October 13, 2024 • 25 mins
CredentialsPositions
Board Certifications
Education and Training
- Laura and Isaac Perlmutter Professor of Radiation Oncology, Department of Radiation Oncology at NYU Grossman School of Medicine
- Chair, Department of Radiation Oncology
- Director, Laura and Isaac Perlmutter Cancer Center
Board Certifications
- American Board of Radiology - Radiation Oncology, 2009
Education and Training
- Residency, Brigham and Women's Hospital (Harvard Medical School), Radiation Oncology, 2008
- MD from Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai, 2003
- PhD from Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai, 2003
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The following is a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The following program is brought to you by NYU Land
Going Health. It's Kats's Corner with doctor Aaron Kats. You're
trusted expert in men's health, providing straight talk on a
wide range of men's health topics and advice on how
to live your healthiest life. Now on seventy ten woor
It's the Chairman of Urology at NYU Land Gone Hospital,
(00:32):
Long Island. Here is doctor Aaron Katz.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, good morning everyone, and welcome again to Kansas Corner
here on war So glad you could join us this morning.
We have a wonderful show for you this morning. And
if you're a regular listener of Kats's Corner, you know
that we often talk about various areas of cancer, and
this morning I thought that we would talk about our
cancer center, the promoter Cancer Center at NYU And we
(01:00):
have a new leader, a new director of the cancer
center that I'm going to bring on as a wonderful
guest first time, first time here on Katz's Corner, Doctor
Alec Kimmelman, MD and PhD, who is now the director
of the Laura and Isaac Promoter Cancer Center. He also
holds other titles at NYU. He's the Professor and Chair
of Radiation Oncology and also Associate Dean of Cancer Research
(01:24):
at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine at NYU, and
he's published many, many articles extensively in the areas of
cancer and specifically in the area of pancreatic cancer. He
did lots of training at Mount Sinai here in New York,
and then subsequently he actually joined Harvard Medical School as
a clinical fellow and completed his training in radiation oncology
(01:47):
and the postdoctoral fellowship at the very prestigious Dana Farber
Cancer Center up in Boston. And he has really a
vibrant researcher. He's published a lot. His lab is published
so many articles in very prestigious journals, including journals like
Sell and Nature and Cancer Discovery and really some of
(02:09):
the top top cancer journals. And in twenty twenty one,
Alec Killman was named as one of the world's most
influential researchers and for recognition of authoring these types of
papers and really the top one percent in his field.
So ALEC, doctor Kimmeleman, thank you so much for joining
(02:30):
us and really look forward to hearing about your vision
and what's new at the Promoter Cancer Center. So thank
you and appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for
that very night for introduction. It's great to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, and since you joined the Promoter Cancer Center, which
is really one of the few cancer centers that is
designated by NIH to be a collaborative cancer center, maybe
you can tell our listeners what does that mean to
gain that kind of a status I designated comprehensive cancer
(03:03):
center because there aren't that many in the United States,
So maybe you can start out there.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I mean, it's one of it. It's a great point
and it's one of the main pantages of being at
fully integrated academic medical center. It's you know, the highest
honor that's a national cancer to give the cancer center.
And what it basically means is that you know, you
serve your catchment area, which are the patients who come
(03:28):
here your doors, in a variety of ways. You offer
them the most innovative care, access to the latest clinical trials,
important studies in terms of screening and cancer prevention at
a high level where the discoveries that we make in
our research laboratories can be translated back to serve our community.
(03:50):
And we also importantly the designation means we study certain
cancers whether disparity is different an incident is between different
ethnic groups or so through economic groups, and we work
to eliminate those disparities. So it is a group you know, uh,
not more, not many more than one per state in
New York has a couple, but that gets that not
(04:12):
only NTI designation which we have. We're comprehensive that.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, I mean that that certainly is a major achievement,
isn't it for for n y U? And I don't
know how many other medical or or medical centers in
the area have that designated three three in the city
really just three in the in the city. Yeah, and
you can imagine how many hospitals there are in New
York and the metropolitan area, uh, to be in the
(04:37):
three and that's really wonderful And as you mentioned, it
really does make a difference for patients out there and
achieve and you know, in just an access to care
no matter where you live in the in the boroughs
or even beyond UH. And also you mentioned the clinical
trials and what does that mean for people if they're
(04:58):
if they how do they know if they're eligible or
something for a for a clinical trial.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
That's a that's a great question. You know, many times,
you know in certain cancers, the best therapy for a
patient is a clinical trial certain answers, particularly where we
don't have the best outcomes. You know, the most innovative
and and novel therapies are offered to patients of a
clinical trial, which is essentially a way of testing a
new therapy that we believe based on previous either pre
(05:26):
clinical data, so data from the laboratory for early phase
UH patient studies that we believe it could be promising,
but we don't know, and we have the ability to
offer patients these clinical trials. To participate in them, you
have to see your physician and they'll go through you know,
the eligibility whether or not you're able to go on
(05:46):
the clinical trial. And then I'll spend a lot of
time talking to you about the risks and benefits of
a clinical trial for for your particular situation.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, you bring up an excellent point because you know,
many patients feel a clinical trial that's just for relapsed cancer,
but that's not really true, is it. I mean it
may be just for upfront cancer and getting the most
sophisticated and novel approaches to cancer. Would you agree.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
With that one hundred percent? I mean, their clinical trials
on the diagnosis, their clinical trials on following the cancer.
