March 25, 2022 • 45 mins
Dr. Kvitko is in the studio to share his experience with taking on Delta Dental and why class actions are designed to only benefit the lawyers involved, not the consumer.
Plus, hurry to the bank to cash your AT&T settlement check for $1.27 while your lawyer makes millions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Sat down.
No. By myself.
Bret: Just like you do. (00:13):
undefined
Welcome to Lawyers Are Assholes.
I'm your host, Bret Adams, a lawyer, I should say, a
recovering lawyer who found a platform to address a broken
legal system. This is where we call out incompetent and
unscrupulous lawyers, prosecutors and judges.
Anyone that touches the legal system, we're coming after
you if you're an asshole.
(00:34):
Today's guest is Brian Kvitko.
Dr. Kvitko has been a long time friend of mine.
He is the Columbus, Ohio dentist to the stars.
But I know Doc Kvitko through his ongoing battle with Delta
Dental. And we're going to talk about class action lawsuits
today. And I think you're going to enjoy his take on how we
(00:56):
deal with these type of lawyers.
Now to our asshole of the week.
Now, this this judge out of the middle district of Georgia
is named C Ashley Royall.
Now, I don't know what it is with these guys with three
names. I don't know if it's a if he's anatomically
challenged, has an issue with self-confidence.
But this is the second podcast in a row.
(01:18):
I'm dealing with a judge, a prosecutor with with three
names. But let me tell you what this asshole did.
He fired a law clerk by the name of Caitlin Clarke ten days
before her baby was born.
Now, let me tell you a little bit about Caitlin Clarke.
She graduated 13th out of a class of 123 at Mercer
(01:42):
University. She was the law school law review editor, moot
court competition coach.
And I bring that up to talk about her intellect, which this
judge insults her with.
But anyway, she had received a raise and an offer to extend
a two year clerkship with this judge in January 2020.
And at that time, she disclosed to the judge that she was
(02:06):
pregnant. And so follow me along here.
So when once she realized or the judge realized she was
pregnant, he took a different attitude.
Now this comes out of actual transcripts because she filed
a complaint, which we'll talk about.
But but this judge meets Caitlin Clarke.
(02:28):
She's five months pregnant, meets, meets, ask her to come
to his house. This is the actual transfer of Caitlin.
I don't know why you're not getting the work done, but I
have three ideas.
The first one is you aren't smart enough to do the work.
Okay, now what a condescending asshole.
What? What condescending, arrogant asshole would say that?
Well, of course this judge did.
(02:48):
The second one is Your heart is not in the job.
The third one is because you don't have the intensity to do
the job. I don't know which one of it is, but but this is
not working out.
Now, there was a note taker there who also said that the
judge said this to Caitlin.
Now, while this may be a good mommy job, work still has to
get done. Now, not only is he a condescending asshole, he
(03:11):
is a sexist asshole.
Now, here's what most people I'm going to tell you
something here, that the average person on the street would
just you can't comprehend this.
The federal judiciary, there's 30,000 employees.
And the federal laws that prohibit workplace discrimination
and retaliation do not apply to these 30,000 workers.
(03:35):
Now, I mean, you would think of any place that you would
enforce this, wouldn't it be as part of that part of the
judiciary? I mean, it's just it's incredible.
So so she files a complaint.
And I got to tell you about my experience in filing a
complaint. And under the federal system, incredulously, she
(03:56):
files a formal administrative complaint.
And guess who the complaint goes to?
It goes to the presiding judge in the neighboring district,
this asshole, Judge Jay Randall Hall.
He actually hears the complaint.
He doesn't hear it. There's no testimony.
But he reviews the facts and basically says, you're fired
for poor work performance.
(04:18):
Judge has no liability.
Now you talk about the fox guarding the hen house.
I mean, this is just insane.
This is insane that a a federal review a review of a
judicial complaint goes to the neighboring judge.
Now, what neighboring judge is going to is going to pound
on a judge that he probably knows personally.
(04:38):
Now, fortunately, she was able to to to find an employment
discrimination lawyer, and they've appealed it and he says
it the best, her lawyer says, and allowing the judiciary to
operate as its own investigator and arbiter.
There's no meaningful path for a judicial employee to make
a confidential complaint, obtain an independent
investigation of the complaint, and if so, dissatisfied
(05:01):
with the outcome of that investigation, pursue the claim
through the means available virtually to every employee.
So in sum, you've got a law clerk that gets exemplary
marks. I forgot to mention she got a pay raise.
They extended her employment and she becomes pregnant.
You fire her ten days before she delivers the baby.
(05:23):
Now, my opinion, it's totally based on she had maternity
leave. This this judge went and hired somebody else.
I mean, it's outrageous.
It's just absolutely outrageous.
So you, Mr.
Royale, with three names, are the asshole of the week.
Welcome welcome Dr.
Kvitko to Lawyers Are Assholes.
Now people are going to say why?
(05:45):
Why is Dr.
Kvitko the dentist to the stars here on a legal show
badmouthing lawyers?
And but first, I want to talk about a little bit of our
history, because you've actually done some some really good
work on some some clients of mine, Ted Williams, The Golden
Voice. And then you did Dominic Ryan guard from from I want
(06:11):
to say America's top.
Dr. Kvitko: Model, America's Next Top. (06:12):
undefined
Bret: Model. It is America's Next Top model. (06:13):
undefined
So you're more into it than than than I am.
So but anyway, we you became familiar with and we've been
friends for a long time and you became familiar with my
podcast and said, hey, I want to talk about Delta Dental.
And so I went and I did some research and and believe it or
(06:33):
not, we don't just go in there and wing it.
We actually do some research for these for these episodes.
And what I found out was just unbelievable.
Just unbelievable.
It's just unbelievable. We're going to talk about class
actions, but give us a little overview of of what's your
issue with Delta Dental?
Dr. Kvitko: So in 2006, at the end of 2006, they sent a letter to all (06:50):
undefined
dentists who were on their list and said, if you're still
on our list in 2007, we're going to tell you what you can
charge for things that we don't even cover.
So they don't pay for whitening, but they were going to
tell us how much we could charge for it.
They don't pay for porcelain veneers, but they were going
to tell us how much we could charge for it.
(07:11):
And I looked it up and I discovered that it had already
been made illegal in a couple of states.
New Hampshire was one of them.
And I thought, you know what, I'm not going to do this
because it doesn't feel right.
And so I went off their list and I'm thinking that within,
oh, a year or two, other states will have made it illegal
as well, including Ohio.
(07:31):
And I can go back on the list.
Well, it's let me think, 2006, it's now 16 years later, and
it's still not illegal in Ohio.
After about seven years of being off the list, I went back
on the list because I felt like I had no choice.
Patients were leaving. Why aren't you on my list?
Why can't I? You know, why aren't you accepting Delta
Dental? I said, Well, I do, but I wasn't on the list, which
(07:54):
means they weren't getting a discounted fees.
So I met with 22 different state representatives and
senators in Ohio.
I spent all kinds of time trying to get them to make it
illegal. There have been bills introduced every two years
to make it illegal, and every two years it just sits there.
It doesn't even get a hearing most.
Bret: Of the time. It's safe to say that the primary only reason (08:15):
undefined
for that is the dental lobby.
The insurance lobby.
Speaker2: Oh, it's very obvious. (08:22):
undefined
So, for example, I had a meeting with then-Senator Jim
Hewes, who happens to be an attorney.
So that might tie into this show because I wanted to talk
to him about it, and we set an appointment.
Now, remember, I'm a dentist.
And so to do these appointments, they're always starting
the day I had to, like block off patients.
It's costing me money. But I felt like I was doing a
(08:42):
service to the patients and the dental community.
So but when I show up, the Delta dental lobbyist is sitting
there in his office already.
He didn't tell me she was invited.
I didn't know she'd be invited.
And that became the most obvious sign that this was rigged
and that the people who write the checks to help them get
(09:04):
elected or whatever they use the money for, whether it's
tickets to events or whatever.
That's why it's still illegal in Ohio now, by the way.
Delta Dental, the one that is over Ohio, is a is three
states. We have like a large Delta dental company or group,
whatever they consider themselves.
And so they're Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.
And when I was doing this, I had a map that I would give to
(09:25):
each state senator and representative who met with me.
They're all willing to meet with you, but then they don't
do anything about it. And there were 41 states that had
made it illegal, probably up to about 44 by now.
And I'm thinking, what company?
Okay, let's put it in my perspective.
If I found out there was something that I was doing that
was made illegal in 44 states, I'd probably just stop.
(09:47):
I would just stop. I'd like if nothing else, it's morally
wrong, right, to keep doing this if it's been made illegal
in almost every state in the country, not Delta Dental.
They just keep going. They just keep buying off the
senators and congressmen and, you know, state reps.
Speaker1: Right. Well, here's here's what I found in my research. (10:01):
undefined
And I think that I figured out why they really don't care
about the class action or how long the class action takes.
Like, for example, a few years ago, California did the same
thing that Illinois is doing.
We're going to delve into the Illinois case here in a
(10:21):
second. But they settled that.
Those antitrust issues and what you're talking about in
terms of the payment for $65.
That case goes on for an extended period of time, four or
five years. Well, they're going to pay $65 million while
they're collecting three or four or $500 million worth of
(10:42):
payments they wouldn't have ordinarily collected.
Right. So they really don't care.
And and it was interesting in the Illinois case, because
it's not even scheduled.
I got the scheduling order for this federal federal case in
Illinois where the case is.
The discovery is not done until mid 2023.
(11:04):
And those Delta lawyers, they don't care.
They don't they don't care.
I mean, their.
Speaker2: Salary, they're getting paid regardless. (11:08):
undefined
Speaker1: And the how long it takes because they're they're collecting (11:11):
undefined
these payments where where once they reach a a settlement
and they pay out to the class members, you know, minuscule
amount of money, which is probably what you're looking at.
I mean, despite all of this effort, this lobbying effort
and the time that you put into it, I mean, at the end of
the day, it's certainly not going to be worth your time
(11:33):
because you're the one that's put the time into it to try
to make something happen. But what happened?
What happened? Did you confront that lobbyist in in Jim
Hewes office or say, hey, what's going on here?
Speaker2: Oh, yeah, no. I told her what was on my mind and everything (11:44):
undefined
and she already knew and she didn't care.
That's what you know, she's just there to protect their
interests. Let me just tell you, you mentioned antitrust,
so I don't think people understand there are only two
businesses in this country that have an exemption against
antitrust laws.
It's the insurance industry and the and the sports
industry, right?
(12:05):
Yeah. You know that because your sports.
Yeah. Okay.
Speaker1: Yeah. (12:06):
undefined
Speaker2: So how did that happen? (12:07):
undefined
In 1945, Congress passed the McCarran Ferguson Act.
