Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He stay Logan, Ryan and were shlby Harrison's studio. Though, honestly,
once again you show up wearing those kinds of clothes,
and honestly, we should really should have a conversation about this.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You get you're part of You're part of us where.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We hang out, You're you're a Rockies Opening Day on Friday,
and you show up.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
In Brewers here something about no question, baby, no question.
The Bruises are in town today, and that's the thing.
I will root for the Rockies if they're not playing
the Brewers.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
That's understandable.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Dave bruts for the Yankees.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I'm from.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Uh is that from that day drill show? Yeah, I'm
not yelling. Very excited to be here with you. I
have obviously a lot to get to.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I mean, for the next three hours. Dave, Mike Malone,
Calvin Booth have both been let go. You have three
games left in the regular season. The Nuggets, who are
currently the four seed, are fighting. They're gonna be in
the playoffs or at least a play in, but not a
(01:13):
lock whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So what was your reaction to the news.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
No, I was, I think I was like pretty much
everybody else.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I did not see that coming. Now, if you just said.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
The Nuggets are going to get in the playoffs and
have a quick ouster, then is it possible that both
Malone and Booth are gone? I would have said, yeah,
I think so, I really think so. But no, I
didn't see it coming with three games left in the
regular season. But you and I Ryan did talk about
(01:45):
this either yesterday or the day before. The body language
of that team has not been good the last few games.
Now you can say well, I mean Westbrook addressed it
in the locker room and said, hey, I'm just tired
of losing, and so yeah, when you lose, it's not
a lot of fun. I don't care how much money
(02:06):
you're making.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
It's just not me. It's not fun. But the body.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Language on the bench, the body language at times on
the court, the body language when players were coming off
the court getting to the bench.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I mean, I'm big on just.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Watching observing all of that, and it was really not good.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
So but man, I got to be honest about it.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
I can't sit here and say yeah, I mean I
thought this could happen with three games left in the
regular season.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
This is out of nowhere. I go out of nowhere.
But it's just if you think about the grand scheme
of things, the Nuggets have been struggling the second happened
the season, But to make a move for but three
games left in the regular season, that to being makes
it seem like you're throwing in the towel and it's like,
all right, let's focus on next year. But when the
(02:55):
West is completely wide open, and I think the Nuggets
still have a team that can go out there and
compet with anybody, it's just you go from winning the
championship two years ago to firing your head coach. It's
just if you look at around the league and you
look at the Milwaukee Bucks and doing that with Bud
bab like, it just doesn't necessarily add up to success
(03:17):
later on. And if you would have told, like like
Dave said, if you would have told me earlier and
earlier in the day that, like, you know, if the
Nuggets don't make a long playoff run, they might switch coaching,
I would believe it. But to you know, fire your
coach three games left and you still don't even have
a playoffs spot, you know locked up? Now, did Memphis
(03:38):
doing what they did? You know, make it okay? I
don't know, but it's just it's tough to really put
in the words what this means for the Nuggets because
for me, that tells me that they don't think they're
going to win.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And that's an that's interesting point you bring up. Right,
Sorry to step on there, but this is a interesting
point you bring up because in a lot of ways
accords Josh Cronkey, who is put out a statement as
well as has done a quick interview that they just
posted on their social media accounts. He's saying that this
is about actually trying to compete this year. Still, it's
a weird thing because it sends a message like, as players,
(04:12):
I imagine if your coach is getting fired, that's not
the first thing you think of, like, hey, this is
an investment in us. This is a belief that we
are going to be a championship team, especially with three
games for many in the regular season.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I mean, I don't know, maybe you could tell.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Me otherwise how a player might react to this news.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Oh, I think this is a much deeper seated issue.
And I think, honestly, although the players might not say so,
in fact, I doubt they would say so publicly, I'm
guessing there are players in that locker room that more
or less expected something to happen. I think that's how
(04:52):
bad we're talking. We're talking about very unlikely, very unlikely,
that none of those players were sort of giving a
heads up, talked to, brought in, hey, how are things?
Tell me what's going on? Very very very unlikely. Now
(05:16):
they don't have to say it publicly because it puts
them in a bad position. But I don't for a
minute think that this possibility wasn't discussed. I don't for
a minute think this just came out of like thin air,
like Josh and stand said, well, listen, we don't like
(05:37):
where we are right now, and we're going to fire
both Calvin Booth and Michael Malone.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Not for a minute do I believe that.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
So I think I think there has been I mean,
we and again this is nothing new, and we talked about,
you know, a lot of things on the show, but
we've talked about there's been a disconnect between the front
office and the head coach, between Calvin Booth and Michael
Malone for quite.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Some time in terms of you know, how.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Malone utilizes his bench, who gets tick, who gets playing time,
who doesn't, and so I think that, and I you know,
Michael Malone, I've always liked him, I really have. You know,
I haven't always agreed with everything he's done, but I
mean he's you know, professional coaches live their lives in
(06:27):
a fish bawl. We get a chance to sit back
and evaluate every single move that they make.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Why would he do that? Well? What the hell is
he thinking about? There?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
But I've always admired him because I think he I
think he I think he brought toughness to the organization.
I think he tried to bring accountability. Not perfect. I
didn't think he was a perfect coach in any shape
or form. But I think this was I mean, this
has been brewing, I believe for quite some time. And
(06:56):
I think we're going to find out within the next
probably forty eight hours, that there was there was a
tipping point incident that took place that just sort of
and then, you know, whatever metaphor you want to use,
(07:17):
push the wagon over the line. I mean whatever, I
think we will. I think there will be much talk
about that within the next couple of days.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, Dave. Dave's completely right, though, because you don't go
from winning a championship a year like two years before
or to firing your coach. So there's going to be
something that's going to come out where it's going to
be you know, this is what happened, and they had
to react to it because it was obviously you either
lost the locker room or or you lost your best player,
(07:46):
you know what I mean. I doubt that the Cooliochus
went in there and had no clue Indians this stuff
was going to happen, and so obviously, you know, he
had to sign off on it, or someone had to
sign off on it and be like this is okay
to do now. It's a lot of stuff that you know,
people don't know about the notes that's going on. Obviously
that's going on behind the scenes. But like I said,
(08:07):
just the timing of it. It's really just a confusing part.
But my heart always goes out whenever you see someone
getting fired, you see somebody getting let go. That means
that families are getting uprooted, That means coaches are going
to lose her, that means assistant coaches are going to
lose their job. And you know, it's never a good
feeling because, like you said, like Mike Maloney has a
he has a daughter, in high school, you know what
I mean, Like you got like this, people's real lives
(08:29):
involved in this, and everyone's going to get uprooted. And
like you can talk about the money and be like, oh,
they're going to be fine with this or that, but
those you know, those kids still have to live with
you know, moving cities and doing that, and families have
to up up, you know, uprooted and move their different city.
And I think, you know, we we lose the human
factor of this just because it's our favorite teams and
(08:50):
we're talking sports and it's like, Okay, that's fine, but
you know, these people's lives have just gotten you know, uprooted.
So you know, it's it's it's a sad day. And
I think that I think that fans of general say
this is a sad day because you know, Mike Malone
took him to a place where they.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Haven't been and he's been there for ten years, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And so he's entrenched in the community, and so after
ten years of making a change. You know. It's one
thing I will always say though, is you know, he
had a hell of a time in Denver and they
built one of the best teams that we've seen in
a long time and so on that you know, you
can't help but feel for Mike Malone because of everything
(09:30):
that he's done for this team. But you know, I'm
not going to be the one to say that it
didn't look like they needed a change, because they did
look like they needed a change.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, I'm glad you brought up the family part of it,
because I think I think he does get lost often,
and that's why I tend to not want to be
too casual with this guy should be fired, that guy
should be fired, because I think you know you're around
this business long enough. They know, we know, we all
know that you don't usually get to lee.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
On your own terms. That's not usually the case. You're high.
