Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, so I will pay off the tease about
what Dan Campbell said in Quarterback that I had never
heard a coach say before most of the time when
coaches addressing a team.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Now, I think he was addressing just the offense.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
But in the fourth episode they introed the game against
the Packers where the defense, the front seven especially was
dealing with a lot of injuries. I don't know if
you remember that during the course of the season. You've
already obviously seen the series, Dave, but if anybody hasn't
seen it, the front seven for the Detroit Lions was
(00:35):
just decimated. I mean, they were signing guys off off
their couches to come in and play in a football
game because they really just didn't have any other choices.
So Dave Campbell gets up in front of the offense,
the head coach of the Lions, and he says, guys
are basically going to level with you. We're putting this
(00:56):
game on you. We're going to go for it on
fourth down every single time. We're gonna move up and
down the field. But this we need you, guys to
be great. We need the offense to carry this thing
most of the time. With coaches that, and maybe inside
the locker room, inside the meeting rooms, it is different.
(01:17):
Maybe that is something like you said, David, is actually
a little bit more common. But for me as a
fan watching that, I found that wild because you're basically
admitting in front of at least one side of the team.
I don't know if the entire team was there, but
at least one side of the team, we don't have
it on defense. We don't we are not gonna have
it on defense. We're gonna go for a fourth down
every single time we have an opportunity. They went for
(01:38):
the five times a fourth down and four and made
four of them.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But he said, we don't have it on that side
of the ball. It's on you. Well, I think you can.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I would say that that would probably be a typical,
but I have I have heard of it done, and
I think it was smart because he was just acknowledging
what the players already knew. They had so many injuries
on defense. He said, we're signing guys off the street.
And now you know he didn't kick a field goal
with thirty seconds to go on fourth down from the
(02:10):
thirty because he said, you know, if if if we
make it. Then that offense is on the field against
I don't think it's fair. So I thought I thought
he was more you know, challenging his offense in front
of the entire team, like, hey, you guys wear the
(02:32):
hat in this game, right, We're going to stay on
the field, We're going to be aggressive, we're going to
go for it and fourth down and you know what,
you're going to find ways. We're going to find ways
to make plays and win this game. So I liked
what he did because I think he did it the
right way.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
His offense. This is the quote offense, and I can't
read the language part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
We're going to bleeping put everything on your bleeping ass,
that's what he said.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah, perfect, that's right, that's perfect. I'd rather have a
coach be one honest with us and and not sit
there and feed us a bunch of bs and just
tell us we all see it what side of the
people off the street, Hey, we offense, we're gonna need
you to carry us this game. I'm rather one of
coaches tell me the truth and be one hundred percent
(03:18):
honest with the team and then says here and be like,
you know, guys, our defense, you know we're going to
we're going to hold him down. Not with Jim Bob
from from off the corner. No, You're like, you're not.
It's just not realistic, like it's the NFL. You're too
late in the season, you know, you know what I mean.
So that's why I I'm all for if a coach
a tell me, then hey, offense, we're going for it
(03:39):
all because these guys ain't got it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I think you're absolutely right, and it's like the logical
conclusion that we all should get to. But I don't
think a coach would ever say that publicly.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
No, no, no, and you wouldn't expect him to. Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
But but but you know, the cameras were rolling, so
I thought I thought it was I mean, I really
I think as a player, I think Shelby's right. I think,
you know, you want your coach to be one hundred
percent honest, and players they get fired up when their
coach looks at him and says, hey, you know what
putting this stuff on you? I have confidence in you
(04:17):
were going out you know we're going out here and
break off. I mean coaches when they I mean, they
have the complete attention of players, especially in a year
like the Lions had last year, right, I mean they
were well, they lost what two games in seventeen?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Were they fifteen to two? Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yes, they did lose to the Commanders at home and
the defense finally broke down and the offense had a
couple couple of misfires in that game. But I mean
that was that was a great season. Stop didn't think
how far Detroit has come in a fairly short time.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
They were undefeated on the road last year. Eight. No,
that's astounding, that's great for home.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's so crazy for a Detroit team who I would
say five. When Dan Campbell got there after his first year,
they were calling for him to be fired, and they
tried to say he didn't know what he was doing because.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
They were like, oh ten and one or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Remember they were I mean they were terrible.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, But sometimes when you're trying to initiate a culture change,
when you're trying to go out there and change the
way that things have been done, you know it's not
for the week. You're you're trying to reverse some bad habits.
And the Lions, obviously from years past, had a lot
of bad habits. You had a lot of culture problems
where sometimes players from the leftover regime, you know, they're
(05:38):
the second energy out of out out of the building,
and so you want and so it takes time to initial,
you know, to install and to instill your your thinking,
your mindset for the whole team. And then that's why
when you do bring the whole, when you do get there,
that's why you do see a team like Detroit, you
know what I mean. And Dan Campbell tells us, guys, yeah,
(05:59):
we're going for every fourth down, so that they don't
even they noted second guessing. They're going out there being like, hey,
it's on us. Like it's no question they know what's
on them.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We've done running around in the past about Dan Campbell
and going for it and fourth down and all those
kinds of things. I do think there's one thing on this,
and actually have a couple of points I want to
get to in a second, but I do think there's
one thing that's you have to have the right team
to be able to do that, especially on offense, right, Like,
if you're going to challenge your guys, you couldn't go
to a below average offense. And I'm not gonna throw
anym into the bus but a below average offense and say, guys,
(06:30):
this game's on you.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We had a lot of.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Injuries on defense. No, they'd say, we're gonna go for
the We've never been going for a fourth out all season,
but this is this.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Is the game.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You got guess what, We're gonna go for a fourth
down every single You can't do that to every team.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
No, I mean he I mean the Lions were great
on offense, great run of the ball, great scoring, and
they were I think a top five team is scoring
and I mean a lot of offensive categories. So they
clearly were the strength of that team, especially after so
many injuries on defense. So I mean it was a
calculated move and it worked, and I thought I thought
(07:07):
it infused even a little more confidence into that group,
Like hey, I'm just telling you we're going for it
like all night long. I mean, players, even at that level,
they love to hear that, right, they love to hear it.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
All Right, we'll come back.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I got I gotta find out from both of you, guys,
what would be the equivalent of say this conversation on
the defense, Like if the coaches get up there in
front of the defense and say.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Guys, and maybe Shelby, you have some experience with this'd
be a different for so long. Sorry, I couldn't help it.