Now, if you've ever gone to Las Vegas, you'll know that.
You'll know that you land at McCarran Field.
So I think McCarran Field was named after whatever senator
or congressman proposed this back in 1945.
And the insurance companies went to Congress and said,
look, we need to have the ability to talk to each other
(12:29):
because this is a new product.
We don't know how to price it.
We don't know how much money we're gonna have to have
sitting around. And so we need an exemption.
And it all made sense back then because there weren't
computers yet, right?
There wasn't. It was. Hard to actually corroborate or
collaborate on your data.
So they passed the McCarran Ferguson Act.
And so since 1945, which would be, what, 55, 77 years, the
(12:54):
insurance companies have had this.
See, if I get together with the dentists across the street
and I say, Hey, let's not charge any more than 1200 dollars
per crown, well, that's an antitrust violation.
And I get I get in trouble.
I would get a prison sentence or fine or both.
But insurance companies not only can, but they they do
share they share all of this information.
And now with computers, they know more about me than I know
(13:16):
about me. They do.
And so one of the things that I've been trying to do is to
get the McCarran Ferguson Act repealed.
Now, I happen to in my other radio show that I've done, I
was able to interview Dr.
I'm sorry, Congressman Paul Gosar from Arizona, and I think
it might be the 16th District.
And he's proposed legislation to withdraw that it's not
(13:40):
gone anywhere. I think he keeps proposing it.
And so think about it.
Here's an example. I had a I decided I was going to switch
insurance companies because I wasn't happy with, um, with
my, the State Farm wasn't happy with them.
So I got with my other agent because I had two different, I
had like auto here and home there.
(14:01):
I wasn't one of the ones that did everything and one with
one company. And so I had this little literally little tiny
little fender bender. And I thought, you know what?
It's not enough to worry about.
It's a little it's a scratch or whatever.
I'll, I'll take care of it.
And so, um, I wasn't going to do anything.
And then I found out that State Farm was gonna, in my
(14:21):
opinion, screw me over on a different thing on my motor
home. And I thought, you know what?
To heck with that. Why would I look the other way?
Or Why would I pay this out of pocket?
I still have coverage for another two weeks, so I turned it
in, but I'd already gotten a quote from the new company, so
I knew I was going to be leaving in two weeks.
I turned in the claim. So two weeks goes by.
I get a call from my new agent.
(14:43):
He goes, What about that claim for your car?
I go, What are you talking about? He goes, You know the
little fender bender you just had with your Mercedes?
I said, Well, how'd you know about that?
Well, they have a clearinghouse.
All the information goes to a big computer room.
I don't know if people know this.
And so I now I had to explain that and it almost affected
my new the rates on my new policy.
(15:04):
Right. So anyway, yeah, they have way too much latitude,
way too much power.
And in my opinion, they don't care about your health.
They don't, in my opinion.
But all they care about is how much money are they gonna
make and how can they figure out ways to make more?
Which would have been this, Hey, let's say we're not going
to pay for things that we don't even cover or that we're.
Speaker1: So how does it affect you individually? (15:23):
undefined
And you're in your office and your if you didn't have I
mean, you have to have them, right?
I mean.
Speaker2: We're locked into it because we have no choice. (15:30):
undefined
They're really good at getting new clients.
And so if you if you live in a place like I do, Columbus,
where Ohio State University is covered by Delta, a lot of
other companies, and if you're not on their list, you're
really going to be kind of left out and they know that.
But how did they get so big?
Who knows? I don't know how they got so big other than, you
(15:51):
know, giving the impression that you have more.
Here's the thing. Did you know that, first of all, Delta
Dental was started by dentists?
Six of them, if I remember this right, in about 1960, the
reason they started it was because up to that point, the
insurance industry said, you can't we can't insure dental
disease because 100% of the people have it.
And they're right. If you take into account periodontal
(16:12):
disease, which is gingivitis, which is just inflamed gums,
everybody has it, so to say we can't do this and make
money. So the dentists decided they were going to prove to
the insurance industry that they could actually make money.
So it was the dentists that came up with it wasn't called
Delta Dental back then, but they said, you know what, let's
figure out a way that we can prove to the insurance
companies, how about we have them pay?
We we'll pay 100% for cleanings and and exams and x rays,
(16:35):
but maybe we don't pay 100% for fillings.
Let's pay 80%.
Let's pay only half of the cost of an expensive item like a
crown or a denture.
And then you know what?
Really prove to the insurance companies that they can make
money. We'll put a cap on how much they'll have to spend
per patient per year.
And it was $1,000.
That's how it came out.
Now, after a few years of this.
(16:56):
And by the way, in order to pay a claim, you have to
receive a request from a dentist.
Well, that dentist is now finding himself or herself,
sending in their personal data to other dentists.
Right. This was now owned by other dentists and they didn't
like that. So there were some dentists who brought a
lawsuit and said, this isn't right.
(17:16):
This is I shouldn't have to send private information to
these other dentists. They're competitors of mine.
And the courts agreed and said that they had to divest
themselves of this side business, and that's when it became
Delta Dental. So back in 1960 1000, I'm telling you about
how many people out there listening know that their dental
insurance still only pays $1,000 a year or maybe 1500 well
(17:40):
in 1960. Around average rent was $99.
Gas was $0.25 a gallon.
On average, car price was $2,200.
The average house price was $12,000.
And, you know, it could go on and on.
And and so what's happening now is how how many years
tonight, 62 years later, I'm doing the math, right?
(18:01):
Yeah. No, yeah.
62 years later, they're still giving us 1960 money to pay
for dental care. So the reality is, if people would really
kind of wake up and think about this Delta Dental and the
other insurance companies, they don't pay enough of the
bill where they should have any say at all, in my opinion,
of course, any say because here's you know if you just
(18:22):
extrapolate forward using cost of living increases in just
2010 which was the last time I did the math, the yearly max
should have been $18,464.
Well, that's 12 years ago.
It should probably be 27,000 a year, a yearly max, just to
equate back to 1960.
Speaker1: Wow. Wow. (18:40):
undefined
So your legislative efforts went nowhere?
No and no. And so basically at this point, you're waiting
you're waiting for potentially the same group of lawyers
that did the California case, the the Illinois case, to
come here and do this three states, because they're they're
basically six states left that that are not subject to the
(19:05):
antitrust regulation.
Right. Is that so you're just so you're waiting for a law
firm to come along and you'll waste further time.
They'll make all the money is right.
They usually do.
And for example, you know, tell our listeners about this
case in Illinois.
There's a schedule for those laypersons getting orders
(19:27):
where the court lays out, we're going to we're going to
have this discovery period number of people.
You're going to talk to a number of depositions with this
scheduled order that this 75 year old judge issued, 75 year
old judge in Illinois extends this out to to 2023.
But the first thing that caught my attention in here was
(19:49):
the number of depositions and again, research, this judge,
administrative judge, not not a real lawyer, as most of
these federal appointments, they're just not real lawyers.
They've never practiced freaking law.
They're probably donors and and so well you are because
most federal most federal judges, former prosecutors,
(20:11):
they're their political appointees, their political
appointments. And, you know, whether if you've got a a
Democratic president, a Republican president, you're going
to get you're going to get Democratic nominees or
Republican nominees.
And I've said this before, I don't care if my judge is a
Democrat, I'd like him to be competent and I'd like a
(20:32):
federal prosecutor that's dealing with significant civil
cases. Not to have been their only experience in the
practice of law has been federal prosecutions.
Right. And there's so few of those.
I mean, they act like, you know, they work their ass off
and, you know, they prosecute, I mean, a limited number of
people a year and only cases that they know they can
(20:54):
absolutely win.
It's such a farce. It's just such a farce.
Speaker2: Can I interject a little? (20:58):
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Speaker1: Absolutely. (20:59):
undefined
Speaker2: Without naming any names, we were good friends with a couple (21:01):
undefined
where the husband was a lawyer and then became a judge, and
he was very excited about being a judge.
And he would go in and he was working through his docket
and he got in trouble with the other judges.
They called him into their office and they said, You need
to slow down. You're making us look bad.
Stop. Just take Fridays off, go golfing, you know.
Speaker1: Yeah. (21:23):
undefined
Speaker2: And the point is, is there's so much more work that could (21:24):
undefined
get done in these one year time frames.
Could be six months if they would actually earn their
income.
Speaker1: Oh, it's ridiculous. When I was practicing. (21:31):
undefined
Speaker2: So you already know. (21:34):
undefined
Speaker1: Oh, no, I experienced it firsthand. (21:35):
undefined
I mean, I when I was if you try to find a judge in Franklin
County, Ohio, musical police, please judge on a on a summer
afternoon, Thursday or Friday afternoon to I mean, forget
it.
Speaker2: You have to go to the golf course. (21:50):
undefined
Speaker1: Forget it. It's it's a joke. (21:51):
undefined
It is an absolute joke because because it goes back to
there's no accountability.
And it's just what you just said.
I mean, who's going to I mean, it's the administrative
judge who's actually entitled only because, you know, he's
got elected the same way these other unqualified judges got
(22:12):
elected. Who's going to tell them they need to work harder?
Who's going to tell them that that that if somebody, a
client is paying a lawyer by the hour to be there for a
9:00 hearing, the judge shows up at 930.
I mean, where's the accountability?
Speaker2: There is none in that case that cost the client another 150 (22:26):
undefined
bucks.
Speaker1: It does. And that's that's why we're doing this podcast, (22:29):
undefined
because we're going to call these people out.
Speaker2: And by the way, Jim Hughes is a judge now. (22:33):
undefined
Speaker1: Yes, I'm going to. (22:36):
undefined
Yeah. I mean, I like Jim.
Speaker2: Oh, I know we're friends. (22:44):
undefined
Speaker1: We were friends at the time, but but yeah, I mean, and we've (22:45):
undefined
had, you know, whether he's qualified or not, whether you
practice law, I mean, you should have actually tried a case
before you become judge.
And and so many of these canned and even our probate
probate judge, you actually, like, never had a probate
case, never had a probate case in his entire career.
(23:06):
And he suddenly the probate judge.
So so anyway, back to back to badmouthing these class
action lawyers and and this judge.
So so this judge this this Elaine Buck Low who who doesn't
have the real life experience that we all have.
Probably not.
Probably. She's looked at at the other class action
(23:29):
lawsuits, how they've handled them in federal court.
And she thinks this is normal.
Right. So so she doesn't care what the schedule is.
But if she would, she would have the the business acumen or
the courage to sit down with these class action lawyers and
the defense lawyers sit in a room and say, guys, we really
need 95 depositions on each side to prove or disprove
(23:53):
whether there's the antitrust issues here.
