Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You got a text over the break.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
By the way, Dave Mandy Connall texted and said that
was a fantastic story. Uh, please let him know I
enjoyed hearing that. How much I enjoyed hearing that.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I enjoyed Here now.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Pork you five six six years text line you guys want.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
To get involved the conversation. Several people weighing in here.
A lot of questions for Shelby, who's the best old
line you face each year?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
O line? O line men, I think line man, that's.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
The old lineman I've ever played. Was Clecchial similarly those
years and rate in Oakland because he was a doggy,
big big dude, big, big, strong, quick, like you know,
just powerful, powerful, could generate a lot of power and
just was a guy who because for me, I have
long arms, but then he had long arms too and
was powerful and did all that.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So it was always it was like six six and
a half.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
Yeah, he was a big dude, he was strong, and
it was man that raider's old line. That year when
Derek Carr got broke his leg, I thought they were
gonna win the championship if it wasn't for him breaking
his leg.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
He was having a hell of a season.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yeah, m v P type season. Then they had to
throw Connor Cook in there.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
Connor cooked the Texans, correct, So I would say that.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
But then I guess if you want to talk about
consensus old Lions just in general, you know you really
can' that's that's a tough one because obviously even the
least skilled old lines, if it's all about working together,
and if they can work together, well, then then they'll
be fine. And so in that aspect, I guess you
(01:39):
got to say, Philly, Yeah, but I had my best
game of the year against them.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
That makes you that much, I make we gotta put
on dog.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I love a Jeff Stallin, one of the best, one
of the best out there doing it is.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Sure regarded as like the guy.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Yeah, I hated how what happened with Munchek here because
I always love the way that Munch that had his
old line guys ready to work because they necessarily weren't
always the talent the most talented, but he had them
boys ready to go. I loved I loved when Munch
was the old line coach here just because it was
he was a great sounding board to bounce ideas off
of and just talk about the game.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
How many coaches you had like that over your career
who were on the opposite side of the ball but
would help you with your craft.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
You know Bill Callahan and when he was in Cleveland,
because you know, Bill's a tough coach, but if you're
a guy like if you you know, if you're a
guy like, he's going to sit there and if you
talk to him, he'll talk to you. He's not gonna
come up and just start talking to you. But he's
one of those guys. Always, like Bill Callahan was one
of those ones. It's always the old line coaches that
because you got to take D line O line. We worked,
(02:45):
we were together all all the time. We go against
each other in one on one, eleven and eleven, you
know all that. We do specific drills against each other.
And so like for me, like I try to help
out the old lineman. I'm just man, I can tell
what you're about to do before the snap even came,
and trying to be like yeah, like you know you're
you're you're all compacted obviously jumping at me.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
So it's like little things like that where when you
can bang bounce out ideas off of each other and
really just talk through the game. That's why I said
Munch was perfect at that, you know what I mean?
And then Bill was Bill was great at that too.
So it was just, you know, I foun lucky in
that aspect.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You'd have any dB coaches did the same for you.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
It was more it was more coordinators. Like when Marty Shotenhammers.
There was I played. I played on the team that
he coached on.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
He was the d C.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
But but we had we had a good relationship and
he was a guy as a player that you could
you could pick his brain a little bit in terms
of coverages and uh splits and what what defensive backs
looked for and stuff like that. I would say of
my entire career, probably probably Marty was the guy that
I that and Bill Bill Kauer was my my roommate,
(04:05):
so I was already gone. But when he started coaching,
right became the head. He became the head coach of
the Steelers, and you know, I was going to go
coach receivers for him, and but really competitive, very hard
nosed like he Bill Cower is a guy. Again, I've
(04:25):
said this about three or four people in my life.
If you were, you know, about to walk down that
alley and you had to go down there and you
had to get to the other end of the alley,
but you didn't know what was in the alley, he
would be a guy that would say, Amen, let's go,
and both y'all go. Yeah, that's how he was. I
respect that though, no, I do too. That's what I respect.
(04:46):
It's hard to find. That's hard to find kind of
loyalty a lot.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Of coaches now and there's people like, you know, it's
all fickles, you know what I mean, it's what you're
doing for me now. But when a guy's actually waiting
to step for you, hey, I respect the hell out
of that.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Hill was the guy I always thought was going to
get back into coaching and just didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You know, he stayed at the TV analyst.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I really thought hes gonna take that Carolina job when
it came open at one after Fox he left, and
you know, I don't know, I mean, maybe you know
I had why he never went back to it.
Speaker 6 (05:17):
You know what I do, because I felt the same
way you did. In fact, when the when the Broncos
hosted the AFC championship game against the Patriots. Uh CBS
had that game and Cower was part of the pregame show.
So he was staying at a hotel down at Dimmer.
So I went down the night before and uh met
him and we got to talking, and I mean I
(05:40):
asked him right then. I said, bro, come on, man,
I mean you are You're going to get back in
right He goes lugs. He said, I don't, he said,
would have to be the perfect situation. He said, I
love working for CBS. I'm making good money. I wake up,
mondays it doesn't matter who won, who lost. And at
that time, the lady he he lost his first wife
(06:05):
to cancer, and so the lady who is now his
second wife, they had just started dating. She was a
musician in New York. So he was living right in
the city and he was, you know what, he was
kind of just kind of living that.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Life, living the life living.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And I mean, if you got it like that, if
you got something and you know, I met it, it's
a a I can't remember the New on Veronica, Yes, okay,
I was like I said, okay, I remember.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
K K was a really good basketball player at North
Carolina State.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That's where ring.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I think you get the ring honor finally, that's right. Yeah,
okay for un good for him, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I always loved I mean, even uh you know, growing
up and watching him coaching the Steelers against teams, I
liked whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Just just I mean watching Bill Cower.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Very intense dude, that made you want to play for exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
It made you want to be like he He's intense
like that and and all the antwers because he cares, yep.
And I'd rather have somebody that actually cares about every outcome,
about about his players doing well and about all that,
then a guy that only cares aout himself.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So yeah, I built It's funny, mentioned Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I remember I knew it briefly because I knew through
Scott Peterson over there at Nebraska whatever, and that was
when when he got hired. It was funny because the
Nebraska thing, they fumbled that whole search. They said they
had an airplane on the tarmac down there at the
dinner Fambiel try to get Houston Nutt away from Arkansas
and not just used it for a contract leverage. Never
played down at Arkansas, but it was I just remember
that and then Bill Wilde up there and I was like,
you know, this is gonna work. And then I mean
(07:34):
it didn't. But you know I really thought that was
gonna work there at Nebraska. That was Nebraska Post. Uh,
that that whole era post when they tried to change
and do you know, change up everything that they did,
I I don't know, it never.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Works because I'm looking at Wisconsin doing the same thing
right now. We went from ground and pound and now
we're trying to go.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Full air raid.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
Yeah, like that type of transition. You don't have the
players for it. You're trying, it's going to take you years.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Well, and this is of course I specifically want to
play this way is you know, I think that a
lot of that problem is the high school coaches, you know,
kind of gear their stuff toward are used to at
least gear their stuff towards, you know, those programs as
trying to create a feeder for the schools.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And then when you when you pivot your coach, I mean, do.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You not have to pivot a little bits as a
high school coach to try to keep that, you know,
some somewhat in line.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, I think you.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
As as a high school coach I think you have
to have the ability to be flexible, right because your
your roster turns over. I mean, when you have a
really good team, you've got starters. Maybe you know, a
lot of them have been two year starters, and maybe
a real small handful minus a couple fingers have been
(08:45):
three year starters. But it's not like in the NFL.
