Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is Colorado's Morning News. Marty Lens, Gina Gondicket Morning
more hot water for Ticketmaster. The Federal Trade Commission in
seven states, including Colorado's, suing the nation's leading concert ticket vendor.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The complaint against Ticketmaster and its parent company, Live Nations
has their practice deceives customers by advertising low ticket prices
but paying higher costs on top of brokers and sculpers
buying up more tickets than the legal limit. Joining us
now on the Kway Common Spirit Health Hotline is Colorado
Attorney General Phil Wiser. Attorney General Wiser, thank you so
much of your time.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
As always, thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Tell us a little bit about this lawsuit as somebody
who is an avid concert goer. Was something that really
perked my interest when I saw it come down. What
are you hoping to accomplish by joining it?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
For years? And this is Ticketmaster's own words, they engaged
in a bate and switch approach where they would tell
consumers here's what it's going to be in terms of
your ticket price. And they made a lot of money
by misrepresenting how much people actually paid because and you
probably remember this, Gina, we've had this experience. You get
(01:04):
advertised price, you go look at it, and then only
at the very end you end up with these additional
fees that are put on, and those fees can actually
range from like twenty four to forty four percent of
the total price. And when you total it all off,
just from a five year period twenty nineteen to twenty
twenty four, it's over sixteen billion dollars. So they were
making money by tricking consumers. That's against our consumer protection law,
(01:27):
and it's call's attorney general. I'm always going to fight
for consumers and make sure consumers don't get tripped, don't
get deceived, and get what's promised to them.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So few states on this lawsuit, though, ag Wiser, why
do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
This is an interesting lawsuit because it's being led by
the Federal Trade Commission, and that's actually a question for them.
I know that we're on because we have been on
top of ticket Master raising concerns involved in a parallel
antitrust lossuinggainst ticket Master. The lawsuits a bipartisan lawsuit, but
(02:03):
I agree there's not as many states as I would think,
And I think that's actually a question about how the
STC's outreaches to states. I'll give you one context that
may help a little bit. The Federal Trade Commission currently
doesn't have any Democrats on its commissioners right now because
President Trump has taken an unprecedented step of firing democratic
commissioners that goes against a almost one hundred year old
(02:26):
Supreme Court precedent. There's litigation on that right now. Where
we're working to keep this day independent and bipartisan agency.
That character of the agency and how it's operating may
be part of a hindrance here. But I know that
we're committed to this, and we've looked at the complaint
and you can read it yourself. It's online for people
(02:46):
who can take a look. It's a compelling story. It's
a real powerful story of consumer harm, and so we're
going to do what we can to help couple out
of consumers.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So what does this lawsuit mean in the end? Could
take Master face fines of their own and fans possibly?
Is there any chance of reimbursement? You're talking sixteen billion
dollars over a five year period of fees alone. Could
we see any repercussions or anything given back to those
who are practically victimized by Ticketmaster?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
There's two types of relief that we often seek. One
is going forward relief that make sure that consumers are
treated fairly. And then of course there's how do you
make up for the harm for the misleading deceptive fees
consumers have been pushed into paying. Obviously, we'd like to
get both kinds of relief in any case we can.
(03:35):
We're going to see the best relief we can. To
Marty's earlier question, we're not exactly in full control here
because the Federal Trade Commission is the one who has
sort of organized this effort, and so we're going to
work the best we can to work the problem, to
fight for consumers and get the best is that we can.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I hate to blame technology all the time or an algorithm,
but how much of this because you mentioned here about
brokers scooping up the tickets, but how much of this
is technology driven as well? Where again they are bought
in bulk, they can charge the buy them at a
low price, then come out and charge higher prices to them.
Does that play any role in this at all?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He raised an important port mark. There's two basic concerns
we've been talking about. The one around deceptive fees that
have really hiped up how much consumers end up paying,
and have tricked them in this bait and switchway. There's
another concept here. It comes from a law those pass
called the Better Online Ticket Sales Act, and the premise
(04:28):
is what you just said, we don't want all these
brokers buying up all the tickets and then turning around
and selling them at hyped up prices. Artists don't want that.
