08-05-25 KOA Sports Hour 1 with Benjamin Allbright

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
But you're all right back again. Hi, Ben, how's it going.

(00:02):
It's good? Nice medium black shirt.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Leaving nothing to the imagination. It got me good on
that Saturday, so good on that. I was proud of
that one.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Uh huh day.

Speaker 4 (00:13):
Good to see you, my friend.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good to see both of you. Now, what's up, fellas?

Speaker 4 (00:21):
Another band of we were you know?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Is a good another good day of practice, very interesting,
not disinteresting, very interesting practice, especially from the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
And yeah, we're.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
Obviously a lot to react. We had a fun show.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
We got Charles Robinson from Yahoo Sports did write up
we talked about yesterday with Sean Payton, where Sean said
that this was a super Bowl team in that bow
Nicks again very interesting. Bo Nicks is going to be
uh one of the top five quarterbacks in the next
couple of years.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
So we'll get to that.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Mike mcglenchie joining us at five thirty trying to write
tackle for your Denver Broncos.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
So I will I will miss that. So tell him,
I said, what's.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Up, we'll do, We'll do.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm sure to stay healthy and he needs to have
a good and I would think I would think he's capable,
certainly of one of those and then you just keep
your fingers crossed the other one.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, I'll happily pass along from per Dave Logan. Please
stay healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Dave has two notes for you.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Stay healthy and have a good season.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
All right, Well, we're.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Looking forward to chatting with Mike coming up here at
five point thirty. But yeah, today was a good practice,
no interceptions again, not that to be in the world.
There were really two articles on Sean Payton today, one
from Seth Wickersham and then one from Albert Breer, who
is out here on Saturday. So the Bronco is getting
all sorts of coverage, Dave, we are, We're back in

(01:40):
a lot of ways.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
The coverage is no longer.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
You're no longer under the radar, underdog story, who cares
about the Broncos at five and a half wins. You're
nine and a half and you've got quite literally articles
and sound bites come out of every single day about
the Broncos nationally.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah. I think that's by design. When you have your
head coach that says this is one of seven teams
in his career that he thought in training camp was
capable of getting to a Super Bowl, that's news. If
the coach has actually been to a super Bowl, and
we all know that Sean Payton certainly fits the bill.
So again we talked about yesterday. I don't think anything

(02:16):
he does is without calculation. I think he did that.
He made that comment to a national reporter with intent,
and I think he's welcoming sort of the spotlight. I'm
guessing that he feels like that will bring the best
out of his players. He wants those players to understand

(02:39):
and believe that he believes that they can get there.
So you know what I'm not. You know, I'm not
mad at him. I think now you've got to go
out and put together, you know, the preseason and make
some decisions and then here we go.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
We've come a long way from an anonymous donors.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
How long did you work in that line?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Too?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Seriously you have.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
I've be thinking about it all day.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
A long way from I want anonymous donors in his
intro press conference, and of course he just.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Was too separate, very distinctly different things. Don't you think.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
He's certainly not anonymous in his donations on these all?

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Right? Do you see do you see Sean out at
Park Meadows opening a store? Do you see Sean. I
mean Russell was out there a lot with Sierra. I mean,
more power to him. I think that's what Sean was
referencing when he said, I'd like anonymous donors. You don't
have to videotape every single well and now it's done again,

(03:47):
work out you don't have to you don't have to
do that. I mean, Russell was a man about to
you know, did we have trouble finding out and acknowledging
that he went to Europe with Nathaniel Hackett and his
wife before the season started. No, we didn't if we're
on social media, so that I think that's what Sean

(04:08):
was talking well, and for the.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Broncos organization, that's a better thing not having as many leaks.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
I like, to Shawn's credit, he's made my job a
lot harder.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
I got anything I wanted out of Nate Hackett. It
is much more difficult for me to get certain things
with this with Sean Payton there than it used to be.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
I'm saying a little bit tongue in cheek.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I guess the way I thought about it today as
I'm seeing the concert reports and certainly Sean doing a
lot of these interviews. Even that year that first season,
he still did interviews, right, but.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Oh, Sean Payton is the face of the Denver Broncos
when Sean Payton is the head coach of the Denver Broncks.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
No design fact, but it's just it's sort of it's
not a bad thing.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Actually, I think inevitably you were not going to be
that team, right the anonymous donors, And I think part
of that was the shift that he wanted to do
with the culture of this team.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
He felt like every was too out in front.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
He didn't like the fact, not only as you mentioned
with Russell Wilson going with the head coach over to
Europe and attending whatever they're attending, and then also the
off season videos, but it was the off season videos
even of the team, like the team following Nathaniel Hackett
out of his garage as he's looking at justin Timberlake
records and stuff like that, right, the following of George
Peyton as they were filming the entire head coach searching process.

