October 17, 2024 • 11 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is another piece that's very quick made the point.
This is probably one of the most critical elections of
our lifetime in a number of different ways. It's not
just the top of the ticket. I'm saying all the
way down to the bamba say dog catcher. That's how
important I believe each one of these particular races is.
(00:22):
In fact, this next race is one that I think
is right up there as well. Andrew Fink joins us
right now, running for Michigan State Supreme Court. Good morning,
So I appreciate you taking the time currently State Rep.
Pink Fink, Rep. Thank you for being here with us today.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Always great to be on with you, justin thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So a lot going on in the country, obviously a
lot going on here in the state, and as you
are well aware of these issues, many of them are
going to make their way to the court, and we're
seeing that happen right now. And I can't think of
a more important time for us to have a buttoned
(01:06):
up a process in which that people there's never even
an appearance of impropriety. But yesterday we learned from Sinner
Jim Runstead that he had called into question contributions at
the sitting Secretary of State, and her packet made to
one particular candidate then went on to rule in a
certain way, and I don't know. I look, it could
(01:26):
just be coincidence, but she went on to write the
majority opinion in this still deal. And so he's asking
why are these things happening? Should we not? And I
won't maybe ask you to comment specifically on that, but
let me just ask you and from the standpoint that
you can just the whole ethics of the situation. To me,
(01:47):
I'm just struck, just a normal everyday citizen, I'm just
struggle with the fact that there should never be even
an appearance of impropriety in this system at all.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's certainly the standard that the jugital
Canons place on not only judges and justices, but justices
or judges with a different name and candidates for judicial office.
That's the standard is to avoid the appearance of propriety.
So obviously it's important for any of us involved in
the judiciary to set that tone. Something I think is
(02:22):
kind of an interesting and almost amazing if you think
about the simplicity of it. Though, justice is if the
court maintains a rule of law or philosophy. You know,
someone call it originalist, other people who have politicized that term.
But if the court stuck to trying to read the
law and it fairly in every case, then would you
(02:42):
wouldn't see as many instances where people are upset about,
you know, the policy that the court is putting into place,
because it wouldn't be a policy making body, and so
you wouldn't mind up with as many instances where people
are wondering why is the court making this decision because
a lot of these issues don't wind up in the
court system if they know that the court is going
(03:04):
to apply the law in a fair way. Court filings
go down when you have to rule of what work,
and that's because the results are predictable and they follow
the text. So it's it's interesting that you have read
a lot of these kind of hot button issues simply
by staking to the judiciary's proper role.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Anyway, So let me let me add because that's a
fantastic point, and and you know it does seem reasonable
to to that would be the conclusion Andrew Fink, with
this right now is running from Michigan Supreme Court. Let
me let me let me ask you some of the
things that you're hearing as you're out talking to people
and what they would like to see and that maybe
(03:43):
return the restoration and make sure that we are following
everything by the book and of course ethically things are
restored as well. What are the things the most important
things you're hearing from people about now? What I do
believe is one of the most critical races in our
in our state.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, I would say it's a combination of kind of
what I think is on your mind here justin On
the one hand, there's this concern about the politicization of
court and what's interesting about that is that that's actually not
a right left issue. Now people might see different courts
as being the sort of patians all of this. I
have had questions or the premises that the federal court
(04:27):
systems politicized but the state court system is not. But
that's not really the vibe that lots of other Michiganians
have where they think they are seeing partisan or otherwise
political decisions being made in the Michigan court system. That's, though,
I think a symptom of the court being unpredictable as well,
(04:49):
in other words, by not following the law. And this
is probably the big kind of general topic is that
the court winds up surprising people with their decision making.
It's not a stable way to run a government, you know,
at any level, but at the Supreme Court level. What
you wind up with then our business interests or people
(05:12):
thinking that they can't trust the court. They sort of
apply the law in a predictable way, which means they
don't know how to apply the law in their own lives,
their own business dealings or what have you. And then
you wind up with people thinking, well, I'd rather live
somewhere with the court that's a little more reliable. And
as I always like to point out, only about fifteen
miles from Ohio, you know, my constituenc here in the
(05:32):
thirty fifth District can easily live in Ohio or Indiana
and go about most business the same way. And so
what what does Michigan have to offer, Well, stable judicial decision.
They used to be a part of the answer to that,
and if it is again, then we can be part
of the turnaround. You know.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I think that's a very important point, specifically during the
last several years, and you know, and the COVID issues
and whatnot. In fact, a little bit later on today,
we're going to be tying. I'm not going to ask
you to comment on this necessarily, but we're going to
talk to someone who is you know, eventually this this, this,
his situation could end up in front of the court.
