Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ryan Edward's Betty Fower and studio with us until six
o'clock five six six nine zeros or Kawai common Spirit
health text line. If you want to interact with us,
and uh, yeah, I gotta I gotta ask you about
AJ Brown, man, I gotta ask you about the Diva
wide receiver and all that I mean because again you
and I say this affectionately. I've never seen you interviewing
(00:21):
you in the locker room or otherwise as it a
Diva wide receiver, but you played the position and you
know plenty of them. Does AJ Brown have a point though?
Absolutely well? Number one, I could never be a Diva receiver.
I was undrafted, So it doesn't work to doesn't work
well for you as an undrafted receiver to demand or
(00:41):
ask for anything. Well, Ross Smith was an undrafted guy
and he probably didn't ask for much. I don't think
he ever asked. I mean, you know, Rod's very mild
mannered guy.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
One of the.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Greatest Broncos receivers ever, one of the greatest receivers ever
in the league period. He's more of a work ethic guy. Yeah,
he's a work ethic but you know he got than that.
But he also played with l Way. He played with
quarterbacks that threw the ball down the field. It's Hall
of famers. Aj Brown, I understand where he's coming from,
and I'm one thousand percent on his side in terms
(01:12):
of how he feels, the way he's responding to things,
the cryptic tweets, the messages. I'm not for that, but
being upset, you should be upset number one. I think
he's getting paid over thirty million dollars a year. That
means you're one of the top receivers in the league.
He also has the ability of a number one, and
he deserves the ball. Jalen Hurrs is getting paid fifty million.
(01:33):
Hey my man, you need to find me the ball. Like,
this is what are we doing here? He's running hitch routes,
he's running slants or go routes. There's no he's not
being moved around. He's getting targeted though. Yeah, these targets
aren't great targets. Now, if you go back to the
target tape and look at it, these are long foul balls.
I do is being thrown out of bounds. So it
looks like, hey, well we threw you the ball eight
(01:54):
times nine targets here only four of them I could
actually catch. So yeah, I totally understand where he's coming
from because next year, the Eagles are going to ask
for him to take a pay cut based off of
his yards and productions this year, and he's going to
be upset about that because he didn't really have any opportunities.
And you know, receivers they want the ball because he
(02:14):
can have that type of effect on the game when
he does get the ball. His catch and run opportunity
is very much like Terrell Owens, somebody who wanted the
ball a lot. And there I play with receivers who
have this dynamic ability. Damarius Thomas like, if you throwing
the ball, you never know what could happen, an Odell Beckham,
you throw on the ball, you never know what could happen.
I played with Michael Thomas in New Orleans. These types
(02:34):
of these guys can take over games. And right now
they're not running the ball, well, well, they're not doing
anything really really well on offense. I mean they're thirty
first in passing. I mean that's remarkable. Thirty first and
passing with two receivers who could be number ones on
most NFL team. So that's say, if a j Brown
came here. Oh as great as Courtland isn't as great
as he's playing. AJ Brown's number one. There's like twenty
(02:57):
teams that he'd be a number one, and maybe even more.
I'm just saying, like, just off the top of my head,
I would say, yeah, I mean, you just go down
the list of me tonight. You obviously got the Rams,
They've got a couple of number ones as well, but
the forty nine ers, I mean, yeah, he'd be the
number one.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
He'd be easily number one. Yeah, So I think you know.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
That's where AJ is and I totally understand it because look,
he's got one more contract, maybe he's got a couple
more years left, and these are your max earning years.
Like he'll never in his life ever make thirty five
million dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I don't care. You have to be a public company
CEO to make that type of money.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Which he's not. That's not his trajectory of his life.
So ma's earning potential in years. Hey man, I need
the ball and.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Number one I can have that type of effect.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So but let me let me ask you like this,
because you and I both know that from a fan base,
especially for a four and oh team, there's probably gonna
be like, what, dude, what are you doing? Like your
team is winning you guys, yeah, you're you're not reaching
your full potential. But we know if that's looking like
it's week four, give it some time. There are other
teams around the league, and I'm I'm just more of
(04:00):
a devil's advocate, like a fan perspective. There are teams
around the league that are struggling way worse than the Eagles,
not only in the win and loss column, but also offensively.
And so it feels like the defending Super Bowl champions
who have started out four and know that, no, they
really have that in their back pocket. It's eventually going
to get there. It just feels like he should be
(04:22):
giving this some time instead of putting out cryptic tweets
in the midst of a winning streak.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What if winning doesn't mean anything to me anymore? Oh,
you got to be kidding me.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I mean, did you see his posts after they won
the super Bowl and talked and he talked about, Wow,
we won the super Bowl and this is not this
is not what I thought it would be, and how
he's going to go back to work.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I do remember that.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, you know, so maybe winning isn't everything to him.
And I know plenty of players. I've played with plenty
of players like you know, after you win the Super Bowl,
it's more about how much money you can make and leg.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, legacy things.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Now you're playing for Hall of Fame, you're not necessarily
playing for Oh, let's go win another super Bowl like
the Tom Brady's and the Patriots. Those are anomalies where
people bought in. But after those people, you know, people
like Ammadella would go somewhere else to get more money
and then they end up coming back. So, yeah, who
said aj Brown actually wants to win championships? I mean,
it's a fair point. You're right, and there's an assumption
(05:17):
and that most people, fans or otherwise think winning is
the most important thing in the world. But in the
reality is because of the business of the league, there's
a lot more to it, and especially the individual accolades
and your placement within those individual accolades. We talk about
it in terms of quarterbacks all the time, right about, Hey,
is this guy a Hall of Famer? This guy a
Hall of Famer? And those are individual stats. Sometimes it's
(05:37):
time to the t team's success, but most of them
it's because quarterbacks impacted so much. When you're a wide
receiver and you're a dependent position, it is a little
bit of a different mindset and you do have to
be a bit selfish. So I understand your perspective, but
you and your perspective is a wide receiver. Rod Smith
and his perspective a wide receiver. I think that sometimes
(05:58):
filters into fans perspective on it, because then fans are like, well,
I want a Rod Smith, I want a Betty Fowler.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I want guys like Cortland.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Sutton who are out there blocking their ass off when
they know that it will impact and help the team
win games, which should be the most important thing. Yeah, well,
I mean, you know, I love that perspective, and I
love you know, fans who think about this, But then
you got to put yourself in that situation. And if
you know you're that talented where you could take over
a game and you're not getting the ball, that's a
(06:27):
real problem. And you know, Jalen Hurts isn't He's not
a rookie, he's not in his first or second year.
This is a veteran quarterback. This is a Super Bowl
winning quarterback. We've gone to the Super Bowl twice. You
need to be able to read the defense, not only
that the offensive coordinator. Most importantly, how are you not
moving me around? How are you not finding ways to
get me open? When you look at the Kevin o'connells,
we look at the Kyle shanahan's, we look at the
(06:49):
Sean Payton's of the world. They find a way to
get their star receivers and their best players the ball
in space. Everybody knows that Justin Jefferson is going to
get the ball, they find a different.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Way to move him around.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Why is aj Brown lined up outside the numbers every play?
That doesn't make any sense. So I think that is
where his frustration is coming from. I think Kellen Moore
had to figure that out last year, found different ways
to get him in the rock. He doesn't throw him screen,
get him a handoff, give him a reverse. You got
to get this guy going and involved. And I think,
I mean, the Broncos are getting ready to see it.
(07:23):
But I think he Dave and I got a little
bet Day thinks he's going to get target at least
seven or eight times in the first half against the
Broncos just with the amount of man that the Broncos play,
that makes a lot of sense, right, And I mean
we're talking about, Hey, put Riley Moss on him. Well,
that's certainly going to get a lot of targets, and
it's with help over obviously, obviously, but I think you're
(07:43):
actually right on that. I think that I'll understand the
situation there. You just take Devonte Smith out of the equation.
And if you can do that, if I could tell
people if DeVante Smith's going to be a net zero
when it comes to this game, it's really to come
down to aj Brown and the rest of the secondary
and then whatever they have to do against Dallas godd
and the rest of those receivers, I think you probably
take that. I think you probably overall say, okay, I
(08:06):
think you take one of their number one guys and
understand that the other guy who's already going to begging
for targets because they That's how you silence that noise
is you give him some high quality targets, you give
him some opportunities. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he
breaks the game. No, I don't think he'll break the game.
