Episode 23 - Jeff Goodman

Jeff Goodman is a college basketball reporter and the co-founder of The Field of 68. Jeff has covered CBB across various platforms including ESPN, CBS and Stadium.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Interrupted by Matt Jones on news radio.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Wait forty wits, now here's Matt Jones.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
All Right is episode twenty three of Interrupted by Matt Jones,
presented by Cornbrett Hemp. This is the good Life, and
we are now happy to be joined by somebody I
have known for a long time, probably going back now
almost twenty years. He's been everywhere from Fox Sports to
ESPN to now Field of sixty eight probably soon to

(00:31):
be Field of seventy two on and on three Sports.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Jeff Goodman.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Jeff, it's very nice to have you to talk a
little college basketball.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Likewise, Matt, Likewise, it has been too long doing this
together on air. We had a chance to have breakfast
lunch whatever we did last year in Lectionington, which was
long overdue it is.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
And I want to talk to you a little bit
about sort of your history and relationship with UK and
even with yours truly at some point, but let's just.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Start with this.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
I want I want to use this kind of as
a college basketball talk preview for the season.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
And I'll start with this.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I don't know if you agree or not, but I
actually think college basketball is in a really good spot.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I think in.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
While it has had negatives for football especially, I actually
think it's been a net positive for basketball and the
sport is in a much better spot than it was, say,
ten years ago, in terms of fan interest, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, probably fan interest probably yes. I don't know if
it means that the sport is in a better place
than it is now. You know, I think the hard
part for me is still, you know, while kids are
getting paid and for some that it's awesome, you know,
I think you've got these rosters that are that are
turning over at such a rate that, you know, frankly,

(02:01):
the quality of play isn't as good coming out of
the gates. People really don't talk about bad enough, and
then that's true.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
I mean, I've actually what I thought last year, the
quality of play was better than in the one and
done kind of era. That like, having these veteran rosters
may take them longer to get going, but when you
get to January and February you get really good games.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yes, I think it's out of the gates.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Like I said, I think it's just because you have
so many teams with like eight, nine, ten new guys
and some with thirteen new guys, right, and you just
never had that before, you know. I mean Kentucky was
the one team that would turn over the most because
of the one and dones, but everybody else would be
like Purdue this year, right, they bring everybody back for
the most part. Now you know the norm. I mean, really,

(02:48):
if you bring back four your top eight guys, you're
celebrating in the offseason, Like, that's a hell of an
off season. If those are the four, you know you
kind of want it back. But you know, I think
you're right in a sense that number one. You've got
April and May now that are relevant for.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
College basketball for the because of the portal.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Right, they're relevant, yes, you know, because of the off
season where it wasn't. I don't know if I love it,
because I enjoyed my Maize a lot more ten years
ago than I enjoy them now. But I get it,
And again, there's more to talk about, there's more other
issues certainly to talk about. I just I have a
hard time because again, like I'm old school, but I'm

(03:31):
trying to adapt and I do adapt, and I still
see some of these kids going to their fifth school.
We did a media tour. We did fifteen different media.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Days, so we talked to like endless amount of kids
and like some of these kids it's their fifth school
in five years, mat like, how is that good?

Speaker 3 (03:47):
I get all that, and look, if you I'm sure
the job is to some extent harder for coaches. And
I want to talk to you about the transition of
coaches because I think we're seeing a new era of
coaches development. I understand you know, Devin ask you has
been at what six schools? Like, I get all that,
but I guess what I'm saying is maybe it's just

(04:08):
because at Kentucky we were more used to it with
the one and done. But this idea that when the
game start, I know that I'm seeing better basketball, when
I'm seeing juniors and seniors playing, then we all see
than what I was seeing before.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
But I think that's more to Kentucky and maybe Duke
and a few others. I think the majority of the
country has kind of gotten the other route. And they
had retention, and they had a bunch of kids that
they could relate to, and the fan base knew who
these kids were and they could connect to them. And
now by the time they connect to them, they're gone

(04:45):
kind of like you guys, right, that's the way it.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Was, maybe true, but like last year, you get to
the final four, right, and so you get what Duke Houston, Florida,
Auburn and even in the Elite eight with Tennessee and
you know Purdue in Texas Tech and get to Sweet
sixteen with Kentucky, et cetera. I just felt like the
quality of the overall field was just better. Just when

(05:08):
you get to that and I and you know, nin
a lot of guys come back. I mean, you have
your your braid Braiden Smith, you got your your J.
T Top and all these guys. I just don't think
that happens.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
A few years ago, one hundred percent guys were going,
think about it, Guys were leaving even when they weren't
on the draft boards. You were leaving like they were
just leaving to leave. Now it's so rare. You see,
like an RJ. Lewis right, the kid from Saint John's.
He's the one that kind of you look to and
you're like, dude, why why you could have Patino didn't

(05:41):
love him at the end, but put your name in
the portal and you could have made three million dollars
this year, and instead you put your name in, you
weren't drafted, And I think I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
If he got a two way at the end of
the day.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
So I see college basketball going forward as being what
it may bee was with the addition of transfers, which
I know is a whole other thing. But I see
it going back to kind of maybe not the eighties,
but the nineties, where guys are staying in school because
you can make a living doing this. Obviously, your aj

(06:15):
Debond says, are going to go, but oh taga away.
He goes to the draft last year. Whether he should
have or not, he would have like that would have
just been what would have happened.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
I like that.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I like that Jasper Johnson at Kentucky could be a
two year player whereas he would have been a one
year player before. I just think eventually that's positive. And
do you see college basketball kind of playing now? There's
so many Europeans coming the developmental role for the NBA
across the board, maybe even replacing the G League completely.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
That's the part that's interesting, right, the part you just
ended with the international crop, because you know you've seen
such an influx this year like we've never seen before.
Because frankly, you know, if you're a coach right now,
you're saying, if I can go get a twenty two
year old, you know, international kid, even if he's only
eligible for two or three years, you know, that's going

(07:08):
to be more impactful for me than any most of
these college kids and I'm going to bring in at
this point, and they're more coachable for the most part,
and they're less money to bring in.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
So interesting, I don't you know that part is interesting
because where does it end? Matt.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
That's my question to you is, well, me, what you
personally would be for what would you be like? So
I would be okay with NBA teams drafting guys and
rather like this was back in the seventies, like rather
than putting them in the G League they just played
college basketball for a year or two.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Would you be up? Would you?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
I'll be all right with that, Yeah, I just I
think there's got to be some cutoff though, with like
when you're a pro. You know, now we're doing these
G league guys that are you know, maybe some are
going to be eligible. I was told by a source
that multiple teams are going after this one j league
kid who's already played fifteen NBA games, All right, well, and.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Now I don't know if you see that that's different
to me. I almost feel like.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Matt, what about the international guys that made real money overseas?

