Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is Colorado's Morning News, Marty Lens Gina gondec In morning.
(00:02):
Beginning Wednesday, the highly secret, of highly traditional process of
picking the next Pope begins and.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Joining us now on the KWA Common Spirit Health Hotline
live from the Vatican as Fox News contributor and host
of the iHeart Arroyo Grande Broadcast. It's Raymond Arroyo. Raymond,
thank you so much for your time this morning. We
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I'm happy to be with you, Gina.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Now, this is the third conclave you've covered. What if
anything you're seeing right now with the preparations at the
Vatican are different or similar than the ones you've seen
in the past, or are they baked in such tradition
that they're all very similar?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, the externals, the ritual is always the same. I mean,
you have the death of the pope, nine days of mourning,
then these daily meetings the bishops have been a part of.
Cardinals rather have been a part of since the death
of Pope Francis. And really the business of choosing the
next pope began when the last pope died. Because what
happens is cardinals come to Rome, they meet and greet
(00:59):
each other. I'll tell you what's different. These cardinals don't
know each other. Every year, traditionally, the Pope invites the
College of Cardinals back to Rome to consult with him
on various matters and to just get together, so they're
familiar with each other. The type of men you're dealing with,
their feelings, their agenda, where they come from in the world,
(01:20):
and what they bring to the faith. Well, these cardinals
are deprived that. First of all, Pope frances chose men
from far flong parts of the world. Okay, so they
have very little familiarity with Rome. Secondly, these men don't
know each other because about ten years ago, Pope Francis
had a Family Senate where he wanted to kind of
remake and revisit Catholic doctrine visa vis the family marriage,
(01:44):
divorced and remarried people, and he didn't like the feedback
he got from the College of Cardinals. So guess what,
no more College of Cardinals meetings. He just did away
with them. So this college has not met. These one
hundred and thirty three electors have not met in over
ten years, and a good chunk of them, I would
say about maybe forty of them were chosen in between
(02:06):
that period, so they are really out in the dark.
So they not only don't know the other older cardinals,
but the older cardinals don't know them. So there's a
lot of confusion. As I told somebody the other day,
it's a bunch of disoriented journalists covering a bunch of
disoriented cardinals. It's not a pretty scene, Raymond.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
You know, you could, I guess you could say that
Francis was a seismic shift in religious doctrine or sort
of at least direction of the Catholic Church. Do you
get a sense it's going to continue along that path
based on everything you say, because it seems like the
cardinals have very disparate interests coming from disparate parts of
the world. Or do you see it recalibrating, for lack
of a better term, to what people perceive or at
(02:48):
least here in America want a more conservative church.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Well, there are two answers to this one. Yes, there
is a faction here in Rome and in places like
Germany and other parts of the Church that would like
to continue the Francis line. Pope Francis did a point
seventy eight percent of the cardinals going into this conclave.
One hundred and eight of the one hundred and thirty
three men he chose. Okay, but here's the wild card.
(03:15):
They are not his ideological copies. They're not carbon copies
of him in any way because of where they hail from.
You know, they have very different appetites in Africa and
parts of Asia. In India, there are things that are
just foreboding. I mean divorce, you don't get divorced in
certain parts of the world. The idea of of you know, LGBT, right,
(03:36):
this is completely foreign in Africa. So those cardinals will
bring with them the cultural understanding that will impact their choice.
And I think I think we're going to see a change.
You know, the traditional saying in Rome is after a
fat pope comes a thin pope, and I think that's
what we're looking at here. I think you will see
(03:57):
a departure from the trajectory. Pope Francis wanted his whole
Sonotyl church, bringing in outsiders, atheists and you know, nuns
and young people to decide on doctrine and getting an
equal vote with a cardinal. Well, if Jesus had one
that I wanted that he would have invited all the
disciples along and given them the keys to the Kingdom
(04:20):
of Heaven. He didn't do that. He brought the twelve
in and said, Peter, you're the rock of this thing.
So they're here to choose a successor to the Apostle Peter.
And that is a very serious and weighty thing, and
I think it will have wide ranging consequences. And my
sense is there'll be a return at least attacked toward tradition.
(04:43):
If not a traditional conservative pope, they'll be. This will
be moderated. That's my guess, Raymond.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
With the time, we have left two part question for you.
