Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Boulder King super shooter going to spend the rest
(00:01):
of his life in prison. A modelis and now found
guilty on all criminal counts, including all ten counts of
first degree murder for his actions.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
The judge handed down ten consecutive life sentences, plus more
than thirteen hundred years in additional time. Joining us now
is Denver Gazette reporter Carol McKinley, who has been covering
this story for quite some time. Carol, good morning, Thanks
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning. Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. It's a privilege
to talk to you guys this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And so when it comes to the prosecution's case, how
did they convince the jurors that the suspect was sane
at the time of the shootings?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Well, you know, they said it was simple. The defense
tried to make this complicated and they said it was
much more complicated than what the prosecution said. But basically
their message to the jury was he was sane at
the time of the shooting, and that's the Colorado law,
and you have to follow the law. And if a
forensicschologists and all their analyzations find him sane, that's what
(01:04):
we had to go by. Is by the evaluation of
the forensic mental health people, and so I think that's
what they did, was they followed the law. The prosecution
tried to also push the fact that he planned so much.
You know, he started buying the weapons in January. He
target shooted the shot target shot what's the word for that.
(01:26):
You know, he researched things like what's the most illegal
magazine in Colorado. He researched doors that were crowded, you know,
like Petco, Safeway, Whole Foods the day before, in that morning.
So the prosecution tried to say that, hey, he was
(01:48):
sane enough to plan this, but really, Colorado law more
goes by how mentally ill was he. And the prosecution
got through to the jury that the voices he was hearing
that he said he was hearing, weren't having conversations and
they weren't telling him.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
What to do premeditated. When when you lay out the
case like that that this is this is, for lack
of a better term, ighte to say it this way
well thought out and very exacting with what he wanted
to do. Carol, did you buy I know the jury
obviously didn't buy it. But as somebody reporting on it.
Did you buy any of the defense of the insanity,
any of the testimony.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Oh, I thought he's well mentally ill and being mentally ill,
and he had severe, extreme schizophrenia, And you could tell
by watching him in the courtroom. He was constantly popping
his knuckle, twibbling his chair. He had a hard time
paying attention. He was only ruled competent to even stand
trial in the last year. So yes, he definitely very thick.
(02:51):
But one of the points the prosecution had is schizophrenia
is different from insanity, and they got that across to jury.
The defense begged to differ on that. They said he
was so menal ill they had to put him after
three tries on the most severe prescription for schizophrenia, which
(03:12):
is called close epine. And only after they put him
on close epine was he able to even converse with
his mental health evaluators. He barely he could. He barely
talked until I would say, after he got on the
close eppen in March twenty twenty three. But they did
(03:34):
have a hard time evaluating him just because he wasn't
answering their questions.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And the statements from family members after the version were
just heartbreaking just the impact that this has had on
their lives going forward.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Oh my gosh, ten victims. He didn't you know, one
of the things that people don't talk about is he
left no wounded. Everybody he hit, he stood over and
made sure they were dead.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
There were at theater shooting, which I also covered, there
were I think seventy wounded, and this one the wounded
were psychologically wounded. But it was it was so sad
in that courtroom. You know, people who were brought to
their knees when they heard that their family member had
died this way returning at grocery cart for goodness sake,
(04:22):
you know, shopping for cereal. You know, you know a
lot of them had to wait hours, even though they
knew their family member had been inside the King supers.
It took a while to figure out who, you know,
to identify them. But they were brought to their knees
on March twenty second, twenty twenty one, and I think
(04:45):
the only thing that kept them standing for each other,
and you could really tell how much they loved each
other yesterday when they were in there, and how much
they loved the Boulder Police. You know, I took a
peek inside. They have a special room for the family.
You know, they would stay in there in the courthouse
and they would disappear and go in there and be
together and cry and have lunch and stuff like that.
(05:07):
And after it was over, I mean, there was a
gauntlet of Boulder County sheriffs watching these families as they
walked by, just to let them know they were safe.
