Episode 17 - Mina Kimes

Mina Kimes is a senior writer and reporter for ESPN where she mainly covers the NFL. She offers her analysis on several shows including NFL Live, Get Up, First Take and SportsCenter.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is interrupted by Matt Jones. It is episode seventeen
of Interrupted by Matt Jones, presented by Cornbrad Hemp. This
is the good life. I love to do well. I
love to talk to interesting people, and one of my
favorite people to talk to is Mina Kimes of ESPN.
She does NFL Live but also does a million other

(00:24):
things and is an overall smart person, and we like
smart people on this show. And Mina, it is nice
to have you on.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
It's good to catch up. It's been a really long.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Time, it has. I think the first time you and
I talked was during COVID. We did one of these
as everybody was bored out of their minds, and you know,
you've maintained there at ESPN. A lot of the people
that I really liked over the years have slowly fallen
to the side, but Mina remains holding the four down.

(00:55):
So I'm glad to see that.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I do my best. Yeah, we're very lucky to NFL Live,
which is my main show. ESPN has stayed together now
for five six years, which is pretty rare in our industry.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
And you have all the people that I like. You
have Danielovski, you got Laura Rutledge. You got my guy
what Marcus spears right? So you're all You're all on
there and that's it seems like a fun show to do,
is it?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
It is such a such a fun show to do.
We are on site for Monday Night football this year
almost every Monday.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh you are?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I know. Yeah, we're gonna be on site, which is
always fine with with the gang. And we're got Chicago
week one bears Vikings like great Monday Night get It's
a good one. I'm excited about it.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
So yeah, Cincinnati one of them. If so, I may
try to come up there and bother everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
I didn't see them on the schedule in the first
two months. Maybe later in the season.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Do you like going you like traveling and going to
all those games. I'm somebody who loves to travel for
the job, but some people are homebodies. Do you like it?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I like traveling to anywhere I can reach without connecting.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay, so do you all tape that in LA or
do you type it in New York?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's a mix. I mean we do. We do a
lot in Bristol, and I'll be in Bristol on a
few tuesdays this year and then some it's remote, some
it's in New York, some it's on site. It's all
over the place, but a lot of on site this year.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Tell people, Tell people what because I don't think a
lot of people realize what Bristol, Connecticut is like because
everybody has this glamorous notion of what ESPN is. I'm
in Bristol like three times a year, and there's that
one hotel that everybody stays at. And then like, where
do you eat when you're there? I always struggle to
find a place to eat.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
West Harford is where like a lot of espnrs live
around there. Okay, there's a lot of actually really good
restaurants there. It's about twenty five twenty minutes from Bristol
for those It's basically a college campus, is how I
would describe Bristol, right. It feels like even when you're
on the ESPN campus, it feels like like a small college, yes,

(02:55):
where there's not a lot going.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
On, not a lot. It's like it's like Transylvania where
I went to school, Like you kind of everybody knows
everybody and you're you're hoping to meet new people. But
then sometimes you'll get days where you look up and
the rock is there something you know there are there?
It is cool. Sometimes random people end up.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
There, definitely. I have told this story before, but my
very first day of ESPN, the first time I ever
went to the campus in Bristol, when I was hired,
back when I was a writer twenty fourteen, fifteen. It
has been a long time now, I got lost. It
was kind of an empty day on campus for some reason,
and I couldn't figure out where I was and I

(03:32):
was clearly wandering around lost and then I got someone
tap me on the back and say, excuse me, miss,
you look lost, And it was Jerome Bettis, which was like,
I felt like I was in a Sports Center commercial.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
That is a Sports Center commercial.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
You're Jerome Bettis.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I no wonder when I'm there. I'm usually there around
the NCAA tournament selection show and it's and they're all
college basketball people, but the rest of people aren't there,
and I do what I do, sort of envy what
it had to be like in the golden days before
there was ESPN LA and before they had the New
York studios and where everyone was there. I have to
say that had to be kind of cool back in

(04:08):
the day, don't you think.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, we're really all spread out now, right, Yeah, like
SVPs in DC, for example, got a lot of folks
in New York the Morning shows. Steven A's in New
York slash Miami. So yeah, chances are less than before
that you would run into some familiar face.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
I was at Seaport once when steven A got brought in.
And you don't have to laugh at this because you
have to work with these people, and I don't, but
I did think it was very funny. I was in
Seaport and steven A comes in, and you know, there's
nobody there, like Seaport is kind of empty, like there's
nobody there. And he gets out of the car and
you know when people on TV see steven A do

(04:45):
those like walk ins where he acts like he's a
professional wrestler and he sort of, you know, buttons the
coat and kind of walks it that he was walking
into seaport like that, and he had like six security guys,
but no one was there but me, And I feel
like saying, guys, you could take me, you don't. There
no need to be six of you if something happens.
So you know, that's that's it's kind of funny, all right.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
He is like more famous than a lot of athletes.
Like people laugh when he says that because he himself
is said that, but it is true, like I having
been you know, when you go to games, it is
remarkable how many people do come up to him, and
he's the person at ESPN I get asked about the most.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
I bet that's true. Have you endorsed him for president yet?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
I have endorsed him for continuing to do first?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Okay, that's what I like. That's a very diplomatic, diplomatic answer.
Before I want to talk with you about the NFL.
But let me ask you one more ESPN question. The
you You've had so many different like you have been
there over ten years now and I I've been there through.

