Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The health text line looking forward to chatting with the
(00:03):
Cosmo are coming up at four thirty. Really cool article
on the Broncos chase for the number one overall seed
in the AFC. We'll get to that coming up here in.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
The Super Bowl odds have not improved all that much
for the Broncos as they sit there at nine and
two with the first seed in the AFC.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
They are ninth in Super Bowl odds. I don't think
a lot of people have confidence that they're going to
keep making this fourth quarter magic thing happen once you
get into the playoffs. Say, I just I think that's
what it is God that I believe or disbelieve. I
just think that's the betting public doesn't really believe. Well,
I mean, I get it. The Chiefs have better odds.
(00:41):
They actually Chiefs, I believe, are tied.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, they are tied with the Buffalo Bills atop the
AFC as far as the best odds to win the
Super Bowl. Okay, yeah, the Chiefs, by the way, the
ninth seed right now, who are looking at teams ahead
of them that if they've lost too in Jacksonville, Buffalo
and the Chargers.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
He's could be effectively eliminated they lose the Colts.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, you're not actually eliminated, but I mean at
that point you might effectively be.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
The Rams and the Eagles right now are the betting
favored to win the Super Bowl. And again I can
kind of understand that. I think both those teams have
been playing really well. I mean the Eagles, I think
there's a lot of people that believe from a talent
perspective on the offensive side of the ball, they efinentially
figured it out. They've had They've had moments in the past,
even last year, where they had moments where you're wondering
what's going on with that offense, and then they figured
(01:27):
it out and they played great in the postseason and
they go on and win a Super Bowl. The Rams
are really the team for me, Like the Rams, they
look complete and keep coming back to the remarkable discussion
we've all had in the off season of can Matt
Stafford even survive a season with all these back injuries
and what we're saying about it.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Hey, I mean you told me during a training camp,
You're like, man, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
They are worried about his back and here he is
playing at an MVP level. They have a very good defense.
What a win they had over Seattle. I mean it
was a close game. But also Sam Darnold throwing four
interceptions doesn't.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Minimize what Stafford has to do. I mean he's only
throwing the ball. Is attempts per game is not that
high throwing the ball. They're doing really well bouncing that out,
making sure he doesn't take kids trying to.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Save the wear and tear on him.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So anyways, it's kind of remarkable here with the Broncos
when they improve from plus eighteen hundred to plus fifteen
hundred in Super Bowl odds when they beat the Kansas
City Chiefs, But that still only moved them up to
ninth as far as the ranking goes.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
But like you said, there's this belief of what they've
been able to do.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
What they've been able to accomplish is a bit of
fool's goal because the offense has been so inconsistent and
even if you have a great defense, I'd say the
biggest concern right now is we head down the stretch.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Is probably the running game.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And it's not to say that I don't think they
can survive some of these games like Washington or the
Raiders coming up.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I think they can find a way to work those.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
It's more about when the weather becomes a factor and
you have to put it on bon Nix. What's that
look like because you're I mean, you're going to host
a playoff game, right Let's just whatever happens with the
first overall seed. Maybe the path to the Super Bowl
goes through Denver. That would be phenomenal. But you're gonna
win the AFC West. It looks that way, and it
means you're gonna host a playoff game. You just out
(03:10):
the Chargers in the mix. I'm not counting that just
but I would believe I would. I'm going with you
on this because I think they will.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So so just for where we're at right now, which
means you're playing in January in Denver, which of course
we know can be whatever with the weather, and you
got to be able to run the ball.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
You have to, yeah, and that's I mean for this team.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That's gonna be something they're gonna have to figure out. Obviously,
they didn't run it very effectively. I mean, Argie Harvey
was spectacularly in effective running the ball in that game.
Julia had a little success. They're gonna have to figure
something out that you know, keeps people from pitting the
ears back. Right now, Bo Nicks leads the NFL and
passing attempts, how about that three hundred and eighty seven passing?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
It the wild?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That is insane with a great defense, that's what's so
weird about that stat Yeah, that is that is absolutely absurd.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And then his yards per attempt, I mean it's like
one of the lowest.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You all that that wasn't that's sound a surprise, right,
I think the only guy it's lowest Joe Joe Flacco.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
But you know it's it's it's the attempt though, that's
pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, three hundred and eighty seven passing attempts at this point,
which is obscene. Now he's uh, and he's played the
same amount of games as just about everybody. The only
guys that have played ten that are within striking distance
and be like Prescott and Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
We're at three sixty two and three sixty one.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So you know, those guys would need to get twenty
five to twenty six passing attempts to.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Pass, which you know is just within the realm of possibility.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
But that puts you in perspective that Bonex is throwing
the ball as often as Dak Prescott and Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
A couple of text here on the Kiawa Comma Spirit
Health text line, Am I missing something? Sounds like you
guys think the Broncos have the division wrapped up and
a good chance to get the number one scene in
a bye is and there still six games left.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
What if the Broncos lose all four of them?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
They have Kansas City away, the Chargers, the Packers, and
Washington might get Daniels back. Well, I think that there's
there's a couple of things to talk about there. It's
it's saying, okay, well, on the trajectory of where they at,
they're at, they control their own destiny to win the division.
That's being said, Yeah, there's a potential for collapse. It's
(05:07):
more about, I guess a belief that you might have
in that collapse. They've had moments where you say, well,
this is where it's gonna happen, right, this is this
is the collapse, This is where it all comes crashing down.
And then the answer to the bell I am inclined,
and this is my rebuttal to the text to say
the better opponents on their schedule. I actually believe they
(05:27):
will play their best football against more so than my
worry against teams like Washington and the Raiders, where they
may show up and think we can just do whatever
we have to do win these games.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I mean, the only two teams that could possibly win
the division is Kansas City, when you would take an
epic collapse by both Denver and LA to make that happen.
And the Chargers do you guys know what the Chargers
schedule is down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It's brutal.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
They've got Minnesota Vikings come into town. Okay, whatever next,
you got at Kansas City. Then you got your easiest
game of the year against.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
The Atlanta Falcons at home on December seventh.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Then you the NFC West back to back to back,
you play the San Francisco forty nine ers at San
fran You got the Seahawks come at the town, and
you got the Arizona Cardinals in there. And that's before
you square off against the you know, the Broncos.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
End of the season.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The Chargers, man, that schedule is rough and they are
hemorrhaging bodies due to jury.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Now a lot of good defenses in there for sure,
and you're right, especially in the offense.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Their offensive line.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It really got exposed against Jacksonville this last week.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
But you're struggling against Jacksonville, what are you going to
do against Seattle? Yes, you know right.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So again, I don't want to sound as though anything
is wrapped up, and maybe I'm not framing that correctly.
I think it's more of the trajectory of and then
my belief in this team to be able to rise
to the occasion and do what they set out to do,
which is win the division. Now the one seed, that's
a little bit of a different deal. You do in
some ways control your own destiny. But the Colts, if
they went out right, they have a tiebreaker on you
(06:52):
because they want head to head. You could, i think,
based on the schedule, maybe still have a better conference
record than New England. If that ends up being the
tiebreaker for the Patriots and you have the same record,
that's a little bit of a different discussion. We have
some time for that one. But for the division, yeah,
I mean, you have a nice lead. The Chargers have
so many injuries. They are going to get back on
(07:13):
Marion Hampton. They're going to get back a couple of guys,
but they're not gonna be able to get back their
offensive line. The two tackles are done. That's how it's done.
So that's where I guess my confidence lies when it
comes to the AFC West, is that I just the
Chargers feel like they're gonna run out of gas. The
Chiefs are going to keep fighting, but is it going
to be enough? There's an interesting fundamental flaw. James Palmer
(07:34):
had an interesting stat maybe when we come back, because
I actually pulled the sound of Patrick Mahomes saying what
was his most frustrating thing about that game against the Broncos,
so we can get to that. And then James Palmer
had a really interesting stat Patrick Mahomes on third down
that I don't want to get to. It's where when
you look at me in the eyes when you did that,
(07:56):
I don't think I'll ever get that image out of
my head for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh just sorry. Oh yeah, the eye contacts bad.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
But the opening up of the bathrobe is what really
does it for me. That's what that's the most unsettled.