I think was a Dion that said recently, you're hired
to be fired.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
That's exactly right with coach GM, whatever it is players oftentimes.
I mean, it's just what the nature of the business is.
I don't think we need to rub anybody's face. And again,
what it gets lost, as you said, the human part
of it, because not even just the coach and the GM,
it's their assistance too. It's the families that sort of
impact that too, and again, I understand from the sports
angle of it that's kind of where we live in.
(10:21):
But I agree that that part often times gets overlooked.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
But we get judged by wins and losses in this
league and then any pro league, it's wins and losses.
And then if you know the tide is turning one
way or another and you know they're going to do
anything they can get correct it, and it's just another
example of that.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
You talked about the tipping point.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And this has been the speculation now on social media
since this happened, is how much of a role did
Nikola Jokic have potentially in any of this Because.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
We've talked about it.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
It's like, hey, Malon's not going anywhere unless Nicola Jokic
is good with it, right, And it doesn't mean that
he was the one that marched into Josh Kronky's office
that says you've got to fired this dude. But it
would blow my mind if Josh Cronky didn't at least
chat with Nikola Jokic ahead of time and give him
a bit of a heads up.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
You just don't do that with without.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
The Maybe blessing is a strong word for your franchise player,
but at least an understanding and awareness.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, I think there's more.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
I believe there would be more players involved than just Jokic.
And again I'm not I'm not intimating that this initiative
came from the players, but I believe that the front
office felt like the locker room had been lost and
(11:38):
they just weren't ready to call it a day on
the season because let's let's face it and be honest.
And again, we've we've talked about this the last the
last week or so a couple of weeks with with
the way this team is played, the way they're playing
right now, and again, they've been banged up, No Jamal
Murray ag has been in and out of the lineup,
mostly in recently. Jokisch has had, you know, some time
(12:02):
where he's missed. They've had inconsistent play from a few guys.
But the way they're playing right now, they're they're going
to be quickly ousted in the playoffs. So you know,
my my belief is that there was a conclusion reached
(12:24):
by the Nuggets front office that the locker room had
been lost.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
I believe there was a there was.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I don't want to say an incident, but there there
was something that became the tipping point, and it happened
recently to where the nugget Brass.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Felt compelled to make this move for both of them.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
If I don't know about with Calvin Booth, what I've
been told was with Michael Malone. Now you job to
think about this. We've watched the NBA for a long
long time. Grew up here in Denver when they were
in the ABA back in the early seventies, even even
(13:11):
late sixties.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Right, So when's the last time.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
A coach I was trying to think about this driving
in today that is I mean firmly going to be
in the playoffs? Right, was fired with three games left
before his team went into the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I saw somewhere that it was it's tied for the
latest time a coach has ever been fired.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I don't know who that example is. I'll see if
I can find it. Yeah, but I don't know if
they were heading into the postseason or not. I mean,
to your point, you talk about Memphis firing their coach,
that was just a few I mean they had nine
game for meatings ago.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
If you're going to fire a coach.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Let's just say you're going to fire a coach because
he's not winning enough games, sir, even firing him like
in mid season, an interim head coach, or you wait
till the season ends, you evaluate, you have your exit interviews,
and then you pull the trigger at that point.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Pretty typical fire you fire a guy that is.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
I mean, as Shelby said, I mean, we all know
a couple of years ago, was the head coach of
the NBA champions Last year, I mean, had a disappointing
playoff run, but still got into the playoffs at a
seven game series with Minnesota, lost three games at home.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Didn't It didn't. It didn't work out this year.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I mean, it's been it's been a bumpy it's been
a rollercoaster of a ride.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
But still now the.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Nuggets are three games from making the playoffs, and both
the head coach and the GM get terminated.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
So I think that.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Again, I believe there was there was a tipping point,
something that took place, and coupled with the front office,
came to the conclusion and probably they had been working
on this, that the locker room had been lost. The
overall attitude of the team was completely in the dumper,
(15:09):
and so we're going to do this anyway, and this
at least gives us a chance because I think the
management looks at this team and thinks we can still
make a run.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Haven't believe that, right.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
They legitimately believe that.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And I think that's the thing we have to almost
lead off every discussion with is the fact, the fact
we can find flaws in it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I'm not saying there are flaws in that logic.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I'm saying that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Is the answer to why now, because that has been
the question from the beginning, is like why now?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
The why now is we think we can win a championship.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
They literally put that out of a pression.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
There's a little more, though, to answer your question about
why now, there's a little more than we still think
we can win a championship.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
I think that is in.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Addition too, we still think we can win a championship.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
But there there was a tipping point incident.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
A tipping point, but three games left in the regular season.
I'll tell you the one thing that this tells me
it is a little panic in the Nugget organization. But
then two, it tells me it could be either or
a bolt. The MPJ and Jamal Murray are gone, or
it's one or the other, because you're doing that move
(16:20):
right there, kind of tells me that you didn't agree
like that. It's really the firing of the general manager.
It's the future that I think also is the issue.
And so it's like, are we going to keep repeating
the same process of with the same team and going
to the second round in the playoffs and losing, or
we're going to try to revamp this and while Jokers
still in his best years and then go out there
(16:42):
and try to build a better team around him that
kind of utilizes his his his abilities more. But it's
just to be three games left in the regular season,
and you can't try to tell me at the same
time that you plan on competing because though these are
two different moves that have nothing to do with trying
to compete at this moment.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So Hubet Brown was fired by the Hawks in nineteen
eighty one with three games remaining, so.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's what ties firing Cubert Brown.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
But they only had thirty one wins on the season,
so different circumstances completely. So that's that's thank you for
Grant and Alan Jacksonville.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So we can conclude based on on.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
That that we've never seen this, never seen it no
in NBA history where a coach where a team is
heading into the playoffs and with three games left in
the regular season, I mean, forget the fact that they
won it two years ago. Three games left in the
regular season. Well, that's what I'm saying, and.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
That's that I've been on a team where the coach
got fired. It didn't talent got fired on the flight
home from London after we got everything in London by Miami,
and he got fired, and that tells us that we
weren't good enough. And so it's either that's the statement,
(18:01):
or like Dave said, there's some real behind the scenes
stuff that's going on where they had to make that move.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Now the job is down, you can go home now.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Apparently it's it's pretty wild speaking of that, And you
talked about obviously the Memphis High firing their coach and
this was put out. It's almost as soon as it happened, right.
So we've seen some examples. Nick Nurse with the Raptors
where they won a championship in twenty nineteen, he was
fired in twenty twenty three. Frank Vogel won a championship
with the Lakers in twenty twenty he was fired two
years later.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Similar, we we know why he was fired.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
We know why he was fired, Buddenolzer. You mentioned him.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
They won in the championship in twenty twenty one, he
was fired in twenty twenty three. Steve Kerr won in
twenty twenty two, Mike Malone twenty twenty three, Championship twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So, I mean, this is a I mean, it's a trend.
It's a trend until it's not, and.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
It's a trend.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
But can we talk about the crazy expectations after a championship?