I mean, you get guys, your core group of guys,
it could be five, six, seven year guys, and they're
used to your system, They're used to the culture of
the program. So I think you have to have a
core belief on you know, what's going to be important
to your team, and those intangibles can't change, but how
(09:06):
your team goes about competing with respect to schemes, I
think probably change more in high school than any other
level of football.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It was and for me, it was a fascinating to
watch as Arkansas went from Lou Holtz and Kent Hatfield
in the triple option. You know, then you went to
like Danny Ford and then Houston Nut and the Eye,
and you were waiting for high school to catch up.
They had to import players because they were waiting for
high schools to switch their offenses and catch up.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Well, that's the crazy thing about high school and I'm
talking about youth programs. Do it for high school? High schools?
Do it for college? Is this You're trying to prepare
them for that next level and when it's such a
drastic change. And going back to Wisconsin, the state of
Wisconsin can't keep up with that. They don't have the
athletes to keep up with an air raid type of offense,
(09:53):
you know what I mean, Like we're just not going
to have the receivers and like we're having running but
we have some running backs.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
We have online you will have some O line.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Everything else you're gonna have to go find Florida, Texas, Ohio.
Ohio when I was born of Ohio was a hotbed
before they were a hotbed for talent. No.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Arkansas had do the same thing when we went from
when you went from Houston Nut to Bobby Petrino, uh,
you know the I Formation to the early spread stuff
and so you had just again that's what they did.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
They raid Texas jucos.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We had we had the Arkansas was at Juco School
at that point because we were raiding all the jucos
because we could. We didn't have homegrown talent, they could
do what they wanted to do.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
I think it depends on obviously who who the head
coach is and what kind of system that head coach
is going to employ, who is coordinators, And you know,
there's still they're still I think there's still a place
for the tied end in certain offenses in high school
and and still in college. I mean, you look at
what Jim Harborugh accomplished to Michigan. I mean Jim Harbaugh
(10:49):
primarily was a my quarterback is under center.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
A twelve personnel ten like you know, just hey, you know,
I'm not trying to hide it from We're running this ball.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
And I think his his thing in terms of especially
recruiting quarterbacks was listen, I mean, how many how many
NFL teams do you see that are going to have
the quarterback in the shotgun the entire game? The answer
is none. And so Jim Harbaugh said, I'm going to
put you under center. And I believe in that too.
(11:21):
So I mean, you you've got to be able to
get into the gun and be able to run it
and create the sort of concepts you like in the
passing game and take advantage of whatever athletes you have,
but you have to teach that quarterback how to operate
from under center. And it's amazing how many guys now
are coming into the league from college that have never
(11:43):
taken a snap from under center.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
You're about to say that, dude, you don't realize how
many people, how many quarterbacks from you to the league,
have never been understanded call play.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
And I mean.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
I used to work, you know, man like it's and
and that's a hard right there. It's a harder adjustment
than Patson Lynch. When I did his first show, uh
first pregame show, we were talking nice enough, nice enough kid,
and I asked him about one of his play calls
at the University of Memphis, and I can't remember the terms,
(12:22):
but I remember there were three and it was like
Orange Banjo.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Baby.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
I said, Orange Banjo Baby's the Is that the whole play?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's the whole play? I said, so what does that mean?
Speaker 6 (12:38):
He said, Orange was the the personnel group and the formation.
Uh uh, Banjo was the concept and baby was something else.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I said, rout tree or something.
Speaker 7 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
I said, well, what are you talking about protections? He said, well,
we had you know, the protections were signaled in and
we had I said, how many protections did you have?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Is like four?
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Thinking, oh, oh my gosh, this is going to be
so eye opening. You know, not that Memphis has to
do what Memphis has to do to win games. They're
not interested only in developing players to go play in
the NFL.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
They got to they gotta do what they got to
do to win.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
But right then I said, boy, this guy's got a
learning curve that is going to be so steep it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I think that's one of.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The reasons that, I mean, the Patriots have had success
is getting quarterbacks up to speed. That air Heart Perkins
at truncated verbiage that they have. It's not like the
West Coast, you know, the West Coast roots stuff, where
you've got eighteen twenty where play calls versus you know,
Airhart Perkins where you're talking like seventy two ghosts AA's six.
You know, like it's you got four words in there,
and there's a there's something to that. I do wonder
why more people don't switch to that, But I mean,
(13:45):
you know, I guess you get interested in what it
is that you do when you're like, all right, well,
this kid's either go to learn it or he's not.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Everybody does it different. Yeah, I'm talking about I've been
in the teams that every team, every scheme calls at
like you'll have to say any thing like power.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Some people call it pun.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Well, I mean like some people call you know, it's
so many different terms for one, you know, just for
one word, everybody calls it something different. And I always
say this, you know about college and stuff. You're not
doing your players they need the service not teaching them
the game of football. You're doing them a complete I mean,
you're doing your players a complete disservice not teaching them
the game of football. About twenty one twenty one personnel
(14:20):
because the two running backs, one tight end, you know,
a twelve personnel. You know, one running back, two tight ends,
You're not like and the fact that they have to
learn this when they get into the league, they're already
beyond a ball.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, you're talking about harball.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It's interesting though, when he got to the pro game,
the quarterbacks he had where Alex Smith, who came out
of shotgun and it took him a while to learn
to play under center, and Colin Kaepernick, who came out
of the episode Nevada.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
But you see they change. You got to be able
to play your skills, your schemes. And that's the thing
is like a good coach, you know, the judge of
a good coach is not necessarily like you know, it's
great to have all the wins, but it's a matter
of when you are when you have something less than
sometimes on the field, how can you fix it? Because
everyone's scheme, it has this idea of what the scheme is,
(15:05):
but sometimes you don't. You don't have the players for
the scheme, So how can you change your scheme to
fit your players. That's what a great coach is.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, and that's something that I think you know you've
seen over the years, guys trying to do a square
peg round hole with that. This guy's gonna fit me
instead of those guys tend to ge run out of
the LEADU Prett quick.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Talk about it.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
If you throw if you used throwing the ball eighty
yards and then you have a quarterback that I only
throw a forty, your offense is different now. Well, yeah,
like if Mahomes isn't playing for the Chiefs and you
have a guy that doesn't have a strong of arm,
you have to change your offense.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I think one of the most glaring examples of that
to me, you look at John Gruden. You look at
him with the Raiders and hit Rich Gannon, who did
not have the greatest arms strang hyperacurate guy. We did
not have the most arms strength and were a lot
of Letsons. But you look at the guys that John
kept drafting and kept trying to develop, and they were
all big guy, big arm, you know, and he couldn't
replicate what he had, the magic he had with Gannon
because he was so keyed in on trying to get
Rob Johnson and Brad Johnson to match up with what