They kind of fan myself a little gets a lot
in here.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Get the DV going. It's a lot of skin, just
a little hasslehoff little chest hair start out the top there,
fit chest hairs, trying to make a prison break for
it over the top.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Of my shirt. It's like row it up against the
mike cause.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
You're talking.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Zeno more baby.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
All right, we'll have Nick Cosmier.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
No, well he's talk gonna want That's what I'm fraid
to get this out of your system now, so.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
We have on show. He knows what it is.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, we're gonna a real professional coming up here about
ten minutes, and I want him to.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Nick Mills when he comes on. Kaoe.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
He knows exactly what time it is. It's all right there,
all right, we're joking around for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Oh yeah, I guess that part and parcel of the
Steve Atwater Hour. Maybe we'll talk to Broncos, but more
likely we're just going to talk about life, kitchen appliances.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Who wouldn't really, who wouldn't want to watch Henry fond
to pick blueberries?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay, so I teased this Patrick Mahomes a really great
stat from James Palmer, and I'll get to that here
in a second.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
But here was Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I think this was yesterday talking about what were the
most frustrating part of the loss the Broncos was.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
For me, it was just getting the ball with four
minutes left and not getting points and not getting that
first down or really anything, just being in those moments
before knowing how important it is to kind of get
some momentum in your in your team by at least
moving the ball a little bit and changing the field position.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And not being able to do that was big.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
So that was the most disappointing part for me, because
even though I didn't feel like we played to our
best level, our best standard, we were still an opportunity
to win the football game and we weren't able to
do that.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It seems like.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Maybe the offense is better at this year than it
was last year.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Is it just a matter of just, you know, plays
in the situational for a fall.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
I mean, I think I've pre set for the last
few years is like these games are a couple of
plays here and there. I mean, there's not a lot
of times in this way where you're blowing teams out,
and so it's just a couple of plays here and
there that you have to make. We've been able to
make those plays in these last years and we're not
doing that this year. And now it's about giving ourselves
more opportunities to make those plays, and then when we
get those opportunities, going out there and doing it. And
(10:16):
so I'm excited for it. We had a lot of
good football teams coming up, starting off with the Colts,
but it's a it's a great opportunity to go out
there and get our season turned around and get go
in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I feel like you should be like running brainbow connection
under that. But uh, it was some of your best work.
It's well done, well done. So he brought that up right,
They got the I got you that one. That's good.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
They got the ball with four ten remaining and they
went three and outs. I mean they were incompletion and
completion sack and get got the ball right back to
the Broncos, and the Broncos of course, round the round
the clock and get the field go at the very end.
This is interesting sat here from James Palmer on some
of the reasons why the Chiefs offense isn't having the
success that they're used to. He's having one of per
(11:03):
James having one of his worst seasons of his career
on third down, completing just fifty seven percent of his passes,
four touchdowns and four interceptions, seventy four point one passer rating,
and those are all career lows.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
But it's not that's the result true.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know, you know why he's having the best on
third down because teams are playing quarters on third down
and saying, we'll give you the flats on third down
and take everything else away?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Will you take it? And can you get enough out
of it? And they can't. That's what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Vic Fangiel laid out the blueprint Mass Joseph started it
out Van Joseph when he was here as a head
coach and Joe Woods. They ran a little too high
on on Pat and it slowed in down. It's some
of his worst statistical games against the Broncos back then,
even when he was at the peak of Pat Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Big Fangio got out here and he sort of built
on what advance did.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
He steve random too high, but he ransom quarters match
since he's sixed off with the occasional zero blitz sprinkled
in there, and now you sort of see what the
blueprint is on Mahomes on fourth on third down.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
This is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We're trying to keep you in second plug us and
when you get to third down and six plus, we're
gonna play you to cover four and we're gonna dare
you to take the flats and and you're not gonna
be able to do that. We're gonna take away Kelsey
and make you take the flats.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Also has seen a lot of Shues fans complaining about
the lack of running game. Now, Pat Chuck was hurt,
but they didn't have a great running game even when
he was in there.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
They haven't had a good run game since gosh before
before Clyde Edwards Hilaire was drafted.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
You know that draft pick was Clyde Edwards hilarious.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I mean at the time, coming out of LSU, I
was a big fan. I was wondering why he was
playing running back.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
He's a receiver, like he's a slot receiver playing running
back is what he was. And Mahomes had a lot
of sway and getting that, and it was right before
his contract and so they kind of, you know, they
kind of did that and we're going to they just
haven't had that. I mean, Pacheco when he was in
his prime and not getting hurt. You know, it was
a big part of that because they're so tepid with
that run game that you need somebody that's a feral
(12:51):
animal back there. They're just gonna rip off four, five
to eight yards by being the keep the legs churning guy.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
If you go back and look at Andy Reid's history,
the little these.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Little backs that they're using, the little pass catcher, that's
not his style.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
The reason they get Kareem Hug is that's more his style.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You remember Duke Staley, Correll Buckhalter Westbrook, Nile Davis. You
know he loves those six foot two hundred and thirty pounds.
I'm gonna run you in a straight line forward on
the ISO running backs. That's that's gonna give me second
and six or five to play with. Although I guess
Westbrook was a big running back when he was stout. Yeah,
he was tough, they had sproles, was tough to bring down,
(13:28):
but he usually liked He usually liked those early down
backs and he would get that. And Sean Payton's kind
of the same way, to be honest with you, but
he would love those guys that you could put him
on an ISO and you know, they go get you
four five six yards on first down.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And it makes second and third down easy.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Nick Cosmier joined his Neck to the Kaway Comings for
Hotline to.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Bring on a very good friend of the program, Nick
Cosmi from The Athletic and Nick Cosmiter on Twitter. Nick,
always great to catch up with you, my friend. How's
the bye week treating you?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
It's nice, you know, like actually running down a list
of things that I've probably been putting off for weeks,
if not months. So yeah, it makes my wife happy
and we're doing good.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So you're saying you have your own fourth quarter comeback.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Right, Yeah, you know, like at a certain point, you
just it doesn't matter if you're down by thirty three
or five. You got to make a.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Run at some point. So that's what we're trying to do,
all right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I really liked I mean, I always liked your articles.
I reference him a lot here on the show, but
I like this one that you were sort of breaking
down the path to the one seed. We'll start there
and then I want to get to your bon mix
stuff because I thought that was really good too. But
you said you seeking around thirteen and four would would
probably do the trick.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And of course there's still a lot to play here.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
The Colts and they're playing this week against the Chiefs,
you got the Patriots, maybe they're playing Joe Burrow and
the Cincinnati Bengals. But thirteen and four feels about right
for you, does it? It?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Does? You know? We use then there's obviously lots of
different simulators you can use, but with ours at the Athletic,
you know, that's kind of the projected finished right now
that they have the Patriots and they're at thirteen and four,
of the Broncos in the two at twelve and five,
So I do think thirteen and four kind of kind
of makes sense, particularly because for me, you look at
that Patriots schedule and they really don't have a tough
(15:15):
road ahead. The one team they have left that has
a winning record right now is the Bills. They get
that game at home, obviously at Baltimore. The way that
the Ravens are playing right now, that'll be a tough contest.
Those are the.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Two toughest games.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Certainly, if you're a Broncos fan, you like that Joe
Burrow is returning in this game. But nonetheless, I just
think you look at two teams that to this point
are nine and two, you know, four and two seems
pretty reasonable that one of these teams, you know, is
kind of going to get to that mark.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, that's the interesting thing here, and I you know,
I kind of penciled him at twelve and five, so
that fits right in the range going going forward. But
I think the interesting thing to me is if you
look at this, say, if they do clinch this this
number one seed, if they do get that, I mean,
there's a scenario here where you're resting guys, you know,
in week eighteen, and you're talking about like.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
A three week period there where you've.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Got the potential for these guys to be down, you know,
kind of getting healthy again. I just not I haven't
seen anything like this, And then you know in Broncos
country in quite some time.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, and it's interesting, Like after the game on Sunday,
and I forget exactly what led into it, if you
guys might remember, but Sean Payton is essentially talking about
you know, one of his saying I think he was
just sort of talking about like doing what you need
to do for your team at any given time, and
he took some criticism for having rested or arm having
(16:34):
played some of his players, but he felt like they
need to or maybe it was the other way around.
Either way, the idea was that, like, you know, he's
always had a pretty good read on what his teams need,
and so you're absolutely right then, like that that could be,
that could be the scenario, you know, because let's say
Baltimore perhaps has you know, I'm sorry, New England has
lost those two games that were that we're talking about,
(16:55):
and maybe to that point, the Broncos have only lost
one and you look at the tiber if it's going
to be them in New England, you know, first's conference record.
After that it's it's a you know, record.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Of combined opponents.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
It helps denver that New England has already lost to
the Raiders this year, you know, something that obviously the
Broncos haven't done. Still have one more game there on
December seventh against Las Vegas. So there's a decent chance.
All that is to say that they you know, could
be in a good tie breaker scenario with the Patriots.