And as you mentioned in you know, early stage cancers,
frontline therapy a lot of times. What we're doing, and
I know you personally participated in some of the we're
trying to de escalate therapy to sort of see what
the the therapy that we can give that produces the
(06:36):
same or better curates but decreases the amount of side effects.
And I don't know, I think that's equally as important,
if not more, many patients.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
No, No, absolutely right, Yeah, I mean we are. You know,
I'm running a clinical trial now for patients with prostate
cancer with my colleagues doctor has and Radiation oncology to
see if we can not only reduce the amount of
time of radiation, but also for pays that have a
little bit higher risk cancer that we'd get a standard
type of treatment that we're hormones treatment that we may
(07:06):
have more side effects. We're using this new oral medication
in combination with radiation and finding Wow, it's phenomenal. It's
targeted to the cancer cell. It doesn't give you the
lowering of the testosterone and the other side effects that
people can have. So it really has been rather remarkable
and one of the first for me anyway, clinical trials
(07:27):
that I've been running is an upfront therapy and it
really has been quite impressive. So I appreciate your thoughts
on that. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Now, I mean that there's so many patients for their
early stage disease and we want to make sure we're
not you know, overtreating them as we're referring to, and
the only way to understand that is through a clinical trial.
So sometimes they apply to very advanced disease where we
don't have any other therapy to offer but experimental therapy
than other times that in early stage what we do
very well, but we want to now do you the better.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, And you know, I was reading your bio and
certainly you've done a tremendous amount of work in the
area of a of a cancer that we all when
we hear about it pancreatic cancer. When we hear that
that term, you know, it's like, oh god, doom and
gloom and oh wow, you know it's Uh, someone has
pancreatic cancer. You know, how long do they have?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And Uh, you've done tremendous work in your lab. What
what do you see there? Is the is the future
or even now? Have you seen any new discoveries in
this particular area of cancer.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yeah, I mean, it still remains one of the toughest
cancers that that we faid, although you know, we have
made you know, significant improvements. When I first started, there
were really no effective therapy, but now we have you know,
multiple demote therapeutic agents that you know, show promised and
the disease and prolonged survival. So they're definitely a lot
more hope, you know. I think it's a multi pronged
(08:49):
approach in this these you know, one is we don't
discover it until late in the treatment, late in its course.
So oftentimes by the time we discover the disease, the
patients are incurable. And so there's all huge effort going
on here and many other places to try and detect
the cancer early when it's matured by surgery, and then
(09:10):
you know, it's also to figure out how to make
advance the deeds respond to better, and we're trying to
do all sorts of things. We're trying to cut off
the tumor fuel sources by understanding you know, what it
uses to grow and survive. We're trying to harness the
immune system to attack the tumor where and we're trying
to find new targeted agents to treat the the deeds.
(09:34):
So it's it's an exciting time in the field. There's
been a lot of advances that you know where we're
we're playing a particular part in, but more to come.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, absolutely, and through more of the research, like what
you're doing in your lab, I will certainly translate into
new hope for patients. I mean, in my own career,
what I've seen is the explosion of something that I
never thought I would see, or is the approach to
you using immune therapy now the whole shield it seems
to have exploded with thankfully through research immune approaches to
(10:09):
cancer therapies and learning about the strategies and using sometimes
combination of immune therapies too. In combination, as you said,
with either surgery or instead of maybe chemotherapy which may
have more side effects, and using our own bodies immune
system to kind of trick the cancer, if you will,
really has made a big impact. And wow, that would
(10:32):
be tremendous. That is tremendous, and I'm sure that takes
a tremendous teamwork to do something like that. But that's
what we have here at the Promoter Cancer Center. If
you just wake it up in the morning, here in
Kancer's Corner, we're talking with doctor Alec Kimmelman, who is
now the director of the Laura and Isaac Promoter Cancer
Center and Professor and Chair of Radiation Oncology and the
(10:53):
Associate Dean of Cancer Research at the NYU Grossman School
of Medicine at NYU. And if you're listening, you can
tell that the he is leading an enormous cancer center
here in New York area.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah, we you know, it's exactly as you said. It's
it's it's a revolution right now in terms of what
we've been able to do with immunotherapy. You know, for
a while the fields wasn't making that much progress, and
then there were some profound discoveries what's called the mute
checkpoint blockade, which stumps the the you know, the immune
self from shutting down when they are attacking the tumor
(11:28):
and reversing. That has really led to a lot of responses.
We've been fortunate here to be you know, at the forefront,
at the promoter cauntra status, the forefront both and the
basic science and translational science, but also the clinical science.
UH Jeff Weber, our deputy director, led the one of
the first clinical trials using the Maderna RNA vaccine and
(11:49):
mRNA vaccine to personalize immune therapy for a particular patients
tumor in melanoma. And that trial showed a huge promise.
It was a randomized trial, though they're now going to
make a much larger trial to confirm it. But there's
a lot going on and we're very excited.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Wow, that that's phenomenal and that that's in melanoma, did you.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Say, yeah? Yeah. And they took the patient's tumor and
they speak with them and figured out which personalized antigen
would be important in their particular patients tumor. They made
a custom mRNA back then for each patient and combine
that with checkpoint BLOCKI.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Wow, I mean that's I mean, we're talking about personalized medicine.