(15:55):
it was that he was doing.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
We did he did he draft? He didn't draft JaMarcus,
did he Russell?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
No, that wasn't that was after him. It was I
think Tony Sperano. Maybe I'd have to go back and look,
but he was he was.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
He was that guy who was always looking for the throwback,
big arm, big, you know, big, and it was like
you had the magic with the guy that was hyper
mobile and you know in a dick and dunker.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
I think I always I always thought, I mean, when
you talk about John Gruden and where I mean, everybody
gets their start and kind of builds their playbook and
steals ideas from other coaches and and Gruden, Gruden took
a lot off that that Philadelphia staff when the head
(16:38):
coach Ray Roads, when you look at that staff, and
then they went to Green Bay together and he got
to work with under Holmgren, and so he Gruden, to me,
has always been a West Coast guy that has sort
of morphed over the years into a little bit a
(16:58):
little bit more. But I always thought Gruden was exceptionally
sharp on offense, really creative. Gone back and looked at
a lot of his stuff over over over the years,
and you can see some of the stuff that I mean,
they were doing stuff. I mean, they were ahead of
the game. I'll just put put it that way. In
terms of and Mike Shanahan, I think when he went
(17:21):
to San Francisco developed sort of a sense of what
that West Coast I call it a hybrid West Coast
offense wanted to look like. And Mike when he got here,
you know, situated the running game and the play pass
into the running game. But he was so good at
whenever The Broncos really never had a play pass package
(17:43):
that was not directly off of a run that looked
just like that. And you see sometimes today, I think
in the NFL where where teams will try to run
some sort of play pass and it's off of a
it's off of a formation and a look that that
they'd never run the ball one time. Defenses are too
good for that kind of stuff. Mike was I think
(18:06):
the absolute best at marrying that running game into the
play pass and it looked exactly the same.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
You're talking about when like the Broncos would runing Jet Sweet,
you know, over and over again and just would never
hand the ball off. You know, remember those days, You
remember those.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Days, Jet Sweet.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
You got his cardio in every play jetsuits at least
ten times a game. I don't think that whole season
we handed the.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Ball offs one time that I can tell you didn't
that once. That was yeah, any teams. I never could
quite understand that. The teams literally stopped, stopped worrying about
it's all right, and literally.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
You would see them condense, yeah, doing it. I understand
what you're doing here. You're trying to get it, you know,
a lean in a ten.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
First time you do it, give them the ball and
then maybe switch it up.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, when we come back, we'll get into a little
bit more of this. You guys to Kay sports. That's
a good text coming in. Somebody said we'll gruten coach again.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I think he wants to, but I think he's happy
with where he's at.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Now, or he might be happy with that settlement.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Well, yeah, a couple of different things. Somebody said it
would be fun to hear a long play call. I'm
trying to think, like, the longest play call I remember
that we used to have would be like unbalanced spread
gun right after why trade thirty six dollond trap line
pushed the lay two red zero, which meant we lined
up two tackles on the left side at a tight end.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Replace him f And why would trade spots be the motion?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
The old line would delay two seconds before moving forward.
And I can get in a more technical crap on that,
but who cares is that? I mean, like, what's the
longest play call.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You got, Dave?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I don't want to ask you to give away trade secrets.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
I'd shoot. I don't know about the longest. Let's see,
what what would one play call be scatter, Let's do this,
Let's go scatter to Larry three twelve Blue Flop F
(20:09):
eleven two Jet Baby x d C alert kill and
then some other play and how many delay of games
you can? Well, you know what I'm knocking on wood.
We've we've been we've been pretty good. Alert that's the
(20:31):
second a more likely it's a run coming. So some
teams use kill kill, some teams use can can can kill.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Your your chicken to another play shake their hands, yeah, yeah,
just when the listeners want to hear some nothing right
with brown Wright thirty five power either.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Hey, I love keep a simple sid.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
You want to have some long defensive class on storm
that's the longest.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
That's why defensive guys can play fasten.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
You gotta think about it too. Like the offense, it's
it's we're going off offensive time. So they're over here,
they're making their calls, they're doing all that. They come
to the line and these are all the decordinators. They're
waiting to the last possible moment to give you a
call because they're trying to see what the you know,
the personnel is and then so then especially vic Vic
would wait till the last second. So he couldn't afford
(21:29):
to have these long calls. Yeah, and so you gotta
you gotta hear two words and be all right, I
know exactly what I'm doing from there. It can't be
like on defense. You can't have a twenty word call.
Well no, that makes a ton of sense too.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
So just for the record, orange Storm, what's that tell you?
Speaker 5 (21:45):
I gotta so orange Storm will tell me I'm the
I'm the two eye, and I have to stunt to
the opposite, the gap, the opposite again, and then and
then the three texts up the field three and so
it's really it's a run blitz. Uh huh, you know
what I mean. So if someone pulls, is really bringing
another d lineman across to bring an extra body?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay, yeah, I just said, Well we had we had
a couple of well end is crashing.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Down too, So it's it's it's pretty much everyone's moving.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
To one side.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Okay, all right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You guys have any other questions certainly here to Uh,
we got a lot of people that want the live
video feed between the which means we would have to
shut up between the breaks. There are plenty of people
on the text line that are uh uh, that are
begging for that. Somebody said, damn, Dave, what's the s
A T score minimum to play for you?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Fifteen?
Speaker 6 (22:35):
Oh gosh, no, listen, you know what that that's I mean,
that's that's why we practice, you know, during the summer.
And and I've always always thought that it's it's how
you teach them. And there's there's a rhythm to a
play call, right where there's a pause and then there's
(22:58):
another part and there's a paw.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And if they can hear.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
That over and over and over again, including the rhythm
of how you call it, that they're much more likely
to pick it up.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
But it's it's I mean there.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
I mean, believe me when I say in high school
there they are a whole bunch of really good coaches
out here in this state. And I think this is
an underrated state school football. They got long play calls
too well.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
The one thing though, I've always noticed though about a
lot of play calls is, as you know, the quarterback.
Obviously it's to say the whole thing, but the team
is only listening to parts.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That's exactly right. So that's the West Coast. That's that's
I won't say why the West Coast offense was set up.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
But if you go back and look at the history
when when Bill Walsh, even when he was the OC
at Cincinnati, was talking about and then went to San
Francisco in seventy nine I believe seventy eight or I
think seventy eight or seventy nine, he would identify. So
for players, the only one, as Shelby said, the only
(24:02):
one that truly at the high school level would have
to know everything would be that quarterback. But if you're
an X receiver, you have you have certain terms right, nasty, dirty, filthy,
if you're the Z receiver, mid wing, if you're the
F which is another very smart position in the West Coast,
(24:24):
you got to identify in terms of strength to formation, motion, movement.