(05:52):
I have a small job, but lots of different changes.
Do you feel when you're at ESPN, how the culture goes.
I mean there was a time that doing shows like
you all even do with NFL Live that are more
personality driven would have been frowned on. And now that's
much more approved. Dan Orlovski can talk about his food

(06:12):
and what he likes to eat and all that. It's
amazing how much that has changed, hasn't it, even in
just the last few years.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
I think, Yeah, the sort of nature of the shows
is constantly changing, right, and the kind of platforms that
they're built for and audiences that they're catering to. I
actually think NFL lives a bit of a throwback though
in some ways, like we do a lot of you know,
we do like to share our personalities and lean into

(06:41):
our relationships, especially because we've been blessed to work together
for so long. But I think that the reason we're
able to do that is because it is such a
hardcore football show. Yeah, I think like sometimes maybe you know,
when I see folks talking about ESPN and sports television,
I almost feel like they're kind of leaving that out
a bit because if you watch NFL Live, I know

(07:02):
you've watched our show. It is really freaking nerdy like
we are. It is football into the teaching and the
how and the why. And I think it's why the
show personally. Selfishly, and I know I sound a little
self agridizing here, but I think it's why the show
works is that we really respect our viewers and don't
talk down to them.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
It's kind of funny, you know, I'm starting this podcast
for the NFL, and I've been listening to all the
NFL podcasts to try to get ready, and I've noticed
the NFL it feels like much more so than college
sports podcast than NBA podcast. It does seem to cater
to the serious a little bit more. It feels like

(07:40):
for whatever reason, which is good because I can't do that,
so I can hopefully find my own niche. But what
it does feel like that NFL fans want that in
a way that maybe fans of other sports don't as much.
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (07:55):
II? One hundred percent agree. NFL fans are scary smart now,
I think really are. I mean not just about x'es
and o's and stats, but like cap, I mean NFL fans.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I'm talking about, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Like restructuring and what it means. It's honestly kind of remarkable.
And I think because of that, the discourse in podcast shows,
et cetera has to be pretty sophisticated, honestly. And that
doesn't mean every podcast has to be you know, super
grinding matchups and getting into advanced stats and that kind

(08:29):
of thing in tendencies, but I think that there's it's
been proven that there's a huge audience for that with
NFL fans. It's such a complicated, beautiful sport, and I think,
you know, there's so many different ways to talk about it,
but I think that high level of discourse you're talking
about that really serious, Like let's talk about matchups things.

(08:49):
It does feel pretty unique to the NFL.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
It really does, all right, So let's talk a lot
about the NFL. We are three or four weeks away
from starting the season, and I guess for someone who
now hosts two NFL shows, I still treat it in
some ways, in my mind, the exact opposite of the
way you do, So I like look at it kind
of more broad And I don't know that any NFL

(09:12):
discussion really in today's world starts with anyone other than
the Chiefs, even though they did not win, because I
would argue that, yeah, the Cowboys are maybe the marquee franchise,
but it is still a league where Mahomes and Kelsey
and the Chiefs are, in my opinion, a primary story
and are the one thing that year in and year

(09:33):
out everybody knows will be good. I think they're going
to be better this year than they were last year,
even if their record is worse, do you agree, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, so the record part is huge because the Chiefs
won fifteen games, I believe.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
And all all one score like ten of them.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah. Right, So, like I always look when I look
for signs of regression record wise, not in terms of
the quality the team. Necessarily you do look at point differential,
and they had the point differential of like a ten
win team. They got incredibly lucky, And you can say, well,
if you're coach by Andy Reid and you have one
of the best quarterbacks in the history of sport, luck
doesn't really matter as much because you are able to

(10:15):
win on those margins. I think that's true, But it
is entirely possible that, like you said, this is a
better team with the worse record. I think it's likely
friendly for me. That starts with the offense. You know,
the Chiefs offense has just been kind of a bummer
the last two years. There's still what's hilarious is there's
still a top ten offense in most metrics, and they're

(10:36):
able to grind out these long, excruciating drives with like
six yard completions Patrick Mahomes with like the lowest average
death of target of his career. Kind of a boring
but moderately efficient run game, but the explosivity is gone,
both in the run and the pass, especially the run frankly,
the zero explosive runs. I think getting where she rice
back will be huge. He's got a suspension looming. We'll

(10:59):
see how that comes down. But I think people have
forgotten how good he was the second half. It was
the rookie season and then the beginning of this last
one before he got hurt. And to me, he was
just such a missing piece in this offense last year,
especially because Patrick Travis Kelse pardon me, I thought was
kind of overused quite frankly, you know, and he obviously
is at the end of his career, but they need

(11:21):
another answer versus his own coverage where she rice, to
me is that guy. So I am actually very optimistic
about the offense.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Do you for somebody who who is in the weeds
as much? You also, though, like appreciate celeb don't you do?
Like a podcast that's about Love Island or something that TV.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
It's called a viewer discretion. We talk about TV shows.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Okay, what what what? By the way, digression, I'm watching
The Gilded Age. Have you been well?

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Gotta love The Guilded Age?

Speaker 1 (11:47):
No, you don't. I love it, So I don't know
anybody else that watches it. You like the Gilded Age?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
You know what's so funny about that show? It's extreme
regression here. I can't. I thought wouldn't able to get
my husband to watch it. For those who don't know,
it's like downt n Abvie in America. Basically, he thinks
Christine Baranski's character on The Gilded Age is like the
funniest person on telephone.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
That's Agnes, right, Oh, she's the best. She's so mean
but has a little bit of a heart, and it
kind of like I like.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I like that a lot, noted Bill's fan by the way,
Christine Briansky, Oh is that right?

Speaker 1 (12:20):
I didn't know that? And then I don't know what
it says about me. Now granted I'm only through season one,
so I mean, you've you're probably head of I really
have a big crush on Bertha, and I think I
don't know what that says about my personality, but I
just do and I and then I think Marion is
kind of a dud as a character, so I like her.

(12:41):
I wish she wasn't in it, But like everyone else,
I find awesome and all this. It seems like I
like it so much because it's so much about things
that are so unimportant that it makes it interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Oh, there'll be an entire episode where the central drama
is that somebody prepared to suit the big dinner exactly.
So stupid, but I love it. I will say, you're
a ways behind. Season three is the best one yet.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
I've heard that. I've heard that. I mean, I've heard
it maybe expands, it becomes a little more like about
things because industry and Yeah, and they actually teach you history,
Like I learned that the Statue of Liberty the torch
set in New York for seven years before they could
get the fire. The rest of it, Like, there's a lot,

(13:25):
a lot you learned. How did I get off on that?
I'm not sure, but oh, you do the TV thing.
Travis Kelcey and Patrick Mahomes. Are they the two most
famous people in the NFL right now?

