03 25 25 Megachurch Pastor turned Cartel Drug Runner John Lee Bishop and his story

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
John Lee Bishop's The Church of Living Dangerously. It's a
book recounting John's unbelievably true story as a former megachurch
pastor who ended up running drugs for the Sineloa cartel.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Joining us now on the KWA Commons Spirit Health Hotline
to talk more about it, the author and John Lee
Bishop himself. John, thank you so much for your time
this morning.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Welcome Gina.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
How are you doing well? Thank you so much. I
obviously this is detailed, very, very in depth when it
comes to this book, So it's hard to do a
brief summary of exactly how you go from that because
people hear that statement and go, how does one go
from being a pastor of a megachurch to all of
a sudden being arrested at the Mexican border? Where did
you really see your path and life going when it

(00:41):
went from one polar opposite to the other.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
You know, I can't really effectively answer that question I've
asked myself. In fact, I've had more US marshals in
courtrooms asked me that very question. And gin know, I
think I think I put my hope in what I
was doing for God more than what God was trying
to do. For me and in me, and my identity

(01:08):
was in more in my activity for him. And I
would say that that is where things got off and
and I just probably honestly found myself and found God
in a very real way when I was in.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Prison, John, where was that crossover point when you went
for that? Was it an interaction, a meeting with somebody
to say you could do this for us or be
a participant in this.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
So my wife and I good question, Thank you, Marty.
My wife and I had a house in Cabos and Lucas,
and so we were down there often in you know,
ten years prior, and I had a friend that was
a taxi driver and I when I lost my job pastoring,

(01:59):
I couldn't find work and didn't like time shares, and
one thing led to another and then it was like,
well we can And I wouldn't do anything. Here's a
weird thing about criminal behavior. I would not traffic or
bring across the border heroin, but I was very comfortable

(02:21):
bringing across the border marijuana. And that's I said, yeah,
because yes, because it was at that point it was
an absolute thing of survival, at least it felt like
at the time. I looked back and say that statement.
That sounds really stupid to say it, but that was

(02:42):
my rationalization.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
And John the opening of the book really paints that
picture of driving the vehicle across the border with just
loads and loads of marijuana strapped and hidden in any
which way possible in order before you're arrested in this situation.
When you look at this book, I know it's got
to be chancelenging for you to even just write down
and just paint a picture of what you went through.

(03:05):
But what lessons do you think you learned through the
darkest times of your life?

Speaker 3 (03:14):
You know, that's a maybe the most profound question I've
been asked in several interviews. I would say the most
the biggest lesson that I've learned is that God has
been with me every single step of the way, even
when I did not feel his presence or could not

(03:36):
see his presence, I look back knowing He was with
me in the darkest, deepest valleys that I went through,
which were from the arrest with the cartel, but from
the arrest forward, in five different prisons and two riots

(03:57):
and different times like that, that God never ever, it's
easy to read it, it's easy to study about it
in a seminary, but to really know that God is
really with you when you don't feel like you want
to be with yourself. What's the biggest lesson I ever learned?

Speaker 1 (04:15):
John? Final question from us, and we appreciate your time.
This is a bit of a tangent to what Ginas said,
but one of the takeaways I get from this, and
not just necessarily this story, it's how we rationalize things.
And I'm just curious, is this in part is your story?
A part of it too, that with faith and religion
and in the name of such that people can rationalize

(04:36):
whatever behavior thinking that, well, it's God or God is
on my side and I'm doing this in the name
of God. Is there a little bit of concern or
thoughts in that as well? When we see whatever somebody
does but feels like, well, if I've got God or
I'm a faithful person, it justifies that action.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
I would say, for me, no, that I was never
under the assumption or false illusion that that I, uh,
I mean to rationalize is just a rational life. And
for me, I didn't feel that I knew that. I
was more like Jonah running as far as I could
get away from God's call. In my life, and and

(05:21):
I think that I put more. I put more hope
in friends than I did in God. I put more.
It was almost as if they were my God. Like.
I idolized friendship more than my relationship with God. That

(05:41):
would have been the rational rationalization of my life, that
I do anything for a friend. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
His book is titled The Church of Living Dangerously Tales
of a drug running megachurch pastor. It's John Lee. Bishop John,
thank you so much for sharing your story. Appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
You're welcome to jum