Do we really need 95 depositions?
Well, the lawyers are going to say yes.
Speaker2: Because we can bill for it, because we can 5. (23:59):
undefined
Speaker1: Hours bill for those. (24:01):
undefined
We can bill. And the system allows that to happen because
you don't have you don't have strong judges that will say
this is bullshit.
Speaker2: Yeah. And by the way, I said that wrong. (24:12):
undefined
The depositions can go on as long as the attorneys want
them to. There's no there's no limit.
It could be all day. It could be five days.
It could be ten days. So it could be thousands of dollars
per deposition. Right.
Speaker1: Right. Especially if you don't have if you don't have a (24:24):
undefined
judge, it's paying attention to to things.
Now, some judges that, you know, if you call the court and
say, hey, this this is you know, we've got the information,
this is just harassment.
And, you know, the judge or a competent judge will
intervene, but not at this federal level.
Not not with with 95 depositions.
(24:45):
You know, you've got you've got a history in these other
jurisdictions. I mean, the reality is you could use that
same evidence in California as you could.
I don't think dentistry doc, you can correct me if I'm
wrong, practice a whole lot differently in Illinois than it
is.
Speaker2: California, though. It's exactly the same, right? (24:59):
undefined
It's exactly the same.
Speaker1: So so why why the necessity for because this judge is just (25:02):
undefined
either either not aware of it.
It doesn't want to challenge the system.
I mean, I'm not age discrimination here, but 75 years old,
maybe she just doesn't care at this point.
Maybe she doesn't care.
And maybe she's friends with these lawyers on both sides
(25:23):
that are just going to continue to rack up the fees.
But I'm afraid you're going to be in the same be in the
same situation.
Speaker2: Oh, I've actually resolved myself. (25:30):
undefined
That is never gonna happen in my lifetime.
Well, you're not any.
Speaker1: Better. You're not that old. They'll get this case done and. (25:37):
undefined
Speaker2: Well, that's Illinois. We're not talking about Ohio, (25:39):
undefined
Indiana, Michigan.
Speaker1: Right, right, right. And then again, when you talk about a (25:42):
undefined
class action that's a little bit different, it's it's
corporately. But I want to I want to bring everybody's
attention to a class action case that's going on right now
in in Franklin County, Ohio.
Columbus, Ohio, where there's a group of lawyers that's
representing a class. A class was certified in a period of
(26:02):
time in the in 2011, 13, 14, where women that would go in
and be booked into the jail would have their tattoos
photographed.
Speaker2: Photographed. Right. I remember reading about that. (26:14):
undefined
So they were naked.
Speaker1: Basically naked. I mean, they're naked. (26:17):
undefined
Okay. Now, how so?
The class, the proposed settlement is two and a half
million dollars. The lawyers are getting $830,000.
Okay. The principal original plaintiffs getting $50,000.
Speaker2: Which is chump change. (26:36):
undefined
Speaker1: Which is chump change. But the individual class person is (26:37):
undefined
getting $2,000.
Speaker2: Right. (26:41):
undefined
Speaker1: Now. How the hell is that fair? (26:42):
undefined
Speaker2: It's not. (26:45):
undefined
Speaker1: It's not. I mean, and it isn't. (26:46):
undefined
It isn't. And we're going to talk about at the end when I
do my rant, because there is a solution for it is you take
the lawyers out of the equation and not I don't want
government to solve all of our problems, but there's an
easier way to do it then than have these lawyers that do
nothing but hustle these class action lawsuits.
(27:07):
Now, you know, if anybody that's listening, it's part of
this opt out of this class because you're going to get more
than from some of the cases I've heard, you know, you're
going to get more than 2000.
So here's the other. The problem with that particular case
is somebody in that jail system, whoever's running that
jail, made this pervert made a decision to do that.
(27:27):
Right. Okay. Instead of looking and of course, you want to
compensate the people who've been victimized by it.
But where is the accountability for that asshole that made
this rule? I mean, can you imagine if it was your daughter?
Your wife got got arrested and you've got some perverts in
the jail taking pictures of their boobs because it's got a
(27:48):
tattoo on it.
I mean, it's two and one half million, $2,000 a person.
That's insulting.
It's embarrassing.
And it's embarrassing that the county, which is going to
sign off on this, would would think that that's we think
that that's appropriate.
Speaker2: So I guess I assumed that maybe incorrectly that the person (28:04):
undefined
who made that decision because the county's going to have
to pay out millions of dollars, would be losing their job.
Am I wrong?
Speaker1: Well, I don't know about the person making the decision on (28:12):
undefined
the payout, but the person that actually.
Speaker2: No, the person that made the decision to say, let's take (28:16):
undefined
these pictures.
Speaker1: Naked, we should be fired. (28:19):
undefined
Speaker2: Yeah, but have they been? (28:20):
undefined
Speaker1: Not. Not. Not to my knowledge. (28:22):
undefined
Yeah. Not to my. Not to my knowledge.
But but there's but again, there's one person.
But, you know, they're all probably laughing about this.
I mean, there had to be more than one person in there.
But again, it goes back to one of the reasons that I did
this podcast was to try to to really attribute
accountability to stupid people or people that are making
(28:44):
these decisions.
Speaker2: So I know we're talking about dental insurance, but I just (28:45):
undefined
want to throw out throw this out as well.
So life insurance, it's basically the insurance industry
that I think we're talking about.
So in life insurance, there are cases where the insurance
company knows that this person died.
They have a copy of their of their death certificate in the
file. But since none of the family members knew they had a
life insurance policy, they don't pay out.
(29:08):
Now, if you know that your client has died and it's you
have their death certificate, you also know where they had
the funeral, which means you could you could contact the
funeral home, get the name and phone number of next of kin
and say, by the way, your dad had a life insurance policy.
We want you to come down and we'll fill out the paperwork.
(29:28):
But they don't even if they know the person died and they
know how to reach the family, they don't.
Speaker1: We would need I could do 100, 100 episodes of this podcast (29:33):
undefined
on how bad insurance companies are and how bad insurance
defense lawyers are.
Because I cannot imagine a more despicable job than than
than trying to limit the amount of money somebody gets in a
wrongful death or an accident suit.
(29:54):
Not again. You get to defend against the fraudulent cases,
the fraudulent people that are, but these defense lawyers
that if somebody's got $100,000 worth of insurance coverage
and that's it. And and on paper, the the claim is worth
$250,000. Why are you spending $20,000 taking depositions
and defending the damn case instead of just paying the
(30:14):
money? Right. And just paying the money?
Speaker2: It's clear that it's two and a half times what they have (30:17):
undefined
coming. And if you just give them 100,000, at least it's
better than nothing.
Speaker1: It is. But then if you're if you're a defense lawyer, you're (30:23):
undefined
not you're not billing the hours that the firm needs to
justify what you're doing.
And it's wrong.
It's just it's immoral.
It's immoral. And I.
I just couldn't do it. I mean, I could I could have never
been a defense lawyer for a cigarette company knowing that
you're killing people.
I mean, there's just so many if lawyers would take a moral
(30:46):
stand, I'm talking about a criminal case because criminal
defense against the government is a whole different animal.
But in civil cases, if lawyers had a moral compass, we
would have half the cases that we would.
We would have. Right?
I mean, literally.
Speaker2: Exactly. Now, I was I was talking to when I was talking to (31:00):
undefined
Congressman Gosar and I was telling him about this life
insurance thing, I said, why can't we when you take a life
insurance policy out, have it recorded at the county
recorder? First thing he said was, well, it's a privacy
thing. I said, well, make it optional.
Make it an opt in so that there is a database that whenever
somebody dies, people can go to hopefully family, right?
(31:23):
Can go and say, hey, did my father have a life insurance
policy so that the insurance companies have to pay out on
these policies where they collected money for somebody's
entire life and they know the person's dead and they know
they have a policy. But there's no real way right now for
anybody to know about the insurance company.
And they're not telling. I'm not going to tell.
What do you think about that?
Well, registry.
Speaker1: Well, I agree with you. (31:43):
undefined
And I was actually going to tell producer Dan I think I got
a co-host. I mean, I need you as a co-host, I'm sure now,
because you I mean, bring it up.
Bring it up. That and I trust decision as a dentist.
That was impressive.
I mean, that was impressive.
Speaker2: You knew about that knowledge. Did you know about that? (32:00):
undefined
Speaker1: Yeah, because I mean, I taught sports law at Ohio State. (32:01):
undefined
So I know a little bit about the antitrust world and
insurance issues.
But the the reality is in these class action suits is
there's nobody that wins, doc.
There's nobody that wins.
But the lawyers.
Speaker2: I know, I know most people don't know if you should or if. (32:20):
undefined
Speaker1: You get lucky and you're and you're the happen to be the (32:22):
undefined
lead plaintiff, but it's the wrong system.
And again, it goes back to it all goes back to the quality
of the judiciary, which is is horrendous in states where
judges are elected.
Speaker2: Well, don't forget that it's the attorneys that work for. (32:38):
undefined
A dental. They're also guilty, right.
Because they should be saying to their bosses, this isn't
right. Well, no, I mean, not put it all in the judge.
Speaker1: Well, they're taking they're taking advantage of they're (32:48):
undefined
taking advantage of the system.
Now, that's not something I would do because I'd never
represent insurance company.
But when when the judges make it that easy for them, it's
hard for them not to just have their hands out and waste
all these time on these 95 depositions.
Well, actually, it's 95 depositions.
Knock each party.
Which means that which means all the lawyers, the 12
(33:11):
lawyers and associates that are billing for their for their
learning time as well.
Speaker2: In. (33:17):
undefined
Speaker1: Depositions. Yeah. So so you've got all these depositions (33:17):
undefined
with all these lawyers in a room saying the same the same
thing. Why?
Why? Most of them are doodling because they're not really
getting any information that they don't already know.
They just it just doesn't happen.
I mean, it's just a it's just it's a travesty.
I mean, it's a tragedy, a travesty that that lawyers can
(33:40):
get away from this or get away with this and judge is
allowing them to do it.
Speaker2: The other travesty is let's go back to dental health for a (33:44):
undefined
minute. It's a travesty that people still think their
insurance should cover the bill because they'll come in and
they'll say, I just want what my insurance covers.
Oh, and when I use up my yearly max, I guess I'll wait till
next year.
Speaker1: So does that mean you only take out two of the bad teeth (33:58):
undefined
instead of the third one?
Speaker2: It does. Or we only fill. (34:03):
undefined
Or you've got a cavity that is just a filling today.
But if you wait a year, it's going to be a root canal,
which will mean a crown. Also, do you take a, I don't know,
$150 filling a tooth that needs that?