And I think that's what you're seeing a lot of
it's a lot of hair coaches. There's a lot of
head coaches got gotten fired the second year you.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Have a best player the world winning championship.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
I think I think you need to go back and
look at that, at that list, because I think there
there are similar characteristics with all of those and I'm
not sure that characteristic. I'm not sure it exists here
in Denver. I think when you when you talk about
let's just talk about the Lakers situation, right, I mean
(19:22):
that that was by all accounts Lebron could not.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I mean, that just was not going to work.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
I don't I don't believe that this is a player
driven move. But I do believe that the front office
concluded that the locker room had been severely damaged fractured
maybe fractured is a good word, and that they weren't
(19:52):
going to be able to sort of coalesce that locker
room in a very short period of time and then
make a run into the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I'm just saying it is.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
I don't know that we've seen, you know, three games
left in a season with the team heading to the playoffs,
both the GM and the head coach are out the door.
I just don't think this was not a decision. I
think there was a tipping point incident that took place,
but I thought, I think this is a decision that
was being pondered for the last handful of months.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
This is a player driven league. Is out of most
all the leagues, it's the most player driven league. I agree, highly,
highly doubt that this happened without some type of player input.
Give them the okay that this is okay to happen.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
We're off ly here on a Tuesday. Dave Logan Ryan
and Rachelby Harris. When we come back for checking with
our guy Adam Maris. Get his perspective. He's kind of
a historian for the team, very plugged in. Get his thoughts,
maybe some more information we'll get to the next Then
Michael Malone and Calvin Booth are both out with the
Denver Nuggets and to help us give us perspective auto
(21:03):
right now, we head out to the Kai Commisperit Health
hotline and bring on a good friend of the program.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Adam mahra Is from d n v R. Adam.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Always great to catch up with you, my friend, and
certainly on a very busy day for you, we appreciate it.
You're all with Dave Logan, Shelby Harrison, Ryan Edwards.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
How are you, fellows.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
I'm doing good.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
What a surprise to the system today. Not how I
thought this day was going to go.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
No, I think I think we're all surprised.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
So when you when you first heard the news, what
were the first two or three things that went through
your mind?
Speaker 6 (21:35):
The first thing was, now you know that. I think
that this was something that was brewing behind the scenes
for a while. I think it was a question they
were going to have to confront in the offseason should
this postseason not gone, you know, successfully, The bar for
this team is championship or bust, and will be as
long as Yokich is in his prime, which is, in
(21:55):
my opinion, playing the best basketball of his career. And
I think everybody sense that this wasn't going the way
they were hoping, but the timing of this so I
thought this was something that I was prepared for a
month or two from now, that the team, if they
come up short, they'd have to revisit and maybe go
a new direction. But to do it with three games remaining,
to me, tells me a lot. It tells me about
(22:17):
the sense of urgency that the organization felt and maybe
even in some twisted way, a little hope that they
have that this year is not completely unsalvageable. Obviously it's
a long shot, but if you fire a coach with
three games remaining, you have to believe that your chances
of succeeding were zero, and that firing a coach, no
(22:39):
matter how unlikely it is that a team rallies this
late in the season around it is somewhere north of zero.
So that's what went through my head. As soon as
I heard the news, I was shocked and I immediately
went to that decision tree of how could they arrive
at this point?
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Is Shelby Harris?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Here? Just my biggest question, I guess, is what is next?
What let's say, let's just say that there is an
early exit like we thought there would be with the Nuggets,
or like you know, with the way the season's been going,
what is next? Is David Alavin at a legit head
coaching candidate, It's a short list. Is Chauncey Billups reunion?
(23:19):
Maybe in the picture? Like what is next to the Nuggets?
I guess moving forward?
Speaker 6 (23:24):
Well, I say this with complete confidence that at least
the basketball portion of this, there is now no better
opportunity in the NBA, nor will there be a better
opportunity than the one that Denver Nuggets had. If you're
a coach, I mean, money is always going to be
a factor. With the kron Keys, they've not been owners
who are willing to spend, you know, extensively at that spot.
So there are some organizations that just throw money. I mean,
(23:47):
we see the Phoenix Suns have hired three coaches in
three years, and they've given five year deals to all
of them, and they might fire their current coach and
go to a fourth one they give a big deal too,
So the kron Keys have never operated that way. But
if you just look at Nikolai Yokitch in my opinion
as one of the ten best players of all time,
if you want to really get say, top twenty players
of all time, whatever, he's one of the greatest players
(24:09):
we've ever seen, and he's as low maintenance as any
of the great players all time. He is a guy
that works hard, does his job. It doesn't have off
court drama. He is who he is. So you look
at that and say, what coach would not want that?
And front office what front office would want not want
to come in and try to be the architect of
a championship team around an all time great. So David
(24:31):
Adelman is somebody who has a lot of experience with
the players. He's known as a very smart EX'ES and
O strategist and a very clear thinker. I have no
idea the leadership portion of that, And I think coaching
in the NBA is as much about leadership as it
is about the you know, the X is and o's
portion of it. So I have no idea there, but
I do know that the team respects him and that
(24:52):
he is he has thought of as a strategic visionary.
So he'll have his opportunity in this playoff run. Maybe
informs a lot out of that, but I have to
imagine the Kronkis will open up their search since this.
They can probably have the pick of the litter on
who comes in here next.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Adamara is joining us here from D and VR. We
were talking about it right before he came on about
how much maybe the players, specifically Nicole Jokic, were involved
in this process.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It is a player's league after all, the NBA.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
So in your opinion, how much do you think Josh
Kronki weighed this decision on Nicola.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
So I think this is a double edged short And
one of the things about Yoki, she has given his
input on player personnel and certain decisions, and at points
behind the scenes even sort of ben adamant when asked,
I don't know that he's gone out of his way
and said, hey, do this deal or make this guy
or bring this guy in. But I do know they've
consulted him on hey, we're thinking of this, do you
(25:50):
like it or not? And you know, he'll kind of
give his approval, I think, putting him in the position of, hey,
we want to fire him alone, should we do it?
I don't imagine the conversation happened like that, but I
also imagine that he was consulted in some way so
that they knew how he would respond to this. You
do not want to fire a coach go into an
off season where your cornerstone piece is unhappy, so that
(26:11):
I have to imagine that they had conversations with him
that at least broach the subject of this is something
that we're thinking about doing. Would it put you out
if it were to happen?
Speaker 5 (26:21):
And final question for me, is there any way to
gauge a realistic expectation.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
From Nuggets fans.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
Perspective with respect to this playoff season given what has
just happened today.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
Well, I look at that from two angles. The first
one is, as I mentioned before, Nikola Jokich is a
three time MVP and one of the greatest players ever,
and this is the best he's ever been. I think
you owe it to the organization, to the city, to
the fan base to say we're not giving up. Sometimes
teams get new life under new leadership and there's new
(27:00):
strategies that you can implement. Is there enough runway for
a team to fully absorb that? I have a really
hard time believing that. But as long as Jokich is
here and in his prime, championship is the only success.
That being said, if I'm trying to take off that
cap and then put on the what should I actually expect?
Denver is good enough to win around in the playoffs
and when you get to that second round, and depending
(27:22):
on who you match up in the first.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Round, is gonna be tough.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
But when you get to that second round and you
start to really lock in, is Denver able to develop
a defensive identity that can hang at that level? It's
not a long runway and probably not, But again, the
talent is there as long as you have yochish to
get it to happen. So for me, I don't have
high hopes that they're making it back to the conference
finals or finals, but I also see a way. To me,
(27:46):
this makes the season more interesting because I think I
saw the finish line. You know, if Malone were to
stay and at least now you can say crazier things
have happened.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I have one last question, and so what do you
think this means for the future of everyone on his team?
Not named the Kola Yokich right, So what like what
really you know, a new GM comes in, has no
loyalty to Ale Jamal, Aaron Gordon or MPJ. A new
head coach comes there's no loyals to there, so kind
of what what does this mean for the future of everyone?