H has to listen for numbers like if you would say,
you know, split right, nasty eleven, Well, the eleven tells
the H he's lining up as a wide receiver. So
everybody listens just for that stuff. That way, you got
a much better chance of getting guys to line up
(24:44):
the right way.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
As some words speak to four people three people. If
I say flood, it's talking to three different people. If
I say it's a smash that's talking to two different people,
you know what I mean. So right there, it's ways
inside the play call. Concepts, Yeah, you know, it's concepts
inside the play call. It's it's if you know your job,
you'll be fine. But for the quarterback, it's like you
(25:06):
see on all the Gruden's camps and everything he'd be
putting them through. It it's it's a lot you you
that's why you see, you have to take the time
outside the facility and and like practice, practice your calls,
practice practice your huddle, you.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Like, because if you don't go in there with authoritative voice,
you gotta you gotta, you gotta.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Own your huddle.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
You can't just know what.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You have to project confidence in it as well, Like
I play a quarterback and receiver and like I'll tell you,
I mean it was high schoo level, but still I mean,
you have to project confidence because if you.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Don't, why the new's gonna follow you. If you don't
believe in you, why why are they gonna believe in you?
Speaker 5 (25:39):
Well, we've seen, we've seen so many different huddles and
obviously everyone is different. You have this certain guy that
come in there give a quick, little enthusiastic talking and
get to the huddle, you know what I mean. Like
it's it's it's even the way that they even do
the huddle. You know, Russ Russ will go take a
knee and everybody kind of surrounds them. It's it's all
just about hey, all eyes on me. Let's like, let's
go have your confidence in me. I'm going to give
(26:00):
you the call. Don't worry about it. I'm we're going
to be good.
Speaker 6 (26:03):
So we we we were talking about length of call
and the West Coast offense and it's it's it's verbiage intensive,
for sure. There was a and we've played this before,
but but I still love this clip.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Phil Simms, excuse me, Phil sims Son.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
Ch Chris sims was a rookie and playing for John Gruden,
trying to make the team from the University of Texas
in Tampa, and this was I think his third day
at practice and he's dealing with the head coach calling
the play.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Coaches like to call the play out.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
And then what quarterbacks like to do is say on
one on one and they don't they don't let that
they call it, and then you have to repeat the
entire play.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
Let's go green right X shift the viper right green
right X shift the viper right three eighty two x
stick lookie.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
Here you guys, green right X shift the viper right
three to two.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
The looking at one.
Speaker 7 (27:01):
I took looking on one.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
Let's go scatter the west right, tight f west three
seventy two Wi sticks spot here.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
We go, scattered the west right, tight f left three
to two.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Washteon, Christ, just go scatter the west right, tight f
left three seventy two Wi sticks eastpot.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
Here you go, scattered. Say it again?
Speaker 8 (27:22):
Them scattered the west right, tight f left three seventy
two Wi sticks eastpot here you.
Speaker 7 (27:28):
Go scattered west right tight scattered the west right tight
f left three to two, three seventy seventy two stick
respect spot.
Speaker 8 (27:37):
I'm already, Christ, I'm the problem making your nerves, arenite.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I just couldn't sit it.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Out, especially when you're tired.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
You gotta think, like like imagine giving Lamar Jackson that
type of play call after a sixty yard run, like, hey,
get us, get this all out. You got Chris Sims
looking saying I'm the problem. Is that I'm the problem.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I know. That's what you know.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
You just completely like said, uh, you know my fault
mea Kolpa. I'm the problem coach.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I can just hear grud right there. He kept saying
f right, no, the left, he keeps going to say fu.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
But it was you know.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
This one says, who's a Bronco that has had all
the talent but couldn't translate for success. I don't know,
like if he wasn't a Bronco, but the guy I
always thought it was gonna be.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
That guy went up to my dad.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I went to to go up to Penn State to
look at that for college for me, and I watched
this kid play high school ball up There's a big
time high school player named Mike McMahon went on to
play quarterback at Rutgers, got a cup coffee in the
league A couple of different I always thought that guy,
I mean, he's a four or five seven forty guy,
all athleticisms in the world. He just was not talented
enough to throw. But that was a guy I always
thought was gonna be something.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
It didn't.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I'm trying to think who who I say Alberta was
of a Bronco. Alberdau had all the skills in the world.
It tight end ran a four, four, six or five. Yeah,
it just couldn't stick.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I mean fan could run too. Yeah, in a decent year.
Last year, did he Yeah? Not bad Seattle? Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
I mean he's been better in Seattle than he was here, right, Yeah,
for sure? How about this? How about how about a
guy like Mike Kroll, who was a first round pick,
came into the league, got in Nebraska. I think his
rookie season, I think he had like eleven and a
half sacks, and after that year, it just it just stopped.
(29:30):
It just never translated into that kind of success. I'm
not even sure how many years he was.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
The guy's getting tape on him and then just figured
it out. You know, he's got one move here it
is I don't I.
Speaker 6 (29:41):
Could act like I know, but I don't really remember.
I don't know exactly what it was. That's a that's
a really good question, just because it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Makes me have to, you know, think about it, really think.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Right. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Remember seeing Mike man as a high school and be like,
I'll never be able to replicate that. And then as
he I kept up with his career, as he went
to Puckers and came in the league, and I was.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Like, oh, this guy could be something.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
You know, he's got four Mike mcmulla, mamula, Mike McMahon.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Play for the Eagles Lions.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
I'ma still say Drew Locke just because, Man, Drew has
every and that's just current. I'm just staying more current.
But Drew had everything possible that you needed for a quarterback. Yeah,
strong arm, mobility, you know what I mean. But once,
like we were talking about once during the break, you know,
not once in his career, as he had the same
offensive coordinator twice, Yeah, twice in a row.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
And that's such an underrated thing too, man.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
And that's and that's what I've always said though about
a lot of quarterbacks in the league, like they aren't.
It's easy to write off a quarterback and be like
they just suck, but you have to look behind the
scenes and be like, all right, he's had in three years,
he had three offensive coordinators, and you know, it's all
just trying to learn a different scheme, never able to
get comfortable in that scheme. And so, Man, I still
(30:52):
believe Drew can can be a great quarterback in this league.
It's just a matter of you know, finding someone that
believed in him, like somebody believed in Genal Smith.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, he torched India last year.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Roll quick, last question before we get to show me
the money. Uh so you gotta ask Ben one what
win team win total? Bet do you like the most?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
This year?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Arizona eight and a half? Is there is the total?
Their hammer the over on Arizona this year. That's where
I'm out. I'm stay out of them, stay out of
that way out of.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Arizona.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I think is gonna got a surprise, I said last year.