But Ian Murphy with the Iron Pig, one of the
(06:12):
business owners concerned about those those issues, and as you mentioned,
these are these are things that sent people during that
time across the boarder to get a haircut, across the
border to do business and send you know, thousands of
people scurrying out of the state of Michigan altogether because
that business, whether it was the businesses closed up shop
(06:33):
and says I I don't I can't plan to. I
have no idea how they're going to operate there. Or
parents who were concerned about the way things were headed
and decided they're going to pull up stakes and and
and had the greater pastures. We've seen that happen over
and over again. And so when you have a lawless
(06:53):
and chaotic society, a lawless and chaotic state of affairs
in a state, beautiful, wonderful state like Michigan, really bad
things can happen. And I think that's a fantastic point
you've made.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean, obviously the principle, you know, difference makers
should be the policy makers on these issues, right, I mean,
I'm in the state legislature now, have been very critical
of what's happened in the last couple of years in
the state legislature. You know, things like energy rates, income
tax rates. These are items that the current majority in
the legislator or the governor have found ways to put
(07:31):
pressure on to in the case of income taxes, make
sure that they raise back up from the minor cut
that we had last year. And in the case of
energy rates, you know, doing the initially the Michigan's Green
New Deal, which is going to increase the pressure on
that system in a number of different ways, and we'll
ultimately that constantly born by the consumer. So those are
(07:53):
not really decisions. Those are policy decisions. But the judiciary
fits in is they're not exacerbating the problem by adding
to the known cost of living in Michigan, the unknown
cost of unpredicted decision making at the court level, because
that white white wind up, you know, destroying an entire
calculation the person or a business or whatever has made
(08:15):
about what the you know, risks and benefits of living
in Michigan are so Yeah. I think it's a little
under the radar how important a stable judiciary is in
making sure you've got an environment people actually can you know,
thrive in and again know how the law is going
to be applied to them, because how how can it
ever be fair for putting the walk around really not
(08:36):
knowing if what they're doing is going to get them
into some kind of, you know, trouble. You need to
have predictable decision making in the court system for really
for a republic to operate.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Andrew Fink running for Michigan State Supreme Court and of
course he'd love your vote. Obviously, lots to get done
in lots coming through in the in the days ahead.
We've got to need to make sure that we are
solidified on and look, there's a lot writing on this.
We've gone from very reasonable folks on both sides of
(09:11):
the aisle being able to have their disagreements with things
and what not, to a very unreasonable situations and a
very politically charged situation. A lot of that driven by
the left, and as it as it stands right now,
so left leaning court here in Michigan, and I can't
imagine where we're headed as the days unfold in front
(09:33):
of us. What that all looks like a lot of
people wondering about that as well. But the answer is
getting out and Andrew. People want to find out more.
I know, they want to stay up to date with you.
They want to maybe share your information with other people
of friends and family. Were encouraging people not just to vote,
but also talk to the people they know about voting.
That so many people that are well, these are people
(09:56):
that don't normally vote, but if they did, boy, they'd
vote right along with us. But we got to get
them engaged in the process and in this in this system.
So they want to share that information as well. The
best way for folks.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
To do that. Yeah, the easiest place to start is
my website, which is think from Michigan dot com and
on the social media platforms more or less all of them,
although not TikTok, think for m I dot com or sorry,
think for m I is the handle, So think for
Michigan dom and think for am I as the handle
(10:28):
on the socials. You know, the most important part of
that get out the vote message for for our race,
justin is that we're in the non partisan section of
the ballot. So although we get nominated by the parties, uh,
it's it's still a non partisan race, which of course
appropriate for judicial but it means that you've got to
get past the part isn't saying your ballot. You know,
if you're a straight ticket voter one way or the other,
(10:49):
you still need to do a little extra work to
vote in judicial races, regardless of which level. So in
my you know, I was nominated alongside Judge Billogrady and
and we appreciate that everybody getting to the non partisan
section of the ballot making sure you do select Supreme
Court justices and and fill it out for any other
judicial races that you have, because it's you know, it's
the third part of your vermit. But it's a little
(11:11):
more it's a little more difficult for everybody to kind
of get their arms around because it's a non partisan
because again it's the most i'll call it entrepreneurial branch.
At least it shouldn't be. So that's the way to
follow us. Thankform Michigan dot com and the social media
placement and encouraging everyone to vote that non part of
the section of the ballots. The best way to lend
a hand.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Right now think and oh Grandy Andrew, thank thank you
so much for our particular time to be here with
us today. We always appreciate you, same here justin thank you,
God blessed,
This is another piece that's very quick made the point.