You know, we in my own field in urology, I'm
thinking we're doing more of the genomic testing to say, well,
not everybody's prostate cancer looks the same. Uh, you know,
under the microscope it may look the same, but if
you do the genomics on someone and you look into
their DNA, it may be different. And we're giving them
(12:47):
more personalized you know, therapy. But here you're talking about
a personalized approach and strategy to the kill cancer, which
and a therapy which is remarkable and I had heard
about that. But congratulations to the yes, yeah, to to
take out a piece of the tumor and sequence that
(13:08):
you're saying and then develop a vaccine against it. Is that?
Is that what you're saying? Pretty much?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Yeap. So they do, they do the genomic sequence thing
on the on a piece of the tumor, and they
you know, they have these algorithms to try and predict
which would be the most important you know, tumor antigen
and then because of that, you know, as we all know,
the m r N a vaccine technology which exploded during COVID.
You can rapidly produce you know, personalize the vaccine, and
it was very exciting. It showed a lot of promise,
(13:36):
and people are now trying to broaden the other types
of cancer.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Do you think that will they'll there'll be a day
soon that we'll see that for you know, for CAM.
I mean, I wonder do you think that certainly we
have remarkable surgeons at at the hospital that are able
to cure people, but for the advanced stage disease where
surgery is no longer maybe not indicated immediately. Let's say
(14:01):
maybe down the line it might be, but to put
patients in a remission first, rather than using the old
approaches of chemotherapy, that this might be an approach to
someone has an advanced disease. Maybe we give them a vaccine,
get them in remission, and then go ahead and remove
the primary tumor, whether it be in the you know, breast,
(14:23):
the colon, prostate or you know, kidney whatever.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
I think that's right. I mean, I think the advantage
of the immune system has is that, you know, chemotherapy
only works when you give it, but you know, the
immune system its basically a constant attack on the tumor,
so you really can get you know, potentially signfficulty more response.
And I think what you're saying is one hundred percent correct,
(14:46):
where if we can, even in a more advanced disease,
get the tumor to the point where it's actually respectable,
you could potentially cure more patients. We played a role
on a a national trial that was co led by
my Felf and Dave Ryan at the Math General Hospital
and pack Griff Cancer, where that was the goal and
(15:07):
was to take patients and pack RIfS cancer will unrespectable,
use a combination of novel biological therapies to drink it
enough where the surgeons could go in and reflect the
patient potentially procured. I think that paradigm, as you're saying,
will hopefully get more and more prevalent if you.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Just wake it up in the morning. Here in Kansas Corner,
we're talking with doctor Alec Kimmelman, who is now the
director of the Laura and Isaac Promot of Cancer Center
and Professor and Chair of Radiation Oncology and the Associate
Dean of Cancer Research at the NYU Grossman School of
Medicine at NYU. And really, if you're listening, you can
tell that he is leading an enormous cancer center here
(15:49):
in New York area. We heard that the comprehensive cancer
center status is just available for just right now, only
just a few hospitals, only three in the metropolitan area.
YU has the Promuter Cancer Center, and all this research
is going on for patients Dr Kimmelman that are listening
and they're wondering, well, you know, do I need to
(16:09):
go to the city to get access to this promoter
cancer care or if I'm living in let's say, Brooklyn
or Long Island or Queen's or Staten Island, you know,
how do patients need to come to that hub or
are there outreach you know, centers along all these communities.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
It's actually, you know, a great, a great question. And
as you know, one of the things that we've taken
a big amount of pride end that you could get
the quality of care that you would, you know, anywhere
in the Promuter Cancer vetor. So if you live on
Long Island, you can go to NYU Long Island, which
is part of the comprehensive that there and offer the
things we have services and outstanding clinical care and in fact,
(16:53):
almost all the clinical trial that we offer in Manhattan
are also offered at Long Islands, and we have you know,
another fantastic hospital in NYU Brooklyn and Stunt That Park.
We have a cancer center there which had outstanding clinical care,
and we are in the process of trying to open
all the thing clinical trials we have here there. So
the goal is basically that you do not have to
come into Manhattan to get the family exact standard of
(17:17):
care wherever you live. And I think that's important because
we don't want patients to have to you know, drive
long difference during a very tough period.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, and beyond just cancer care, I mean,
I'm just thinking about things that we on Long Island
don't do that the city does, which is mainly kidney
transplants and heart transplants, pancre and type of transplant and
so patients are evaluated and then if they need a transplant,
they go to the city, but then they can be
taken care of out here because we have all these
(17:47):
doctors that are specialized. Now they can take care of
patients after transplant. And you know, most of the clinical
trials I think that you've mentioned are available, you know,
in different areas beyond just Manhattan. Some of the more
complicated ones certainly do require expertise to go to the
city for those you know, novel and unique ones that
(18:09):
are really you know, just a little bit more complex.
But most of the clinical trials you know that we
run out here, we're you know, mirroring the ones in
the city. And you're absolutely right. And if a patient
gets an MRI or a cat scan here on Long Island,
it's read by the hub of excellent radiologists in the city.
That because I tell patients, you know that they need
(18:30):
an MRI of the prostate, you got to go to
NYU because and no matter where you get it, it'll
be read in the city, and it'll be read by
a team of people that are professional that are doing
this twenty four to seven reading these these types of images.