I want to ask you.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So we're talking about Dan Campbell and how he challenged
the offense. This was on The Quarterback Show on Netflix
where he challenged the offense. I'm gonna put it on
your bleeping ass, he said, I'm gonna make you guys.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You guys in the follal point, we're going for an
a fourth down.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
What would be the equivalent if say a head coach
did the same thing for the defense.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I would say, if it was on the defense, it'd
be like, hey, we gotta score, just like my Bronco
d Man, we got Hey. If offense games and got
it today, it's on us today. We gotta go out
there and score.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You gotta score. We gotta go score.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
We got we gotta score, or we gotta force a
turnover on the other side of the ball, on the
other side of the field, on like our side of
the field. We gotta we have to do something to
make it easy for the offense to score.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Game or that, like going into a game, going into it.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Going into a game like we did it before. It's
like we already know it's gonna be a tough one
for the offense. We gotta we gotta help them out
of a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Hey, whichever whichever side of the ball is struggling, and
every NFL team, every team, no matter what level, will
have this.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
You'll have one.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I mean I shouldn't say everyone, because there will be
some teams that both sides all three phases play pretty
good or what have you. But more times than not,
especially in the NFL, you're gonna have one side that
is just playing better. What you have to do with
those coaches, whether they're defensive coaches or whether it's an
(09:11):
offensive side of the ball, they have to convince their
side of the room, not when the offense in this
case is in the theater listening, but when they're in
their own defensive meeting rooms listen. We can't control what
the offense does. They're gonna work on their stuff, they're
gonna get better. What we have to do is take
care of our side of the ball. And you know what,
(09:33):
let's not worry about what they do. I don't want
to hear any talking about what's going on over here.
We're going to focus on what we do and here's
where we can get better. We've only scored once on
defense in the first like six weeks. Let's focus on
so they get them thinking back on like, okay, what
we're doing. They want guys to wear blinders, not to
(09:53):
look over there and say, man, I mean seriously, you
guys suck this year and we're about tired of it.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Man, I've had it before. We're coach mentioned he's like,
we can only give them fourteen points because I don't
know if we're going to score more than wow, And I.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Was like, he must have played with a defensive minded
head coach.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yes, okay exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I'm gonna say if if if the head coach is
an offensive minded head coach and gets word that a
defensive position coach said, just what Shelby said to the defense,
he better be a really good coach because he's he's
probably gonna be looking for work.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
About He was just like, man, you know, offensive struggle
all season, So for what we're going to have to do,
we gotta hold him on the fourteen. I was just like,
this is the worst speech ever.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I was like, you're you're just pretty much saying, hey,
if they scored forty one this.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Game's over, right, and you can say that if the
head coach is a defensive minded head coach and he was.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
What did you guys say? What was what was the
general reaction to the for the you're not wrong? Be
completely ho It's like you're you know, you're you're not wrong,
but I don't know. I can't believe you just said
that out loud. But you're not wrong. We've been seeing it.
That's what coaches. NFL coaches fight, they fight. They had
that locker room divided.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
They that's when you start to lose the team and
then you know it sooner than later after that happens,
you get your ass fired.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So they don't they don't want that.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It doesn't usually work out when you start, you know,
pitting people against each other. But you know, I always
say losing teams, they don't just lose because of Sunday.
And I think a lot of people don't realize a
lot of teams lose the game before they even get there,
you know. So if it's something it could be the
(11:46):
smallest coaching you know, or with the attitude of the team,
you know, and especially I always say a team that
has just came back and had some tough game where
they were fighting the whole game, came back and won.
It was a three upset they weren't supposed to win.
They usually come out the next week and get their
ass kicked.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So we'll come back.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I have one more question on this, because I want
to know what the mentality is for a defensive player
when when an opposing team is going for it over
and over and over again on fourth down. Is it
insulting or do you actually like that fact because it
gives you an opportunity to get those turnovers to get
the ball back.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So we'll get to that one come back.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Well, about a couple very good running back tandems.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
About the years, Hey, Sean Payton, have one here this fall?
That would be great.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Sean Payton knows something about good running back tandems with
Alvin Kamara and mark Ingram yep, really good JK.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Dubbins and R J. Harvey rookie. If you get anything
close to that, that would be phenomenal. That would be that.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Would change the game because one the biggest thing they
were missing last year was a consistent run game.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
There was this stat I won't get into the weeds
on it, but Warren Sharp tweeted this out this morning
about a running back attempts. Gosh, was it? Hold on,
I don't want to go don't again, don't want to
get to the weeds. Rushing yards over expected per attempt.
So the point of it is Javonte Williams was negative.
(13:12):
He was number forty on this list, so his expected
yards per attempt was negative.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
JK.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Dobbins ended up showing up on this list at number fourteen.
What is what is the title of the list? Rushing
yards over expected per attempt? So whatever you expect from
the running back to be able to do.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
With somebody looking and grading in the film, Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Per attempt per rushing attempt, this is what it is
blocked for. Yeah, we've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I mean, they were not an efficient running game. And
I've said many times I thought, you know, when you
go back and look at every single film there there
were there were yards that were left out there. In
other words, they blocked it well enough up front that
that four yard gain really should have been eleven. And
(14:03):
you say, well, okay, so that's minus seven. But if
you have you know, eight of similar runs in a game,
well you've left seventy some on yards out there, so
I think they'll be better. I mean Dobbins, Dobbins is
a powerful back. He's explosive as well. His thing is
just staying healthy like everybody else in the league. And
(14:24):
I think Broncos fans are gonna really like RJ. Harvey.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
It's just a matter of when he shows the head guy.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I'm ready, I'm good in blitz pickup, or at least
I'm adequate.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I'm a good enough receiver. I'm ready to go.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
I was gonna say that it just really all depends
on how long it takes him to get and understand
the processings of the offense, you know what I mean,
like like, like, like Dave said, with the pass protection,
you know, picking up blitze blitz pick up, you know
what I mean That that's really going to be the
determining factor of how strong this Denver run game is.
(15:02):
It's basics off how fast he gets it. But then
while we have that transition where he's trying to get it,
you know, that's the man gotta come. You have other
guys that can help while the rookie is figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They just actually have to step up. You think estimate
is good to be here. Huh. I think you know
you guys, it's a make or breakyear for him. I mean,
Sean said, don't count. He told us not to count yet.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Oh man, but everyone knows the count. But I hate
when people say don't count because it's just a logistical
thing to do, because we got to figure out and
you know everyone does it. And but always say, like
you got to figure out how you know if a
team only keeps four four running backs or whatever, or
even say three running backs and roster, right, you're gonna
(15:46):
have more than three? Well yeah, but okay, let's say four.