And when I stuck my head in the door, I
saw they were all hugging the Boulder police and thanking
them because Eric Talley, of course, was attended victim and
he was a bolder police officer, so it was kind
(05:29):
of like it was kind of like this weird mesh
of civilians and one police officer and their families, and
it was hard not to be emotional inside that courtroom.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Guys, those stories are the ones that need to be remembered,
the victims and the survivors. But I'll wrap up with
you this, Carol. Something that astounded me is it's always
the missigns with these situations. And I think it was
the shooter's father who talked about and I'm paraphrasing here
that in their culture, or at least in their family,
they didn't talk about those things that brought shame to
(06:02):
do that. I find that astounding that because of something
you feel bad about your family and not taking action
could lead to something like this. That's something that sticks
with me, that that horrifies me as a parent. But
also saying if I see this with my child, do
I need to intervene? Did you take away anything similar
to that with that with that testimony?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, I did, I really did. I felt for this
gunman as I was watching him because his mother was
the first to testify, and all she talked about was
how he's how fad he got, he got after COVID, Hell,
he lost his hair, and you know, he was talking
to himself. She was calling him a crazy person. Then
(06:42):
he and they didn't write a letter to him when
he was in jail, you know. And I felt for
him and in the situation he was in at home.
But yesterday when they were leaving, his mother and two
brothers showed up. He's one of ten children. But as
they were leaving, the mother who doesn't speak English and
(07:04):
they've been here twenty years, but the mother stopped for
the television camera and when one of his brothers tried
to pull her away. She slapped his hand and she said,
I know everybody thinks poorly of us, that we didn't
love him, but we did. We just didn't understand and
understand mental illness in our culture. And then she walked away.
(07:25):
That was her message. Oh but you know, I mean,
if if you know it. I think I read a
some kind of study that said that thirty percent at
Leastern people believe in the Gin and believe, which is
a spirit that they thought was inside of him. They
(07:46):
thought he was possessed, and so they were the thirty percent.
There are plenty of people who are of Middle Eastern
culture who understand mental illness. That's just for them.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
One of them, Edinburgh is that reporter of Carol McKinley.
Thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
You're so welcome. Thanks for having me
The Boulder King super shooter going to spend the rest
(00:01):
of his life in prison. A modelis and now found
guilty on all criminal counts, including all ten counts of
first degree murder for his actions.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
The judge handed down ten consecutive life sentences, plus more
than thirteen hundred years in additional time. Joining us now
is Denver Gazette reporter Carol McKinley, who has been covering
this story for quite some time. Carol, good morning, Thanks
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good morning. Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. It's a privilege
to talk to you guys this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And so when it comes to the prosecution's case, how
did they convince the jurors that the suspect was sane
at the time of the shootings?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Well, you know, they said it was simple. The defense
tried to make this complicated and they said it was
much more complicated than what the prosecution said. But basically
their message to the jury was he was sane at
the time of the shooting, and that's the Colorado law,
and you have to follow the law. And if a
forensicschologists and all their analyzations find him sane, that's what
(01:04):
we had to go by. Is by the evaluation of
the forensic mental health people, and so I think that's
what they did, was they followed the law. The prosecution
tried to also push the fact that he planned so much.
You know, he started buying the weapons in January. He
target shooted the shot target shot what's the word for that.
(01:26):
You know, he researched things like what's the most illegal
magazine in Colorado. He researched doors that were crowded, you know,
like Petco, Safeway, Whole Foods the day before, in that morning.
So the prosecution tried to say that, hey, he was
(01:48):
sane enough to plan this, but really, Colorado law more
goes by how mentally ill was he. And the prosecution
got through to the jury that the voices he was hearing
that he said he was hearing, weren't having conversations and
they weren't telling him.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
What to do premeditated. When when you lay out the
case like that that this is this is, for lack
of a better term, ighte to say it this way
well thought out and very exacting with what he wanted
to do. Carol, did you buy I know the jury
obviously didn't buy it. But as somebody reporting on it.
Did you buy any of the defense of the insanity,
any of the testimony.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Oh, I thought he's well mentally ill and being mentally ill,
and he had severe, extreme schizophrenia, And you could tell
by watching him in the courtroom. He was constantly popping
his knuckle, twibbling his chair. He had a hard time
paying attention. He was only ruled competent to even stand
trial in the last year. So yes, he definitely very thick.
