Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I hear you Astros and Rockies back at it, sid
I six o'clock O.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
A good man. He is. He's amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
We'll see if he can power the Rockies to their
twentieth win of the season tonight as they take on
the Astros five six six Nights Zeros or Kwae Commas Brad.
I'll text line if you want to interact with anything
from the show. We've had fun obviously in the first hour,
and we'll get that up a little bit later on.
You can subscribe to the podcast on the completely free
and totally awesome iHeart Radio app, which is now redesigned.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You know, we didn't get into this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Shay Gilders Alexander signing his Max Supermax extension.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Four years, two hundred and eighty five million.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You realize he's actually making more than show heyl tani
Per now over seventy one million.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, but is locked in. Okay, yeah, I've seen even longer.
You think about baseball not a deferred money and on
that because pretty much I think over the entirety of
his contract with the Dodgers, I don't think he's making
over two million a year. All of his money is
coming after the contact, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
The average of it was seventy And so that's why
it's you better hope Major League.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Baseball didn't go default.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Right, man, I swear because you're putting a lot of
faith and I mean line payments.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Speaking of baseball and Grant sedm this to me, that
Shae making seventy one point two five million as an
average annual salary is more than the entire Miami Marlins
payroll of sixty seven point four.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Sounds like baseball. Sounds exactly like baseball. I mean, I've
got to be honest about it.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
That that, and I think Shae is a great young
player and you had you had to give. I've just
I've been shocked where some of the salaries have gone,
and especially in the NBA, because the NBA sort of
tries to who put itself out there as we're doing okay,
(02:04):
but we're not. We don't have the TV deals that
the NFL has. Well, I mean some of these salaries,
you know, tell you that. I mean, they got to
find a way to pay him somehow someways so.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
But good for Shay.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I think if we were in his position, we would
do exactly the same thing. And based on the kind
of year he had, in the situation that he was in.
He was, I mean, right time, right place, And I
think Oklahoma City looked at that as a no brain.
Hard to believe that you'd look at a two hundred
and eighty million dollar commitment as a no brainer, but
(02:40):
I think in.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
This case, that's probably what they thought.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
That's just that's just where we're at right now in basketball,
because well, people don't always realize basketball players will always
make more than football players because end of the as
we have the same salary cap, but instead of fifty
three players have to split the pot on one, it's
fifteen players have to split the pot. So you have
a you know, it's a couple of guys that can
(03:04):
make seventy. And then that's why in basketball we see
backups being in make twenty. You know, you don't you
would never see that in football because there's too many players.
There's too many people in the field at once, So
good for them. I always believe there's enough money out
there for everybody. You know, there's no reason to hate
on the next man. But damn, that's a lot of money.
That's a lot that's that's that's a lot. Good for
(03:26):
him though, Like I never in my lifetime did I
ever think that we would get to a point of
no me, neither of making this much playing sports. But
you see how much money you're making for people, and
the money we're making is actually really pennies if you
really think about it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I just wonder sometimes, and we've had this conversation about quarterbacks,
like is there a bubble?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Right? You reach a bit of a limit.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I mean, it doesn't seem like we're anywhere close to
it now because TV contracts for both NFL and NBA
continue to go up, so I can't imagine that happening
anytime soon. It's one thing to say, well, he's worth that,
because that's what you do. You're the MVP, and he
certainly is a very good player. He means a lot
to that team, But it also like, is he more
(04:11):
important than a quarterback? Because quarterbacks aren't making seventy yet
they will, But is he more important a quarterback?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I guess maybe it kind of is? He is the quarterback? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
By NBA standards, right, I mean he's he's clearly the
most important team on the team that won the championship,
and he averaged over thirty a game, and when things
got sticky, that's the guy.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
They were counting on to.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Either hit the big shot or basically bail him out,
which I thought might be the thing that derailed Oak City,
not anything to do with their defense or but just
the fact that if the game was close, they were
deferential to Shay. And the only game really that was
(04:59):
close was Game four in Indianapolis, and it worked between
Shay and Jay Will, they just sort of back and
forth and ultimately brought them back and in won a
close game.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So yeah, it's amazing. I mean, TV contracts.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Are prohibitively high, and it doesn't look like it's gonna
slow down anytime in the future.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Especially with the streaming. There's all these different you know,
streams of revenue. The money's just gonna keep going up.
And so I'm I'm happy for the players because you know,
they're finally getting their their piece of the pie. As
I would say that. And you know, COVID, especially in
the NFL, COVID slowed down the salary cap when it
(05:44):
really shouldn't have. They just used that as an excuse
and not have to pay players more. You know exactly
what I'm saying. They screwed the players over and they
use COVID as an excuse to do it. But now
it's finally starting to get back on tracks. So I'm
happy for all the guys that get paid.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, Dak Prescott is making the most at quarterback this
year's sixty million per and then Joe Burrows at fifty five,
Josh Allen's fifty five, George loves fifty five, Trevor Lawrence say,
who is a fifty three to your got fifty three?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Et cetera. Anyone gets out silly.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
The economics of this are Patrick Mahomes to make it
forty five on average.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
That'll change probably by then. I'll say before camp, maybe
how much is Mike Brown making?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
That's a good question. Yeah, s I'm with the Knicks.
That's uh.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
The whole process for the.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Knicks has been weird, right, I mean, they've been reaching
out to all these one word.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
They shouldn't have even fired tips in the first place.
That nobody if your goal, if your goal was to
try to go poach somebody from another team, like you
just it doesn't make any sense because all every team
just said no, no, no, And then now you're over
here looking through a pool of candidates. Now aren't even
as good as your own head coach who just had
(07:00):
so and you and my idea, I'm thinking like you
just got worse. But I like Mike Brown as a coach.
It's just that he has had you know, obviously he
did these more the Lakers, but he hasn't had that
much success without Lebron.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I I think the Knicks were not prepared to make
the move. They then talked to players exit interviews. It
became a parent that two or three of their key
guys maybe their key guy, and two or three others
(07:36):
didn't feel like they could go any further with Tom Thibodeau.
So the next reacted. And then after they reacted, they
were like, well, so we're gonna what are we gonna do?
You know, let's let's interview whole bunch of people, And
as Shelby said, they got denied in a public way
with some of the people they tried to interview. Mike Brown.
(07:58):
I've known Mike Brown for a long time. Mike was
an assistant coach at Kansas and also an assistant coach
I believe in Oklahoma State when I was calling games
every weekend. And I agree with Shelby. I think he's
a good basketball coach, was here in Denver for a while.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
But it just I mean, if you're.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
A hardcore Knicks fan, you know, first of all, you
live it in New York, So how happy can you
really be? Second of all, you can't. I mean you
look at this process and say, Mike.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Brown, you can't be happy. You can't. You cannot be happy.
That's hot the splash thought it was going to be
in the East is I mean, because of the injuries?
