Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is Colorado's Morning News. The Common Sense Institute released
Colorado's Competency Crisis. This report examines Colorado's challenges with criminal
competency laws and analysis of consent decrees, which requires the
state to pay hefty fines if it has a criminal
competency restoration backlog, as well as a stay law, which
requires Colorado's judges to dismiss cases in which the defendant
(00:21):
has been deemed incompetence.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
The report highlights several high profile crimes that have occurred
as a result. Joining us now in the KOA Common
Spirit Health Hotline, Common Sudense Institute Owen's Early Criminal Justice
Fellow John Kellner, John, good morning, and thanks for joining us.
Before we get into some of the details, can you
give us an overview of what exactly goes into these
competency evaluations and why there's such a backlog.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, great question, and good morning. Thanks for having me on.
You know, when we're talking about competency, I think what
people need to understand is that this is something that's
been part of our constitutional fabric in theminal justice system
really for an incredibly long time, and it basically means
that a criminal defendant has to be able to understand
what's happening in the courtroom and has to be able
(01:09):
to participate in their own defense. A lot of people
have heard things like not guilty by reason of insanity. Right,
this is very different. This is sort of step one
in the criminal justice process. You have to be competent
to proceed in order to go forward with criminal charges. Now,
when people appear to be incompetent, you know they don't
(01:29):
understand what's going on. Oftentimes this is raised by a
defense attorney or even sometimes by the judge or the prosecutor.
That triggers an evaluation by a mental health professional who's
going to sit down and usually interview this person one
on one to figure out, Okay, are they oriented to
what's going on? Do they have the ability to understand
what's happening in the courtroom. They don't have to be
(01:51):
a lawyer, but they have to be able to have
a basic understanding that the outcome of what's happening in
court here may be incredibly serious. John, that's really the
starting point.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, go ahead, No, I apologize as I say, As
you know, we've had in the news about some of
these people that have been let go because they're incompetent
to stand trial. But this is where I where I
quite don't understand and help clear it up for me.
Aren't those that are declared incompetent aren't they supposed to
be put into some services or get some services.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Absolutely, So there's kind of a decision tree. If somebody
is deemed incompetent, they're either deemed incompetent and restorable or
incompetent and not likely to be restorable. So you hit
this point where if you're found to be incompetent and
they think you might be able to get better, they're
going to send you off for usually inpatient restoration, and
(02:40):
you're going to send you to the state mental hospital.
You're going to get these services, they're going to treat you,
they might give you medication, and then they're going to say, okay,
now they're competent, they can go forward with the case.
Sometimes they're going to put those people in outpatient competency restoration,
and that has also had some disastrous effects, unfortunately. The
(03:00):
gentleman from just a couple of years ago, who last year,
who was released, who allegedly committed the double murder on
the sixteenth Street Mall of the stabbing. That was somebody
who was released to outpatient competency restoration. Now on the
other side of that decision tree is the many who
is determined to be incompetent and not restorable, meaning there's
not a likelihood this guy is going to be able
(03:22):
to get to that baseline. That's where the new law
says that charge against that person needs to be automatically
dismissed and they're going to be released from jail. And
that's where you have the most recent situation out in
the WELB counting.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Now, John, the report lays out some of the reasons
behind this what you're calling the Colorado's competency crisis, but
you also lay out some possible solutions. Sir, What are
things that can be done to help alleviate or eliminate this.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I think one of the first things we've got to
look at is the incredible cost for the state to
operate these restoration beds for incompetency in patient restoration. It's
incredibly expensive, usually over three hundred thousand dollars per bed.
We've got to look at reducing that cost. We have
to restore some judicial discretion and competency dismissals, So the
(04:12):
new law took away a lot of that discretion from
a judge, and especially in violent crime cases, they've got
to have some ability to make a decision other than
automatic dismissal. But for the cases where they have to
be dismissed, there has to be a link between the
criminal system and the civil commitment system. Meaning, look, if
the case has to be dismissed, they shouldn't just be
(04:32):
released without any services, without any connection to the community,
and just put out the door. There probably needs to
be an automatic handoffs to the civil system, meaning they're
going to still be in custody, but just not pending
criminal charges. The last thing I'd say is we've got
to expand the state hospital capacity. It's clear we just
(04:53):
don't have enough beds to deal with the state that's
suffering from tremendous mental health issues and many metrics to
state it ranks worst in the country for some of
these metrics on mental health outcomes and prevalence and mental
health issues. So we've got to look at expanding the
state mental hospital, particularly more into the Denver metro area.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
John two quick questions. How often are you aware that
the court's encounter cases and situations involving Colorado's competency law,
and one is too many when something tragic happens to that.