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (13:41):
And they're in Kansas City. That's so weird if you
think about it.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Travis Kelcey is probably more famous than Patrick Mahomes. You're
averaging all women and casual NFL fans, which is crazy.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
It is crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Fans aren't a part of me. Aren't like that famous
in because you know the helmets you're exactly.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
It's fascinating how popular the sport is. Yeah, firsus. If
you were to list the fifty most famous athletes in America,
how few would be NFL players. Probably?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah. I was at speaking of NFL players in the
news a lot. I was at the airport ahead of
the Super Bowl waiting for my luggage in New Orleans
this year standing next to Michael Parsons and nobody came
up to him. He wasn't He was just rice three clothes,
Michael Parsons. It's like one of the three best dressers
in the in football, and he was not approached.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
It was crazy that that is fascinating but doesn't doesn't
shock me. Do you do you think it was ultimately Well,
you're around players more than I am one of the players.
Think about the whole way. For a couple of years,
the Taylor Swift thing became part of it. I think
it was good for the league. Has to be good
for the league. Do players sort of roll their eyes

(14:54):
at it or they think it's kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
I think they get it. They they understand growing league
is important. They have women in their lives who love
Father Swift, who are kind of invested in that. You know,
players are smart about the business of the NFL. And
one hundred percent I think it's good for the league too.
No doubt.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Andy Reid has obviously had so much success over his career,
But if you just look at him stereotypically, like you
just look at his mustache and you look at him,
and you wouldn't think that that offensive mind is there,
that it is what makes him so good that he
can have had two kind of amazing runs in two
different places and bring these offense. What is it that

(15:36):
puts him or even like a Kyle Shanahan so much
far ahead of everybody else?

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Uh, both extraordinarily creative, I would say that. And they're
both constantly iterating like the both of these offenses which
are very very different, like really different, but they're both
growing in response to trends in the league and and
also in response to the players at their disposal. Kyle

(16:03):
Shanahan has evolved his run game so much. You know,
beginning with the Niners, it was just this outside zone
under center runching attack that was we associated with the
Shanahan tree, and then they would add new layers. It
became more downhill, more gap based. The addition to Christian
McCaffrey unlocked a lot in terms of what they were
doing with their twenty one personnel packages that he was

(16:24):
just never doing before. His ability to create run pass
conflict and just constantly put linebackers in hell, I think
is really unmatched still. And then with Andy, you know,
it's easy to point to him and say, well, you
have like arguably the most talented quarterback to ever play
the position. But I'll tell you why he doesn't have
the most talented group of skilled players and hasn't.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
A few years. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, And you know, Travis Kelsey obviously when he was
at his peak, unbelievable ancer, particularly against zone from a
homes Tyreek Hillen made life easier. But Andy's constantly had
to evolve too. I mean, the thing is that they
do with For example, the Chiefs drafted first round draft
pick Savior Worthy last year and he was the guy
who ran like a four to two something in the combine,

(17:08):
So everyone was thinking he's just going to be downfield,
and you know, it came I think apparent kind of
early in the season. He wasn't quite ready for that role,
both in terms of getting off line of scrimmage, winning downfield,
tracking the ball, et cetera. So Andy iterated like during
the season he started using him in different ways. He
started manufacturing touches for him, got involved in the screen game,
got involved in man coverage, beaters, found ways to get

(17:30):
him open using bunches and the like. He's just always
done that. He's just, you know, he's obviously you know,
he's an older coach now compared to rest in the NFL,
but he there's nothing old or archaic or set in
his ways about the way he approaches offense.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I'm sorry, I got just I get a little distracted
looking behind you at your bookcase because I'm a nerdy
reader and I see two books that I love right
behind your head. First of all, Martyr, which I think
is great. Have you assumed you've read it? Right?

Speaker 2 (17:58):
I have?

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah? Did you like it?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
The writer is a friend of mine, soone a little biased.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
The writer is a friend of yours.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, isn't it beautiful?

Speaker 1 (18:06):
I think it's amazing. I think it's sports.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
By the way, who said.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, I it's one of the best, Like it was
a book that I just bought it because it was
on the New York Times ten Best of the so
I bought, I buy all those and it was by far.
I mean, I had read James, so I really liked that,
but it was by far my favorite of the others.
And I knew nothing about it until I saw that.
So it's crazy, you know. And then use that my

(18:31):
brilliant friend behind you as well.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, that is I just skilded agent my brilliant friend.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
I just read my brilliant I just don't say that.
People in Kentucky would say you're right about that, but
I uh, I love my brilliant friend. I'm going to
have you read the other three. Are they good?

Speaker 2 (18:49):
I have you know what's crazy? My son? I have
a two year old now just changed since we last talk.
His name is Nino really named after the character in
the book. For those who have read the book, the
character there's a character name you know, is one of
the characters who's just like an f boy basically, Yeah,
I'm and I'm like, I got the idea for the name,
but he's not named after the character.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, And well you also have Liars poker, so you
have some you have some masculine books there behind you
as well. I'll stop looking at your at your books
there and then go x Man. Yeah, I'm not a
superhero guy, you know. Clayton and Crum was founded on
a simple idea, all leather goods should last a lifetime.
They make everything from bags, belts, wallets, and much more.

(19:33):
And the best part, they're doing it right here in Kentucky.
You can check them out Clayton Andcreme dot com. That's
c r u me dot com. Or you can visit
their flagship retail store in Louisville at two sixteen South
Shelby Street. That's in New lou It's Clayton and Kreme
quality leather goods, built to last. But Lamar all right,
so we're in Kentucky. Even though it's Louisville. People here

(19:56):
follow Lamar Jackson a lot. There's a whole generation of
Kentucky AND's were Louisville fans or excuse me, who are
Baltimore fans because of Lamar. I remember when he was
in college, Mark stoops to coach at Kentucky who had
coached Miami during the Glory Days and Florida State during
their glory days said to me during his junior year
at college, Lamar Jackson's the best player I've ever seen

(20:18):
at any position, even though it's Louisville. I don't care,
and I, trying to be the Kentucky guy, was like, oh,
come on, well, he was right. I mean, he certainly
was right in college. In college, he I've never seen
anyone like him. Then he comes to pros. Danie Rolovsky
and I used to fight because Dan said there's no
way he'll be good in the pros. I took up

(20:39):
for the Louisville guy. I was right. Don't let Dan
get around you. He didn't think Dan he didn't think
Lamar or Josh Allen would be good. We would fight
on our pregame show about both of those. If he's
ones to admit it, but he.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Really sent me those Lamar takes so that I can
hunt Dan with.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
I didn't know that both of them.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
I was wrong about Allan, though I will say I
was with him one.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Allan worry well he was. He did not think Lamar
would be good. I find him to be the most
fun player to watch in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Do you agree, Yeah, I think that's fair. Allan's close.
Those two are just I just how blessed are we to.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Watch these two?