And you wait a year because their insurance ran out so
quickly because it's 1960 money.
And now when they come back and say, okay, I'm ready to get
that tooth, now it's like a 3000 tag price tag because now
(34:24):
it's a root canal and it's a crown and it's also a filling
and sometimes it's an extraction which maybe needs an
implant or a bridge.
And so I try to tell people, you won't live long enough to
ever get your mouth healthy.
Now, did you know that dental disease is the most unmet
health need in the nation?
Speaker1: Well, I do well related to that. (34:40):
undefined
I do know that that dentist and and I doctors have been
with the same amount of training as an internist, have been
the stepchild when it comes to the insurance coverage.
Right. Right. I mean, you guys you guys are not getting
treated like, you.
Speaker2: Know, and here's here's what for some reason, the insurance (34:54):
undefined
industry takes the human body and treats it like it's a
headless horseman. So everything from your neck down,
shoulders down is covered, including podiatry care, so you
can get a Korn taken off.
Speaker1: I forgot about that. (35:08):
undefined
Speaker2: It's true. Corn taking off for the same, you know, coverage. (35:09):
undefined
That's your medical insurance. But boy, if it's above the
neck, oh, my goodness. It has to be an extra policy.
You have to have dental coverage.
You have to have mental health coverage.
You have to have vision coverage.
Why are they allowed to do that?
It's all one human body.
How can they just say, well, we're only going to pay part
on this and maybe not cover that at all and people don't
(35:29):
understand. So they think they come in.
Oh, here's the thing. You get in a car accident, right?
You take they take you to the hospital.
You rack up an $85,000 bill to get patched up.
Right. It's covered except for a few hundred dollars.
That's awesome. By the way, the reason they can do that is
because not everybody is getting in those car accidents.
You got people like me that aren't sick, aren't in
accidents, but on the way home, you can get in another car
accident, go back in for another 35 or 40,000, and that too
(35:52):
is paid dentistry.
You get $1,000, right?
Maybe 1500.
Doesn't matter what you need.
Does it matter how much pain you're in, how many teeth are
rotten that you can't eat, can't sleep?
Doesn't matter. It's not covered.
Speaker1: That I do not know. That's that's incredible. (36:04):
undefined
That's that's incredible.
But but one of the things I want I want the listeners in
this podcast to know about not only what you're doing to
try to help the industry and, and help your patients get
better is I know what you do because I've seen your rig.
I want you to talk about this monster rig that you have
(36:26):
that you paid for out of your pocket and how you serve the
homeless community, because I think that's just incredible.
Speaker2: So I have this 52 foot motor home. (36:34):
undefined
And when I say that people think I'm misspeaking,
misspeaking because the big rigs that you see for like a
traveling superstar of some sort, maybe, I don't know, just
pick your famous somebody famous that's going to go well.
Oh, you did the music stuff, right?
So those buses are 40, 45, I'm sorry, 45 feet long.
(36:56):
Right. So mine's seven feet longer than the ones that you
I'm talking about. Only because it's a it's a truck.
It started off as a truck. It's got seven foot engine in
front. So what we did is I bought portable and I tried to
get funding from everybody and anybody that I could.
And nobody, even the dental supply places that the people
that I buy all my stuff from thousands and thousands of
dollars. You know, what they told me when I applied for
(37:17):
help was they told the sales rep, well, you know, he's a
dentist, he can afford to make payments.
Even though I clear I was going to be doing it for free.
I've never charged the cent for anything I do in the motor
home, so I bought two portable dental chairs, two portable
dental lights, two portable dental units, the kind that
create the suction and the and the air and water spray and
all that. And so we worked right now with and I did.
(37:40):
Gesture from the heart at my office for seven years, where
we opened up the entire ten stories and had all kinds of
volunteers, and we just took care of hundreds of people.
And over time, over seven years, I also brought team smile
to town twice, working with the Blue Jackets.
And so I'm probably responsible for four or 5000 people
(38:01):
getting free dental care, you know, in that decade.
But I'm still doing it. So I work with a thing called Make
a Day Foundation, and they work with the homeless.
They actually go into the homeless encampments and they
drop off flyers. They know where they are and they bring
them in and they do a haircut and they feed them and they
have a lawyer that comes and donates their time and gives,
(38:23):
um, advice to them on.
Speaker1: The real lawyer. (38:24):
undefined
Speaker2: Yeah, the real lawyer, yeah. (38:25):
undefined
And then, um, we do free dental care and they would have us
come every month if we could.
But it cost me about between paying my, my employees diesel
fuel, um, payment on the, on the rig and supplies.
It costs me about $5,000 to do an event.
(38:46):
And so I have to limit how many of those I can do because
again, I'm not gotten any help.
And the ironic thing is, is Delta Dental, I'm going to tie
this back in because one of the ways they got the state
reps and senators to kind of be their friend was they told
them, look, we've donated $300,000 to Ohio State.
So they could we bought their dental bus for them.
(39:07):
Right. Well, in that one year alone, Delta Dental had
withheld $100,000 from me.
They had these things almost like the the PBM clawbacks for
pharmacy. They would take part of our money back even
though we earned it and they would keep it.
And supposedly at the end of the year, if their numbers
looked good, they would give it to us, but they never did.
And so they donated this bus to OSU with money, my money
(39:30):
and two other dentists. And you know how many dentists
probably send claims to Delta Dental.
So they like their think of them as all this wonderful this
wonderful business is helping poor people and so on.
And money came from me and two other dentists, but I had to
buy my rig on my own with no help.
Right. I'm still making payments on it, by the way, but it's
really rewarding. My staff loves it.
They don't love that I make them come back to the office
(39:52):
and see patients again.
They would like us just to go do it and go home, but I
still have to pay the bills, right?
So we go in and like I'll go in to see patients at seven on
a day. We're going to do this.
I'll see patients till ten.
Actually, on that same day I will have gotten up at 430,
drove, driven the rig.
I'm the only one that can drive it because I have a so I've
driven the rig and set it up on site which was either one
(40:14):
was at Lineage Brewing, one was at Standard Hall.
There's a parking lot right next to it or wherever they're
setting up. And then I go back to the office in time for 7
a.m. patient. I see patients till ten, then I leave and I
go do this event and then I'm back at the office for 330, a
3:00 patient and I work till six.
So I've gotten 6 hours of patient time in and in the middle
(40:35):
of that day. What would that be for 5 hours in the middle,
I'm doing free stuff and that's the only way I can kind of
pay the bills. Well, you know.
Speaker1: Well, it's it's awesome. (40:43):
undefined
I mean, it's really awesome what you're doing.
I mean, I frankly, I mean, half the reason I wanted you
here was to talk about what you're doing for these people.
I mean, which is incredible. We'll put we'll put that that
information in the show notes.
But I wanted to give you a chance to vent, and I wanted to
give me a chance to talk about bad class action lawyers and
and bad judges.
(41:04):
But I really appreciate you coming, doc.
I think this this is this is educational for people.
We revisit this again.
But I wanted you because you lived it your real life.
This is this is a passion.
You brought it to my attention.
I wouldn't have known about this particular case and the
scam that they're doing, but I really appreciate you being
(41:24):
here today.
Speaker2: You're very welcome. And just a parting note would be for (41:25):
undefined
people listening. Don't let your dental insurance company
decide what's good for you.
If your dentist says you need something, don't wait a year.
Don't wait two years. Just try to figure out how to get it.
When people go to the auto repair, they know they're going
to have to pay the bill. When you go to Kroger's, you know
you're not walking out with groceries without paying the
bill. People don't have insurance, walk in my dental office
(41:45):
knowing they're going to have to pay the bill.
And those people are actually better off and tend to be
healthier because they walk in knowing there's going to be
an expense here. And by the way, people hate paying for
things that they need and they don't mind paying for things
that they want. Here's an example.
You take a car, right?
Your car needs transmission work, right?
Everybody hates that. And everybody, they're pissed off.
(42:05):
How am I going to get around this?
You know, you have companies come in and say they're going
to help pay the bill for you.
And it's like but that same person might go out and spend
1500 bucks on chrome wheels, spinners or whatever.
Right. And they don't complain a bit because it's something
they want. We complain about things that we need when it
comes to paying the bill, but we don't care about things
that we want because it's cool.
(42:25):
A new paint job or new, you know, fancy whatever.
So basically what I'm saying is, is everybody should want a
healthy mouth. Everybody should want to have their
restorations, fix their cavities, fix their abscess is
done. Don't walk. Around with pus dripping out of your gum,
which people do.
Speaker1: But you have to fight. (42:42):
undefined
You have to fight that mentality that that that everybody
has that says, I've got insurance and it pays for
everything. I know. I mean, that's.
Speaker2: The minute they tell me that you're. (42:51):
undefined
Speaker1: Fighting that every day, right? (42:52):
undefined
Speaker2: Every day. And on a new patient, you have to be kind of (42:53):
undefined
subtle with it because you don't want them to think that
it's just me. I'll just say, you know, you know, just so
you know, insurance never pays the whole bill and anything.
They don't pay as much as you think.
In fact, they're probably going to pay very little.
But we'll let the girls up front who understand the
insurance and you guys can talk.
Speaker1: And explain it. (43:11):
undefined
Speaker2: Yeah. So we'll know how much your part's gonna be. (43:11):
undefined
Speaker1: That's awesome. That's awesome. (43:14):
undefined
That's good advice in this podcast with.
Thanks, doc.
Speaker2: You're very welcome. Thanks for having me on. (43:18):
undefined
Speaker1: Now to Brett's rant, I actually I'm still pissed off about (43:21):
undefined
that. That damn judge had fired the pregnant lady, but to
the issue at hand.
And Dr. FICO was really good in explaining his frustration
about this process.
But we've got to have a better way to deal with these class
action suits. I mean, how many how many of you have gotten
(43:41):
a mailer? And it used to be the phone companies or the
Internet company or, you know, you get a check for a dollar
27 that shows up in the mail because you were part of the
million person class when the lawyers were making millions
and millions of dollars.
And in the case that we talked about with with the Franklin
(44:02):
County and the the perverts that were taking the pictures,
you know, if you're in that class, opt out, you're going to
get more than $2,000.
You can't tell me that that the public humiliation, the
humiliation of having to undress and have some pervert take
a picture of your breast, your private body parts, it's
(44:23):
certainly worth more than than $2,000.
But we've got to get back to getting it all comes back to
the competency of the judges and the judges to to be able
to control these class action lawsuits who are in the
class, how much the lawyers are making, what the defense
is. And until we have that competency and even the case, we
(44:44):
decided at the federal level that that judge is simply not
competent to understand that you don't need 95 depositions
on each side to determine the outcome of this case.
So we've got to figure out a better a better system, guys.