All right, let's say you keep four running backs on roster. Well,
the draft picks are going to be here. So that's
why it's like you can't help but count. It's it's
human nature.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
You gotta figure Hey, am I lied man? Or am
I not man in? Or am I fighting to be in?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I better? The players count too, don't they?
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Dave? Yes, they do. In Cleveland, they're going to keep
ten maybe eleven. Where guys get in trouble counting? Is
you count during training camp? You see how many.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Reps a certain guy gets in a certain drill, who
goes with the second group on Tuesday at receiver?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Was I in the second group? Okay?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Then am I going to be in the second group
on Thursday? But where guys in the NFL works like this,
Where guys really get in trouble is when they're counting
bodies in the room and one of the guys they
were fighting for a position gets cut. It's late in
camp and you're thinking, ah, I'm mate, And then when
(16:53):
the final cutdown date goes and the thirty one other
teams cut guys, then all of a sudden you get
the calls say hey, would come in and bring your playbook?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
I think, what one thing that not just the NFL athletes,
that athletes in general need to work on. And I
always tell people that you're not in competition with anybody else.
The only competition you have is with yourself, That's right.
And the minute you try to compete with somebody else
is the minute you're gonna start making mistakes, the minute
that you're going to start getting lapped in the competition.
You just have to worry about yourself. You can't sit
(17:24):
there and count numbers. You can't sit there and be like, oh,
like I'm fighting with this guy for the spot. The
only thing that you can do is control you. And
that's the best advice I can give any young athletes
worry about you. Stone don't sit there and keep watching
like they said, Oh, he's getting all these reps.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
He's getting all.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
These All you can do is go in there and
just play your game, because if you don't, that's how
you end up at home.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
What I think, to your point, to Dave's point, you
know the count, right, you know, four running backs, whatever
position grew, maybe your wide receiver, six wide receivers, f
you know that type of thing. But you also know
who the top guy to So in this case, you
know JK. Dobbins, Like you're in the running back room,
you know JK. Dobbins. Well, Argie Harvey was just drafting
the second round. Those are kind of your top two guys.
(18:08):
And I think if you're running back three or four,
and you don't know if you're three or four, but
if you're running back three or four, you can't possibly
feel great about that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I'm if I'm anybody other than Dobbins and Harvey, and
I'm a running back, including Jaliel who's had some moments,
I'm I'm getting to know the special teams coach in
a big, big way. Listen, I'll return it, or I'll
let me try. Let me try, punt gunner coach, let
(18:38):
me put me at R two on kickoff for you
have to, you don't have to, but you'd be better
off making a huge impact on Special teams to where
now you have when those coaches sit around and they
do in that room and they have final cutdown and everybody,
you know, sometimes they are strong arguments about hey, this
is why I believe in this guy, this is why
(18:59):
I think we should keep this guy. Well, if you
have two of those guys, including the special teams coach
and your position coach, saying we're better off with this
guy in the fifty three, well, then it stands the
reason your chance is of making the squad or better.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I couldn't have said it any better. The more you
can do, especially if you're not a starter, and if
you're not a starter, you should be at every Special
Teams meeting. You should be over there volunteering. I remember
when I was in Oakland and I was like third
or fourth from the death chart, and I'm just like, yo,
is there any more special teams you can put me
on because obviously as a D lineman the one thing
(19:36):
they don't put D linman on is punt for some reason,
kickoff coverage, well yeah, or kickoff coverage. But like I'm like,
back then, they used to have the wedge, So when
I was in Oaklan, I'm like, well, I'll tide the wedge,
you know what I mean. You know, I'll do whatever
it tasts so I can get on this fifty three.
Because what people don't get it's not about and it's
what bothers me the most about it. A lot of
(19:56):
young players. Special teams players get paid the same as everybody.
Those checks clear just like everybody else's, dude, So it
doesn't matter. Just because you're not the starter doesn't mean
I'm just gonna wait till I'm the starter. No. The
way you stay on the fifty three, the way you
stay relevant in these coaches eyes, is playing special teams
(20:19):
until your time is called, until the injury happens, or
until just they're like, all right, we just want to give.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
This guy a shot.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
But other than that, that's your way of staying in
the building until your time does get called, because you
can't help if you're on the street, so you gotta
do something to stick. And now this culture nowadays, I'm
just I'm just the I play defense. I want to
be the starter of this Hey, that stuff's dead. You
gotta go out there and just make it the week three,
make it the week one, make it the week make
(20:47):
it to the season, and it hopes, hopefully you'll get
a chance later on. But special teams is your way
to make the team. And people just you know, no
one wants to hear it anymore. Nobody wants to be
a special teams player or you and be considered a
special teams player. But that's your way you stay relevant
in this league until the day comes that you can
go out there and play.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
We always speaking of running backs.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
This is coming out moments ago, I guess, and I
hadn't seen the rumors reports about it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
But his agent, Najie Harris, his agent who's now with Chargers.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Was involved in a Fourth of July event where a
fireworks mishap resulted in injuries to several attendees. Nause sustained
superficial eye injury during the incident, but is fully expected
to be ready for the upcoming NFL season.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, a little PSA out there for he.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
And people always wonder I don't mess with fireworkers. I
don't work like my family is all about going to
go watch them. I'm like, I'll never set them off.
I really don't want my kids setting them off because
I had a cousin I lost his finger over over
at firework. And obviously we all know about JPP. But
once again, it is it worth it? Here's the question.
You hope he's gonna be okay? I agree with what
(21:55):
Shelby said. My question is.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Do you see any neurosurgeons light off fire fireworks?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Absolutely not No, No, there's no reason. Yes, I mean
e R doctors fireworks. No. I just again, you talked
about jp P.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
We've we've seen pretty examples, and I'm not gonna sit
here and try to lecture Naji Harris. He knew whatever
he wants and probably maybe for him, he was just
at the party and this was happening, and then mishappened
and he ended up unfortunately. And I guess luckily it's
only a superficial eye injury. But can you imagine ending
your career because you can't see out of one eye
or something like that? And come on, man, Well, the Wars.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
File is gonna make a joke like, well, he runs
like he has one eye. Anyway, I didn't, I just
said it out loud. But no, that's the that's the
worst part about it, though. You just really don't want
someone in the career to be over over something silly
as a fireworks.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yes, you know what I mean. We will worked so
hard to get to this point.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Imagine the guilt and the empty feeling you would feel
knowing that you lost your dream over a firework.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, hopefully Nagier is going to be okay. Yeah, sounds
like he's going to be okay, So that's good news.
I do want to pay off the teas from earlier
about the fourth down. I just be kind of curious
because David and I go back and forth. I happen
to love this direction that coaching aggressiveness going forward and
fourth down using analytics to dictate some of these decisions.