Speaker 2 (21:20):
I know it's funny. The MVP debate got like so
toxic last year, which is a shame because it's such
a goal. Like I feel like these young quarterbacks are
just unbelievable, and those two, you know, they have some similarities,
I think in the way they impact defenses and style
of play and all of that. But Lamar like to me,
so I I was wrong about Alan, but I was

(21:41):
right about Lamar. I did a piece out of the
draft I actually co wrote with my buddy Dominque Foxworth
Wife Podcasting, and the head line of the piece was
Lamar Jackson could change the NFL if the NFL right
by him. Basically, Yeah, that was our because we were

(22:01):
both like blown away by his tape. We both felt
it had been like misrepresented. People didn't even like, you know,
watching Patrina's offense. And but at that point, you know,
like the NFL had a very different attitude towards dual
threat quarterbacks just like eight years ago, and it's changed
so now it's like, if you're not dual threat, the
NFL is, like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Aren't the two of them though, probably why that's changed.
And they're both dual threats in different ways, right, they
have a completely different way of doing it.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Josh Allen's going to bulldoze you. Lamar Jackson's just the most.
His ability to avoid contact not gonna what always is
just I've never seen anything like it in my life.
But he was I think lucky in some ways to
land with a very good franchise, one where they were
very smart and how they approached the offense and then
how they they John Harbaugh, to his credit credit, continued

(22:53):
to grow that offense when it reached a limit with
the preer prior offensive coordinator Greg Roman, and he's just
been He's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
I think like.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
People don't appreciate what he did last Like I know
that he was for CMOL Pro, but he came close
to breaking the NFL's passery.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
I know that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Passer rating does not account Like that's just I don't
even I don't use passer rating because I prefer KVR
because it casts for opponent and rushing. He's so accurate,
yes now and confident through.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
It, and he wasn't Louisville too, And it was interesting
when he came in the draft because I watched him
play all the time. Louisville was very good. I want
him him to lose every game, so I watched every
game hoping he would lose and he would break your
heart in so many different ways. And I felt like
when I was listening to the draft process, when I
was listening to NBA or NFL people talk about him,

(23:44):
I'm like, did you watch the same player? It was
like they were talking about the stereotype of what a
mobile you know, to be real African American, because that's
the way they would talk about him quarterback, But it
was like they hadn't seen him play. It's like have
you seen him play? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Her style, Like the way people talked about the offense,
I was convinced that they didn't actually watch what he did.
Because he's always been smart. He's always been really good
at riding the field. I think the thing that just
has improved is accuracy. I think he has definitely gotten
more accurate, as so as Josh Allen. By the way,
both of them right and yeah, It's been remarkable to
watch their trajectory because I think sometimes when think about

(24:24):
NFL quarterbacks, we think, Okay, you come in, you're accurate,
you're not accurate, you stay that way, and both of
them are proof that you can just get better as
a quarterback.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, just go on.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
I mean what they're doing right now, those two guys,
it's unbelievable how good they've become. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
I felt like he had to deal, specifically Lamar with some,
to be quite frank with you, slightly old racist stereotypes
of what a black quarterback was. And I thought that
was and and he he has helped. I think those
are gone now, and I think and I think he has.
He has been a huge part of that. And Josh Allen.
I would watch Light at night on CBS Sports Network

(25:04):
and They're ugly, wooming uniforms, and I'd be like, who's
this guy? And now is he destined to be cursed?
Or is this do they finally get over the humpet
feels like this is the year if they're going to
do it right.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Either of those two teams, those I think those are
the two best teams in the AFC, just outside the
egels in the NFL and actually the crazy stats. So
I like to use FT and Fantasy formerly Football Outsiders
has this DVOA stat which basically, you know, looks at
total efficiency and opponent. It's smart football fans if you
want to know how good a team is an offensive defense,

(25:43):
and according to their metrics, the stretch that the Bills
and the Ravens have had over the last three or
four years with Alan Lamar are both the best individual
stretches by any teams that have not made it to
the Super Bowl. They just are to be playing in
the Patrick Bohms era of football. They're so I mean,

(26:04):
both of those teams I think are more complete than
the Chiefs. The Ravens in particular, the defense is really good.
I thought they were the two best teams, but it just.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Sometimes it happens Mark Andrews catches that it's a completely different,
a completely different situation. So I'm a Bears fan. Caleb Williams.
I was very excited when he got picked. I enjoyed
watching him last year. I actually think the criticisms of
him to be quite frank you with. I also think

(26:33):
people didn't necessarily watch the games. I mean, his stats
are not very much different than Drake Mays and bow Nix's,
but people talk about him a different way. They lost
a ton of one score games. I feel like, now
you have Ben Johnson, you improved the offensive line. Do
we see a big leap from him this year?

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I think so, But I do urge folks to have
a little patience. You know, this is a whole new offense,
new coach, like the pieces of the offense, new interior offensive.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Is it very different? You know more about it than
I do? Is it?