Speaker 6 (28:19):
I think this is going to be the most eventful
summer of the Jokich era. And there's been some interesting ones,
there have been some moves, but you're absolutely right. When
the GM comes in here we all talk about new
owner syndrome, and in sports in general, new owner comes in,
he wants to make a stamp right away, make some
kind of splash. I think a GM is going to
look at this and say, Jokis is thirty. He's going
(28:40):
to be thirty one next year. The clock is ticking.
This is not a slow play. We know what this
team is. And I have a hunch that if there
was a veteran general manager brought in the first line
he will say in his interview is Jokis is ten
years into the league, three time MVP, and he has
never played with another All Star, All Defensive Player or
All NBA player in his ten years here, that will
(29:01):
not happen next year. So my hunch is, yes, this
is a situation where you look at it and say,
Jokic is untouchable everybody else. We have to pair him
with a star player, a co star that is worthy
of him and at his best. To moll was that
But if he's injured again this year and it's been inconsistent,
I think everybody will be on the table.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, no doubt, last one I have.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
If you're speaking to Nicola jokicch and you said three
time MVP, because we all are mostly expecting at this
point that Shay Gilgers Alexander is going to win. The
fatigue of voting for Nikolay Jokich seems to be setting
in because he once again is having the best season
of his career. Do you think he can get back
into the MVP conversation as students next year or do
(29:42):
you think that the voting public at this point feels
like they've given this as much as they can and
he can really never top what he's already shown us
year in a year out.
Speaker 6 (29:54):
I don't think that is the case at all. I
think every year he is going to be in the
conversation for him, at least for the foreseeable future. He
puts these numbers up effortlessly. I mean, this is not
a he had a hot month here, a hot month there.
He does it every single night. He's so consistently dominant
that his numbers will put him in that conversation. But
to your broader question about is their voter fatigue going
(30:15):
forward after this year, I actually think, and look, you
hear the reverence I have for Nikola Jokic, how great
I think he is. I value winning in all of
sports because I think as good as we are as
analyst and how much we've learned about the games we cover,
there's still things.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
We don't really know.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
And at the end of the day, the only thing
we really know is do you win or not? And
so I look at it this year and I say,
I think Yoke's more dominant, more valuable, better player, all
those things. But shake out the sousander. Let a team
that's going to win sixty six games this year. That
doesn't happen very often, and we should value it next
year if a player does that, and yokas around fifty wins,
it'll be the same story. But if Jokic is if
(30:53):
you take that part away, that variable away, I think
Jokic will absolutely have a chance to win another MVP,
not just next year, but in the years to come.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Adam always appreciate the time, my friend. Thank you very much,
and again keeping the great work at d NVR.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Thanks Alas, have a good one.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Thanks you for.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Adam, Adam Marris, we'll come back and we'll react to that.
Adam painting a little bit more of an optimistic picture. Again,
it's pretty mixed reaction, mostly negative about the move, especially
with the postseason really on the horizon, but he says
it's a lot more interesting now than it was. And
(31:29):
to his point, Dave, he said, I could sort of
predict based on the way they've been playing. With these
last four games including that are all losses, and there's
the body language things we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
You sort of predict where this was headed one way
or the other.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Again, if the Nuggets going into the playoffs and let's
just said he lost in the first round and you said,
you know what, they're going to fire Michael Malone and
Calvin Booth, I would have said, well, yeah, that could
happen for sure, but to do it three games away
from the postseason, and we've talked about this, I just
(32:09):
think it's clearly indicative that this was has been an
issue for quite some time. Again, I believe there was
a tipping point, whether you call it incident or what
have you, that they said, you know what, that's that's
going to be enough of this.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
And I, you know, I don't know. I don't know
how they'll play.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
I don't know if Adam I don't know if I
would say he painted, you know, an optimistic picture.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I have no idea how this team will play. One
of two things.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Either they'll continue to kind of grouse around and mope
and sulk.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
And because that's what they've been doing.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Really, you know, you have the incident on the bench
with Peyton Wattson and Aaron Gordon, a lot of a
lot of folks pointing to that in professional locker rooms.
I'm just going to tell you, whether it's in NFL,
what have you, those things are going to happen sometimes
where guys are going to you know, it's going to
be like, what what'd you say? You know, you get
tired of seeing the same faces you get tired of
(33:10):
hearing the same things, and somebody says something you don't
like and you react in a way that maybe you're
you're not so proud of, but it's.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Not a huge, huge deal.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
The way the team was playing and how they reacted
to how they're playing, they didn't seem to have any
sort of competitive fight or fire to them. And I
think that's one thing, even at the professional level, that
you have to have that you can gauge from an
outsider's perspective and say, yeah, they didn't play well tonight,
(33:41):
but damn they competed hard. This team has not been
doing that on the defensive end for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
The belief has to be that something, something that has
torn this team apart from the inside out, that has
forced you know, on Cronky's hand in order to do this,
because you don't make this move unless you feel like
it's absolutely necessary at this time and what would be
absolutely absolutely necessary at this time and something you feel
like it is going to drive the team even even
further apart. So this has to be you know, you
(34:11):
have to look at the big picture of things, and obviously,
you know, we've been thinking about that this could be
something that could happen later on. But man like, just
as an athlete, as a pro athlete, for something, for me,
the the comparison to be like, it's a Chargers fired Harball,
you know, at the end of the like with a
(34:32):
couple of games left from the season, even though they're
on a way to a playoff spot.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
But you know, after Harbor had what a super Bowl
two years ago?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, and that and that's the thing. Usually that gives
you a good three four years of grace, but nowadays
we're in a you know, we need to see that
return right away. So for me, it's just it has
to have been something that happened in the locker room
or something that fractured this whole team organization for them
to have to make that move right now.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, and you know, listening to Josh Cronkey and his
short excerpt interview that he did that they post on
social media, reading some of his comments, he says, they've
been weighing this for some time. Yeah, and even yeah,
I think so too. I mean, he's sort of watching it.
You had eleven wins a post All Star break, you're
like eleven and thirteen. I mean, it's there's there's reasons
for like you said, we've been talking about the Nuggets
(35:21):
a lot lately for their play and our expectations. I mean, heck,
it was like a month ago, Dave, where you're just
like I can in the postseason just kind of get here.
I mean, I already, whatever happens here, they're going to
be a playoff team.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I really want to just see what they do there.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And now, of course this it does add a little
bit of an intrigue level to that, but more than anything,
it's like it's hard to take the regular season stuff
very seriously. But the fact is they have played themselves
out of a comfortable situation.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
I think you can look at how the Nuggets have
been constructed if you're a basketball fan, and this is
not this is not hindsight, because we've been talking about this.
I've been talking about this for probably four or five years.
You have to find and it can be veteran players.
It didn't have to be superstar players that killed the cap.
(36:13):
It doesn't have. There are guys that can shoot the
ball from the perimeter that other teams have been able
to secure that the Nuggets, for whatever reason, have seemingly
passed on and that's one of the glaring weaknesses with
this team. Their ability in the age of three point shooting,
(36:35):
their ability to score consistently from the perimeter is virtually
non existent. So they have to beat you playing old
school basketball with the best player in the world, and
if Jamal Murray is healthy, a guy that is capable
of getting.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
You thirty five points at any point.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
But they don't have that guy that, when defenses collapse
or you swing the ball, is a knockdown, perimeter, standstill shooter.
And we've been talking about that for the last five years.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
And Tim Connolly built this team. Colvin moof didn't sustain
it the way he was supposed to. And so now
you have everybody excited to see what moves that the
Nuggets going to make next year.