It's why they're currently sitting ahead of them in the
standings right now, even though they have the same record.
(17:29):
So yeah, I don't think that's out of the possibility,
and yeah, it really is when you know that kind
of the bye week is to take some time to
sort of zoom out and look at where they are.
I don't think any of us, really, you know, many
of us thought that that could be the position that
they're in, you know, kind of heading into that big
game in Washington, that they would be nine to two,
and we're having, you know, serious substantive conversations about them
potentially earning a number one seed in the buy that
(17:51):
comes with it.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Cha with the cosmidor from the Athletic you know, you
you you kind of did a nice breakdown here on
Bonnicks and specifically how his team has rallied around him.
Is there something that bo Nicks could be working on
in the bye week? I know the Sean gave them
all week off, but if there was something he could
improve on for these final six games, what would it
be for you?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I would If it was me, I would have started with, hey, like,
let's cut up a lot of the good things that
we did in this game against a really good pass
rush and just have those kind of things sink into
sort of your psyche, like we you know, you go
through and there had been time, there had not been
many times going through his film this year where there
was just kind of the solid climb in the pocket
(18:33):
sometimes but you know, they're run up in the pocket
to kind of create you know, an off platform throw
or whatever the case might be, but just pure you know,
climbing stepping up, it's sort of been few and far between,
and you could point to several examples of that in
the game against Kansas City. And of course what that
does is allows you to manipulate the pressure the way
(18:54):
that you want to, but it also keeps your eyes
down the field in a way that when you just
kind of like run up in the you're not always
necessarily able to do. And I thought his ability to
do that, you know, let guys extend routes create some
separation you know later in the route concept that would
be kind of my thing. Mine would be a like
a kind of a go into this with a real
(19:15):
positive thing of hey, let's let's build on this, because
there was some some really good stuff that you know,
he added to to what he already does well, which
is the you know, the movement, the ability to kind
of you know, be a playmaker, especially late in games
like he often is. You know, I e. The throat,
the twenty yard throat of Courtland Sutton on third and fifteen.
Pair of that, which is kind of more sound trust
(19:36):
in the pocket. I thought there was a lot to like,
and so that would be me. It would just be like, hey,
let's let's kind of build off what we did there
on Sunday against the Chiefs.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, everybody was to focus on Bowl. But you know,
he's answered those questions for me.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You know, he shows up when he needs to and
you know, when the bell rings and he shows up
what he needs to. I think the question here going forward,
as we look at this last third of the season
is what does this run game look like? Both it's
been the Yeah, he's the NFL in passing attempts. Uh.
The run game is wildly ineffective, although you know, to
be fair, wasn't as as needed this past week. You know,
(20:09):
RJ has just not gotten it as a as a
running back, yet Jalil was marginally better. What what are
we going to do here when we're getting into the
data of December and you've got to run the football?
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, it's a great question because you know you're you're
you're somewhat short on options in terms of, like, you know,
different levers that you can pull, like you're you're going
to need r J. Harvey to you know, to get
more reps and hope that he builds on those enough
to where you are trusting him to be, you know,
a guy that becomes a major part of your game plan.
To your point, Ben, in games where you know, running
(20:40):
the football is going to be paramount, not just because
of a you know, controlling the clock type of way
or whatever that might be, but also because of the
weather and not wanting to put the ball in bo
Nix's hands forty times when it's you know, tend degrees
there ad in power field. So that's going to be critical.
And I know that this team has shown a lot
of acumen for being able to close finish close games,
(21:00):
but man, you would love if you're the Broncos going
into these next two against teams with losing records to
be able to get out ahead and really just give
the reps and give the opportunity to really work RJ. Harvey,
Angelo mcloughfin in a way that kind of gives you
confidence that they're starting to kind of build up a
rhythm that to me would be a big priority if
I'm the Broncos, Like, yeah, you need to win these games.
(21:22):
You need to continue to win these games because of
what you're playing for, right, Like if you're trying to
be the number one seed, not a lot of margin
for err, But I think you do kind of have
to balance that with like, let's really get these guys
going so that we can figure out what they can
and can't do collectively as we build our run game.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
For the playoffs in Cosmo or joining us. Last couple
for you Man. Also in your article, he talked about
the secondary a little bit. Would you consider some kind
of rotation there at outside corner, especially when Pastor Tam
comes back. Obviously he's starting on the opposite side, But
for Riley Moss in his position, do you go rotation
there or do you go back to what you were?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I think they're
probably going to look at a couple of these things,
and certainly with pat Down they have they had kind
of created a little bit of an outside rotation. Obviously
it was large it's largely been Chris Abrams strain on
the outside, but you sprinkled John A. Barren into that
role a little bit as well, So maybe there are
certain packages that you like Chris Abrams drain to be
(22:22):
out on the field a little bit more for you know,
obviously they they they're confident in Riley Moss. You know,
no point to the you know, the low completion rate,
his ability to just be competitive and and to get
past things. But you know that they're going to have
to kind of really sort of evaluate almost from a
philosophical level of like this is sort of what this
guy is in terms of right now. He's just at
(22:43):
a point where he's he's collecting a lot of flags
and a lot of big moments, and teams are clearly
hunting that as a way to get down the field. So,
you know, Riley Moss set himself after the game like
there's gonna be a lot of things that he needs
to do that they're going to work on in practice,
whether it's you know, playing corner with boxing gloves on,
so he has to keep his keep his hands off,
you know, as they train for for these upcoming games,
(23:05):
like they're going to need to kind of try all
those things. But I don't have a great answer for you,
but I wouldn't surprise me if they do try to
look at that and say, you know, how can we
get Chris abrams Strand on the field as well, in
part just because he's he's playing really well. That's the
guy you want to continue to have grow and develop.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know, we were talking with Dave Logan earlier.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
We're talking about how, you know, Washington went the NFC
Championship in their first year and they kind of fell
off in the second year, and a lot of that
had to do with the fact they need to reload
on defense, and they went with a munch old free agents.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
It didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
If Broncos have a defense, it's it's pre built, and it's
pre built to be sustained for a few years on
into whenever it is you're going to end up having
to pay both How much of a confidence boost do
you think it is overall for this unit to go
out there and do what they're doing without their best
player and without their their logistics leader in the Green Dot,
and and you know, and and still coming away with
(23:53):
these defensive performances.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, I think it's kind of wild, honestly, And and
and that's what I think operates this team from the
unit last year. Obviously, Denver had a really good defense
last year, led the league in sacks by a large
margins set a franchise record could always get after the quarterback.
But I just think that if they were lucky last
year to not have to have dealt with a lot
(24:16):
of the injuries that we're seeing creeping up, they didn't
rest on that as some sort of thing where you're like, Oh,
this is how it's going to be every year, even
though you know Sean Payton says, you kind of like
to you feel like you earn what you have injury wise.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Look, we all know.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
That there's huge variants to injuries. You're going to have
them at some point, and right now the Broncos have
dealt with them a little bit more than they did
in either Sean Payton's first two years. They've also they're
also more equipped than at any other time to deal
with those, and I think that's been a really important
part of the latter part of this win streak. Like
when Patzertan went down, if you said, hey, we're going
(24:50):
to be we're going to be three and oh before
we get him back in Washington. You're gonna feel great
about that if for no other reason than like, that's
your best football player and you found a way to
win without him. And then yeah, again, you had guys
that were starters last year, like Justin Surnad. Now he's
a fill in guy who plays at a starter level.
That's not a luxury a lot of teams have. And
(25:10):
it's a testament to George Peyton and Sean Payton the
way that they've built this roster.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
So your guy, Robert Mays on the podcast today said
that if the Broncos win the Super Bowl, he's gonna
shave his head. Are you going to help with that?
Since you cover the Broncos, I'd be happy to.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I Actually, I was just cleaning some stuff off for
that honeydew list and found this old pair of like
clippers from COVID when I tried to cut my own hair,
and obviously I burned all evidence of that existing.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
But yeah, so I've.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Got the clippers not really used, so I'll be happy
to send Robert does or help them in whatever way
I could, you know, video it or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
He needs those guys, And again, I think they do
a really good job I listened to a lot of
national pods just kind of get a sense of how
different people are talking about the Broncos outside of the market.
And yeah, that they have not been the biggest bon
Nicks guy, and I can understand that from the pre
draft process to some of his inconsistencies, But there's the
they basically said that they just don't believe this team
(26:09):
has what it takes to win a championship, and they
took the Chiefs ahead of them even that sitting at
the nine seed, as in more belief in their ability
to win a championship, which I guess I could kind
of understand based on priors, but also it's a little
weird to me.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Yeah, I mean, there's like there's one school of thought.