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, I mean I think what would make sense to
me is there an acknowledgement like once you break the
NBA seal, that's it.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Okay, once you once you've been in an nbaut then
we're out.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
But I'm actually okay with everything else. I don't know
enough about the European League to know whether or not,
like Real Madrid and those teams, how you would compare them.
But I could also be told, okay, if you play
in the top tier Champions League whatever, you're out. But
I'm okay with these other guys because I just think
it makes the sport better.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Maybe the age for me would maybe maybe you know,
maybe there'd have to be an age cutoff for me
with some of these international guys.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
And I don't know, but I think they got.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
To kind of get a grasp one Because I joke
about this, I do joke, but what if Lebron next
year wants to go to Arizona and play with his
youngest son.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
But I mean that would.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Be that would be ridiculous, of course, But but where
does it end, I guess is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Where to have seen? Though, I would like to have
seen a system. Let's use a guy. Let's use Reed
Shepherd as an example. I would like to have seen
a system where the Houston Rockets could have picked him
number three. But if acknowledged, we don't need him this year,
so play for Kentucky for another year rather than bouncing
back and forth from our G League team. Why wouldn't

(09:30):
that be good?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
It'd be awesome and the strategy would be really really
interesting in the NBA. Right, if you're drafting a guy
based on long term potential, you know he's going to
be a stud but he.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Needs another year in college. I think that would be
really cool.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
I also don't mind like in a way, we know
some of these kids make poor decisions, have people around
him that push them to make poor decisions. If you do,
like an R. J. Lewis is a good example, again,
I'd go back to it. He's screwed up. I talked
to his dad before they made the decision, and the
dad was like, hey, we get it, we get we
might be making a poor decision. Well now they've made it,

(10:07):
and I just feel like, I don't know. I mean,
I feel bad for a kid like that. I feel
bad he hasn't played an NBA game.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, but I with R Jay Lewis coming back, I'd
be fine with him coming back. I mean I would
be I'm okay with that. I mean, I don't It
wouldn't bother me.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Let me.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Let me ask you about coaches, because you mentioned you
mentioned Saint John's and that gets to Patino. I talk
a lot of my show about the changing of the
garden coaches, and I'm not the only one kind of
all these old school coaches are gone. Rick's one of
the last ones left. But I am sort of of
the opinion that in the next generation, the skill set
that it's gonna take to be a good, a great

(10:47):
college coach might be different than it was in the
previous generation.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yes, But but again in what sense, Like I think
a great recruiter years ago isn't quite as valuable.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
I totally agree with you, yes, but things like roster management,
like I heard Mark Pope say, and we'll see you know,
how it happens. But Mark Pope was like, I think
this is exciting a time because we don't really know
what's the best way to build a roster, and you
can almost be creative and all this. I think it'll
be fun watching these guys figure it out in real time.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, how about how you build your staff? Right? Like
are you now? Because you have a group for eight months?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
It's like what Cal used to have to do, right,
you better get some guys in that can develop these
guys quickly, get them to play together quickly instead of again,
duplication among the staff, right, like I say it about
Arkansas staff, Now, what is there?

Speaker 1 (11:47):
There's duplication.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
There's duplication, Like for what you've got guys that do
the same thing instead of go get a guy in
there who's maybe you know a former NBA guy. I
know he tried to bring him well Elch a couple
of years ago to Kentucky somebody like that.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Like that's where NATO's is so.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Brilliant, so brilliant, and he kind of he was one
of the first ones to do an offensive coordinator a
defensive coordinator. But he's also gone all in on the
NBA guys why because he understands, like, hey, my strength
isn't that Maybe I'm gonna give a guy the defense
the offense. I'm gonna go get a guy from the
NBA every year and try to be non traditional about this.

(12:29):
I'm not gonna just get three recruiters because frankly made
there are a million against each other, and you have
a million, I have five hundred brand You're gonna get him.
I don't care if you literally you could be my dog.
And if you go with a million dollars and show
up at the doorstep, you're gonna get that kid.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
So we had this weird year this year where you
had the leftovers of a no rules in IL and
now this rev share. So you had this year where
I mean, the kids in college basketball this year got
so lucky they got almost paid twice.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
This was the year.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, so that's not gonna happen next year. So I
guess I just wonder what you think. What do you
hear in the world of college basketball once we get
to this rep share, which in theory is gonna give
basketball programs three and a half to four million dollars?
Do you hear do staffs believe that they're gonna be
able to have this other in aisle money? Do they

(13:26):
think that the enforcement of the rules is gonna like
how are they operating next year?

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Differently?

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Differently, some staffs are saying, Hey, we're gonna we're gonna
go all in.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
We don't give it. We're gonna go.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
All in and do it and worry about the ramifications later, because,
like you said, the average, Yes, I think the average
like SEC team or Big twelve, Big ten team probably
around that three million for REV share. Kentucky's obviously will
be far more than most.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Right.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
I mean, it'll be at a different percentage, we know that,
but most of them will be right three million.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
The Big East is different. We know that. You know.
I talked to a Big East coach the.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Other day and not named Rick Patino or Dan Hurley,
and I said, what's your number going to be?

Speaker 1 (14:11):
And he said, I'm not even worried about it?

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Hy Are we talking like if the SEC is three
or four, is it like ten eight?