Of course I had Washington. This year take uh take
Arizona the go surprise people this year. Appreciate you guys
for let me fill in. Looking forward to
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Doing this tomorrow MORNNGO show Tonight's Ryan Up Next
You got a text over the break.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
By the way, Dave Mandy Connall texted and said that
was a fantastic story. Uh, please let him know I
enjoyed hearing that. How much I enjoyed hearing that.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I enjoyed Here now.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Pork you five six six years text line you guys want.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
To get involved the conversation. Several people weighing in here.
A lot of questions for Shelby, who's the best old
line you face each year?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
O line? O line men, I think line man, that's.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
The old lineman I've ever played. Was Clecchial similarly those
years and rate in Oakland because he was a doggy,
big big dude, big, big, strong, quick, like you know,
just powerful, powerful, could generate a lot of power and
just was a guy who because for me, I have
long arms, but then he had long arms too and
was powerful and did all that.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So it was always it was like six six and
a half.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
Yeah, he was a big dude, he was strong, and
it was man that raider's old line. That year when
Derek Carr got broke his leg, I thought they were
gonna win the championship if it wasn't for him breaking
his leg.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
He was having a hell of a season.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yeah, m v P type season. Then they had to
throw Connor Cook in there.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
Connor cooked the Texans, correct, So I would say that.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
But then I guess if you want to talk about
consensus old Lions just in general, you know you really
can' that's that's a tough one because obviously even the
least skilled old lines, if it's all about working together,
and if they can work together, well, then then they'll
be fine. And so in that aspect, I guess you
(01:39):
got to say, Philly, Yeah, but I had my best
game of the year against them.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
That makes you that much, I make we gotta put
on dog.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I love a Jeff Stallin, one of the best, one
of the best out there doing it is.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Sure regarded as like the guy.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Yeah, I hated how what happened with Munchek here because
I always love the way that Munch that had his
old line guys ready to work because they necessarily weren't
always the talent the most talented, but he had them
boys ready to go. I loved I loved when Munch
was the old line coach here just because it was
he was a great sounding board to bounce ideas off
of and just talk about the game.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
How many coaches you had like that over your career
who were on the opposite side of the ball but
would help you with your craft.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
You know Bill Callahan and when he was in Cleveland,
because you know, Bill's a tough coach, but if you're
a guy like if you you know, if you're a
guy like, he's going to sit there and if you
talk to him, he'll talk to you. He's not gonna
come up and just start talking to you. But he's
one of those guys. Always, like Bill Callahan was one
of those ones. It's always the old line coaches that
because you got to take D line O line. We worked,
(02:45):
we were together all all the time. We go against
each other in one on one, eleven and eleven, you
know all that. We do specific drills against each other.
And so like for me, like I try to help
out the old lineman. I'm just man, I can tell
what you're about to do before the snap even came,
and trying to be like yeah, like you know you're
you're you're all compacted obviously jumping at me.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
So it's like little things like that where when you
can bang bounce out ideas off of each other and
really just talk through the game. That's why I said
Munch was perfect at that, you know what I mean?
And then Bill was Bill was great at that too.
So it was just, you know, I foun lucky in
that aspect.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You'd have any dB coaches did the same for you.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
It was more it was more coordinators. Like when Marty Shotenhammers.
There was I played. I played on the team that
he coached on.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
He was the d C.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
But but we had we had a good relationship and
he was a guy as a player that you could
you could pick his brain a little bit in terms
of coverages and uh splits and what what defensive backs
looked for and stuff like that. I would say of
my entire career, probably probably Marty was the guy that
I that and Bill Bill Kauer was my my roommate,
(04:05):
so I was already gone. But when he started coaching,
right became the head. He became the head coach of
the Steelers, and you know, I was going to go
coach receivers for him, and but really competitive, very hard
nosed like he Bill Cower is a guy. Again, I've
(04:25):
said this about three or four people in my life.
If you were, you know, about to walk down that
alley and you had to go down there and you
had to get to the other end of the alley,
but you didn't know what was in the alley, he
would be a guy that would say, Amen, let's go,
and both y'all go. Yeah, that's how he was. I
respect that though, no, I do too. That's what I respect.
(04:46):
It's hard to find. That's hard to find kind of
loyalty a lot.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Of coaches now and there's people like, you know, it's
all fickles, you know what I mean, it's what you're
doing for me now. But when a guy's actually waiting
to step for you, hey, I respect the hell out
of that.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Hill was the guy I always thought was going to
get back into coaching and just didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You know, he stayed at the TV analyst.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I really thought hes gonna take that Carolina job when
it came open at one after Fox he left, and
you know, I don't know, I mean, maybe you know
I had why he never went back to it.
Speaker 6 (05:17):
You know what I do, because I felt the same
way you did. In fact, when the when the Broncos
hosted the AFC championship game against the Patriots. Uh CBS
had that game and Cower was part of the pregame show.
So he was staying at a hotel down at Dimmer.
So I went down the night before and uh met
him and we got to talking, and I mean I
(05:40):
asked him right then. I said, bro, come on, man,
I mean you are You're going to get back in
right He goes lugs. He said, I don't, he said,
would have to be the perfect situation. He said, I
love working for CBS. I'm making good money. I wake up,
mondays it doesn't matter who won, who lost. And at
that time, the lady he he lost his first wife
(06:05):
to cancer, and so the lady who is now his
second wife, they had just started dating. She was a
musician in New York. So he was living right in
the city and he was, you know what, he was
kind of just kind of living that.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Life, living the life living.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And I mean, if you got it like that, if
you got something and you know, I met it, it's
a a I can't remember the New on Veronica, Yes, okay,
I was like I said, okay, I remember.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
K K was a really good basketball player at North
Carolina State.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That's where ring.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I think you get the ring honor finally, that's right. Yeah,
okay for un good for him, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I always loved I mean, even uh you know, growing
up and watching him coaching the Steelers against teams, I
liked whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Just just I mean watching Bill Cower.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Very intense dude, that made you want to play for exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
It made you want to be like he He's intense
like that and and all the antwers because he cares, yep.
And I'd rather have somebody that actually cares about every outcome,
about about his players doing well and about all that,
then a guy that only cares aout himself.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So yeah, I built It's funny, mentioned Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I remember I knew it briefly because I knew through
Scott Peterson over there at Nebraska whatever, and that was
when when he got hired. It was funny because the
Nebraska thing, they fumbled that whole search. They said they
had an airplane on the tarmac down there at the
dinner Fambiel try to get Houston Nutt away from Arkansas
and not just used it for a contract leverage. Never
played down at Arkansas, but it was I just remember
that and then Bill Wilde up there and I was like,
you know, this is gonna work. And then I mean
(07:34):
it didn't. But you know I really thought that was
gonna work there at Nebraska. That was Nebraska Post. Uh,
that that whole era post when they tried to change
and do you know, change up everything that they did,
I I don't know, it never.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Works because I'm looking at Wisconsin doing the same thing
right now. We went from ground and pound and now
we're trying to go.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Full air raid.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
Yeah, like that type of transition. You don't have the
players for it. You're trying, it's going to take you years.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Well, and this is of course I specifically want to
play this way is you know, I think that a
lot of that problem is the high school coaches, you know,
kind of gear their stuff toward are used to at
least gear their stuff towards, you know, those programs as
trying to create a feeder for the schools.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And then when you when you pivot your coach, I mean, do.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
You not have to pivot a little bits as a
high school coach to try to keep that, you know,
some somewhat in line.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, I think you.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
As as a high school coach I think you have
to have the ability to be flexible, right because your
your roster turns over. I mean, when you have a
really good team, you've got starters. Maybe you know, a
lot of them have been two year starters, and maybe
a real small handful minus a couple fingers have been
(08:45):
three year starters. But it's not like in the NFL.