I think, like, you know, as much as I'm sure
you guys and plenty of others have had fun with Nick, right,
like the one thing that he said that it's like, okay,
I see that where he said something to the effect
of like I'm gonna go ahead and just wait one
year until the Chiefs aren't in the Super Bowl or
you know, in the AFT Championship before I you know,
just kind of declare them to declare them dead, and
(26:48):
I think you've earned sort of some of the benefits
of doubt, even though now they have this scrape just
to get into the playoffs. I think the one thing
and maybe this is like a bigger picture sort of
like critique on what we do sometimes you know, from
a national media perspective. But but all of this is
there's always this yearning to put like a certain game
(27:08):
into a larger context like all the time. And what
that does is it presents just this like week by week,
like this is what we've decided a person is, this
is how it's going. Well, ignoring the fact that so
much of this is an arc, like it really is
like a marathon. Like if you had done this to
John Elways for like this didn't exist back then, but
you'd be saying, like God, what a bum, Like what
(27:30):
do he complete his passes today?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Or whoever?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Is like you know, and so it just is this
kind of that's the machine. It's just like everything has
to be instead of just evaluating the game or like
you know, talking about this that there tends to be
and it's not singling anybody. I just I think we're
all guilty of that at times of like wanting to
put it into a larger context or a larger conversation
(27:53):
all the time instead of just as this was this game,
he did this well, this is something that he did
do well, like he's going to have to continue to grow.
And then you know, then you look back on it
later and just say, like, this is sort of the
trend that we see. You know, I get it, you
understand why it works that way. But I think that's
where you get some of that stuff is just like
this is the trend, like we are seeing this and
(28:14):
when we've created this like narrative and so you know,
now you're just sticking with it as opposed to maybe
just really kind of getting in there and looking at
it game by game.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
As perfectly said my friend, always great. We will see
you out of practice next week.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
All right, thanks a lot, tak Care.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I appreciate it's an the cosmic from the athletic always great.
Love his work. Robert Mays, Millie Mays rough don't matter
Broncos in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I mean, for I had nineteenth President of the United
States there.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
But pretty good. I mean I understand where they're coming
from a little bit. And there's a little bit of
that confirmation bias, and I think to the next point there,
and I think them there's a lot of people out
there that have taken their shots at bo Nicks for
for multitude of different reasons.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So he did play a good game against can't say Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
You acknowledge that at the beginning of the show, and
we've all acknowledged that, even they acknowledged he played a good.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Game against the Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
But there's this, like what I thought about him coming
out of college, what he's been at the pro level.
There's I've asked this question before, like how many games
or how many years or seasons does he have to
play to move beyond priors whatever you thought about him before,
because he hasn't done enough right now to change many minds,
whether you were pro Bonnicks or anti bon Nicks. And
(29:25):
that's extremes, but you know what I'm saying, like it
confirms things when he has games like the Raiders.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Game, Well, that's that's what I thought he'd be.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I knew he wasn't a very good quarterback, and then
he goes out and has a good game and you're like, well,
I mean, but that was one off. I got to
see a lot more, you know what I'm saying, I
got to see a lot more of the Raiders game
before I'm dogging him that much, you know, turn him
into teable. The reality is when Bo came out, I
called him Derek Carr, and I kind of stand by that.
He's Derek Carr with a winner gene, you know. I mean,
he's Derek Carr, but a winner at the end of
the day. I mean I stand by that.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You know, Derek Carr was the guy who's you know,
screenplays in deep shots and then for medicism.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Than anything you knew that he had.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And yeah, and then people didn't love that you used
that comp but just for a moment, like, what would
it take for you to come off of that comp
and give.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Him a better one?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
See, I I'm not gonna come off of that. I
don't think.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I think most people can come off their view of
what Derek Carr was and go back and look at
what Derek Carr was. Derek Carr is a winner. Is
as a compliment, Derek Carr was a top third league quarterback.
Is that I'm not I'm not wrong. It's you people,
They're stupid, But That's what I'm trying to get at,
is just like, yeah, everybody's everyone, myself included. It's stuck
(30:33):
in those in those sort of prior you know, thought
thought spaces that they had.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
But I mean not, I haven't seen anything to shake
me off that. I The difference is is.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
That I thought Derek Carr was better than everybody else
thinks Derek Carr is. At what point? At what point
do you feel like we can assess?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
So what do I what do I? What do I
upgrade him to?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Diet Tony Romo? I mean, well, then that's also a pjorative.
I'm saying, like it Tony was a successful we were
to die at anybody.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
You know, he doesn't have quite the you know that
Tony Romo did well.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I know, but I mean you know that, like if
you're saying diet anybody, it's always going to be a pejority.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
But my point of it is is that.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
The rich man's Alex Smith.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I'm trying to decide at what point we can assess that,
and maybe we we just shouldn't and just sort of
let it play out. But I know that it's not
how we do things in society and society we have
to have a label, we have.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
To have comparisons, quantify, qualify, right, So I'm like, it's
all fair when you're saying, well, he hasn't risen above.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Whatever this bar I have for the comp or the prior,
and that's fire. I mean he hasn't, you know, And
there are many stats, advanced analytics or otherwise I would
say he has not cleared some of those bars. But
then he keeps doing these comebacks and he's now is
the first quarterback in history to have what is a
nine fourth quarter comebacks in the first two seasons and
he's still going. And that that is also something that matters.
(31:52):
It really does matter. And I don't remember Derek Carr
being that great at that.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
All the time.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Well he wasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's why I put the badge on there is that
Derek carrxcept these winner. You know, Derek Carr didn't have
that dig deep in the fourth quarter. And some of
that was some of that was the lack of talent
that he's in the bad coaching he had. But in
terms of tools and archetypes and what he brings to
the table and all that kind of stuff, that's kind
of what he is you could win with.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
That if you got the right talent around it.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I mean, listen, I'm with you, and I'm not as
down on Derek Carr as some but you understand here
and Broadcasa And that's sort of the.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Reason I'm hammering hot home because it's a little bit
antagonistic time you But I'm right, what, like, Derek Carr
was a decent quarterback and because he played for the Raiders,
nobody here's ever going.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
To admit that, well, he certainly gave the Broncos fits.
I'm just say it for you, like you should.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
We should, we should look at that and be like, yeah,
I kind of gave us a tell for for a
couple of years, believe it or not. He was better
than people gave him credit for it. But he played
with the Raiders. But when the bottom fell out for
Derek Carr fell out. I mean, but when the bottom
falls out for a minute, look at Geno right now.
Gino was ball in the last couple of years. The
bottom fell out for him. No, but the bottom fell out,
and like he didn't have a very long career, bottom
(32:58):
fell out.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, those kinds of injuries at the end, right you know, Rack,
So that's That's where my mind goes is like, well,
that's not that's not a franchise, long term franchise quarterback.
That is a guy that you probably give a second
contract to, but you're probably thinking.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
About, well, we have the benefit of hindsight with that.
With Derek Carr, you would have given you gave him
a second and you would have given him a third
contract in those cases if all things being equal.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
And you had a lot of coaching change and like
you said, turnover and they kept drafting the weirdest players
around him. So all that's fair. So back to Boonicks,
though I don't know what it'll take. I do think
that a deep playoff run, and especially we're not hold
on a deep playoff run where he isn't just along
(33:37):
for the ride, and I don't even think he's been
quote unquote along the ride.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Like that's the thing Like this, I know what it's
like to be entrenched in those those things, and what
you're going to get is excuses for why it happened.
He could he could win the next three Super Bowls
and you're gonna have a well, that great defense and
the coaching, the people who they people don't.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Admit when they're wrong. People just don't. And and so
I mean, I know we have fun with that here
on the show.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
But I'm looking right at you. I've had more than
plenty of off the air. I'm happy to have me
and I'm wrong like you, I'll come right in here
and do it. But and I like this is gonna
sound weird. I like being wrong, you know, like I
like having growth experiences. I like being able to learn
from something, you know, and that's how you learn, I
said being wrong, But at the same time, like people
who they don't like to be wrong, and they will
(34:22):
twist themselves into any number of pretzels, mental pretzels to
try to get themselves to continue to think they're right.
I liken it to the tebow phenomenon. Right that should
never have happened. None of that stuff should have been happened.
And I'm sitting here twisting myself in a knoz. Well, okay,
so we had this this.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
And at the end of the day, man, it's just
it's football.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
The guy was a great athlete, the ball happened to
bounce the right way, it all came together at the
right time.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
That kind of stuff with baul All as a starter
in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Anybody who's trying to sell you otherwise an idiot, and
then you just go from there.