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (14:21):
So like on paper, the Big East should just all
of a sudden be great one year at least for
a one year stretch there. Do you really think Greg
Sanki is going to allow this for more than a year. No,
and I don't think I don't think UK's go out.
I mean I don't think.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
They don't have to because they'll have They have Reel
and Il. Kentucky and Duke have reel and Ile. It's
in maybe Kansas. There's a few schools. So the real
explain to people when you say real and io, what you.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Mean, I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
What I mean is like the guys that come in,
they can get actual indoor opportunities through sponsorships and other
things that will be cleared by the NC. Double is
third party. Okay, that's the difference where if you're old
miss and Chris Beard, you're looking at this and saying, like,
what am I gonna do? Because I'm not getting anything

(15:11):
clear down here in Oxford. I'm not getting anything else.
There's nothing else that's gonna be available for me. So
what do I do? If I'm Chris Beard? I can't
win with three million dollars because again, if I'm going
up against George Seaton, Hall is probably gonna have five
or six million dollars seat in Hall.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
I mean, so you think this will be a one
year thing and then they'll change the rules to find
a way to let him do I did.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay, Yeah, I think they're gonna have to.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
I think there's gonna be too much pushback from everybody
not in the Big East. And the other part is like,
think about this, you know, like Rick Patino, they have
twenty point five million at Saint John's right, the Donut Football,
and he's got his boy Ripoli who could literally write
him a check for nineteen million and say I want

(15:59):
this all for men's basketball next year. Nineteen million, go ahead,
And like, nobody can compete. I know, Kentucky's got twenty
two this year.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
You can't compete with nineteen Yeah, no, nobody's gonna be able.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Nobody's gonna compete with that.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
So all right, so going forward, let let's talk about
actual coaches, because there is a change in the guard.
I mean there's the only people laughed are like Rick
Col's hanging on, You got Zoe hanging on, you got
Bill self. But in general, it's a new breed. Who
do you see If last generation was Roy Williams, Mike Krzyzewski,

(16:35):
John cal Perry, whatever, who is the next generation?

Speaker 1 (16:38):
In ten years we'll say these are these guys. I
don't think we're gonna have those guys.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I don't think we're gonna have the guys that that
are lifers like that anymore. I don't think you're gonna
see guys going until to the seventy.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
It's gonna be there's gonna retire young. Who you think
they're just gonna retire young. Yeah, they're making so much money.
Number one, it's gonna wear them out. It's gonna wear
them out like it's never worn them out before. Because
the difference is, Matt when you were done before and
it was still kind of crazy obviously the off season,
but when you were done and you got knocked out

(17:12):
of the tournament, you know, in the past, you weren't
dealing with the constant portal, then having to deal with,
you know again going out in July June. Even you're
working with your players now, which you couldn't do in
the past in the summer. Then you're talking about still
having to do camps.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
It literally is one thing. I don't you don't feel bad.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
It's a regular job, like that's what everybody else has
to do in life.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
But secondly, these dudes.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Do have competitive juices, and then what they gonna do
want to sit at home.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
I mean, I've yet to see coaches.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
How many coaches outside of like Bob Stoops leave voluntarily
and just sit at home. And even Bob Stoops ends
up coaching in the XFL, like they all they.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
All want to. Tony Jay Wright and Tony Bennett went out, okay,
but they're unique. I mean, you know, those are unique guys.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
They're kind of like they're sort of intellectual and maybe
not your.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Normal Brewceprow walked away.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
He walked away because he wants to be a senator
and he wants to be on television.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I mean, that's a different that's a different.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Thing we'll see. I mean, you may, you may very
well be right. Let me ask you about going forward
rules wise. You mentioned your your answer.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Your answer, though I think you were getting that is
like who's the next guys? Like I think NATO, it's
I think NATO. It's probably will be a next guy
like I just again, I you know, I said it
a year at whatever, two years ago when the job
was open, like that would have been my guy at Kentucky.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
And you know they I don't know why they didn't.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
I think there was I don't know what it is,
but there was some issue that made them stay away
from it.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
But I agree with you. To me, he seems like
the most.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
He's a stud and he's young enough, and obviously Dan
Hurley isn't going anywhere.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
I don't get along with Hurley right now. But that's
a common theme with you. Whoever is kind of on
top you don't get along with right Yeah, But this
one is I mean, the last one is legit too
with Calvin.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
This one's different. This one's different because I've actually had
a long relationship with Dan Hurley that dated back to
Saint Benedict's school, so I've gotten along with them for
twenty five So what's.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
This one about. I don't know. I didn't know you.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
I've said over and over that he's a baby when
it comes to treating the refs like you can't treat
a group of people that way.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
That is ridiculous, Matt, Like, if.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
You have it for like one or two refs, I'm fine.
Everybody's got one or two refs that they don't get
along with. They don't like it's every ref and he
treats them like they're dirt, and that's both that's.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
I agree with you on that he's kind of embarrassing
in that regard.

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(20:20):
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all right. So let's talk just a couple like systematic
rules things. Mark Pope's been a big advocate. He thinks
they should play basketball in the summer, whether it's playing
games or whether it's just being able to do like

(20:40):
those summer tours every year. It's clearly these cools need revenue,
so they're gonna add more games. Am I right about that?

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah? At some point? Yeah? Yeah, I mean what are
we talking from thirty one to thirty three, thirty five?
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (20:56):
I'm fine with it as long as there's a plan
in place with it.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
But do you think it'll happen? Do you think it'll happen?

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, but I don't think it will happen next year.
I think we're still years years away from going.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
I think they can add a summer exhibition game.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Now, again, in most places, Matt, nobody's going to care. Yeah,
like most programs, nobody is going to show up for those.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
I'm not even sure they're gonna show up at Kentucky. Yeah,
I think yeah they will. They'll fill it up.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
I mean, if you've seen the TVT games, those are
old guys playing and we fill it up.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
I mean again, I think there's certain programs that can
make this work. But the guy, you know, remember Cal
was started that a few years ago. And I'm like,
right when Cal said it, I'm like, okay, whatever, Cal,
when he's the president of the NBC whatever it was,
whatever he wants, there's a reason for it.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
It's gonna benefit him. No, it's gonna benefit him.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
And adding the games, adding the summer games is only
going to benefit a dozen teams.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
You're probably right, Yeah, you're probably right. I just I
think for those it's good for me. For the win
in July, there's nothing on television.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Nothing.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Why wouldn't ESPN want to put on Kentucky versus Duke
and North Carolina versus It just seemed like that would
make sense.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I'm in listen. It can't hurt. There's the question is
does the NC double A allow it?