Artists want to make sure that fans can actually afford
to go. But unfortunately, these brokers are out there, and
in some cases they're able to buy lots and lots
of tickets. There's one example in the complaint a Coldplay
(04:51):
concert where one broker was able to get seven hundred
and seventy two tickets that was over eighty one thousand
dollars of tickets purchased, and then turns around to resells
them for basically over twice the amount. The thing that
ticketmaster ends up having, let's call it instead of here.
They make money on both sides. They make money when
tickets are transferred and when they're initially brought, so for
(05:12):
them that wasn't necessarily a bad result, but for consumers
they just end up paying twice as much as they
would have because the brokers scooped them up. What is
at issue in terms of technology here is that Ticketmaster
can't turn a blind eye to whether or not it's
people or brokers buying it up. And that's something that
the lawsuit is focused on. There is this idea that
(05:34):
you're supposed to only sell a certain number of tickets
to make sure it gets to real people. And if
a ticket seller here Ticketmaster is turning a blind eye
to it, that's going to raise concerns for us. And
that's the second issue in this complaint.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Attorney Generalizer and wrapping up with you, one thing that
I've noticed purchasing tickets recently is the new it feels
at least newer dynamic pricing where prices actually fluctuate depending
on demand. Does this lawsuit target that or address that
in any way?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
This does not talk about that dynamic pricing issue. I
do have concerns about whether and when and how damn
pricing will be used. It is a still developing area,
and one of the challenges with dynamic pricing is it
can go in either direction. There's sometimes when we've used
(06:19):
to this with airlines, they're working to give you deals
at the last minute because they haven't sold all the
seats on the plane, and that can actually help consumers
get a better deal, but it also can have the
opposite effect, and the more information that the seller has
about us, the more ability to have to potentially target
us for higher prices, but also, as I mentioned, sometimes
(06:41):
find ways to give people lower prices. So we're going
to keep our eye on that issue. It has a
real potential. We're concerned, but it's not an issue in
this case.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Colorado Attorney General Phil Wiser, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Always a pleasure, guys,
It is Colorado's Morning News. Marty Lens, Gina Gondicket Morning
more hot water for Ticketmaster. The Federal Trade Commission in
seven states, including Colorado's, suing the nation's leading concert ticket vendor.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
The complaint against Ticketmaster and its parent company, Live Nations
has their practice deceives customers by advertising low ticket prices
but paying higher costs on top of brokers and sculpers
buying up more tickets than the legal limit. Joining us
now on the Kway Common Spirit Health Hotline is Colorado
Attorney General Phil Wiser. Attorney General Wiser, thank you so
much of your time.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
As always, thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Tell us a little bit about this lawsuit as somebody
who is an avid concert goer. Was something that really
perked my interest when I saw it come down. What
are you hoping to accomplish by joining it?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
For years? And this is Ticketmaster's own words, they engaged
in a bate and switch approach where they would tell
consumers here's what it's going to be in terms of
your ticket price. And they made a lot of money
by misrepresenting how much people actually paid because and you
probably remember this, Gina, we've had this experience. You get
(01:04):
advertised price, you go look at it, and then only
at the very end you end up with these additional
fees that are put on, and those fees can actually
range from like twenty four to forty four percent of
the total price. And when you total it all off,
just from a five year period twenty nineteen to twenty
twenty four, it's over sixteen billion dollars. So they were
making money by tricking consumers. That's against our consumer protection law,
(01:27):
and it's call's attorney general. I'm always going to fight
for consumers and make sure consumers don't get tripped, don't
get deceived, and get what's promised to them.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So few states on this lawsuit, though, ag Wiser, why
do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
This is an interesting lawsuit because it's being led by
the Federal Trade Commission, and that's actually a question for them.
I know that we're on because we have been on
top of ticket Master raising concerns involved in a parallel
antitrust lossuinggainst ticket Master. The lawsuits a bipartisan lawsuit, but
(02:03):
I agree there's not as many states as I would think,
And I think that's actually a question about how the
STC's outreaches to states. I'll give you one context that
may help a little bit. The Federal Trade Commission currently
doesn't have any Democrats on its commissioners right now because
President Trump has taken an unprecedented step of firing democratic
commissioners that goes against a almost one hundred year old
(02:26):
Supreme Court precedent. There's litigation on that right now. Where
we're working to keep this day independent and bipartisan agency.