The health text line looking forward to chatting with the
(00:03):
Cosmo are coming up at four thirty. Really cool article
on the Broncos chase for the number one overall seed
in the AFC. We'll get to that coming up here in.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
The Super Bowl odds have not improved all that much
for the Broncos as they sit there at nine and
two with the first seed in the AFC.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
They are ninth in Super Bowl odds. I don't think
a lot of people have confidence that they're going to
keep making this fourth quarter magic thing happen once you
get into the playoffs. Say, I just I think that's
what it is God that I believe or disbelieve. I
just think that's the betting public doesn't really believe. Well,
I mean, I get it. The Chiefs have better odds.
(00:41):
They actually Chiefs, I believe, are tied.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, they are tied with the Buffalo Bills atop the
AFC as far as the best odds to win the
Super Bowl. Okay, yeah, the Chiefs, by the way, the
ninth seed right now, who are looking at teams ahead
of them that if they've lost too in Jacksonville, Buffalo
and the Chargers.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
He's could be effectively eliminated they lose the Colts.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, you're not actually eliminated, but I mean at
that point you might effectively be.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
The Rams and the Eagles right now are the betting
favored to win the Super Bowl. And again I can
kind of understand that. I think both those teams have
been playing really well. I mean the Eagles, I think
there's a lot of people that believe from a talent
perspective on the offensive side of the ball, they efinentially
figured it out. They've had They've had moments in the past,
even last year, where they had moments where you're wondering
what's going on with that offense, and then they figured
(01:27):
it out and they played great in the postseason and
they go on and win a Super Bowl. The Rams
are really the team for me, Like the Rams, they
look complete and keep coming back to the remarkable discussion
we've all had in the off season of can Matt
Stafford even survive a season with all these back injuries
and what we're saying about it.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Hey, I mean you told me during a training camp,
You're like, man, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
They are worried about his back and here he is
playing at an MVP level. They have a very good defense.
What a win they had over Seattle. I mean it
was a close game. But also Sam Darnold throwing four
interceptions doesn't.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Minimize what Stafford has to do. I mean he's only
throwing the ball. Is attempts per game is not that
high throwing the ball. They're doing really well bouncing that out,
making sure he doesn't take kids trying to.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Save the wear and tear on him.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So anyways, it's kind of remarkable here with the Broncos
when they improve from plus eighteen hundred to plus fifteen
hundred in Super Bowl odds when they beat the Kansas
City Chiefs, But that still only moved them up to
ninth as far as the ranking goes.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
But like you said, there's this belief of what they've
been able to do.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
What they've been able to accomplish is a bit of
fool's goal because the offense has been so inconsistent and
even if you have a great defense, I'd say the
biggest concern right now is we head down the stretch.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Is probably the running game.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And it's not to say that I don't think they
can survive some of these games like Washington or the
Raiders coming up.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I think they can find a way to work those.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
It's more about when the weather becomes a factor and
you have to put it on bon Nix. What's that
look like because you're I mean, you're going to host
a playoff game, right Let's just whatever happens with the
first overall seed. Maybe the path to the Super Bowl
goes through Denver. That would be phenomenal. But you're gonna
win the AFC West. It looks that way, and it
means you're gonna host a playoff game. You just out
(03:10):
the Chargers in the mix. I'm not counting that just
but I would believe I would. I'm going with you
on this because I think they will.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So so just for where we're at right now, which
means you're playing in January in Denver, which of course
we know can be whatever with the weather, and you
got to be able to run the ball.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
You have to, yeah, and that's I mean for this team.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That's gonna be something they're gonna have to figure out. Obviously,
they didn't run it very effectively. I mean, Argie Harvey
was spectacularly in effective running the ball in that game.
Julia had a little success. They're gonna have to figure
something out that you know, keeps people from pitting the
ears back. Right now, Bo Nicks leads the NFL and
passing attempts, how about that three hundred and eighty seven passing?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
It the wild?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That is insane with a great defense, that's what's so
weird about that stat Yeah, that is that is absolutely absurd.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And then his yards per attempt, I mean it's like
one of the lowest.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
You all that that wasn't that's sound a surprise, right,
I think the only guy it's lowest Joe Joe Flacco.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
But you know it's it's it's the attempt though, that's
pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, three hundred and eighty seven passing attempts at this point,
which is obscene. Now he's uh, and he's played the
same amount of games as just about everybody. The only
guys that have played ten that are within striking distance
and be like Prescott and Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
We're at three sixty two and three sixty one.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So you know, those guys would need to get twenty
five to twenty six passing attempts to.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Pass, which you know is just within the realm of possibility.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
But that puts you in perspective that Bonex is throwing
the ball as often as Dak Prescott and Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
A couple of text here on the Kiawa Comma Spirit
Health text line, Am I missing something? Sounds like you
guys think the Broncos have the division wrapped up and
a good chance to get the number one scene in
a bye is and there still six games left.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
What if the Broncos lose all four of them?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
They have Kansas City away, the Chargers, the Packers, and
Washington might get Daniels back. Well, I think that there's
there's a couple of things to talk about there. It's
it's saying, okay, well, on the trajectory of where they at,
they're at, they control their own destiny to win the division.
That's being said, Yeah, there's a potential for collapse. It's
(05:07):
more about, I guess a belief that you might have
in that collapse. They've had moments where you say, well,
this is where it's gonna happen, right, this is this
is the collapse, This is where it all comes crashing down.
And then the answer to the bell I am inclined,
and this is my rebuttal to the text to say
the better opponents on their schedule. I actually believe they
(05:27):
will play their best football against more so than my
worry against teams like Washington and the Raiders, where they
may show up and think we can just do whatever
we have to do win these games.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I mean, the only two teams that could possibly win
the division is Kansas City, when you would take an
epic collapse by both Denver and LA to make that happen.
And the Chargers do you guys know what the Chargers
schedule is down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It's brutal.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
They've got Minnesota Vikings come into town. Okay, whatever next,
you got at Kansas City. Then you got your easiest
game of the year against.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
The Atlanta Falcons at home on December seventh.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Then you the NFC West back to back to back,
you play the San Francisco forty nine ers at San
fran You got the Seahawks come at the town, and
you got the Arizona Cardinals in there. And that's before
you square off against the you know, the Broncos.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
End of the season.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The Chargers, man, that schedule is rough and they are
hemorrhaging bodies due to jury.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Now a lot of good defenses in there for sure,
and you're right, especially in the offense.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Their offensive line.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It really got exposed against Jacksonville this last week.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
But you're struggling against Jacksonville, what are you going to
do against Seattle? Yes, you know right.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So again, I don't want to sound as though anything
is wrapped up, and maybe I'm not framing that correctly.
I think it's more of the trajectory of and then
my belief in this team to be able to rise
to the occasion and do what they set out to do,
which is win the division. Now the one seed, that's
a little bit of a different deal. You do in
some ways control your own destiny. But the Colts, if
they went out right, they have a tiebreaker on you
(06:52):
because they want head to head. You could, i think,
based on the schedule, maybe still have a better conference
record than New England. If that ends up being the
tiebreaker for the Patriots and you have the same record,
that's a little bit of a different discussion. We have
some time for that one. But for the division, yeah,
I mean, you have a nice lead. The Chargers have
so many injuries. They are going to get back on
(07:13):
Marion Hampton. They're going to get back a couple of guys,
but they're not gonna be able to get back their
offensive line. The two tackles are done. That's how it's done.
So that's where I guess my confidence lies when it
comes to the AFC West, is that I just the
Chargers feel like they're gonna run out of gas. The
Chiefs are going to keep fighting, but is it going
to be enough? There's an interesting fundamental flaw. James Palmer
(07:34):
had an interesting stat maybe when we come back, because
I actually pulled the sound of Patrick Mahomes saying what
was his most frustrating thing about that game against the Broncos,
so we can get to that. And then James Palmer
had a really interesting stat Patrick Mahomes on third down
that I don't want to get to. It's where when
you look at me in the eyes when you did that,
(07:56):
I don't think I'll ever get that image out of
my head for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh just sorry. Oh yeah, the eye contacts bad.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
But the opening up of the bathrobe is what really
does it for me. That's what that's the most unsettled.
