Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is Colorado's Morning News. The Pentagon has halted shipments
of some air defense missiles and other precision munitions to
Ukraine due to worries that the US weapons stockpiles have
fallen too low. That decision driven by the Pentagon's policy
chief and was made after a review of Pentagon munition stockpiles,
leading to concerns that the total number of our Tilly
rounds and air defense missiles and precision munitions again was shrinking.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Joining us now on the KWA Common Spirit Health Hotline
with the latest is defense reporter for Politico. It's Jack Deutch.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Jack, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
As always, before we look more into what we've seen
so far in the halting of these shipments, tell us
a little bit about the munition stockpiles. What are some
of the weapons, how are they utilized, and when do
they really decide when it's gone too low.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, So some of the key weapons that have been
going to Ukraine, or have been in the pipeline to
Ukraine at least our patriots air defense interceptors. Those are
the missiles that make contact with either incoming missiles or
drones to defend the sky in Ukraine. Of course, the
US has been using a lot of those in the
(01:04):
Middle East to help defend the Israelis as well as
in the Yemen campaign over the past several months. Also
included in this freeze are one to five to five
millimeters high explosive artillery rounds. Those were a key munition
for the Ukrainians, hell fire missiles that can be fired
(01:26):
from air to air or air to ground, as well
as precision guided munitions fired for long range artillery called gimlas.
So you just see a lot of the capabilities that
Ukraine was using now tied up in this munitions freeze,
and there's been concern at the Pentagon months that these
stockpiles are just more and more critical because there's not
(01:49):
enough high explosive to go around. The defense manufacturing base
has been slow to respond to Ukraine and other conflicts,
and of course the US now engaged in a lot
of conflicts around the world world, not just supporting the
Ukrainian So that concern had been bubbling up at the
Pentagon for months, leading to this freeze.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Jack in your reporting, you said the initial decision to
withhold came sometime in June, but is obviously only taking
effect now. Seems like the timing that ideal with Ukraine
trying to beat back some of the largest Russian barrages
of missiles and drones coming in to Kiev and some
other targets, and along with that too. I know that
the President met with vladimir's Alinsky of Ukraine. I think
(02:28):
during the NATO summit. Would the President have told Zelinsky
this was happening. Did Vladimir Dlynsky know this was happening.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It's not clear. The right hand was talking to the
left hand, Marty. When it comes to the debate within
the Trump administration, we know that the Defense Department had
been looking at a freeze to Ukraine for months and
months and months, dating all the way back to January
February time frame, when we saw that Operation rough Rider
campaign against km and too, the rebel group take off,
(02:57):
and the US was expending a lot of munition there,
and of course those concerns just continued to worsen within
the Defense Department as the US was bombing iron and supporting,
of course, the Israeli campaign there. So you've just seen
this situation kind of get worse and worse and worse.
It's not something that we understand as far as we know,
(03:19):
that came up in the meeting between Trump and Zolensky,
and of course Trump came out of that meeting with
Zelensky talking specifically about how he was considering patriot air
defenses to Ukraine, despite how critically short those were even
for the United States. So this doesn't necessarily seem like
it was something that was on the front burner for
(03:39):
the president.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So Jack, what does this currently mean for Ukraine's defenses,
the latest Russian assaults that we've seen, and is there
any talks of ceasefire or any negotiations between the two.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Well, it's not good. The Ukrainians, of course, have been
enduring some of the largest aerial attacks since the start
of the three r War over the past several weeks.
On Sunday, the Russians hit them with nearly five hundred
drones and decoys, as well as six dupaalistic missiles. So
you just see these attacks ramping up. We haven't seen
(04:14):
an eagerness from the Russian side to come to the
negotiating table, even though there's been pressure from the Trump administration.
Of course, the Russians really blew off the potential of
talks in Eastern Ghoul last month between Zelenski and Putin
and sent a much lower level delegation. So it seems
from all of the evidence we can gather these missile strikes,
(04:35):
as well as the Russians massing about fifty thousand troops
on the northwestern eastern border with Ukraine near the town
of Sumi, that the Russians are content to try and
continue this campaign and this perhaps gives them a little
bit more leverage. And the US is not supplying some
of the critical weapons Ukraine was using for its defense.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And simply put jack, how vulnerable does this make Ukraine?