(05:24):
He just wanted none of it, and he wanted to
fly under the radar. But now you're beyond that, I
guess is my point. As you are beyond that, so
the anonymous donors thing. In some ways his tongue and chicken.
In the other ways, it's just an acknowledgement, Dave. I
think that we've moved into a new era. Now the
Broncos have to back it up because you're no longer
in that under the radar team.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Do you guys like this?

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Do you like being out there where everybody's front running
the Denver Broncos Now? I like being slept on. I
liked it last year beating up on people, being slept on.
I kind of prefer that role, I don't, you know.
I mean, there's a certain pressure that comes with your
head coach out there putting the expectation and now you've
got to live up to that.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Maybe maybe he thinks the team needs it. Maybe, you know,
maybe that's you know, coaches. Coaches get get a little
quirky and when they sit sit in their office and
look at film and you know, come up with ideas
how to motivate this, how to do that, and they
get a little they get a little out of their
mind at times. So maybe he thinks, like, hey, you
know what, I want my guys to hear what I

(06:21):
think of him? And if I think it, and I'm
willing to go out in a national stage and and
say it. Then they ought to be a confident team,
and they ought to know like we're looking, we're looking
for all the smoke, all of it. Now, I would
I would be more like Ben. I think you'd try
to as much as you can fly under the radar.

(06:43):
But that's that's not the path that Sean has chosen.
And maybe maybe he's got really good reason for it.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, I'm and different people are motivated by different things, right,
Maybe those maybe these guys do need that because they
haven't been a team that's been out there and had
that expectation on him in nearly, you know, a decade
or whatever outside of the clip of the russ first
signing kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
I just I was always motivated more by people telling
me what I can't do than what I can, you know,
than where they expected me to be.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
You know, today's point, having your pulse on the team
is one of the most important things of being a
head coach, right knowing early on when he got here, guys,
we're gonna we're to sort of strip this thing down
as far as our ourward persona as far as what
people see us as, we're gonna get rid of a
lot of that stuff. We're gonna do a lot of
our work behind the scenes, and then we're gonna show

(07:31):
everybody through our work what is gonna translate on the field.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
And they've done that. They went to the postseason last year.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Know if a lot of that had to do with
the fact that they really kind of hunkered down and
they focused on being a serious team. Well, now you're
a serious team. You're a team that is definitely not
gonna be slept on. You're a team that is a
bit of a front runner in a lot of ways.
And so what does that look like? Well, now Sean
is sort of entered in the next chapter. I guess
as a head coach, which is I'm gonna motivate my
guys by telling them all outwardly I believe in them,

(07:58):
and I'm gonna I'll put the bolton board material up
here for everybody. I'm gonna put the put up here
that Bonix is gonna be a top five quarterback in
the next two years. And let all those defenses that
we're gonna play, say, okay, let's take a look at
this guy who might be a top five quarterback in
the next two years.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, I think when when the season starts, I think
that would be I think that would be more beneficial
to opposing defenses, Like if he if he had said
it in March, because then it's like, huh, got a
lot of respect for that guy. If that guy thinks
his quarterback can be a top five quarterback, I'm gonna

(08:34):
go back and look and see what if I've been
missing because I didn't. I didn't think of him that way.
But I think once the season starts, there's only so
many hours in the day. Even though NFL coaches test
the limits, there's only so many days to prepare for
a guy. You get, you get a week. You try
to use eighteen plus hours every single day to sit
look at his scheme and look at personnel, look at

(08:56):
the quarterback. What is he like? What are we good at?
How do we pressure him? How do we get off
his spot? What's the run game look like? I mean,
they spend countless hours coming up with that. And I
don't think the fact that Sean Payton, even on a
national stage, has said I think this team is capable
of getting to the super Bowl and Bo Nixon is
going to be a top four or five quarterback within

(09:16):
a couple of years. I don't think that will give
teams that are about to play the Broncos any extra incentive.
What will give them incentive is that the Broncos can
get off to a good start and display and demonstrate
that they are going to be a good team. What
they can't do, what you hope they don't do, is
stub their toe early in the season. The first game