And I don't trust Jalen Hursts to actually throw him
the ball. It's a good point too on time, So
(08:28):
I think they're going to give him a lot of
targets or try to get him involved. But this is
also going to come down to Jalen Hurts. I think
Jalen Hurts. It's really weird to me. I don't know
if you find this awkward at all, but Jalen Hurts
in the playoff games, in big games, throws the ball
down the field in super accurately. The way he played
in the Super Bowl, the way he played in the
NFC Championship doesn't compare to how he plays during the
(08:48):
regular season, which is really weirder, Like when he plays
in primetime.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It doesn't really add up.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So I'm curious to see, like how he'll play, and
I question his field reading ability and if he can
really read the defense he's he's a shorter quarterback and
smaller end stature.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
But I think we'll see. I think the Broncos will have.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Some opportunities to pick the ball off because if he
hasn't heard it over yet, yeah, yeah, he's he's super
risk averse. But I think you know if aj and
you know all the media pressure which he really doesn't
really fall into But if they're trying to get him
the ball and he has to throw the ball, I
think he's gonna throw us one show up with the
(09:30):
Michigan States tough. I mean, is this You're you're trying
to send a message to me.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I know you are no To be honest, I'm not.
You know, I'm in.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
This weird spot where I want to rep more of
the teams that I played for, but I don't necessarily
always feel strong to put on Broncos gear, especially here
in Denver, Okay. And you know, my time in New
York wasn't meaningful because we sucked. My time in New
Orleans was great, but it was during COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Like, I don't want to wear Shamee's gear. I don't
have a lot of ties to New Orleans. San Francisco
was my last team. I'm not putting on that gear.
So of lately, you know, just bought a lot of
Michigan State stuff, and you know, I want to wear
rep some of the teams that I played for. I
don't always feel comfortable wearing Broncos stuff because I'm removed
I talk about the team.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I don't want to I don't want to feel like
a Homer, you know what I'm saying. No, I hear that.
I hear that.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I mean, not a lot of people get to say
I actually played for the team. And of course you
have the distinguished that of having Peyton Manning's last catch, right,
But yeah, I mean, I hear you. It looks good
on you. I just I know that we had our
little back and forth about Draymond Green, So I just
I didn't know if that this was sort of like, oh, no,
I'll wear a Golden State stuff there it is if
(10:47):
I want to do that. I mean, I played with
some great, great players, you know, when I think about
Michigan State, you know, regardless.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Of you know, my good friend and brother Draymond, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I still went there, and you know, but if I
wanted to rub it in about that, I'd wear Warrior stuff.
Because his Mischigan State career had nothing to do with
him being the first ballot Hall of Famer in the NBA. Well,
it's on the cold tales of first ballot Hall of Famer.
I mean, two Olympic medals, four championships, nine all defensive teams. Yeah,
(11:18):
some really good teams. He's played on. Yeah, it's been
a part of all of its part of Yeah, they
said they can't win, they haven't won and won't win
any championships without him. So those are of the words
of Stephen Curry and Steve Curry and all that, not
not me. But hey, I'll tell you what though, Forsworth
and I said this a long time about Draymond Green,
(11:39):
I do, Hey, we will get back to the Broncos.
Actually I have some really cool something cool and bull
nicks in a second. But they've been very good teams.
He's the engine of that team, and I do believe that,
I'd say, individually on his own accolades, if you just
sort of sectioned it off, and yeah, you talk about
the wins and the championships and the medals, all valuable, right,
(12:02):
but he's not like the star of any of those teams.
But he does impact the game. And then there's no
denying that I don't like the dirty play. I mean
that's I think there's a lot of people. Yeah, right,
if he's on your team, you probably love a little
bit of the physicality, love getting in the head of
some of the other players. I don't. I don't like
stomping on dudes on the ground and kicking other people
and the you know what, I just don't like it.
(12:23):
I don't like any of that, but you have to
sort of respect the dynasty, and it is a dynasty
of Golden State, and it doesn't happen without him, So
I have to acknowledge that. Yeah, I mean, that's yeah,
you got to acknowledge that. I think his play speaks
for himself. He's going into year fourteen so remarkable. I mean,
it's crazy you're fourteen with one team. His leadership, you know,
(12:48):
obviously there's been some moments where he's not proud of,
but his leadership and his communication is authentic communication. I
think one of the best compliments that him and I
have talked about is what Steve said, like in terms
of his mentality and compared to Michael Jordan, which I believe,
will you do anything to do to He will do
anything he has to to win a game. And you
(13:09):
know that's one. Yeah, yeah, some people question it, but
you can't question the three state championships he has. You
can't question the three Big Ten championships in two final
fours that he has, or the four NBA championships and
two Olympic medals. I mean it's almost like you're prepared
to have this conversation. I mean I get into a
lot of arguments with people about it, and you know,
(13:32):
I think, obviously our friendship is very important to me,
and like I mean, we've been knowing each other for
twenty years now, so like high school, and he's always
been firing competitive, and you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I tink it. You know, everybody respects him in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So if you don't know, I had tweeted out a
while back about Draymond Green is gonna be the one
of the most overrated Hall of Famers ever in the
history of the NBA and you saw that. So because
overrated and Hall of Fame don't go in the same sentence,
they the kind of can so like Curtis Martin, I'm sorry,
doesn't do it for me as a Hall of Famer,
I hear you.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But his his resume doesn't even compare.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's accumulation, that's his residen that's Curtis Martin's resume.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, well that's not Draymond's resume.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well, fourteen years and he's yeah, fourteen years, you know, going,
he's going in a year fourteen, so not out of
his thirteen years, he's been all defensive NBA. That's crazy,
all right, all right, I I back to the Broncos
the cap. All right, well we come back, we come back.
Bodex has a superpower. I tell you why that superpower matters,
(14:40):
specifically in this game coming up this hour, chance when
one thousand dollars coming up the next five minutes. Things
Mercedes Beens of Littleton, Mercedesoflyttleton dot Com.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
The Broncos offense has been a subject.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I mean, certainly you guys have been talking about it
over dnb are a lot of We've obviously been talking
about it over here on Kawa. There is something that
Bonnicks does though, that is, I mean, if not the best,
I think only lists here. Yeah, number one in the league.
There's stithing that Bonnicks does that this offense does that
is better than anybody else in the league. And that
is avoiding sacks. Yeah, three sacks entire season. And meanwhile,
(15:19):
the Philadelphia Eagles have only got five sacks on the season.
As good as they are upfront, and they truly are elite,
they have yet to get that part of their defense going.
We were talking about a lot about the offense and
Jalen hurts their defense has not really gotten on track
with sacks yet either. I thought this was a great
answer from Boennicks earlier today talking about avoiding sacks and
(15:42):
how he compares them to turnovers on an offense. Well,
I think we just we all do a good job.
They do a good job.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Of not letting guys run free, and then we do
a good job in protection. We do a good job
of id in guys, making sure that we've got the
right guy's block, and then at the end of the day,
if something does happen, things break down, it's my job
to make those guys miss and not have sacks. I
think sacks kill drives, and sacks statistically, when you get
(16:09):
one on a drive, your percentage of scoring goes drastically down.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So that's something that's always.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Been important for me. So it's kind of like a turnover,
you know, I hate hate sax, hate turnovers, and so
keeping us away from those is giving us the best chance.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I feel like that answer in the pre draft process
probably made Sean Payton just boost him right to the
top of the list, because you know how Sean Payton
and he talks about all the time and the pre
draft process otherwise because he was so sick of watching
Russell Wilson take all of those sacks back there and
ruin drive after drive, and especially because Russell Wilson wouldn't
get to the hot read, he wouldn't find the open
(16:47):
guy that that Sean Payton had schemed up for him
in case the blitz came from one side of the other,
and Russell just would scramble around and run backwards and
then take a sack. So I'm sure that answer right
there is everything that Sean Payton would want to hear
out of his starting quarterback. But it's a big deal.
It is really a big deal, isn't it Definitely is.
(17:08):
I think you know Bo hit it right there. When
he was talking. He talked about how it's a drive killer,
and I think I know that you know, just from
being around Peyton. And then I think I heard Peyton
say this on an interview recently, that you know, if
you take a sack on a drive, you have a
seven percent chance to score on that drive, And it's
no different to me. Then I wouldn't compare it to
(17:28):
a turn rival, but I would compare it to a penalty.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You know, when we talk about the.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Chargers game, only nine first downs for the Broncos, it's
hard to play at first and twenty. It's hard to
play at second and seventeen or third in nineteen. It's
hard to get first downs. And I think when you
get a sack and you think about a sack, if
you take a sack on first and ten, you know
you're putting yourself at first and fifteen or first and seventeen.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's just hard to get another first down right there.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And I love the fact that Bo doesn't take a
lot of sacks, and I think.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
It's going to be hard for the Philadelphia to get sacks.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Not only number one, I think the offensive line has
played really well for the most part in terms of protecting.