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Right?

Speaker 2 (22:19):
That's always the question here is and the rule books
should be shredded and they should start completely over.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Like that's really what they should do right.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Now, is Charlie Baker should instruct, you know, the people
at the high level people of the NC Double A,
let's just start over. Let's start over completely and try
to figure this thing out from the bottom up, rather
than you know, Mark Emmert's archaic rules and try to
figure out which I mean, there's there's still kids that
haven't been cleared yet by the.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Uble A game end of the season. So let's talk.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
About this year in college basketball I mean the teams.
I think most people know the teams that are going
to be good.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
But let's talk. I want to talk about this freshman class.
It's weird.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
I'm talking about a friend and there's really not a
Kentucky guy that's in the top group. You got aj
Debonsa at BYU, Darren Peterson at Kansas UH, Caleb Wilson
at Carolina, and Cameron Boozer at Duke. I mean, I
look at that group and I say, that's one of
the best groups I think I've ever seen at the top.
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Hell? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Mickel Brown, you haven't mentioned down the mckel brown Dada
ment at Tennessee.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Will probably go, you know, top five, co O Pete.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
We just saw Arizona go for thirty in his first game,
will win against Florida. So deep, and we've gone from
really really crappy classes the last couple of years. I mean,
obviously we had Cooper last year, but not a lot
with them. You know, the next two and three picks
were at Rutgers. They were irrelevant from the time I
got to the players you were in Vegas. They were
completely irrelevant for the rest of the season. If you

(23:49):
weren't an NBA, you know exec So yeah, this is
a This is one of the deepest classes I've ever
seen in my twenty five years of doing this. In
the top three, they're all different, Demonza, Peterson and Boozer
and Uh, and they're all a lot of them are
really good kids. Like that's the beauty. I've got a
chance to know this group, so you kind of root

(24:11):
for him. Boozer doesn't say it, like he just wants
to play ball. He doesn't say a word. AJ's got
this unbelievable personality. Uh he's from Brockton, mass near where
I grew up. And Darren Peterson's all about like again,
like he's a killer.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
And I watched that game where he played Louisville.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Granted it was preseason, but that was like a wild
performance where you just say, Okay, this kid is you know.
I got to the point, after having watched Cal for
all those years, you can see freshman. You can almost
see within five or ten games, like is it real
or is it not? The Only time I can ever
think that a guy became like amazing that didn't really

(24:52):
show it in the first five games, was like Shay
Alexander but pretty much besides him, you can tell within
five games if a guy guys got it or not.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
And all those guys have already kind of showed they
have it.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, And people get on you when you say that,
and I'm like, well, like I've seen these guys, a
lot of them, you know, on the circuit.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
It's not the same. I get it, it's not the same.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
But when camp Buzer goes for twenty five and fifteen
every single game, you know, and his effort is there
every like I picked youth.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
To one at all. I did you know what?

Speaker 3 (25:23):
I do you think you do think they I watched
their game against Tennessee and they didn't strike me as
a national championship team, But I mean they are young,
so and.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
They got his brother is gonna be the point guard,
Caden Boozer. He's a freshman right now, they're trying to
figure it out and almost like Caleb Foster came back,
so it's like, all right, we're gonna give you the chance.
But Caleb Foster is not a point guard number one,
and it's better coming off the bench. So I think
you know, by January, if not sooner, I think you're
gonna see Kayden Boozer being the point guard. We saw

(25:53):
it last night.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Isaiah Evans was unbelievable, can shoot the hell out of it.
Camp Buzer struggled in.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
The first but still ended up with I think fifteen
and thirteen in an awful game for him.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, but I think Texas is gonna be bad though,
I don't know how much I can read into.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, they're not great. They're not great. No, I'm not,
and I'm not saying that's a litmus test. I'm saying
the good thing is it's it's very wide open this year.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
No, it is definitely what what what am I missing?
I know, dudes like you in field of sixty eight
and sort of like stat head people, you guys always
love Purdue.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Now, granted Purdue's had a lot of success. I know
they went the championship game. I know.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
I mean, you'd be you'd be a hater just to
say say that. But then I want, he's Kentucky.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I know it's.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Preseason, but like they looked like Teddy doesn't look good yet.
Kentucky doesn't have three of their best players and they
just dominated them.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
How is that team? How do you explain that result?
It's just retention. Why we have Purdue and Matt Painter. Right,
it's number one is Matt Painter. Yeah, number two is
Braydon Smith and number three is retention.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
But how do you explain that result?

Speaker 3 (27:05):
Like they look so unathletic to me, that's the problem
that it's problem me to see them winning.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
And if you if you go up against the wrong team,
which they're gonna hit one of those on the way
to a national title. I picked him go to two.
I think they can win four. I don't think they
can win six. Yeah, I think again, Duke's upsides higher.
I think Kentucky's upsides higher. I think Louisville their upside
is higher. But I just think Purdue is the safe