(09:37):
is at home against Tennessee. Right number one pick in
the draft comes in Tennessee is going to be sort
of dangerous because you don't expect you don't expect them
to be any good. And your guys in the locker room,
you can tell them all you want to, don't look
at the tape, don't listen to what you're hearing or

(09:58):
what you see or what you read. You can tell
him that until your ears start to shrivel and it
you know they're gonna look at it and say, we're
gonna boat race these guys. I mean, it's just it's
human nature. It's what every NFL coach fights against his
team preparing for a team, looking over and saying like, oh,

(10:18):
these guys are awful.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah, you can't take it.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
You can't.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
I mean, yeah, you've got a trap game to open
the season, that's.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Right, But you can't.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
You can't sleep on that.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
You can't.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
You can't take for granted that it's a rookie and
start or you know, in any of that kind of stuff.
And so, I mean, my wallet, I bet that game already.
But you know, I'm hoping that the players are are
not sitting there with the expectations that I have for
that game.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
We just got an interesting text seven to two oh
three five five Sean is one verse six. I don't
put a lot of stock in his gut feeling. And
why is he so open when with national media and
then treats the local media like crap? I mean he's
not wrong. I don't.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Don't have an answer for that.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
Yeah, one for six. I'm assuming he's referring to drafting quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
No, I think he's won for six against the best teams.
And remember last year that they they only won five
hundred teams that were in the postseason or civil.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
And that was the Chiefs backups. No, there was another
there was another game.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
I'm trying to think off the top of my head,
because Tampa Tampa, Tampa was a playoff team beat them.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Okay, I think I think the Broncos were one and
six against teams that had better than a five hundred
record at the end of the Sea excluded. I mean again,
you know what, Yes, there were some games in there
that I'm sure the Broncos felt like they should have won.
I mean, they should have beaten the Chargers in l A.
I think you could make a case even though they

(11:49):
had a hard time getting slowed down, they should. They
could have beaten the Bengals in Cincinnati. But all that stuff,
I get it. One thing about Sean Payton, he he
doesn't really care what anybody thinks of him, thinks about him,

(12:11):
says about him. Maybe he cares, but he's going to
ignore you and just kind of keep keep moving. Now.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
He's going to be him. That's one of the I
think one of the most admirable traits is that he does.
He absolutely you are not going to affect Sean Payton's
opinion of Sean Payton.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Well, certainly, i'd say for that. In that kind of bravado,
you know again, it resonates with the players. I mean
what we think in the media and what we'll say
about it outwardly is only matters so much. It really
kind of matters specifically on how the players react to it,
doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
Of course, I mean, coaches make a lot of money
in the league, but ultimately it's how they prepare their team,
and then how does that team go out and play
once a week, how do they play, and ultimately how
many games do they win. You might make improvement, you
might improve in two or three different areas. At the

(13:10):
at the end of the season, the judgment for most
NFL head coaches is how many games do you win
and how many games do you lose? And that'll be
how the Broncos are are judge this year. I think
Sean feels like this is the year that they can
stand up to the Chiefs and find a way to
knock him off. And I think he feels like they

(13:32):
can win the AFC West and if you win the
AFC West, you automatically get a home playoff game. And
I think in the back of his mind he's saying, hey, listen,
we've been better at establishing here in Denver. We're pretty
tough to beat. Yeah, this is you said you wanted
to have a theme.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Song for Sean. This makes sense. Got to be me right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
On the side of this conversation, though, are we are
we setting up for me failure or disappointment anyway?

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Things about it all? Oh, I'm just trying to pose like.
I love the idea that he's setting a high standard.
I love the idea that Sean is saying. I mean,
because if you sat a low standard, you're always gonna
clear it right.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
So I love the fact he's set in the high standard,
make the playoffs, win the division. So is it setting
it up for massive disappointment? If Bo has a sophomore schlump?
We have this remarkable injury run that we've been on
all of a sudden suddenly craters.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Is there I mean, from the.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Flip side of that, is there is there a chance
we're setting this thing up for a massive disappointment.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
There's a chance. Again, I don't I don't think Sean cares.
I think Sean feels like he's got a team. Uh,
he's willing to put the spotlight on the team and himself.
I think he very much liked the way his team
played last year, and I think he liked the fact
that he was right about bow Knicks, and there were