(23:32):
I'd love to know, just for a moment, from a
defensive perspective, do you get excited about playing teams that
are have a proclivity to do something like that, or
do you go the other side of that and say
it's a little annoying. It's insulting.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
It's a low annoying.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
I definitely say it's a litt annoying because the idea
is like, all right, we worked, we got these three
players were out. But it's actually kind of exciting because
teams will if you know, let's say your offense is
struggling like ours ours did last year, I would invite
you to go forward and fourth down because you're going
to give us feel position when we stop you. So
that's the thing behind it, because especially a team like
the Lions, they were doing fourth downs that they're thirty,
(24:05):
they're forty, Like it didn't really matter where they were.
So if you could get that stop and you make
it that your offense somebody has to go thirty hours
to score and you're automatically in field goal position.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Hey, I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
But like, just as a defensive player, and my offense
kept going forward on fourth down, you're telling me that
you know we sucked to because to be honest, that
we suck and you don't believe in us.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
I can be your mindset, but also your mindset has
to be like, all right, we didn't get it, but
our defense isn't going to give anything up either. But
that message that he's sending, it's more like, I get
it being aggressive, but you can be smart too.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
On top of that.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Okay, yeah, you're right, there's a lot more psychology into it.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
You made the comment that you like it in general terms,
and I like the analytics without being specific. I like
the fourth down, okay, but you it it's the context
of when the call is made.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
What analytics are you talking about? You just you just
hate fun. I just know.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
I'm just trying to get you to define exactly what
you just said.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
They're the Okay, so you tend to be.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
No, I'm just worried about what you said.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Don't worry about me.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I like I like the aggressive nature of it. I
like the message.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Okay, I do too, go ahead. I like the aggressive
nature of whatever it is. Yes, fourth down? Yes, Okay,
I did too. I said that earlier. Okay, I like
they went forth four out of five times.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I I actually don't even mind doing it on negative
negative side of the field either.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Honestly, what what part of the game?
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Where?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Oh your mic on? Where's the limit at?
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Like?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Where?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Where is it? Where's where's it like, how about this
first series.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Of the game, fourth and three on the minus thirty seven?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
If I have lines, I'm going for it. First quarter?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Sure, okay, Well then you can set yourself up for
failure the rest of the game. Well that's the good Well,
that's the good news. Guaranteed contracts of head coaches. You're
going to get his ass fired. He's going to get paid.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
But I believe it my defense to hold them to
three points so you.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Don't get up out of it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Philosophy on fourth down, I think I.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Think it's an instinct based on how the game has
played out. I mean, i've you know again, high school
really different than the NFL. I remember in a playoff
game not long ago, playing a really good team at home,
and it was it was a year that we eventually
went on to win.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The state championship.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
We're tied in that game in the fourth quarter at
twenty eight, and we had no shot of stopping the
other team.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And we had a good defense. It was just one
of those games.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
It's fourth and between two and three on our twenty
Evan on your twenties, ooh, went for it, because I
did you get it?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Got it? Okay?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
But but I would have done that in the first
part of the game, because you know, if you don't
get it, you you were the boo with the clown hat.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I mean, what are we doing.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You're going fourth and three and you're twenty seven in
the second quarter of a tie game.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
How about doing this? How about your punt the ball?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Well we talk about going forward and everything, but like,
let's not forget that the Lions literally lost a playoff game.
I think was the go Yes, they refused and I was.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Who the Broncos signed. That is the one.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I've dropped that pass, but that's what you that's the
chance to take it. Could be a great pass. Everything,
and a game.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Campbell, I think, really, if I could still play, which
I can't, I want to play for him.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
But that game, I think he screwed this thing up.
Small fault, small fault. I still like the guy. I mean,
I love that. I loved it, like that he said,
I would.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Love to play for a guy at that because you
know that guy will run through a wall for you. Yeah,
like that guy his player. They should use you. Hey,
they could have used you last year too. Yeah, I'll
see it that. Yeah, they were picking guys off the
street and was right.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Here under contract playing for Cleveland at the time. That
wasn't fair. I'm being a little hyperbolic, but it's it's fair.
First quarter minus thirty seven. I mean, yeah, that doesn't
it probably doesn't make a lot of sense. But I
guess as a tone setting idea and again situations what
it is.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And I don't know who you're playing. You're playing the Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Like we watched on Quarterback Show where Joe Burrow was
talking about it was like week two, I think they
were playing the Chiefs and they were saying, you play different,
you just have to, and they were going for it.
They were being uber aggressive even earlier in the game,
not like earlierly, but earlier in the game. They had
a fourth goal and he said, normally we're kicking a
field goal there, we have to go for it here.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yep, we know who's on the other side of this thing.
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I mean, that does make sense because you know that
the other guy playing quarterback is a wizard and you're
not gonna you know, I don't care how good your
defense is, more than likely you're not keeping that team
to ten to thirteen points.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
It's like the Eagles from last year. You know, it
was a you're kind of worried about the idea of like,
if they get the ball back, they have a two
headed monster and Jander Hurts and Saquan and they have
a good old line and they're in four down territory
no matter where they are. So can we stop them
in four plays and get the ball back? That's the
decisions you have to make.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I guess I just I tend to look at it,
and again, there's just this mindset flip a little bit.
You're telling your team, we think we can get it.
I see where you're coming from, Shelle, and you're saying
that as a defense, there's a maybe a thing you
can read into it of well, they don't believe in us.
That's why they keep going forward and first on fourth down.
Like see your own own team is going forward and
(29:58):
fourth down. It's because they I don't think the defense
can get the stops. I think it's I think it
also be ready the other way. It's like, hey, man,
if we don't get it, defense, get out there and
get this stop holding the three points, hold him to this?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (30:10):
I can see what you're saying, Like you can look
at it from both ways? Who do have you have
a valid argument about that? That he that Dave that
Line'm not thinking, but just as a guy who's been
on that side and watch our team go forward on
fourth down, it's like, what the hell are you thinking?
We have this?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
We got this.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I mean, the main thing with Shelby's trying to say
is because I was able to read through that he
has no idea what you were talking about either. He's
just a polite gentleman. He answered in a very generic ways,
as I have tried to do so many times. So
I don't know now after this segment whether you actually
would go for it on from the minus thirty seven
(30:48):
or you'd punt it because you want to send a
message to the defense. You don't want them to be
pissed or but hurt, and so we'll punt it. No, wait,
don't pun it. Let's go for it. So I'm you know,
I end this particular segment and this hour in a
rather confused state.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I think you nailed it perfectly.