Why it opened? Why next year? And this doesn't I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Are you you assumed when they let go of to
something big was going to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like they had already thought about it, they had a plan,
you know.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
The rumor was that, you know, they were hard on
Cat because Kat wasn't doing his job defensively, which he
wasn't if you watch the games, but you so this
has to be I'm not saying Mike Brown's a bad
cult or anything, but this has to be a letdown
if you're a Knicks fan. That's just from commercials.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
If I literally can't be in a bad mood listening
to hollow.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Notes, I guess that's why I've never heard.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Of them before. Could you just like Dart, I just
like to be in a bad It's a defensive lineman.
It's definitely a defensive lineman mindset.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Well, you know, just started thinking about you know, your
daughter's four walks and then.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah, that's unacceptable. You know, I'm happy to doing updowns
when you get home.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You all think he's kidding, dog, just kidding, just being
a defensive line aggressed with this, and I wanted to
spend a little time on this, so we'll kind of
start here and then get into it as we get
on the other side. But this was this was put
out best run stoppers in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Well before we even go who put it out? So
I know how legitimate laces and leather? All right, boo, oh.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
My god, But hold on, based on the toll number
of run stops from last season, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Are you counting it? Does it?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Does it matter? How then snaps they played, I mean
games they played. I'm just trying to understand how legitimate,
which is already lost.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
The most important thing is that there are three Broncos
on this. That's that's really what.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
This is about. Laces and leather a real thing. My apologies.
Laces on leather, laces on.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
See I think of something different. I don't think of
necessarily football. I mean, I just don't.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You don't think is he like polaroids on a wall
type thing? Or I don't think of football? Okay, I
mean I am I off.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
You're probably not off.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
This has led to a much bigger conversation about defensive line,
more specifically about run stoppers. I wanted to give you
some love here, Shelby, because we don't really celebrate the
run stuffing defensive.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Lineman as much as we do. That's that's what I
wanted to talk about a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Oh, we don't need to be celebrated. We still get
paid well, honestly, Like that's the thing that is literally
what a run stopping d linman is. Who cares like
we're in there, there's a dirty work. I don't need
people singing my praises because it's not gonna look good,
it's not gonna be flashy. You just gotta get a
job done. And so that's why you know, that's once
you get passed this whole Like I need my name
(11:32):
out there, I need no like, just go out there
and play football and do it the right way. Like
if you if this is what you hang your hat on,
I look at it. Run stuffing d Lineman is like
a hard hat lunch pail. Let's go to work. I'm like,
you know, let's go to work, let's handle it and
then let's go home.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Nonsense. Everything you just said is nonsense.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well maybe maybe maybe you sell yourself on that. Maybe
you talk yourself into that this nonsense. You can't believe that.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Because your contracts are often tied toific performance details.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Run stoppers are never going to hit those performance you gotta,
you gotta, you just got to know the NFL. Now,
it's about the flash, it's about the sacks and the
posting your workout videos and doing all that type of stuff.
But you know, it's always going to be love for
the guys that can stop the run, because what happens
(12:22):
in NFL it's it's it's themes, and it's it's themes
that always end up, you know, reverting back to what
they were. So they used to run the ball heavy,
and they used to be run you know a lot
of run heavy formations and then you know they're like,
all right, let's open them up now because they have
all these big run stoppers on the field, and so
then they're like, all right, let's start throwing the ball.
Let's go spread is just spread it out. So then
(12:45):
it's like, now now you see anybody wants all these
pass rushers on the field. But now what do you
see people going back to? Oh, now they have lighter
guys on the field, let's go run the ball again.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So that's that's where I wanted to go. So Dave,
let me ask you this and we'll continue on the side.
Do you think now that we're seeing, especially this last year,
where we're seeing a bit of a renaissance all of
the run game, do you think now that the NFL
swing back the other way where the inten the intention
for teams will now be more to the run stuffing
defensive lineman.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah, I think the the NFL is is a copycat league,
and I think we've seen a slow kind of I
wouldn't say migration, more of a meandering to the running game.
And when and when that happens, then you're going to
have more more teams that bring in different looking guys
(13:40):
up front.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So yeah, I mean, I think, I think, I mean,
the good teams have always.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
I think one thing, even even in today's game in
the NFL, where teams throw the ball all the time,
I mean, the the old axiom in terms of run
the ball and stop the run I think still apply
today for the best teams. They find ways in a
creative way. Might not look like you used to, but
they can run the ball, and the best teams are
(14:10):
teams that can stop the run.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Talk about the concept of the run stuffing defensive lineman,
which of course you're very much aware of, Shelby, more
importantly because the Broncos made a very intentional decision to
invest in that last offseason. So the first season that
Sean Payton was here with Russell Wilson, the defensive line
(14:36):
was a sif against the run.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And I want to know why.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I'd love to know from your perspective, why a defense
is bad against the run and why a defense is
good against the run. I think that's a fascinating thing
because it can't be just about adding more bodies because
there's only so many guys that can play on the field.
So is it a scheme thing, is it a technique thing,
is it a certain coaching I mean, i'd love to
know your perspective on why we have good run defenses
and why we have bad run defenses.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
The way you have good run decent defenses is discipline,
gap integrity. What that means is you stay in the
gap that is yours. So if I'm playing a three tech,
my gap will be the B gap, and it's called
staying in that B gap, not trying to jump to
the A gap or jump to the C gap necessarily to.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Make plays playing football your whole life.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I mean, imagine all these guys, no, okay, undisciplined.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Undisciplined play is common and around the league. And that's
also these running backs now are so good that the
minute you try to you leave your gap and try
to take care of somebody else's gap, they have vision
and they're waiting patiently. Imagine like a Le'veyon Bell just
sitting there, just waiting sure, and then the minute you
(15:51):
pop out, like say Kwan. The biggest thing that we
when we played the Eagles this year, our whole, all
whole game plan was to stay in your gap up
no matter what you think is going on, stay in
your gap because Tay Kwon's going to find it if
you leave. And that's what happens, and so you know,
like I said, it's want to how bad do you
want to stay and how bad do you not want
(16:13):
to let your defense? You know, and the rest of
your teammates down. But you know, some people are trying
to make that play and it ends up screwing over
the rest of the team. Or it could be the linebackers.
The linebackers over here get faked out and it leaves
a gap wide open and the running backs hits it
for twenty yards. The way that run defense works, it
(16:34):
has to truly be all eleven working together to stop
the ball, and it could take one undispanbed player out
of those eleven and you have a ninety yard run.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So from your perspective, Dave, I'm being around the game
because we're I asked him about what makes for a
good run defense and what makes for a bag because
I imagine most teams when they put together their roster,
especially their their starters and their death and all those
kinds of things, they don't go into the season saying, wow, God,
we might be really terrible on run defense this year.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
You you always want to be good at it. So
that was his perspective.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
It's it's about want to, it's about technique, it's about
gap discipline. How much of coaching do you think ties
into what he's saying, because that sounds like more of
an individualistic players have to understand and approach that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
How much does the coaching play into that?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Well, I mean, I think I think more than people
would believe.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
In the NFL, you, I mean, you gotta have the
right players.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
You got to have the right players that have the
right mindset, and I mean gap integrity and tackling are
the two things that I think are really really important
to making a good defense.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
But it's you know, it's easy to talk about gap integrity.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Hey, you've got you know, as Shelby said, if he's
a three tech, he's got the B gap. But you
have to have somebody first of all that has the
ability to take on big people. And then there's got
to be sort of a pride factor and a want
to because there are gonna be times that if you're
(18:10):
you're a three tech, I mean, it's going to be
easier for you based on what the offensive lineman does,
or maybe you want to try to arm over and
get real fancy and not not you know, be regimented
and disciplined.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
In where those hands go. Are you willing to?