I mean, you get guys, your core group of guys,
it could be five, six, seven year guys, and they're
used to your system, They're used to the culture of
the program. So I think you have to have a
core belief on you know, what's going to be important
to your team, and those intangibles can't change, but how
(09:06):
your team goes about competing with respect to schemes, I
think probably change more in high school than any other
level of football.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It was and for me, it was a fascinating to
watch as Arkansas went from Lou Holtz and Kent Hatfield
in the triple option. You know, then you went to
like Danny Ford and then Houston Nut and the Eye,
and you were waiting for high school to catch up.
They had to import players because they were waiting for
high schools to switch their offenses and catch up.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Well, that's the crazy thing about high school and I'm
talking about youth programs. Do it for high school? High schools?
Do it for college? Is this You're trying to prepare
them for that next level and when it's such a
drastic change. And going back to Wisconsin, the state of
Wisconsin can't keep up with that. They don't have the
athletes to keep up with an air raid type of offense,
(09:53):
you know what I mean, Like we're just not going
to have the receivers and like we're having running but
we have some running backs.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
We have online you will have some O line.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Everything else you're gonna have to go find Florida, Texas, Ohio.
Ohio when I was born of Ohio was a hotbed
before they were a hotbed for talent. No.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Arkansas had do the same thing when we went from
when you went from Houston Nut to Bobby Petrino, uh,
you know the I Formation to the early spread stuff
and so you had just again that's what they did.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
They raid Texas jucos.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We had we had the Arkansas was at Juco School
at that point because we were raiding all the jucos
because we could. We didn't have homegrown talent, they could
do what they wanted to do.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
I think it depends on obviously who who the head
coach is and what kind of system that head coach
is going to employ, who is coordinators, And you know,
there's still they're still I think there's still a place
for the tied end in certain offenses in high school
and and still in college. I mean, you look at
what Jim Harborugh accomplished to Michigan. I mean Jim Harbaugh
(10:49):
primarily was a my quarterback is under center.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
A twelve personnel ten like you know, just hey, you know,
I'm not trying to hide it from We're running this ball.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
And I think his his thing in terms of especially
recruiting quarterbacks was listen, I mean, how many how many
NFL teams do you see that are going to have
the quarterback in the shotgun the entire game? The answer
is none. And so Jim Harbaugh said, I'm going to
put you under center. And I believe in that too.
(11:21):
So I mean, you you've got to be able to
get into the gun and be able to run it
and create the sort of concepts you like in the
passing game and take advantage of whatever athletes you have,
but you have to teach that quarterback how to operate
from under center. And it's amazing how many guys now
are coming into the league from college that have never
(11:43):
taken a snap from under center.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
You're about to say that, dude, you don't realize how
many people, how many quarterbacks from you to the league,
have never been understanded call play.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
And I mean.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
I used to work, you know, man like it's and
and that's a hard right there. It's a harder adjustment
than Patson Lynch. When I did his first show, uh
first pregame show, we were talking nice enough, nice enough kid,
and I asked him about one of his play calls
at the University of Memphis, and I can't remember the terms,
(12:22):
but I remember there were three and it was like
Orange Banjo.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Baby.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
I said, Orange Banjo Baby's the Is that the whole play?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's the whole play? I said, so what does that mean?
Speaker 6 (12:38):
He said, Orange was the the personnel group and the formation.
Uh uh, Banjo was the concept and baby was something else.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I said, rout tree or something.
Speaker 7 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
I said, well, what are you talking about protections? He said, well,
we had you know, the protections were signaled in and
we had I said, how many protections did you have?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Is like four?
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Thinking, oh, oh my gosh, this is going to be
so eye opening. You know, not that Memphis has to
do what Memphis has to do to win games. They're
not interested only in developing players to go play in
the NFL.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
They got to they gotta do what they got to
do to win.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
But right then I said, boy, this guy's got a
learning curve that is going to be so steep it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I think that's one of.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The reasons that, I mean, the Patriots have had success
is getting quarterbacks up to speed. That air Heart Perkins
at truncated verbiage that they have. It's not like the
West Coast, you know, the West Coast roots stuff, where
you've got eighteen twenty where play calls versus you know,
Airhart Perkins where you're talking like seventy two ghosts AA's six.
You know, like it's you got four words in there,
and there's a there's something to that. I do wonder
why more people don't switch to that, But I mean,
(13:45):
you know, I guess you get interested in what it
is that you do when you're like, all right, well,
this kid's either go to learn it or he's not.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Everybody does it different. Yeah, I'm talking about I've been
in the teams that every team, every scheme calls at
like you'll have to say any thing like power.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Some people call it pun.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Well, I mean like some people call you know, it's
so many different terms for one, you know, just for
one word, everybody calls it something different. And I always
say this, you know about college and stuff. You're not
doing your players they need the service not teaching them
the game of football. You're doing them a complete I mean,
you're doing your players a complete disservice not teaching them
the game of football. About twenty one twenty one personnel
(14:20):
because the two running backs, one tight end, you know,
a twelve personnel. You know, one running back, two tight ends,
You're not like and the fact that they have to
learn this when they get into the league, they're already
beyond a ball.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, you're talking about harball.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
It's interesting though, when he got to the pro game,
the quarterbacks he had where Alex Smith, who came out
of shotgun and it took him a while to learn
to play under center, and Colin Kaepernick, who came out
of the episode Nevada.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
But you see they change. You got to be able
to play your skills, your schemes. And that's the thing
is like a good coach, you know, the judge of
a good coach is not necessarily like you know, it's
great to have all the wins, but it's a matter
of when you are when you have something less than
sometimes on the field, how can you fix it? Because
everyone's scheme, it has this idea of what the scheme is,
(15:05):
but sometimes you don't. You don't have the players for
the scheme, So how can you change your scheme to
fit your players. That's what a great coach is.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, and that's something that I think you know you've
seen over the years, guys trying to do a square
peg round hole with that. This guy's gonna fit me
instead of those guys tend to ge run out of
the LEADU Prett quick.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Talk about it.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
If you throw if you used throwing the ball eighty
yards and then you have a quarterback that I only
throw a forty, your offense is different now. Well, yeah,
like if Mahomes isn't playing for the Chiefs and you
have a guy that doesn't have a strong of arm,
you have to change your offense.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I think one of the most glaring examples of that
to me, you look at John Gruden. You look at
him with the Raiders and hit Rich Gannon, who did
not have the greatest arms strang hyperacurate guy. We did
not have the most arms strength and were a lot
of Letsons. But you look at the guys that John
kept drafting and kept trying to develop, and they were
all big guy, big arm, you know, and he couldn't
replicate what he had, the magic he had with Gannon
because he was so keyed in on trying to get
Rob Johnson and Brad Johnson to match up with what
