Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The trial is underway for James Craig, you were a
denis accused of fatally poisoning his wife. He's charged with
first degree murder as prosecutors say he puts cyanide and
other chemicals and Angela Craig's protein shakes, leading to her death.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And opening statements took place yesterday, some prosecutors claiming Craig
wanted to start a new life because he was having
an affair and had money problems. The defense says that
police had tunnel vision and Craig was the suspect and
ignored any other evidence. Joining us now on the KWA
Common Spirit Health Hotline from the Texas Defense Firm, it's
attorney Jeremy Rosenthal.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Jeremy, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
As always, tell us a little bit more about what
we heard yesterday in these contrasting arguments between the prosecutors
and the defense attorney and their opening statements.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Right, there's a lot of really bad stuff here for
James Craig, a lot of fingers that sort of point
to him with his Internet searches, with the potassium cyinide
that gets delivered to his office, and he's gotten a
fair going on with a woman in Texas, and so
(01:01):
you've just got there's just a lot of evidence that
sort of point to the man. If you're defending the case,
you're really just sort of trying to scrape or really
any kind of alternate theory that you can come up with.
Maybe this was suicide. Maybe you can't necessarily rule that out.
It's a real hard challenge for the defense though.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
In that sense, Jeremy, how if you're on that side,
what is one of the things maybe you can pick
at or because you only need a little bit of doubts,
so what are the things that you can pick at
and say the evidence looks this way, but there may
be an opening here, or well here's here's where maybe
you need to question so and so with this piece
of evidence.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
What's really hard is when you're defending a case, you
need a theory that is viable. The burden never shifts
to the defense to prove our innocence. In America, it doesn't,
But that's the jurors still have that expectation, and you
really have to approach any kind of criminal trial with
an effective counter balance.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Right on one end, we have.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Somebody who's died who that's always going to carry a
lot of emotional weight. You've got a victim, you've got
their family, and on the other end, you really have
to have something weight that's of equal weight, and the
only thing that typically measures up is Look, we can't
put an innocent person in prison, so you do have
to kind of come up with some sort of alternative theory.
(02:24):
In this instance, you're kicking and scraping in your your
your clawing. What you're doing is you're trying to eliminate
some of the forensic evidence through through legal means. You're
trying to challenge some of it if you can. Sometimes
we joke as a criminal defense lawyer, you're like the
(02:45):
You're like the person who gets chased down the alley
in a movie and you knock over every fruit stand
and every shopping cart, but at the end you get
eaten in the back alley by the monster.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
And that's probably what happens here to the defense.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, Jeremy, when you touched on forensic evidence there, when
we look at the prosecutor's perspective of this, what do
we think is the one piece of evidence that is
standing so firm in this case? Is there questions with
the forensic evidence or is the digital evidence a part
of it?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
That might be a little bit more of their argument.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
That's the problem, right for the defense, is that there's
just so much of it, and you've got there's only
so many paper cuts that you can survive. But when
you have a bad Google search, right, that doesn't look
so hot. When you've got the affair, that doesn't look
so hot. When you've got potassium cyanide getting delivered to
your office and your dental partner comes and says, I
(03:37):
didn't think we killed people here?
Speaker 5 (03:38):
Why are you getting this?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
When you get all of these little things, they just
sort of all of these paper cuts just eventually wall
you in. And that's always that's always.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Sort of the challenge with these types of cases. And
this is a fascinating one, it really is. This is
the kind of case that this is like a law
school problem. Uh and and just just with all the.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Different aspects to it in dimensions. But yeah, it's gonna
be a real hard one for the defense.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Jeremy, this is ancillary.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But the DNA I'm assuming is not being handled by
Colorado with everything they've gone through, right, they are they
using some other place for that for that kind of evidence.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
I don't know that off the top of my head.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
A lot of times, typically it's not uncommon for states
to go to experts that are elsewhere.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Right, DNA is DNA. It doesn't change the fact that
it's it's tested in Omaha, or in Denver, or in Dallas.