Speaker 2 (27:10):
I think there's gonna be some similarity giants, right, But
you know, the Lions offense was so specific Jared Guff
under center, play action, throwing over the middle of the field.
He was like a machine. That's an offense that was
built around his skill set. Caleb is a slightly different quarterback.
I think he can do that, you know. I think
he's a good play action quarterback. I think he can

(27:30):
play under center. I think he's accurate. But Ben is
gonna have to evolve his offense not just around Caleb,
but like the play None of those receivers are like
I'm gonn Ros Saint Brown. They're good receivers. I really
like Rama dun Say. I really think he can be
better this year. But you know, they're gonna be used
him in a slightly different way. The run game is
not as good, you know. The offensive line I think

(27:51):
should be a lot better. It just might take a
second for all these pieces to come together. Some of
my optimism with the Bears, actually it's not about the offense.
I think the defense is gonna show some significant improvement
this year. One of my favorite kind of under the
radar hires of the offseason was Dennis Allen coming in
as a defensive coordinator. That man struggled as a head coach,
but let me tell you, he can coach defense. And

(28:12):
I think his style of defense, which is more aggressive,
more main coverage, is a good fit for the Bears defense,
which does have really good players. So I wouldn't be
surprised if, even if the offense takes a little bit,
you do see some improvement in the defense early on.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
I got to be one of the few people who
would have you on and ask a question about Jacksonville early.
But in Kentucky we follow it a little bit, hey,
because Josh Haines Allen like could run for could run
for governor Kentucky. People like him so much. But also
Liam Cohen is someone that everyone at Kentuck. He coached
here twice over the course of three years. Sorry and

(28:50):
is odd. He was odd when he was here.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
He was odd, elaborate. I want to hear your take
on well, okay.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
So he's like a nerdy savant who wants to be cool,
but unlike Mike McDaniel, who thinks he's cool, Liam knows
he's not. So he's trying really hard and self aware.
He is self aware, I would agree, but he also
is like really smart, which is why I liked him
a lot. He was here, Kentucky was really good. He

(29:22):
goes to the Rams, they have a terrible offense, then
he comes back and they're good again. So we saw
literally what he'd do and what would happen when he left.
He's now known to most NFL people as Duval, Like
that's what they know him as. What do you think
he's gonna be as a head coach? I feel like
he's improved everywhere he's been the Rams, Tampa Bay and

(29:44):
then both times at Kentucky. Do you think it works
as a head coach?

Speaker 2 (29:47):
I do. First of all, the Duval thing, it's not
the way that the voice, it was the head motion
that really look.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
No epitomize that one word epitomizes who he is. Like,
that's if you what you if you only saw that
and you were thinking, who is this guy? Mean that
that's what he is?

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Fair Enough, I will say this, I have learned to
not judge head coaches by first impressions. Right, There's just
been so many examples of Stan Campbell in Detroit, Nick
Sirianni in Philadelphia. I would say Jonathan Gannon in Arizona.
I think he has done a really good job there.
He had kind of unusual introduction to the world coaching

(30:31):
personalities to like what works and what doesn't. It is
all over the map in the NFL. I'm optimistic about
that higher because I thought the Bucks offense was one
of the most interesting and cleverly designed units in all football.
Last year. He was and you know, they lost players

(30:52):
along the way, and obviously Chris Godwin early on was big,
but I thought he was fantastic at changing the run
game as the season went on. Screen game was exceptional.
The way he sequenced plays, the run pass, all of
it was really effective. And he also got really great
play out of the young quarterback. And that's kind of

(31:12):
what he's been tesked with right is improving Trevor Lawrence's performance.
If Travis Hunter is the best receiver in this draft,
as you know, I think obviously he was drafted that way.
The combination of him Brian Tom Shooter is insane. Like
this could be a really a little worried about the
offensive line, but I think you could see a really

(31:33):
significant leap from this Jags offense. Jags defense, I don't
know so much. That's a that's a tough group, but
the offense I think could take a leap.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
I you know, I mean, we don't produce a lot
of NFL quarterbacks at Kentucky, and both people that he
touched at least made the NFL. Will Levis, who knows
what his future will be. Devin Leary, he's the backup
in Baltimore, what a third string in Baltimore, and he
like he he guys were better when he was the

(32:02):
offensive coordinator. So it's not popular to like him now
because he left both times in sort of shady manner,
and then he did the same thing in Tampa Bay
as well. But I just feel like he's gonna be good.
I guess we'll have to find out. Mike McDaniel. I
call him Captain Nerd on ESPN because of his socks

(32:23):
and his shoes and all that. But also I'm surprised
that they struggled last year. He seems like he'd really
be really smart. I feel like he's kind of on
the hot seat, do.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
You quietly even though you just got extended, because I
think with the Dolphins, like you could say, well, you know,
you lost tool for a lot of the season, you
had injuries. How much can you really blame him? And
I think there's some rascy to that, but I think
because they keep losing in the same way, yeah, and

(32:56):
they're not And I personally think it's more about the
GM frankly than the than the head coach. There you
get to counter like some fatigue where people pants are
like we know how this movie's gonna end, right, and
we're not gonna be to run the ball at the
end of the season and protict the quarterback and is
he going to make plays in January? So I think
for him, if he doesn't show some sort of growth,

(33:19):
if the offense doesn't show some sort of growth, pardon me,
particularly in the run game, which was really bad last year,
I do think he could be a sneaky hot seat
guy defense. Also a lot of holes in that secondary.
Not super optimistic about that group, which is crazy because
we're not that long ago. You know the Denver game
where they beat them by you know, zillion points. That

(33:40):
was not that one. We're on TV saying they're changing
the NFL. This is crazy, and it just goes to
show you how hard it is to have sustained success.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
When Tua gets hit, is there a part of like,
are you still to the point where you sort of cringe?
I mean I do, and I know it's him. Yeah,
I'm for him, That's what I mean. Like, is there
still a part of you that says, hey man, because
I I mean, ultimately it's his choice what to do,
But I still find myself like his hits hurt me

(34:10):
more than anybody else's in some ways.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, it's hard to watch. I mean, when he went
out for the season, per part of the season, I
think the next day NFL Live, a lot of the
players I work with were kind of shaky about whether
they wanted to continue watching him play football. And obviously
it's his choice, and that's you know, that's not something
I think we heard from players that often in the past.
I think even an NFL I think it was it

(34:35):
was it was what's his name was coaching the Raiders
last year before Antonio Pears came out and said, like,
you should probably retire. Yeah, that's so unusual.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
To hear person for NFL guys to say about.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
But it's real. I think there's a lot of that feeling.
And you know, people forget until he gets hit again
and then it'll come back, come back again.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Uh yeah, I don't know if you're going to like that.
I say so, you don't have to agree. But I
find Aaron Rodgers to be the least. He is my
least favorite athlete maybe ever. I mean I didn't ever.
I can't think of one I like less, because I mean,
I'm sure there are obviously people who've committed like crimes
and things, but to put those away, okay, put that,

(35:18):
But if you're just talking about who I find annoying,
he has to be number one. And a big part
of it is his whole post COVID in you know,
ayahuasca enlightened phase. But but you know, ultimately America forgives
people if they're good. So is he good?