(14:49):
plenty of people, even though they continue to look at
bon Nix and sort of nitpick his game, there were
plenty of people that were wrong. I mean bo Nicks
on a couple draft prognostications. I saw was a third
round guy Sean basically after the Broncos took him with
a twelfth overall pick, like was righteously indignant about what

(15:14):
what are you looking at? And you know what, he
was right. So I think he likes me right and
most coaches do. And I think he's saying, hey, you
know what, I'm not afraid to step out here. Put
the lad on me, Put the lad on my team.
If something happens and we don't have as good a year,
that's fine, but it won't be. It won't be because

(15:34):
we shied away from it, or we try to sort
of come in through the back door and we got,
you know, our tail caught in the door. It's going
to be like, hey, we're here. We think we can
beat you. This year. We think we're going to win
the AFC West. I know you guys have won it
for whatever nine straight years, but this year we think
we can beat you.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
By the way, on the text line, some people are
saying that the text of the one you read a
little bit ago was more referencing that he's one in
six on his predicted team that could win a Super Bowl.
Like he said, He's like I had six teams that
I thought could win a championship in this of the seventh.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Sure there's a context to that though in fair enough,
like I dogg Sean Payton for only win and one
Super Bowl with Drew Brees. But the flip side of
that is they probably should have got another opportunity with
the Nicole Rolby Coleman call. You know, they probably should
have had at least another opportunity to compete for that
or no call.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Well, yeah, that's what I mean.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, I mean, could you not make the same case
for most NFL coaches that are not named Bill Belichick?
I mean, Sean McVay has been there what twice? Right,
he's won one?

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oney been there twice and hadn't gotten any It is
oh one two.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
I mean, he's John fox in it at this point. Well,
I mean, Tim Foxy got there twice and didn't win anyone.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
But to feel good about a team and then be
a playoff team that makes it to say, the NFC
Championship game. I mean, like you remember the Rams game,
what you talked about that yesterday. Then there was the
the Minneapolis Miracle wherever where Diggs comes down with a
miraculous play.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
I'm not giving I'm not giving him grace all now.
I'm giving like that that play game they came out
and beat you. I know I'm giving a grace.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
On the that that call Championship game, right right, Nicole
roll be call a non call was one of the
most blatant, egregious what game you do things?

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Ever?

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, sure, And I don't. I don't want to get
into semantics on that.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
I'm saying I can see from Shawn's perspective where he
felt like we had this thing won until the very
final second, and when we lost it, you lost it.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
I mean, it was a great play, don't. I'm not
trying to take away from that.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
You've been argumentative, but I'd say, specifically in that one,
for Shawn, I did because because he's going out of
his way to argue. But I'm saying in this case,
in this case, the the way Sean might look at
that is that team is one of the six that
he had in mind that he thought could do it
the way because because the very next game week was
against the Eagles, and I think that was the NFC

(17:54):
championship game, and then the Vikings get just absolutely boat
raced in that the full.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Was that the it was at the VET. I don't
I don't know if they got boat raced or not,
but I know they lost, yeah for sure, but I don't.
I mean, they made a play. Great great teams, great players.
Come out and make sure he's and all that. I'm not.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
I'm not giving him grace that I'd.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Be like saying that the Broncos should have won, you know,
because Joe Flacco didn't deserve to go and win because
he made a play, you know, over a marshal.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Those things are true. Broncos should have won, and Joe
Flacco was not deserving of winning that day, but.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
He did well.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
Absolutely the beauty of the NFL.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
The quote, the quote is I I had those teams.
I imagine that was as we're going into the season.
I had six teams in mind that I thought that
I believe it could. And that's the point. I can
get behind that.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
And maybe he also thinks by making that comment, because
I've known if coaches that are really good at refocusing
their team two or three times during the year, maybe
in training camp. Sean feels like I want them to
hear me say this. We're not just going through the motions.