But then also Bo's scramble ability and he's a strong runner,
and he's very elusive in the pocket. You know, sometimes
he does these little spins in the pocket or he
finds a way to get out of a sack, and
I think that's really important. I'd love to see him
throw the ball away more or just be able to
diagnose that quicker, but I think that comes with time
(18:23):
and comes with experience, but I definitely know they probably
harp on that, and Sean definitely harps on that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'll be curious to see what Drew.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Brees, what his what was like for him playing in
this offense, and how many sacks he took, so you know,
if he looks at it like turnovers, let's stop turning
the ball over as well, you know, let's focus on that.
But I love the fact that he doesn't take sacks,
and that's one of the best ways to keep drives alive.
And ultimately, you want to end every position in a kick,
(18:51):
whether it's a punt, field goal, or touchdown. I love that,
and that's that seems like the mentality of this team
for sure. And I do want to ask you about
the chemistry with the receivers. I feel like it's getting
a little bit better, but it's tough to know sometimes
off of a blowout game like they just had with
the Bengals. We'll get to that here in a second.
But staying on the sacks thing for a second, I
(19:11):
do like his pocket mobility.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I would say that he's got a.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Very good sense of where the rush is coming from
and how to avoid it, and he tends to make
the right decision, although there are moments where he does
run up into the line almost unnecessarily.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Have you noticed that too, I have noticed that.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I've noticed that on the Troy Franklin post and in
the last game against Cincinnati, definitely on the fulle flicker,
the flee flicker to Marvin Mims. I'm really curious about
that because his arm strength doesn't seem to be lacking
at all.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
One was overthrown on the Troy Franklin.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I thought that was actually a really good ball that
Troy should have caught, and then the Marvin Mims one.
Maybe it's fifty to fifty in terms of if he
catches that or not or both put too much on it.
But yeah, he's kind of jumping into the throw, So
I don't know where that is. I think, you know,
he's super excited. I don't think he definitely didn't drink
it as much caffeine before the Cincinnati game, because he
was definitely a lot more mellow. He was definitely a
(20:04):
lot more chill than he was against the Chargers. But
I think some of these plays are just so open
where it is it's not surprising him, but he's it
obviously excites him like, oh, I got to step into this,
Like Troy's screaming down in the field and he's putting
a lot of mustard onto the ball. There's a lot
of good designs on this offense anytime you rewatch it,
(20:25):
and I imagine you was a guy that played the
wide receiver position to kind of know like, hey, we're
looking at what the defense is lined up, and we're
getting ready to call this player like I'm going to
be running wide open here, and it is up to
the quarterback at that point to get you the ball.
But we could question some of the sequencing. I think
there's some times with Sean Payton's sequencing much better obviously
(20:47):
this last week in Cincinnati, but there were times in
both the Chargers game and the Colts game they got
into these lulls where they would put themselves in really
long obviously third and long situations, but they just they
weren't really getting into rhythm. And set actually talked about
that earlier today. We'll get to that in a second,
but he I think design wise, the design of the
(21:08):
offense is very very high level stuff. Yeah, I was
giving him a lot of grief on the DMVR show
because I thought the play calling could have been better
against the Chargers, But when I actually looked back at
the film, I was like, geez, Like, some of these
players are really well designed, they're just not executed well.
There was a third and twelve against the Chargers where R. J.
(21:29):
Harvey was kind of lined up in a you know,
up back position, and they ran like a little mini
screen to him and Troutman and Troy Franklin missed the block.
But you know, little things like that, it looks like, oh,
it's just a dump off and Bows being Charlie check down,
and I was like, no, this is actually prettly well designed.
They both missed the block. The fourth and two to
(21:49):
Courland Sutton was incredible against the Chargers. The Sleeflaker designed
for on a third and nineteen. I mean, that's just incredible.
The fact that you got the defense to bite, Yeah,
on a third nineteen. Would you when you're handing it off,
I mean, I guess you're running a draw. So the
defense at that point kind of has to respect the
fact that maybe you've given up. But then they pitch
it back and I mean it's third nineteen and then
(22:10):
you're letting and It wasn't just Marvin, he was Troy.
They were both running wide open there, and you sort
of caught the defender right in between them one hundred percent.
And then his the way he called the plays against Cincinnati,
you know, the first and ten to RJ. Harvey where
it was the running back scene, Evan was the flat
route to open up the defender.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Marvin screaming down the field into RJ.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Harvey. You know, I didn't think j RJ. Probably didn't
think that he was going to be that wide open.
You could see him kind of slow down a little
bit because it was to your point, Ryan, he was like,
oh my gosh, I'm wide open, Like how do I
process this? How do I get this ball? And then
on another first and ten was is the post Detroy Franklin.
Sean knew exactly what covers he was going to get
dows up the post Detroy Franklin. I think he just
(22:52):
has to come up with that catch and make that play.
But I think Sean has been designing plays really well
and this will be the best test yet. But this
is what he gets paid for, Like these types of
games right here where you're playing against Philadelphia. Vic Fangio
somebody that you wanted to be back here in Denver
with you, Somebody that you have a tremendous amount of
respect for, who makes you play patient type of football.
(23:15):
How are you gonna call these plays? This is a
Sean Payton type of game, one hundred percent. And I'm
glad and you brought that up in the break. I'm
so glad you brought that up, Dave. And I've been
talking about the chess match between Vic and Sean and
this is like, this is pay per view, Like this
is why you watch the game is to see what
Sean Payton, who knows Vic Fangiel very well and Vic
knows Sean really well, and how they're going to combat
(23:36):
each other in a bit of a chess match. And
I can't wait to see what Shawn's got dialed up for.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And I think you said it perfectly.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
It's kind of more about the execution from the players,
way more than maybe the design of the place. The
sequencing can improved. And I do think they figured out
a couple of things against Cincinnati, and sometimes I almost
hate it, but there's no other way to describe it.
The right game. That's what Cincinnati felt like going into it. Defensively,
(24:03):
the numbers, the matchups, everything about it felt like, if
the Broncos offense can't move the ball against this defense,
then we're gonna have some questions coming after. And again
I sort of hate that because they're paid professionals too,
and it means the value of what Cincinnati does as
a pro football team. But at the same time, the
numbers were the numbers, and the matchups are what they are,
(24:23):
aren't they Yeah, one hundred percent, and you play who's
out there and regardless, like I said, I think you know,
we all understand this and everybody else understands that if
Joe Burrow had went out there and played in that game,
that defense is still the same players who would have played.
So I think they did a great job of neutralizing
Trey Henderson. I thought they attacked the matchups really well.
I thought Sean his sequencing was sequencing when it comes
(24:47):
to the play calling was better. Was better.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And also I think.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Well, actually I can't really say this because there were
still a lot of penalties, a lot of penalties, but
you know, I think they did.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
They had more drives.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Where there was there wasn't a lot of penalties, but
you know, it's hard to get in a rhythm as
a play caller if you're playing behind the sticks all
the time.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And I think JK.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Dobbins in the running game did a great job of
four to five to six yards to carry, you know,
second and short, third and short. You know, I think
all of those touchdowns were on third downs. But it's
like third and two, third and five, third and goal.
You can win games like that.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
The Philadelphia Eagles, they don't play exciting football, you know,
I heard Drew Brees talk about how boring they are
in terms of football, but they get into third and
short and fourth and short and they just keep the
drive going. And then they keep the drive going. So
you know, those are some of the most important things.