Speaker 4 (18:29):
You know, for seventy plays a game, take on a
three hundred and thirty pound guard who's trying to completely
knock you off your feet and knock you backwards into
the linebackers. It takes a different kind of sort of
breed a cat to do that. It's got to be
somebody who's big and strong, obviously, but then it's got
(18:52):
to be somebody who's like, hey man, I mean I'm here,
I'm here for the duration today, Like bring whatever you
got over here. Guys that don't, guys that are not
consistently great players, try to take the easy way out.
They try to, like I said, arm over, or they
try to sneak up and you know, slide through. Hey listen, man,
(19:15):
that's your gap. You got to defend your gap, get
your ass down and not get driven off the ball.
And then if you don't make the tackle, you know what,
somebody else will, and then you don't get any credit.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
That's your position though. That's why we pay you.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Man, You know what I Meantimes I've seen someone try
to swim off a block or lazily try to snatch
off a block and they end up on opposite sideline.
You know, it's it's it's such a want to thing
because I tell you, I talked to the most trash
I have to run plays compare to their pass plays,
because it's.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Me versus you.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Hey, you thought you got hey, you got a dog today,
You got a dog today. Try to stop me. It
goes crazy in the trenches on run plays because it's
literally momoy motto like come move me out so that
you guys can move the ball up. Don't let it
be a double team and no, and there's no movement.
I man, y'all, Sorry, y'all, sorry, y'all, y'all's And that's
(20:13):
the beauty of it though, because everyone knows, like the
offensive line knows and the defensive line and the defensive
line knows. If it's a run play, it's a war.
That play is a war. Like that's when you want
to hit a lot of my claps, The lot of
bangs is on a run play.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
It's all.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
That's why I say it's one tube, because you have
a lot of guys who will go out there and
rush the passo and do our stuff, but then you
see them get a double team and they drop to
the ground.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
They don't want to handle that.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And that's that's the difference is you you you need,
like they said, that mindset, you need that dog to
go out there and really change.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It up on them.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So how sustainable is that year over year because because
again the Broncos did a great job adjusting from year
one to year two.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Than who you have, okay on your personnel, Like you
look at Philadelphia last year. I mean Vic Fangio was
the you can sub coordinator. He had his front was active, stout.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You know, they were difficult to block.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
And then once they got control of the run game,
you know, they had enough ability they could they could
pressure the passer. Those two edge guys were above average
you know, edge pass rushers.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So I think, I think to answer.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Your question, it just depends on what guys you have
got to be able to stay healthy, you know, I
mean from one year to the other, so many variables
take place, and guys that played one year a certain
way come back and you know, maybe maybe they've got
a little bit of a shoulder thing and they're not
quite as stout when they you know, press and it
(21:49):
just little things happened and that's why the league, even
though you're bringing everybody back from a particular team, that
team is going to be a little bit different that.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
That next year. Right.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
The circumstances of each game are different, no matter if
the guys and the coaching staff is the same.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
But that's why I say that run stoppers are still
valuable in this game. Teams still go out and look
for those guys because they do know that a lot
of the guys that will go out there and Russia
pass are on on third down. They're not necessarily guys
that they won on there on first first and first down, yes,
or or third and third and two, third and three,
(22:31):
you know what I mean, Like where you where you
assume you might get a run, They're not necessarily guys
you would wan on there because a lot of pass
rushing nowadays is finesse and run stoppings all physicality.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, and that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You know, I was giving you a little bit a
hard time earlier about the lunch box mentality, but I
get it. I get why if you're going to be
very good at that specific trade, because you know you're
probably not going to be an elite pass rusher or
you're not pegged to be that, right, that that isn't
what they're asking you to do. Well, then you have
to have a lunch box mentality, because what else you have, Right,
(23:04):
you have to have sort of a belief in your
work and a belief in your technique and the ability
to continue to fight because it's going to be a
long day for you too, right, you want to make
it a longer day for them.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I do think that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I wonder is that something because this stuff is like
the nerdy football stuff that I get into. Is it
something that a guy can be bad at and improve at.
Is it something that is like you could learn techniques
to be better or is there more of a body
type because I know, like the big guys like you,
we know what a nose tack looks like.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
We know that.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But you know, if you're a three tech, right, you're
a defensive end on edge. We kind of know some
of those body types too. So that's what's fascinating to me.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It's not necessarily a body type. It's really I would
say it's a mindset. But sometimes you know, some people
think they're going in there to play around and they
get thrown out the club. You know that that's just
what it is, you know. Our funniest thing. You know,
if you ever see somebody getting messed up with a
(24:06):
play and they're getting like, you know, thrown across the lines,
always say no white T's in the club. It's like
it's like the bouncer throwing, you know, throwing them out
the club. But I just believe that to play the run,
you know, there is a technique thing to it though.
It's where your hands are placed, it's how you know,
it's what arms you're you're you're really putting all your
power through. Is my my goal. And when I'm playing
(24:29):
a round, let's say it's a double team, if I'm
lined up at the three tech, my goal to knock
the guard back because if you can get them on
different levels, that that deters how much power they have
to drive you out of there. And then if you
go on different levels, that guard is taught to just
go like bump and go to second level. So you're
not gonna get as hard as a double team that way.
(24:49):
So it's it's it's so many different ways you can
do it. But technique wise you can get better. But
your body type can help. But all so it can
hurt you too. Really, it can hurts you because you know,
if you're a biggest slow guide, you still got to
take those steps. And I think when you know that,
some D linemen have an issue if when you know
(25:12):
there's a double team coming, you don't take the steps
or your second step is slow. You got to get
those two steps in the ground as fast as you
can because if your feet are.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Off, you on one foot, you have no power.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Like I've gotten caught on one foot before, but like
luckily I'm strong enough I've been able to you know,
survive it.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
That's the same thing for offensive lineman. Sure right, they're
working on the first step and that second step. They're
trying to get in the ground as fast as they
can because the game is so fast in a split second,
if you take that first step and you don't get
that second step down, a guy like him takes his
(25:52):
first two steps and that power base that that offensive
lineman is at a complete disadvantage.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Like if you watch Broncos camp, what you will see
is if you watch the D lineman at some point
if every practice, are going to watch them working on
their get off, You're going to watch them telling them
to get them both feeding the ground one two, one
two as quick as you possibly can, and it's like
a race between O linemen and D line who can
get their feed in the ground fastest and going forward.