But but class actions, they suck.
They suck. That's my rant of the day.
(45:04):
And as always, thanks so much for listening to Lawyers are
assholes.
Sat down.
No. By myself.
Bret: Just like you do. (00:13):
undefined
Welcome to Lawyers Are Assholes.
I'm your host, Bret Adams, a lawyer, I should say, a
recovering lawyer who found a platform to address a broken
legal system. This is where we call out incompetent and
unscrupulous lawyers, prosecutors and judges.
Anyone that touches the legal system, we're coming after
you if you're an asshole.
(00:34):
Today's guest is Brian Kvitko.
Dr. Kvitko has been a long time friend of mine.
He is the Columbus, Ohio dentist to the stars.
But I know Doc Kvitko through his ongoing battle with Delta
Dental. And we're going to talk about class action lawsuits
today. And I think you're going to enjoy his take on how we
(00:56):
deal with these type of lawyers.
Now to our asshole of the week.
Now, this this judge out of the middle district of Georgia
is named C Ashley Royall.
Now, I don't know what it is with these guys with three
names. I don't know if it's a if he's anatomically
challenged, has an issue with self-confidence.
But this is the second podcast in a row.
(01:18):
I'm dealing with a judge, a prosecutor with with three
names. But let me tell you what this asshole did.
He fired a law clerk by the name of Caitlin Clarke ten days
before her baby was born.
Now, let me tell you a little bit about Caitlin Clarke.
She graduated 13th out of a class of 123 at Mercer
(01:42):
University. She was the law school law review editor, moot
court competition coach.
And I bring that up to talk about her intellect, which this
judge insults her with.
But anyway, she had received a raise and an offer to extend
a two year clerkship with this judge in January 2020.
And at that time, she disclosed to the judge that she was
(02:06):
pregnant. And so follow me along here.
So when once she realized or the judge realized she was
pregnant, he took a different attitude.
Now this comes out of actual transcripts because she filed
a complaint, which we'll talk about.
But but this judge meets Caitlin Clarke.
(02:28):
She's five months pregnant, meets, meets, ask her to come
to his house. This is the actual transfer of Caitlin.
I don't know why you're not getting the work done, but I
have three ideas.
The first one is you aren't smart enough to do the work.
Okay, now what a condescending asshole.
What? What condescending, arrogant asshole would say that?
Well, of course this judge did.
(02:48):
The second one is Your heart is not in the job.
The third one is because you don't have the intensity to do
the job. I don't know which one of it is, but but this is
not working out.
Now, there was a note taker there who also said that the
judge said this to Caitlin.
Now, while this may be a good mommy job, work still has to
get done. Now, not only is he a condescending asshole, he
(03:11):
is a sexist asshole.
Now, here's what most people I'm going to tell you
something here, that the average person on the street would
just you can't comprehend this.
The federal judiciary, there's 30,000 employees.
And the federal laws that prohibit workplace discrimination
and retaliation do not apply to these 30,000 workers.
(03:35):
Now, I mean, you would think of any place that you would
enforce this, wouldn't it be as part of that part of the
judiciary? I mean, it's just it's incredible.
So so she files a complaint.
And I got to tell you about my experience in filing a
complaint. And under the federal system, incredulously, she
(03:56):
files a formal administrative complaint.
And guess who the complaint goes to?
It goes to the presiding judge in the neighboring district,
this asshole, Judge Jay Randall Hall.
He actually hears the complaint.
He doesn't hear it. There's no testimony.
But he reviews the facts and basically says, you're fired
for poor work performance.
(04:18):
Judge has no liability.
Now you talk about the fox guarding the hen house.
I mean, this is just insane.
This is insane that a a federal review a review of a
judicial complaint goes to the neighboring judge.
Now, what neighboring judge is going to is going to pound
on a judge that he probably knows personally.
(04:38):
Now, fortunately, she was able to to to find an employment
discrimination lawyer, and they've appealed it and he says
it the best, her lawyer says, and allowing the judiciary to
operate as its own investigator and arbiter.
There's no meaningful path for a judicial employee to make
a confidential complaint, obtain an independent
investigation of the complaint, and if so, dissatisfied
(05:01):
with the outcome of that investigation, pursue the claim
through the means available virtually to every employee.
So in sum, you've got a law clerk that gets exemplary
marks. I forgot to mention she got a pay raise.
They extended her employment and she becomes pregnant.
You fire her ten days before she delivers the baby.
(05:23):
Now, my opinion, it's totally based on she had maternity
leave. This this judge went and hired somebody else.
I mean, it's outrageous.
It's just absolutely outrageous.
So you, Mr.
Royale, with three names, are the asshole of the week.
Welcome welcome Dr.
Kvitko to Lawyers Are Assholes.
Now people are going to say why?
(05:45):
Why is Dr.
Kvitko the dentist to the stars here on a legal show
badmouthing lawyers?
And but first, I want to talk about a little bit of our
history, because you've actually done some some really good
work on some some clients of mine, Ted Williams, The Golden
Voice. And then you did Dominic Ryan guard from from I want
(06:11):
to say America's top.
Dr. Kvitko: Model, America's Next Top. (06:12):
undefined
Bret: Model. It is America's Next Top model. (06:13):
undefined
So you're more into it than than than I am.
So but anyway, we you became familiar with and we've been
friends for a long time and you became familiar with my
podcast and said, hey, I want to talk about Delta Dental.
And so I went and I did some research and and believe it or
(06:33):
not, we don't just go in there and wing it.
We actually do some research for these for these episodes.
And what I found out was just unbelievable.
Just unbelievable.
It's just unbelievable. We're going to talk about class
actions, but give us a little overview of of what's your
issue with Delta Dental?
Dr. Kvitko: So in 2006, at the end of 2006, they sent a letter to all (06:50):
undefined
dentists who were on their list and said, if you're still
on our list in 2007, we're going to tell you what you can
charge for things that we don't even cover.
So they don't pay for whitening, but they were going to
tell us how much we could charge for it.
They don't pay for porcelain veneers, but they were going
to tell us how much we could charge for it.
(07:11):
And I looked it up and I discovered that it had already
been made illegal in a couple of states.
New Hampshire was one of them.
And I thought, you know what, I'm not going to do this
because it doesn't feel right.
And so I went off their list and I'm thinking that within,
oh, a year or two, other states will have made it illegal
as well, including Ohio.
(07:31):
And I can go back on the list.
Well, it's let me think, 2006, it's now 16 years later, and
it's still not illegal in Ohio.
After about seven years of being off the list, I went back
on the list because I felt like I had no choice.
Patients were leaving. Why aren't you on my list?
Why can't I? You know, why aren't you accepting Delta
Dental? I said, Well, I do, but I wasn't on the list, which
(07:54):
means they weren't getting a discounted fees.
So I met with 22 different state representatives and
senators in Ohio.
I spent all kinds of time trying to get them to make it
illegal. There have been bills introduced every two years
to make it illegal, and every two years it just sits there.
It doesn't even get a hearing most.
Bret: Of the time. It's safe to say that the primary only reason (08:15):
undefined
for that is the dental lobby.
The insurance lobby.
Speaker2: Oh, it's very obvious. (08:22):
undefined
So, for example, I had a meeting with then-Senator Jim
Hewes, who happens to be an attorney.
So that might tie into this show because I wanted to talk
to him about it, and we set an appointment.
Now, remember, I'm a dentist.
And so to do these appointments, they're always starting
the day I had to, like block off patients.
It's costing me money. But I felt like I was doing a
(08:42):
service to the patients and the dental community.
So but when I show up, the Delta dental lobbyist is sitting
there in his office already.
He didn't tell me she was invited.
I didn't know she'd be invited.
And that became the most obvious sign that this was rigged
and that the people who write the checks to help them get
(09:04):
elected or whatever they use the money for, whether it's
tickets to events or whatever.
That's why it's still illegal in Ohio now, by the way.
Delta Dental, the one that is over Ohio, is a is three
states. We have like a large Delta dental company or group,
whatever they consider themselves.
And so they're Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.
And when I was doing this, I had a map that I would give to
(09:25):
each state senator and representative who met with me.
They're all willing to meet with you, but then they don't
do anything about it. And there were 41 states that had
made it illegal, probably up to about 44 by now.
And I'm thinking, what company?
Okay, let's put it in my perspective.
If I found out there was something that I was doing that
was made illegal in 44 states, I'd probably just stop.
(09:47):
I would just stop. I'd like if nothing else, it's morally
wrong, right, to keep doing this if it's been made illegal
in almost every state in the country, not Delta Dental.
They just keep going. They just keep buying off the
senators and congressmen and, you know, state reps.
Speaker1: Right. Well, here's here's what I found in my research. (10:01):
undefined
And I think that I figured out why they really don't care
about the class action or how long the class action takes.
Like, for example, a few years ago, California did the same
thing that Illinois is doing.
We're going to delve into the Illinois case here in a
(10:21):
second. But they settled that.
Those antitrust issues and what you're talking about in
terms of the payment for $65.
That case goes on for an extended period of time, four or
five years. Well, they're going to pay $65 million while
they're collecting three or four or $500 million worth of
(10:42):
payments they wouldn't have ordinarily collected.
Right. So they really don't care.
And and it was interesting in the Illinois case, because
it's not even scheduled.
I got the scheduling order for this federal federal case in
Illinois where the case is.
The discovery is not done until mid 2023.
(11:04):
And those Delta lawyers, they don't care.
They don't they don't care.
I mean, their.
Speaker2: Salary, they're getting paid regardless. (11:08):
undefined
Speaker1: And the how long it takes because they're they're collecting (11:11):
undefined
these payments where where once they reach a a settlement
and they pay out to the class members, you know, minuscule
amount of money, which is probably what you're looking at.
I mean, despite all of this effort, this lobbying effort
and the time that you put into it, I mean, at the end of
the day, it's certainly not going to be worth your time
(11:33):
because you're the one that's put the time into it to try
to make something happen. But what happened?
What happened? Did you confront that lobbyist in in Jim
Hewes office or say, hey, what's going on here?
Speaker2: Oh, yeah, no. I told her what was on my mind and everything (11:44):
undefined
and she already knew and she didn't care.
That's what you know, she's just there to protect their
interests. Let me just tell you, you mentioned antitrust,
so I don't think people understand there are only two
businesses in this country that have an exemption against
antitrust laws.
It's the insurance industry and the and the sports
industry, right?
(12:05):
Yeah. You know that because your sports.
Yeah. Okay.
Speaker1: Yeah. (12:06):
undefined
Speaker2: So how did that happen? (12:07):
undefined
In 1945, Congress passed the McCarran Ferguson Act.
Now, if you've ever gone to Las Vegas, you'll know that.