All right, so I will pay off the tease about
what Dan Campbell said in Quarterback that I had never
heard a coach say before most of the time when
coaches addressing a team.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Now, I think he was addressing just the offense.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
But in the fourth episode they introed the game against
the Packers where the defense, the front seven especially was
dealing with a lot of injuries. I don't know if
you remember that during the course of the season. You've
already obviously seen the series, Dave, but if anybody hasn't
seen it, the front seven for the Detroit Lions was
(00:35):
just decimated. I mean, they were signing guys off off
their couches to come in and play in a football
game because they really just didn't have any other choices.
So Dave Campbell gets up in front of the offense,
the head coach of the Lions, and he says, guys
are basically going to level with you. We're putting this
(00:56):
game on you. We're going to go for it on
fourth down every single time. We're gonna move up and
down the field. But this we need you, guys to
be great. We need the offense to carry this thing
most of the time. With coaches that, and maybe inside
the locker room, inside the meeting rooms, it is different.
(01:17):
Maybe that is something like you said, David, is actually
a little bit more common. But for me as a
fan watching that, I found that wild because you're basically
admitting in front of at least one side of the team.
I don't know if the entire team was there, but
at least one side of the team, we don't have
it on defense. We don't we are not gonna have
it on defense. We're gonna go for a fourth down
every single time we have an opportunity. They went for
(01:38):
the five times a fourth down and four and made
four of them.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But he said, we don't have it on that side
of the ball. It's on you. Well, I think you can.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I would say that that would probably be a typical,
but I have I have heard of it done, and
I think it was smart because he was just acknowledging
what the players already knew. They had so many injuries
on defense. He said, we're signing guys off the street.
And now you know he didn't kick a field goal
with thirty seconds to go on fourth down from the
(02:10):
thirty because he said, you know, if if if we
make it. Then that offense is on the field against
I don't think it's fair. So I thought I thought
he was more you know, challenging his offense in front
of the entire team, like, hey, you guys wear the
(02:32):
hat in this game, right, We're going to stay on
the field, We're going to be aggressive, we're going to
go for it and fourth down and you know what,
you're going to find ways. We're going to find ways
to make plays and win this game. So I liked
what he did because I think he did it the
right way.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
His offense. This is the quote offense, and I can't
read the language part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
We're going to bleeping put everything on your bleeping ass,
that's what he said.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah, perfect, that's right, that's perfect. I'd rather have a
coach be one honest with us and and not sit
there and feed us a bunch of bs and just
tell us we all see it what side of the
people off the street, Hey, we offense, we're gonna need
you to carry us this game. I'm rather one of
coaches tell me the truth and be one hundred percent
(03:18):
honest with the team and then says here and be like,
you know, guys, our defense, you know we're going to
we're going to hold him down. Not with Jim Bob
from from off the corner. No, You're like, you're not.
It's just not realistic, like it's the NFL. You're too
late in the season, you know, you know what I mean.
So that's why I I'm all for if a coach
a tell me, then hey, offense, we're going for it
(03:39):
all because these guys ain't got it.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I think you're absolutely right, and it's like the logical
conclusion that we all should get to. But I don't
think a coach would ever say that publicly.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
No, no, no, and you wouldn't expect him to. Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
But but but you know, the cameras were rolling, so
I thought I thought it was I mean, I really
I think as a player, I think Shelby's right. I think,
you know, you want your coach to be one hundred
percent honest, and players they get fired up when their
coach looks at him and says, hey, you know what
putting this stuff on you? I have confidence in you
(04:17):
were going out you know we're going out here and
break off. I mean coaches when they I mean, they
have the complete attention of players, especially in a year
like the Lions had last year, right, I mean they
were well, they lost what two games in seventeen?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Were they fifteen to two? Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yes, they did lose to the Commanders at home and
the defense finally broke down and the offense had a
couple couple of misfires in that game. But I mean
that was that was a great season. Stop didn't think
how far Detroit has come in a fairly short time.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
They were undefeated on the road last year. Eight. No,
that's astounding, that's great for home.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's so crazy for a Detroit team who I would
say five. When Dan Campbell got there after his first year,
they were calling for him to be fired, and they
tried to say he didn't know what he was doing because.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
They were like, oh ten and one or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Remember they were I mean they were terrible.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, But sometimes when you're trying to initiate a culture change,
when you're trying to go out there and change the
way that things have been done, you know it's not
for the week. You're you're trying to reverse some bad habits.
And the Lions, obviously from years past, had a lot
of bad habits. You had a lot of culture problems
where sometimes players from the leftover regime, you know, they're
(05:38):
the second energy out of out out of the building,
and so you want and so it takes time to initial,
you know, to install and to instill your your thinking,
your mindset for the whole team. And then that's why
when you do bring the whole, when you do get there,
that's why you do see a team like Detroit, you
know what I mean. And Dan Campbell tells us, guys, yeah,
(05:59):
we're going for every fourth down, so that they don't
even they noted second guessing. They're going out there being like, hey,
it's on us. Like it's no question they know what's
on them.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We've done running around in the past about Dan Campbell
and going for it and fourth down and all those
kinds of things. I do think there's one thing on this,
and actually have a couple of points I want to
get to in a second, but I do think there's
one thing that's you have to have the right team
to be able to do that, especially on offense, right, Like,
if you're going to challenge your guys, you couldn't go
to a below average offense. And I'm not gonna throw
anym into the bus but a below average offense and say, guys,
(06:30):
this game's on you.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We had a lot of.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Injuries on defense. No, they'd say, we're gonna go for
the We've never been going for a fourth out all season,
but this is this.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Is the game.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You got guess what, We're gonna go for a fourth
down every single You can't do that to every team.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
No, I mean he I mean the Lions were great
on offense, great run of the ball, great scoring, and
they were I think a top five team is scoring
and I mean a lot of offensive categories. So they
clearly were the strength of that team, especially after so
many injuries on defense. So I mean it was a
calculated move and it worked, and I thought I thought
(07:07):
it infused even a little more confidence into that group,
Like hey, I'm just telling you we're going for it
like all night long. I mean, players, even at that level,
they love to hear that, right, they love to hear it.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
All Right, we'll come back.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I got I gotta find out from both of you, guys,
what would be the equivalent of say this conversation on
the defense, Like if the coaches get up there in
front of the defense and say.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Guys, and maybe Shelby, you have some experience with this'd
be a different for so long. Sorry, I couldn't help it.