(19:00):
I think we have a super Bowl team here. If
the head coach and his expectations are up here. As
a player, I think you have to look and say, okay,
we got to meet I need to elevate my elevate
my game, and you better elevate your game. And it
just sort of goes through the locker room.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
That's the same. Like I had this, uh, this started
major what I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I had this great quote, this plaque up on a
wall in his office, right, and He's just like, we
set the standard higher on here, and if people can't
meet it, we thank them kinda for try and send
them on their way. And I've always loved that for
football coaches too. You know, it's we got a super
Bowl standard here. I'm like, if you can't meet it,
thank you kind of for trying. I'm an find people
who will.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
All right, Robin only here on Tuesday five six six nine,
Zeros a KA with commaspreate health text line, all sorts
of fun stuff to get into. We'll get into some
of the thoughts from practice today. Also, as I mentioned earlier,
the Seth Wickersham article talking about the formula that Sean
Payton uses to find his quarterbacks.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
We'll get into that coming up next, Rihanna.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
And then I got pitch. Dave's yeah, well they do sing,
but I pitch.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yeah, pitch, And you're a heck.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Of a drummer, great air drummer. Yes, there's the difference.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
We're gonna have.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
We're gonna have Charles Robinson from IU Sports, who had
the big quotes yesterday from Sean Payton. We'll get to
him at five o'clock Mike Blini at five thirty today.
So today, in one of the many articles that all
came out within the last forty eight hours or so
on Sean Payton and the Broncos, Seth Wickersham on ESPN
dot com put out an excerpt from his new book

(20:28):
coming out about Quarterbacks, about finding quarterbacks, and I mean,
looks like some interesting stuff. And he sort of followed
Sean from the pre draft process all the way to
current Broncos.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
And there's some quotes from bon Nix.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
There's some there's a really cool moment of with Boone
Nix and Davis Webb and the quarterbacks and they're all
in it's in May, and they're all kind of working
through some of the plays from last season. So there's
really cool. It's a really cool excerpt that they put
up there at ESPN dot com. But in it and
what people have been talking about today, Benjamin is about
the formula that he uses to find quarterbacks. Why don't

(21:01):
you go ahead and tell us what he put up there.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
Well, there's a couple of things.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
With this.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
Yeah, according to Saysean came up with the formulas.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Said, he looked at the rate of negative plays against
you know, total dropbacks, so the percentage of sacks, fumbles, interceptions,
added them together for an average. And he also likes
to look at a quarterbacks completion percentage. He has a
cutoff there and a cut off number there, although that
doesn't factor into what Wickersham called an algorithm.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Although this is not an algorithm, it's just a formula.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Then he went on to explain how apparently, according to Sean,
he was ready to draft Pat Mahomes to the Saints
back when New Orleans had the number eleven overall pick
and Sean has been very loud about saying that since
that draft. But everything I was told before then was
Watson was his guy, which was backed up by if
you put these numbers together, Watson being better in this

(21:51):
formula than Pat Mahomes. This, I ran the numbers on this,
and I ran it against first rounders, and this formula
doesn't seem to predict anything. At the end of the day,
the Sean Payton formula, if you were to believe it,
the top five quarterbacks in the last ten years would
have been Boenix, Michael Pennix, Mac Jones, C. J.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
Stroud, and Tua.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
And the worst five quarterbacks over the last ten years
would have been Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, justin Fields, can
you Pickett and Daniel Jones. It doesn't seem to have
any realistic correlation here of anything. It doesn't predict winners
or losers or any of that kind of stuff. It's
something that he's confident in and that he thinks works
for him, And if that's what works for you, more

(22:36):
power to you. But his claimed that he had Mahomes
as the guy in that draft as someone who did
have Mahomes as the guy in that draft doesn't seem
to hold water with this formula, which doesn't which had
Trubisky and Watson is better than Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
I mean, I think this is legit for what it's word.
I think this is exactly what he does use. I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Then I got into a discussion earlier on this, Dave.
I think, like a lot of analytics, if you will,
And we've had our fun on the show over over time. Yes,
we have talking about analytics. It's just one piece of
the puzzle. So if you if if you just took
these numbers, like if say, say Sean Payton is scouting
quarterbacks and he's looking at ones that A Bonix's draft

(23:22):
class last year, and he just looked at these numbers. Hey,
I take attempts and then I take the interception percentage,
fumbel percentage and sack percentage, and that's all I need
to know about these quarterbacks. Well, then you'd be doing
it wrong. You gotta watch, you gotta watch the film,
you've got to meet the quarterbacks, you gotta interview. I
think it's just like any other analytic, it's just part
of the equation. That's my opinion.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, based on what you just said, I would agree
with you. I think the biggest thing about was that
tough Well you confused me a little bit so well
your number wizardy. I you know, I really didn't know
how to answer it. I just thought i'd say, you
know what, you're right if I feel like if I
talked to you, not right very much, and so ever
now and then I want to make sure people hear