You'll know that you land at McCarran Field.
So I think McCarran Field was named after whatever senator
or congressman proposed this back in 1945.
And the insurance companies went to Congress and said,
look, we need to have the ability to talk to each other
(12:29):
because this is a new product.
We don't know how to price it.
We don't know how much money we're gonna have to have
sitting around. And so we need an exemption.
And it all made sense back then because there weren't
computers yet, right?
There wasn't. It was. Hard to actually corroborate or
collaborate on your data.
So they passed the McCarran Ferguson Act.
And so since 1945, which would be, what, 55, 77 years, the
(12:54):
insurance companies have had this.
See, if I get together with the dentists across the street
and I say, Hey, let's not charge any more than 1200 dollars
per crown, well, that's an antitrust violation.
And I get I get in trouble.
I would get a prison sentence or fine or both.
But insurance companies not only can, but they they do
share they share all of this information.
And now with computers, they know more about me than I know
(13:16):
about me. They do.
And so one of the things that I've been trying to do is to
get the McCarran Ferguson Act repealed.
Now, I happen to in my other radio show that I've done, I
was able to interview Dr.
I'm sorry, Congressman Paul Gosar from Arizona, and I think
it might be the 16th District.
And he's proposed legislation to withdraw that it's not
(13:40):
gone anywhere. I think he keeps proposing it.
And so think about it.
Here's an example. I had a I decided I was going to switch
insurance companies because I wasn't happy with, um, with
my, the State Farm wasn't happy with them.
So I got with my other agent because I had two different, I
had like auto here and home there.
(14:01):
I wasn't one of the ones that did everything and one with
one company. And so I had this little literally little tiny
little fender bender. And I thought, you know what?
It's not enough to worry about.
It's a little it's a scratch or whatever.
I'll, I'll take care of it.
And so, um, I wasn't going to do anything.
And then I found out that State Farm was gonna, in my
(14:21):
opinion, screw me over on a different thing on my motor
home. And I thought, you know what?
To heck with that. Why would I look the other way?
Or Why would I pay this out of pocket?
I still have coverage for another two weeks, so I turned it
in, but I'd already gotten a quote from the new company, so
I knew I was going to be leaving in two weeks.
I turned in the claim. So two weeks goes by.
I get a call from my new agent.
(14:43):
He goes, What about that claim for your car?
I go, What are you talking about? He goes, You know the
little fender bender you just had with your Mercedes?
I said, Well, how'd you know about that?
Well, they have a clearinghouse.
All the information goes to a big computer room.
I don't know if people know this.
And so I now I had to explain that and it almost affected
my new the rates on my new policy.
(15:04):
Right. So anyway, yeah, they have way too much latitude,
way too much power.
And in my opinion, they don't care about your health.
They don't, in my opinion.
But all they care about is how much money are they gonna
make and how can they figure out ways to make more?
Which would have been this, Hey, let's say we're not going
to pay for things that we don't even cover or that we're.
Speaker1: So how does it affect you individually? (15:23):
undefined
And you're in your office and your if you didn't have I
mean, you have to have them, right?
I mean.
Speaker2: We're locked into it because we have no choice. (15:30):
undefined
They're really good at getting new clients.
And so if you if you live in a place like I do, Columbus,
where Ohio State University is covered by Delta, a lot of
other companies, and if you're not on their list, you're
really going to be kind of left out and they know that.
But how did they get so big?
Who knows? I don't know how they got so big other than, you
(15:51):
know, giving the impression that you have more.
Here's the thing. Did you know that, first of all, Delta
Dental was started by dentists?
Six of them, if I remember this right, in about 1960, the
reason they started it was because up to that point, the
insurance industry said, you can't we can't insure dental
disease because 100% of the people have it.
And they're right. If you take into account periodontal
(16:12):
disease, which is gingivitis, which is just inflamed gums,
everybody has it, so to say we can't do this and make
money. So the dentists decided they were going to prove to
the insurance industry that they could actually make money.
So it was the dentists that came up with it wasn't called
Delta Dental back then, but they said, you know what, let's
figure out a way that we can prove to the insurance
companies, how about we have them pay?
We we'll pay 100% for cleanings and and exams and x rays,
(16:35):
but maybe we don't pay 100% for fillings.
Let's pay 80%.
Let's pay only half of the cost of an expensive item like a
crown or a denture.
And then you know what?
Really prove to the insurance companies that they can make
money. We'll put a cap on how much they'll have to spend
per patient per year.
And it was $1,000.
That's how it came out.
Now, after a few years of this.
(16:56):
And by the way, in order to pay a claim, you have to
receive a request from a dentist.
Well, that dentist is now finding himself or herself,
sending in their personal data to other dentists.
Right. This was now owned by other dentists and they didn't
like that. So there were some dentists who brought a
lawsuit and said, this isn't right.
(17:16):
This is I shouldn't have to send private information to
these other dentists. They're competitors of mine.
And the courts agreed and said that they had to divest
themselves of this side business, and that's when it became
Delta Dental. So back in 1960 1000, I'm telling you about
how many people out there listening know that their dental
insurance still only pays $1,000 a year or maybe 1500 well
(17:40):
in 1960. Around average rent was $99.
Gas was $0.25 a gallon.
On average, car price was $2,200.
The average house price was $12,000.
And, you know, it could go on and on.
And and so what's happening now is how how many years
tonight, 62 years later, I'm doing the math, right?
(18:01):
Yeah. No, yeah.
62 years later, they're still giving us 1960 money to pay
for dental care. So the reality is, if people would really
kind of wake up and think about this Delta Dental and the
other insurance companies, they don't pay enough of the
bill where they should have any say at all, in my opinion,
of course, any say because here's you know if you just
(18:22):
extrapolate forward using cost of living increases in just
2010 which was the last time I did the math, the yearly max
should have been $18,464.
Well, that's 12 years ago.
It should probably be 27,000 a year, a yearly max, just to
equate back to 1960.
Speaker1: Wow. Wow. (18:40):
undefined
So your legislative efforts went nowhere?
No and no. And so basically at this point, you're waiting
you're waiting for potentially the same group of lawyers
that did the California case, the the Illinois case, to
come here and do this three states, because they're they're
basically six states left that that are not subject to the
(19:05):
antitrust regulation.
Right. Is that so you're just so you're waiting for a law
firm to come along and you'll waste further time.
They'll make all the money is right.
They usually do.
And for example, you know, tell our listeners about this
case in Illinois.
There's a schedule for those laypersons getting orders
(19:27):
where the court lays out, we're going to we're going to
have this discovery period number of people.
You're going to talk to a number of depositions with this
scheduled order that this 75 year old judge issued, 75 year
old judge in Illinois extends this out to to 2023.
But the first thing that caught my attention in here was
(19:49):
the number of depositions and again, research, this judge,
administrative judge, not not a real lawyer, as most of
these federal appointments, they're just not real lawyers.
They've never practiced freaking law.
They're probably donors and and so well you are because
most federal most federal judges, former prosecutors,
(20:11):
they're their political appointees, their political
appointments. And, you know, whether if you've got a a
Democratic president, a Republican president, you're going
to get you're going to get Democratic nominees or
Republican nominees.
And I've said this before, I don't care if my judge is a
Democrat, I'd like him to be competent and I'd like a
(20:32):
federal prosecutor that's dealing with significant civil
cases. Not to have been their only experience in the
practice of law has been federal prosecutions.
Right. And there's so few of those.
I mean, they act like, you know, they work their ass off
and, you know, they prosecute, I mean, a limited number of
people a year and only cases that they know they can
(20:54):
absolutely win.
It's such a farce. It's just such a farce.
Speaker2: Can I interject a little? (20:58):
undefined
Speaker1: Absolutely. (20:59):
undefined
Speaker2: Without naming any names, we were good friends with a couple (21:01):
undefined
where the husband was a lawyer and then became a judge, and
he was very excited about being a judge.
And he would go in and he was working through his docket
and he got in trouble with the other judges.
They called him into their office and they said, You need
to slow down. You're making us look bad.
Stop. Just take Fridays off, go golfing, you know.
Speaker1: Yeah. (21:23):
undefined
Speaker2: And the point is, is there's so much more work that could (21:24):
undefined
get done in these one year time frames.
Could be six months if they would actually earn their
income.
Speaker1: Oh, it's ridiculous. When I was practicing. (21:31):
undefined
Speaker2: So you already know. (21:34):
undefined
Speaker1: Oh, no, I experienced it firsthand. (21:35):
undefined
I mean, I when I was if you try to find a judge in Franklin
County, Ohio, musical police, please judge on a on a summer
afternoon, Thursday or Friday afternoon to I mean, forget
it.
Speaker2: You have to go to the golf course. (21:50):
undefined
Speaker1: Forget it. It's it's a joke. (21:51):
undefined
It is an absolute joke because because it goes back to
there's no accountability.
And it's just what you just said.
I mean, who's going to I mean, it's the administrative
judge who's actually entitled only because, you know, he's
got elected the same way these other unqualified judges got
(22:12):
elected. Who's going to tell them they need to work harder?
Who's going to tell them that that that if somebody, a
client is paying a lawyer by the hour to be there for a
9:00 hearing, the judge shows up at 930.
I mean, where's the accountability?
Speaker2: There is none in that case that cost the client another 150 (22:26):
undefined
bucks.
Speaker1: It does. And that's that's why we're doing this podcast, (22:29):
undefined
because we're going to call these people out.
Speaker2: And by the way, Jim Hughes is a judge now. (22:33):
undefined
Speaker1: Yes, I'm going to. (22:36):
undefined
Yeah. I mean, I like Jim.
Speaker2: Oh, I know we're friends. (22:44):
undefined
Speaker1: We were friends at the time, but but yeah, I mean, and we've (22:45):
undefined
had, you know, whether he's qualified or not, whether you
practice law, I mean, you should have actually tried a case
before you become judge.
And and so many of these canned and even our probate
probate judge, you actually, like, never had a probate
case, never had a probate case in his entire career.
(23:06):
And he suddenly the probate judge.
So so anyway, back to back to badmouthing these class
action lawyers and and this judge.
So so this judge this this Elaine Buck Low who who doesn't
have the real life experience that we all have.
Probably not.
Probably. She's looked at at the other class action
(23:29):
lawsuits, how they've handled them in federal court.
And she thinks this is normal.
Right. So so she doesn't care what the schedule is.
But if she would, she would have the the business acumen or
the courage to sit down with these class action lawyers and
the defense lawyers sit in a room and say, guys, we really
need 95 depositions on each side to prove or disprove
(23:53):
whether there's the antitrust issues here.
Do we really need 95 depositions?
Well, the lawyers are going to say yes.