This is probably one of the most critical elections of
our lifetime in a number of different ways. It's not
just the top of the ticket. I'm saying all the
way down to the bamba say dog catcher. That's how
important I believe each one of these particular races is.
(00:22):
In fact, this next race is one that I think
is right up there as well. Andrew Fink joins us
right now, running for Michigan State Supreme Court. Good morning,
So I appreciate you taking the time currently State Rep.
Pink Fink, Rep. Thank you for being here with us today.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Always great to be on with you, justin thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So a lot going on in the country, obviously a
lot going on here in the state, and as you
are well aware of these issues, many of them are
going to make their way to the court, and we're
seeing that happen right now. And I can't think of
a more important time for us to have a buttoned
(01:06):
up a process in which that people there's never even
an appearance of impropriety. But yesterday we learned from Sinner
Jim Runstead that he had called into question contributions at
the sitting Secretary of State, and her packet made to
one particular candidate then went on to rule in a
certain way, and I don't know. I look, it could
(01:26):
just be coincidence, but she went on to write the
majority opinion in this still deal. And so he's asking
why are these things happening? Should we not? And I
won't maybe ask you to comment specifically on that, but
let me just ask you and from the standpoint that
you can just the whole ethics of the situation. To me,
(01:47):
I'm just struck, just a normal everyday citizen, I'm just
struggle with the fact that there should never be even
an appearance of impropriety in this system at all.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's certainly the standard that the jugital
Canons place on not only judges and justices, but justices
or judges with a different name and candidates for judicial office.
That's the standard is to avoid the appearance of propriety.
So obviously it's important for any of us involved in
the judiciary to set that tone. Something I think is
(02:22):
kind of an interesting and almost amazing if you think
about the simplicity of it. Though, justice is if the
court maintains a rule of law or philosophy. You know,
someone call it originalist, other people who have politicized that term.
But if the court stuck to trying to read the
law and it fairly in every case, then would you
(02:42):
wouldn't see as many instances where people are upset about,
you know, the policy that the court is putting into place,
because it wouldn't be a policy making body, and so
you wouldn't mind up with as many instances where people
are wondering why is the court making this decision because
a lot of these issues don't wind up in the
court system if they know that the court is going
(03:04):
to apply the law in a fair way. Court filings
go down when you have to rule of what work,
and that's because the results are predictable and they follow
the text. So it's it's interesting that you have read
a lot of these kind of hot button issues simply
by staking to the judiciary's proper role.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Anyway, So let me let me add because that's a
fantastic point, and and you know it does seem reasonable
to to that would be the conclusion Andrew Fink, with
this right now is running from Michigan Supreme Court. Let
me let me let me ask you some of the
things that you're hearing as you're out talking to people
and what they would like to see and that maybe
(03:43):
return the restoration and make sure that we are following
everything by the book and of course ethically things are
restored as well. What are the things the most important
things you're hearing from people about now? What I do
believe is one of the most critical races in our
in our state.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, I would say it's a combination of kind of
what I think is on your mind here justin On
the one hand, there's this concern about the politicization of
court and what's interesting about that is that that's actually not
a right left issue. Now people might see different courts
as being the sort of patians all of this. I
have had questions or the premises that the federal court
(04:27):
systems politicized but the state court system is not. But
that's not really the vibe that lots of other Michiganians
have where they think they are seeing partisan or otherwise
political decisions being made in the Michigan court system. That's, though,
I think a symptom of the court being unpredictable as well,
(04:49):
in other words, by not following the law. And this
is probably the big kind of general topic is that
the court winds up surprising people with their decision making.
It's not a stable way to run a government, you know,
at any level, but at the Supreme Court level. What
you wind up with then our business interests or people
(05:12):
thinking that they can't trust the court. They sort of
apply the law in a predictable way, which means they
don't know how to apply the law in their own lives,
their own business dealings or what have you. And then
you wind up with people thinking, well, I'd rather live
somewhere with the court that's a little more reliable. And
as I always like to point out, only about fifteen
miles from Ohio, you know, my constituenc here in the
(05:32):
thirty fifth District can easily live in Ohio or Indiana
and go about most business the same way. And so
what what does Michigan have to offer, Well, stable judicial decision.
They used to be a part of the answer to that,
and if it is again, then we can be part
of the turnaround. You know.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I think that's a very important point, specifically during the
last several years, and you know, and the COVID issues
and whatnot. In fact, a little bit later on today,
we're going to be tying. I'm not going to ask
you to comment on this necessarily, but we're going to
talk to someone who is you know, eventually this this, this,
his situation could end up in front of the court.
