February 4, 2020 • 22 mins
On this episode, Sammy Jaye catches Grammy-winner and 2020 Producer of the Year FINNEAS backstage at the iHeartRadio Jingle Ball while 20,000 fans eagerly await his performance with his sister & writing partner Billie Eilish. Sammy and FINNEAS unpack how life has changed for him over the past 18 months, the personal toll of losing a friend, why his favorite new producers are barely 16, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey guys, it's Sammy j I am so excited for
this episode. In this episode, I had the amazing Phineas
on my podcast. He and his sister Billie Eilish are
just rewriting the record books on how you create and
distribute music. Just take a look at what they did
at the Grammy's last week, winning a total of ten
Grammys between the two of them. We spoke backstage at
(00:22):
a concert where some twenty thousand people were waiting to
hear him and Billy take the stage. It was just
prior to their record breaking Grammy name and twenty nineteen
were incredible years for Phineas and Billy, just completely changing
their lives. How has it changed, what have they learned
from it? And what didn't they see coming? Is where
we started our conversation. That's really interesting. Um, I mean, yeah,
(00:48):
it doesn't really feel like anything in my life, especially
on the day to day level, is the same as
it was eighteen months ago. Like eight months everything I
think everything was and then I mean, but that could
be sort of said about like the red I'm twenty two,
so that was eighteen months ago, was twenty you know.
I mean there's like you could you could kind of
say that in just those years of your life. I
(01:10):
don't know that it has so much to do with
the things that have happened in Arrow, because you also
grow as a person. It's hard to exact months ago
your fifteen, right, you know, weird, that's pretty wild, you know. Yeah,
I mean you're I'm assuming you're basically a completely different
person now than you were at fifteen. Yeah, different person
than I was like a year ago. I know. Yeah, yeah,
(01:31):
And I feel like that that's a are you do
you feel like you're a nostalgic Do you miss like
being a little kid at all? Oh? Yeah, Disney Plus,
I've been rewatching Hannah Montana with like all of my ods,
and it makes me happy because you know, you remember,
you feel that innocence again. But like I'm trying not
to go too deep down it because then you're just
(01:51):
like living in the past. Yeah, that's really interesting. Disney Plus,
I love that you brought that up because it's such
a good example of like nostalgia factor. Yeah, everyone's on there,
like even Stevens and the sand Lot, Wizards of Waverly
Place and you know all that stuff, which is Yeah,
it's so fun to revisit that stuff because you get
to feel but it's like, like, I think there are
certain elements of that. And my girlfriend and I've both
(02:14):
done this where you show your significant other or just
your close friend a thing that bear like significance in
your childhood and you watch it with like the eyes
of a of a seventeen year old or a twenty
two year old, and you you see all the flaws
and you're like, that's like you look over at your
friends watching it for the first time and you're like,
oh my god. I don't know if this is good
or if I just liked it when I was five.
(02:34):
I know, but I will say Swevon Zack and Cody
and Hannah Montana does hold up. No it doesn't. Yes,
it does. It absolutely does not. I disagree with you completely.
Well you're seventeen, Yeah, that's true. I'm still in it.
I was whatever, like eight when those shows, Disney Show,
those shows. I loved those shows. Yeah. Yeah, do you
(02:55):
know that Jason Roles, the brother of Hannah Montana, was
like thirty five when they were filming it. I remember
finding that out like like the third or fourth season
and got so weirded out by it. Crazy right, It
like freaks you out. It does kind of freak you
out because in the show he's like seventeen I remember,
and this is, you know, much respect to Jason Earles.
(03:15):
I'm not trying to slander him. But my friend Katie
McCarry worked at a diner and she was like, yeah,
Jason Earles comes into the diner a lot, and he
always wears like like a baseball cap and like sunglasses
in his hood up and I'm always like, dude, chill out.
You're not that famous. But you know what, if he
feels good, that's all that matters. But I think that
is sort of the the implication that he that he's
(03:37):
self conscious and he doesn't want people bother you know
what I mean that he's like basically in this guy.
And her point was like, how many people are gonna
bother like like a post Hannah Montana man, I totally would, right, Yeah, well,
I'm he's trying to hide from me. Yeah, maybe he's
just grow a beard, a gray beard of a forty
year old. Yeah, he's probably that age now. He was
(04:00):
he had kids and a wife during the show. Stop
yeah crazy, right, you're like shattering my hand in one
I'm so sorry. Wow, it's a coming of age moment. Yeah,
oh my god, what I'm saying. You can't know these things?
To go back and watch it. It It doesn't hold up,
that's true. Wow, oh my god. What I'm still processing that. Yeah.