Speaker2: Because we can bill for it, because we can 5. (23:59):
undefined
Speaker1: Hours bill for those. (24:01):
undefined
We can bill. And the system allows that to happen because
you don't have you don't have strong judges that will say
this is bullshit.
Speaker2: Yeah. And by the way, I said that wrong. (24:12):
undefined
The depositions can go on as long as the attorneys want
them to. There's no there's no limit.
It could be all day. It could be five days.
It could be ten days. So it could be thousands of dollars
per deposition. Right.
Speaker1: Right. Especially if you don't have if you don't have a (24:24):
undefined
judge, it's paying attention to to things.
Now, some judges that, you know, if you call the court and
say, hey, this this is you know, we've got the information,
this is just harassment.
And, you know, the judge or a competent judge will
intervene, but not at this federal level.
Not not with with 95 depositions.
(24:45):
You know, you've got you've got a history in these other
jurisdictions. I mean, the reality is you could use that
same evidence in California as you could.
I don't think dentistry doc, you can correct me if I'm
wrong, practice a whole lot differently in Illinois than it
is.
Speaker2: California, though. It's exactly the same, right? (24:59):
undefined
It's exactly the same.
Speaker1: So so why why the necessity for because this judge is just (25:02):
undefined
either either not aware of it.
It doesn't want to challenge the system.
I mean, I'm not age discrimination here, but 75 years old,
maybe she just doesn't care at this point.
Maybe she doesn't care.
And maybe she's friends with these lawyers on both sides
(25:23):
that are just going to continue to rack up the fees.
But I'm afraid you're going to be in the same be in the
same situation.
Speaker2: Oh, I've actually resolved myself. (25:30):
undefined
That is never gonna happen in my lifetime.
Well, you're not any.
Speaker1: Better. You're not that old. They'll get this case done and. (25:37):
undefined
Speaker2: Well, that's Illinois. We're not talking about Ohio, (25:39):
undefined
Indiana, Michigan.
Speaker1: Right, right, right. And then again, when you talk about a (25:42):
undefined
class action that's a little bit different, it's it's
corporately. But I want to I want to bring everybody's
attention to a class action case that's going on right now
in in Franklin County, Ohio.
Columbus, Ohio, where there's a group of lawyers that's
representing a class. A class was certified in a period of
(26:02):
time in the in 2011, 13, 14, where women that would go in
and be booked into the jail would have their tattoos
photographed.
Speaker2: Photographed. Right. I remember reading about that. (26:14):
undefined
So they were naked.
Speaker1: Basically naked. I mean, they're naked. (26:17):
undefined
Okay. Now, how so?
The class, the proposed settlement is two and a half
million dollars. The lawyers are getting $830,000.
Okay. The principal original plaintiffs getting $50,000.
Speaker2: Which is chump change. (26:36):
undefined
Speaker1: Which is chump change. But the individual class person is (26:37):
undefined
getting $2,000.
Speaker2: Right. (26:41):
undefined
Speaker1: Now. How the hell is that fair? (26:42):
undefined
Speaker2: It's not. (26:45):
undefined
Speaker1: It's not. I mean, and it isn't. (26:46):
undefined
It isn't. And we're going to talk about at the end when I
do my rant, because there is a solution for it is you take
the lawyers out of the equation and not I don't want
government to solve all of our problems, but there's an
easier way to do it then than have these lawyers that do
nothing but hustle these class action lawsuits.
(27:07):
Now, you know, if anybody that's listening, it's part of
this opt out of this class because you're going to get more
than from some of the cases I've heard, you know, you're
going to get more than 2000.
So here's the other. The problem with that particular case
is somebody in that jail system, whoever's running that
jail, made this pervert made a decision to do that.
(27:27):
Right. Okay. Instead of looking and of course, you want to
compensate the people who've been victimized by it.
But where is the accountability for that asshole that made
this rule? I mean, can you imagine if it was your daughter?
Your wife got got arrested and you've got some perverts in
the jail taking pictures of their boobs because it's got a
(27:48):
tattoo on it.
I mean, it's two and one half million, $2,000 a person.
That's insulting.
It's embarrassing.
And it's embarrassing that the county, which is going to
sign off on this, would would think that that's we think
that that's appropriate.
Speaker2: So I guess I assumed that maybe incorrectly that the person (28:04):
undefined
who made that decision because the county's going to have
to pay out millions of dollars, would be losing their job.
Am I wrong?
Speaker1: Well, I don't know about the person making the decision on (28:12):
undefined
the payout, but the person that actually.
Speaker2: No, the person that made the decision to say, let's take (28:16):
undefined
these pictures.
Speaker1: Naked, we should be fired. (28:19):
undefined
Speaker2: Yeah, but have they been? (28:20):
undefined
Speaker1: Not. Not. Not to my knowledge. (28:22):
undefined
Yeah. Not to my. Not to my knowledge.
But but there's but again, there's one person.
But, you know, they're all probably laughing about this.
I mean, there had to be more than one person in there.
But again, it goes back to one of the reasons that I did
this podcast was to try to to really attribute
accountability to stupid people or people that are making
(28:44):
these decisions.
Speaker2: So I know we're talking about dental insurance, but I just (28:45):
undefined
want to throw out throw this out as well.
So life insurance, it's basically the insurance industry
that I think we're talking about.
So in life insurance, there are cases where the insurance
company knows that this person died.
They have a copy of their of their death certificate in the
file. But since none of the family members knew they had a
life insurance policy, they don't pay out.
(29:08):
Now, if you know that your client has died and it's you
have their death certificate, you also know where they had
the funeral, which means you could you could contact the
funeral home, get the name and phone number of next of kin
and say, by the way, your dad had a life insurance policy.
We want you to come down and we'll fill out the paperwork.
(29:28):
But they don't even if they know the person died and they
know how to reach the family, they don't.
Speaker1: We would need I could do 100, 100 episodes of this podcast (29:33):
undefined
on how bad insurance companies are and how bad insurance
defense lawyers are.
Because I cannot imagine a more despicable job than than
than trying to limit the amount of money somebody gets in a
wrongful death or an accident suit.
(29:54):
Not again. You get to defend against the fraudulent cases,
the fraudulent people that are, but these defense lawyers
that if somebody's got $100,000 worth of insurance coverage
and that's it. And and on paper, the the claim is worth
$250,000. Why are you spending $20,000 taking depositions
and defending the damn case instead of just paying the
(30:14):
money? Right. And just paying the money?
Speaker2: It's clear that it's two and a half times what they have (30:17):
undefined
coming. And if you just give them 100,000, at least it's
better than nothing.
Speaker1: It is. But then if you're if you're a defense lawyer, you're (30:23):
undefined
not you're not billing the hours that the firm needs to
justify what you're doing.
And it's wrong.
It's just it's immoral.
It's immoral. And I.
I just couldn't do it. I mean, I could I could have never
been a defense lawyer for a cigarette company knowing that
you're killing people.
I mean, there's just so many if lawyers would take a moral
(30:46):
stand, I'm talking about a criminal case because criminal
defense against the government is a whole different animal.
But in civil cases, if lawyers had a moral compass, we
would have half the cases that we would.
We would have. Right?
I mean, literally.
Speaker2: Exactly. Now, I was I was talking to when I was talking to (31:00):
undefined
Congressman Gosar and I was telling him about this life
insurance thing, I said, why can't we when you take a life
insurance policy out, have it recorded at the county
recorder? First thing he said was, well, it's a privacy
thing. I said, well, make it optional.
Make it an opt in so that there is a database that whenever
somebody dies, people can go to hopefully family, right?
(31:23):
Can go and say, hey, did my father have a life insurance
policy so that the insurance companies have to pay out on
these policies where they collected money for somebody's
entire life and they know the person's dead and they know
they have a policy. But there's no real way right now for
anybody to know about the insurance company.
And they're not telling. I'm not going to tell.
What do you think about that?
Well, registry.
Speaker1: Well, I agree with you. (31:43):
undefined
And I was actually going to tell producer Dan I think I got
a co-host. I mean, I need you as a co-host, I'm sure now,
because you I mean, bring it up.
Bring it up. That and I trust decision as a dentist.
That was impressive.
I mean, that was impressive.
Speaker2: You knew about that knowledge. Did you know about that? (32:00):
undefined
Speaker1: Yeah, because I mean, I taught sports law at Ohio State. (32:01):
undefined
So I know a little bit about the antitrust world and
insurance issues.
But the the reality is in these class action suits is
there's nobody that wins, doc.
There's nobody that wins.
But the lawyers.
Speaker2: I know, I know most people don't know if you should or if. (32:20):
undefined
Speaker1: You get lucky and you're and you're the happen to be the (32:22):
undefined
lead plaintiff, but it's the wrong system.
And again, it goes back to it all goes back to the quality
of the judiciary, which is is horrendous in states where
judges are elected.
Speaker2: Well, don't forget that it's the attorneys that work for. (32:38):
undefined
A dental. They're also guilty, right.
Because they should be saying to their bosses, this isn't
right. Well, no, I mean, not put it all in the judge.
Speaker1: Well, they're taking they're taking advantage of they're (32:48):
undefined
taking advantage of the system.
Now, that's not something I would do because I'd never
represent insurance company.
But when when the judges make it that easy for them, it's
hard for them not to just have their hands out and waste
all these time on these 95 depositions.
Well, actually, it's 95 depositions.
Knock each party.
Which means that which means all the lawyers, the 12
(33:11):
lawyers and associates that are billing for their for their
learning time as well.
Speaker2: In. (33:17):
undefined
Speaker1: Depositions. Yeah. So so you've got all these depositions (33:17):
undefined
with all these lawyers in a room saying the same the same
thing. Why?
Why? Most of them are doodling because they're not really
getting any information that they don't already know.
They just it just doesn't happen.
I mean, it's just a it's just it's a travesty.
I mean, it's a tragedy, a travesty that that lawyers can
(33:40):
get away from this or get away with this and judge is
allowing them to do it.
Speaker2: The other travesty is let's go back to dental health for a (33:44):
undefined
minute. It's a travesty that people still think their
insurance should cover the bill because they'll come in and
they'll say, I just want what my insurance covers.
Oh, and when I use up my yearly max, I guess I'll wait till
next year.
Speaker1: So does that mean you only take out two of the bad teeth (33:58):
undefined
instead of the third one?
Speaker2: It does. Or we only fill. (34:03):
undefined
Or you've got a cavity that is just a filling today.
But if you wait a year, it's going to be a root canal,
which will mean a crown. Also, do you take a, I don't know,
$150 filling a tooth that needs that?
And you wait a year because their insurance ran out so
quickly because it's 1960 money.