He stay Logan, Ryan and were shlby Harrison's studio. Though, honestly,
once again you show up wearing those kinds of clothes,
and honestly, we should really should have a conversation about this.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You get you're part of You're part of us where.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We hang out, You're you're a Rockies Opening Day on Friday,
and you show up.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
In Brewers here something about no question, baby, no question.
The Bruises are in town today, and that's the thing.
I will root for the Rockies if they're not playing
the Brewers.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
That's understandable.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Dave bruts for the Yankees.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
I'm from.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Uh is that from that day drill show? Yeah, I'm
not yelling. Very excited to be here with you. I
have obviously a lot to get to.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I mean, for the next three hours. Dave, Mike Malone,
Calvin Booth have both been let go. You have three
games left in the regular season. The Nuggets, who are
currently the four seed, are fighting. They're gonna be in
the playoffs or at least a play in, but not a
(01:13):
lock whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So what was your reaction to the news.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
No, I was, I think I was like pretty much
everybody else.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I did not see that coming. Now, if you just said.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
The Nuggets are going to get in the playoffs and
have a quick ouster, then is it possible that both
Malone and Booth are gone? I would have said, yeah,
I think so, I really think so. But no, I
didn't see it coming with three games left in the
regular season. But you and I Ryan did talk about
(01:45):
this either yesterday or the day before. The body language
of that team has not been good the last few games.
Now you can say well, I mean Westbrook addressed it
in the locker room and said, hey, I'm just tired
of losing, and so yeah, when you lose, it's not
a lot of fun. I don't care how much money
(02:06):
you're making.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
It's just not me. It's not fun. But the body.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Language on the bench, the body language at times on
the court, the body language when players were coming off
the court getting to the bench.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I mean, I'm big on just.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Watching observing all of that, and it was really not good.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
So but man, I got to be honest about it.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
I can't sit here and say yeah, I mean I
thought this could happen with three games left in the
regular season.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
This is out of nowhere. I go out of nowhere.
But it's just if you think about the grand scheme
of things, the Nuggets have been struggling the second happened
the season, But to make a move for but three
games left in the regular season, that to being makes
it seem like you're throwing in the towel and it's like,
all right, let's focus on next year. But when the
(02:55):
West is completely wide open, and I think the Nuggets
still have a team that can go out there and
compet with anybody, it's just you go from winning the
championship two years ago to firing your head coach. It's
just if you look at around the league and you
look at the Milwaukee Bucks and doing that with Bud
bab like, it just doesn't necessarily add up to success
(03:17):
later on. And if you would have told, like like
Dave said, if you would have told me earlier and
earlier in the day that, like, you know, if the
Nuggets don't make a long playoff run, they might switch coaching,
I would believe it. But to you know, fire your
coach three games left and you still don't even have
a playoffs spot, you know locked up? Now, did Memphis
(03:38):
doing what they did? You know, make it okay? I
don't know, but it's just it's tough to really put
in the words what this means for the Nuggets because
for me, that tells me that they don't think they're
going to win.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
And that's an that's interesting point you bring up. Right,
Sorry to step on there, but this is a interesting
point you bring up because in a lot of ways
accords Josh Cronkey, who is put out a statement as
well as has done a quick interview that they just
posted on their social media accounts. He's saying that this
is about actually trying to compete this year. Still, it's
a weird thing because it sends a message like, as players,
(04:12):
I imagine if your coach is getting fired, that's not
the first thing you think of, like, hey, this is
an investment in us. This is a belief that we
are going to be a championship team, especially with three
games for many in the regular season.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I mean, I don't know, maybe you could tell.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Me otherwise how a player might react to this news.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Oh, I think this is a much deeper seated issue.
And I think, honestly, although the players might not say so,
in fact, I doubt they would say so publicly, I'm
guessing there are players in that locker room that more
or less expected something to happen. I think that's how
(04:52):
bad we're talking. We're talking about very unlikely, very unlikely,
that none of those players were sort of giving a
heads up, talked to, brought in, hey, how are things?
Tell me what's going on? Very very very unlikely. Now
(05:16):
they don't have to say it publicly because it puts
them in a bad position. But I don't for a
minute think that this possibility wasn't discussed. I don't for
a minute think this just came out of like thin air,
like Josh and stand said, well, listen, we don't like
(05:37):
where we are right now, and we're going to fire
both Calvin Booth and Michael Malone.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Not for a minute do I believe that.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
So I think I think there has been I mean,
we and again this is nothing new, and we talked about,
you know, a lot of things on the show, but
we've talked about there's been a disconnect between the front
office and the head coach, between Calvin Booth and Michael
Malone for quite.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Some time in terms of you know, how.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Malone utilizes his bench, who gets tick, who gets playing time,
who doesn't, and so I think that, and I you know,
Michael Malone, I've always liked him, I really have. You know,
I haven't always agreed with everything he's done, but I
mean he's you know, professional coaches live their lives in
(06:27):
a fish bawl. We get a chance to sit back
and evaluate every single move that they make.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Why would he do that? Well? What the hell is
he thinking about? There?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
But I've always admired him because I think he I
think he I think he brought toughness to the organization.
I think he tried to bring accountability. Not perfect. I
didn't think he was a perfect coach in any shape
or form. But I think this was I mean, this
has been brewing, I believe for quite some time. And
(06:56):
I think we're going to find out within the next
probably forty eight hours, that there was there was a
tipping point incident that took place that just sort of
and then, you know, whatever metaphor you want to use,
(07:17):
push the wagon over the line. I mean whatever, I
think we will. I think there will be much talk
about that within the next couple of days.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, Dave. Dave's completely right, though, because you don't go
from winning a championship a year like two years before
or to firing your coach. So there's going to be
something that's going to come out where it's going to
be you know, this is what happened, and they had
to react to it because it was obviously you either
lost the locker room or or you lost your best player,
(07:46):
you know what I mean. I doubt that the Cooliochus
went in there and had no clue Indians this stuff
was going to happen, and so obviously, you know, he
had to sign off on it, or someone had to
sign off on it and be like this is okay
to do now. It's a lot of stuff that you know,
people don't know about the notes that's going on. Obviously
that's going on behind the scenes. But like I said,
(08:07):
just the timing of it. It's really just a confusing part.
But my heart always goes out whenever you see someone
getting fired, you see somebody getting let go. That means
that families are getting uprooted, That means coaches are going
to lose her, that means assistant coaches are going to
lose their job. And you know, it's never a good
feeling because, like you said, like Mike Maloney has a
he has a daughter, in high school, you know what
I mean, Like you got like this, people's real lives
(08:29):
involved in this, and everyone's going to get uprooted. And
like you can talk about the money and be like, oh,
they're going to be fine with this or that, but
those you know, those kids still have to live with
you know, moving cities and doing that, and families have
to up up, you know, uprooted and move their different city.
And I think, you know, we we lose the human
factor of this just because it's our favorite teams and
(08:50):
we're talking sports and it's like, Okay, that's fine, but
you know, these people's lives have just gotten you know, uprooted.
So you know, it's it's it's a sad day. And
I think that I think that fans of general say
this is a sad day because you know, Mike Malone
took him to a place where they.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Haven't been and he's been there for ten years, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And so he's entrenched in the community, and so after
ten years of making a change. You know. It's one
thing I will always say though, is you know, he
had a hell of a time in Denver and they
built one of the best teams that we've seen in
a long time and so on that you know, you
can't help but feel for Mike Malone because of everything
(09:30):
that he's done for this team. But you know, I'm
not going to be the one to say that it
didn't look like they needed a change, because they did
look like they needed a change.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, I'm glad you brought up the family part of it,
because I think I think he does get lost often,
and that's why I tend to not want to be
too casual with this guy should be fired, that guy
should be fired, because I think you know you're around
this business long enough. They know, we know, we all
know that you don't usually get to lee.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
On your own terms. That's not usually the case. You're high.