But is there a lot of data to show there's
a lot of this going on? Or are they, for
lack of a better term, one offs, but I'm not
dismissing those that have been impacted by this. And then secondly,
would incarcerating all these individuals be as expensive if not
(05:35):
more financially, since you try to look at the numbers,
even if it may be safer for society.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, and great question. I'll start with that last one. First,
the costume incarce rates somebody is about fifty eight thousand
dollars a year, sometimes sixty thousand dollars. The cost to
have somebody in an in patient restoration that is usually
over three hundred thousand dollars per year. So obviously cost
less incarce rate, but still run into that basic constitutional problem.
(06:02):
You can't incarcerate somebody who doesn't understand why they're there
or what's going on. You know, we've got to be
more focused on restoring those people to competency and having
the available bed space to do that. You know, in
terms of how prevalent. This is I can tell you
as a prosecutor for almost twenty years, it has exploded.
(06:23):
In the last ten years, you see more and more
of this, and I think part of that is because
there's a strain on our system. We have just not
enough beds to deal with a number of people in
our state who are suffering from mental health issues that
result in incompetency. And then I think there's you know,
at times, just a push for defense attorneys to say, look,
(06:44):
I'm going to put more and more people into this system,
get them checked out, and it creates a greater and
greater backlog. You know, That's really the problem here is
the state's under this consent decree. What we're paying about
twelve million dollars a year in fines just because we
have too many people on the wait list waiting too
long to get incompetency restoration services.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Common Sense Institute Criminal Justice Fellow John Kellner, Thank you,
Thank you,
It is Colorado's Morning News. The Common Sense Institute released
Colorado's Competency Crisis. This report examines Colorado's challenges with criminal
competency laws and analysis of consent decrees, which requires the
state to pay hefty fines if it has a criminal
competency restoration backlog, as well as a stay law, which
requires Colorado's judges to dismiss cases in which the defendant
(00:21):
has been deemed incompetence.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
The report highlights several high profile crimes that have occurred
as a result. Joining us now in the KOA Common
Spirit Health Hotline, Common Sudense Institute Owen's Early Criminal Justice
Fellow John Kellner, John, good morning, and thanks for joining us.
Before we get into some of the details, can you
give us an overview of what exactly goes into these
competency evaluations and why there's such a backlog.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, great question, and good morning. Thanks for having me on.
You know, when we're talking about competency, I think what
people need to understand is that this is something that's
been part of our constitutional fabric in theminal justice system
really for an incredibly long time, and it basically means
that a criminal defendant has to be able to understand
what's happening in the courtroom and has to be able
(01:09):
to participate in their own defense. A lot of people
have heard things like not guilty by reason of insanity. Right,
this is very different. This is sort of step one
in the criminal justice process. You have to be competent
to proceed in order to go forward with criminal charges. Now,
when people appear to be incompetent, you know they don't
(01:29):
understand what's going on. Oftentimes this is raised by a
defense attorney or even sometimes by the judge or the prosecutor.
That triggers an evaluation by a mental health professional who's
going to sit down and usually interview this person one
on one to figure out, Okay, are they oriented to
what's going on? Do they have the ability to understand
what's happening in the courtroom. They don't have to be
(01:51):
a lawyer, but they have to be able to have
a basic understanding that the outcome of what's happening in
court here may be incredibly serious. John, that's really the
starting point.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, go ahead, No, I apologize as I say, As
you know, we've had in the news about some of
these people that have been let go because they're incompetent
to stand trial. But this is where I where I
quite don't understand and help clear it up for me.