But Ian Murphy with the Iron Pig, one of the
(06:12):
business owners concerned about those those issues, and as you mentioned,
these are these are things that sent people during that
time across the boarder to get a haircut, across the
border to do business and send you know, thousands of
people scurrying out of the state of Michigan altogether because
that business, whether it was the businesses closed up shop
(06:33):
and says I I don't I can't plan to. I
have no idea how they're going to operate there. Or
parents who were concerned about the way things were headed
and decided they're going to pull up stakes and and
and had the greater pastures. We've seen that happen over
and over again. And so when you have a lawless
(06:53):
and chaotic society, a lawless and chaotic state of affairs
in a state, beautiful, wonderful state like Michigan, really bad
things can happen. And I think that's a fantastic point
you've made.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean, obviously the principle, you know, difference makers
should be the policy makers on these issues, right, I mean,
I'm in the state legislature now, have been very critical
of what's happened in the last couple of years in
the state legislature. You know, things like energy rates, income
tax rates. These are items that the current majority in
the legislator or the governor have found ways to put
(07:31):
pressure on to in the case of income taxes, make
sure that they raise back up from the minor cut
that we had last year. And in the case of
energy rates, you know, doing the initially the Michigan's Green
New Deal, which is going to increase the pressure on
that system in a number of different ways, and we'll
ultimately that constantly born by the consumer. So those are
(07:53):
not really decisions. Those are policy decisions. But the judiciary
fits in is they're not exacerbating the problem by adding
to the known cost of living in Michigan, the unknown
cost of unpredicted decision making at the court level, because
that white white wind up, you know, destroying an entire
calculation the person or a business or whatever has made
(08:15):
about what the you know, risks and benefits of living
in Michigan are so Yeah. I think it's a little
under the radar how important a stable judiciary is in
making sure you've got an environment people actually can you know,
thrive in and again know how the law is going
to be applied to them, because how how can it
ever be fair for putting the walk around really not
(08:36):
knowing if what they're doing is going to get them
into some kind of, you know, trouble. You need to
have predictable decision making in the court system for really
for a republic to operate.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Andrew Fink running for Michigan State Supreme Court and of
course he'd love your vote. Obviously, lots to get done
in lots coming through in the in the days ahead.
We've got to need to make sure that we are
solidified on and look, there's a lot writing on this.
We've gone from very reasonable folks on both sides of
(09:11):
the aisle being able to have their disagreements with things
and what not, to a very unreasonable situations and a
very politically charged situation. A lot of that driven by
the left, and as it as it stands right now,
so left leaning court here in Michigan, and I can't
imagine where we're headed as the days unfold in front
(09:33):
of us. What that all looks like a lot of
people wondering about that as well. But the answer is
getting out and Andrew. People want to find out more.
I know, they want to stay up to date with you.
They want to maybe share your information with other people
of friends and family. Were encouraging people not just to vote,
but also talk to the people they know about voting.
That so many people that are well, these are people
(09:56):
that don't normally vote, but if they did, boy, they'd
vote right along with us. But we got to get
them engaged in the process and in this in this system.
So they want to share that information as well. The
best way for folks.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
To do that. Yeah, the easiest place to start is
my website, which is think from Michigan dot com and
on the social media platforms more or less all of them,
although not TikTok, think for m I dot com or sorry,
think for m I is the handle, So think for
Michigan dom and think for am I as the handle
(10:28):
on the socials. You know, the most important part of
that get out the vote message for for our race,
justin is that we're in the non partisan section of
the ballot. So although we get nominated by the parties, uh,
it's it's still a non partisan race, which of course
appropriate for judicial but it means that you've got to
get past the part isn't saying your ballot. You know,
if you're a straight ticket voter one way or the other,
(10:49):
you still need to do a little extra work to
vote in judicial races, regardless of which level. So in
my you know, I was nominated alongside Judge Billogrady and
and we appreciate that everybody getting to the non partisan
section of the ballot making sure you do select Supreme
Court justices and and fill it out for any other
judicial races that you have, because it's you know, it's
the third part of your vermit. But it's a little
(11:11):
more it's a little more difficult for everybody to kind
of get their arms around because it's a non partisan
because again it's the most i'll call it entrepreneurial branch.
At least it shouldn't be. So that's the way to
follow us. Thankform Michigan dot com and the social media
placement and encouraging everyone to vote that non part of
the section of the ballots. The best way to lend
a hand.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Right now think and oh Grandy Andrew, thank thank you
so much for our particular time to be here with
us today. We always appreciate you, same here justin thank you,
God blessed,
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