I think was a Dion that said recently, you're hired
to be fired.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
That's exactly right with coach GM, whatever it is players oftentimes.
I mean, it's just what the nature of the business is.
I don't think we need to rub anybody's face. And again,
what it gets lost, as you said, the human part
of it, because not even just the coach and the GM,
it's their assistance too. It's the families that sort of
impact that too, and again, I understand from the sports
angle of it that's kind of where we live in.
(10:21):
But I agree that that part often times gets overlooked.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
But we get judged by wins and losses in this
league and then any pro league, it's wins and losses.
And then if you know the tide is turning one
way or another and you know they're going to do
anything they can get correct it, and it's just another
example of that.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
You talked about the tipping point.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And this has been the speculation now on social media
since this happened, is how much of a role did
Nikola Jokic have potentially in any of this Because.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
We've talked about it.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
It's like, hey, Malon's not going anywhere unless Nicola Jokic
is good with it, right, And it doesn't mean that
he was the one that marched into Josh Kronky's office
that says you've got to fired this dude. But it
would blow my mind if Josh Cronky didn't at least
chat with Nikola Jokic ahead of time and give him
a bit of a heads up.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
You just don't do that with without.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
The Maybe blessing is a strong word for your franchise player,
but at least an understanding and awareness.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, I think there's more.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
I believe there would be more players involved than just Jokic.
And again I'm not I'm not intimating that this initiative
came from the players, but I believe that the front
office felt like the locker room had been lost and
(11:38):
they just weren't ready to call it a day on
the season because let's let's face it and be honest.
And again, we've we've talked about this the last the
last week or so a couple of weeks with with
the way this team is played, the way they're playing
right now, and again, they've been banged up, No Jamal
Murray ag has been in and out of the lineup,
mostly in recently. Jokisch has had, you know, some time
(12:02):
where he's missed. They've had inconsistent play from a few guys.
But the way they're playing right now, they're they're going
to be quickly ousted in the playoffs. So you know,
my my belief is that there was a conclusion reached
(12:24):
by the Nuggets front office that the locker room had
been lost.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
I believe there was a there was.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I don't want to say an incident, but there there
was something that became the tipping point, and it happened
recently to where the nugget Brass.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Felt compelled to make this move for both of them.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
If I don't know about with Calvin Booth, what I've
been told was with Michael Malone. Now you job to
think about this. We've watched the NBA for a long
long time. Grew up here in Denver when they were
in the ABA back in the early seventies, even even
(13:11):
late sixties.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Right, So when's the last time.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
A coach I was trying to think about this driving
in today that is I mean firmly going to be
in the playoffs? Right, was fired with three games left
before his team went into the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I saw somewhere that it was it's tied for the
latest time a coach has ever been fired.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I don't know who that example is. I'll see if
I can find it. Yeah, but I don't know if
they were heading into the postseason or not. I mean,
to your point, you talk about Memphis firing their coach,
that was just a few I mean they had nine
game for meatings ago.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
If you're going to fire a coach.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Let's just say you're going to fire a coach because
he's not winning enough games, sir, even firing him like
in mid season, an interim head coach, or you wait
till the season ends, you evaluate, you have your exit interviews,
and then you pull the trigger at that point.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Pretty typical fire you fire a guy that is.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
I mean, as Shelby said, I mean, we all know
a couple of years ago, was the head coach of
the NBA champions Last year, I mean, had a disappointing
playoff run, but still got into the playoffs at a
seven game series with Minnesota, lost three games at home.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Didn't It didn't. It didn't work out this year.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
I mean, it's been it's been a bumpy it's been
a rollercoaster of a ride.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
But still now the.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Nuggets are three games from making the playoffs, and both
the head coach and the GM get terminated.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
So I think that.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Again, I believe there was there was a tipping point,
something that took place, and coupled with the front office,
came to the conclusion and probably they had been working
on this, that the locker room had been lost. The
overall attitude of the team was completely in the dumper,
(15:09):
and so we're going to do this anyway, and this
at least gives us a chance because I think the
management looks at this team and thinks we can still
make a run.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Haven't believe that, right.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
They legitimately believe that.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And I think that's the thing we have to almost
lead off every discussion with is the fact, the fact
we can find flaws in it.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I'm not saying there are flaws in that logic.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I'm saying that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Is the answer to why now, because that has been
the question from the beginning, is like why now?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
The why now is we think we can win a championship.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
They literally put that out of a pression.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
There's a little more, though, to answer your question about
why now, there's a little more than we still think
we can win a championship.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
I think that is in.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Addition too, we still think we can win a championship.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
But there there was a tipping point incident.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
A tipping point, but three games left in the regular season.
I'll tell you the one thing that this tells me
it is a little panic in the Nugget organization. But
then two, it tells me it could be either or
a bolt. The MPJ and Jamal Murray are gone, or
it's one or the other, because you're doing that move
(16:20):
right there, kind of tells me that you didn't agree
like that. It's really the firing of the general manager.
It's the future that I think also is the issue.
And so it's like, are we going to keep repeating
the same process of with the same team and going
to the second round in the playoffs and losing, or
we're going to try to revamp this and while Jokers
still in his best years and then go out there
(16:42):
and try to build a better team around him that
kind of utilizes his his his abilities more. But it's
just to be three games left in the regular season,
and you can't try to tell me at the same
time that you plan on competing because though these are
two different moves that have nothing to do with trying
to compete at this moment.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So Hubet Brown was fired by the Hawks in nineteen
eighty one with three games remaining, so.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's what ties firing Cubert Brown.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
But they only had thirty one wins on the season,
so different circumstances completely. So that's that's thank you for
Grant and Alan Jacksonville.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So we can conclude based on on.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
That that we've never seen this, never seen it no
in NBA history where a coach where a team is
heading into the playoffs and with three games left in
the regular season, I mean, forget the fact that they
won it two years ago. Three games left in the
regular season. Well, that's what I'm saying, and.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
That's that I've been on a team where the coach
got fired. It didn't talent got fired on the flight
home from London after we got everything in London by Miami,
and he got fired, and that tells us that we
weren't good enough. And so it's either that's the statement,
(18:01):
or like Dave said, there's some real behind the scenes
stuff that's going on where they had to make that move.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Now the job is down, you can go home now.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Apparently it's it's pretty wild speaking of that, And you
talked about obviously the Memphis High firing their coach and
this was put out. It's almost as soon as it happened, right.
So we've seen some examples. Nick Nurse with the Raptors
where they won a championship in twenty nineteen, he was
fired in twenty twenty three. Frank Vogel won a championship
with the Lakers in twenty twenty he was fired two
years later.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Similar, we we know why he was fired.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
We know why he was fired, Buddenolzer. You mentioned him.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
They won in the championship in twenty twenty one, he
was fired in twenty twenty three. Steve Kerr won in
twenty twenty two, Mike Malone twenty twenty three, Championship twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So, I mean, this is a I mean, it's a trend.
It's a trend until it's not, and.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
It's a trend.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
But can we talk about the crazy expectations after a championship?