(26:19):
That's really the name of the game when it comes
to stopping the run.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's fascinating. I mean, that's cool. Again.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I think we do spend time. I think NFL fans
generally spend time talking about the.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Guys that get sacks.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I mean, those get the headlines, they get the MVP nods,
the conversations. But the run defense that things is really cool.
It's when I saw that graphic that Grant shared with me.
I started to think about this defensive line and if
they can sustain that kind of production this year, can
they sustain being that good against the run, which was
obviously a big goal of this team going from year
one to year two. Now in year three, expectations for
(26:52):
this defense continue to be kind of through the roof.
I mean, you look at every every single website out
there has the Broncos inside the top five. Top three
of them came out today and had it was number one,
and a lot of that's dimmed from the fact that
they're considered to be a good run defense, and they
as a result, to your point, David, they rack up
the sacks two Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I mean I'm listening. I'm anxious to see it. I was.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I was happy the DJ Jones got re signed. He's
coming back. You've got John Franklin Myers, You've got Zach Allen.
I mean, you've got a lot of tested veterans that
have been through the battles and now are are presumably
comfortable in in Vj's defense.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
How important is it to develop the guys behind them?
Since we've talked about this offseason, how you can't pay
everybody Zach Allen, I so.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
You you you always want to develop him and never
was not never have to you never have to use them.
I mean the defensive lines, you know, used to be
those guys never came off the field. Now they're rotated
in for sure, But you know what what you want,
you want to develop them to war.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
At some point during the game. You can rest your your.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Front line guys and rest them in a way that
you have competent young players replacing them, and then you know,
you that's that's part of the thing. In terms of
the rotation on either side of the ball. But you
want as a defensive I think a defensive coach, you
want to be able to in the last of a
close game, in the last like five and a half
(28:28):
minutes of the game. I want my front line guys
in the game. I want them rested. I don't want them,
you know, if they just have gone on a fifteen
play scoring drive the other offense and I get the
same group back out there.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's there's a lot of there's a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I mean, there's a lot of things that go through
the minds of play callers, and then I think it's
fascinating in terms of I think when people watch like
a nine on seven drill or whatever, they think these
are just like big guys like going at it. There
is so much going on in terms of where this
(29:04):
guy lines up, how is he any stances he lighting?
His stance is the tackle kind of leaning down? If
I'm a three tech hand placement, both feet in the ground.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
There's a lot of thinking and little.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Things that go on in the interior part of play
that I think is really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
If you're really a football fan, absolutely well.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I've seen teams going back to the development that I've
seen teams not developed guys, and it gets cruis late
in the season because injuries you got to play them.
The one thing in the NFL that is a guarantee
is that you're going to have injuries. And so that's why,
more than in the NBA, development is such a big
deal because you're at some point if you're on you know,
(29:48):
we always say this, We always say this every year,
and you know, Jim Schwartz has said this multiple times,
you know, and it's usually in the beginning the season.
He always says, if you're on this team, it's each
man roster or practice squad, you at some point will
have to play, and we, at some point will have
to depend on you to play. And I think with
(30:09):
some coaches that gets lost because you're so worried about
the guys that are playing right now that you don't
want to develop. I've seen it, like when I was
in like when I was in Oakland, every times where
you know, I was at bottom of the roster guy
and they're trying to skip over my reps, like my
reps an individual period, wow, And I'm like, no, like
(30:31):
I need those reps. And luckily I had older guys
that would be like no, like let them get the rep.
And so that's that's things that happen in the league
that will stunt the development of the younger players. But
then all that does is make your coach look bad
when it's time to actually go out there and play.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I have one more question on this and then you know, when
we come back into this side, I want to talk
about the concept of all in what that looks like
for a player. But you're talking about the account of ability.
Portion of it is that you said it takes like
one guy not doing his job for really the entire
defense to look bad and run for example. So is
that accountability something that is internally policed by the players
(31:13):
like you man, you are not in your gap? Or
is that something that the coaches kind of take the ring?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So it goes both ways. So in my time in Denver,
I was always next to Draymont, usually next to Draymont,
and then when I was in Cleveland, I've been next
to Dalvin Thomlinson who's in Arizona. Now, which do you
guys have a joint practice against?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Good Luck? He's a docky, he's a doggie. So we
have the best offensive line.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I wouldn't say that because Dalvin'sdalvin's good, But I would
say this though, like we would the way it works
when we're in Cleveland. You know, let's just say, let's
say I messed up. I'll turn to Dalvin. I'd be like,
that's on me. I won't let you down again, you
know what I mean, Like like as a vet, like
I will blatantly make I messed up, and I'll tell
(32:00):
you I'll messed up that. Don't worry about that.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
That's on me.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Well, eventually a lot of those that's on me. Eventually
it's like, hey, we're gonna need somebody else in here.
We can't have too many that's on me, you know
what I mean. Like that's in the game. It needs
to be the player who's like, I messed up because
you don't have a run. You have an iPad that
you're looking at after and it only has stills, it
(32:25):
has still shots. You're not watching video of what happens.
So you need some type of accountability so that we
can fix it on the sideline so it doesn't happen again.
So that's where the player's accountability will come up, and
you have to own up to it and then just
move on. And the biggest thing the players dowadate is
(32:46):
they mess up once and it's stuck in their headdress
in the game. Yeah, man, this over eighty players in
a game. Who cares if you got one out of
eighty on it? If you got one wrong out of
eighty on a test, you should be happy. Yeah, you know,
that's what you have got to get over it.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Although it's funny, David, we've we've talked to them before.
As you know, for offensive lineman or cornerbacks. Sometimes you know,
one wrong is the highlight reel that everybody sees on
Sports Center. Right, it's like, hey, that offensive lineman have
a good game or a bad game, Well, for seventy
plays he was great. That one play is the one
that everybody's showing is his quarterback got destroyed.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Yeah, And Shelby's right in terms of I think players
have to be accountable, and I think it's it's it's
the right thing to do for a veteran who screws
up to say, hey that's me, I got it. But
too many that's me get you fired, and too many
that's me from players gets you replaced. So it's kind
(33:45):
of like dropping a pass.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Right. There's more drop passes.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
In the NFL now than I think there used to be,
And maybe part of it is there's a lot more
balls being thrown in the air, so there's more opportunity.
But like you drop the ball and then you come back,
I mean you you are trying to find somewhere to
stick your head in some sand so nobody can see you.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
If you do that too many times, you're not You're
not going to have a job. Same thing putting the
ball on the ground, right, I mean players come over
off the sideline and say, hey, that's my bad. Coaches
are not trying to hear that's my bad. Bill Belichick
didn't care about my ground. Right, keep the ball, you
know Bill Belichick. If you fumbled with Bill Belichick, you
might get cut. And that's the accountability part of it.
(34:34):
Don't let your team down.