I want to ask you.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So we're talking about Dan Campbell and how he challenged
the offense. This was on The Quarterback Show on Netflix
where he challenged the offense. I'm gonna put it on
your bleeping ass, he said, I'm gonna make you guys.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You guys in the follal point, we're going for an
a fourth down.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
What would be the equivalent if say a head coach
did the same thing for the defense.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I would say, if it was on the defense, it'd
be like, hey, we gotta score, just like my Bronco
d Man, we got Hey. If offense games and got
it today, it's on us today. We gotta go out
there and score.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You gotta score. We gotta go score.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
We got we gotta score, or we gotta force a
turnover on the other side of the ball, on the
other side of the field, on like our side of
the field. We gotta we have to do something to
make it easy for the offense to score.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Game or that, like going into a game, going into it.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Going into a game like we did it before. It's
like we already know it's gonna be a tough one
for the offense. We gotta we gotta help them out
of a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Hey, whichever whichever side of the ball is struggling, and
every NFL team, every team, no matter what level, will
have this.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
You'll have one.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I mean I shouldn't say everyone, because there will be
some teams that both sides all three phases play pretty
good or what have you. But more times than not,
especially in the NFL, you're gonna have one side that
is just playing better. What you have to do with
those coaches, whether they're defensive coaches or whether it's an
(09:11):
offensive side of the ball, they have to convince their
side of the room, not when the offense in this
case is in the theater listening, but when they're in
their own defensive meeting rooms listen. We can't control what
the offense does. They're gonna work on their stuff, they're
gonna get better. What we have to do is take
care of our side of the ball. And you know what,
(09:33):
let's not worry about what they do. I don't want
to hear any talking about what's going on over here.
We're going to focus on what we do and here's
where we can get better. We've only scored once on
defense in the first like six weeks. Let's focus on
so they get them thinking back on like, okay, what
we're doing. They want guys to wear blinders, not to
(09:53):
look over there and say, man, I mean seriously, you
guys suck this year and we're about tired of it.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Man, I've had it before. We're coach mentioned he's like,
we can only give them fourteen points because I don't
know if we're going to score more than wow, And I.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Was like, he must have played with a defensive minded
head coach.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yes, okay exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I'm gonna say if if if the head coach is
an offensive minded head coach and gets word that a
defensive position coach said, just what Shelby said to the defense,
he better be a really good coach because he's he's
probably gonna be looking for work.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
About He was just like, man, you know, offensive struggle
all season, So for what we're going to have to do,
we gotta hold him on the fourteen. I was just like,
this is the worst speech ever.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I was like, you're you're just pretty much saying, hey,
if they scored forty one this.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Game's over, right, and you can say that if the
head coach is a defensive minded head coach and he was.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
What did you guys say? What was what was the
general reaction to the for the you're not wrong? Be
completely ho It's like you're you know, you're you're not wrong,
but I don't know. I can't believe you just said
that out loud. But you're not wrong. We've been seeing it.
That's what coaches. NFL coaches fight, they fight. They had
that locker room divided.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
They that's when you start to lose the team and
then you know it sooner than later after that happens,
you get your ass fired.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So they don't they don't want that.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
It doesn't usually work out when you start, you know,
pitting people against each other. But you know, I always
say losing teams, they don't just lose because of Sunday.
And I think a lot of people don't realize a
lot of teams lose the game before they even get there,
you know. So if it's something it could be the
(11:46):
smallest coaching you know, or with the attitude of the team,
you know, and especially I always say a team that
has just came back and had some tough game where
they were fighting the whole game, came back and won.
It was a three upset they weren't supposed to win.
They usually come out the next week and get their
ass kicked.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So we'll come back.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I have one more question on this, because I want
to know what the mentality is for a defensive player
when when an opposing team is going for it over
and over and over again on fourth down. Is it
insulting or do you actually like that fact because it
gives you an opportunity to get those turnovers to get
the ball back.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So we'll get to that one come back.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Well, about a couple very good running back tandems.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
About the years, Hey, Sean Payton, have one here this fall?
That would be great.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Sean Payton knows something about good running back tandems with
Alvin Kamara and mark Ingram yep, really good JK.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Dubbins and R J. Harvey rookie. If you get anything
close to that, that would be phenomenal. That would be that.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Would change the game because one the biggest thing they
were missing last year was a consistent run game.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
There was this stat I won't get into the weeds
on it, but Warren Sharp tweeted this out this morning
about a running back attempts. Gosh, was it? Hold on,
I don't want to go don't again, don't want to
get to the weeds. Rushing yards over expected per attempt.
So the point of it is Javonte Williams was negative.
(13:12):
He was number forty on this list, so his expected
yards per attempt was negative.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
JK.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Dobbins ended up showing up on this list at number fourteen.
What is what is the title of the list? Rushing
yards over expected per attempt? So whatever you expect from
the running back to be able to do.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
With somebody looking and grading in the film, Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Per attempt per rushing attempt, this is what it is
blocked for. Yeah, we've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I mean, they were not an efficient running game. And
I've said many times I thought, you know, when you
go back and look at every single film there there
were there were yards that were left out there. In
other words, they blocked it well enough up front that
that four yard gain really should have been eleven. And
(14:03):
you say, well, okay, so that's minus seven. But if
you have you know, eight of similar runs in a game,
well you've left seventy some on yards out there, so
I think they'll be better. I mean Dobbins, Dobbins is
a powerful back. He's explosive as well. His thing is
just staying healthy like everybody else in the league. And
(14:24):
I think Broncos fans are gonna really like RJ. Harvey.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
It's just a matter of when he shows the head guy.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I'm ready, I'm good in blitz pickup, or at least
I'm adequate.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I'm a good enough receiver. I'm ready to go.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
I was gonna say that it just really all depends
on how long it takes him to get and understand
the processings of the offense, you know what I mean,
like like, like, like Dave said, with the pass protection,
you know, picking up blitze blitz pick up, you know
what I mean That that's really going to be the
determining factor of how strong this Denver run game is.
(15:02):
It's basics off how fast he gets it. But then
while we have that transition where he's trying to get it,
you know, that's the man gotta come. You have other
guys that can help while the rookie is figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
They just actually have to step up. You think estimate
is good to be here. Huh. I think you know
you guys, it's a make or breakyear for him. I mean,
Sean said, don't count. He told us not to count yet.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Oh man, but everyone knows the count. But I hate
when people say don't count because it's just a logistical
thing to do, because we got to figure out and
you know everyone does it. And but always say, like
you got to figure out how you know if a
team only keeps four four running backs or whatever, or
even say three running backs and roster, right, you're gonna
(15:46):
have more than three? Well yeah, but okay, let's say four.