Speaker 2 (35:38):
It one good last year. Yeah, and he's on the
wrong side of forty, so the odds are against it
and wasn't good last year is a little bit of
an oversimplification, but you know the way I would describe,
because I get asked about him a while, like can
you still play right? Yes, but not in the same way?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yes, but no no, yeah, right?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
He look if he was in an incredible if he
was in the Vikings, there was like whispers about that,
I'd be pretty optimistic about that offense. He still has
arm strength, as he hasn't lost it. What is gone
is the playmaking ability, which was a big part of
his game, right, that ability to him he made all
these crazy off platform throws from muddy pockets or the escapes.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
He was smart, he could make a decision that nobody
else could see.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
And super super smart and the vision was unbelievable. His
ability to manipulate safeties and all great. But I think
as you've seen some of those things degrade over the years,
the margins just get smaller and smaller. I thought with
the Jets, saw the highlight reel throws every now and then,
but you also saw a lot of him just kind
of not wanting to play instructure of the offense because

(36:49):
he didn't want to get hit or whatnot. And so
when I look to the Steelers now it's an offensive
line and transition, you really only have one DK Metcalf's
your wide receiver one. It's kind of an unusual pairing
in some ways. So, you know, I think they could
be fine. I think offensively they could tread water. But
I'm not I don't you know, he's not a top

(37:09):
ten quarterback anymore, and I think anyone's expecting that as probably.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
I think people overlook the guy who's thirty eight and
older and doesn't want to get hit. Factor. Don't you
think that's a big thing for It was like that
for Tom Brady, even as good as he was. That
like they just don't want to get hit, which I
get it. I'm in my forties. I don't want to
get hit, but like they're still playing, I get Do
you do you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, I mean there are young guys who don't want
to get hit too, But.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, it is a big that's true.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's a big thing with the older quarterbacks for sure.
Like you know, I talked about Jared Goff, who's pocket quarterback, right,
Jared Goff's giving basically nothing in terms of mobility, but
that dude will stand in there.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
And take a hit, Yeah he will.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
It allows that offense to be very explosive, and when
you are a pocket quarterback and you don't want to
absorb that kind of contact anymore and you're speeding up
your throws, it just kind of of limits the offense
in ways that are different from earlier in your career.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I think I think most people would agree the top
four quarterbacks are in some order, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow.
I think most people agree with that, So I assume
you agree with that too. So who's number five?

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I think it's Herbert Herbert. You know, I think Jaded
Daniels had a fantastic rookie season, but we gotta you know,
breaks a little bit. Let's see, we.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Could have said that about c. J. Stroud the year before, right.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
You also, you know, like you saw wow, terrible offensive line.
You see the way that impacts the quarterback. You could
never underestimate how much contact matters for a quarterbacking situation.
But yeah, I think Herbert to me, just you know,
over the course of now several seasons, you see the

(38:54):
top end arm talent, accuracy, good decision making, and I
know people hate it when you bring this up with
Herbert without much help. You know, the offensive line has
been pretty bad at times. Run game was sucked last year.
Not a good group of receivers. Lad Baconkey was his
number one, so I think you do have to take

(39:14):
that to account when you watch him.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
I always joke that I've never met a Chargers fan,
so because I just I think it's the most obscure
in terms of fan base, because because they I did
used to see them when they were in San Diego,
but they're not anymore. What do you think in terms
of Mina Kaimes walks through airports? What fan base do
you see the least?

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Ooh, the least?

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Okay, because anybody could say Cowboys, Steelers, whatever for the most, but.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Who's the least.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Who's the most obscure of the fan bases.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
I don't see a lot of Bucks fans.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I have a Bucks fan as my producer right now.
He threw his hands up in the air.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
But yes, okay, I like Bucks fans, and they're really
appreciated when you talk about it. So I like all
market fan bases because when you talk about.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
This, get excited, we're here.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Thank you, praise our guy Bucks. I don't see a
ton of Jags. Weirdly I do. They're vocal, but well.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Because there's a big area. Like the thing about sometimes
the fan bases, you have to think not just about
the city, but the area in Jacksonville gets that whole
panhandle and they get there, you know, the they get
parts of Alabama and you know, so like you, sometimes
you have to look at it like Cincinnati Bengals. Cincinnati
is not a huge state, but they get most of
Kentucky and they get most of southern Ohio.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
So I'd see a lot of angles fans. I would
say the third one would be maybe Cardinals. Cardinals.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
You never see a Cardinals in my life.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, outside Arizona.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Why why would you?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
You know?

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let me I'm gonna move off the NFL a little
Mina Kimes talk before we get done. You do a

(41:51):
TV podcast. What's the name on it.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
It's called Viewer Discretion. So we're doing the season of
Perfect Matches, a reality show next week, but then after
that we're going to start the new Alien show, which
I'm really excited about Alien Perfect Match.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
What is that? Is that? Another little dating show? Okay?
All right, go ahead. So there's that, and then you're
doing an alien show.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Alien, the new Noah Holly show. He did Fargo if
you watched that Fargo, so it's his new show. And
then I think I want to talk about Chief of War,
which is.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
The new it's Jason Momoa, right, Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, it's basically did you watch Showgun? It's like Showgun?

Speaker 1 (42:24):
I love Showgun.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, then you'll love this. You should watch it. There's
only been two episodes.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, there's a one man I know that wants to
see it, because isn't he just like in a little
loincloth most of the time?

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Entire time?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Okay, So I judge people by this, so I'm gonna
judge you by it. Three best Mina Kimes dramas of
all time. Three best comedies of.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
All time TV TV or movies.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
TV not movies, TV, TV's movies. This is the teambody
can do two hours. TV is like a longer period
of time.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Okay TV. I'm going to go with The Leftovers, which
is my favorite show.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
I've never seen that worth it.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Okay, I'm putting it on the list because of you.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
A good show.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
That's the one there's been an apocalypse, and then.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Okay, all right, yeah yeah, or it's not apocalypse, but
like like two percent of the world goes missing.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
That I thought it was apocalypse missing.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
It's very much about It's a show about like grief,
which I realized is not the best advertiser for the show.
But it is beautiful, so good. I love the show.
Halt and catch Fire.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I like that. I saw the first season and then
I haven't seen the rest.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Season two and three are even better. First season. It
gets better and better as it goes on.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
It's like an AMC show, right, wasn't that what that was?

