Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kaoe News Time seven forty nine. The movie The Order
is now in theaters, about the nineteen eighty four murder
of KOI talk show host Alan Berg in the Aryan Brotherhood.
It is based on a book written by Denver City
Councilman Kevin Flynn and the late Gary Gerhardt.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You know what my problem is with every fanatic.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
The Order stars Jude Law and our next guest here
who plays the role of Alan Berg. You heard him
there in that audio clip. Actor, comedian, noted podcaster. It's
Mark Maren, who joins us now on Colorado's Morning News. Mark,
thank you so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
How did you first start with preparing to play this
role of Alan Berg?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Well, the interesting thing about the opportunity to play alan
Berg was I was offered this role and I knew
exactly who Alan Berg was, and I had been mildly obsessed,
like many people, with the horrible murder of Alan and
then you know, later we talk radio the Eric Pegsian thing.
(01:03):
But I had done some research on him when I
was younger. So when I got offered alan Berg, I said, well,
of course I'm going to play alan Berg. Who else
is who else is going to play alan Berg has
to meet me. So in terms of preparing, you know,
I listened to recordings of him, the ones that we
have found and that still existed. I did some research about,
(01:27):
you know, sort of where he came from, what was
going on with him. You had a little bit of Chicago.
He's a Chicago transplant, and you know about his head injury.
I did a lot of more research than you would
know from the few minutes I'm on screen, But I
was definitely into knowing who and being him in the process.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
You kind of allude to it, Mark that you were
aware of alan Berg prior to doing the role. Were
you aware of them years ago, decades ago? I mean,
you're a podcaster in your own right, a broadcaster, so
I would imagine some of that knowledge base because of
what you do in the space.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Sure, I mean, you know I knew about him when
I imagine the story of alan Berg was probably came
to my attention because of talk radio, because of Negotian's play,
and then I became fascinated and I remember trying to
read up about him. But it must have been a
long time ago because there was no internet, so I
(02:21):
was sort of obsessed with the story early on, and also,
you know, knowing that he was a Jewish guy and
I'm a Jewish guy, and these are the kinds of
things that can happen. And if it's very I guess
the word would be preciant or sad that this movie
is sort of a morning this is whatever happened in
(02:42):
that movie. The possibility of it happening now is you know,
is one hundredfold, as is the number of groups that
were like the order, So you know, it's heavy stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Mark, That's where I wanted to go with it a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Was racism or the backlash that Berg received something that
you've ever related to to in any way, Like you mentioned,
coming from a Jewish family on both sides, both of
you have the media personalities, and he's a very outspoken
talk show host. Have you ever dealt with anything like
that in your way?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, yeah, of course. I mean you know, all you
got to do is go online for three minutes and
you can see just a tsunami of anti Semitic storers
and racism. I mean, it's very easily accessed and there
you know, we live in a time where you know,
you have to figure out how to just deflect it
(03:34):
or let it roll off you, because we live in
a troll culture of it. Yeah, certainly I've dealt with that,
and there was part of taking the role that was
kind of me hoping that, well, maybe if I do
this in a movie, it won't happen to me in
real life.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
This is forty years ago, mark, Have things gotten better
or worse?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I don't know. Man, From where I'm sitting, it looks
a lot worse. I don't know that there's any way
other than that to look at that question or what's
happening in the culture. Just the idea or the fact
that the Order was a unique situation that was at
the sort of beginning of this movement. I mean, but
(04:12):
it was relatively isolated. You know, that was the original
domestic terrorist American Nazi, Christian fascist operation. And now I
would bet it's uncountable. There's got to be at least
I don't even want to say numbers, but there's a
whole network of groups not unlike that working now. So
(04:35):
I think that it's gotten much worse. I don't think
it's cyclical. I think we're in a new thing, and
you know, maybe it'll be the beginning of a cycle.
But this, whatever is happening now is certainly terrifying in
New for America.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Do you blame that on social media or is there
something else deeper going on you think for the culture
in the country.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I don't know. It seems like social media helped to
grease the wheels of whatever was bad in the world.
I mean, you know, obviously there's a good element too.
I don't know. Something about people, if there's any cycle,
is that you know, people are not They're not great
A lot of them, and what they're willing to do
(05:15):
to maintain power and to stay on the side that
makes them feel empowered historically can get pretty ugly. But
I don't know that the blame is on social media.