All right, let's say you keep four running backs on roster. Well,
the draft picks are going to be here. So that's
why it's like you can't help but count. It's it's
human nature.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
You gotta figure Hey, am I lied man? Or am
I not man in? Or am I fighting to be in?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I better? The players count too, don't they?
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Dave? Yes, they do. In Cleveland, they're going to keep
ten maybe eleven. Where guys get in trouble counting? Is
you count during training camp? You see how many.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Reps a certain guy gets in a certain drill, who
goes with the second group on Tuesday at receiver?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Was I in the second group? Okay?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Then am I going to be in the second group
on Thursday? But where guys in the NFL works like this,
Where guys really get in trouble is when they're counting
bodies in the room and one of the guys they
were fighting for a position gets cut. It's late in
camp and you're thinking, ah, I'm mate, And then when
(16:53):
the final cutdown date goes and the thirty one other
teams cut guys, then all of a sudden you get
the calls say hey, would come in and bring your playbook?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
I think, what one thing that not just the NFL athletes,
that athletes in general need to work on. And I
always tell people that you're not in competition with anybody else.
The only competition you have is with yourself, That's right.
And the minute you try to compete with somebody else
is the minute you're gonna start making mistakes, the minute
that you're going to start getting lapped in the competition.
You just have to worry about yourself. You can't sit
(17:24):
there and count numbers. You can't sit there and be like, oh,
like I'm fighting with this guy for the spot. The
only thing that you can do is control you. And
that's the best advice I can give any young athletes
worry about you. Stone don't sit there and keep watching
like they said, Oh, he's getting all these reps.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
He's getting all.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
These All you can do is go in there and
just play your game, because if you don't, that's how
you end up at home.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
What I think, to your point, to Dave's point, you
know the count, right, you know, four running backs, whatever
position grew, maybe your wide receiver, six wide receivers, f
you know that type of thing. But you also know
who the top guy to So in this case, you
know JK. Dobbins, Like you're in the running back room,
you know JK. Dobbins. Well, Argie Harvey was just drafting
the second round. Those are kind of your top two guys.
(18:08):
And I think if you're running back three or four,
and you don't know if you're three or four, but
if you're running back three or four, you can't possibly
feel great about that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I'm if I'm anybody other than Dobbins and Harvey, and
I'm a running back, including Jaliel who's had some moments,
I'm I'm getting to know the special teams coach in
a big, big way. Listen, I'll return it, or I'll
let me try. Let me try, punt gunner coach, let
(18:38):
me put me at R two on kickoff for you
have to, you don't have to, but you'd be better
off making a huge impact on Special teams to where
now you have when those coaches sit around and they
do in that room and they have final cutdown and everybody,
you know, sometimes they are strong arguments about hey, this
is why I believe in this guy, this is why
(18:59):
I think we should keep this guy. Well, if you
have two of those guys, including the special teams coach
and your position coach, saying we're better off with this
guy in the fifty three, well, then it stands the
reason your chance is of making the squad or better.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I couldn't have said it any better. The more you
can do, especially if you're not a starter, and if
you're not a starter, you should be at every Special
Teams meeting. You should be over there volunteering. I remember
when I was in Oakland and I was like third
or fourth from the death chart, and I'm just like, yo,
is there any more special teams you can put me
on because obviously as a D lineman the one thing
(19:36):
they don't put D linman on is punt for some reason,
kickoff coverage, well yeah, or kickoff coverage. But like I'm like,
back then, they used to have the wedge, So when
I was in Oaklan, I'm like, well, I'll tide the wedge,
you know what I mean. You know, I'll do whatever
it tasts so I can get on this fifty three.
Because what people don't get it's not about and it's
what bothers me the most about it. A lot of
(19:56):
young players. Special teams players get paid the same as everybody.
Those checks clear just like everybody else's, dude, So it
doesn't matter. Just because you're not the starter doesn't mean
I'm just gonna wait till I'm the starter. No. The
way you stay on the fifty three, the way you
stay relevant in these coaches eyes, is playing special teams
(20:19):
until your time is called, until the injury happens, or
until just they're like, all right, we just want to give.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
This guy a shot.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
But other than that, that's your way of staying in
the building until your time does get called, because you
can't help if you're on the street, so you gotta
do something to stick. And now this culture nowadays, I'm
just I'm just the I play defense. I want to
be the starter of this Hey, that stuff's dead. You
gotta go out there and just make it the week three,
make it the week one, make it the week make
(20:47):
it to the season, and it hopes, hopefully you'll get
a chance later on. But special teams is your way
to make the team. And people just you know, no
one wants to hear it anymore. Nobody wants to be
a special teams player or you and be considered a
special teams player. But that's your way you stay relevant
in this league until the day comes that you can
go out there and play.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
We always speaking of running backs.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
This is coming out moments ago, I guess, and I
hadn't seen the rumors reports about it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
But his agent, Najie Harris, his agent who's now with Chargers.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Was involved in a Fourth of July event where a
fireworks mishap resulted in injuries to several attendees. Nause sustained
superficial eye injury during the incident, but is fully expected
to be ready for the upcoming NFL season.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, a little PSA out there for he.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
And people always wonder I don't mess with fireworkers. I
don't work like my family is all about going to
go watch them. I'm like, I'll never set them off.
I really don't want my kids setting them off because
I had a cousin I lost his finger over over
at firework. And obviously we all know about JPP. But
once again, it is it worth it? Here's the question.
You hope he's gonna be okay? I agree with what
(21:55):
Shelby said. My question is.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Do you see any neurosurgeons light off fire fireworks?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Absolutely not No, No, there's no reason. Yes, I mean
e R doctors fireworks. No. I just again, you talked
about jp P.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
We've we've seen pretty examples, and I'm not gonna sit
here and try to lecture Naji Harris. He knew whatever
he wants and probably maybe for him, he was just
at the party and this was happening, and then mishappened
and he ended up unfortunately. And I guess luckily it's
only a superficial eye injury. But can you imagine ending
your career because you can't see out of one eye
or something like that? And come on, man, Well, the Wars.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
File is gonna make a joke like, well, he runs
like he has one eye. Anyway, I didn't, I just
said it out loud. But no, that's the that's the
worst part about it, though. You just really don't want
someone in the career to be over over something silly
as a fireworks.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yes, you know what I mean. We will worked so
hard to get to this point.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Imagine the guilt and the empty feeling you would feel
knowing that you lost your dream over a firework.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, hopefully Nagier is going to be okay. Yeah, sounds
like he's going to be okay, So that's good news.
I do want to pay off the teas from earlier
about the fourth down. I just be kind of curious
because David and I go back and forth. I happen
to love this direction that coaching aggressiveness going forward and
fourth down using analytics to dictate some of these decisions.