(27:33):
pick at number one.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
No, I get it. For me, it would be Why
wouldn't it be Houston? I mean, they've been so close,
they've been knocking on door refreshmen. That's why three freshman.
But I just feel like Houston's one of those teams.
Kelvin Sampson's an amazing coach to me, because if we
just mentioned all those names and no one ever talks
about him, if they've.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Gone him in the in the gonna be gone soon conversation.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Right, But he's also what I think is fascinat about
him is he's transitioned these eras and still done it,
you know what I mean, like it.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
And I don't think Houston has a huge Anisle budget.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
He's still doing it being Kelvin Sampson. So I don't
know how much longer he has, but I give him
a lot of credit for navigating this change as well
as he has.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
No it's unbelievable the culture of what he's built it
He's nobody saw this coming.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
And now he's.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Gone from that guy where everybody was like, all right,
what was he known for being cheating?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Right? He was known as a cheater and he was
like making phone calls. Like now it seems like nothing,
you know, but there was still illegal at the time.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
I'm with you, and I like Kelvin, and I get
a lot great with Kelvin. All says at the time,
it's like the you know, Bruce Pearl thing. At the time,
it was illegal, and he broke it multiple times.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
He'd over knowing it. So but I agree he look
back and you're like, all right, this is stupid of
all the things. Yeah, I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Put Bruce's politics aside, because that part annoyed, Like that
part's frustrating to me.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Hey, he sits down with me at the Peach jam.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, it's it's he sits in between me and Kelsey
actually front row Peach and the first thing he says
to me is I don't think I'm gonna run. And
I'm like, like, Bruce, I don't want to get into
this now, like I'm watching basketball.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Like can we just table this please? And I'm Jewish, Matt,
I'm Jewish. And he was talking about how he's gonna
be the first potentially.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
You know, it's been funny if it was him and Finebaum,
two Jewish guys running for Senate in Alabama, nobody would
have ever seen that come.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
In, you know.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
But I guess with Bruce he feels a little bit
like a cheater. I don't know how much he was.
He just feels like it. Whereas I never really felt
that way about Kevin Sampson. I've never really felt like
he well he's.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Not he because because Kelvin is not he doesn't come
across as a salesman.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
That's why you're right, and Bruce, there's a reason Calan
Bruce didn't like each other.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Of course, part of it is again I always said
this about Rick and Cow Now I think Rick is
less of a salesman, Like he'll lie about.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Shit straight out and Richard, are you right?

Speaker 2 (30:11):
No, But like Richard'll even admit that, like my dad
will lie about it. He'll he'll change his mind two
minutes later or whatever. Bruce and Cow, I think we're
just similar and didn't like each other because they're similar,
because they were both car salesman.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
It was it's always fascinating to me, and we might
as well talk about this now with Cal. I mean that,
you know, I got to know cal pretty well, and
I always used to say about Cal and Rick, what
was funny to me is they have a lot of similarities.
They're not exactly the same, but they have a lot
of similarities. And I think what Callen Rick hated was
that Callen Rick both felt like you all think we're alike,

(30:50):
but he's a bad guy and I'm a good guy,
and you think I'm a bad guy and he's a
good guy. And it drove people crazy, Like like cal
On thought he was a good guy, Rick was a
bad but people thought Rick was a good guy and
then Rick was the same way.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Rick was like, you think I'm a cheater.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
Cal's the one that's a cheater, and like it was
just funny how they both just did not want to
be compared.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
To each other. Yep, No, agreed, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
I still miss the days matter of you know, I
remember Cal would say something postgame media whatever about Rick,
and I would just literally I picked him the phone,
I call Rick and I tell him.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
What he said. Oh, you were the one that would
do that. Okay, Well it was a cool like it
was so easy. It was just so they were like
two schoolgirls. Yeah, they would just.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Keep going back and forth till the end, and then
I think they both kind of grew up a little
bit at the very end. But it was so it
was so much fun as a journalist. And it wasn't
even like clickbait back then, because that really wasn't how
it worked back then, right, it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
But what was funny to.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Me because Cal had like people. Cal had those that
he disliked, but then he also had those that he hated.
And I thought it was interesting that I don't know
that Rick was someone he hated. I think he hated
Jim Calhoun for whatever reason. That was before he got here,
so I don't really know what that was about. He
seemed to genuinely hate Bruce Pearl And for whatever reason.

(32:13):
The third one is he really seemed to hate Kevin Stallings.
I have no idea why. Really he really really hated
Kevin Stallings.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
But then, like Rick, he also kind of had a
thing with Coach K where he was like, he felt
like he and Coach K were equals, but he didn't
get credit like Coach K got. And uh, you know, okay,
so let's talk about cal because you you, you and
I had a relationship prior to cal. Then you and

(32:42):
cal did not like each other.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Where did that?

Speaker 2 (32:45):
I may still not? But where does that stem from?
In your mind? He get told, No, I know where
it's them from. I mean, I know exactly where it's
them from. There were a few things that I wrote.
The first one was Memphis and Tennessee Play. There were
number one verse two in the country down in Memphis
years ago. A bunch of his players had gotten in
trouble prior. It was all out there in the news.

(33:07):
It wasn't like I dug for it. It was you know,
I think Pierre Niles hit someone. Robert Dozer was accused
of assaulting his girlfriend Pierre and Now's hit somebody at
UAB a fan. Joey Dorsey made it rain. They were
all sorts of things that were happening. So I wrote
a column. I was at Fox saying like, hey man,
you got a chance to win the national title here, like.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
You better figure this out.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
And I put everything that had happened under Cal at Memphis,
all these things that these kids that were doing things
that they shouldn't have been doing. Well, he had Derek
kell I call me like three days before and he goes, yeah,
Cal wanted me to pass along the message that you're
not welcome in Memphis. I said, well, you can go
tell him, like you can't ban somebody from a city.
I'll see you there Saturday. So that was one. Number

(33:55):
two was the abdul Gaddy thing. I don't know if
you remember that.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
That was I vaguely do this. He did try to
ban you? Did he try to ban you from UK games?
I feel like that was they banned me. I mean
tried to get me fired everywhere everywhere.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
So we just try to get me fired a lot
of people think, do you genuinely believe not just he
wanted you to not have a job, but that he
tried to get you fired?