It's just, you know, there's some failing, you know, going
on in terms with the idea of democracy. Probably on
both sides. People are animals, buddy, I mean that's you know,
(05:36):
what are you.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Going to do? The final broadcast you perform of Alan
Berg for KOA Listeners is very eerie to watch. I mean,
you have Ko's call letters right there. You look the
part obviously, so from the history in Koa's perspective, the
script that is written in that final broadcast.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Is it similar is it completely different?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And how did you go about delivering what was alan
Berg's final broadcast?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Justin Kurtzel, the director had you know, really kind of
he had a few transcripts of stuff, like oddly because
of the way radio worked, and there's not a lot
around Do you have any of it down there at
the studio.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I know we're going to start digging for a lot
of that because of the one hundredth anniversary of KOA,
and I know that was something that we were looking for.
I found online the broadcast once they announced alen Berg's
murder and the coverage that they had of it here
at KOA, But that last broadcast. I was even digging
for it at the time, and I couldn't find it
as well.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
No, because no one kept radio. Radio was like disposable.
I mean, I did morning radio for a year and
a half, you know, and this was you know, in
two thousand and four, and you know, there's not a
lot of recordings of a lot of that. It's just
this interesting, you know, sad thing that it was just
day of stuff, especially live radio. So there's bits and
(06:50):
pieces of him and there were a couple of transcripts,
and I don't know that that is the I don't
know if that is a script from his last broadcast,
because Jay and you know, Alan Berg and I are
not so different in our way of thinking and our
way of provoking on you know, some days, certainly when
I was in the booth doing those doing that stuff,
(07:13):
or the booth that we created, I was improvising a lot.
After a certain point. You know, there were there were
departure points in the script that I needed to hit,
but you know, he just kept me going, like I
was just on the mic, and you know, I would
do the bid and then you go, keep going, keep going,
like it was really intense that that it's a small theme,
but the director was right there just like telling me
(07:36):
to just keep improvising. So so I would assume that
that is not a transcript that you saw in the
movie of his last broadcast. It is a mixture of
some of his words and some of the writer's words
and some of my words.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Whether it's this role, whether it's what you currently do
when you go out on tour and or do your podcast,
do you find that there's a chilling effect sometimes with
what you think and what you say because of wanting
to be safe and protect yourself totally.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Man. I mean like I'm you know, I'm already paranoid
and I'm a little self centered and but you know,
well you just don't know, man. And yes, it's very scary,
and I don't think it's going to get any less
scary because however this is going to work in the
next four years, we have no idea, man. But you know,
there's sentiment and divisivenesses that they are and there's plenty
(08:30):
of guns and plenty of angry, if not and or
mentally ill people out there. Look, yes, it's scary, there's
no doubt. Is it a real threat to me personally?
I don't know. In my head? Do things get ugly? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Two part question for you, Mark, what do you hope
modern audiences learn from Alan Berg's death? And a lot
of people listening right now, but you have also even
listened to Berg back in the day, So what do
you have to say to them?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I think something like that, something you know, like that
isn't an assassination, you know, for political intent. I think
that it has a profound impact on people. I mean,
it's horribly up setting and tragic, and you don't know
how you know, somebody that could be your neighbor could
could either think along the lines it would cause something
(09:21):
like that or you know, God's bid do it. I
think that, like you were talking about before, that this
is the kind of thing that makes terror. It's terrorism,
so you know, it makes people terrify, to seek up,
to do things, to have opposing views to you know,
what is now seemingly a dominant cultural force. You know,
(09:43):
all the effects of what comes from terrorism, and now
in cohooits with what seems to be an authoritarian regime
coming into America. I mean, it just all adds up
and in that you know, people are scared of thinking
the way they think and speaking the way they want
to speak, so and they're scared for their lives. So
(10:05):
I mean that's the impact of an act of terror.
But now that it's you know, kind of I don't
want to you know, do two broad strokes or or
make too many insinuations. But but there's a point of
view of this thing, an ideological point of view of
this terrorist organization that has been openly supported by the
(10:27):
party in charge.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Now he portrays the late Alan Berg of Koa radio
in the movie called The Order. He's actor, comedian, a
noted podcaster, Mark Miron Mark real honored to talk with
you and thank you so much for your time to
talk about this.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Thanks for having me
Kaoe News Time seven forty nine. The movie The Order
is now in theaters, about the nineteen eighty four murder
of KOI talk show host Alan Berg in the Aryan Brotherhood.