And I think Sean will be hopefully in a great
rhythm in terms of play calling. But even the personnels
have come down a little bit. And Sean's thirty and
(25:45):
thirty through the first four weeks of the season. That's
his record, and then I don't know what it goes
up to October, November, December, but I think it's in
you know, seventy percent, like seventy five percent, seventy So
I think he had this huge volume of play. You know,
in the first couple of weeks, he puts a lot
on bow, he puts a lot on the receivers, different personnels,
lots on a lot on coaching, and now he has
(26:07):
the sample size of like, what do we do do
really well? And now going forward, that's what we're going
to execute on. Those are the personnels that we're going
to execute on. And also he's.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Playing the long term game.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know, I questioned r J Harvey and how much
he was playing, and he looked a little hesitant, especially
in week one. In week two, oh yeah, but the
way he looks in week four, the way he ran
his cuts, the way he caught the ball, I mean,
he showed really strong hands.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
That's going to pay off in the next four to
five to six weeks in the rest of the season.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
So Shawn's got a long term vision in place that
we can't necessarily that we don't always see, and I
think that's what you know, I think we'll continue to
see that breakdown throughout the rest of the season. The
usage of JK and RJ in that game was like
that was what we pictured in our heads right where
there would be this thunder and lightning a bit, and
Narj's going to obviously carry the ball as well. But
(26:56):
it's just you know what JK does with his physicality,
and you bring in RJ and some of the pass
catching ability that he has and some of the explosive
ability he has. That was the most exciting thing of
that game. I mean there's a lot you know, being
excited to see Bo look more confidence and you mentioned
that with his feet he looked a lot better there.
The blocking was phenomenal, but again, there isn't a lot
(27:17):
of pass rush besides Trey Hendrickson, so if you key
in on him, then you kind of feel pretty good
about that for Cincinnati, But.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
It's just it.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You still have to go out and do it, like
that's the one thing like the matchups of the matchups,
but you still have to go out there and execute.
And we even talked about this with the Eagles and
how they're having a difficult time getting sacks. Well, that
doesn't mean that they can't rack up five sacks against
you coming up on Sunday. The Eagles are a very
talented deem This is different than Cincinnati is that the
talent is absolutely there for the Eagles, but I wanted
(27:44):
to ask you real quick before we hit the break
here at the top of the ear. I wanted to
ask you about the chemistry stuff, because that was a
big discussion.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Point coming off the Chargers game.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
You're off the fingertips of a couple of receivers, obviously Cordon,
obviously Marvin. It looks like maybe you're right, maybe there
was just a lot there from a processing standpoint, but
the reality is, you got nine first downs in a game. Meanwhile,
by the way, Cincinnati only got nine first downs this
last game. But it looks way better for the Broncos.
(28:12):
So take that away from whatever you want. But I'm
just saying like, there there seems to be some moments
still in the first month, maybe excluding the Cincinnati game,
where things are not quite as as clean as you
think for a team with a lot of the same
returning players.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Comes down to rhythm and timing. I also think it
comes down to personnel and how these things are being
being repped throughout practice. It's hard to sometimes simulate that
speed and are the receivers running as fast as they
would be in practice or in the game as they
are in practice. So I think you know, you just
have that experience. I think him and Courtland have that chemistry.
(28:51):
I think him and Troy are picking it up back
off of their their organ days. I think they're starting
to find their rhythm. I think he's found a pretty
good rhythm with with Marvin and Mems. But I think
it takes time, and I think you learned that throughout
the season. You know, Peyton was really big on throwing
to those receivers a lot in practice. I'm not I
don't know how the Broncos practice their plays, but I'll
(29:12):
never forget. One time was this is my rookie year
and DT was tired, and you know, we were getting
ready to I think we're doing like routes on air.
And I stood up and it was time for Peyton
to throw me to the ball and He's told me
a step right on back the man, you will get
up here. I'm not throwing a Vinnie on Sunday. And
I was like, I got to make the team next year.
So you know, I think little things like that. I
think you know Bo will he will continue to get
(29:34):
better in his rhythm and his timing will get better.
He still puts a lot of heat on the ball,
which you know means I don't know how he's seeing
certain things. But when you look at the veteran quarterbacks,
the Drew Brees is the Peyton Mannings of Tom Brady's.
They know how to put touch on that ball. So
it's a catch and run ball, catch and run opportunity.
I think Bow will get that over time.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So I think it's what you worry about with him.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Nope, I don't worry about I don't worry about much
from the quarterback position or just him overall, because Sean
is architecting this whole thing, and I think as long
as they are in partnership long term, this is going
to look exactly how you wanted to look. I was
looking at Drew Brees's second year numbers with Sean Payton.
Twenty eight touchdowns, eighteen interceptions, you know, and this is
(30:20):
one of the best the first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks.
So you take that, you know, going into year two,
I think, you know, Bo's definitely on track to have
more touchdowns this year. I think same amount of turnovers
here at the four game mark. Last year he had
four interceptions. He's got four interceptions now, but I think
he has nine total touchdowns this year instead of two.
So he's progressing in the right way, and you know
(30:42):
this is the long term play.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I think.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
You know, Sean put a lot out there talking about
super Bowl and top four, top five quarterback. Do I
think he gets a top four, top five quarterback? I
don't know. That's a little hard to say. You know,
mahomes in this division, you got Alan Lamar Jackson. You
know Joe Burrow when he's healthy.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
That's a different conversation.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Really yeah, not there, huh he I mean he's got
that ability. But I mean if you're never on the field,
I don't know how you could be a top five quarterback.
Is this the first time that people have started to
say that more about Joe Burrow and top five if healthy?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
You have to say that every year for you? Yeah,
you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I mean, coming off of last year, he was the
best quarterback in the league, or at least arguably right.
I mean, Josh Allen won the award. Lamar probably should
have won the award. But then Joe Burrow, if he
was on a winning team, if they didn't have the
defense that they had, Joe Burrow played as good as
anybody that's what Dak Prescott is.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Doing this year accumulating.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah. I mean, Dak Prescot has probably forty touchdowns this year,
forty five. He'll leave the league in passing, Yeah, because
that defense isn't stopping anybody. So I think bo Is,
you know, his trajectory is right there. I think my favorite,
one of my favorite moments from the Cincinnati game is
Troy doesn't come down with that post ball and conversation
on the sideline. That's the next step for them, That's
(32:02):
the next step for him as a franchise. QB is like, oh,
come on, man, Like I feel like, hey, Troy number one,
I need you. But it looks like it was more
of a casual conversation like, hey man, you don't want
to add to the stats, like and you like that
type of conversation, especially for two people who know each
other really well.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And I think that chemistry is going to get even better.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
That's my favorite duo right now, right now, even though
Courtland is, you know, playing it extremely well, and his
level in attention to detail in terms of his spacing
and routes is on another level. You can see his
veteran presence, but I'm super excited about the Troy Franklin
Bo Nick's connection, the Duck dynasty connection right there, just
(32:42):
based off I mean, Troy's athletic ability is crazy. And
then I saw there was that third down at the
end of the third quarter, or maybe it's the first
down play where Bo does the RPO and throws this
to Troy and Troy gets the first down. But the
way he exploded up the field, and I was like,
this could look this could be really nice, this could
be really scary, just of I mean, not necessarily golf
and Jamis and Williams, but that type of playmaking ability. Yeah,
(33:06):
Jameis Williams got another level of speed, but Troy's almost
there and at home run making ability. He's explosive and
boy by that pass and I know exactly what you're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
What puts the heat on it? Yeah, OK.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I thought about that A couple of those passes, I
mean the touchdown to Corlin Sutton that was one where
he rifled it in there, and then there was another
pass to Troy Franklin over the middle on it was
either a bender or I think maybe a basic that
there was a sixteen deep dig route that cheap motion
deep dig round.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
That was But those throws right there shows me that
he is the guy.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
That's a hard throw.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
That's a hard throw for any quarterback and for you
to make a throw in a cheap motion. Great route
by Troy. And then Troy also got negative out of
the break. You know, for people who are listening right now,
Troy comes and he runs this route straight up the
field and he breaks in. But he breaks in he
plays flat down on the line, which makes it an
easier throw for the quarterback. It wasn't drifting, Yeah, it
(34:04):
wasn't drifting up the field. Keeps him out of the hospital.
And Troy was able to make that three but throw
or catch, he ran through that ball. That's a confident catch.
It's a heart that's a hard you know, I would
drift up the field because you know that that ball
kind of scared me a little bit, especially because're running
in at it. Of those great players, the Odell Beckhams
that I've played with, the Sterling Shepherds that I played with,
DT caught a lot of end routes.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
They would run through that, and that's a confidence thing.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
And you could see that game Troy had a couple
of drops, he still caught the ball.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
With his hands and very confident. Awesome Benny Fowler in
the studio.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So we come back, we'll hear from Sean Payton on
what bo Nix likes early in Drive. So this is
a very interesting answer, so we'll get to that. Also,
do we overreact a little bit too much?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Too much?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
And I acknowledge sometimes I think we in sports talk
radio do this as well to what happens in the
first month of the season.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I want to get to you that coming up next
Ryan Edward's Betty Fower and studio with us until six
o'clock five six six nine zeros or Kawai common Spirit
health text line. If you want to interact with us,
and uh, yeah, I gotta I gotta ask you about
AJ Brown, man, I gotta ask you about the Diva
wide receiver and all that I mean because again you
and I say this affectionately. I've never seen you interviewing
(00:21):
you in the locker room or otherwise as it a
Diva wide receiver, but you played the position and you
know plenty of them. Does AJ Brown have a point though?