I hear you Astros and Rockies back at it, sid
I six o'clock O.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
A good man. He is. He's amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
We'll see if he can power the Rockies to their
twentieth win of the season tonight as they take on
the Astros five six six Nights Zeros or Kwae Commas Brad.
I'll text line if you want to interact with anything
from the show. We've had fun obviously in the first hour,
and we'll get that up a little bit later on.
You can subscribe to the podcast on the completely free
and totally awesome iHeart Radio app, which is now redesigned.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You know, we didn't get into this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Shay Gilders Alexander signing his Max Supermax extension.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Four years, two hundred and eighty five million.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
You realize he's actually making more than show heyl tani
Per now over seventy one million.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, but is locked in. Okay, yeah, I've seen even longer.
You think about baseball not a deferred money and on
that because pretty much I think over the entirety of
his contract with the Dodgers, I don't think he's making
over two million a year. All of his money is
coming after the contact, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
The average of it was seventy And so that's why
it's you better hope Major League.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Baseball didn't go default.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Right, man, I swear because you're putting a lot of
faith and I mean line payments.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Speaking of baseball and Grant sedm this to me, that
Shae making seventy one point two five million as an
average annual salary is more than the entire Miami Marlins
payroll of sixty seven point four.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Sounds like baseball. Sounds exactly like baseball. I mean, I've
got to be honest about it.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
That that, and I think Shae is a great young
player and you had you had to give. I've just
I've been shocked where some of the salaries have gone,
and especially in the NBA, because the NBA sort of
tries to who put itself out there as we're doing okay,
(02:04):
but we're not. We don't have the TV deals that
the NFL has. Well, I mean some of these salaries,
you know, tell you that. I mean, they got to
find a way to pay him somehow someways so.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
But good for Shay.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I think if we were in his position, we would
do exactly the same thing. And based on the kind
of year he had, in the situation that he was in.
He was, I mean, right time, right place, And I
think Oklahoma City looked at that as a no brain.
Hard to believe that you'd look at a two hundred
and eighty million dollar commitment as a no brainer, but
(02:40):
I think in.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
This case, that's probably what they thought.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
That's just that's just where we're at right now in basketball,
because well, people don't always realize basketball players will always
make more than football players because end of the as
we have the same salary cap, but instead of fifty
three players have to split the pot on one, it's
fifteen players have to split the pot. So you have
a you know, it's a couple of guys that can
(03:04):
make seventy. And then that's why in basketball we see
backups being in make twenty. You know, you don't you
would never see that in football because there's too many players.
There's too many people in the field at once, So
good for them. I always believe there's enough money out
there for everybody. You know, there's no reason to hate
on the next man. But damn, that's a lot of money.
That's a lot that's that's that's a lot. Good for
(03:26):
him though, Like I never in my lifetime did I
ever think that we would get to a point of
no me, neither of making this much playing sports. But
you see how much money you're making for people, and
the money we're making is actually really pennies if you
really think about it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I just wonder sometimes, and we've had this conversation about quarterbacks,
like is there a bubble?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Right? You reach a bit of a limit.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I mean, it doesn't seem like we're anywhere close to
it now because TV contracts for both NFL and NBA
continue to go up, so I can't imagine that happening
anytime soon. It's one thing to say, well, he's worth that,
because that's what you do. You're the MVP, and he
certainly is a very good player. He means a lot
to that team, But it also like, is he more
(04:11):
important than a quarterback? Because quarterbacks aren't making seventy yet
they will, But is he more important a quarterback?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I guess maybe it kind of is? He is the quarterback? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
By NBA standards, right, I mean he's he's clearly the
most important team on the team that won the championship,
and he averaged over thirty a game, and when things
got sticky, that's the guy.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
They were counting on to.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Either hit the big shot or basically bail him out,
which I thought might be the thing that derailed Oak City,
not anything to do with their defense or but just
the fact that if the game was close, they were
deferential to Shay. And the only game really that was
(04:59):
close was Game four in Indianapolis, and it worked between
Shay and Jay Will, they just sort of back and
forth and ultimately brought them back and in won a
close game.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So yeah, it's amazing. I mean, TV contracts.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Are prohibitively high, and it doesn't look like it's gonna
slow down anytime in the future.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Especially with the streaming. There's all these different you know,
streams of revenue. The money's just gonna keep going up.
And so I'm I'm happy for the players because you know,
they're finally getting their their piece of the pie. As
I would say that. And you know, COVID, especially in
the NFL, COVID slowed down the salary cap when it
(05:44):
really shouldn't have. They just used that as an excuse
and not have to pay players more. You know exactly
what I'm saying. They screwed the players over and they
use COVID as an excuse to do it. But now
it's finally starting to get back on tracks. So I'm
happy for all the guys that get paid.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, Dak Prescott is making the most at quarterback this
year's sixty million per and then Joe Burrows at fifty five,
Josh Allen's fifty five, George loves fifty five, Trevor Lawrence say,
who is a fifty three to your got fifty three?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Et cetera. Anyone gets out silly.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
The economics of this are Patrick Mahomes to make it
forty five on average.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
That'll change probably by then. I'll say before camp, maybe
how much is Mike Brown making?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
That's a good question. Yeah, s I'm with the Knicks.
That's uh.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
The whole process for the.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Knicks has been weird, right, I mean, they've been reaching
out to all these one word.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
They shouldn't have even fired tips in the first place.
That nobody if your goal, if your goal was to
try to go poach somebody from another team, like you
just it doesn't make any sense because all every team
just said no, no, no, And then now you're over
here looking through a pool of candidates. Now aren't even
as good as your own head coach who just had
(07:00):
so and you and my idea, I'm thinking like you
just got worse. But I like Mike Brown as a coach.
It's just that he has had you know, obviously he
did these more the Lakers, but he hasn't had that
much success without Lebron.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I I think the Knicks were not prepared to make
the move. They then talked to players exit interviews. It
became a parent that two or three of their key
guys maybe their key guy, and two or three others
(07:36):
didn't feel like they could go any further with Tom Thibodeau.
So the next reacted. And then after they reacted, they
were like, well, so we're gonna what are we gonna do?
You know, let's let's interview whole bunch of people, And
as Shelby said, they got denied in a public way
with some of the people they tried to interview. Mike Brown.
(07:58):
I've known Mike Brown for a long time. Mike was
an assistant coach at Kansas and also an assistant coach
I believe in Oklahoma State when I was calling games
every weekend. And I agree with Shelby. I think he's
a good basketball coach, was here in Denver for a while.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
But it just I mean, if you're.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
A hardcore Knicks fan, you know, first of all, you
live it in New York, So how happy can you
really be? Second of all, you can't. I mean you
look at this process and say, Mike.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Brown, you can't be happy. You can't. You cannot be happy.
That's hot the splash thought it was going to be
in the East is I mean, because of the injuries?