But and then I mean, but we uh Billy and
(04:22):
Claude and I watched the final I'd never one of
those things where like, I guess I grew up faster
than the show was airing. And the other day we're like,
how did Wizards Wherever the Place end? And we watched
like the final two episodes of the show. Do you
want me to spoiler alert of this podcast? Um, Alex
wins the wizard competition and gets to keep the powers,
(04:44):
and then Justin becomes the headmaster of the school at
like eighteen years old, and he also gets to keep
his powers. And Max just takes over the family sandwich
shop and is and is so good, completely stoked about it,
can't believe his luck. Clearly, and and the parents in
the show when you rewatch it, clearly play favoritism. Think
the other two kids are brilliant. Think Max is a
(05:06):
real dud. Really don't root for him at all, don't
give him the support. Yeah, it was sad made sad
for him. What's just moving on from? Because I can't
focus on ruining any more of my childhood memories? Um?
How many songs do you write? A hear? That's an
interesting question. I don't really count, um if you had
to estimate from nineteen Um, I mean it depends. We
(05:28):
One of the funny things about especially the way that
I work with Billy is we don't we don't A
lot of the time artists will write like forty songs
and then put out like a twelve song album, and
we just we just make the songs that end up
coming out. We sort of it's a little bit like
writing a script for a movie or something like. We
just write a beginning in the middle and an end
and then and then and then we work on those
(05:49):
until we're really satisfied with them. So, I mean, you know,
there weren't there weren't like tons of songs during the
when we all fall asleep writing period that that didn't
come out. We just were writing those songs and then
and then recording them and working on them and fixing lines. Um.
But you know, I sort of I write a little
bit like, Um, you might like if you were like
(06:10):
a marathon runner, you'd like you'd try to keep running
regularly to keep your like stamina up, I guess, And
I kind of try to write songs in that fashion,
where like, if I have a week where I haven't
written a song, I feel like I'm getting lazy. So
I'll go sit down right and see you do it
at least once a week. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I
mean I think oftentimes a song is kind of like
a one sitting thing to take psycho about an hour
(06:33):
or two, and then sometimes like I get somewhere and
then I revisited over long periods of time, like I
Love You as like a one a one night song.
Such a good song, Thanks so much. I'm so glad
you like it. It's so beautiful, and I think it's
just one of the song that's timeless. Thank you so much,
you know what I mean. Yeah, Well, that's that. I mean.
I can't say that about my own stuff, but it
(06:53):
really means a lot that you say that. Um, I think, Hubris.
I think it's one of the many things the Internet
doesn't really like about people. It's just people bragging with themselves,
which people do a lot on the internet, But um, yeah,
I mean that song. That song was like a one
night song. I'm trying to think of like a long
like Elo Milow on Billy's record took forever, Like that
was a song that we had like some melodies for
(07:15):
like how long would you say that to, like a
couple of months, but not like sitting down and working
on it every day. We just would We would try
it out and sort of see if we had any
good ideas and kind of not have any good ideas.
And then one day we had some of the melodies
worked out, and then Billy was like on a flight
to i think fashion Week or something, and on the
plane had really good ideas and sent them to me
and I was like, oh, those are amazing. So you
(07:36):
do it all on your computer? Uh huh Yeah, there's
no there's no cool notebooks or napkins or fogged up
glass on a car window for me to show lyrics.
It's all iPhone. Use an app called evernote on my iPhone,
and then just same thing on a computer. I think
it's so crazy that you know where when we all
(07:58):
fall asleep, where do we go? It's it blew up
and it became a cultural moment just that album. It's insane.
Isn't that crazy to think that you did it all
like via your just laptop? And super crazy because people
would think you needed like a high tech studio, but
you really don't. I know, it's very wild, and I
mean really, I hope it's really empowering for kids that
(08:20):
you know are in the same I was trying to
explain this to a person yesterday that like when I
first started recording music myself, like sitting at my own
computer recording it, I think I was like fifteen, and
like I knews like like a zero point zero, Like
I knew nothing about it, and even like figuring out
(08:40):
the right terms to Google to find out how to
start recording was complicated, even going like how to plug
microphone into computer like people like, it was just I
was at like ground zero, and so it took so
long for me to learn anything. And I think hopefully
just in the um seven year since I was fifteen,
(09:01):
probably because you know, way more young people are producing
music themselves even then then. You know, My hope is
that information is really easy to access for kids and
that they don't feel like someone else holds the the
secret ingredient because I definitely felt that way. I definitely
felt like the grown ups knew what they were doing
and I was just a kid and I had stupid ideas.