They kind of fan myself a little gets a lot
in here.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Get the DV going. It's a lot of skin, just
a little hasslehoff little chest hair start out the top there,
fit chest hairs, trying to make a prison break for
it over the top.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Of my shirt. It's like row it up against the
mike cause.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
You're talking.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Zeno more baby.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
All right, we'll have Nick Cosmier.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
No, well he's talk gonna want That's what I'm fraid
to get this out of your system now, so.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
We have on show. He knows what it is.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, we're gonna a real professional coming up here about
ten minutes, and I want him to.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Nick Mills when he comes on. Kaoe.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
He knows exactly what time it is. It's all right there,
all right, we're joking around for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Oh yeah, I guess that part and parcel of the
Steve Atwater Hour. Maybe we'll talk to Broncos, but more
likely we're just going to talk about life, kitchen appliances.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Who wouldn't really, who wouldn't want to watch Henry fond
to pick blueberries?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay, so I teased this Patrick Mahomes a really great
stat from James Palmer, and I'll get to that here
in a second.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
But here was Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I think this was yesterday talking about what were the
most frustrating part of the loss the Broncos was.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
For me, it was just getting the ball with four
minutes left and not getting points and not getting that
first down or really anything, just being in those moments
before knowing how important it is to kind of get
some momentum in your in your team by at least
moving the ball a little bit and changing the field position.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And not being able to do that was big.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
So that was the most disappointing part for me, because
even though I didn't feel like we played to our
best level, our best standard, we were still an opportunity
to win the football game and we weren't able to
do that.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It seems like.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Maybe the offense is better at this year than it
was last year.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Is it just a matter of just, you know, plays
in the situational for a fall.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
I mean, I think I've pre set for the last
few years is like these games are a couple of
plays here and there. I mean, there's not a lot
of times in this way where you're blowing teams out,
and so it's just a couple of plays here and
there that you have to make. We've been able to
make those plays in these last years and we're not
doing that this year. And now it's about giving ourselves
more opportunities to make those plays, and then when we
get those opportunities, going out there and doing it. And
(10:16):
so I'm excited for it. We had a lot of
good football teams coming up, starting off with the Colts,
but it's a it's a great opportunity to go out
there and get our season turned around and get go
in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I feel like you should be like running brainbow connection
under that. But uh, it was some of your best work.
It's well done, well done. So he brought that up right,
They got the I got you that one. That's good.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
They got the ball with four ten remaining and they
went three and outs. I mean they were incompletion and
completion sack and get got the ball right back to
the Broncos, and the Broncos of course, round the round
the clock and get the field go at the very end.
This is interesting sat here from James Palmer on some
of the reasons why the Chiefs offense isn't having the
success that they're used to. He's having one of per
(11:03):
James having one of his worst seasons of his career
on third down, completing just fifty seven percent of his passes,
four touchdowns and four interceptions, seventy four point one passer rating,
and those are all career lows.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
But it's not that's the result true.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know, you know why he's having the best on
third down because teams are playing quarters on third down
and saying, we'll give you the flats on third down
and take everything else away?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Will you take it? And can you get enough out
of it? And they can't. That's what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Vic Fangiel laid out the blueprint Mass Joseph started it
out Van Joseph when he was here as a head
coach and Joe Woods. They ran a little too high
on on Pat and it slowed in down. It's some
of his worst statistical games against the Broncos back then,
even when he was at the peak of Pat Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Big Fangio got out here and he sort of built
on what advance did.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
He steve random too high, but he ransom quarters match
since he's sixed off with the occasional zero blitz sprinkled
in there, and now you sort of see what the
blueprint is on Mahomes on fourth on third down.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
This is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We're trying to keep you in second plug us and
when you get to third down and six plus, we're
gonna play you to cover four and we're gonna dare
you to take the flats and and you're not gonna
be able to do that. We're gonna take away Kelsey
and make you take the flats.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Also has seen a lot of Shues fans complaining about
the lack of running game. Now, Pat Chuck was hurt,
but they didn't have a great running game even when
he was in there.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
They haven't had a good run game since gosh before
before Clyde Edwards Hilaire was drafted.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
You know that draft pick was Clyde Edwards hilarious.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I mean at the time, coming out of LSU, I
was a big fan. I was wondering why he was
playing running back.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
He's a receiver, like he's a slot receiver playing running
back is what he was. And Mahomes had a lot
of sway and getting that, and it was right before
his contract and so they kind of, you know, they
kind of did that and we're going to they just
haven't had that. I mean, Pacheco when he was in
his prime and not getting hurt. You know, it was
a big part of that because they're so tepid with
that run game that you need somebody that's a feral
(12:51):
animal back there. They're just gonna rip off four, five
to eight yards by being the keep the legs churning guy.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
If you go back and look at Andy Reid's history,
the little these.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Little backs that they're using, the little pass catcher, that's
not his style.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
The reason they get Kareem Hug is that's more his style.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You remember Duke Staley, Correll Buckhalter Westbrook, Nile Davis. You
know he loves those six foot two hundred and thirty pounds.
I'm gonna run you in a straight line forward on
the ISO running backs. That's that's gonna give me second
and six or five to play with. Although I guess
Westbrook was a big running back when he was stout. Yeah,
he was tough, they had sproles, was tough to bring down,
(13:28):
but he usually liked He usually liked those early down
backs and he would get that. And Sean Payton's kind
of the same way, to be honest with you, but
he would love those guys that you could put him
on an ISO and you know, they go get you
four five six yards on first down.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And it makes second and third down easy.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Nick Cosmier joined his Neck to the Kaway Comings for
Hotline to.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Bring on a very good friend of the program, Nick
Cosmi from The Athletic and Nick Cosmiter on Twitter. Nick,
always great to catch up with you, my friend. How's
the bye week treating you?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
It's nice, you know, like actually running down a list
of things that I've probably been putting off for weeks,
if not months. So yeah, it makes my wife happy
and we're doing good.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So you're saying you have your own fourth quarter comeback.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Right, Yeah, you know, like at a certain point, you
just it doesn't matter if you're down by thirty three
or five. You got to make a.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Run at some point. So that's what we're trying to do,
all right.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I really liked I mean, I always liked your articles.
I reference him a lot here on the show, but
I like this one that you were sort of breaking
down the path to the one seed. We'll start there
and then I want to get to your bon mix
stuff because I thought that was really good too. But
you said you seeking around thirteen and four would would
probably do the trick.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And of course there's still a lot to play here.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
The Colts and they're playing this week against the Chiefs,
you got the Patriots, maybe they're playing Joe Burrow and
the Cincinnati Bengals. But thirteen and four feels about right
for you, does it? It?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Does? You know? We use then there's obviously lots of
different simulators you can use, but with ours at the Athletic,
you know, that's kind of the projected finished right now
that they have the Patriots and they're at thirteen and four,
of the Broncos in the two at twelve and five,
So I do think thirteen and four kind of kind
of makes sense, particularly because for me, you look at
that Patriots schedule and they really don't have a tough
(15:15):
road ahead. The one team they have left that has
a winning record right now is the Bills. They get
that game at home, obviously at Baltimore. The way that
the Ravens are playing right now, that'll be a tough contest.
Those are the.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Two toughest games.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Certainly, if you're a Broncos fan, you like that Joe
Burrow is returning in this game. But nonetheless, I just
think you look at two teams that to this point
are nine and two, you know, four and two seems
pretty reasonable that one of these teams, you know, is
kind of going to get to that mark.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, that's the interesting thing here, and I you know,
I kind of penciled him at twelve and five, so
that fits right in the range going going forward. But
I think the interesting thing to me is if you
look at this, say, if they do clinch this this
number one seed, if they do get that, I mean,
there's a scenario here where you're resting guys, you know,
in week eighteen, and you're talking about like.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
A three week period there where you've.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Got the potential for these guys to be down, you know,
kind of getting healthy again. I just not I haven't
seen anything like this, And then you know in Broncos
country in quite some time.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, and it's interesting, Like after the game on Sunday,
and I forget exactly what led into it, if you
guys might remember, but Sean Payton is essentially talking about
you know, one of his saying I think he was
just sort of talking about like doing what you need
to do for your team at any given time, and
he took some criticism for having rested or arm having
(16:34):
played some of his players, but he felt like they
need to or maybe it was the other way around.
Either way, the idea was that, like, you know, he's
always had a pretty good read on what his teams need,
and so you're absolutely right then, like that that could be,
that could be the scenario, you know, because let's say
Baltimore perhaps has you know, I'm sorry, New England has
lost those two games that were that we're talking about,
(16:55):
and maybe to that point, the Broncos have only lost
one and you look at the tiber if it's going
to be them in New England, you know, first's conference record.
After that it's it's a you know, record.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Of combined opponents.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
It helps denver that New England has already lost to
the Raiders this year, you know, something that obviously the
Broncos haven't done. Still have one more game there on
December seventh against Las Vegas. So there's a decent chance.
All that is to say that they you know, could
be in a good tie breaker scenario with the Patriots.