That part of it doesn't change. So a lot of.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Times, for sanitary purposes or or if there's a scandal,
or or if or or or if we don't like that,
then you can you can probably retest it if you
have enough of the of the substance, or or you
can have it sort of sanitized if you will, by
by by having a different agency that does it.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
That's not completely uncommon.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
In wrapping up with you and with the minut we
have left in your opinion, your perspective when you look
at this, they say it could last several weeks. And
there are other charges aside from the first degree murder charge.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Do you think he will be convicted on all of them?
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I have a hard time thinking that he's gonna walk
and and a lot of times they hit you with
a whole bunch of stuff, and it's just impossible to walk.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Through all the rain drops.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
This is a really really hard case for the defense.
And there's been allegations that he's been that he's solicited
capital murder while.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
He's been in jail.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So so there is just so much that that that
just really looks pretty damning for him.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Uh And and yeah, if.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
His defense lawyers can, if.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
They've got any magic, now's the time.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And Jeremy is that why he's having a hard time
finding a defense with the few lawyers that have come
and gone in this case.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
H it's always a challenge, right, and it's always a
challenge to in certain instances. There's all sorts of reasons
why certain defense lawyers don't work out. One of the
things in this case that I thought was kind of
interesting was that his original defense team kind of backed.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Out because they were just not agreeing.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
On defensive strategy. Which happened, But what doesn't typically happen
is it's not typically public generally speaking, if a lawyer
has a conflict with an attorney or vice versa, you
just kind of go to the judge and there's kind
of a wink wink, nod nod, and the judge says, Okay,
you're you're out of here.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
You don't have to defend this case anymore.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
But the fact that it's been made so public, and
as a criminal defense lawyer, look, I if I've got
a client who's not agreeing with me, who is really difficult,
that's life.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
And what I can't do is I can't I can't.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Cry and whine about it to the judge or to
the media or anybody else, because you've made your clients
situation worse. So that's that's something that that that can
be a little problematic. And I don't know how that
came to a head, but that part I thought was
a little unusual.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Day two of the Aurora dentist murder.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Trow will follow the latest from the Texas defense firm.
It's attorney Jeremy Rosenthal. Thank you so much for your
insight on this story this morning.
The trial is underway for James Craig, you were a
denis accused of fatally poisoning his wife. He's charged with
first degree murder as prosecutors say he puts cyanide and
other chemicals and Angela Craig's protein shakes, leading to her death.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And opening statements took place yesterday, some prosecutors claiming Craig
wanted to start a new life because he was having
an affair and had money problems. The defense says that
police had tunnel vision and Craig was the suspect and
ignored any other evidence. Joining us now on the KWA
Common Spirit Health Hotline from the Texas Defense Firm, it's
attorney Jeremy Rosenthal.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Jeremy, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
As always, tell us a little bit more about what
we heard yesterday in these contrasting arguments between the prosecutors
and the defense attorney and their opening statements.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Right, there's a lot of really bad stuff here for
James Craig, a lot of fingers that sort of point
to him with his Internet searches, with the potassium cyinide
that gets delivered to his office, and he's gotten a
fair going on with a woman in Texas, and so
(01:01):
you've just got there's just a lot of evidence that
sort of point to the man. If you're defending the case,
you're really just sort of trying to scrape or really
any kind of alternate theory that you can come up with.
Maybe this was suicide. Maybe you can't necessarily rule that out.
It's a real hard challenge for the defense though.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
In that sense, Jeremy, how if you're on that side,
what is one of the things maybe you can pick
at or because you only need a little bit of doubts,
so what are the things that you can pick at
and say the evidence looks this way, but there may
be an opening here, or well here's here's where maybe
you need to question so and so with this piece
of evidence.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
What's really hard is when you're defending a case, you
need a theory that is viable. The burden never shifts
to the defense to prove our innocence. In America, it doesn't,
But that's the jurors still have that expectation, and you
really have to approach any kind of criminal trial with
an effective counter balance.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Right on one end, we have.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Somebody who's died who that's always going to carry a
lot of emotional weight. You've got a victim, you've got
their family, and on the other end, you really have
to have something weight that's of equal weight, and the
only thing that typically measures up is Look, we can't
put an innocent person in prison, so you do have
to kind of come up with some sort of alternative theory.