Absolutely well? Number one, I could never be a Diva receiver.
I was undrafted, So it doesn't work to doesn't work
well for you as an undrafted receiver to demand or
(00:41):
ask for anything. Well, Ross Smith was an undrafted guy
and he probably didn't ask for much. I don't think
he ever asked. I mean, you know, Rod's very mild
mannered guy.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
One of the.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Greatest Broncos receivers ever, one of the greatest receivers ever
in the league period. He's more of a work ethic guy. Yeah,
he's a work ethic but you know he got than that.
But he also played with l Way. He played with
quarterbacks that threw the ball down the field. It's Hall
of famers. Aj Brown, I understand where he's coming from,
and I'm one thousand percent on his side in terms
(01:12):
of how he feels, the way he's responding to things,
the cryptic tweets, the messages. I'm not for that, but
being upset, you should be upset number one. I think
he's getting paid over thirty million dollars a year. That
means you're one of the top receivers in the league.
He also has the ability of a number one, and
he deserves the ball. Jalen Hurrs is getting paid fifty million.
(01:33):
Hey my man, you need to find me the ball. Like,
this is what are we doing here? He's running hitch routes,
he's running slants or go routes. There's no he's not
being moved around. He's getting targeted though. Yeah, these targets
aren't great targets. Now, if you go back to the
target tape and look at it, these are long foul balls.
I do is being thrown out of bounds. So it
looks like, hey, well we threw you the ball eight
(01:54):
times nine targets here only four of them I could
actually catch. So yeah, I totally understand where he's coming
from because next year, the Eagles are going to ask
for him to take a pay cut based off of
his yards and productions this year, and he's going to
be upset about that because he didn't really have any opportunities.
And you know, receivers they want the ball because he
(02:14):
can have that type of effect on the game when
he does get the ball. His catch and run opportunity
is very much like Terrell Owens, somebody who wanted the
ball a lot. And there I play with receivers who
have this dynamic ability. Damarius Thomas like, if you throwing
the ball, you never know what could happen, an Odell Beckham,
you throw on the ball, you never know what could happen.
I played with Michael Thomas in New Orleans. These types
(02:34):
of these guys can take over games. And right now
they're not running the ball, well, well, they're not doing
anything really really well on offense. I mean they're thirty
first in passing. I mean that's remarkable. Thirty first and
passing with two receivers who could be number ones on
most NFL team. So that's say, if a j Brown
came here. Oh as great as Courtland isn't as great
as he's playing. AJ Brown's number one. There's like twenty
(02:57):
teams that he'd be a number one, and maybe even more.
I'm just saying, like, just off the top of my head,
I would say, yeah, I mean, you just go down
the list of me tonight. You obviously got the Rams,
They've got a couple of number ones as well, but
the forty nine ers, I mean, yeah, he'd be the
number one.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
He'd be easily number one. Yeah, So I think you know.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
That's where AJ is and I totally understand it because look,
he's got one more contract, maybe he's got a couple
more years left, and these are your max earning years.
Like he'll never in his life ever make thirty five
million dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I don't care. You have to be a public company
CEO to make that type of money.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Which he's not. That's not his trajectory of his life.
So ma's earning potential in years. Hey man, I need
the ball and.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Number one I can have that type of effect.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So but let me let me ask you like this,
because you and I both know that from a fan base,
especially for a four and oh team, there's probably gonna
be like, what, dude, what are you doing? Like your
team is winning you guys, yeah, you're you're not reaching
your full potential. But we know if that's looking like
it's week four, give it some time. There are other
teams around the league, and I'm I'm just more of
(04:00):
a devil's advocate, like a fan perspective. There are teams
around the league that are struggling way worse than the Eagles,
not only in the win and loss column, but also offensively.
And so it feels like the defending Super Bowl champions
who have started out four and know that, no, they
really have that in their back pocket. It's eventually going
to get there. It just feels like he should be
(04:22):
giving this some time instead of putting out cryptic tweets
in the midst of a winning streak.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What if winning doesn't mean anything to me anymore? Oh,
you got to be kidding me.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I mean, did you see his posts after they won
the super Bowl and talked and he talked about, Wow,
we won the super Bowl and this is not this
is not what I thought it would be, and how
he's going to go back to work.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I do remember that.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, you know, so maybe winning isn't everything to him.
And I know plenty of players. I've played with plenty
of players like you know, after you win the Super Bowl,
it's more about how much money you can make and leg.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, legacy things.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Now you're playing for Hall of Fame, you're not necessarily
playing for Oh, let's go win another super Bowl like
the Tom Brady's and the Patriots. Those are anomalies where
people bought in. But after those people, you know, people
like Ammadella would go somewhere else to get more money
and then they end up coming back. So, yeah, who
said aj Brown actually wants to win championships? I mean,
it's a fair point. You're right, and there's an assumption
(05:17):
and that most people, fans or otherwise think winning is
the most important thing in the world. But in the
reality is because of the business of the league, there's
a lot more to it, and especially the individual accolades
and your placement within those individual accolades. We talk about
it in terms of quarterbacks all the time, right about, Hey,
is this guy a Hall of Famer? This guy a
Hall of Famer? And those are individual stats. Sometimes it's
(05:37):
time to the t team's success, but most of them
it's because quarterbacks impacted so much. When you're a wide
receiver and you're a dependent position, it is a little
bit of a different mindset and you do have to
be a bit selfish. So I understand your perspective, but
you and your perspective is a wide receiver. Rod Smith
and his perspective a wide receiver. I think that sometimes
(05:58):
filters into fans perspective on it, because then fans are like, well,
I want a Rod Smith, I want a Betty Fowler.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I want guys like Cortland.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Sutton who are out there blocking their ass off when
they know that it will impact and help the team
win games, which should be the most important thing. Yeah, well,
I mean, you know, I love that perspective, and I
love you know, fans who think about this, But then
you got to put yourself in that situation. And if
you know you're that talented where you could take over
a game and you're not getting the ball, that's a
(06:27):
real problem. And you know, Jalen Hurts isn't He's not
a rookie, he's not in his first or second year.
This is a veteran quarterback. This is a Super Bowl
winning quarterback. We've gone to the Super Bowl twice. You
need to be able to read the defense, not only
that the offensive coordinator. Most importantly, how are you not
moving me around? How are you not finding ways to
get me open? When you look at the Kevin o'connells,
we look at the Kyle shanahan's, we look at the
(06:49):
Sean Payton's of the world. They find a way to
get their star receivers and their best players the ball
in space. Everybody knows that Justin Jefferson is going to
get the ball, they find a different.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Way to move him around.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Why is aj Brown lined up outside the numbers every play?
That doesn't make any sense. So I think that is
where his frustration is coming from. I think Kellen Moore
had to figure that out last year, found different ways
to get him in the rock. He doesn't throw him screen,
get him a handoff, give him a reverse. You got
to get this guy going and involved. And I think,
I mean, the Broncos are getting ready to see it.
(07:23):
But I think he Dave and I got a little
bet Day thinks he's going to get target at least
seven or eight times in the first half against the
Broncos just with the amount of man that the Broncos play,
that makes a lot of sense, right, And I mean
we're talking about, Hey, put Riley Moss on him. Well,
that's certainly going to get a lot of targets, and
it's with help over obviously, obviously, but I think you're
(07:43):
actually right on that. I think that I'll understand the
situation there. You just take Devonte Smith out of the equation.
And if you can do that, if I could tell
people if DeVante Smith's going to be a net zero
when it comes to this game, it's really to come
down to aj Brown and the rest of the secondary
and then whatever they have to do against Dallas godd
and the rest of those receivers, I think you probably
take that. I think you probably overall say, okay, I
(08:06):
think you take one of their number one guys and
understand that the other guy who's already going to begging
for targets because they That's how you silence that noise
is you give him some high quality targets, you give
him some opportunities. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he
breaks the game. No, I don't think he'll break the game.