It's why they're currently sitting ahead of them in the
standings right now, even though they have the same record.
(17:29):
So yeah, I don't think that's out of the possibility,
and yeah, it really is when you know that kind
of the bye week is to take some time to
sort of zoom out and look at where they are.
I don't think any of us, really, you know, many
of us thought that that could be the position that
they're in, you know, kind of heading into that big
game in Washington, that they would be nine to two,
and we're having, you know, serious substantive conversations about them
potentially earning a number one seed in the buy that
(17:51):
comes with it.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Cha with the cosmidor from the Athletic you know, you
you you kind of did a nice breakdown here on
Bonnicks and specifically how his team has rallied around him.
Is there something that bo Nicks could be working on
in the bye week? I know the Sean gave them
all week off, but if there was something he could
improve on for these final six games, what would it
be for you?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I would If it was me, I would have started with, hey, like,
let's cut up a lot of the good things that
we did in this game against a really good pass
rush and just have those kind of things sink into
sort of your psyche, like we you know, you go
through and there had been time, there had not been
many times going through his film this year where there
was just kind of the solid climb in the pocket
(18:33):
sometimes but you know, they're run up in the pocket
to kind of create you know, an off platform throw
or whatever the case might be, but just pure you know,
climbing stepping up, it's sort of been few and far between,
and you could point to several examples of that in
the game against Kansas City. And of course what that
does is allows you to manipulate the pressure the way
(18:54):
that you want to, but it also keeps your eyes
down the field in a way that when you just
kind of like run up in the you're not always
necessarily able to do. And I thought his ability to
do that, you know, let guys extend routes create some
separation you know later in the route concept that would
be kind of my thing. Mine would be a like
a kind of a go into this with a real
(19:15):
positive thing of hey, let's let's build on this, because
there was some some really good stuff that you know,
he added to to what he already does well, which
is the you know, the movement, the ability to kind
of you know, be a playmaker, especially late in games
like he often is. You know, I e. The throat,
the twenty yard throat of Courtland Sutton on third and fifteen.
Pair of that, which is kind of more sound trust
(19:36):
in the pocket. I thought there was a lot to like,
and so that would be me. It would just be like, hey,
let's let's kind of build off what we did there
on Sunday against the Chiefs.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, everybody was to focus on Bowl. But you know,
he's answered those questions for me.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You know, he shows up when he needs to and
you know, when the bell rings and he shows up
what he needs to. I think the question here going forward,
as we look at this last third of the season
is what does this run game look like? Both it's
been the Yeah, he's the NFL in passing attempts. Uh.
The run game is wildly ineffective, although you know, to
be fair, wasn't as as needed this past week. You know,
(20:09):
RJ has just not gotten it as a as a
running back, yet Jalil was marginally better. What what are
we going to do here when we're getting into the
data of December and you've got to run the football?
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, it's a great question because you know you're you're
you're somewhat short on options in terms of, like, you know,
different levers that you can pull, like you're you're going
to need r J. Harvey to you know, to get
more reps and hope that he builds on those enough
to where you are trusting him to be, you know,
a guy that becomes a major part of your game plan.
To your point, Ben, in games where you know, running
(20:40):
the football is going to be paramount, not just because
of a you know, controlling the clock type of way
or whatever that might be, but also because of the
weather and not wanting to put the ball in bo
Nix's hands forty times when it's you know, tend degrees
there ad in power field. So that's going to be critical.
And I know that this team has shown a lot
of acumen for being able to close finish close games,
(21:00):
but man, you would love if you're the Broncos going
into these next two against teams with losing records to
be able to get out ahead and really just give
the reps and give the opportunity to really work RJ. Harvey,
Angelo mcloughfin in a way that kind of gives you
confidence that they're starting to kind of build up a
rhythm that to me would be a big priority if
I'm the Broncos, Like, yeah, you need to win these games.
(21:22):
You need to continue to win these games because of
what you're playing for, right, Like if you're trying to
be the number one seed, not a lot of margin
for err, But I think you do kind of have
to balance that with like, let's really get these guys
going so that we can figure out what they can
and can't do collectively as we build our run game.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
For the playoffs in Cosmo or joining us. Last couple
for you Man. Also in your article, he talked about
the secondary a little bit. Would you consider some kind
of rotation there at outside corner, especially when Pastor Tam
comes back. Obviously he's starting on the opposite side, But
for Riley Moss in his position, do you go rotation
there or do you go back to what you were?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I think they're
probably going to look at a couple of these things,
and certainly with pat Down they have they had kind
of created a little bit of an outside rotation. Obviously
it was large it's largely been Chris Abrams strain on
the outside, but you sprinkled John A. Barren into that
role a little bit as well, So maybe there are
certain packages that you like Chris Abrams drain to be
(22:22):
out on the field a little bit more for you know,
obviously they they they're confident in Riley Moss. You know,
no point to the you know, the low completion rate,
his ability to just be competitive and and to get
past things. But you know that they're going to have
to kind of really sort of evaluate almost from a
philosophical level of like this is sort of what this
guy is in terms of right now. He's just at
(22:43):
a point where he's he's collecting a lot of flags
and a lot of big moments, and teams are clearly
hunting that as a way to get down the field. So,
you know, Riley Moss set himself after the game like
there's gonna be a lot of things that he needs
to do that they're going to work on in practice,
whether it's you know, playing corner with boxing gloves on,
so he has to keep his keep his hands off,
you know, as they train for for these upcoming games,
(23:05):
like they're going to need to kind of try all
those things. But I don't have a great answer for you,
but I wouldn't surprise me if they do try to
look at that and say, you know, how can we
get Chris abrams Strand on the field as well, in
part just because he's he's playing really well. That's the
guy you want to continue to have grow and develop.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know, we were talking with Dave Logan earlier.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
We're talking about how, you know, Washington went the NFC
Championship in their first year and they kind of fell
off in the second year, and a lot of that
had to do with the fact they need to reload
on defense, and they went with a munch old free agents.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
It didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
If Broncos have a defense, it's it's pre built, and it's
pre built to be sustained for a few years on
into whenever it is you're going to end up having
to pay both How much of a confidence boost do
you think it is overall for this unit to go
out there and do what they're doing without their best
player and without their their logistics leader in the Green Dot,
and and you know, and and still coming away with
(23:53):
these defensive performances.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Yeah, I think it's kind of wild, honestly, And and
and that's what I think operates this team from the
unit last year. Obviously, Denver had a really good defense
last year, led the league in sacks by a large
margins set a franchise record could always get after the quarterback.
But I just think that if they were lucky last
year to not have to have dealt with a lot
(24:16):
of the injuries that we're seeing creeping up, they didn't
rest on that as some sort of thing where you're like, Oh,
this is how it's going to be every year, even
though you know Sean Payton says, you kind of like
to you feel like you earn what you have injury wise.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Look, we all know.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
That there's huge variants to injuries. You're going to have
them at some point, and right now the Broncos have
dealt with them a little bit more than they did
in either Sean Payton's first two years. They've also they're
also more equipped than at any other time to deal
with those, and I think that's been a really important
part of the latter part of this win streak. Like
when Patzertan went down, if you said, hey, we're going
(24:50):
to be we're going to be three and oh before
we get him back in Washington. You're gonna feel great
about that if for no other reason than like, that's
your best football player and you found a way to
win without him. And then yeah, again, you had guys
that were starters last year, like Justin Surnad. Now he's
a fill in guy who plays at a starter level.
That's not a luxury a lot of teams have. And
(25:10):
it's a testament to George Peyton and Sean Payton the
way that they've built this roster.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
So your guy, Robert Mays on the podcast today said
that if the Broncos win the Super Bowl, he's gonna
shave his head. Are you going to help with that?
Since you cover the Broncos, I'd be happy to.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I Actually, I was just cleaning some stuff off for
that honeydew list and found this old pair of like
clippers from COVID when I tried to cut my own hair,
and obviously I burned all evidence of that existing.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
But yeah, so I've.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Got the clippers not really used, so I'll be happy
to send Robert does or help them in whatever way
I could, you know, video it or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
He needs those guys, And again, I think they do
a really good job I listened to a lot of
national pods just kind of get a sense of how
different people are talking about the Broncos outside of the market.
And yeah, that they have not been the biggest bon
Nicks guy, and I can understand that from the pre
draft process to some of his inconsistencies, But there's the
they basically said that they just don't believe this team
(26:09):
has what it takes to win a championship, and they
took the Chiefs ahead of them even that sitting at
the nine seed, as in more belief in their ability
to win a championship, which I guess I could kind
of understand based on priors, but also it's a little
weird to me.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Yeah, I mean, there's like there's one school of thought.