(09:23):
But like that's changing now. I feel like I think
I hope so, Yeah, I really hope so because I
think I mean the stuff I'm the most impressed by,
like myself as a producer and other producers like you know,
apologies to my like like old older producer friends who
are all brilliant, Like all the stuff I'm really impressed by,
it's like made by like sixteen year olds these days,
(09:43):
because like SoundCloud, like so many incredible people are on
there and some only have like views. Isn't that crazy? Yeah,
that's like where I get the most excited. It's when
I find something brand new. Yeah, Like modern technology is
so cool. My brothers in college and he started just
making music with his friends via his computer, and I'm like,
you know, go you like right, Yeah? Is college the
(10:06):
thing you think you want to go to? YEA? Why? Um?
I think for me, I think like traditional like school,
it's not for me, Like I go to high school,
but like my brain doesn't necessarily like test this this,
Like my I'm a very creative person. Thank you. I
like to you know, I like to sew. I like
(10:27):
to do a bunch of fun stuff, and it's it's
hard when everyone's like, oh my god, I have to
get like an a and people are crying over two
because it was in a test. And I think, you know,
when you you have to kind of put things into perspective,
and I feel like, you know, doing this podcast, it
kind of has for me like knowing what really is
important to me, and I think going to school is
(10:48):
important to me. Um. For me, I just feel like
I wouldn't want to do just like math and reading,
which is great for some people, like my brother loves that,
but I think I'd want to go to very like
creative arts interesting just to learn more than what I can.
I guess I find that all interesting because you're essentially
saying you want to go to college but you're not
interested in scholastics, which I'm not either, But I never
(11:10):
wanted to go to college. So anytime I meet someone
who's interested in the arts, because I love learning though
that's the thing, well yeah no, but I love learning
in um the sense of with a bunch of other people,
and I think it's so funny. If I can give
you one piece of advice, I think you already seem
very creative and very thoughtful and and like you have
(11:31):
a real sort of awareness of who you are as
a person. And I always worry that when people go
to art schools they're too willing to have other people
tell them what's wrong with their art. And I would,
I would encourage you not to let people boss you around.
You go to go to art school. Tons of people
have come out of art school and I had a
wonderful time. But just don't let people tell you that
your art is not good, because I've had friends that
(11:53):
have had that happen. It's all about interpretation, Like it
doesn't exactly exactly, they'll interpret it, and they might they
might give you an ide you that's interesting that you
can try. But if they just don't get it, then
you get you have to go like, well, I understand
what I made and you don't understand what I made.
(12:13):
What do you think your favorite part of social media
is and what do you hate about it the most?
Because it can be really great and really awful at
the same time. Well, I think I feel like you
know we in our specific instance, the whole reason that
we have careers because of our sort of social media
platform that we've been able to stand on and broadcast
(12:33):
our music too. So so I feel sort of entirely
indebted to social media. Um. I mean, I think it's
definitely like I've been a sort of a leveling field
for other forms of media and entertainment. And I think
that's like a good and a bad thing in certain ways,
because people aren't able to like really control the narrative
(12:54):
of something. And I think that's that's a positive thing,
and I think sometimes it's a negative thing because just
means that people's random opinions and hot takes of things
are taken as seriously as sort of fact. And I
think that that's kind of yes. But I think in general,
the Internet, you know, provided everyone in this room with
like career opportunities. So I think that is really excitingly true.
(13:15):
I think there are so many pros and cons to it.
And then if you think about I feel like everybody
feels like they have an opinion on the Internet. It's
like they feel the need to share that I so
agree with you, and it's it really like annoys me, like,
and I think the the example I give it, and
this isn't the Internet, but like I was watching a movie.
I think I was watching like Captain America at one time.
We've never seen it in a movie theater a friend
(13:37):
of mine and there was a trailer for I think
the movie A Red Sparrow in the like that was
the trailer running, and my friend leaned over to me
and he was like, I'm not a really, I'm not
a Jennifer Lawrence fan. And I was like, oh no,
do you want me to tell her? Who cares? If
you're she's a bazillionaire and also incredible and also like
(14:00):
you're just sitting here having in a pit. And to me,
that's like the distillation of like a lot of what
like internet reviews of things like I don't yeah, Like
what do you came from saying that? Um? I think
I think people feel a certain way and then feel
like they're they're unique for sharing the way that they feel.
It's an odd thing, I mean, But then I think
(14:21):
a lot of people, like in my life, the like
bonding points to me in my life are more negative
than positive, Like if I if I dislike something the
same amount as someone else, like I can't stand like
like styrofoam being like touched kind of in any way,
you know what I mean, when you try to break
styrofrom up put it in a trash can or something
that like, that's my like nails on a chalkboard. When
(14:43):
I found someone else that like hates that also, I'm like,
wow that we have to bond over. It's like but
it's like, negatives are more potent than positives. I think.
I think if you go I love the Beatles, someone
else because oh my god, me too, it's one thing.
