Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In House Intelligent Committee ranking chair member Jim Hines, joining
the NSA Security Advisor Mike Waltz and CIA Director John
Ratcliffe and publicly acknowledging that President Trump's pause on assistance
to Ukraine, including intelligence sharing.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm stated the critical importance of the US intelligence relationship
with Ukraine when holding a line against Russia's relentless and
brutal offensive, and that any pause and intelligence sharing must
end immediately. Joining us now on the KWA Common Spirit
Health Hotline to talk more about it is Defense reporter
for Politico.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's Jack Dutch. Jack, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
As always, Well, let's start by just giving an overview
of what type of intelligence sharing was the US providing
to Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
To begin with, Well, it's across the board, Jane. So
you look at the US providing intelligence to help Ukraine's
air defense, for early warning for Russian ballistic missile strikes,
for Russian drone strikes that are coming almost nightly on
Ukrainian cities, and of course for some offensive targeting, certainly
(00:59):
in that Kursk pocket where the Ukrainians were going forward
and trying to get some more leverage at the bargaining table,
and of course there are offensive strikes behind Russian lines
that of course in occupied Ukraine, in the Donbas and
other areas, a lot of that seems to be paused.
(01:19):
There may be some limited exceptions for defensive although the
administration hasn't articulated them. But this really does feel like
a gut punch from Ukrainian officials I've talked to from
people in Europe, because of course the Europeans can backfill
a lot of the heavy metal, they can backfill some
of the artillery, some of the tanks. These are things
(01:40):
that are built indigenously and within Europe. The things that
they don't have are satellite constellations in the same number
that the United States does in boutique intelligence capabilities. So
this is really hitting the Ukrainians.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Where it hurts.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You wrote a nice article about it on politico Jacket.
What is the strategic If there is strategic or any
kind of logic for the US doing this.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Well, certainly this brings the Ukrainians to heal. If you're
the Trump administration and you're hoping to get a peace deal,
it's something that you know could lead to a pause
in the fighting. Potentially that could be the logic. Of course,
the other side of this is this could give the
Russians an advantage. We haven't seen the Russians commit to
(02:26):
sitting down at the negotiating table yet, so this could
give them an advantage to continue to try and break
the lines in the dawnbas in the East. So that's
sort of the tricky thing of this is it's something
that could tip the balance right now at a time
when the battle lines are quite precarious.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Going off of that, Jack, does surveillance or intelligence gathering
cost a large amount of money?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Is money an issue in this situation?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
These are assets that.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
The United States would typically have up in the sky regardless.
I mean you're talking about satellite assets that are over Europe.
It just depends on where you target them and where
you put your eyeballs. So of course there is an
opportunity cost, right if you're somebody within the administration, within government,
within Washington that wants to move US assets away from Europe,
(03:17):
away from Ukraine and towards the Asia Pacific. You know,
you only have so many satellite orbits, so many drone orbits,
so many rivit joint planes that you can fly at
any given time, So it is something that is a
bit of a one for one when you look at
US priorities. So perhaps this is something as the administration
(03:39):
is also looking at a wider review of US troop
presence in Europe. Something they're saying, we need to move
more of these assets to the Asia Pacific if there's
a conflict there with China.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Would this have happened regardless of what happened last Friday
in the White House? Was this already in the cards
the US making a move like this or contemplating it.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
That's what the administration is saying publicly. Kellogg came out
yesterday saying that he'd already warned the Ukrainians when he
took a trip to Kiev late in February. So it
does seem like it was certainly in the works to
some degree. Of course, we can't discount the blow up
here though between Trump and Zelensky and just what we've
(04:20):
seen from the administration, the public talking point about the
desire to have an election during wartime to potentially replace Thelnsky,
even though of course there's a prohibition in the Ukrainian
constitution from doing that. Politico has been reporting as well that.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
The Trump administrations some top advisors, some folks close to
Trump have been meeting with allies to the Ukrainian opposition,
people like Yulia Timoshenko who may run against Olimsky, potentially
no Hope candidates, not people that are popular.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Within the Ukrainian body politics. But it does just show
you the extent of the rupture, the frustration within the
Trump administration, and perhaps an indication that they're looking to
work with somebody else here.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Jack with the minute we have left.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I've seen that people have called this temporary, But is
it temporary in a timeline of well, it's temporary until
negotiations are on the table, or what could happen? Is
this more of a permanent halting of sharing intelligence.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
What Trump administration officials have indicated is it's temporary until
they can get the minerals deal with the Ukrainians. Now,
maybe that could mean the Trump administration is trying to
leverage a better deal for more of the profits in
American eyes. We'll see. Certainly there's a hope that that
deal could be signed as early as next week. Ukrainian
(05:44):
officials are looking to come to Washington and a delegation
that could include Zelensky's top aid Andrew Yermak. So that's
something to look out for, whether the US is trying
to apply more leverage to get more out of this
minerals deal that's been on the table, and then of
course blew up last Friday during the fight between Zelinsky,
Vance and Trump. Quickly Russia's reaction to all this, Russia
(06:07):
is still, you know, obviously biding its time. They can
wait this out. They haven't gotten the negotiating table yet,
so you have to imagine they're liking this at the Kremlin.