Why it opened? Why next year? And this doesn't I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Are you you assumed when they let go of to
something big was going to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Like they had already thought about it, they had a plan,
you know.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
The rumor was that, you know, they were hard on
Cat because Kat wasn't doing his job defensively, which he
wasn't if you watch the games, but you so this
has to be I'm not saying Mike Brown's a bad
cult or anything, but this has to be a letdown
if you're a Knicks fan. That's just from commercials.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
If I literally can't be in a bad mood listening
to hollow.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Notes, I guess that's why I've never heard.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Of them before. Could you just like Dart, I just
like to be in a bad It's a defensive lineman.
It's definitely a defensive lineman mindset.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Well, you know, just started thinking about you know, your
daughter's four walks and then.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Yeah, that's unacceptable. You know, I'm happy to doing updowns
when you get home.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You all think he's kidding, dog, just kidding, just being
a defensive line aggressed with this, and I wanted to
spend a little time on this, so we'll kind of
start here and then get into it as we get
on the other side. But this was this was put
out best run stoppers in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Well before we even go who put it out? So
I know how legitimate laces and leather? All right, boo, oh.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
My god, But hold on, based on the toll number
of run stops from last season, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Are you counting it? Does it?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Does it matter? How then snaps they played, I mean
games they played. I'm just trying to understand how legitimate,
which is already lost.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
The most important thing is that there are three Broncos
on this. That's that's really what.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
This is about. Laces and leather a real thing. My apologies.
Laces on leather, laces on.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
See I think of something different. I don't think of
necessarily football. I mean, I just don't.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You don't think is he like polaroids on a wall
type thing? Or I don't think of football? Okay, I
mean I am I off.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
You're probably not off.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
This has led to a much bigger conversation about defensive line,
more specifically about run stoppers. I wanted to give you
some love here, Shelby, because we don't really celebrate the
run stuffing defensive.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Lineman as much as we do. That's that's what I
wanted to talk about a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Oh, we don't need to be celebrated. We still get
paid well, honestly, Like that's the thing that is literally
what a run stopping d linman is. Who cares like
we're in there, there's a dirty work. I don't need
people singing my praises because it's not gonna look good,
it's not gonna be flashy. You just gotta get a
job done. And so that's why you know, that's once
you get passed this whole Like I need my name
(11:32):
out there, I need no like, just go out there
and play football and do it the right way. Like
if you if this is what you hang your hat on,
I look at it. Run stuffing d Lineman is like
a hard hat lunch pail. Let's go to work. I'm like,
you know, let's go to work, let's handle it and
then let's go home.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Nonsense. Everything you just said is nonsense.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well maybe maybe maybe you sell yourself on that. Maybe
you talk yourself into that this nonsense. You can't believe that.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Because your contracts are often tied toific performance details.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Run stoppers are never going to hit those performance you gotta,
you gotta, you just got to know the NFL. Now,
it's about the flash, it's about the sacks and the
posting your workout videos and doing all that type of stuff.
But you know, it's always going to be love for
the guys that can stop the run, because what happens
(12:22):
in NFL it's it's it's themes, and it's it's themes
that always end up, you know, reverting back to what
they were. So they used to run the ball heavy,
and they used to be run you know a lot
of run heavy formations and then you know they're like,
all right, let's open them up now because they have
all these big run stoppers on the field, and so
then they're like, all right, let's start throwing the ball.
Let's go spread is just spread it out. So then
(12:45):
it's like, now now you see anybody wants all these
pass rushers on the field. But now what do you
see people going back to? Oh, now they have lighter
guys on the field, let's go run the ball again.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So that's that's where I wanted to go. So Dave,
let me ask you this and we'll continue on the side.
Do you think now that we're seeing, especially this last year,
where we're seeing a bit of a renaissance all of
the run game, do you think now that the NFL
swing back the other way where the inten the intention
for teams will now be more to the run stuffing
defensive lineman.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah, I think the the NFL is is a copycat league,
and I think we've seen a slow kind of I
wouldn't say migration, more of a meandering to the running game.
And when and when that happens, then you're going to
have more more teams that bring in different looking guys
(13:40):
up front.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So yeah, I mean, I think, I think, I mean,
the good teams have always.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
I think one thing, even even in today's game in
the NFL, where teams throw the ball all the time,
I mean, the the old axiom in terms of run
the ball and stop the run I think still apply
today for the best teams. They find ways in a
creative way. Might not look like you used to, but
they can run the ball, and the best teams are
(14:10):
teams that can stop the run.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Talk about the concept of the run stuffing defensive lineman,
which of course you're very much aware of, Shelby, more
importantly because the Broncos made a very intentional decision to
invest in that last offseason. So the first season that
Sean Payton was here with Russell Wilson, the defensive line
(14:36):
was a sif against the run.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And I want to know why.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I'd love to know from your perspective, why a defense
is bad against the run and why a defense is
good against the run. I think that's a fascinating thing
because it can't be just about adding more bodies because
there's only so many guys that can play on the field.
So is it a scheme thing, is it a technique thing,
is it a certain coaching I mean, i'd love to
know your perspective on why we have good run defenses
and why we have bad run defenses.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
The way you have good run decent defenses is discipline,
gap integrity. What that means is you stay in the
gap that is yours. So if I'm playing a three tech,
my gap will be the B gap, and it's called
staying in that B gap, not trying to jump to
the A gap or jump to the C gap necessarily to.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Make plays playing football your whole life.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I mean, imagine all these guys, no, okay, undisciplined.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Undisciplined play is common and around the league. And that's
also these running backs now are so good that the
minute you try to you leave your gap and try
to take care of somebody else's gap, they have vision
and they're waiting patiently. Imagine like a Le'veyon Bell just
sitting there, just waiting sure, and then the minute you
(15:51):
pop out, like say Kwan. The biggest thing that we
when we played the Eagles this year, our whole, all
whole game plan was to stay in your gap up
no matter what you think is going on, stay in
your gap because Tay Kwon's going to find it if
you leave. And that's what happens, and so you know,
like I said, it's want to how bad do you
want to stay and how bad do you not want
(16:13):
to let your defense? You know, and the rest of
your teammates down. But you know, some people are trying
to make that play and it ends up screwing over
the rest of the team. Or it could be the linebackers.
The linebackers over here get faked out and it leaves
a gap wide open and the running backs hits it
for twenty yards. The way that run defense works, it
(16:34):
has to truly be all eleven working together to stop
the ball, and it could take one undispanbed player out
of those eleven and you have a ninety yard run.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So from your perspective, Dave, I'm being around the game
because we're I asked him about what makes for a
good run defense and what makes for a bag because
I imagine most teams when they put together their roster,
especially their their starters and their death and all those
kinds of things, they don't go into the season saying, wow, God,
we might be really terrible on run defense this year.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
You you always want to be good at it. So
that was his perspective.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
It's it's about want to, it's about technique, it's about
gap discipline. How much of coaching do you think ties
into what he's saying, because that sounds like more of
an individualistic players have to understand and approach that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
How much does the coaching play into that?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Well, I mean, I think I think more than people
would believe.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
In the NFL, you, I mean, you gotta have the
right players.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
You got to have the right players that have the
right mindset, and I mean gap integrity and tackling are
the two things that I think are really really important
to making a good defense.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
But it's you know, it's easy to talk about gap integrity.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Hey, you've got you know, as Shelby said, if he's
a three tech, he's got the B gap. But you
have to have somebody first of all that has the
ability to take on big people. And then there's got
to be sort of a pride factor and a want
to because there are gonna be times that if you're
(18:10):
you're a three tech, I mean, it's going to be
easier for you based on what the offensive lineman does,
or maybe you want to try to arm over and
get real fancy and not not you know, be regimented
and disciplined.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
In where those hands go. Are you willing to?