(23:32):
I'd love to know, just for a moment, from a
defensive perspective, do you get excited about playing teams that
are have a proclivity to do something like that, or
do you go the other side of that and say
it's a little annoying. It's insulting.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
It's a low annoying.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
I definitely say it's a litt annoying because the idea
is like, all right, we worked, we got these three
players were out. But it's actually kind of exciting because
teams will if you know, let's say your offense is
struggling like ours ours did last year, I would invite
you to go forward and fourth down because you're going
to give us feel position when we stop you. So
that's the thing behind it, because especially a team like
the Lions, they were doing fourth downs that they're thirty,
(24:05):
they're forty, Like it didn't really matter where they were.
So if you could get that stop and you make
it that your offense somebody has to go thirty hours
to score and you're automatically in field goal position.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Hey, I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
But like, just as a defensive player, and my offense
kept going forward on fourth down, you're telling me that
you know we sucked to because to be honest, that
we suck and you don't believe in us.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
I can be your mindset, but also your mindset has
to be like, all right, we didn't get it, but
our defense isn't going to give anything up either. But
that message that he's sending, it's more like, I get
it being aggressive, but you can be smart too.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
On top of that.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Okay, yeah, you're right, there's a lot more psychology into it.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
You made the comment that you like it in general terms,
and I like the analytics without being specific. I like
the fourth down, okay, but you it it's the context
of when the call is made.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
What analytics are you talking about? You just you just
hate fun. I just know.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
I'm just trying to get you to define exactly what
you just said.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
They're the Okay, so you tend to be.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
No, I'm just worried about what you said.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Don't worry about me.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I like I like the aggressive nature of it. I
like the message.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Okay, I do too, go ahead. I like the aggressive
nature of whatever it is. Yes, fourth down? Yes, Okay,
I did too. I said that earlier. Okay, I like
they went forth four out of five times.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I I actually don't even mind doing it on negative
negative side of the field either.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Honestly, what what part of the game?
Speaker 4 (25:46):
Where?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Oh your mic on? Where's the limit at?
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Like?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Where?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Where is it? Where's where's it like, how about this
first series.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Of the game, fourth and three on the minus thirty seven?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
If I have lines, I'm going for it. First quarter?
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Sure, okay, Well then you can set yourself up for
failure the rest of the game. Well that's the good Well,
that's the good news. Guaranteed contracts of head coaches. You're
going to get his ass fired. He's going to get paid.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
But I believe it my defense to hold them to
three points so you.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Don't get up out of it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Philosophy on fourth down, I think I.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Think it's an instinct based on how the game has
played out. I mean, i've you know again, high school
really different than the NFL. I remember in a playoff
game not long ago, playing a really good team at home,
and it was it was a year that we eventually
went on to win.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The state championship.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
We're tied in that game in the fourth quarter at
twenty eight, and we had no shot of stopping the
other team.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
And we had a good defense. It was just one
of those games.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
It's fourth and between two and three on our twenty
Evan on your twenties, ooh, went for it, because I
did you get it?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Got it? Okay?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
But but I would have done that in the first
part of the game, because you know, if you don't
get it, you you were the boo with the clown hat.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
I mean, what are we doing.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You're going fourth and three and you're twenty seven in
the second quarter of a tie game.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
How about doing this? How about your punt the ball?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Well we talk about going forward and everything, but like,
let's not forget that the Lions literally lost a playoff game.
I think was the go Yes, they refused and I was.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Who the Broncos signed. That is the one.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I've dropped that pass, but that's what you that's the
chance to take it. Could be a great pass. Everything,
and a game.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Campbell, I think, really, if I could still play, which
I can't, I want to play for him.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
But that game, I think he screwed this thing up.
Small fault, small fault. I still like the guy. I mean,
I love that. I loved it, like that he said,
I would.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Love to play for a guy at that because you
know that guy will run through a wall for you. Yeah,
like that guy his player. They should use you. Hey,
they could have used you last year too. Yeah, I'll
see it that. Yeah, they were picking guys off the
street and was right.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Here under contract playing for Cleveland at the time. That
wasn't fair. I'm being a little hyperbolic, but it's it's fair.
First quarter minus thirty seven. I mean, yeah, that doesn't
it probably doesn't make a lot of sense. But I
guess as a tone setting idea and again situations what
it is.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And I don't know who you're playing. You're playing the Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Like we watched on Quarterback Show where Joe Burrow was
talking about it was like week two, I think they
were playing the Chiefs and they were saying, you play different,
you just have to, and they were going for it.
They were being uber aggressive even earlier in the game,
not like earlierly, but earlier in the game. They had
a fourth goal and he said, normally we're kicking a
field goal there, we have to go for it here.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yep, we know who's on the other side of this thing.
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I mean, that does make sense because you know that
the other guy playing quarterback is a wizard and you're
not gonna you know, I don't care how good your
defense is, more than likely you're not keeping that team
to ten to thirteen points.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
It's like the Eagles from last year. You know, it
was a you're kind of worried about the idea of like,
if they get the ball back, they have a two
headed monster and Jander Hurts and Saquan and they have
a good old line and they're in four down territory
no matter where they are. So can we stop them
in four plays and get the ball back? That's the
decisions you have to make.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I guess I just I tend to look at it,
and again, there's just this mindset flip a little bit.
You're telling your team, we think we can get it.
I see where you're coming from, Shelle, and you're saying
that as a defense, there's a maybe a thing you
can read into it of well, they don't believe in us.
That's why they keep going forward and first on fourth down.
Like see your own own team is going forward and
(29:58):
fourth down. It's because they I don't think the defense
can get the stops. I think it's I think it
also be ready the other way. It's like, hey, man,
if we don't get it, defense, get out there and
get this stop holding the three points, hold him to this?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (30:10):
I can see what you're saying, Like you can look
at it from both ways? Who do have you have
a valid argument about that? That he that Dave that
Line'm not thinking, but just as a guy who's been
on that side and watch our team go forward on
fourth down, it's like, what the hell are you thinking?
We have this?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
We got this.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I mean, the main thing with Shelby's trying to say
is because I was able to read through that he
has no idea what you were talking about either. He's
just a polite gentleman. He answered in a very generic ways,
as I have tried to do so many times. So
I don't know now after this segment whether you actually
would go for it on from the minus thirty seven
(30:48):
or you'd punt it because you want to send a
message to the defense. You don't want them to be
pissed or but hurt, and so we'll punt it. No, wait,
don't pun it. Let's go for it. So I'm you know,
I end this particular segment and this hour in a
rather confused state.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I think you nailed it perfectly.
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