So it really does, you know, escalate the standard of
care for and the access of care to all people.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
I mean, it's one of it's a great point and
it's one of the main adpathages that being at fully
integrated academic medical center, where as you know, the medical record,
all the MRIs, everything is all in one system. Yes,
and wherever you go you the differen't have access. Then
I think it's a really spectful thing that you know,
(19:13):
if you get your care in Brooklyn, but you happened
to be visiting family on Long Island, then public happened
you would you have to go to the emergency room
at NYU Long Island. They have a copy of all
your medical records. They electronically are in touch with your
your regular position, and you know, it allowed for much
moother hare.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Incredible, incredible, all your medications, your allergies, your history, your
surgical history. It's no longer the days of looking for
the charts. You know, your mouth those days, you know,
looking for the paper charts. And it's as you said,
it doesn't any of the facilities that you go to
at n YU. They're even opening up offices, you know,
down in Florida. And it doesn't matter no matter where
(19:53):
you go. It's it's part of the epic system. And
it really does make a tremendous difference. So I know
you just taken on this position, you know, recently, to
be the director of this wonderful and prestigious promoter cancer center.
You know, what do you think is your your vision
now for for the future, for the for the cancer center.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Some of it is what we talked about which is
the ultimate goal is that every single clinical trial and
every single facet of care is this all of our
And we've made a lot of progress. As you said,
NYU Long Island has almost all of the clinical trials,
but you know there are some other hospitals like our
Brooklyn Hospital, which we have a little bit of work
to do. It's something we're very focused on because the
(20:32):
goal is wherever you live, you should have access to
the same not just the care, but the after carrier survivorship.
We cure a lot of patients, but we want to
make sure we take care of them for their whole
lives and you know cancer survivorship. I mean you cure
a lot of your prostate cancer patients and they're going
to live twenty.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Thirty more years.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
We want to make sure we offer them the best
you know, after sure care and survivorship, and we want
to make sure that that is done where so that
the big focus on having you know, single standard of
excellence at any of our sites where you walk in,
and we made great strides in that and we want
to make it almost universal where there's absolutely no difference.
(21:13):
We want to build the more innovative programs. You know,
part of the great thing about being at NYU is there,
in addition to cancer, there is you know, amazing other
department that you make the radiology. You know, we're one
of the best radiology departments in the country, so we
want to partner with them to develop more innovative ways
to follow our cancer patients and to monitor response to treatments.
(21:37):
You know, we have the best neurosurgery department in the country,
and we want to make sure that we utilize that
expertise when we're treating you know, brain tremer, so a
lot of it. What we want to also develop is
sort of our intro organizational collaborations to expand the suite
of services that we offer. And then you know, one
of the sort of the long term visions is really
(21:58):
to build what we're calling molecular Oncology, which is a
program where we follow all of our patients by sequencing
tests like you mentioned, but makes us the standard of
care for all of our patients. And this is something
that we're actively trying to build right now.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Wow, that would be tremendous. That is tremendous, and I'm
sure that takes a tremendous teamwork. To do something like that.
That's what we have here at the Promoter Cancer Center.
And can you tell us a little bit about those
patients that have been treated and as you said, are
in remission and they're they're cured and now they're they're
they're living their lives. Do we have programs for those
(22:37):
patients like a survivorship program?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
How?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
How? What do we have for those patients at the
cancer center?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Yeah? That that the Promoter Cancer Center. We have fantastics
survivorship program that is exactly for what you're saying. Patients
go back to their normal lives and we have to
make sure we take care of them properly. So there's
you know, certain viabilitation programs to help with some of
the side up back the answer treatments. They're you know,
psychiatric or psychological therapy, you know, for patients to sort
(23:06):
of realize, you know, I'm cubed now I did and
I'm reintegrating into biety. Sometimes there's a lot of left
with that and be heard of that. And these are
programs that we offer throughout the entire Promoter Or Cancer
Center and you can find them on our PtD web
drive or about our survivorship program. It's a very important
aspect that you mentioned of cancer care.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Sure, you know, trying to you know, maintain an excellent
quality of life and nutrition and life work balance after
going through cancer therapy is so important for so many people.
And if you were treated, let's say you were treated
at another institution, could you still come into the cancer
center at this point and uh, you know, enter a
survivorship program or see one of our cancer doctors.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Always happy to follow. Uh, any cancer vacant that were cured,
cancer patient that wants to see up or it gets
back an opinion. But our survivorship program are outstanding in
anyone and welcome participated.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Terrific. Well, I want to thank you so much doctor Kimmelman,
who is the new director of the Laura and Isaac
Promuter Cancer Center at NYU. And if you've been listening
to the show, clearly we have an outstanding leader at
our cancer center, a comprehensive NCI designated cancer center, one
of the few in the country and only a few
in the metropolitan area. If you are interested in a
(24:25):
consultation with one of the members of the cancer center,
you can just go on to the web and check
out the Promoter Cancer center, and it's a very easy
way to navigate. And if you're already an NYU patient,
you've earned that through the my chart and through the
fake and the things that we were talking about early.
It's very easy to make your own appointment, even with
(24:45):
a new provider. You're really giving us a wonderful insight
into the cancer center. Alec. I really want to thank
you so much for coming on the show. I really
really appreciated and good luck to you. I know that
you're going to do just wonderful things for all of
us at the cancer center and for the thousands and
thousands of patients that we treat every year. Thank you
so much. I appreciate you adding it absolutely well. It's
(25:07):
into the show wherever we want. I hope you enjoyed it,
and we'll tune in every Sunday here on Katz's Corner.