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, I mean a Fox. Yes, definitely, definitely a Fox.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Because I got a call from the higher up, from
the boss of my boss, and what happened to Fox.
The big thing was it involved FedEx, Memphis's biggest sponsor,
obviously basically the number two guy of FedEx. They were
recruiting a kid named Abdul Gaddie. His mother had worked
as a normal employee for ten to fifteen years, and

(34:45):
all of a sudden, this guy Bronzac David Bronzak, the
number two guy, the CEO, starts calling her and trying
to convince her to have her.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Son, Abdul Gaddi, go to Memphis.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
I had the kid on the record, I had the
mom on the record, both of them saying that, yeah,
they were getting these calls from Bronzik to persuade him
to go to Memphis. I try to write the story.
Obviously I'm working for Fox. Right the FedEx was their
biggest sponsor of the Bull series or whatever it was.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Oh, okay, so.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
They didn't want to run it. They didn't want to
run this thing? Why would you write? So it took
like a month for me to finally get him to
run the story, and then.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Cal went ballistic. I mean he was not happy at.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
All, which I mean I believe that now because he
did it to me too at the end, and on
a less like you know, Blakwaite just a different level,
wanted me to be one. But it's still I get it.
What's interesting about Cal as someone? I mean, you know
I was close with him for a long time.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, that's what aunt, right, That's basically why you and
I didn't get along for a while.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, probably.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
I mean I still think even like I've tried to
be and some people would sa Am not I would.
I've tried to separate my personal frustration and disdain with
Cal for critiquing him even when he was in his
last few years here. I sometimes felt like you were
not really able to do that. I always like felt
like you just hated him.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
And maybe that wasn't I heard to you, but it
felt like that I would pope. But I also wrote
a column I remember, coming out of their horrible year
out of the pandemic, that said they should give him
another year.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
So like, I actually think.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
I was more because I think you have the cats
is and decorses that were one hundred percent pro col right,
you have forty. I felt like I was more in
the middle than most. You didn't think you were as
bad as forty.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
No, I wasn't as bad as forty. He didn't hate
me as much. No, No, for wrote I wrote, forty
did say.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
I mean I heard Forty, with my own ears, say
his at his press conference announcing his hiring the UK,
something like I will get him.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Fired in the next couple of years.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
I mean I heard him say that, So I mean
I knew you know that was I didn't really know
him at the time, but so I I do think
that's plausible. So let me ask you this. He's got
a good team down there this year. Do you think
he has like one more run in him? Or has
the game just passed him by?

Speaker 1 (37:21):
It depends how motivated he is.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
And again I'll go back to what we talked about
earlier with his coaching stuff. I questioned that. That's what
I question. I mean, you're really gonna bring Kenny Payne back?
Like what are we doing here?

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Like? What are we doing? I mean, players love Kenny Payne.
It was a good dude. Nobody I have. By the way,
I have the craziest story ever of Kenny Payne. You
ready for this. Two years in.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
A row, I go to on vacation, on vacation once
with my daughter, just my daughter, to Bahamas and we're
playing blackjack at Bahamar and Kenny Payne walks up and
he starts playing blackjack.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
A year later where to roob up? Me, my wife,
my daughter on.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Vacation and guess who's in there playing I went to
the bathroom. I come out at the same table, my
wife and daughter, Kenny Payne. Two years in a row,
same spot, playing blackjack with Kenny. I'm like, are you
following me or something? So do you did you talk
to him? Does he hate you too?

Speaker 1 (38:20):
He was fine the first year, he was fine. Second
year he got he got out pretty quick and left.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah, he doesn't say a lot like even when he
was here, right, he doesn't. He's just not He's not
much of a talker. I don't really know him. Of
all the people that have been here, I probably know
him the least.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
So Yeah, talent wise, Matt talent wise, Yes, talent wise,
I think this team is perfect for Cal because you know, he.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Got good guards. They got good guards, which is what
he needs.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, you know he needs to kind of like that
because what Cal can't do. Let's face it, Cal's not
gonna put together some you know, innovative offense. He needs
guys that are going to be able to kind of
put the ball on the deck and make plays. He
needs the out talent, out athlete people, and I think
he's got the ability to do that with this group.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Let me ask you about Mark Pope. I mean, I
know you knew and were friends with Mark Pope before here.
I really I think everybody in Kentucky likes Mark Pope.
I have two questions about Mark Pope that still remained
to be unanswered. I mean, he answers ninety eight of them,
and I hear I two. One.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Can he get elite talent?

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Obviously, I mean elite talent not from Kentucky because we
did get Jazz for Johnson malcom Reno, but they're from Kentucky.
So can he get a couple of commitments or whatever
from that elite elite group, which I think still matters.
Maybe it doesn't matter as much as it used to,
but I think it still matters a little bit. And
then the second thing is I still want to know
if he can coach elite athletes like a team full

(39:55):
of like because I think what happened to him last
year they were they didn't have the athleticism to guard
in the SEC, to play defense. So he's clearly brought
in a team this year that has elite athletes. They've
shot the ball awfully so far. So my question is
does his style work with this roster makeup that I
do think you need the SEC?

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Do you are? What would your answer to those questions be?
And do you have any other questions about him?

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Well, first let me answer those two and then I'll
answer the third. I think Jaden Quainton's is going to
be huge for him because I think if Quaintance can
be a lottery pick, which I think he can be,
I think that changes a little bit of your question
there right. It's able to sell other guys on hey,
I did take a guy and I.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Turned him in to helped turn him into a lottery pick.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
And they may get Stokes the number one player in
America this year, which would help with that too.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
If I'm you, I don't even want Stokes.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
I don't why is that. I've heard people say that. Why.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I just don't know if Pope and Stokes were like
Pope's positsivity all the time.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Stokes needs Pope in a way. But but Tyron.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Stokes, while he's super talented, has a lot of growing
up and maturing to do a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
I heard that, and he lives in the.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
See be interesting to see how those two would go together.
What's the second question though? On the on the athletes.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
You know, I think to me, obviously you brought in
some guys that can guard that are higher level athletes
this year.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Can you mix them together? Like? That's but last year,
I'll say this, like I didn't think that.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Group was put together very I was like, lamon Butler,
can he really score enough?