It is based on a book written by Denver City
Councilman Kevin Flynn and the late Gary Gerhardt.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You know what my problem is with every fanatic.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
The Order stars Jude Law and our next guest here
who plays the role of Alan Berg. You heard him
there in that audio clip. Actor, comedian, noted podcaster. It's
Mark Maren, who joins us now on Colorado's Morning News. Mark,
thank you so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Well, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
How did you first start with preparing to play this
role of Alan Berg?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Well, the interesting thing about the opportunity to play alan
Berg was I was offered this role and I knew
exactly who Alan Berg was, and I had been mildly obsessed,
like many people, with the horrible murder of Alan and
then you know, later we talk radio the Eric Pegsian thing.
(01:03):
But I had done some research on him when I
was younger. So when I got offered alan Berg, I said, well,
of course I'm going to play alan Berg. Who else
is who else is going to play alan Berg has
to meet me. So in terms of preparing, you know,
I listened to recordings of him, the ones that we
have found and that still existed. I did some research about,
(01:27):
you know, sort of where he came from, what was
going on with him. You had a little bit of Chicago.
He's a Chicago transplant, and you know about his head injury.
I did a lot of more research than you would
know from the few minutes I'm on screen, But I
was definitely into knowing who and being him in the process.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
You kind of allude to it, Mark that you were
aware of alan Berg prior to doing the role. Were
you aware of them years ago, decades ago? I mean,
you're a podcaster in your own right, a broadcaster, so
I would imagine some of that knowledge base because of
what you do in the space.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Sure, I mean, you know I knew about him when
I imagine the story of alan Berg was probably came
to my attention because of talk radio, because of Negotian's play,
and then I became fascinated and I remember trying to
read up about him. But it must have been a
long time ago because there was no internet, so I
(02:21):
was sort of obsessed with the story early on, and also,
you know, knowing that he was a Jewish guy and
I'm a Jewish guy, and these are the kinds of
things that can happen. And if it's very I guess
the word would be preciant or sad that this movie
is sort of a morning this is whatever happened in
(02:42):
that movie. The possibility of it happening now is you know,
is one hundredfold, as is the number of groups that
were like the order, So you know, it's heavy stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Mark, That's where I wanted to go with it a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Was racism or the backlash that Berg received something that
you've ever related to to in any way, Like you mentioned,
coming from a Jewish family on both sides, both of
you have the media personalities, and he's a very outspoken
talk show host. Have you ever dealt with anything like
that in your way?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, yeah, of course. I mean you know, all you
got to do is go online for three minutes and
you can see just a tsunami of anti Semitic storers
and racism. I mean, it's very easily accessed and there
you know, we live in a time where you know,
you have to figure out how to just deflect it
(03:34):
or let it roll off you, because we live in
a troll culture of it. Yeah, certainly I've dealt with that,
and there was part of taking the role that was
kind of me hoping that, well, maybe if I do
this in a movie, it won't happen to me in
real life.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
This is forty years ago, mark, Have things gotten better
or worse?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
I don't know. Man, From where I'm sitting, it looks
a lot worse. I don't know that there's any way
other than that to look at that question or what's
happening in the culture. Just the idea or the fact
that the Order was a unique situation that was at
the sort of beginning of this movement. I mean, but
(04:12):
it was relatively isolated. You know, that was the original
domestic terrorist American Nazi, Christian fascist operation. And now I
would bet it's uncountable. There's got to be at least
I don't even want to say numbers, but there's a
whole network of groups not unlike that working now. So
(04:35):
I think that it's gotten much worse. I don't think
it's cyclical. I think we're in a new thing, and
you know, maybe it'll be the beginning of a cycle.
But this, whatever is happening now is certainly terrifying in
New for America.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Do you blame that on social media or is there
something else deeper going on you think for the culture
in the country.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I don't know. It seems like social media helped to
grease the wheels of whatever was bad in the world.
I mean, you know, obviously there's a good element too.
I don't know. Something about people, if there's any cycle,
is that you know, people are not They're not great
A lot of them, and what they're willing to do
(05:15):
to maintain power and to stay on the side that
makes them feel empowered historically can get pretty ugly. But
I don't know that the blame is on social media.