(15:55):
it was that he was doing.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
We did he did he draft? He didn't draft JaMarcus,
did he Russell?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
No, that wasn't that was after him. It was I
think Tony Sperano. Maybe I'd have to go back and look,
but he was he was.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
He was that guy who was always looking for the throwback,
big arm, big, you know, big, and it was like
you had the magic with the guy that was hyper
mobile and you know in a dick and dunker.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
I think I always I always thought, I mean, when
you talk about John Gruden and where I mean, everybody
gets their start and kind of builds their playbook and
steals ideas from other coaches and and Gruden, Gruden took
a lot off that that Philadelphia staff when the head
(16:38):
coach Ray Roads, when you look at that staff, and
then they went to Green Bay together and he got
to work with under Holmgren, and so he Gruden, to me,
has always been a West Coast guy that has sort
of morphed over the years into a little bit a
(16:58):
little bit more. But I always thought Gruden was exceptionally
sharp on offense, really creative. Gone back and looked at
a lot of his stuff over over over the years,
and you can see some of the stuff that I mean,
they were doing stuff. I mean, they were ahead of
the game. I'll just put put it that way. In
terms of and Mike Shanahan, I think when he went
(17:21):
to San Francisco developed sort of a sense of what
that West Coast I call it a hybrid West Coast
offense wanted to look like. And Mike when he got here,
you know, situated the running game and the play pass
into the running game. But he was so good at
whenever The Broncos really never had a play pass package
(17:43):
that was not directly off of a run that looked
just like that. And you see sometimes today, I think
in the NFL where where teams will try to run
some sort of play pass and it's off of a
it's off of a formation and a look that that
they'd never run the ball one time. Defenses are too
good for that kind of stuff. Mike was I think
(18:06):
the absolute best at marrying that running game into the
play pass and it looked exactly the same.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
You're talking about when like the Broncos would runing Jet Sweet,
you know, over and over again and just would never
hand the ball off. You know, remember those days, You
remember those.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Days, Jet Sweet.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
You got his cardio in every play jetsuits at least
ten times a game. I don't think that whole season
we handed the.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Ball offs one time that I can tell you didn't
that once. That was yeah, any teams. I never could
quite understand that. The teams literally stopped, stopped worrying about
it's all right, and literally.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
You would see them condense, yeah, doing it. I understand
what you're doing here. You're trying to get it, you know,
a lean in a ten.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
First time you do it, give them the ball and
then maybe switch it up.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, when we come back, we'll get into a little
bit more of this. You guys to Kay sports. That's
a good text coming in. Somebody said we'll gruten coach again.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I think he wants to, but I think he's happy
with where he's at.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Now, or he might be happy with that settlement.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Well, yeah, a couple of different things. Somebody said it
would be fun to hear a long play call. I'm
trying to think, like, the longest play call I remember
that we used to have would be like unbalanced spread
gun right after why trade thirty six dollond trap line
pushed the lay two red zero, which meant we lined
up two tackles on the left side at a tight end.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Replace him f And why would trade spots be the motion?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
The old line would delay two seconds before moving forward.
And I can get in a more technical crap on that,
but who cares is that? I mean, like, what's the
longest play call.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You got, Dave?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I don't want to ask you to give away trade secrets.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
I'd shoot. I don't know about the longest. Let's see,
what what would one play call be scatter, Let's do this,
Let's go scatter to Larry three twelve Blue Flop F
(20:09):
eleven two Jet Baby x d C alert kill and
then some other play and how many delay of games
you can? Well, you know what I'm knocking on wood.
We've we've been we've been pretty good. Alert that's the
(20:31):
second a more likely it's a run coming. So some
teams use kill kill, some teams use can can can kill.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Your your chicken to another play shake their hands, yeah, yeah,
just when the listeners want to hear some nothing right
with brown Wright thirty five power either.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Hey, I love keep a simple sid.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
You want to have some long defensive class on storm
that's the longest.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
That's why defensive guys can play fasten.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
You gotta think about it too. Like the offense, it's
it's we're going off offensive time. So they're over here,
they're making their calls, they're doing all that. They come
to the line and these are all the decordinators. They're
waiting to the last possible moment to give you a
call because they're trying to see what the you know,
the personnel is and then so then especially vic Vic
would wait till the last second. So he couldn't afford
(21:29):
to have these long calls. Yeah, and so you gotta
you gotta hear two words and be all right, I
know exactly what I'm doing from there. It can't be
like on defense. You can't have a twenty word call.
Well no, that makes a ton of sense too.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
So just for the record, orange Storm, what's that tell you?
Speaker 5 (21:45):
I gotta so orange Storm will tell me I'm the
I'm the two eye, and I have to stunt to
the opposite, the gap, the opposite again, and then and
then the three texts up the field three and so
it's really it's a run blitz. Uh huh, you know
what I mean. So if someone pulls, is really bringing
another d lineman across to bring an extra body?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay, yeah, I just said, Well we had we had
a couple of well end is crashing.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Down too, So it's it's it's pretty much everyone's moving.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
To one side.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Okay, all right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You guys have any other questions certainly here to Uh,
we got a lot of people that want the live
video feed between the which means we would have to
shut up between the breaks. There are plenty of people
on the text line that are uh uh, that are
begging for that. Somebody said, damn, Dave, what's the s
A T score minimum to play for you?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Fifteen?
Speaker 6 (22:35):
Oh gosh, no, listen, you know what that that's I mean,
that's that's why we practice, you know, during the summer.
And and I've always always thought that it's it's how
you teach them. And there's there's a rhythm to a
play call, right where there's a pause and then there's
(22:58):
another part and there's a paw.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And if they can hear.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
That over and over and over again, including the rhythm
of how you call it, that they're much more likely
to pick it up.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
But it's it's I mean there.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
I mean, believe me when I say in high school
there they are a whole bunch of really good coaches
out here in this state. And I think this is
an underrated state school football. They got long play calls
too well.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
The one thing though, I've always noticed though about a
lot of play calls is, as you know, the quarterback.
Obviously it's to say the whole thing, but the team
is only listening to parts.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
That's exactly right. So that's the West Coast. That's that's
I won't say why the West Coast offense was set up.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
But if you go back and look at the history
when when Bill Walsh, even when he was the OC
at Cincinnati, was talking about and then went to San
Francisco in seventy nine I believe seventy eight or I
think seventy eight or seventy nine, he would identify. So
for players, the only one, as Shelby said, the only
(24:02):
one that truly at the high school level would have
to know everything would be that quarterback. But if you're
an X receiver, you have you have certain terms right, nasty, dirty, filthy,
if you're the Z receiver, mid wing, if you're the
F which is another very smart position in the West Coast,
(24:24):
you got to identify in terms of strength to formation, motion, movement.