I think, like, you know, as much as I'm sure
you guys and plenty of others have had fun with Nick, right,
like the one thing that he said that it's like, okay,
I see that where he said something to the effect
of like I'm gonna go ahead and just wait one
year until the Chiefs aren't in the Super Bowl or
you know, in the AFT Championship before I you know,
just kind of declare them to declare them dead, and
(26:48):
I think you've earned sort of some of the benefits
of doubt, even though now they have this scrape just
to get into the playoffs. I think the one thing
and maybe this is like a bigger picture sort of
like critique on what we do sometimes you know, from
a national media perspective. But but all of this is
there's always this yearning to put like a certain game
(27:08):
into a larger context like all the time. And what
that does is it presents just this like week by week,
like this is what we've decided a person is, this
is how it's going. Well, ignoring the fact that so
much of this is an arc, like it really is
like a marathon. Like if you had done this to
John Elways for like this didn't exist back then, but
you'd be saying, like God, what a bum, Like what
(27:30):
do he complete his passes today?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Or whoever?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Is like you know, and so it just is this
kind of that's the machine. It's just like everything has
to be instead of just evaluating the game or like
you know, talking about this that there tends to be
and it's not singling anybody. I just I think we're
all guilty of that at times of like wanting to
put it into a larger context or a larger conversation
(27:53):
all the time instead of just as this was this game,
he did this well, this is something that he did
do well, like he's going to have to continue to grow.
And then you know, then you look back on it
later and just say, like, this is sort of the
trend that we see. You know, I get it, you
understand why it works that way. But I think that's
where you get some of that stuff is just like
this is the trend, like we are seeing this and
(28:14):
when we've created this like narrative and so you know,
now you're just sticking with it as opposed to maybe
just really kind of getting in there and looking at
it game by game.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
As perfectly said my friend, always great. We will see
you out of practice next week.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
All right, thanks a lot, tak Care.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I appreciate it's an the cosmic from the athletic always great.
Love his work. Robert Mays, Millie Mays rough don't matter
Broncos in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I mean, for I had nineteenth President of the United
States there.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
But pretty good. I mean I understand where they're coming
from a little bit. And there's a little bit of
that confirmation bias, and I think to the next point there,
and I think them there's a lot of people out
there that have taken their shots at bo Nicks for
for multitude of different reasons.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So he did play a good game against can't say Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
You acknowledge that at the beginning of the show, and
we've all acknowledged that, even they acknowledged he played a good.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Game against the Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
But there's this, like what I thought about him coming
out of college, what he's been at the pro level.
There's I've asked this question before, like how many games
or how many years or seasons does he have to
play to move beyond priors whatever you thought about him before,
because he hasn't done enough right now to change many minds,
whether you were pro Bonnicks or anti bon Nicks. And
(29:25):
that's extremes, but you know what I'm saying, like it
confirms things when he has games like the Raiders.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Game, Well, that's that's what I thought he'd be.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I knew he wasn't a very good quarterback, and then
he goes out and has a good game and you're like, well,
I mean, but that was one off. I got to
see a lot more, you know what I'm saying, I
got to see a lot more of the Raiders game
before I'm dogging him that much, you know, turn him
into teable. The reality is when Bo came out, I
called him Derek Carr, and I kind of stand by that.
He's Derek Carr with a winner gene, you know. I mean,
he's Derek Carr, but a winner at the end of
the day. I mean I stand by that.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
You know, Derek Carr was the guy who's you know,
screenplays in deep shots and then for medicism.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Than anything you knew that he had.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And yeah, and then people didn't love that you used
that comp but just for a moment, like, what would
it take for you to come off of that comp
and give.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Him a better one?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
See, I I'm not gonna come off of that. I
don't think.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I think most people can come off their view of
what Derek Carr was and go back and look at
what Derek Carr was. Derek Carr is a winner. Is
as a compliment, Derek Carr was a top third league quarterback.
Is that I'm not I'm not wrong. It's you people,
They're stupid, But That's what I'm trying to get at,
is just like, yeah, everybody's everyone, myself included. It's stuck
(30:33):
in those in those sort of prior you know, thought
thought spaces that they had.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
But I mean not, I haven't seen anything to shake
me off that. I The difference is is.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
That I thought Derek Carr was better than everybody else
thinks Derek Carr is. At what point? At what point
do you feel like we can assess?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
So what do I what do I? What do I
upgrade him to?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Diet Tony Romo? I mean, well, then that's also a pjorative.
I'm saying, like it Tony was a successful we were
to die at anybody.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
You know, he doesn't have quite the you know that
Tony Romo did well.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I know, but I mean you know that, like if
you're saying diet anybody, it's always going to be a pejority.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
But my point of it is is that.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
The rich man's Alex Smith.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I'm trying to decide at what point we can assess that,
and maybe we we just shouldn't and just sort of
let it play out. But I know that it's not
how we do things in society and society we have
to have a label, we have.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
To have comparisons, quantify, qualify, right, So I'm like, it's
all fair when you're saying, well, he hasn't risen above.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Whatever this bar I have for the comp or the prior,
and that's fire. I mean he hasn't, you know, And
there are many stats, advanced analytics or otherwise I would
say he has not cleared some of those bars. But
then he keeps doing these comebacks and he's now is
the first quarterback in history to have what is a
nine fourth quarter comebacks in the first two seasons and
he's still going. And that that is also something that matters.
(31:52):
It really does matter. And I don't remember Derek Carr
being that great at that.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
All the time.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Well he wasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's why I put the badge on there is that
Derek carrxcept these winner. You know, Derek Carr didn't have
that dig deep in the fourth quarter. And some of
that was some of that was the lack of talent
that he's in the bad coaching he had. But in
terms of tools and archetypes and what he brings to
the table and all that kind of stuff, that's kind
of what he is you could win with.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
That if you got the right talent around it.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
I mean, listen, I'm with you, and I'm not as
down on Derek Carr as some but you understand here
and Broadcasa And that's sort of the.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Reason I'm hammering hot home because it's a little bit
antagonistic time you But I'm right, what, like, Derek Carr
was a decent quarterback and because he played for the Raiders,
nobody here's ever going.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
To admit that, well, he certainly gave the Broncos fits.
I'm just say it for you, like you should.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
We should, we should look at that and be like, yeah,
I kind of gave us a tell for for a
couple of years, believe it or not. He was better
than people gave him credit for it. But he played
with the Raiders. But when the bottom fell out for
Derek Carr fell out. I mean, but when the bottom
falls out for a minute, look at Geno right now.
Gino was ball in the last couple of years. The
bottom fell out for him. No, but the bottom fell out,
and like he didn't have a very long career, bottom
(32:58):
fell out.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, those kinds of injuries at the end, right you know, Rack,
So that's That's where my mind goes is like, well,
that's not that's not a franchise, long term franchise quarterback.
That is a guy that you probably give a second
contract to, but you're probably thinking.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
About, well, we have the benefit of hindsight with that.
With Derek Carr, you would have given you gave him
a second and you would have given him a third
contract in those cases if all things being equal.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
And you had a lot of coaching change and like
you said, turnover and they kept drafting the weirdest players
around him. So all that's fair. So back to Boonicks,
though I don't know what it'll take. I do think
that a deep playoff run, and especially we're not hold
on a deep playoff run where he isn't just along
(33:37):
for the ride, and I don't even think he's been
quote unquote along the ride.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Like that's the thing Like this, I know what it's
like to be entrenched in those those things, and what
you're going to get is excuses for why it happened.
He could he could win the next three Super Bowls
and you're gonna have a well, that great defense and
the coaching, the people who they people don't.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Admit when they're wrong. People just don't. And and so
I mean, I know we have fun with that here
on the show.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
But I'm looking right at you. I've had more than
plenty of off the air. I'm happy to have me
and I'm wrong like you, I'll come right in here
and do it. But and I like this is gonna
sound weird. I like being wrong, you know, like I
like having growth experiences. I like being able to learn
from something, you know, and that's how you learn, I
said being wrong, But at the same time, like people
who they don't like to be wrong, and they will
(34:22):
twist themselves into any number of pretzels, mental pretzels to
try to get themselves to continue to think they're right.
I liken it to the tebow phenomenon. Right that should
never have happened. None of that stuff should have been happened.
And I'm sitting here twisting myself in a knoz. Well, okay,
so we had this this.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
And at the end of the day, man, it's just
it's football.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
The guy was a great athlete, the ball happened to
bounce the right way, it all came together at the
right time.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
That kind of stuff with baul All as a starter
in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Anybody who's trying to sell you otherwise an idiot, and
then you just go from there.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.