We'll see you next week. Have a great day. This
is doctor Aaron Katz.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
You've been listening to Katz's Corner. Come back every week
to hear more straight talk on a wide range of
men's health topics and advice on how to live your
healthiest life.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
The proceeding was a paid podcast iHeartRadio's hosting of this
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the ideas expressed.
The following is a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The following program is brought to you by NYU Land
Going Health. It's Kats's Corner with doctor Aaron Kats. You're
trusted expert in men's health, providing straight talk on a
wide range of men's health topics and advice on how
to live your healthiest life. Now on seventy ten woor
It's the Chairman of Urology at NYU Land Gone Hospital,
(00:32):
Long Island. Here is doctor Aaron Katz.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, good morning everyone, and welcome again to Kansas Corner
here on war So glad you could join us this morning.
We have a wonderful show for you this morning. And
if you're a regular listener of Kats's Corner, you know
that we often talk about various areas of cancer, and
this morning I thought that we would talk about our
cancer center, the promoter Cancer Center at NYU And we
(01:00):
have a new leader, a new director of the cancer
center that I'm going to bring on as a wonderful
guest first time, first time here on Katz's Corner, Doctor
Alec Kimmelman, MD and PhD, who is now the director
of the Laura and Isaac Promoter Cancer Center. He also
holds other titles at NYU. He's the Professor and Chair
of Radiation Oncology and also Associate Dean of Cancer Research
(01:24):
at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine at NYU, and
he's published many, many articles extensively in the areas of
cancer and specifically in the area of pancreatic cancer. He
did lots of training at Mount Sinai here in New York,
and then subsequently he actually joined Harvard Medical School as
a clinical fellow and completed his training in radiation oncology
(01:47):
and the postdoctoral fellowship at the very prestigious Dana Farber
Cancer Center up in Boston. And he has really a
vibrant researcher. He's published a lot. His lab is published
so many articles in very prestigious journals, including journals like
Sell and Nature and Cancer Discovery and really some of
(02:09):
the top top cancer journals. And in twenty twenty one,
Alec Killman was named as one of the world's most
influential researchers and for recognition of authoring these types of
papers and really the top one percent in his field.
So ALEC, doctor Kimmeleman, thank you so much for joining
(02:30):
us and really look forward to hearing about your vision
and what's new at the Promoter Cancer Center. So thank
you and appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for
that very night for introduction. It's great to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, and since you joined the Promoter Cancer Center, which
is really one of the few cancer centers that is
designated by NIH to be a collaborative cancer center, maybe
you can tell our listeners what does that mean to
gain that kind of a status I designated comprehensive cancer
(03:03):
center because there aren't that many in the United States,
So maybe you can start out there.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I mean, it's one of it. It's a great point
and it's one of the main pantages of being at
fully integrated academic medical center. It's you know, the highest
honor that's a national cancer to give the cancer center.
And what it basically means is that you know, you
serve your catchment area, which are the patients who come
(03:28):
here your doors, in a variety of ways. You offer
them the most innovative care, access to the latest clinical trials,
important studies in terms of screening and cancer prevention at
a high level where the discoveries that we make in
our research laboratories can be translated back to serve our community.
(03:50):
And we also importantly the designation means we study certain
cancers whether disparity is different an incident is between different
ethnic groups or so through economic groups, and we work
to eliminate those disparities. So it is a group you know, uh,
not more, not many more than one per state in
New York has a couple, but that gets that not
(04:12):
only NTI designation which we have. We're comprehensive that.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, I mean that that certainly is a major achievement,
isn't it for for n y U? And I don't
know how many other medical or or medical centers in
the area have that designated three three in the city
really just three in the in the city. Yeah, and
you can imagine how many hospitals there are in New
York and the metropolitan area, uh, to be in the
(04:37):
three and that's really wonderful And as you mentioned, it
really does make a difference for patients out there and
achieve and you know, in just an access to care
no matter where you live in the in the boroughs
or even beyond UH. And also you mentioned the clinical
trials and what does that mean for people if they're
(04:58):
if they how do they know if they're eligible or
something for a for a clinical trial.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
That's a that's a great question. You know, many times,
you know in certain cancers, the best therapy for a
patient is a clinical trial certain answers, particularly where we
don't have the best outcomes. You know, the most innovative
and and novel therapies are offered to patients of a
clinical trial, which is essentially a way of testing a
new therapy that we believe based on previous either pre
(05:26):
clinical data, so data from the laboratory for early phase
UH patient studies that we believe it could be promising,
but we don't know, and we have the ability to
offer patients these clinical trials. To participate in them, you
have to see your physician and they'll go through you know,
the eligibility whether or not you're able to go on
(05:46):
the clinical trial. And then I'll spend a lot of
time talking to you about the risks and benefits of
a clinical trial for for your particular situation.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, you bring up an excellent point because you know,
many patients feel a clinical trial that's just for relapsed cancer,
but that's not really true, is it. I mean it
may be just for upfront cancer and getting the most
sophisticated and novel approaches to cancer. Would you agree.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
With that one hundred percent? I mean, their clinical trials
on the diagnosis, their clinical trials on following the cancer.
And as you mentioned in you know, early stage cancers,
frontline therapy a lot of times. What we're doing, and
I know you personally participated in some of the we're
trying to de escalate therapy to sort of see what
the the therapy that we can give that produces the
(06:36):
same or better curates but decreases the amount of side effects.