H has to listen for numbers like if you would say,
you know, split right, nasty eleven, Well, the eleven tells
the H he's lining up as a wide receiver. So
everybody listens just for that stuff. That way, you got
a much better chance of getting guys to line up
(24:44):
the right way.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
As some words speak to four people three people. If
I say flood, it's talking to three different people. If
I say it's a smash that's talking to two different people,
you know what I mean. So right there, it's ways
inside the play call. Concepts, Yeah, you know, it's concepts
inside the play call. It's it's if you know your job,
you'll be fine. But for the quarterback, it's like you
(25:06):
see on all the Gruden's camps and everything he'd be
putting them through. It it's it's a lot you you
that's why you see, you have to take the time
outside the facility and and like practice, practice your calls,
practice practice your huddle, you.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Like, because if you don't go in there with authoritative voice,
you gotta you gotta, you gotta.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Own your huddle.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
You can't just know what.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You have to project confidence in it as well, Like
I play a quarterback and receiver and like I'll tell you,
I mean it was high schoo level, but still I mean,
you have to project confidence because if you.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Don't, why the new's gonna follow you. If you don't
believe in you, why why are they gonna believe in you?
Speaker 5 (25:39):
Well, we've seen, we've seen so many different huddles and
obviously everyone is different. You have this certain guy that
come in there give a quick, little enthusiastic talking and
get to the huddle, you know what I mean. Like
it's it's it's even the way that they even do
the huddle. You know, Russ Russ will go take a
knee and everybody kind of surrounds them. It's it's all
just about hey, all eyes on me. Let's like, let's
go have your confidence in me. I'm going to give
(26:00):
you the call. Don't worry about it. I'm we're going
to be good.
Speaker 6 (26:03):
So we we we were talking about length of call
and the West Coast offense and it's it's it's verbiage intensive,
for sure. There was a and we've played this before,
but but I still love this clip.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Phil Simms, excuse me, Phil sims Son.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
Ch Chris sims was a rookie and playing for John Gruden,
trying to make the team from the University of Texas
in Tampa, and this was I think his third day
at practice and he's dealing with the head coach calling
the play.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Coaches like to call the play out.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
And then what quarterbacks like to do is say on
one on one and they don't they don't let that
they call it, and then you have to repeat the
entire play.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
Let's go green right X shift the viper right green
right X shift the viper right three eighty two x
stick lookie.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
Here you guys, green right X shift the viper right
three to two.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
The looking at one.
Speaker 7 (27:01):
I took looking on one.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
Let's go scatter the west right, tight f west three
seventy two Wi sticks spot here.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
We go, scattered the west right, tight f left three
to two.
Speaker 8 (27:12):
Washteon, Christ, just go scatter the west right, tight f
left three seventy two Wi sticks eastpot.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
Here you go, scattered. Say it again?
Speaker 8 (27:22):
Them scattered the west right, tight f left three seventy
two Wi sticks eastpot here you.
Speaker 7 (27:28):
Go scattered west right tight scattered the west right tight
f left three to two, three seventy seventy two stick
respect spot.
Speaker 8 (27:37):
I'm already, Christ, I'm the problem making your nerves, arenite.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I just couldn't sit it.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Out, especially when you're tired.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
You gotta think, like like imagine giving Lamar Jackson that
type of play call after a sixty yard run, like, hey,
get us, get this all out. You got Chris Sims
looking saying I'm the problem. Is that I'm the problem.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I know. That's what you know.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
You just completely like said, uh, you know my fault
mea Kolpa. I'm the problem coach.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I can just hear grud right there. He kept saying
f right, no, the left, he keeps going to say fu.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
But it was you know.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
This one says, who's a Bronco that has had all
the talent but couldn't translate for success. I don't know,
like if he wasn't a Bronco, but the guy I
always thought it was gonna be.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
That guy went up to my dad.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I went to to go up to Penn State to
look at that for college for me, and I watched
this kid play high school ball up There's a big
time high school player named Mike McMahon went on to
play quarterback at Rutgers, got a cup coffee in the
league A couple of different I always thought that guy,
I mean, he's a four or five seven forty guy,
all athleticisms in the world. He just was not talented
enough to throw. But that was a guy I always
thought was gonna be something.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
It didn't.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I'm trying to think who who I say Alberta was
of a Bronco. Alberdau had all the skills in the world.
It tight end ran a four, four, six or five. Yeah,
it just couldn't stick.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I mean fan could run too. Yeah, in a decent year.
Last year, did he Yeah? Not bad Seattle? Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
I mean he's been better in Seattle than he was here, right, Yeah,
for sure? How about this? How about how about a
guy like Mike Kroll, who was a first round pick,
came into the league, got in Nebraska. I think his
rookie season, I think he had like eleven and a
half sacks, and after that year, it just it just stopped.
(29:30):
It just never translated into that kind of success. I'm
not even sure how many years he was.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
The guy's getting tape on him and then just figured
it out. You know, he's got one move here it
is I don't I.
Speaker 6 (29:41):
Could act like I know, but I don't really remember.
I don't know exactly what it was. That's a that's
a really good question, just because it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Makes me have to, you know, think about it, really think.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Right. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Remember seeing Mike man as a high school and be like,
I'll never be able to replicate that. And then as
he I kept up with his career, as he went
to Puckers and came in the league, and I was.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Like, oh, this guy could be something.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
You know, he's got four Mike mcmulla, mamula, Mike McMahon.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Play for the Eagles Lions.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
I'ma still say Drew Locke just because, Man, Drew has
every and that's just current. I'm just staying more current.
But Drew had everything possible that you needed for a quarterback. Yeah,
strong arm, mobility, you know what I mean. But once,
like we were talking about once during the break, you know,
not once in his career, as he had the same
offensive coordinator twice, Yeah, twice in a row.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
And that's such an underrated thing too, man.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
And that's and that's what I've always said though about
a lot of quarterbacks in the league, like they aren't.
It's easy to write off a quarterback and be like
they just suck, but you have to look behind the
scenes and be like, all right, he's had in three years,
he had three offensive coordinators, and you know, it's all
just trying to learn a different scheme, never able to
get comfortable in that scheme. And so, Man, I still
(30:52):
believe Drew can can be a great quarterback in this league.
It's just a matter of you know, finding someone that
believed in him, like somebody believed in Genal Smith.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, he torched India last year.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Roll quick, last question before we get to show me
the money. Uh so you gotta ask Ben one what
win team win total? Bet do you like the most?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
This year?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Arizona eight and a half? Is there is the total?
Their hammer the over on Arizona this year. That's where
I'm out. I'm stay out of them, stay out of
that way out of.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Arizona.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I think is gonna got a surprise, I said last year.
Of course I had Washington. This year take uh take
Arizona the go surprise people this year. Appreciate you guys
for let me fill in. Looking forward to
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Doing this tomorrow MORNNGO show Tonight's Ryan Up Next
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