Speaker 1 (41:35):
You know?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
There were some questions as well. I also don't know
with the roster, like I think they're too deep. I
know that sounds crazy.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
I said, yeah, although if they keep getting injuries, they
may need it. But you're right, and that's what obviously
he was worried. Abo That's what had him last year.
That's what hit him last year.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Is I understand that because you could you need three
point guards I mean, seriously, if you're going to get
twelve players, make sure three of them can play the
point and obviously the the you know, big question mark
right now is the health of their point guard and
can he be a guy that runs the team, can
defend at a high enough level and put everybody else

(42:12):
above him, because you could say it all you want.
I loved him when we talked to him in the
preseason when we went by there.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
But you gotta do it. You're gonna have a lot
of mouths to feet on this team, a lot. I
love that.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
I love the kid. I loved him a pid. I'll
be interested to see. I think the key to the
team is if Jalen Lowe is good. Like if he
is good, then I think I think they will be good.
Do you do you think Mark Pope wins a national
championship at Kentucky?

Speaker 2 (42:38):
I mean these the answers, no, because only one wins
a year. But if they out if they can outspend
every year, yeah, he'll be in the equation every year.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
I don't. I don't think this team wins a national title.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
I don't, but I'm saying, but I just mean in general,
like I mean Kentucky's had five coaches win a national championship,
so like it is kind of the norm here sure
to win a national championship. Do you think he becomes
the sixth?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
I'll say yes, only because again I think they're always
going to have the finite the resources. Okay, So no
matter what happens, no matter how the game changes and
the game being you know, nil and rev share and whatnot,
no matter what happens, there's gonna be two constants, and
that's Duke and Kentucky are always always going to be

(43:27):
at the top of the food chap.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I totally agree with that. Why those two?

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Because I used to say that that group was Duke, Kentucky,
North Carolina and Kansas. And even though Kansas has been very,
very good, it does seem to some extent Bill self
dependent and North Carolina, oddly to me.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Has dropped out.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Why do you think Duke, And because I agree with you,
Why do you think Duke Kentucky is really the two
and it's not a bigger group?

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Well, I think Kansas gives they're Adidas Number one. That
really hurts them. Yes, yes, explain how it.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Hurts cutely, because if you're think about it. You only
have a certain segment of players that you could even
go after. Really that that that Adidas is gonna help
you with, right, Like, there aren't that many aren't. It's
why Tyron Stokes isn't gonna go to Kansas. I can't
imagine he would go to Kansas. He's gonna go to
a Nike school. He just sign a Nike deal already.

(44:18):
So while Kansas is in his final three or four,
and I actually think Bill Self is the right guy
to coach him or even cal But I think Bill
Self's a better ex than those guy.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
But but those are the.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Guys that to me make them like I don't think
Kelsey could handle Stokes. And again, the Pope Stokes thing
is just gonna be and I do think it'll happen,
Like I think that's where he's going. I don't have
like I haven't checked up on it.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
It'll be interesting because Pope will have a lot of
guys returning next year and he'll have like he's gonna
have a like there'll probably be eight guys or returning
next year and then you throw him into it.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
It'll be an interesting miss Well, you.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Think that, you say that you think that, but then
guys are gonna different roles, right.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Well, that's true, but I would just I mean, the
you know, I think maybe not eight, but they'll have
like six or seven.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
I mean, they're gonna have a bunch. It'll be interesting.
You had a guy. I love the guy.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I love that like I just think he's so under
it and I know he played well second half last night.
I didn't watch the first half because you texted me
and I was out for my twenty fifth anniversary so
well that I was trying to celebrate. Got home, was
you know, absolutely gas from our event Monday, and sat
down and watched the second half. And I've loved him
since you bought Colin Chandler.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Man. Chandler's just a he's just a point guard.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
He's gonna be a lot better off when he didn't
because he's had to play point guard so far and
that's really not what he is.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
But he's a connector.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
He's just a guy that can make the right decisions
that you know, you could put him on the court
with anybody and everybody and he'll just blend with them.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
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(46:08):
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Do you Okay, let's do a little behind the scenes.
Fans like this, give me. It's a night out at

(46:29):
a restaurant. You're hanging out. You just want to have fun.
What coach was the best person? What's who are the
best hangs in college basketball?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Trying to think who's who's good to hang out? Andy Kennedy,
it's a pretty good one.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Okay, that's not a shock, I guess yeah. That group
Maybe the best night I ever had.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
One of the best nights was Peach Sham with And
again it's a group, man, it's a group.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
But listening to stories.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Ilways joke about the Hooters is in North Augusta, you guys.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Okay, that's where it's where every buddy goes. Yeah, I
think I think you put a ruler out there. I
was like with Bill self. One year I saw it.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
I saw Bill self like paying for the whole bar
and Hooters, and I saw it. Well, it wasn't usually
at Hooters it made you, but I saw it.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Usually the deal was Huggins.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Huggins was at Hooters with Andy Kennedy and then enclosed.
One years it was Huggins, Andy Kennedy, Frank Martin, and
I think it was like maybe me and Gary Parrish
and we went next door outside to this other restaurant
that was closed, brought some beers over there, and I
probably didn't say more than fifty words. All I did
was listening to and tell stories for like two hours,

(47:48):
and like it was when I was fairly younger, and
like your jaw is just dropping. You're just like, hey,
can I write a book about these stories? Because they
were that entertaining. Those guys are really good.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I mean, I love.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Iszoe because there's no bullet with Iszo, like none, like
he doesn't care. Now again, these days, sometimes you talk
to Iszo and it's like he's complaining for thirty straight
minutes about the sport, and you know, listen, I can
hear for a while and then I'm just like, all right,
you know what, like.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
But he doesn't quit, he keeps going, So keeps going,
keeps going. I mean, I'm trying to think of other guys.
Who would you.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
I don't want to say who's a jerk because that
makes it difficult for you, But who's a person that
is notoriously difficult to get along with outside of Danny Hurley?

Speaker 2 (48:39):
I mean, and again, I got along with early for
a long time. I mean, Cal and I you know,
I went I went back four years, four years ago,
Oscar sheebweys year, first year was that four or five
years ago? Yeah, Eric Lindsay, the then Sid who I
really miss because he's a good dude.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
He's a very good dude.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
He got us together, us together that year, and you've
been trying even right before the pandemic. And and so
I walked into Cal's office that day and right away
it was like the first thirty seconds it was like, Jeff,
you know, I'm about relationships and people.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
And this, and right away, Matt It's going through my head.
I'm like, why did I do this? Why did I
do this?