(24:03):
the fact that you're even if I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
That you're right, why thank you.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
I think the biggest thing I don't know about the
formula completion percentage is important. You know, sacks are important.
You got to gauge how much of the pressure is
caused by inadequate offensive line play or maybe the scheme
has been figured out. I mean that happens. That happens

(24:33):
even in the NFL. But I think the biggest single
ability to judge a quarterback is to watch that quarterback
on tape and watch every single one of his throws.
I think you can gauge more doing that than you
can with any analytic adventure you or your crew might go.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
I totally agree, and it's funny because the quotes that
Wickersham has from Sean Payton are sound resoundingly intelligent when
it comes to this, and then you have this formula
which doesn't seem to make any sense at all. Because
Peyton said, he's like, I think the processing is very important.
That's the first sign of us for a heavily sacked
quarterback is processing. Then I would say awkward positions where
he throws pretty well from off platform, throws the orchestrated ones,

(25:21):
not the ones you see it at a pro day, yep,
you know. And he's he goes on to talk about
and gets into the minutia of getting behind and looking
at the tape on this stuff, which and everything he
says there makes a ton of sense, and then you
have this wack of doodle formula or whatever that doesn't
seem to make any sense, doesn't predict anything. And told
you that Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen are the two

(25:43):
worst quarterbacks in the last decade. But you know, I
got into debate on this a little earlier because in
a lot of ways, Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen are
kind of outliers. Like what they've become is impressive, but
even at the time with Josh Allen, there are questions
about whether he'd be able to translate grow.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
Into it and that kind of standing.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
They both went to organizations like Baltimore had patients with
LAMAR and the right offense for him to grow into it.
Josh obviously Buffalo had the patients to let him develop
it into jo because the.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
First the biggest concern about Josh Allen was his completion percentage. Yes,
it was he going to be an accurate enough quarterback
in the NFL to be a big time player, right,
And I think there was some concern about his level
of play at Wyoming. Yeah, he played well, but his
completion percentage was not where NFL scouts wanted it, and

(26:26):
the level of competition that he faced was obviously not
not as good as well.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
And Josh took a lot of sacks and he had
one of the highest sack rates you know, ever And
in the interception he had the was the second highest
interception rate of any first round quarterback in the last
decade behind Anthony Richardson.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
He was a classic tools conversation.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
But they but Buffalo gave him the you know, they
were like, we're gonna We're we're in this thing. And
it took tail a year, two and a half year
three for Josh to get there, but he started to
get there.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah, there's a.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Reason why again, but for I mean highsight being what
it is. Lamar Jackson at the time was being talked
about as a wide receiver by some teams, and when
thirty second overall, if you know, no need have been
a multi time MVP.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
Well it's certainly not going thirty second fair.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
But any formula that says that Mac Jones, Paxton Lynch,
Mitch Trubisky and Dwayne Haskins and Trey Lance are better
than Pat Mahomes is a bad.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Let's again in a concise way. What is the formula again?

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Okay I could here, let me pull it up for you.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Was just a request from the audience.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Explain exactly what it is here because I wrote this
thing down as I as I did it.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
It's sacks.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
Okay, interceptions, Wait, wait are we adding these things?

Speaker 2 (27:31):
We're adding these things against those sacks, interceptions and drop back.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, per drop back.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
It's basically bad plays per drop back.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
So you're you're adding all the sacks of a year,
all the interceptions of a year. All the fumbles of
a year. Okay, then how many are you calling boots dropbacks?

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Any play in which you attempted a pass which resulted
obviously in a sack or an incompletion or a completed
pass or an interception. So passing attempts, it's the rate
at which you accumulate a bad play per drop back
is what this This number really is boiled down. And
but and that's that's fine. I mean, I believe there's
something to that in the sense that you don't want
somebody who's doing that a lot.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
I mean, he's big on Sean is obviously big on sacks. Yeah, well,
because when he when he coached Russell, he talked a
lot about that. When Russell left, he talked a lot
about that. When they drafted Bow, he talked about that
quality that he liked from Bow At Oregon, he didn't
take many sacks after the first year. After last year

(28:33):
with both the starting quarterback, Sean has mentioned two or
three times at least in the offseason, this guy doesn't
take sacks. And here's why that's important. So that's obviously
an important component of how he views the position.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I mean, in all West Coast guys are like that,
there's a schedule, offense, anything, anything.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
I don't know all West Coast guys are like that
with the with the taking the sacks. I mean, I mean,
every coach in the NFL doesn't want to take right.
I've never heard him in my Shannon uh you know
is big what is one of the architects of after
which San Francisco off the West Coast. I I don't
spend a lot of time around Mike. I mean, I'm