If Ukraine has fewer resources to fight right now.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Defense reporter for Politico it's Jack Dutch
In House Intelligent Committee ranking chair member Jim Hines, joining
the NSA Security Advisor Mike Waltz and CIA Director John
Ratcliffe and publicly acknowledging that President Trump's pause on assistance
to Ukraine, including intelligence sharing.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm stated the critical importance of the US intelligence relationship
with Ukraine when holding a line against Russia's relentless and
brutal offensive, and that any pause and intelligence sharing must
end immediately. Joining us now on the KWA Common Spirit
Health Hotline to talk more about it is Defense reporter
for Politico.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's Jack Dutch. Jack, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
As always, Well, let's start by just giving an overview
of what type of intelligence sharing was the US providing
to Ukraine.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
To begin with, Well, it's across the board, Jane. So
you look at the US providing intelligence to help Ukraine's
air defense, for early warning for Russian ballistic missile strikes,
for Russian drone strikes that are coming almost nightly on
Ukrainian cities, and of course for some offensive targeting, certainly
(00:59):
in that Kursk pocket where the Ukrainians were going forward
and trying to get some more leverage at the bargaining table,
and of course there are offensive strikes behind Russian lines
that of course in occupied Ukraine, in the Donbas and
other areas, a lot of that seems to be paused.
(01:19):
There may be some limited exceptions for defensive although the
administration hasn't articulated them. But this really does feel like
a gut punch from Ukrainian officials I've talked to from
people in Europe, because of course the Europeans can backfill
a lot of the heavy metal, they can backfill some
of the artillery, some of the tanks. These are things
(01:40):
that are built indigenously and within Europe. The things that
they don't have are satellite constellations in the same number
that the United States does in boutique intelligence capabilities. So
this is really hitting the Ukrainians.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Where it hurts.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You wrote a nice article about it on politico Jacket.
What is the strategic If there is strategic or any
kind of logic for the US doing this.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Well, certainly this brings the Ukrainians to heal. If you're
the Trump administration and you're hoping to get a peace deal,
it's something that you know could lead to a pause
in the fighting. Potentially that could be the logic. Of course,
the other side of this is this could give the
Russians an advantage. We haven't seen the Russians commit to
(02:26):
sitting down at the negotiating table yet, so this could
give them an advantage to continue to try and break
the lines in the dawnbas in the East. So that's
sort of the tricky thing of this is it's something
that could tip the balance right now at a time
when the battle lines are quite precarious.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Going off of that, Jack, does surveillance or intelligence gathering
cost a large amount of money?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Is money an issue in this situation?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
These are assets that.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
The United States would typically have up in the sky regardless.
I mean you're talking about satellite assets that are over Europe.
It just depends on where you target them and where
you put your eyeballs. So of course there is an
opportunity cost, right if you're somebody within the administration, within government,
within Washington that wants to move US assets away from Europe,
(03:17):
away from Ukraine and towards the Asia Pacific. You know,
you only have so many satellite orbits, so many drone orbits,
so many rivit joint planes that you can fly at
any given time, So it is something that is a
bit of a one for one when you look at
US priorities. So perhaps this is something as the administration
(03:39):
is also looking at a wider review of US troop
presence in Europe. Something they're saying, we need to move
more of these assets to the Asia Pacific if there's
a conflict there with China.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Would this have happened regardless of what happened last Friday
in the White House? Was this already in the cards
the US making a move like this or contemplating it.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
That's what the administration is saying publicly. Kellogg came out
yesterday saying that he'd already warned the Ukrainians when he
took a trip to Kiev late in February. So it
does seem like it was certainly in the works to
some degree. Of course, we can't discount the blow up
here though between Trump and Zelensky and just what we've
(04:20):
seen from the administration, the public talking point about the
desire to have an election during wartime to potentially replace Thelnsky,
even though of course there's a prohibition in the Ukrainian
constitution from doing that. Politico has been reporting as well that.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
The Trump administrations some top advisors, some folks close to
Trump have been meeting with allies to the Ukrainian opposition,
people like Yulia Timoshenko who may run against Olimsky, potentially
no Hope candidates, not people that are popular.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Within the Ukrainian body politics. But it does just show
you the extent of the rupture, the frustration within the
Trump administration, and perhaps an indication that they're looking to
work with somebody else here.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Jack with the minute we have left.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I've seen that people have called this temporary, But is
it temporary in a timeline of well, it's temporary until
negotiations are on the table, or what could happen? Is
this more of a permanent halting of sharing intelligence.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
What Trump administration officials have indicated is it's temporary until
they can get the minerals deal with the Ukrainians. Now,
maybe that could mean the Trump administration is trying to
leverage a better deal for more of the profits in
American eyes. We'll see. Certainly there's a hope that that
deal could be signed as early as next week. Ukrainian
(05:44):
officials are looking to come to Washington and a delegation
that could include Zelensky's top aid Andrew Yermak. So that's
something to look out for, whether the US is trying
to apply more leverage to get more out of this
minerals deal that's been on the table, and then of
course blew up last Friday during the fight between Zelinsky,
Vance and Trump. Quickly Russia's reaction to all this, Russia
(06:07):
is still, you know, obviously biding its time. They can
wait this out. They haven't gotten the negotiating table yet,
so you have to imagine they're liking this at the Kremlin.
If Ukraine has fewer resources to fight right now.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Defense reporter for Politico it's Jack Dutch
Popular Podcasts
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.