Speaker 4 (18:29):
You know, for seventy plays a game, take on a
three hundred and thirty pound guard who's trying to completely
knock you off your feet and knock you backwards into
the linebackers. It takes a different kind of sort of
breed a cat to do that. It's got to be
somebody who's big and strong, obviously, but then it's got
(18:52):
to be somebody who's like, hey man, I mean I'm here,
I'm here for the duration today, Like bring whatever you
got over here. Guys that don't, guys that are not
consistently great players, try to take the easy way out.
They try to, like I said, arm over, or they
try to sneak up and you know, slide through. Hey listen, man,
(19:15):
that's your gap. You got to defend your gap, get
your ass down and not get driven off the ball.
And then if you don't make the tackle, you know what,
somebody else will, and then you don't get any credit.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
That's your position though. That's why we pay you.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Man, You know what I Meantimes I've seen someone try
to swim off a block or lazily try to snatch
off a block and they end up on opposite sideline.
You know, it's it's it's such a want to thing
because I tell you, I talked to the most trash
I have to run plays compare to their pass plays,
because it's.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Me versus you.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Hey, you thought you got hey, you got a dog today,
You got a dog today. Try to stop me. It
goes crazy in the trenches on run plays because it's
literally momoy motto like come move me out so that
you guys can move the ball up. Don't let it
be a double team and no, and there's no movement.
I man, y'all, Sorry, y'all, sorry, y'all, y'all's And that's
(20:13):
the beauty of it though, because everyone knows, like the
offensive line knows and the defensive line and the defensive
line knows. If it's a run play, it's a war.
That play is a war. Like that's when you want
to hit a lot of my claps, The lot of
bangs is on a run play.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
It's all.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
That's why I say it's one tube, because you have
a lot of guys who will go out there and
rush the passo and do our stuff, but then you
see them get a double team and they drop to
the ground.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
They don't want to handle that.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And that's that's the difference is you you you need,
like they said, that mindset, you need that dog to
go out there and really change.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It up on them.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So how sustainable is that year over year because because
again the Broncos did a great job adjusting from year
one to year two.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Than who you have, okay on your personnel, Like you
look at Philadelphia last year. I mean Vic Fangio was
the you can sub coordinator. He had his front was active, stout.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You know, they were difficult to block.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
And then once they got control of the run game,
you know, they had enough ability they could they could
pressure the passer. Those two edge guys were above average
you know, edge pass rushers.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So I think, I think to answer.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Your question, it just depends on what guys you have
got to be able to stay healthy, you know, I
mean from one year to the other, so many variables
take place, and guys that played one year a certain
way come back and you know, maybe maybe they've got
a little bit of a shoulder thing and they're not
quite as stout when they you know, press and it
(21:49):
just little things happened and that's why the league, even
though you're bringing everybody back from a particular team, that
team is going to be a little bit different that.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
That next year. Right.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
The circumstances of each game are different, no matter if
the guys and the coaching staff is the same.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
But that's why I say that run stoppers are still
valuable in this game. Teams still go out and look
for those guys because they do know that a lot
of the guys that will go out there and Russia
pass are on on third down. They're not necessarily guys
that they won on there on first first and first down, yes,
or or third and third and two, third and three,
(22:31):
you know what I mean, Like where you where you
assume you might get a run, They're not necessarily guys
you would wan on there because a lot of pass
rushing nowadays is finesse and run stoppings all physicality.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, and that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
You know, I was giving you a little bit a
hard time earlier about the lunch box mentality, but I
get it. I get why if you're going to be
very good at that specific trade, because you know you're
probably not going to be an elite pass rusher or
you're not pegged to be that, right, that that isn't
what they're asking you to do. Well, then you have
to have a lunch box mentality, because what else you have, Right,
(23:04):
you have to have sort of a belief in your
work and a belief in your technique and the ability
to continue to fight because it's going to be a
long day for you too, right, you want to make
it a longer day for them.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I do think that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I wonder is that something because this stuff is like
the nerdy football stuff that I get into. Is it
something that a guy can be bad at and improve at.
Is it something that is like you could learn techniques
to be better or is there more of a body
type because I know, like the big guys like you,
we know what a nose tack looks like.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
We know that.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But you know, if you're a three tech, right, you're
a defensive end on edge. We kind of know some
of those body types too. So that's what's fascinating to me.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
It's not necessarily a body type. It's really I would
say it's a mindset. But sometimes you know, some people
think they're going in there to play around and they
get thrown out the club. You know that that's just
what it is, you know. Our funniest thing. You know,
if you ever see somebody getting messed up with a
(24:06):
play and they're getting like, you know, thrown across the lines,
always say no white T's in the club. It's like
it's like the bouncer throwing, you know, throwing them out
the club. But I just believe that to play the run,
you know, there is a technique thing to it though.
It's where your hands are placed, it's how you know,
it's what arms you're you're you're really putting all your
power through. Is my my goal. And when I'm playing
(24:29):
a round, let's say it's a double team, if I'm
lined up at the three tech, my goal to knock
the guard back because if you can get them on
different levels, that that deters how much power they have
to drive you out of there. And then if you
go on different levels, that guard is taught to just
go like bump and go to second level. So you're
not gonna get as hard as a double team that way.
(24:49):
So it's it's it's so many different ways you can
do it. But technique wise you can get better. But
your body type can help. But all so it can
hurt you too. Really, it can hurts you because you know,
if you're a biggest slow guide, you still got to
take those steps. And I think when you know that,
some D linemen have an issue if when you know
(25:12):
there's a double team coming, you don't take the steps
or your second step is slow. You got to get
those two steps in the ground as fast as you
can because if your feet are.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Off, you on one foot, you have no power.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Like I've gotten caught on one foot before, but like
luckily I'm strong enough I've been able to you know,
survive it.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
That's the same thing for offensive lineman. Sure right, they're
working on the first step and that second step. They're
trying to get in the ground as fast as they
can because the game is so fast in a split second,
if you take that first step and you don't get
that second step down, a guy like him takes his
(25:52):
first two steps and that power base that that offensive
lineman is at a complete disadvantage.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Like if you watch Broncos camp, what you will see
is if you watch the D lineman at some point
if every practice, are going to watch them working on
their get off, You're going to watch them telling them
to get them both feeding the ground one two, one
two as quick as you possibly can, and it's like
a race between O linemen and D line who can
get their feed in the ground fastest and going forward.