(02:24):
In this instance, you're kicking and scraping in your your
your clawing. What you're doing is you're trying to eliminate
some of the forensic evidence through through legal means. You're
trying to challenge some of it if you can. Sometimes
we joke as a criminal defense lawyer, you're like the
(02:45):
You're like the person who gets chased down the alley
in a movie and you knock over every fruit stand
and every shopping cart, but at the end you get
eaten in the back alley by the monster.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
And that's probably what happens here to the defense.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, Jeremy, when you touched on forensic evidence there, when
we look at the prosecutor's perspective of this, what do
we think is the one piece of evidence that is
standing so firm in this case? Is there questions with
the forensic evidence or is the digital evidence a part
of it?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
That might be a little bit more of their argument.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
That's the problem, right for the defense, is that there's
just so much of it, and you've got there's only
so many paper cuts that you can survive. But when
you have a bad Google search, right, that doesn't look
so hot. When you've got the affair, that doesn't look
so hot. When you've got potassium cyanide getting delivered to
your office and your dental partner comes and says, I
(03:37):
didn't think we killed people here?
Speaker 5 (03:38):
Why are you getting this?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
When you get all of these little things, they just
sort of all of these paper cuts just eventually wall
you in. And that's always that's always.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Sort of the challenge with these types of cases. And
this is a fascinating one, it really is. This is
the kind of case that this is like a law
school problem. Uh and and just just with all the.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Different aspects to it in dimensions. But yeah, it's gonna
be a real hard one for the defense.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Jeremy, this is ancillary.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But the DNA I'm assuming is not being handled by
Colorado with everything they've gone through, right, they are they
using some other place for that for that kind of evidence.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
I don't know that off the top of my head.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
A lot of times, typically it's not uncommon for states
to go to experts that are elsewhere.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Right, DNA is DNA. It doesn't change the fact that
it's it's tested in Omaha, or in Denver, or in Dallas.
That part of it doesn't change. So a lot of.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Times, for sanitary purposes or or if there's a scandal,
or or if or or or if we don't like that,
then you can you can probably retest it if you
have enough of the of the substance, or or you
can have it sort of sanitized if you will, by
by by having a different agency that does it.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
That's not completely uncommon.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
In wrapping up with you and with the minut we
have left in your opinion, your perspective when you look
at this, they say it could last several weeks. And
there are other charges aside from the first degree murder charge.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Do you think he will be convicted on all of them?
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I have a hard time thinking that he's gonna walk
and and a lot of times they hit you with
a whole bunch of stuff, and it's just impossible to walk.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Through all the rain drops.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
This is a really really hard case for the defense.
And there's been allegations that he's been that he's solicited
capital murder while.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
He's been in jail.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So so there is just so much that that that
just really looks pretty damning for him.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Uh And and yeah, if.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
His defense lawyers can, if.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
They've got any magic, now's the time.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And Jeremy is that why he's having a hard time
finding a defense with the few lawyers that have come
and gone in this case.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
H it's always a challenge, right, and it's always a
challenge to in certain instances. There's all sorts of reasons
why certain defense lawyers don't work out. One of the
things in this case that I thought was kind of
interesting was that his original defense team kind of backed.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Out because they were just not agreeing.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
On defensive strategy. Which happened, But what doesn't typically happen
is it's not typically public generally speaking, if a lawyer
has a conflict with an attorney or vice versa, you
just kind of go to the judge and there's kind
of a wink wink, nod nod, and the judge says, Okay,
you're you're out of here.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
You don't have to defend this case anymore.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
But the fact that it's been made so public, and
as a criminal defense lawyer, look, I if I've got
a client who's not agreeing with me, who is really difficult,
that's life.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
And what I can't do is I can't I can't.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Cry and whine about it to the judge or to
the media or anybody else, because you've made your clients
situation worse. So that's that's something that that that can
be a little problematic. And I don't know how that
came to a head, but that part I thought was
a little unusual.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Day two of the Aurora dentist murder.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Trow will follow the latest from the Texas defense firm.
It's attorney Jeremy Rosenthal. Thank you so much for your
insight on this story this morning.
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