And I don't trust Jalen Hursts to actually throw him
the ball. It's a good point too on time, So
(08:28):
I think they're going to give him a lot of
targets or try to get him involved. But this is
also going to come down to Jalen Hurts. I think
Jalen Hurts. It's really weird to me. I don't know
if you find this awkward at all, but Jalen Hurts
in the playoff games, in big games, throws the ball
down the field in super accurately. The way he played
in the Super Bowl, the way he played in the
NFC Championship doesn't compare to how he plays during the
(08:48):
regular season, which is really weirder, Like when he plays
in primetime.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It doesn't really add up.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So I'm curious to see, like how he'll play, and
I question his field reading ability and if he can
really read the defense he's he's a shorter quarterback and
smaller end stature.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
But I think we'll see. I think the Broncos will have.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Some opportunities to pick the ball off because if he
hasn't heard it over yet, yeah, yeah, he's he's super
risk averse. But I think you know if aj and
you know all the media pressure which he really doesn't
really fall into But if they're trying to get him
the ball and he has to throw the ball, I
think he's gonna throw us one show up with the
(09:30):
Michigan States tough. I mean, is this You're you're trying
to send a message to me.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I know you are no To be honest, I'm not.
You know, I'm in.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
This weird spot where I want to rep more of
the teams that I played for, but I don't necessarily
always feel strong to put on Broncos gear, especially here
in Denver, Okay. And you know, my time in New
York wasn't meaningful because we sucked. My time in New
Orleans was great, but it was during COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Like, I don't want to wear Shamee's gear. I don't
have a lot of ties to New Orleans. San Francisco
was my last team. I'm not putting on that gear.
So of lately, you know, just bought a lot of
Michigan State stuff, and you know, I want to wear
rep some of the teams that I played for. I
don't always feel comfortable wearing Broncos stuff because I'm removed
I talk about the team.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I don't want to I don't want to feel like
a Homer, you know what I'm saying. No, I hear that.
I hear that.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I mean, not a lot of people get to say
I actually played for the team. And of course you
have the distinguished that of having Peyton Manning's last catch, right,
But yeah, I mean, I hear you. It looks good
on you. I just I know that we had our
little back and forth about Draymond Green, So I just
I didn't know if that this was sort of like, oh, no,
I'll wear a Golden State stuff there it is if
(10:47):
I want to do that. I mean, I played with
some great, great players, you know, when I think about
Michigan State, you know, regardless.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Of you know, my good friend and brother Draymond, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I still went there, and you know, but if I
wanted to rub it in about that, I'd wear Warrior stuff.
Because his Mischigan State career had nothing to do with
him being the first ballot Hall of Famer in the NBA. Well,
it's on the cold tales of first ballot Hall of Famer.
I mean, two Olympic medals, four championships, nine all defensive teams. Yeah,
(11:18):
some really good teams. He's played on. Yeah, it's been
a part of all of its part of Yeah, they
said they can't win, they haven't won and won't win
any championships without him. So those are of the words
of Stephen Curry and Steve Curry and all that, not
not me. But hey, I'll tell you what though, Forsworth
and I said this a long time about Draymond Green,
(11:39):
I do, Hey, we will get back to the Broncos.
Actually I have some really cool something cool and bull
nicks in a second. But they've been very good teams.
He's the engine of that team, and I do believe that,
I'd say, individually on his own accolades, if you just
sort of sectioned it off, and yeah, you talk about
the wins and the championships and the medals, all valuable, right,
(12:02):
but he's not like the star of any of those teams.
But he does impact the game. And then there's no
denying that I don't like the dirty play. I mean
that's I think there's a lot of people. Yeah, right,
if he's on your team, you probably love a little
bit of the physicality, love getting in the head of
some of the other players. I don't. I don't like
stomping on dudes on the ground and kicking other people
and the you know what, I just don't like it.
(12:23):
I don't like any of that, but you have to
sort of respect the dynasty, and it is a dynasty
of Golden State, and it doesn't happen without him, So
I have to acknowledge that. Yeah, I mean, that's yeah,
you got to acknowledge that. I think his play speaks
for himself. He's going into year fourteen so remarkable. I mean,
it's crazy you're fourteen with one team. His leadership, you know,
(12:48):
obviously there's been some moments where he's not proud of,
but his leadership and his communication is authentic communication. I
think one of the best compliments that him and I
have talked about is what Steve said, like in terms
of his mentality and compared to Michael Jordan, which I believe,
will you do anything to do to He will do
anything he has to to win a game. And you
(13:09):
know that's one. Yeah, yeah, some people question it, but
you can't question the three state championships he has. You
can't question the three Big Ten championships in two final
fours that he has, or the four NBA championships and
two Olympic medals. I mean it's almost like you're prepared
to have this conversation. I mean I get into a
lot of arguments with people about it, and you know,
(13:32):
I think, obviously our friendship is very important to me,
and like I mean, we've been knowing each other for
twenty years now, so like high school, and he's always
been firing competitive, and you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I tink it. You know, everybody respects him in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So if you don't know, I had tweeted out a
while back about Draymond Green is gonna be the one
of the most overrated Hall of Famers ever in the
history of the NBA and you saw that. So because
overrated and Hall of Fame don't go in the same sentence,
they the kind of can so like Curtis Martin, I'm sorry,
doesn't do it for me as a Hall of Famer,
I hear you.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
But his his resume doesn't even compare.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's accumulation, that's his residen that's Curtis Martin's resume.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, well that's not Draymond's resume.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well, fourteen years and he's yeah, fourteen years, you know, going,
he's going in a year fourteen, so not out of
his thirteen years, he's been all defensive NBA. That's crazy,
all right, all right, I I back to the Broncos
the cap. All right, well we come back, we come back.
Bodex has a superpower. I tell you why that superpower matters,
(14:40):
specifically in this game coming up this hour, chance when
one thousand dollars coming up the next five minutes. Things
Mercedes Beens of Littleton, Mercedesoflyttleton dot Com.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
The Broncos offense has been a subject.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I mean, certainly you guys have been talking about it
over dnb are a lot of We've obviously been talking
about it over here on Kawa. There is something that
Bonnicks does though, that is, I mean, if not the best,
I think only lists here. Yeah, number one in the league.
There's stithing that Bonnicks does that this offense does that
is better than anybody else in the league. And that
is avoiding sacks. Yeah, three sacks entire season. And meanwhile,
(15:19):
the Philadelphia Eagles have only got five sacks on the season.
As good as they are upfront, and they truly are elite,
they have yet to get that part of their defense going.
We were talking about a lot about the offense and
Jalen hurts their defense has not really gotten on track
with sacks yet either. I thought this was a great
answer from Boennicks earlier today talking about avoiding sacks and
(15:42):
how he compares them to turnovers on an offense. Well,
I think we just we all do a good job.
They do a good job.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Of not letting guys run free, and then we do
a good job in protection. We do a good job
of id in guys, making sure that we've got the
right guy's block, and then at the end of the day,
if something does happen, things break down, it's my job
to make those guys miss and not have sacks. I
think sacks kill drives, and sacks statistically, when you get
(16:09):
one on a drive, your percentage of scoring goes drastically down.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So that's something that's always.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Been important for me. So it's kind of like a turnover,
you know, I hate hate sax, hate turnovers, and so
keeping us away from those is giving us the best chance.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I feel like that answer in the pre draft process
probably made Sean Payton just boost him right to the
top of the list, because you know how Sean Payton
and he talks about all the time and the pre
draft process otherwise because he was so sick of watching
Russell Wilson take all of those sacks back there and
ruin drive after drive, and especially because Russell Wilson wouldn't
get to the hot read, he wouldn't find the open
(16:47):
guy that that Sean Payton had schemed up for him
in case the blitz came from one side of the other,
and Russell just would scramble around and run backwards and
then take a sack. So I'm sure that answer right
there is everything that Sean Payton would want to hear
out of his starting quarterback. But it's a big deal.
It is really a big deal, isn't it Definitely is.
(17:08):
I think you know Bo hit it right there. When
he was talking. He talked about how it's a drive killer,
and I think I know that you know, just from
being around Peyton. And then I think I heard Peyton
say this on an interview recently, that you know, if
you take a sack on a drive, you have a
seven percent chance to score on that drive, And it's
no different to me. Then I wouldn't compare it to
(17:28):
a turn rival, but I would compare it to a penalty.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
You know, when we talk about the.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Chargers game, only nine first downs for the Broncos, it's
hard to play at first and twenty. It's hard to
play at second and seventeen or third in nineteen. It's
hard to get first downs. And I think when you
get a sack and you think about a sack, if
you take a sack on first and ten, you know
you're putting yourself at first and fifteen or first and seventeen.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's just hard to get another first down right there.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And I love the fact that Bo doesn't take a
lot of sacks, and I think.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
It's going to be hard for the Philadelphia to get sacks.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Not only number one, I think the offensive line has
played really well for the most part in terms of protecting.