One did you see Conclaves? And two how accurate is
it to the process of what we will see on Wednesday?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
And everybody asked, you know, I interviewed Edward Berger and
Russolini and Race Finds when that movie came out, and
they called me up because I think they kind of
wanted an endorsement. So I sat through the movie. I
didn't interview with him, and I have to say I
found it tedious. But there are parts of the ritual
that they do get right. The swearing before Michaelangelo's last judgment,
(05:23):
which is you know, you can imagine you look up
and there there are literally popes and cardinals He's got
in hell written on that wall, okay, painted on that wall,
some of whom he knew. When they look up at
that last judgment and make that bow that you know
I'm making this, you know, in concert with Jesus, and
you know, swear that this is what I'm being called
to do. So that part is right. The running the
(05:44):
needle through the ballots, that's correct. And burning of obviously
the ballots and the smoke that's all great. Uh. The
ba the backdrop in some of the intrigues is a
little melodramatic. It's like, you know, it's like the little
foxes at the Vatican. It's I found it kind of
came being silly. I mean, I wish people were as
outspoken as some of those cardinals, you know, so brazen
(06:04):
with their beliefs and what they believe. That's part of
the problem. It's very hard to read the room now
because cardinals don't tell you what they're thinking. They speak
in vagaries, they speak in riddles. You know, it's church speak,
and it's to protect their you know, what their true
agenda is. And we won't know that till the man
comes out on the loggio and has the you know,
the wife outfit on, then you'll figure him out. But
(06:28):
so Conclave got some things right. The most upsetting thing
to me is it trades on the very So it's
trading on the traditions and the deep, powerful rituals of
the church picked up over to millennia. And then the
argument ultimately to get rid of all those traditions, that
we need a pope who's not who doesn't have faith
(06:49):
but has doubt is held up as the cardinal virtue. Well,
this is absurd. So I hate the heart of the movie.
I hate the message of the movie. I despise the
ending of the movie, which is really silly. I won't
run it for your listeners, but I wish I could,
And I don't know. I found it all to be.
It's it's abusing the externals of the church to try
(07:09):
to undermine the church. I don't mind them making an
argument like that, but then don't attack. Don't use the
things that are most attractive, which is the ritual and tradition,
to undermine the church's ritual and tradition.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
He is the host of the Royal Grande Podcast on
the Heart Podcast Network. It's Raymond Arroyo.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Thank you, Raymond all happy to do it, and I'll
let you know when the white smoke goes
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Up beautiful, Thanks so much,
It is Colorado's Morning News, Marty Lens Gina gondec In morning.
(00:02):
Beginning Wednesday, the highly secret, of highly traditional process of
picking the next Pope begins and.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Joining us now on the KWA Common Spirit Health Hotline
live from the Vatican as Fox News contributor and host
of the iHeart Arroyo Grande Broadcast. It's Raymond Arroyo. Raymond,
thank you so much for your time this morning. We
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I'm happy to be with you, Gina.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Now, this is the third conclave you've covered. What if
anything you're seeing right now with the preparations at the
Vatican are different or similar than the ones you've seen
in the past, or are they baked in such tradition
that they're all very similar?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Well, the externals, the ritual is always the same. I mean,
you have the death of the pope, nine days of mourning,
then these daily meetings the bishops have been a part of.
Cardinals rather have been a part of since the death
of Pope Francis. And really the business of choosing the
next pope began when the last pope died. Because what
happens is cardinals come to Rome, they meet and greet
(00:59):
each other. I'll tell you what's different. These cardinals don't
know each other. Every year, traditionally, the Pope invites the
College of Cardinals back to Rome to consult with him
on various matters and to just get together, so they're
familiar with each other. The type of men you're dealing with,
their feelings, their agenda, where they come from in the world,
(01:20):
and what they bring to the faith. Well, these cardinals
are deprived that. First of all, Pope frances chose men
from far flong parts of the world. Okay, so they
have very little familiarity with Rome. Secondly, these men don't
know each other because about ten years ago, Pope Francis
had a Family Senate where he wanted to kind of
remake and revisit Catholic doctrine visa vis the family marriage,
(01:44):
divorced and remarried people, and he didn't like the feedback
he got from the College of Cardinals. So guess what,
no more College of Cardinals meetings. He just did away
with them. So this college has not met. These one
hundred and thirty three electors have not met in over
ten years, and a good chunk of them, I would
say about maybe forty of them were chosen in between
(02:06):
that period, so they are really out in the dark.