And I don't know, I think that's equally as important,
if not more, many patients.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
No, No, absolutely right, Yeah, I mean we are. You know,
I'm running a clinical trial now for patients with prostate
cancer with my colleagues doctor has and Radiation oncology to
see if we can not only reduce the amount of
time of radiation, but also for pays that have a
little bit higher risk cancer that we'd get a standard
type of treatment that we're hormones treatment that we may
(07:06):
have more side effects. We're using this new oral medication
in combination with radiation and finding Wow, it's phenomenal. It's
targeted to the cancer cell. It doesn't give you the
lowering of the testosterone and the other side effects that
people can have. So it really has been rather remarkable
and one of the first for me anyway, clinical trials
(07:27):
that I've been running is an upfront therapy and it
really has been quite impressive. So I appreciate your thoughts
on that. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Now, I mean that there's so many patients for their
early stage disease and we want to make sure we're
not you know, overtreating them as we're referring to, and
the only way to understand that is through a clinical trial.
So sometimes they apply to very advanced disease where we
don't have any other therapy to offer but experimental therapy
than other times that in early stage what we do
very well, but we want to now do you the better.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, And you know, I was reading your bio and
certainly you've done a tremendous amount of work in the
area of a of a cancer that we all when
we hear about it pancreatic cancer. When we hear that
that term, you know, it's like, oh god, doom and
gloom and oh wow, you know it's Uh, someone has
pancreatic cancer. You know, how long do they have?
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:15):
And Uh, you've done tremendous work in your lab. What
what do you see there? Is the is the future
or even now? Have you seen any new discoveries in
this particular area of cancer.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yeah, I mean, it still remains one of the toughest
cancers that that we faid, although you know, we have
made you know, significant improvements. When I first started, there
were really no effective therapy, but now we have you know,
multiple demote therapeutic agents that you know, show promised and
the disease and prolonged survival. So they're definitely a lot
more hope, you know. I think it's a multi pronged
(08:49):
approach in this these you know, one is we don't
discover it until late in the treatment, late in its course.
So oftentimes by the time we discover the disease, the
patients are incurable. And so there's all huge effort going
on here and many other places to try and detect
the cancer early when it's matured by surgery, and then
(09:10):
you know, it's also to figure out how to make
advance the deeds respond to better, and we're trying to
do all sorts of things. We're trying to cut off
the tumor fuel sources by understanding you know, what it
uses to grow and survive. We're trying to harness the
immune system to attack the tumor where and we're trying
to find new targeted agents to treat the the deeds.
(09:34):
So it's it's an exciting time in the field. There's
been a lot of advances that you know where we're
we're playing a particular part in, but more to come.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, absolutely, and through more of the research, like what
you're doing in your lab, I will certainly translate into
new hope for patients. I mean, in my own career,
what I've seen is the explosion of something that I
never thought I would see, or is the approach to
you using immune therapy now the whole shield it seems
to have exploded with thankfully through research immune approaches to
(10:09):
cancer therapies and learning about the strategies and using sometimes
combination of immune therapies too. In combination, as you said,
with either surgery or instead of maybe chemotherapy which may
have more side effects, and using our own bodies immune
system to kind of trick the cancer, if you will,
really has made a big impact. And wow, that would
(10:32):
be tremendous. That is tremendous, and I'm sure that takes
a tremendous teamwork to do something like that. But that's
what we have here at the Promoter Cancer Center. If
you just wake it up in the morning, here in
Kancer's Corner, we're talking with doctor Alec Kimmelman, who is
now the director of the Laura and Isaac Promoter Cancer
Center and Professor and Chair of Radiation Oncology and the
(10:53):
Associate Dean of Cancer Research at the NYU Grossman School
of Medicine at NYU. And if you're listening, you can
tell that the he is leading an enormous cancer center
here in New York area.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah, we you know, it's exactly as you said. It's
it's it's a revolution right now in terms of what
we've been able to do with immunotherapy. You know, for
a while the fields wasn't making that much progress, and
then there were some profound discoveries what's called the mute
checkpoint blockade, which stumps the the you know, the immune
self from shutting down when they are attacking the tumor
(11:28):
and reversing. That has really led to a lot of responses.
We've been fortunate here to be you know, at the forefront,
at the promoter cauntra status, the forefront both and the
basic science and translational science, but also the clinical science.
UH Jeff Weber, our deputy director, led the one of
the first clinical trials using the Maderna RNA vaccine and
(11:49):
mRNA vaccine to personalize immune therapy for a particular patients
tumor in melanoma. And that trial showed a huge promise.
It was a randomized trial, though they're now going to
make a much larger trial to confirm it. But there's
a lot going on and we're very excited.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Wow, that that's phenomenal and that that's in melanoma, did you.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Say, yeah? Yeah. And they took the patient's tumor and
they speak with them and figured out which personalized antigen
would be important in their particular patients tumor. They made
a custom mRNA back then for each patient and combine
that with checkpoint BLOCKI.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Wow, I mean that's I mean, we're talking about personalized medicine.
You know, we in my own field in urology, I'm
thinking we're doing more of the genomic testing to say, well,
not everybody's prostate cancer looks the same. Uh, you know,
under the microscope it may look the same, but if
you do the genomics on someone and you look into
their DNA, it may be different. And we're giving them
(12:47):
more personalized you know, therapy. But here you're talking about
a personalized approach and strategy to the kill cancer, which
and a therapy which is remarkable and I had heard
about that. But congratulations to the yes, yeah, to to
take out a piece of the tumor and sequence that
(13:08):
you're saying and then develop a vaccine against it. Is that?