And now when they come back and say, okay, I'm ready to get
that tooth, now it's like a 3000 tag price tag because now
(34:24):
it's a root canal and it's a crown and it's also a filling
and sometimes it's an extraction which maybe needs an
implant or a bridge.
And so I try to tell people, you won't live long enough to
ever get your mouth healthy.
Now, did you know that dental disease is the most unmet
health need in the nation?
Speaker1: Well, I do well related to that. (34:40):
undefined
I do know that that dentist and and I doctors have been
with the same amount of training as an internist, have been
the stepchild when it comes to the insurance coverage.
Right. Right. I mean, you guys you guys are not getting
treated like, you.
Speaker2: Know, and here's here's what for some reason, the insurance (34:54):
undefined
industry takes the human body and treats it like it's a
headless horseman. So everything from your neck down,
shoulders down is covered, including podiatry care, so you
can get a Korn taken off.
Speaker1: I forgot about that. (35:08):
undefined
Speaker2: It's true. Corn taking off for the same, you know, coverage. (35:09):
undefined
That's your medical insurance. But boy, if it's above the
neck, oh, my goodness. It has to be an extra policy.
You have to have dental coverage.
You have to have mental health coverage.
You have to have vision coverage.
Why are they allowed to do that?
It's all one human body.
How can they just say, well, we're only going to pay part
on this and maybe not cover that at all and people don't
(35:29):
understand. So they think they come in.
Oh, here's the thing. You get in a car accident, right?
You take they take you to the hospital.
You rack up an $85,000 bill to get patched up.
Right. It's covered except for a few hundred dollars.
That's awesome. By the way, the reason they can do that is
because not everybody is getting in those car accidents.
You got people like me that aren't sick, aren't in
accidents, but on the way home, you can get in another car
accident, go back in for another 35 or 40,000, and that too
(35:52):
is paid dentistry.
You get $1,000, right?
Maybe 1500.
Doesn't matter what you need.
Does it matter how much pain you're in, how many teeth are
rotten that you can't eat, can't sleep?
Doesn't matter. It's not covered.
Speaker1: That I do not know. That's that's incredible. (36:04):
undefined
That's that's incredible.
But but one of the things I want I want the listeners in
this podcast to know about not only what you're doing to
try to help the industry and, and help your patients get
better is I know what you do because I've seen your rig.
I want you to talk about this monster rig that you have
(36:26):
that you paid for out of your pocket and how you serve the
homeless community, because I think that's just incredible.
Speaker2: So I have this 52 foot motor home. (36:34):
undefined
And when I say that people think I'm misspeaking,
misspeaking because the big rigs that you see for like a
traveling superstar of some sort, maybe, I don't know, just
pick your famous somebody famous that's going to go well.
Oh, you did the music stuff, right?
So those buses are 40, 45, I'm sorry, 45 feet long.
(36:56):
Right. So mine's seven feet longer than the ones that you
I'm talking about. Only because it's a it's a truck.
It started off as a truck. It's got seven foot engine in
front. So what we did is I bought portable and I tried to
get funding from everybody and anybody that I could.
And nobody, even the dental supply places that the people
that I buy all my stuff from thousands and thousands of
dollars. You know, what they told me when I applied for
(37:17):
help was they told the sales rep, well, you know, he's a
dentist, he can afford to make payments.
Even though I clear I was going to be doing it for free.
I've never charged the cent for anything I do in the motor
home, so I bought two portable dental chairs, two portable
dental lights, two portable dental units, the kind that
create the suction and the and the air and water spray and
all that. And so we worked right now with and I did.
(37:40):
Gesture from the heart at my office for seven years, where
we opened up the entire ten stories and had all kinds of
volunteers, and we just took care of hundreds of people.
And over time, over seven years, I also brought team smile
to town twice, working with the Blue Jackets.
And so I'm probably responsible for four or 5000 people
(38:01):
getting free dental care, you know, in that decade.
But I'm still doing it. So I work with a thing called Make
a Day Foundation, and they work with the homeless.
They actually go into the homeless encampments and they
drop off flyers. They know where they are and they bring
them in and they do a haircut and they feed them and they
have a lawyer that comes and donates their time and gives,
(38:23):
um, advice to them on.
Speaker1: The real lawyer. (38:24):
undefined
Speaker2: Yeah, the real lawyer, yeah. (38:25):
undefined
And then, um, we do free dental care and they would have us
come every month if we could.
But it cost me about between paying my, my employees diesel
fuel, um, payment on the, on the rig and supplies.
It costs me about $5,000 to do an event.
(38:46):
And so I have to limit how many of those I can do because
again, I'm not gotten any help.
And the ironic thing is, is Delta Dental, I'm going to tie
this back in because one of the ways they got the state
reps and senators to kind of be their friend was they told
them, look, we've donated $300,000 to Ohio State.
So they could we bought their dental bus for them.
(39:07):
Right. Well, in that one year alone, Delta Dental had
withheld $100,000 from me.
They had these things almost like the the PBM clawbacks for
pharmacy. They would take part of our money back even
though we earned it and they would keep it.
And supposedly at the end of the year, if their numbers
looked good, they would give it to us, but they never did.
And so they donated this bus to OSU with money, my money
(39:30):
and two other dentists. And you know how many dentists
probably send claims to Delta Dental.
So they like their think of them as all this wonderful this
wonderful business is helping poor people and so on.
And money came from me and two other dentists, but I had to
buy my rig on my own with no help.
Right. I'm still making payments on it, by the way, but it's
really rewarding. My staff loves it.
They don't love that I make them come back to the office
(39:52):
and see patients again.
They would like us just to go do it and go home, but I
still have to pay the bills, right?
So we go in and like I'll go in to see patients at seven on
a day. We're going to do this.
I'll see patients till ten.
Actually, on that same day I will have gotten up at 430,
drove, driven the rig.
I'm the only one that can drive it because I have a so I've
driven the rig and set it up on site which was either one
(40:14):
was at Lineage Brewing, one was at Standard Hall.
There's a parking lot right next to it or wherever they're
setting up. And then I go back to the office in time for 7
a.m. patient. I see patients till ten, then I leave and I
go do this event and then I'm back at the office for 330, a
3:00 patient and I work till six.
So I've gotten 6 hours of patient time in and in the middle
(40:35):
of that day. What would that be for 5 hours in the middle,
I'm doing free stuff and that's the only way I can kind of
pay the bills. Well, you know.
Speaker1: Well, it's it's awesome. (40:43):
undefined
I mean, it's really awesome what you're doing.
I mean, I frankly, I mean, half the reason I wanted you
here was to talk about what you're doing for these people.
I mean, which is incredible. We'll put we'll put that that
information in the show notes.
But I wanted to give you a chance to vent, and I wanted to
give me a chance to talk about bad class action lawyers and
and bad judges.
(41:04):
But I really appreciate you coming, doc.
I think this this is this is educational for people.
We revisit this again.
But I wanted you because you lived it your real life.
This is this is a passion.
You brought it to my attention.
I wouldn't have known about this particular case and the
scam that they're doing, but I really appreciate you being
(41:24):
here today.
Speaker2: You're very welcome. And just a parting note would be for (41:25):
undefined
people listening. Don't let your dental insurance company
decide what's good for you.
If your dentist says you need something, don't wait a year.
Don't wait two years. Just try to figure out how to get it.
When people go to the auto repair, they know they're going
to have to pay the bill. When you go to Kroger's, you know
you're not walking out with groceries without paying the
bill. People don't have insurance, walk in my dental office
(41:45):
knowing they're going to have to pay the bill.
And those people are actually better off and tend to be
healthier because they walk in knowing there's going to be
an expense here. And by the way, people hate paying for
things that they need and they don't mind paying for things
that they want. Here's an example.
You take a car, right?
Your car needs transmission work, right?
Everybody hates that. And everybody, they're pissed off.
(42:05):
How am I going to get around this?
You know, you have companies come in and say they're going
to help pay the bill for you.
And it's like but that same person might go out and spend
1500 bucks on chrome wheels, spinners or whatever.
Right. And they don't complain a bit because it's something
they want. We complain about things that we need when it
comes to paying the bill, but we don't care about things
that we want because it's cool.
(42:25):
A new paint job or new, you know, fancy whatever.
So basically what I'm saying is, is everybody should want a
healthy mouth. Everybody should want to have their
restorations, fix their cavities, fix their abscess is
done. Don't walk. Around with pus dripping out of your gum,
which people do.
Speaker1: But you have to fight. (42:42):
undefined
You have to fight that mentality that that that everybody
has that says, I've got insurance and it pays for
everything. I know. I mean, that's.
Speaker2: The minute they tell me that you're. (42:51):
undefined
Speaker1: Fighting that every day, right? (42:52):
undefined
Speaker2: Every day. And on a new patient, you have to be kind of (42:53):
undefined
subtle with it because you don't want them to think that
it's just me. I'll just say, you know, you know, just so
you know, insurance never pays the whole bill and anything.
They don't pay as much as you think.
In fact, they're probably going to pay very little.
But we'll let the girls up front who understand the
insurance and you guys can talk.
Speaker1: And explain it. (43:11):
undefined
Speaker2: Yeah. So we'll know how much your part's gonna be. (43:11):
undefined
Speaker1: That's awesome. That's awesome. (43:14):
undefined
That's good advice in this podcast with.
Thanks, doc.
Speaker2: You're very welcome. Thanks for having me on. (43:18):
undefined
Speaker1: Now to Brett's rant, I actually I'm still pissed off about (43:21):
undefined
that. That damn judge had fired the pregnant lady, but to
the issue at hand.
And Dr. FICO was really good in explaining his frustration
about this process.
But we've got to have a better way to deal with these class
action suits. I mean, how many how many of you have gotten
(43:41):
a mailer? And it used to be the phone companies or the
Internet company or, you know, you get a check for a dollar
27 that shows up in the mail because you were part of the
million person class when the lawyers were making millions
and millions of dollars.
And in the case that we talked about with with the Franklin
(44:02):
County and the the perverts that were taking the pictures,
you know, if you're in that class, opt out, you're going to
get more than $2,000.
You can't tell me that that the public humiliation, the
humiliation of having to undress and have some pervert take
a picture of your breast, your private body parts, it's
(44:23):
certainly worth more than than $2,000.
But we've got to get back to getting it all comes back to
the competency of the judges and the judges to to be able
to control these class action lawsuits who are in the
class, how much the lawyers are making, what the defense
is. And until we have that competency and even the case, we
(44:44):
decided at the federal level that that judge is simply not
competent to understand that you don't need 95 depositions
on each side to determine the outcome of this case.
So we've got to figure out a better a better system, guys.
But but class actions, they suck.
They suck. That's my rant of the day.
(45:04):
And as always, thanks so much for listening to Lawyers are
assholes.
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