So they not only don't know the other older cardinals,
but the older cardinals don't know them. So there's a
lot of confusion. As I told somebody the other day,
it's a bunch of disoriented journalists covering a bunch of
disoriented cardinals. It's not a pretty scene, Raymond.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
You know, you could, I guess you could say that
Francis was a seismic shift in religious doctrine or sort
of at least direction of the Catholic Church. Do you
get a sense it's going to continue along that path
based on everything you say, because it seems like the
cardinals have very disparate interests coming from disparate parts of
the world. Or do you see it recalibrating, for lack
of a better term, to what people perceive or at
(02:48):
least here in America want a more conservative church.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Well, there are two answers to this one. Yes, there
is a faction here in Rome and in places like
Germany and other parts of the Church that would like
to continue the Francis line. Pope Francis did a point
seventy eight percent of the cardinals going into this conclave.
One hundred and eight of the one hundred and thirty
three men he chose. Okay, but here's the wild card.
(03:15):
They are not his ideological copies. They're not carbon copies
of him in any way because of where they hail from.
You know, they have very different appetites in Africa and
parts of Asia. In India, there are things that are
just foreboding. I mean divorce, you don't get divorced in
certain parts of the world. The idea of of you know, LGBT, right,
(03:36):
this is completely foreign in Africa. So those cardinals will
bring with them the cultural understanding that will impact their choice.
And I think I think we're going to see a change.
You know, the traditional saying in Rome is after a
fat pope comes a thin pope, and I think that's
what we're looking at here. I think you will see
(03:57):
a departure from the trajectory. Pope Francis wanted his whole
Sonotyl church, bringing in outsiders, atheists and you know, nuns
and young people to decide on doctrine and getting an
equal vote with a cardinal. Well, if Jesus had one
that I wanted that he would have invited all the
disciples along and given them the keys to the Kingdom
(04:20):
of Heaven. He didn't do that. He brought the twelve
in and said, Peter, you're the rock of this thing.
So they're here to choose a successor to the Apostle Peter.
And that is a very serious and weighty thing, and
I think it will have wide ranging consequences. And my
sense is there'll be a return at least attacked toward tradition.
(04:43):
If not a traditional conservative pope, they'll be. This will
be moderated. That's my guess, Raymond.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
With the time, we have left two part question for you.
One did you see Conclaves? And two how accurate is
it to the process of what we will see on Wednesday?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
And everybody asked, you know, I interviewed Edward Berger and
Russolini and Race Finds when that movie came out, and
they called me up because I think they kind of
wanted an endorsement. So I sat through the movie. I
didn't interview with him, and I have to say I
found it tedious. But there are parts of the ritual
that they do get right. The swearing before Michaelangelo's last judgment,
(05:23):
which is you know, you can imagine you look up
and there there are literally popes and cardinals He's got
in hell written on that wall, okay, painted on that wall,
some of whom he knew. When they look up at
that last judgment and make that bow that you know
I'm making this, you know, in concert with Jesus, and
you know, swear that this is what I'm being called
to do. So that part is right. The running the
(05:44):
needle through the ballots, that's correct. And burning of obviously
the ballots and the smoke that's all great. Uh. The
ba the backdrop in some of the intrigues is a
little melodramatic. It's like, you know, it's like the little
foxes at the Vatican. It's I found it kind of
came being silly. I mean, I wish people were as
outspoken as some of those cardinals, you know, so brazen
(06:04):
with their beliefs and what they believe. That's part of
the problem. It's very hard to read the room now
because cardinals don't tell you what they're thinking. They speak
in vagaries, they speak in riddles. You know, it's church speak,
and it's to protect their you know, what their true
agenda is. And we won't know that till the man
comes out on the loggio and has the you know,
the wife outfit on, then you'll figure him out. But
(06:28):
so Conclave got some things right. The most upsetting thing
to me is it trades on the very So it's
trading on the traditions and the deep, powerful rituals of
the church picked up over to millennia. And then the
argument ultimately to get rid of all those traditions, that
we need a pope who's not who doesn't have faith
(06:49):
but has doubt is held up as the cardinal virtue. Well,
this is absurd. So I hate the heart of the movie.
I hate the message of the movie. I despise the
ending of the movie, which is really silly. I won't
run it for your listeners, but I wish I could,
And I don't know. I found it all to be.
It's it's abusing the externals of the church to try
(07:09):
to undermine the church. I don't mind them making an
argument like that, but then don't attack. Don't use the
things that are most attractive, which is the ritual and tradition,
to undermine the church's ritual and tradition.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
He is the host of the Royal Grande Podcast on
the Heart Podcast Network. It's Raymond Arroyo.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Thank you, Raymond all happy to do it, and I'll
let you know when the white smoke goes
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Up beautiful, Thanks so much,
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