10 01 25 Atlantic writer Tom Nichols on Trump and Hegseth meeting with Generals

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now on Colorado's Morning News. Hundreds of generals and admirals
summoned for yesterday's meeting with Defense Secretary Pete Hegsett, then
President Trump, and Quantico Virginia without innatually being told why.
Hegseth slam toxic leaders who he accused of lowering standards,
the President speaking for over an hour, saying that we'll
become stronger and faster in the military over the next
few years.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Joining us on the KA comments prior of Health hotline,
retired professor at the US Naval War College, expert on Russia,
author and currently writer for The Atlantic. It's Tom Nichols. Tom,
welcome back. This is kind of an odd question to
start with, but there were some concerns with the government shutdown,
which we've been covering all morning, that some of these
generals and admirals couldn't maybe get back to their post.
Do you have any insight knowledge reporting about whether or

(00:40):
not they were able to return after yesterday's meeting.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I don't. I'm I assume that a lot of them
got out of town as quickly as they could ahead
of the shutdown, because I think everybody saw that coming.
But normally the military if they're flying military aircraft. The
military is not shut down when everybody else is. But
if they were relying on somebody giving them the travel

(01:06):
orders or answering the phone. Today they're up the creek.
But I haven't heard about anybody getting stranded, at least
not yet.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Looking at what took place in Quantico yesterday, pretty fascinating
because a lot of people went into this not knowing
of what would be taking place, and the situation was
a little awkward at times because I think there was
not a lot of cheering, not a lot of things
going on that maybe the president or Hegseth may have expected.
Is it odd to hear nobody cheer or is that

(01:36):
just the etiquette and professionalism of what we see with
these senior military officials.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
That's exactly right. You know, that is the tradition and
the professionalism of the military that they do not applaud for,
you know, partisan applause lines. You know, there was a
president made a few little jokes. There was some polite laughter,
but the you know, these are military officers, not a

(02:01):
partisan rally. They stand when the President and the Secretary
of Defense center, they stand when they leave, and that's it.
And that is the way it's supposed to be, and
I think the President in particular was kind of flummoxed
by that. I mean, the first thing he said when
he walked in was, gee, you know, I've never walked
into any place so quiet. Well, that's because a professional

(02:22):
military audience is not a bunch of you know, red
hat wearing, you know, cheering partisans. They are there because
they are ordered to be there, and they are there
to listen politely while their commander in chief speaks to them.
But it's not supposed to be a political rally.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Speaking of the substance of what was said with the Secretary,
heg Seth and the President, what was your reaction to
what took place?

Speaker 3 (02:49):
It was appalling on every level. At first, with the Secretary,
a retired major who decided to bring people from all
over the world at a cost that certainly ran into
the millions of dollars, to tell them that, you know,
he expected them to work out more and cut their
hair and lose weight. I mean, it was really that

(03:13):
was I think just embarrassing. And if the Secretary did
that to enhance his stature among the high command, I
think it backfired. And I think a lot of those
people who, you know, it's important to remember a lot
of those people were military officers when Pete Hegseth was
still in high school, probably walked out of there thinking
not very highly of the current secretary of Defense. The

(03:37):
president's speech was just a violation of civil military norms,
going all the way back to George Washington. He walked
in there, he trashed his predecessors, who of course were
the former commanders in chief while these people were serving.
He trashed sitting American elected leaders, such as governors. He

(04:01):
kind of rambled on my concern and the thing I
wrote about in The Atlantic yesterday is that he didn't appear,
you know, emotionally well that I think a lot of
those officers may have walked out saying, you know, there's
something wrong with the commander in chief, that this person
is not stable. Because it was a classic Trump performance

(04:23):
of you know, grievance and rambling stories and lies and
weird detours. And he just sort of stood there for
almost an hour, you know, like a like a kind
of meandering grandpa telling stories. And you could see that,
you know, the mostly men, but the men and the

(04:44):
few women in that auditorin were sitting there, and I
think they were Again, they were probably seeing this for
the first time. I mean, these are generals who don't
spend a lot of time watching They can't go to
political rallies, They probably don't spend a lot of time
watching speeches on TV. And I think for a lot
of them, this was the first time that they got

(05:04):
the full, you know, one hundred and eighty proof pure
Donald Trump experience. And again, I have to think it
probably unsettled some of them.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Tom multiple times, President Trump referenced enemies foreign and domestic.
He brought up domestic several times, and then talked a
little bit about using American cities as training grounds for
urban warfare. I mean, can the military operate the way
that he explained on American soil.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Not unless we're at war or that there is an insurrection,
which is what he keeps trying to market. And I
think the people in that auditorium know that very well.
The military does not train for domestic missions. They don't
like it, they are not comfortable with it. They don't
see it as their job. They believe there and I

(05:55):
think rightly that the job of the US military is
to protect the country, bring in mostly by playing away
games and not to protect the country from its own citizens.
Now the oath is against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
But remember that before you get to the army, there
are police, state police, you know, other options before you

(06:20):
bring in the US military, which Americans, by tradition for
two hundred and fifty years, have always been reluctant to do.
And I think that that was a very ominous part
of the President's speech, and I think it probably didn't
go over very well with people who I think understand
their duty to the Constitution much better than Donald Trump

(06:42):
understands his.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Since Pete haig Seth talks about standards, I've reached out.
We've reached out to the Air Force Academy, which you
know is based here, the education branch of the Air Force.
Reached out to some of the colleges here that have
ROTC because I wanted to get them. You taught at
the Naval War College. Does this have the standards changed?
Does the curriculum change we're teaching these young people to
come up for the military.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
The curriculum didn't change at the Naval War College. That's
a graduate school for military off series and I was
there for I mean, the first time I taught there
was almost thirty five years ago, and I think a
lot of this is, you know, kind of hallucinatory wokeness
that folks like hag Seth believe, or at least claim

(07:28):
to believe, is happening throughout the military. I think the
only thing that you'd notice from the time that you know,
I first encountered the military back in the eighties to
now is that's slightly more diverse. There are more women,
certainly more women in leadership positions. Considering that women are

(07:50):
half the country, that shouldn't be surprising. But the idea
that somehow, you know, that the military has become this
like you know, nest of feminist reading circles or something,
is just nuts. And I think it's really a way.

(08:10):
My colleague Elliot Cohen, by the way, has a very
good article today in The Atlantic about Pete heg Set's
gripes and resentments over this that I think explains a
lot of hag sets of view as a pasted over
major in the army. And I think, you know that's
where it comes from, is this kind of origin story

(08:31):
about hag set feeling that he just wasn't valued enough
in the army. But I think a lot of what
hag Sets went on about yesterday is just at least
in my experience. And you know, I was not a
military officer, but I taught military officers going back almost
to the Reagan administration. You know, I didn't recognize most

(08:53):
of what he said, and I thought most of it
was just utter nonsense.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
You can read Tom's latest piece in the Atlantic. Writer
for The Atlantic its Nichols. Thanks Tom, Thank you.