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Well? Cal Perry, listen, Cal Perry. I think Cal's a
really good guy. But I also think relationships for him
outside of his closest ones, yeah, are transactional, right, Like
it's definitely a you know, can you do something for me?
And you know, Craig Doyle many years ago said to
me when I first started, don't become friends with any

(49:47):
of these people because it makes your job hard to do. Yep,
And I actually think that's true. And you are friends
with some of these people, like how do you?

Speaker 1 (49:59):
How do you? But I think they know.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I mean again, Dan Hurley and I go on my
podcast three times a year, but I gotta say it
the way it is, And I think that's the thing
that gets lost with me, Like I'm still old school.
I'm going to say it the way it is, no
matter what. I was super close with Paul Hewitt when
he was a coach at Georgia Tech. Put him in
the hot seat two times, Like it is what it

(50:23):
is like, and I think most people respect me for
that that. I'm gonna be honest now again, are is
it harder to hammer somebody when there's somebody that you've
had a relationship for a long time? Sure, I mean absolutely,
But I put my painter on the hot seat years ago,
good dude, and he called me and he was like,
I should have been like most guys, not most. I

(50:46):
shouldn't say most, because a lot of guys will call
me and be pissed when you do that. My big thing,
here's my big thing, matter, my big thing. The guys
I'm gonna go after are the guys generally that treat
people like and not always me. Okay, So the Seth
Greenberg's of the world, the Gillespie's of the world.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
But it's true. I wonder what I've dealt with that too.
I know, I know, yeah, I know. I wonder why
I go after him.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Why I go after him is because again I know
what you how you treated your staff. I know how
you treat him. I've heard the stories over Tom Crean,
like for years now. Tom we've talked and he I
think he's he's self reflected a little.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Bit, you know. Buzz Williams another one. I mean, they're there,
you go down the line.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
The guys that I've that I've probably taken shots at
most of them, other than the former NBA players and
coaches who I've I've said across the board, the guys
that made real money, not Mark Pope. The guys that
made big money, almost all of them have failed.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Ye let me ask you one more thing before we,
before we and you you started Field of sixty eight
with Rob Dawst or what year was that?

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Five years ago? Now? Five years ago?

Speaker 3 (52:09):
And when you all started that, I thought, and I
don't know if that'll work. And I've actually been really
impressed with how well you all have done the idea
of doing those shows every night as a wrap up.
I actually think it's been great. You have a lot
of voices. I told Rob, I wish you would have
me on more.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
It's so every time I go on there, I have
a lot of fun, especially getting to talk about something
that's not Kentucky. Sometimes I think have made Oh I'd
love it. Listen anytime you want. I'm glad to do it.
But like you know, there's a whole group of people,
even guys like Tower Hensboro and John Henson and Oglesby.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
I really enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
And now you're in a partnership with on three, you
joined with the group that does KSR.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Has it has it been what you hoped it would be?
The whole thing? You mean, the whole just in general,
just the whole field of sixty eight.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, I mean, you know, when I left and it
was kind of a mutual parting of ways with ESPNU,
it was it was kind of the right time at
that point for me.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
I just had a tough year.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
If you remember, they sent me to Lithuania with the
ball idiots, and yeah, that was a mess. Dan Docketts
went after me on air. We were doing a game
together and he kind of went after me. They told
me to stand down covering the FBI investigation and instead
let a college football writer do it. And I thought

(53:35):
he kind of, you know, misstepped a little bit on
some of that.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
So it was time for me to leave.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I went to a company called Stadium, and while I
was doing stuff, it worked out perfect because Rob got
laid off. I already had a paycheck from Stadium, so
it wasn't that much of a risk for me. It
wasn't a risk. So I was like, you know what,
let's try it. Let's see what happens. We got former players,
if you remember we Wing Turner doing our Kentucky Pod.

(54:02):
We have basically former players doing odds on their on
their programs, and that there was a shelf life on
that and we started doing the show, and then you know,
I'm constantly thinking of waves of like how do we
keep this thing going and how do we have multiple.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Revenue streams to be able to keep it going.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Well, one of them has been you know, this opening
date event that we just did with six games.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Which I think is great. I think you and I
know that's a huge undertaking. Uh And I actually think
y'all do a great job with it. I found myself
watching it there. It's it's a really it's a smart,
cool thing to do. My only suggestion is you ought
to come to a place like Kentucky and do it
where people I know Kentucky, No, they wouldn't play in it,
but oh you can't.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
In Kentucky wouldn't play in it.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
But I'm saying like you could do it if you
if you had a thing where a lot of games
were going on, saying Memorial Coliseum or something, and you
had Eastern play or more ahead, I actually think people
would come and watch it.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
But I do, I mean, I think it would have
to be more.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Correctly, but I do if you did it the right
because people love the sport here so much.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
We're going to add a third site.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
We are going to add a third site to this
to be able to go twenty four hours next year,
probably be a Midwest So that's very cool.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not I would want to think
about how you would do it, but like the idea
of doing it in a Memorial Coliseum but having Eastern
and morehead or something play.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
I actually don't what we did in rock Hill. We
have Winthrop and Queens and it was sold out.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
You know, the eight am game was packed because I
was you know, you got to have the local teams.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, I want to get a high major matchup. I
want to get one.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
I have a commitment right now from a team presently
in the top twenty five to play.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
That's what you need. Dan, you get that, you'll be
you'll be good. Well, good luck with it's field of
sixty eight. For I think most people want listening to
this will know it. But if you don't, you definitely
should check it out.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Jeff and I over the years we've we've had great relationships.
We've also fought, but I've always said he knows college
basketball as well as anybody. And thank you very much
for the time, and we'll talk to you again soon
sounds good.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
It was good, good catching up, Matt. I'm glad. I'm
glad we're friends again and deals on me sounds good.
Appreciate it.