one point in time I
would have or maybe try to fora little bit. It's just gonna it's
gonna drive you crazy. It's gonnadrive you crazy. And so like there
was a conversation about, oh,at this point, should we wait and
(19:48):
come up with you know, fivesix more tracks and make an album.
I had a couple songs I couldhave added on there. The four songs
felt like they were a part ofsomething. I'd envision them being a part
of something. I didn't think thatthere needed to be more. I didn't
want to wait until I had somemore because it wouldn't it already wouldn't be
connected to it. There's no guaranteeof its gonna come up with something.
(20:11):
I like. It just felt likeI want to prove to myself that I
can put this out, I canfucking finish it, be done with it
after all this time. Let itgo, and whoever enjoys it enjoys it,
and that's great. We're not supposedto be thinking about content like that's
such a such a bleak thing thatthat's become a part of the title of
musician. You know, I makemusic because this is what I like to
(20:36):
do. This is what helps meexpress myself in some way or another,
and it is exciting to me.And if people listen, or if they
don't listen, that's great. Andit took me a long time to realize
that, because I very much wantedpeople to listen for a very long time.
And obviously, who doesn't want peopleto listen to your own music if
you're putting it out there in thepublic. Michael's naturally gifted, the young
(21:22):
savant who leaves the rest of usin the dust. It's in his jeans
and his blood. He learned pianoand guitar before puberty. He plays pretty
much all the instruments on a lotof his songs. Even if he has
lots of help, he's still asuper nova all on his own. I
was obsessed with the Beatles for along time, and then from there I
moved to like Phoenix and the Strokes. When I was in middle school and
(21:44):
early high school was like Radiohead andmy buddy Valentine Sebado guided by Voices,
Ty Seagull, Gang of four TalkingHeads. All of those like sort of
started becoming like there were little bitsand pieces of everything that I sort of
was like, Wow, that's exactlythe kind of thing I want to do.
Let me try that. And itchanges the way you think about approaching
a song or approaching a part foran instrument or whatever. And that is
(22:07):
the thing that I love most aboutmusic is that you can still discover new
tricks, you can still discover newways to do things. Michael Eleron was
just a kid when we first met. He thought he had a plan an
ideology about musical aspirations, and thencircumstances stripped all that away. Naturally,
the music evolved, it blossomed.Maybe it was the same circumstances that caused
(22:30):
that, or maybe regardless of circumstance, Michael's just been doing a lot of
growing up. Obviously, I'm awork in progress. I'm constantly trying to
fight like the part of me thathas ego gets over ambitious and you know,
needs that validation. I think,like, thank god, I've been
working with Mamanager, Alisha and Zayfor a while now and they know me
(22:52):
well, and obviously I've grown alot because of an alongside them. All
Right, fucky down, and aftera series of well produced EPs, Dolly
is finally ready to put forth atthe full length album. I used to
(23:12):
get so hung up about doing thingsby a certain age or by at a
certain point, and like, youknow, because the industry really tries to
emphasize youth in this very unhealthy way. And I am so glad that,
like, I don't believe in thatanymore. I don't think it matters when
you do things as long as youdo them. At some point, I
(23:33):
think subconsciously I'd been putting it offfor a long time. The more I
put out EPs, you know,a little statements, I can figure out
what it is I want to actuallydo and say on an album. And
now I'm just sort of going forit because I've thankfully had a lot of
people who have helped me realize thatyou just kind of have to go for
it. Same hookst around. It'sme through the ist, Lingo, the
(24:03):
threes, through the stuff, Lingos, the tree, Tho scardered. I
think the biggest thing that I wantfor the future is a sense of joy
in what I do. I thinkthat's probably all I can really ask for.
Shades cause whipull my wall fall stin the darkness I can see just
(24:40):
exactly and so falls over me.Find out more here the new EP and
its entirety at Dolly Spartans dot bandcampdot com, and follow the band on
social media at Dolly Spartan's so goodto talk with Michael again, Pig.
(25:03):
Thanks to him for the fab conversation, and of course I got to send
some love to you, loyal listener. Independent Minded is celebrating its thirteenth season
and somehow we're both still here.Thanks for keeping us in your feed,
and if you're new to the podcast, follow subscribe me the kind review at
Apple podcast and on Spotify, andget the whole story at baldfreak dot com
(25:26):
slash podcast. If you're an indieartist interested in being featured on the show,
or you just want to say hello, drop me a note at ron
at baldfreak dot com. And gotto give a shout out to our new
sponsor, distro Kid, the digitalmusic distribution service that musicians use to put
music into online stores and streaming sites. You know them Spotify, Apple Music,
(25:47):
YouTube Music, Amazon, Deza,Title and the rest. Sign up
now get thirty percent off your membershipat DistroKid dot com slash vip slash Independent
minded dot com slash vip slash IndependentMinded. For thirty percent off your first
year of membership at distro kid IndependentMind. That is a bald freak music
(26:10):
production and me, I'm still RonScalzo. You're a national, You're a
freak. You're not
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