It's just, you know, there's some failing, you know, going
on in terms with the idea of democracy. Probably on
both sides. People are animals, buddy, I mean that's you know,
(05:36):
what are you.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Going to do? The final broadcast you perform of Alan
Berg for KOA Listeners is very eerie to watch. I mean,
you have Ko's call letters right there. You look the
part obviously, so from the history in Koa's perspective, the
script that is written in that final broadcast.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Is it similar is it completely different?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And how did you go about delivering what was alan
Berg's final broadcast?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Justin Kurtzel, the director had you know, really kind of
he had a few transcripts of stuff, like oddly because
of the way radio worked, and there's not a lot
around Do you have any of it down there at
the studio.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I know we're going to start digging for a lot
of that because of the one hundredth anniversary of KOA,
and I know that was something that we were looking for.
I found online the broadcast once they announced alen Berg's
murder and the coverage that they had of it here
at KOA, But that last broadcast. I was even digging
for it at the time, and I couldn't find it
as well.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
No, because no one kept radio. Radio was like disposable.
I mean, I did morning radio for a year and
a half, you know, and this was you know, in
two thousand and four, and you know, there's not a
lot of recordings of a lot of that. It's just
this interesting, you know, sad thing that it was just
day of stuff, especially live radio. So there's bits and
(06:50):
pieces of him and there were a couple of transcripts,
and I don't know that that is the I don't
know if that is a script from his last broadcast,
because Jay and you know, Alan Berg and I are
not so different in our way of thinking and our
way of provoking on you know, some days, certainly when
I was in the booth doing those doing that stuff,
(07:13):
or the booth that we created, I was improvising a lot.
After a certain point. You know, there were there were
departure points in the script that I needed to hit,
but you know, he just kept me going, like I
was just on the mic, and you know, I would
do the bid and then you go, keep going, keep going,
like it was really intense that that it's a small theme,
but the director was right there just like telling me
(07:36):
to just keep improvising. So so I would assume that
that is not a transcript that you saw in the
movie of his last broadcast. It is a mixture of
some of his words and some of the writer's words
and some of my words.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Whether it's this role, whether it's what you currently do
when you go out on tour and or do your podcast,
do you find that there's a chilling effect sometimes with
what you think and what you say because of wanting
to be safe and protect yourself totally.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Man. I mean like I'm you know, I'm already paranoid
and I'm a little self centered and but you know,
well you just don't know, man. And yes, it's very scary,
and I don't think it's going to get any less
scary because however this is going to work in the
next four years, we have no idea, man. But you know,
there's sentiment and divisivenesses that they are and there's plenty
(08:30):
of guns and plenty of angry, if not and or
mentally ill people out there. Look, yes, it's scary, there's
no doubt. Is it a real threat to me personally?
I don't know. In my head? Do things get ugly? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Two part question for you, Mark, what do you hope
modern audiences learn from Alan Berg's death? And a lot
of people listening right now, but you have also even
listened to Berg back in the day, So what do
you have to say to them?
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I think something like that, something you know, like that
isn't an assassination, you know, for political intent. I think
that it has a profound impact on people. I mean,
it's horribly up setting and tragic, and you don't know
how you know, somebody that could be your neighbor could
could either think along the lines it would cause something
(09:21):
like that or you know, God's bid do it. I
think that, like you were talking about before, that this
is the kind of thing that makes terror. It's terrorism,
so you know, it makes people terrify, to seek up,
to do things, to have opposing views to you know,
what is now seemingly a dominant cultural force. You know,
(09:43):
all the effects of what comes from terrorism, and now
in cohooits with what seems to be an authoritarian regime
coming into America. I mean, it just all adds up
and in that you know, people are scared of thinking
the way they think and speaking the way they want
to speak, so and they're scared for their lives. So
(10:05):
I mean that's the impact of an act of terror.
But now that it's you know, kind of I don't
want to you know, do two broad strokes or or
make too many insinuations. But but there's a point of
view of this thing, an ideological point of view of
this terrorist organization that has been openly supported by the
(10:27):
party in charge.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Now he portrays the late Alan Berg of Koa radio
in the movie called The Order. He's actor, comedian, a
noted podcaster, Mark Miron Mark real honored to talk with
you and thank you so much for your time to
talk about this.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Thanks for having me
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