Speaker 2 (43:39):
AMC? Yeah, I don't know where it's available now. And
then best of all time.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Shoot, these are good choices because normally there's like a
group of seven or eight the Wires, Soprano's breaking bad
mad Man. I like that you're giving a couple kind
of off the beaten path a little.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I love Frida an Lights a TV show.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay, that's a great show.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
The rare show that rebooted halfway through and didn't get worse,
which is crazy. Now you're like, well, yeah, it was
Michael B. Jordan, but he wasn't Michael B. Jordan Michael B. Jordan.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
At the time, yeah, I thought at the end it
got a little weird a little bit, but yes, but
I thought, that's that's that's a really good one. Like comedies.
This is actually how I really judge people as comedies.
What do you think is funny?

Speaker 2 (44:30):
East Bound Down?

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Oh? Great?

Speaker 2 (44:32):
My favorite comedy.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
I don't think I would have picked that for you,
but I like it.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Really, Yes, I Danny McBride is like my true North.
Like I feel like if I could hang out with
any person, have the career of any person. I just
think the way that dude, you know, he like lives
in North Carolina and just makesh it with his friends
and it's really funny and good.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
I love that. Steve's On is a Steve's On is
a friend of ours. He lives in Kentucky and he
did rise just gym stones with him and he talked
about how how they like want the scenes in that
abandoned church. He couldn't find the church he wanted, he said,
you know, Danny McBride, and he was driving down the

(45:11):
street in South Carolina and they saw this church on
the side of the road and it was abandoned and
he wanted to film in there, so they just started
and then a guy showed up and said, this is
my church. If you want to film here, you gotta
pay me. And Danny McBride said, okay, how much and
he said five thousand dollars, three thousand dollars whatever. Danny
pays it. The next day a different guy shows up,

(45:34):
the original person he paid and didn't own the church.
He had just come and demanded payment, and he said that.
Danny McBride was like, well that's you know, that's what
I get. All right, what are your other two?

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Okay? A deep cut show I always recommend people. It's
called Patriot. It's on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Heard of.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
It was only two seasons. It's about a depressed spy
and it's funny. It's one of the I think it's
a masterpiece. Okay, very few people have ever seen this show,
but it's like one of those shows where if you
meet someone who's seen it, you have like an instant wow.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Okay, And it's funny. It's a comedy.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
It's a comedy. It's very like Coen Brothers y kind
of vibes if you like Coen Brothers. And then I
feel like I should pick like a. I mean, I
love Veeps, say joke for joke, the funniest show. I
think Deep is one of the funniest show.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I am so glad you said that because my list
always starts with Veep. I think Veep and BoJack Horsemen
are my two favorite, but Veep. No show in history
has had better joke to joke to joke to joke.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
To take any clip from Veep from any season, any episode,
and I'll just lose it if I watch it and
it's entiretly online.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
It's also one of the few shows that, over the
course of it adds characters and it still works when
they add characters.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
You know, all the minor characters like Herd like they're
all so funny.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, oh, I love that, all right, you I don't.
I gotta ask you about this because you know, I
am a political person. I know you're not necessarily, but
you end up getting dragged into things and it annoys
me as someone that likes you, because for a certain
segment of people that want to politicize everything, ESPN, does

(47:28):
you know they've they've had these targets over the years,
and some of their targets are no longer there right,
Jamel Hill Bomani Jones, Pablo tore you still are and
it still happens, and it makes me mad, even though
we're not close friends. I get mad from afar at them,
at them doing it. How do you handle that? Because
Jamel Hill Bomani Jones, especially Will would punch back. Pablo

(47:51):
doesn't as much, although he does a little. You don't.
So how do you deal with that? Does it bother you?

Speaker 2 (48:00):
It bothers me, not to be attacked, but to be misrepresented?

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Do you feel this way too? Like I don't care
if I say something and I'm standing on it. I
don't care if somebody's matter, whether it's a football take
or something about the real world. If I'm quoted accurately
and people are angry about it, godspeed. I only get
upset when I see my words taken out of context
or twisted or things, and then that soho just to

(48:25):
be kind of I guess transparent, That's when I get
upset about it. But I've also learned you can't fight
like misrepresentation on the Internet. It's like impossible. It's like
punching ghosts.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
So but sometimes I feel like they attack you, not
based on anything you said, you're just like it's like
they It's what really annoys me and I is there's
a segment of especially men, white conservative men, who just
see you as an example of a hire that shouldn't
be talking about football. And you know much more about

(48:58):
football than I do, without question. And I could have
your job and they wouldn't say a word to me,
but they'll say it to you, and that annoys me.
Huh No, I wouldn't be done because you know, like
you're talking about you know, but bunch packaging packages and
all this stuff, but you you really know it. That's

(49:19):
got to annoy you because you are overly qualified with knowledge.
Does that annoy you?

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Philosophy, I think now more than ever. I just try
to remember to touch grass if like I honestly should
get that like tattooed on my arm, so I don't
forget it, because whenever I feel that, like the voices
you're describing are overwhelming or whatever, a couple of things.

(49:48):
One they almost never actually consume my work. Yes, it's
so it which is, by the way, I think true
of a lot. It's not just me. You got to
really remember that, right, Like most of the people who
are attacking, especially on an identity basis, don't act actually
listen to you talk about the sport or engage with
it in a meaningful way. And then when I actually
do get to like touch grass and like go to
the combine or I'm out in the field or I'm

(50:08):
at games, not being a football is like that they're
not cool. Oh my god, Coaches, executives, they just want
to talk ball. They're not And I think it's just
such an important reminder that you know, you got this
like loud, disgruntled minority who are just kind of looking
for something to be mad at of somebody who represents something.
But the more attention you give them, I think one

(50:32):
it feeds it a little bit, but it also is
just a waste of time, frankly, because they're not representative
at all of like the people matter.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
You don't respond a lot, but when you do, you
have some clapbacks that I love, and I do. I
consume very little media that's not I don't know if
you're like this. I have a hard time consuming people
that do what I do. I just don't. I guess
maybe just because I do it so I don't so
I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. The point okay,

(51:00):
but I've always listened to Simmons in Rousillo and Rousillo
get made that comment about something when they hired and
they and he made you as the joke. I don't
remember what it was, something about inside the NBA and
he was like mina coms or something, and I was
really can't I don't know why I get so defensive.
I was really upset at him. I was like, Rousillo,

(51:21):
You're better than that dude. Plus, aren't you all friends?
And then you responded with something like you just did
it for taxes or whatever. His famous line was during
the protest.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Uh you?