Aren't those that are declared incompetent aren't they supposed to
be put into some services or get some services.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Absolutely, So there's kind of a decision tree. If somebody
is deemed incompetent, they're either deemed incompetent and restorable or
incompetent and not likely to be restorable. So you hit
this point where if you're found to be incompetent and
they think you might be able to get better, they're
going to send you off for usually inpatient restoration, and
(02:40):
you're going to send you to the state mental hospital.
You're going to get these services, they're going to treat you,
they might give you medication, and then they're going to say, okay,
now they're competent, they can go forward with the case.
Sometimes they're going to put those people in outpatient competency restoration,
and that has also had some disastrous effects, unfortunately. The
(03:00):
gentleman from just a couple of years ago, who last year,
who was released, who allegedly committed the double murder on
the sixteenth Street Mall of the stabbing. That was somebody
who was released to outpatient competency restoration. Now on the
other side of that decision tree is the many who
is determined to be incompetent and not restorable, meaning there's
not a likelihood this guy is going to be able
(03:22):
to get to that baseline. That's where the new law
says that charge against that person needs to be automatically
dismissed and they're going to be released from jail. And
that's where you have the most recent situation out in
the WELB counting.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Now, John, the report lays out some of the reasons
behind this what you're calling the Colorado's competency crisis, but
you also lay out some possible solutions. Sir, What are
things that can be done to help alleviate or eliminate this.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I think one of the first things we've got to
look at is the incredible cost for the state to
operate these restoration beds for incompetency in patient restoration. It's
incredibly expensive, usually over three hundred thousand dollars per bed.
We've got to look at reducing that cost. We have
to restore some judicial discretion and competency dismissals, So the
(04:12):
new law took away a lot of that discretion from
a judge, and especially in violent crime cases, they've got
to have some ability to make a decision other than
automatic dismissal. But for the cases where they have to
be dismissed, there has to be a link between the
criminal system and the civil commitment system. Meaning, look, if
the case has to be dismissed, they shouldn't just be
(04:32):
released without any services, without any connection to the community,
and just put out the door. There probably needs to
be an automatic handoffs to the civil system, meaning they're
going to still be in custody, but just not pending
criminal charges. The last thing I'd say is we've got
to expand the state hospital capacity. It's clear we just
(04:53):
don't have enough beds to deal with the state that's
suffering from tremendous mental health issues and many metrics to
state it ranks worst in the country for some of
these metrics on mental health outcomes and prevalence and mental
health issues. So we've got to look at expanding the
state mental hospital, particularly more into the Denver metro area.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
John two quick questions. How often are you aware that
the court's encounter cases and situations involving Colorado's competency law,
and one is too many when something tragic happens to that.
But is there a lot of data to show there's
a lot of this going on? Or are they, for
lack of a better term, one offs, but I'm not
dismissing those that have been impacted by this. And then secondly,
would incarcerating all these individuals be as expensive if not
(05:35):
more financially, since you try to look at the numbers,
even if it may be safer for society.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, and great question. I'll start with that last one. First,
the costume incarce rates somebody is about fifty eight thousand
dollars a year, sometimes sixty thousand dollars. The cost to
have somebody in an in patient restoration that is usually
over three hundred thousand dollars per year. So obviously cost
less incarce rate, but still run into that basic constitutional problem.
(06:02):
You can't incarcerate somebody who doesn't understand why they're there
or what's going on. You know, we've got to be
more focused on restoring those people to competency and having
the available bed space to do that. You know, in
terms of how prevalent. This is I can tell you
as a prosecutor for almost twenty years, it has exploded.
(06:23):
In the last ten years, you see more and more
of this, and I think part of that is because
there's a strain on our system. We have just not
enough beds to deal with a number of people in
our state who are suffering from mental health issues that
result in incompetency. And then I think there's you know,
at times, just a push for defense attorneys to say, look,
(06:44):
I'm going to put more and more people into this system,
get them checked out, and it creates a greater and
greater backlog. You know, That's really the problem here is
the state's under this consent decree. What we're paying about
twelve million dollars a year in fines just because we
have too many people on the wait list waiting too
long to get incompetency restoration services.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Common Sense Institute Criminal Justice Fellow John Kellner, Thank you,
Thank you,
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