Is that what you're saying? Pretty much?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Yeap. So they do, they do the genomic sequence thing
on the on a piece of the tumor, and they
you know, they have these algorithms to try and predict
which would be the most important you know, tumor antigen
and then because of that, you know, as we all know,
the m r N a vaccine technology which exploded during COVID.
You can rapidly produce you know, personalize the vaccine, and
it was very exciting. It showed a lot of promise,
(13:36):
and people are now trying to broaden the other types
of cancer.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Do you think that will they'll there'll be a day
soon that we'll see that for you know, for CAM.
I mean, I wonder do you think that certainly we
have remarkable surgeons at at the hospital that are able
to cure people, but for the advanced stage disease where
surgery is no longer maybe not indicated immediately. Let's say
(14:01):
maybe down the line it might be, but to put
patients in a remission first, rather than using the old
approaches of chemotherapy, that this might be an approach to
someone has an advanced disease. Maybe we give them a vaccine,
get them in remission, and then go ahead and remove
the primary tumor, whether it be in the you know, breast,
(14:23):
the colon, prostate or you know, kidney whatever.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
I think that's right. I mean, I think the advantage
of the immune system has is that, you know, chemotherapy
only works when you give it, but you know, the
immune system its basically a constant attack on the tumor,
so you really can get you know, potentially signfficulty more response.
And I think what you're saying is one hundred percent correct,
(14:46):
where if we can, even in a more advanced disease,
get the tumor to the point where it's actually respectable,
you could potentially cure more patients. We played a role
on a a national trial that was co led by
my Felf and Dave Ryan at the Math General Hospital
and pack Griff Cancer, where that was the goal and
(15:07):
was to take patients and pack RIfS cancer will unrespectable,
use a combination of novel biological therapies to drink it
enough where the surgeons could go in and reflect the
patient potentially procured. I think that paradigm, as you're saying,
will hopefully get more and more prevalent if you.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Just wake it up in the morning. Here in Kansas Corner,
we're talking with doctor Alec Kimmelman, who is now the
director of the Laura and Isaac Promot of Cancer Center
and Professor and Chair of Radiation Oncology and the Associate
Dean of Cancer Research at the NYU Grossman School of
Medicine at NYU. And really, if you're listening, you can
tell that he is leading an enormous cancer center here
(15:49):
in New York area. We heard that the comprehensive cancer
center status is just available for just right now, only
just a few hospitals, only three in the metropolitan area.
YU has the Promuter Cancer Center, and all this research
is going on for patients Dr Kimmelman that are listening
and they're wondering, well, you know, do I need to
(16:09):
go to the city to get access to this promoter
cancer care or if I'm living in let's say, Brooklyn
or Long Island or Queen's or Staten Island, you know,
how do patients need to come to that hub or
are there outreach you know, centers along all these communities.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
It's actually, you know, a great, a great question. And
as you know, one of the things that we've taken
a big amount of pride end that you could get
the quality of care that you would, you know, anywhere
in the Promuter Cancer vetor. So if you live on
Long Island, you can go to NYU Long Island, which
is part of the comprehensive that there and offer the
things we have services and outstanding clinical care and in fact,
(16:53):
almost all the clinical trial that we offer in Manhattan
are also offered at Long Islands, and we have you know,
another fantastic hospital in NYU Brooklyn and Stunt That Park.
We have a cancer center there which had outstanding clinical care,
and we are in the process of trying to open
all the thing clinical trials we have here there. So
the goal is basically that you do not have to
come into Manhattan to get the family exact standard of
(17:17):
care wherever you live. And I think that's important because
we don't want patients to have to you know, drive
long difference during a very tough period.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, and beyond just cancer care, I mean,
I'm just thinking about things that we on Long Island
don't do that the city does, which is mainly kidney
transplants and heart transplants, pancre and type of transplant and
so patients are evaluated and then if they need a transplant,
they go to the city, but then they can be
taken care of out here because we have all these
(17:47):
doctors that are specialized. Now they can take care of
patients after transplant. And you know, most of the clinical
trials I think that you've mentioned are available, you know,
in different areas beyond just Manhattan. Some of the more
complicated ones certainly do require expertise to go to the
city for those you know, novel and unique ones that
(18:09):
are really you know, just a little bit more complex.
But most of the clinical trials you know that we
run out here, we're you know, mirroring the ones in
the city. And you're absolutely right. And if a patient
gets an MRI or a cat scan here on Long Island,
it's read by the hub of excellent radiologists in the city.
That because I tell patients, you know that they need
(18:30):
an MRI of the prostate, you got to go to
NYU because and no matter where you get it, it'll
be read in the city, and it'll be read by
a team of people that are professional that are doing
this twenty four to seven reading these these types of images.