And I sign an air defense A missile defense experts
say air defense won't win a war for you, but
the absence of it could lose one fast.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, it makes the Ukrainians very vulnerable. I mean, we
don't know if these supplies of the Patriot missile interceptors
were imminent. A lot of them were coming through channels
that the would have to be built and sent to Ukraine,
not necessarily things that would be being taken off of
the Pentagon's shelves. So that's something that needs to be
(05:28):
put into consideration. But there's no substitute for American air
defense capabilities. What the Europeans and other countries are producing
really isn't sort of the same one to one capability,
especially when you're looking at shooting down ballistic missiles, shooting
down these upgraded types of Russian head drones that have
been used against civilian targets in Ukraine. So the Ukrainians
(05:51):
need some help, and they need it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Fast defense reporter for Politico, it's Jack Dutch
It is Colorado's Morning News. The Pentagon has halted shipments
of some air defense missiles and other precision munitions to
Ukraine due to worries that the US weapons stockpiles have
fallen too low. That decision driven by the Pentagon's policy
chief and was made after a review of Pentagon munition stockpiles,
leading to concerns that the total number of our Tilly
rounds and air defense missiles and precision munitions again was shrinking.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Joining us now on the KWA Common Spirit Health Hotline
with the latest is defense reporter for Politico. It's Jack Deutch.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Jack, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
As always, before we look more into what we've seen
so far in the halting of these shipments, tell us
a little bit about the munition stockpiles. What are some
of the weapons, how are they utilized, and when do
they really decide when it's gone too low.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, So some of the key weapons that have been
going to Ukraine, or have been in the pipeline to
Ukraine at least our patriots air defense interceptors. Those are
the missiles that make contact with either incoming missiles or
drones to defend the sky in Ukraine. Of course, the
US has been using a lot of those in the
(01:04):
Middle East to help defend the Israelis as well as
in the Yemen campaign over the past several months. Also
included in this freeze are one to five to five
millimeters high explosive artillery rounds. Those were a key munition
for the Ukrainians, hell fire missiles that can be fired
(01:26):
from air to air or air to ground, as well
as precision guided munitions fired for long range artillery called gimlas.
So you just see a lot of the capabilities that
Ukraine was using now tied up in this munitions freeze,
and there's been concern at the Pentagon months that these
stockpiles are just more and more critical because there's not
(01:49):
enough high explosive to go around. The defense manufacturing base
has been slow to respond to Ukraine and other conflicts,
and of course the US now engaged in a lot
of conflicts around the world world, not just supporting the
Ukrainian So that concern had been bubbling up at the
Pentagon for months, leading to this freeze.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Jack in your reporting, you said the initial decision to
withhold came sometime in June, but is obviously only taking
effect now. Seems like the timing that ideal with Ukraine
trying to beat back some of the largest Russian barrages
of missiles and drones coming in to Kiev and some
other targets, and along with that too. I know that
the President met with vladimir's Alinsky of Ukraine. I think
(02:28):
during the NATO summit. Would the President have told Zelinsky
this was happening. Did Vladimir Dlynsky know this was happening.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It's not clear. The right hand was talking to the
left hand, Marty. When it comes to the debate within
the Trump administration, we know that the Defense Department had
been looking at a freeze to Ukraine for months and
months and months, dating all the way back to January
February time frame, when we saw that Operation rough Rider
campaign against km and too, the rebel group take off,
(02:57):
and the US was expending a lot of munition there,
and of course those concerns just continued to worsen within
the Defense Department as the US was bombing iron and supporting,
of course, the Israeli campaign there. So you've just seen
this situation kind of get worse and worse and worse.
It's not something that we understand as far as we know,
(03:19):
that came up in the meeting between Trump and Zolensky,
and of course Trump came out of that meeting with
Zelensky talking specifically about how he was considering patriot air
defenses to Ukraine, despite how critically short those were even
for the United States. So this doesn't necessarily seem like
it was something that was on the front burner for
(03:39):
the president.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So Jack, what does this currently mean for Ukraine's defenses,
the latest Russian assaults that we've seen, and is there
any talks of ceasefire or any negotiations between the two.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Well, it's not good. The Ukrainians, of course, have been
enduring some of the largest aerial attacks since the start
of the three r War over the past several weeks.
On Sunday, the Russians hit them with nearly five hundred
drones and decoys, as well as six dupaalistic missiles. So
you just see these attacks ramping up. We haven't seen
(04:14):
an eagerness from the Russian side to come to the
negotiating table, even though there's been pressure from the Trump administration.
Of course, the Russians really blew off the potential of
talks in Eastern Ghoul last month between Zelenski and Putin
and sent a much lower level delegation. So it seems
from all of the evidence we can gather these missile strikes,
(04:35):
as well as the Russians massing about fifty thousand troops
on the northwestern eastern border with Ukraine near the town
of Sumi, that the Russians are content to try and
continue this campaign and this perhaps gives them a little
bit more leverage. And the US is not supplying some
of the critical weapons Ukraine was using for its defense.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And simply put jack, how vulnerable does this make Ukraine?
And I sign an air defense A missile defense experts
say air defense won't win a war for you, but
the absence of it could lose one fast.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, it makes the Ukrainians very vulnerable. I mean, we
don't know if these supplies of the Patriot missile interceptors
were imminent. A lot of them were coming through channels
that the would have to be built and sent to Ukraine,
not necessarily things that would be being taken off of
the Pentagon's shelves. So that's something that needs to be
(05:28):
put into consideration. But there's no substitute for American air
defense capabilities. What the Europeans and other countries are producing
really isn't sort of the same one to one capability,
especially when you're looking at shooting down ballistic missiles, shooting
down these upgraded types of Russian head drones that have
been used against civilian targets in Ukraine. So the Ukrainians
(05:51):
need some help, and they need it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Fast defense reporter for Politico, it's Jack Dutch
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