(29:11):
sure he didn't like sacks, but I don't ever remember sacks.
To Sean Payton, that's like one of the two or
three things that he talks about all the time. Right,
Mike talked about the importance of a running game, and
the second thing I think he stressed more than anything,
you must marry your play pass, the action of that

(29:32):
to the actual runs that you're performing in a game.
And that's something that I mean, until Sean got here,
that wasn't being done by a number of offensive coordinators.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'll say I'll say this that the Golf Coast guys
that I've talked to hate the sacks.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
Let's let's put it that way. That's probably the Gulf
Coast yes, who or what and Sean and you know
all the guys.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Right, Okay, so all right you know that that.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
Has been That's probably more accurate way to say that.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Absolutely, If you just talk enough, Ben, eventually you'll be right.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
I learned it from Ryan Edwards.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Five six six days zeros or katay commentsparated, I'll text line.
We got a lot of reaction coming into our conversation.
The one thing I would I did want to add
to this discussion debate that we haven't about the formula
if you will. Once again for me, I do think
a huge portion of of any analysis of quarterbacks after
the fact does need to include where they ended up going. Like,

(30:27):
for example, Mac Jones is really high on that list.
Right well, there were some people that really thought Mike
Jones could be something in the NFL.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
They were all he went to the first round for
pread out loud.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
There there's guys that make mistake on quarterback all the time.
I mean all the time.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
I want to hear and Ryan Edwards is the person
who I want to know.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Not to gloat. I just don't get based on how
Mac Jones played in college. He was a good college player,
but anybody that said, honestly, hey, that dude is gonna
be a ten year starter in the league. I would
have been like, based on what, well, you.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Know, Alabama had the formula for those guys the same
way USC used to have the formula for those guys.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Your formulas.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Well, I'm saying I'm being metaphorical here, but like the
Matt Lioner, it's the you know and all that kind
of stuff. When they had all those guys rolling through
Matt Barkley's and and you know Alabama had that before
they switched it up, and it was Greg McElroy and
AJ mccarroon and Mac Jay.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
It was the same guy. They're all the same guy.
Aj mccerran. I think you could make the case overall
was a little bit better NFL quarterback than Mac Jones.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
And he's in the UFL right now, right does he
still playing? He's supposed to Saint Loos BattleHawks.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Wonder if Britt Musburger's broadcasting Saint Louis BattleHawks games.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
Just wondering I needed that you got your fastball today.
This is good. It's a really never say everyday thing though,
but yeah, okay, very quickly on this.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
I just think that We sometimes judge these quarterbacks without
including the fact that they went to maybe a bad
organization or organization that didn't really have a good planform,
or had a lot of changes at coaching staff, so
on and so forth, changes in the plan. The reason
josh Allen Lamar Jackson worked the way they did is
in part because of the development plan. It's not to
say they were going to never be good quarterbacks, but
to be as great as they are took a plan,

(32:22):
took an organization to believe in them in that direction.

Speaker 4 (32:25):
That's all I'm trying to see.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
I think with respect to Baltimore, I think the Ravens
were really good at having a plan right when they
drafted him, because Ozzie k Newsom knew he was not
drafting a proto prototypical pocket passer, and so they drastically
changed the offense. If you forced Lamar Jackson, who I

(32:46):
think is much better as a thrower, honestly, maybe even
better than I thought he would be. He's he can
throw the ball. But if you initially in his career
put him in an offense that was a pure pocket passing,
drop back offense, I don't think he would have been
the same quarterback he is today. So that's kudos to
Ozzie and the Ravens coaching staff for doing that. But

(33:08):
but a lot of NFL teams they don't want to
do that. They want that quarterback to fit what they
think the quarterback position should look like. And that's why
they have been slow to the party with some of
these really great college quarterbacks because they say, yeah, you
got to win from the pocket. You still do, but
there's other attributes these young quarterbacks have that you need

(33:29):
to take advantage of.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Yeah, they switched from Marty morning Wig to Greg Roman
like it was.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
You know, there are some coaches out there that recognize it, though,
I mean Cliff Kingsbury I think has been great at
recognized the field sets to help these guys