That character of the agency and how it's operating may
be part of a hindrance here. But I know that
we're committed to this, and we've looked at the complaint
and you can read it yourself. It's online for people
(02:46):
who can take a look. It's a compelling story. It's
a real powerful story of consumer harm, and so we're
going to do what we can to help couple out
of consumers.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So what does this lawsuit mean in the end? Could
take Master face fines of their own and fans possibly?
Is there any chance of reimbursement? You're talking sixteen billion
dollars over a five year period of fees alone. Could
we see any repercussions or anything given back to those
who are practically victimized by Ticketmaster?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
There's two types of relief that we often seek. One
is going forward relief that make sure that consumers are
treated fairly. And then of course there's how do you
make up for the harm for the misleading deceptive fees
consumers have been pushed into paying. Obviously, we'd like to
get both kinds of relief in any case we can.
(03:35):
We're going to see the best relief we can. To
Marty's earlier question, we're not exactly in full control here
because the Federal Trade Commission is the one who has
sort of organized this effort, and so we're going to
work the best we can to work the problem, to
fight for consumers and get the best is that we can.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I hate to blame technology all the time or an algorithm,
but how much of this because you mentioned here about
brokers scooping up the tickets, but how much of this
is technology driven as well? Where again they are bought
in bulk, they can charge the buy them at a
low price, then come out and charge higher prices to them.
Does that play any role in this at all?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
He raised an important port mark. There's two basic concerns
we've been talking about. The one around deceptive fees that
have really hiped up how much consumers end up paying,
and have tricked them in this bait and switchway. There's
another concept here. It comes from a law those pass
called the Better Online Ticket Sales Act, and the premise
(04:28):
is what you just said, we don't want all these
brokers buying up all the tickets and then turning around
and selling them at hyped up prices. Artists don't want that.
Artists want to make sure that fans can actually afford
to go. But unfortunately, these brokers are out there, and
in some cases they're able to buy lots and lots
of tickets. There's one example in the complaint a Coldplay
(04:51):
concert where one broker was able to get seven hundred
and seventy two tickets that was over eighty one thousand
dollars of tickets purchased, and then turns around to resells
them for basically over twice the amount. The thing that
ticketmaster ends up having, let's call it instead of here.
They make money on both sides. They make money when
tickets are transferred and when they're initially brought, so for
(05:12):
them that wasn't necessarily a bad result, but for consumers
they just end up paying twice as much as they
would have because the brokers scooped them up. What is
at issue in terms of technology here is that Ticketmaster
can't turn a blind eye to whether or not it's
people or brokers buying it up. And that's something that
the lawsuit is focused on. There is this idea that
(05:34):
you're supposed to only sell a certain number of tickets
to make sure it gets to real people. And if
a ticket seller here Ticketmaster is turning a blind eye
to it, that's going to raise concerns for us. And
that's the second issue in this complaint.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Attorney Generalizer and wrapping up with you, one thing that
I've noticed purchasing tickets recently is the new it feels
at least newer dynamic pricing where prices actually fluctuate depending
on demand. Does this lawsuit target that or address that
in any way?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
This does not talk about that dynamic pricing issue. I
do have concerns about whether and when and how damn
pricing will be used. It is a still developing area,
and one of the challenges with dynamic pricing is it
can go in either direction. There's sometimes when we've used
(06:19):
to this with airlines, they're working to give you deals
at the last minute because they haven't sold all the
seats on the plane, and that can actually help consumers
get a better deal, but it also can have the
opposite effect, and the more information that the seller has
about us, the more ability to have to potentially target
us for higher prices, but also, as I mentioned, sometimes
(06:41):
find ways to give people lower prices. So we're going
to keep our eye on that issue. It has a
real potential. We're concerned, but it's not an issue in
this case.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Colorado Attorney General Phil Wiser, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Always a pleasure, guys,
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