Speaker 1 (51:35):
That was a deep cut And I like him.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
I like that podcast too.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
You're Surprised said, literally.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
My favorite podcast. I think I've said this before. When
he does his travel podcasts. I think their art.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
They are when they went goes to New Zealand or whatever.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeahally the most like, strangest, most interesting.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I agree totally. But were you, like, were you bummed
by that? Because I know you like him and you
are friendly and he used you as the punchline of
the joke in a way that I thought was kind
of crappy. You did have an awesome comeback.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Though my feeling is just if somebody makes a joke
about me, I'm going to make a joke back love them.
So that's right. I get that a lot though, that
that sort of joke set up and punch line. Like
anytime something at ESPN happens, like something gets fired or
we buy something or whatever. You know, the kind of
portion of the Internet you're talking about does what he did,

(52:29):
which is they say ooh, now red Zone is gonna
be host by many times or meaning they're going to
force The joke is that it's ESPN is forcing non
white women mostly onto programming, and that that's the joke
that I mean, I see it all the time constantly.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
And I expect it from idiots, but I just didn't
expect it from him, and I think that was what well.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
I text about that. Yeah, I think a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
I think a lot of people will because if you've
listened to him over there, I mean I listened to
him going back to Van Pelt, I was just I
wasn't mad. I was just disappointed that that was.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I haven't heard from him on it, but like I said,
I just feel like, Okay, I'm gonna make a joke back,
all right.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Well, last thing, Dan dan Orlovsky went my very first
day at ESPN Radio. You know, I'd waited like my
whole life to get that opportunity. Back then, they would
fly me to ESPN every Sunday morning to do a
radio show, which.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Is kind of I remember this.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
It's kind of bizarre that they did that back then,
but they would, and Dan would drive up from Philadelphia,
and so it would be me, Dan and Myern metcalf
and the first day I walked in. The first day
I walked in, I had never been on ESPN, Dan
had never been on radio, really, and Myron had never
done in the NFL. So we were all kind of terrified.

(53:47):
I knew nothing about the NFL. I didn't even watch
the NFL when they hired me to do this, as
crazy as this sounds, So we come in and I'm like,
I have notes on every NFL team because I didn't
know anything good for you. And Dan is sitting in
a dark booth in the ESPN Radio section by himself.

(54:09):
I'm not going to say he was shaking, but he
was kind of shaking. He was terrified, and he and
I had never met each other. So I knock on
the door and I walk in and he is clearly nervous.
I am terrified. And I look at him and I'm like, hey, man,
we meet, And then I go, are you nervous? And

(54:31):
he was like yes, because it was his first thing
for ESPN too, he'd never done anything for ESPN. And
I said, well, I am too, and he goes, why
are you nervous? And I said, I really don't know
anything about football, and he goes, well, I don't really
know anything about radio. And I said, all right, I
got the radio, you got the football. Let's go. And

(54:54):
we did and we had a blast. We got better
as the year went on. Of course, you knew within
a few weeks he was on a rocket ship. You
could just tell. You could just see like this was
what was going to be. But I will no matter
how big he gets. When he resigned his contract, I
texted him, I'll remember walking into that little closet studio

(55:16):
I love it and seeing him nervous and me being
the same way and being like, so, I'm always so
proud of him, and I hope I know, you know,
he's as nice a guy as he seems.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
I mean, he is literally like a brother to me
at this point. And I think what I people don't
know about our show is Dan was the only person
I was really friends with before I started doing NFL Live.
When they rebooted it in twenty twenty with myself, Laura, Marcus,
and Ryan and Dan, you know, it was kind of
an experiment. They were like, let's just throw these people together.

(55:49):
And Laura and Ryan or Laura and Marcus, part of
me had done a lot of sec stuff together. Of course,
Dan and I were just in football nerd friends. I
had had him. I don't even know how we met,
but like we just kind of connected on some real
nerd shit and then we're just kind of texting. I
had my podcast, he was not. He was doing some
of the morning shows and stuff. I was doing my

(56:10):
thing around the Horn and whatnot. But we had not
worked together. But like that kind of nerd friendship foundation
of just loving geeking out about football and getting so
psyched about the just the dorky oft shit, that's really
what the show was built on in a lot of it.
From my perspective, that relationship, and so yeah, I'm so
grateful to work with him. He challenges me so much

(56:33):
to like challenges all of us, I think, because he's
constantly pushing himself to be better and he worked so hard.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
As you know, yes he did. So he would sit there.
You know, they have that room where Buddy watches the
games right in Bristol, and we would leave our show
and go sit in that room. And here was one
of the things that was great. It was me and
him and Myron. Myron and I knew no one in
that room, like it's all.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
The football people.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
It's like he could have he knew everybody. He could
easily have left to us to sit with all of
his football friends because there was all the Randy Mosses
High School cafeteria. Yeah really, he literally and he would do.
He would say hi all of them, but he would
sit with me and Myra and he would make like
Myron and I not feel like we were completely by

(57:16):
ourselves in this. And I just love the guy, and
I you.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Know, I love that story. Thank you for telling me
about that's so cute to think back and yeah, about
how far he's come.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
I'm really I'm proud of it, and I'm proud of
you even and I wish you the best. Thank you
very much for taking the time to do this.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Mita, this was fun. I'd love to do it again
during the season. Now that you're an NFL guy.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Well barely during the off season, I'm gonna make you
do a book one with me. Since it's clear you're
a reader. You would be dude, I would do it. Thanks,
appreciate it.