So it really does, you know, escalate the standard of
care for and the access of care to all people.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
I mean, it's one of it's a great point and
it's one of the main adpathages that being at fully
integrated academic medical center, where as you know, the medical record,
all the MRIs, everything is all in one system. Yes,
and wherever you go you the differen't have access. Then
I think it's a really spectful thing that you know,
(19:13):
if you get your care in Brooklyn, but you happened
to be visiting family on Long Island, then public happened
you would you have to go to the emergency room
at NYU Long Island. They have a copy of all
your medical records. They electronically are in touch with your
your regular position, and you know, it allowed for much
moother hare.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Incredible, incredible, all your medications, your allergies, your history, your
surgical history. It's no longer the days of looking for
the charts. You know, your mouth those days, you know,
looking for the paper charts. And it's as you said,
it doesn't any of the facilities that you go to
at n YU. They're even opening up offices, you know,
down in Florida. And it doesn't matter no matter where
(19:53):
you go. It's it's part of the epic system. And
it really does make a tremendous difference. So I know
you just taken on this position, you know, recently, to
be the director of this wonderful and prestigious promoter cancer center.
You know, what do you think is your your vision
now for for the future, for the for the cancer center.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Some of it is what we talked about which is
the ultimate goal is that every single clinical trial and
every single facet of care is this all of our
And we've made a lot of progress. As you said,
NYU Long Island has almost all of the clinical trials,
but you know there are some other hospitals like our
Brooklyn Hospital, which we have a little bit of work
to do. It's something we're very focused on because the
(20:32):
goal is wherever you live, you should have access to
the same not just the care, but the after carrier survivorship.
We cure a lot of patients, but we want to
make sure we take care of them for their whole
lives and you know cancer survivorship. I mean you cure
a lot of your prostate cancer patients and they're going
to live twenty.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Thirty more years.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
We want to make sure we offer them the best
you know, after sure care and survivorship, and we want
to make sure that that is done where so that
the big focus on having you know, single standard of
excellence at any of our sites where you walk in,
and we made great strides in that and we want
to make it almost universal where there's absolutely no difference.
(21:13):
We want to build the more innovative programs. You know,
part of the great thing about being at NYU is there,
in addition to cancer, there is you know, amazing other
department that you make the radiology. You know, we're one
of the best radiology departments in the country, so we
want to partner with them to develop more innovative ways
to follow our cancer patients and to monitor response to treatments.
(21:37):
You know, we have the best neurosurgery department in the country,
and we want to make sure that we utilize that
expertise when we're treating you know, brain tremer, so a
lot of it. What we want to also develop is
sort of our intro organizational collaborations to expand the suite
of services that we offer. And then you know, one
of the sort of the long term visions is really
(21:58):
to build what we're calling molecular Oncology, which is a
program where we follow all of our patients by sequencing
tests like you mentioned, but makes us the standard of
care for all of our patients. And this is something
that we're actively trying to build right now.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Wow, that would be tremendous. That is tremendous, and I'm
sure that takes a tremendous teamwork. To do something like that.
That's what we have here at the Promoter Cancer Center.
And can you tell us a little bit about those
patients that have been treated and as you said, are
in remission and they're they're cured and now they're they're
they're living their lives. Do we have programs for those
(22:37):
patients like a survivorship program?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
How?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
How? What do we have for those patients at the
cancer center?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Yeah? That that the Promoter Cancer Center. We have fantastics
survivorship program that is exactly for what you're saying. Patients
go back to their normal lives and we have to
make sure we take care of them properly. So there's
you know, certain viabilitation programs to help with some of
the side up back the answer treatments. They're you know,
psychiatric or psychological therapy, you know, for patients to sort
(23:06):
of realize, you know, I'm cubed now I did and
I'm reintegrating into biety. Sometimes there's a lot of left
with that and be heard of that. And these are
programs that we offer throughout the entire Promoter Or Cancer
Center and you can find them on our PtD web
drive or about our survivorship program. It's a very important
aspect that you mentioned of cancer care.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Sure, you know, trying to you know, maintain an excellent
quality of life and nutrition and life work balance after
going through cancer therapy is so important for so many people.
And if you were treated, let's say you were treated
at another institution, could you still come into the cancer
center at this point and uh, you know, enter a
survivorship program or see one of our cancer doctors.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Always happy to follow. Uh, any cancer vacant that were cured,
cancer patient that wants to see up or it gets
back an opinion. But our survivorship program are outstanding in
anyone and welcome participated.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Terrific. Well, I want to thank you so much doctor Kimmelman,
who is the new director of the Laura and Isaac
Promuter Cancer Center at NYU. And if you've been listening
to the show, clearly we have an outstanding leader at
our cancer center, a comprehensive NCI designated cancer center, one
of the few in the country and only a few
in the metropolitan area. If you are interested in a
(24:25):
consultation with one of the members of the cancer center,
you can just go on to the web and check
out the Promoter Cancer center, and it's a very easy
way to navigate. And if you're already an NYU patient,
you've earned that through the my chart and through the
fake and the things that we were talking about early.
It's very easy to make your own appointment, even with
(24:45):
a new provider. You're really giving us a wonderful insight
into the cancer center. Alec. I really want to thank
you so much for coming on the show. I really
really appreciated and good luck to you. I know that
you're going to do just wonderful things for all of
us at the cancer center and for the thousands and
thousands of patients that we treat every year. Thank you
so much. I appreciate you adding it absolutely well. It's
(25:07):
into the show wherever we want. I hope you enjoyed it,
and we'll tune in every Sunday here on Katz's Corner.
We'll see you next week. Have a great day. This
is doctor Aaron Katz.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
You've been listening to Katz's Corner. Come back every week
to hear more straight talk on a wide range of
men's health topics and advice on how to live your
healthiest life.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
The proceeding was a paid podcast iHeartRadio's hosting of this
podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the products offered or
the ideas expressed.
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