But then also Bo's scramble ability and he's a strong runner,
and he's very elusive in the pocket. You know, sometimes
he does these little spins in the pocket or he
finds a way to get out of a sack, and
I think that's really important. I'd love to see him
throw the ball away more or just be able to
diagnose that quicker, but I think that comes with time
(18:23):
and comes with experience, but I definitely know they probably
harp on that, and Sean definitely harps on that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'll be curious to see what Drew.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Brees, what his what was like for him playing in
this offense, and how many sacks he took, so you know,
if he looks at it like turnovers, let's stop turning
the ball over as well, you know, let's focus on that.
But I love the fact that he doesn't take sacks,
and that's one of the best ways to keep drives alive.
And ultimately, you want to end every position in a kick,
(18:51):
whether it's a punt, field goal, or touchdown. I love that,
and that's that seems like the mentality of this team
for sure. And I do want to ask you about
the chemistry with the receivers. I feel like it's getting
a little bit better, but it's tough to know sometimes
off of a blowout game like they just had with
the Bengals. We'll get to that here in a second.
But staying on the sacks thing for a second, I
(19:11):
do like his pocket mobility.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I would say that he's got a.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Very good sense of where the rush is coming from
and how to avoid it, and he tends to make
the right decision, although there are moments where he does
run up into the line almost unnecessarily.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Have you noticed that too, I have noticed that.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I've noticed that on the Troy Franklin post and in
the last game against Cincinnati, definitely on the fulle flicker,
the flee flicker to Marvin Mims. I'm really curious about
that because his arm strength doesn't seem to be lacking
at all.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
One was overthrown on the Troy Franklin.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I thought that was actually a really good ball that
Troy should have caught, and then the Marvin Mims one.
Maybe it's fifty to fifty in terms of if he
catches that or not or both put too much on it.
But yeah, he's kind of jumping into the throw, So
I don't know where that is. I think, you know,
he's super excited. I don't think he definitely didn't drink
it as much caffeine before the Cincinnati game, because he
was definitely a lot more mellow. He was definitely a
(20:04):
lot more chill than he was against the Chargers. But
I think some of these plays are just so open
where it is it's not surprising him, but he's it
obviously excites him like, oh, I got to step into this,
Like Troy's screaming down in the field and he's putting
a lot of mustard onto the ball. There's a lot
of good designs on this offense anytime you rewatch it,
(20:25):
and I imagine you was a guy that played the
wide receiver position to kind of know like, hey, we're
looking at what the defense is lined up, and we're
getting ready to call this player like I'm going to
be running wide open here, and it is up to
the quarterback at that point to get you the ball.
But we could question some of the sequencing. I think
there's some times with Sean Payton's sequencing much better obviously
(20:47):
this last week in Cincinnati, but there were times in
both the Chargers game and the Colts game they got
into these lulls where they would put themselves in really
long obviously third and long situations, but they just they
weren't really getting into rhythm. And set actually talked about
that earlier today. We'll get to that in a second,
but he I think design wise, the design of the
(21:08):
offense is very very high level stuff. Yeah, I was
giving him a lot of grief on the DMVR show
because I thought the play calling could have been better
against the Chargers, But when I actually looked back at
the film, I was like, geez, Like, some of these
players are really well designed, they're just not executed well.
There was a third and twelve against the Chargers where R. J.
(21:29):
Harvey was kind of lined up in a you know,
up back position, and they ran like a little mini
screen to him and Troutman and Troy Franklin missed the block.
But you know, little things like that, it looks like, oh,
it's just a dump off and Bows being Charlie check down,
and I was like, no, this is actually prettly well designed.
They both missed the block. The fourth and two to
(21:49):
Courland Sutton was incredible against the Chargers. The Sleeflaker designed
for on a third and nineteen. I mean, that's just incredible.
The fact that you got the defense to bite, Yeah,
on a third nineteen. Would you when you're handing it off,
I mean, I guess you're running a draw. So the
defense at that point kind of has to respect the
fact that maybe you've given up. But then they pitch
it back and I mean it's third nineteen and then
(22:10):
you're letting and It wasn't just Marvin, he was Troy.
They were both running wide open there, and you sort
of caught the defender right in between them one hundred percent.
And then his the way he called the plays against Cincinnati,
you know, the first and ten to RJ. Harvey where
it was the running back scene, Evan was the flat
route to open up the defender.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Marvin screaming down the field into RJ.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Harvey. You know, I didn't think j RJ. Probably didn't
think that he was going to be that wide open.
You could see him kind of slow down a little
bit because it was to your point, Ryan, he was like,
oh my gosh, I'm wide open, Like how do I
process this? How do I get this ball? And then
on another first and ten was is the post Detroy Franklin.
Sean knew exactly what covers he was going to get
dows up the post Detroy Franklin. I think he just
(22:52):
has to come up with that catch and make that play.
But I think Sean has been designing plays really well
and this will be the best test yet. But this
is what he gets paid for, Like these types of
games right here where you're playing against Philadelphia. Vic Fangio
somebody that you wanted to be back here in Denver
with you, Somebody that you have a tremendous amount of
respect for, who makes you play patient type of football.
(23:15):
How are you gonna call these plays? This is a
Sean Payton type of game, one hundred percent. And I'm
glad and you brought that up in the break. I'm
so glad you brought that up, Dave. And I've been
talking about the chess match between Vic and Sean and
this is like, this is pay per view, Like this
is why you watch the game is to see what
Sean Payton, who knows Vic Fangiel very well and Vic
knows Sean really well, and how they're going to combat
(23:36):
each other in a bit of a chess match. And
I can't wait to see what Shawn's got dialed up for.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And I think you said it perfectly.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
It's kind of more about the execution from the players,
way more than maybe the design of the place. The
sequencing can improved. And I do think they figured out
a couple of things against Cincinnati, and sometimes I almost
hate it, but there's no other way to describe it.
The right game. That's what Cincinnati felt like going into it. Defensively,
(24:03):
the numbers, the matchups, everything about it felt like, if
the Broncos offense can't move the ball against this defense,
then we're gonna have some questions coming after. And again
I sort of hate that because they're paid professionals too,
and it means the value of what Cincinnati does as
a pro football team. But at the same time, the
numbers were the numbers, and the matchups are what they are,
(24:23):
aren't they Yeah, one hundred percent, and you play who's
out there and regardless, like I said, I think you know,
we all understand this and everybody else understands that if
Joe Burrow had went out there and played in that game,
that defense is still the same players who would have played.
So I think they did a great job of neutralizing
Trey Henderson. I thought they attacked the matchups really well.
I thought Sean his sequencing was sequencing when it comes
(24:47):
to the play calling was better. Was better.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And also I think.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Well, actually I can't really say this because there were
still a lot of penalties, a lot of penalties, but
you know, I think they did.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
They had more drives.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Where there was there wasn't a lot of penalties, but
you know, it's hard to get in a rhythm as
a play caller if you're playing behind the sticks all
the time.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And I think JK.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Dobbins in the running game did a great job of
four to five to six yards to carry, you know,
second and short, third and short. You know, I think
all of those touchdowns were on third downs. But it's
like third and two, third and five, third and goal.
You can win games like that.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
The Philadelphia Eagles, they don't play exciting football, you know,
I heard Drew Brees talk about how boring they are
in terms of football, but they get into third and
short and fourth and short and they just keep the
drive going. And then they keep the drive going. So
you know, those are some of the most important things.