(02:51):
But one of the points the prosecution had is schizophrenia
is different from insanity, and they got that across to jury.
The defense begged to differ on that. They said he
was so menal ill they had to put him after
three tries on the most severe prescription for schizophrenia, which
(03:12):
is called close epine. And only after they put him
on close epine was he able to even converse with
his mental health evaluators. He barely he could. He barely
talked until I would say, after he got on the
close eppen in March twenty twenty three. But they did
(03:34):
have a hard time evaluating him just because he wasn't
answering their questions.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And the statements from family members after the version were
just heartbreaking just the impact that this has had on
their lives going forward.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Oh my gosh, ten victims. He didn't you know, one
of the things that people don't talk about is he
left no wounded. Everybody he hit, he stood over and
made sure they were dead.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
There were at theater shooting, which I also covered, there
were I think seventy wounded, and this one the wounded
were psychologically wounded. But it was it was so sad
in that courtroom. You know, people who were brought to
their knees when they heard that their family member had
died this way returning at grocery cart for goodness sake,
(04:22):
you know, shopping for cereal. You know, you know a
lot of them had to wait hours, even though they
knew their family member had been inside the King supers.
It took a while to figure out who, you know,
to identify them. But they were brought to their knees
on March twenty second, twenty twenty one, and I think
(04:45):
the only thing that kept them standing for each other,
and you could really tell how much they loved each
other yesterday when they were in there, and how much
they loved the Boulder Police. You know, I took a
peek inside. They have a special room for the family.
You know, they would stay in there in the courthouse
and they would disappear and go in there and be
together and cry and have lunch and stuff like that.
(05:07):
And after it was over, I mean, there was a
gauntlet of Boulder County sheriffs watching these families as they
walked by, just to let them know they were safe.
And when I stuck my head in the door, I
saw they were all hugging the Boulder police and thanking
them because Eric Talley, of course, was attended victim and
he was a bolder police officer, so it was kind
(05:29):
of like it was kind of like this weird mesh
of civilians and one police officer and their families, and
it was hard not to be emotional inside that courtroom.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Guys, those stories are the ones that need to be remembered,
the victims and the survivors. But I'll wrap up with
you this, Carol. Something that astounded me is it's always
the missigns with these situations. And I think it was
the shooter's father who talked about and I'm paraphrasing here
that in their culture, or at least in their family,
they didn't talk about those things that brought shame to
(06:02):
do that. I find that astounding that because of something
you feel bad about your family and not taking action
could lead to something like this. That's something that sticks
with me, that that horrifies me as a parent. But
also saying if I see this with my child, do
I need to intervene? Did you take away anything similar
to that with that with that testimony?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, I did, I really did. I felt for this
gunman as I was watching him because his mother was
the first to testify, and all she talked about was
how he's how fad he got, he got after COVID, Hell,
he lost his hair, and you know, he was talking
to himself. She was calling him a crazy person. Then
(06:42):
he and they didn't write a letter to him when
he was in jail, you know. And I felt for
him and in the situation he was in at home.
But yesterday when they were leaving, his mother and two
brothers showed up. He's one of ten children. But as
they were leaving, the mother who doesn't speak English and
(07:04):
they've been here twenty years, but the mother stopped for
the television camera and when one of his brothers tried
to pull her away. She slapped his hand and she said,
I know everybody thinks poorly of us, that we didn't
love him, but we did. We just didn't understand and
understand mental illness in our culture. And then she walked away.
(07:25):
That was her message. Oh but you know, I mean,
if if you know it. I think I read a
some kind of study that said that thirty percent at
Leastern people believe in the Gin and believe, which is
a spirit that they thought was inside of him. They
(07:46):
thought he was possessed, and so they were the thirty percent.
There are plenty of people who are of Middle Eastern
culture who understand mental illness. That's just for them.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
One of them, Edinburgh is that reporter of Carol McKinley.
Thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
You're so welcome. Thanks for having me
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