(26:19):
That's really the name of the game when it comes
to stopping the run.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's fascinating. I mean, that's cool. Again.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I think we do spend time. I think NFL fans
generally spend time talking about the.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Guys that get sacks.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I mean, those get the headlines, they get the MVP nods,
the conversations. But the run defense that things is really cool.
It's when I saw that graphic that Grant shared with me.
I started to think about this defensive line and if
they can sustain that kind of production this year, can
they sustain being that good against the run, which was
obviously a big goal of this team going from year
one to year two. Now in year three, expectations for
(26:52):
this defense continue to be kind of through the roof.
I mean, you look at every every single website out
there has the Broncos inside the top five. Top three
of them came out today and had it was number one,
and a lot of that's dimmed from the fact that
they're considered to be a good run defense, and they
as a result, to your point, David, they rack up
the sacks two Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I mean I'm listening. I'm anxious to see it. I was.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I was happy the DJ Jones got re signed. He's
coming back. You've got John Franklin Myers, You've got Zach Allen.
I mean, you've got a lot of tested veterans that
have been through the battles and now are are presumably
comfortable in in Vj's defense.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
How important is it to develop the guys behind them?
Since we've talked about this offseason, how you can't pay
everybody Zach Allen, I so.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
You you you always want to develop him and never
was not never have to you never have to use them.
I mean the defensive lines, you know, used to be
those guys never came off the field. Now they're rotated
in for sure, But you know what what you want,
you want to develop them to war.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
At some point during the game. You can rest your your.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Front line guys and rest them in a way that
you have competent young players replacing them, and then you know,
you that's that's part of the thing. In terms of
the rotation on either side of the ball. But you
want as a defensive I think a defensive coach, you
want to be able to in the last of a
close game, in the last like five and a half
(28:28):
minutes of the game. I want my front line guys
in the game. I want them rested. I don't want them,
you know, if they just have gone on a fifteen
play scoring drive the other offense and I get the
same group back out there.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's there's a lot of there's a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I mean, there's a lot of things that go through
the minds of play callers, and then I think it's
fascinating in terms of I think when people watch like
a nine on seven drill or whatever, they think these
are just like big guys like going at it. There
is so much going on in terms of where this
(29:04):
guy lines up, how is he any stances he lighting?
His stance is the tackle kind of leaning down? If
I'm a three tech hand placement, both feet in the ground.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
There's a lot of thinking and little.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Things that go on in the interior part of play
that I think is really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
If you're really a football fan, absolutely well.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I've seen teams going back to the development that I've
seen teams not developed guys, and it gets cruis late
in the season because injuries you got to play them.
The one thing in the NFL that is a guarantee
is that you're going to have injuries. And so that's why,
more than in the NBA, development is such a big
deal because you're at some point if you're on you know,
(29:48):
we always say this, We always say this every year,
and you know, Jim Schwartz has said this multiple times,
you know, and it's usually in the beginning the season.
He always says, if you're on this team, it's each
man roster or practice squad, you at some point will
have to play, and we, at some point will have
to depend on you to play. And I think with
(30:09):
some coaches that gets lost because you're so worried about
the guys that are playing right now that you don't
want to develop. I've seen it, like when I was
in like when I was in Oakland, every times where
you know, I was at bottom of the roster guy
and they're trying to skip over my reps, like my
reps an individual period, wow, And I'm like, no, like
(30:31):
I need those reps. And luckily I had older guys
that would be like no, like let them get the rep.
And so that's that's things that happen in the league
that will stunt the development of the younger players. But
then all that does is make your coach look bad
when it's time to actually go out there and play.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I have one more question on this and then you know, when
we come back into this side, I want to talk
about the concept of all in what that looks like
for a player. But you're talking about the account of ability.
Portion of it is that you said it takes like
one guy not doing his job for really the entire
defense to look bad and run for example. So is
that accountability something that is internally policed by the players
(31:13):
like you man, you are not in your gap? Or
is that something that the coaches kind of take the ring?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
So it goes both ways. So in my time in Denver,
I was always next to Draymont, usually next to Draymont,
and then when I was in Cleveland, I've been next
to Dalvin Thomlinson who's in Arizona. Now, which do you
guys have a joint practice against?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Good Luck? He's a docky, he's a doggie. So we
have the best offensive line.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I wouldn't say that because Dalvin'sdalvin's good, But I would
say this though, like we would the way it works
when we're in Cleveland. You know, let's just say, let's
say I messed up. I'll turn to Dalvin. I'd be like,
that's on me. I won't let you down again, you
know what I mean, Like like as a vet, like
I will blatantly make I messed up, and I'll tell
(32:00):
you I'll messed up that. Don't worry about that.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
That's on me.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Well, eventually a lot of those that's on me. Eventually
it's like, hey, we're gonna need somebody else in here.
We can't have too many that's on me, you know
what I mean. Like that's in the game. It needs
to be the player who's like, I messed up because
you don't have a run. You have an iPad that
you're looking at after and it only has stills, it
(32:25):
has still shots. You're not watching video of what happens.
So you need some type of accountability so that we
can fix it on the sideline so it doesn't happen again.
So that's where the player's accountability will come up, and
you have to own up to it and then just
move on. And the biggest thing the players dowadate is
(32:46):
they mess up once and it's stuck in their headdress
in the game. Yeah, man, this over eighty players in
a game. Who cares if you got one out of
eighty on it? If you got one wrong out of
eighty on a test, you should be happy. Yeah, you know,
that's what you have got to get over it.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Although it's funny, David, we've we've talked to them before.
As you know, for offensive lineman or cornerbacks. Sometimes you know,
one wrong is the highlight reel that everybody sees on
Sports Center. Right, it's like, hey, that offensive lineman have
a good game or a bad game, Well, for seventy
plays he was great. That one play is the one
that everybody's showing is his quarterback got destroyed.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Yeah, And Shelby's right in terms of I think players
have to be accountable, and I think it's it's it's
the right thing to do for a veteran who screws
up to say, hey that's me, I got it. But
too many that's me get you fired, and too many
that's me from players gets you replaced. So it's kind
(33:45):
of like dropping a pass.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Right. There's more drop passes.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
In the NFL now than I think there used to be,
And maybe part of it is there's a lot more
balls being thrown in the air, so there's more opportunity.
But like you drop the ball and then you come back,
I mean you you are trying to find somewhere to
stick your head in some sand so nobody can see you.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
If you do that too many times, you're not You're
not going to have a job. Same thing putting the
ball on the ground, right, I mean players come over
off the sideline and say, hey, that's my bad. Coaches
are not trying to hear that's my bad. Bill Belichick
didn't care about my ground. Right, keep the ball, you
know Bill Belichick. If you fumbled with Bill Belichick, you
might get cut. And that's the accountability part of it.
(34:34):
Don't let your team down.
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