And I think Sean will be hopefully in a great
rhythm in terms of play calling. But even the personnels
have come down a little bit. And Sean's thirty and
(25:45):
thirty through the first four weeks of the season. That's
his record, and then I don't know what it goes
up to October, November, December, but I think it's in
you know, seventy percent, like seventy five percent, seventy So
I think he had this huge volume of play. You know,
in the first couple of weeks, he puts a lot
on bow, he puts a lot on the receivers, different personnels,
lots on a lot on coaching, and now he has
(26:07):
the sample size of like, what do we do do
really well? And now going forward, that's what we're going
to execute on. Those are the personnels that we're going
to execute on. And also he's.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Playing the long term game.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know, I questioned r J Harvey and how much
he was playing, and he looked a little hesitant, especially
in week one. In week two, oh yeah, but the
way he looks in week four, the way he ran
his cuts, the way he caught the ball, I mean,
he showed really strong hands.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
That's going to pay off in the next four to
five to six weeks in the rest of the season.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
So Shawn's got a long term vision in place that
we can't necessarily that we don't always see, and I
think that's what you know, I think we'll continue to
see that breakdown throughout the rest of the season. The
usage of JK and RJ in that game was like
that was what we pictured in our heads right where
there would be this thunder and lightning a bit, and
Narj's going to obviously carry the ball as well. But
(26:56):
it's just you know what JK does with his physicality,
and you bring in RJ and some of the pass
catching ability that he has and some of the explosive
ability he has. That was the most exciting thing of
that game. I mean there's a lot you know, being
excited to see Bo look more confidence and you mentioned
that with his feet he looked a lot better there.
The blocking was phenomenal, but again, there isn't a lot
(27:17):
of pass rush besides Trey Hendrickson, so if you key
in on him, then you kind of feel pretty good
about that for Cincinnati, But.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
It's just it.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You still have to go out and do it, like
that's the one thing like the matchups of the matchups,
but you still have to go out there and execute.
And we even talked about this with the Eagles and
how they're having a difficult time getting sacks. Well, that
doesn't mean that they can't rack up five sacks against
you coming up on Sunday. The Eagles are a very
talented deem This is different than Cincinnati is that the
talent is absolutely there for the Eagles, but I wanted
(27:44):
to ask you real quick before we hit the break
here at the top of the ear. I wanted to
ask you about the chemistry stuff, because that was a
big discussion.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Point coming off the Chargers game.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
You're off the fingertips of a couple of receivers, obviously Cordon,
obviously Marvin. It looks like maybe you're right, maybe there
was just a lot there from a processing standpoint, but
the reality is, you got nine first downs in a game. Meanwhile,
by the way, Cincinnati only got nine first downs this
last game. But it looks way better for the Broncos.
(28:12):
So take that away from whatever you want. But I'm
just saying like, there there seems to be some moments
still in the first month, maybe excluding the Cincinnati game,
where things are not quite as as clean as you
think for a team with a lot of the same
returning players.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Comes down to rhythm and timing. I also think it
comes down to personnel and how these things are being
being repped throughout practice. It's hard to sometimes simulate that
speed and are the receivers running as fast as they
would be in practice or in the game as they
are in practice. So I think you know, you just
have that experience. I think him and Courtland have that chemistry.
(28:51):
I think him and Troy are picking it up back
off of their their organ days. I think they're starting
to find their rhythm. I think he's found a pretty
good rhythm with with Marvin and Mems. But I think
it takes time, and I think you learned that throughout
the season. You know, Peyton was really big on throwing
to those receivers a lot in practice. I'm not I
don't know how the Broncos practice their plays, but I'll
(29:12):
never forget. One time was this is my rookie year
and DT was tired, and you know, we were getting
ready to I think we're doing like routes on air.
And I stood up and it was time for Peyton
to throw me to the ball and He's told me
a step right on back the man, you will get
up here. I'm not throwing a Vinnie on Sunday. And
I was like, I got to make the team next year.
So you know, I think little things like that. I
think you know Bo will he will continue to get
(29:34):
better in his rhythm and his timing will get better.
He still puts a lot of heat on the ball,
which you know means I don't know how he's seeing
certain things. But when you look at the veteran quarterbacks,
the Drew Brees is the Peyton Mannings of Tom Brady's.
They know how to put touch on that ball. So
it's a catch and run ball, catch and run opportunity.
I think Bow will get that over time.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So I think it's what you worry about with him.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Nope, I don't worry about I don't worry about much
from the quarterback position or just him overall, because Sean
is architecting this whole thing, and I think as long
as they are in partnership long term, this is going
to look exactly how you wanted to look. I was
looking at Drew Brees's second year numbers with Sean Payton.
Twenty eight touchdowns, eighteen interceptions, you know, and this is
(30:20):
one of the best the first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks.
So you take that, you know, going into year two,
I think, you know, Bo's definitely on track to have
more touchdowns this year. I think same amount of turnovers
here at the four game mark. Last year he had
four interceptions. He's got four interceptions now, but I think
he has nine total touchdowns this year instead of two.
So he's progressing in the right way, and you know
(30:42):
this is the long term play.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I think.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
You know, Sean put a lot out there talking about
super Bowl and top four, top five quarterback. Do I
think he gets a top four, top five quarterback? I
don't know. That's a little hard to say. You know,
mahomes in this division, you got Alan Lamar Jackson. You
know Joe Burrow when he's healthy.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
That's a different conversation.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Really yeah, not there, huh he I mean he's got
that ability. But I mean if you're never on the field,
I don't know how you could be a top five quarterback.
Is this the first time that people have started to
say that more about Joe Burrow and top five if healthy?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
You have to say that every year for you? Yeah,
you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I mean, coming off of last year, he was the
best quarterback in the league, or at least arguably right.
I mean, Josh Allen won the award. Lamar probably should
have won the award. But then Joe Burrow, if he
was on a winning team, if they didn't have the
defense that they had, Joe Burrow played as good as
anybody that's what Dak Prescott is.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Doing this year accumulating.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah. I mean, Dak Prescot has probably forty touchdowns this year,
forty five. He'll leave the league in passing, Yeah, because
that defense isn't stopping anybody. So I think bo Is,
you know, his trajectory is right there. I think my favorite,
one of my favorite moments from the Cincinnati game is
Troy doesn't come down with that post ball and conversation
on the sideline. That's the next step for them, That's
(32:02):
the next step for him as a franchise. QB is like, oh,
come on, man, Like I feel like, hey, Troy number one,
I need you. But it looks like it was more
of a casual conversation like, hey man, you don't want
to add to the stats, like and you like that
type of conversation, especially for two people who know each
other really well.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And I think that chemistry is going to get even better.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
That's my favorite duo right now, right now, even though
Courtland is, you know, playing it extremely well, and his
level in attention to detail in terms of his spacing
and routes is on another level. You can see his
veteran presence, but I'm super excited about the Troy Franklin
Bo Nick's connection, the Duck dynasty connection right there, just
(32:42):
based off I mean, Troy's athletic ability is crazy. And
then I saw there was that third down at the
end of the third quarter, or maybe it's the first
down play where Bo does the RPO and throws this
to Troy and Troy gets the first down. But the
way he exploded up the field, and I was like,
this could look this could be really nice, this could
be really scary, just of I mean, not necessarily golf
and Jamis and Williams, but that type of playmaking ability. Yeah,
(33:06):
Jameis Williams got another level of speed, but Troy's almost
there and at home run making ability. He's explosive and
boy by that pass and I know exactly what you're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
What puts the heat on it? Yeah, OK.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I thought about that A couple of those passes, I
mean the touchdown to Corlin Sutton that was one where
he rifled it in there, and then there was another
pass to Troy Franklin over the middle on it was
either a bender or I think maybe a basic that
there was a sixteen deep dig route that cheap motion
deep dig round.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
That was But those throws right there shows me that
he is the guy.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
That's a hard throw.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
That's a hard throw for any quarterback and for you
to make a throw in a cheap motion. Great route
by Troy. And then Troy also got negative out of
the break. You know, for people who are listening right now,
Troy comes and he runs this route straight up the
field and he breaks in. But he breaks in he
plays flat down on the line, which makes it an
easier throw for the quarterback. It wasn't drifting, Yeah, it
(34:04):
wasn't drifting up the field. Keeps him out of the hospital.
And Troy was able to make that three but throw
or catch, he ran through that ball. That's a confident catch.
It's a heart that's a hard you know, I would
drift up the field because you know that that ball
kind of scared me a little bit, especially because're running
in at it. Of those great players, the Odell Beckhams
that I've played with, the Sterling Shepherds that I played with,
DT caught a lot of end routes.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
They would run through that, and that's a confidence thing.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
And you could see that game Troy had a couple
of drops, he still caught the ball.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
With his hands and very confident. Awesome Benny Fowler in
the studio.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So we come back, we'll hear from Sean Payton on
what bo Nix likes early in Drive. So this is
a very interesting answer, so we'll get to that. Also,
do we overreact a little bit too much?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Too much?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
And I acknowledge sometimes I think we in sports talk
radio do this as well to what happens in the
first month of the season.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I want to get to you that coming up next
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.