And I think that's what you're seeing a lot of
it's a lot of hair coaches. There's a lot of
head coaches got gotten fired the second year you.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Have a best player the world winning championship.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
I think I think you need to go back and
look at that, at that list, because I think there
there are similar characteristics with all of those and I'm
not sure that characteristic. I'm not sure it exists here
in Denver. I think when you when you talk about
let's just talk about the Lakers situation, right, I mean
(19:22):
that that was by all accounts Lebron could not.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I mean, that just was not going to work.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
I don't I don't believe that this is a player
driven move. But I do believe that the front office
concluded that the locker room had been severely damaged fractured
maybe fractured is a good word, and that they weren't
(19:52):
going to be able to sort of coalesce that locker
room in a very short period of time and then
make a run into the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
I'm just saying it is.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
I don't know that we've seen, you know, three games
left in a season with the team heading to the playoffs,
both the GM and the head coach are out the door.
I just don't think this was not a decision. I
think there was a tipping point incident that took place,
but I thought, I think this is a decision that
was being pondered for the last handful of months.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
This is a player driven league. Is out of most
all the leagues, it's the most player driven league. I agree, highly,
highly doubt that this happened without some type of player input.
Give them the okay that this is okay to happen.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
We're off ly here on a Tuesday. Dave Logan Ryan
and Rachelby Harris. When we come back for checking with
our guy Adam Maris. Get his perspective. He's kind of
a historian for the team, very plugged in. Get his thoughts,
maybe some more information we'll get to the next Then
Michael Malone and Calvin Booth are both out with the
Denver Nuggets and to help us give us perspective auto
(21:03):
right now, we head out to the Kai Commisperit Health
hotline and bring on a good friend of the program.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Adam mahra Is from d n v R. Adam.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Always great to catch up with you, my friend, and
certainly on a very busy day for you, we appreciate it.
You're all with Dave Logan, Shelby Harrison, Ryan Edwards.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
How are you, fellows.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
I'm doing good.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
What a surprise to the system today. Not how I
thought this day was going to go.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
No, I think I think we're all surprised.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
So when you when you first heard the news, what
were the first two or three things that went through
your mind?
Speaker 6 (21:35):
The first thing was, now you know that. I think
that this was something that was brewing behind the scenes
for a while. I think it was a question they
were going to have to confront in the offseason should
this postseason not gone, you know, successfully, The bar for
this team is championship or bust, and will be as
long as Yokich is in his prime, which is, in
(21:55):
my opinion, playing the best basketball of his career. And
I think everybody sense that this wasn't going the way
they were hoping, but the timing of this so I
thought this was something that I was prepared for a
month or two from now, that the team, if they
come up short, they'd have to revisit and maybe go
a new direction. But to do it with three games remaining,
to me, tells me a lot. It tells me about
(22:17):
the sense of urgency that the organization felt and maybe
even in some twisted way, a little hope that they
have that this year is not completely unsalvageable. Obviously it's
a long shot, but if you fire a coach with
three games remaining, you have to believe that your chances
of succeeding were zero, and that firing a coach, no
(22:39):
matter how unlikely it is that a team rallies this
late in the season around it is somewhere north of zero.
So that's what went through my head. As soon as
I heard the news, I was shocked and I immediately
went to that decision tree of how could they arrive
at this point?
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Is Shelby Harris?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Here? Just my biggest question, I guess, is what is next?
What let's say, let's just say that there is an
early exit like we thought there would be with the Nuggets,
or like you know, with the way the season's been going,
what is next? Is David Alavin at a legit head
coaching candidate, It's a short list. Is Chauncey Billups reunion?
(23:19):
Maybe in the picture? Like what is next to the Nuggets?
I guess moving forward?
Speaker 6 (23:24):
Well, I say this with complete confidence that at least
the basketball portion of this, there is now no better
opportunity in the NBA, nor will there be a better
opportunity than the one that Denver Nuggets had. If you're
a coach, I mean, money is always going to be
a factor. With the kron Keys, they've not been owners
who are willing to spend, you know, extensively at that spot.
So there are some organizations that just throw money. I mean,
(23:47):
we see the Phoenix Suns have hired three coaches in
three years, and they've given five year deals to all
of them, and they might fire their current coach and
go to a fourth one they give a big deal too,
So the kron Keys have never operated that way. But
if you just look at Nikolai Yokitch in my opinion
as one of the ten best players of all time,
if you want to really get say, top twenty players
of all time, whatever, he's one of the greatest players
(24:09):
we've ever seen, and he's as low maintenance as any
of the great players all time. He is a guy
that works hard, does his job. It doesn't have off
court drama. He is who he is. So you look
at that and say, what coach would not want that?
And front office what front office would want not want
to come in and try to be the architect of
a championship team around an all time great. So David
(24:31):
Adelman is somebody who has a lot of experience with
the players. He's known as a very smart EX'ES and
O strategist and a very clear thinker. I have no
idea the leadership portion of that, And I think coaching
in the NBA is as much about leadership as it
is about the you know, the X is and o's
portion of it. So I have no idea there, but
I do know that the team respects him and that
(24:52):
he is he has thought of as a strategic visionary.
So he'll have his opportunity in this playoff run. Maybe
informs a lot out of that, but I have to
imagine the Kronkis will open up their search since this.
They can probably have the pick of the litter on
who comes in here next.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Adamara is joining us here from D and VR. We
were talking about it right before he came on about
how much maybe the players, specifically Nicole Jokic, were involved
in this process.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
It is a player's league after all, the NBA.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
So in your opinion, how much do you think Josh
Kronki weighed this decision on Nicola.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
So I think this is a double edged short And
one of the things about Yoki, she has given his
input on player personnel and certain decisions, and at points
behind the scenes even sort of ben adamant when asked,
I don't know that he's gone out of his way
and said, hey, do this deal or make this guy
or bring this guy in. But I do know they've
consulted him on hey, we're thinking of this, do you
(25:50):
like it or not? And you know, he'll kind of
give his approval, I think, putting him in the position of, hey,
we want to fire him alone, should we do it?
I don't imagine the conversation happened like that, but I
also imagine that he was consulted in some way so
that they knew how he would respond to this. You
do not want to fire a coach go into an
off season where your cornerstone piece is unhappy, so that
(26:11):
I have to imagine that they had conversations with him
that at least broach the subject of this is something
that we're thinking about doing. Would it put you out
if it were to happen?
Speaker 5 (26:21):
And final question for me, is there any way to
gauge a realistic expectation.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
From Nuggets fans.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
Perspective with respect to this playoff season given what has
just happened today.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
Well, I look at that from two angles. The first
one is, as I mentioned before, Nikola Jokich is a
three time MVP and one of the greatest players ever,
and this is the best he's ever been. I think
you owe it to the organization, to the city, to
the fan base to say we're not giving up. Sometimes
teams get new life under new leadership and there's new
(27:00):
strategies that you can implement. Is there enough runway for
a team to fully absorb that? I have a really
hard time believing that. But as long as Jokich is
here and in his prime, championship is the only success.
That being said, if I'm trying to take off that
cap and then put on the what should I actually expect?
Denver is good enough to win around in the playoffs
and when you get to that second round, and depending
(27:22):
on who you match up in the first.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Round, is gonna be tough.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
But when you get to that second round and you
start to really lock in, is Denver able to develop
a defensive identity that can hang at that level? It's
not a long runway and probably not, But again, the
talent is there as long as you have yochish to
get it to happen. So for me, I don't have
high hopes that they're making it back to the conference
finals or finals, but I also see a way. To me,
(27:46):
this makes the season more interesting because I think I
saw the finish line. You know, if Malone were to
stay and at least now you can say crazier things
have happened.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I have one last question, and so what do you
think this means for the future of everyone on his team?
Not named the Kola Yokich right, So what like what
really you know, a new GM comes in, has no
loyalty to Ale Jamal, Aaron Gordon or MPJ. A new
head coach comes there's no loyals to there, so kind
of what what does this mean for the future of everyone?
Speaker 6 (28:19):
I think this is going to be the most eventful
summer of the Jokich era. And there's been some interesting ones,
there have been some moves, but you're absolutely right. When
the GM comes in here we all talk about new
owner syndrome, and in sports in general, new owner comes in,
he wants to make a stamp right away, make some
kind of splash. I think a GM is going to
look at this and say, Jokis is thirty. He's going
(28:40):
to be thirty one next year. The clock is ticking.
This is not a slow play. We know what this
team is. And I have a hunch that if there
was a veteran general manager brought in the first line
he will say in his interview is Jokis is ten
years into the league, three time MVP, and he has
never played with another All Star, All Defensive Player or
All NBA player in his ten years here, that will
(29:01):
not happen next year. So my hunch is, yes, this
is a situation where you look at it and say,
Jokic is untouchable everybody else. We have to pair him
with a star player, a co star that is worthy
of him and at his best. To moll was that
But if he's injured again this year and it's been inconsistent,
I think everybody will be on the table.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, no doubt, last one I have.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
If you're speaking to Nicola jokicch and you said three
time MVP, because we all are mostly expecting at this
point that Shay Gilgers Alexander is going to win. The
fatigue of voting for Nikolay Jokich seems to be setting
in because he once again is having the best season
of his career. Do you think he can get back
into the MVP conversation as students next year or do
(29:42):
you think that the voting public at this point feels
like they've given this as much as they can and
he can really never top what he's already shown us
year in a year out.
Speaker 6 (29:54):
I don't think that is the case at all. I
think every year he is going to be in the
conversation for him, at least for the foreseeable future. He
puts these numbers up effortlessly. I mean, this is not
a he had a hot month here, a hot month there.
He does it every single night. He's so consistently dominant
that his numbers will put him in that conversation. But
to your broader question about is their voter fatigue going
(30:15):
forward after this year, I actually think, and look, you
hear the reverence I have for Nikola Jokic, how great
I think he is. I value winning in all of
sports because I think as good as we are as
analyst and how much we've learned about the games we cover,
there's still things.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
We don't really know.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
And at the end of the day, the only thing
we really know is do you win or not? And
so I look at it this year and I say,
I think Yoke's more dominant, more valuable, better player, all
those things. But shake out the sousander. Let a team
that's going to win sixty six games this year. That
doesn't happen very often, and we should value it next
year if a player does that, and yokas around fifty wins,
it'll be the same story. But if Jokic is if
(30:53):
you take that part away, that variable away, I think
Jokic will absolutely have a chance to win another MVP,
not just next year, but in the years to come.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Adam always appreciate the time, my friend. Thank you very much,
and again keeping the great work at d NVR.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Thanks Alas, have a good one.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Thanks you for.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Adam, Adam Marris, we'll come back and we'll react to that.
Adam painting a little bit more of an optimistic picture. Again,
it's pretty mixed reaction, mostly negative about the move, especially
with the postseason really on the horizon, but he says
it's a lot more interesting now than it was. And
(31:29):
to his point, Dave, he said, I could sort of
predict based on the way they've been playing. With these
last four games including that are all losses, and there's
the body language things we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
You sort of predict where this was headed one way
or the other.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
Again, if the Nuggets going into the playoffs and let's
just said he lost in the first round and you said,
you know what, they're going to fire Michael Malone and
Calvin Booth, I would have said, well, yeah, that could
happen for sure, but to do it three games away
from the postseason, and we've talked about this, I just
(32:09):
think it's clearly indicative that this was has been an
issue for quite some time. Again, I believe there was
a tipping point, whether you call it incident or what
have you, that they said, you know what, that's that's
going to be enough of this.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
And I, you know, I don't know. I don't know
how they'll play.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
I don't know if Adam I don't know if I
would say he painted, you know, an optimistic picture.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I have no idea how this team will play. One
of two things.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Either they'll continue to kind of grouse around and mope
and sulk.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
And because that's what they've been doing.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Really, you know, you have the incident on the bench
with Peyton Wattson and Aaron Gordon, a lot of a
lot of folks pointing to that in professional locker rooms.
I'm just going to tell you, whether it's in NFL,
what have you, those things are going to happen sometimes
where guys are going to you know, it's going to
be like, what what'd you say? You know, you get
tired of seeing the same faces you get tired of
(33:10):
hearing the same things, and somebody says something you don't
like and you react in a way that maybe you're
you're not so proud of, but it's.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Not a huge, huge deal.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
The way the team was playing and how they reacted
to how they're playing, they didn't seem to have any
sort of competitive fight or fire to them. And I
think that's one thing, even at the professional level, that
you have to have that you can gauge from an
outsider's perspective and say, yeah, they didn't play well tonight,
(33:41):
but damn they competed hard. This team has not been
doing that on the defensive end for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
The belief has to be that something, something that has
torn this team apart from the inside out, that has
forced you know, on Cronky's hand in order to do this,
because you don't make this move unless you feel like
it's absolutely necessary at this time and what would be
absolutely absolutely necessary at this time and something you feel
like it is going to drive the team even even
further apart. So this has to be you know, you
(34:11):
have to look at the big picture of things, and obviously,
you know, we've been thinking about that this could be
something that could happen later on. But man like, just
as an athlete, as a pro athlete, for something, for me,
the the comparison to be like, it's a Chargers fired Harball,
you know, at the end of the like with a
(34:32):
couple of games left from the season, even though they're
on a way to a playoff spot.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
But you know, after Harbor had what a super Bowl
two years ago?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, and that and that's the thing. Usually that gives
you a good three four years of grace, but nowadays
we're in a you know, we need to see that
return right away. So for me, it's just it has
to have been something that happened in the locker room
or something that fractured this whole team organization for them
to have to make that move right now.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, and you know, listening to Josh Cronkey and his
short excerpt interview that he did that they post on
social media, reading some of his comments, he says, they've
been weighing this for some time. Yeah, and even yeah,
I think so too. I mean, he's sort of watching it.
You had eleven wins a post All Star break, you're
like eleven and thirteen. I mean, it's there's there's reasons
for like you said, we've been talking about the Nuggets
(35:21):
a lot lately for their play and our expectations. I mean, heck,
it was like a month ago, Dave, where you're just
like I can in the postseason just kind of get here.
I mean, I already, whatever happens here, they're going to
be a playoff team.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I really want to just see what they do there.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And now, of course this it does add a little
bit of an intrigue level to that, but more than anything,
it's like it's hard to take the regular season stuff
very seriously. But the fact is they have played themselves
out of a comfortable situation.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
I think you can look at how the Nuggets have
been constructed if you're a basketball fan, and this is
not this is not hindsight, because we've been talking about this.
I've been talking about this for probably four or five years.
You have to find and it can be veteran players.
It didn't have to be superstar players that killed the cap.
(36:13):
It doesn't have. There are guys that can shoot the
ball from the perimeter that other teams have been able
to secure that the Nuggets, for whatever reason, have seemingly
passed on and that's one of the glaring weaknesses with
this team. Their ability in the age of three point shooting,
(36:35):
their ability to score consistently from the perimeter is virtually
non existent. So they have to beat you playing old
school basketball with the best player in the world, and
if Jamal Murray is healthy, a guy that is capable
of getting.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
You thirty five points at any point.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
But they don't have that guy that, when defenses collapse
or you swing the ball, is a knockdown, perimeter, standstill shooter.
And we've been talking about that for the last five years.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
And Tim Connolly built this team. Colvin moof didn't sustain
it the way he was supposed to. And so now
you have everybody excited to see what moves that the
Nuggets going to make next year.
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