But if you go like I hate someone, so another
person goes, oh, I also don't like their music at all?
You know, Yeah, isn't it interesting? Yeah? How do you
(15:05):
feel if you know, since you've really seen a lot
of music and the Internet can go like ham on
everyone's opinions, how do you keep it in a healthy
way and have a healthy relationship with social media? I
have a super unhealthy relationship with the Internet. A lot
of the Internet loves the stuff that we've made, and
if they hated it, I would be depressed based so
much of my self worth on the Internet. It's bad.
(15:25):
That's so many people in the fact that you actually
say it, so many people are like no, I know,
people love to pretend that they would be fine with that.
And I like whenever someone gets like and public shaming
is one thing, because oftentimes that's actually correlated with someone
doing something reprehensible, right like saying something racist forever and
then they get public shame. And I think that's in
(15:46):
certain terms kind of healthy. You go like, there's the
consequence for from it. But then there are cases like
when like Friday came out like the Rebecca Black song,
and she immediately got death threats and I was like, yeah,
well that's so crazy at like the dislikes on that video.
It's like she was a teenager. I know, I know,
and Rebecca is a friend of mine, and it's it's
(16:07):
you know, she's when I first met her. I tried
to just sort of leave her alone about it because
I'm the same age as her. So when I was thirteen,
she was thirteen in that video came out, and I
remember like when I was like nineteen I got to
know her. I was like after a couple of days
of now where I was like, I have to ask
you some questions about how you dealt into it, because
I was so I was so impressed. I think mainly
it's like when you because I didn't ever have to
(16:29):
nobody knew who I was at thirteen, When you're exposed
to at such a young age, well then that's like
when stuff is actually scary, like you read like death
threats online and it's actually, you know, really concerning at
that age because you don't know what to take seriously
and what someone is just saying. But I think the
kids that are have handled it in the most impressive fashion.
I mean, now it's Greta Thunberg, but for the last
(16:50):
two years it was it was the Parkland students, the
Stonman Douglas High School students. Their response to everything and
the amount of hatred came their way for you know,
surviving a school shooting and the way they handled it
and so wild. Kredith Thunberg, she's just amazing. And it
blows my mind that all of these like grown ups
(17:10):
are making like fun of and just being so rude
to what she's sixteen. I think they're really like furthering
her point. I think they're they're making her seem even
even more powerful and and I think, like you know,
in certain ways, like yeah, just just even stronger. And
(17:34):
even more important in her cause and in her stance,
and so yeah, I I think it's hilarious if you
if you were a person that would if you were
a climate change denierr or you know whatever, and you
spoke out against it's like you're you're valorizing their whole
opinion exactly. Just crazy. Well, I'm gonna talk to your EPA.
(17:54):
I just want to say I lost a friend. When
I heard that. I was like, WHOA, Really, I went
through a very sim my situation just slowly disintegrated. What
how did you heal from that? Because it's really hard,
It's so hard. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you went
through the same thing that I went through. And I
feel like the thing that the song has taught me
(18:16):
more than any other thing is just that so many
people have because I guess I and part of the
reason I wanted to write that song was was that
I didn't you know when you like when you go
through an emotional experience in your life and you know
what song to put on to me, Like I don't know,
like I went through some breakup and like like when
I was much younger, and I was like, I know
(18:36):
that I want to listen to this song the Best
of You by Food Fighters. I was like, I just
know that that's how I'm feeling right now, and I guess,
to me, the feeling of like a close personal friendship
falling apart. I didn't have like a soundtrack to that,
and so I just perfect song. I was like, I
have to write it. But it's been it's been sobering
and also sort of comforting that so many people go
(18:58):
through that with their friends and have friendships that all apart.
And I think the funny thing about a friendship falling
apart is oftentimes if it's your best friend, they've been
with you through all the other relationship. Well, but it's
like when you have the best friend there, they were
there with you through the breakup and everything, you know.
So anyway, writing that song, I mean that was helpful
(19:18):
in the healing process of going through that. And I mean,
in my specific instance, I was able to reconnect with
with my friend and we're you know, we're close again.
But I've I've also had friendships in my life fall
apart and have not been able to, you know, reconcile
them for whatever reason. And that's really tough because you
don't get a sense of closure. So that's really tough.
(19:39):
But you know, my hope is that you know, people
understand that, like they're they're usually not to blame or blameless. Really,
it's kind of everything happens for a reason. I truly
believe that. Interesting, do you believe that? Really? Yeah? No,
I don't. There's too much super sad, that's true. I'm
in my bubble though right now, right yeah. I think
(20:00):
on a kind of a personal like whatever like destiny
means to a person, you can kind of let that
and you go like wow, if I'm not talking about
the wider world, okay, well then yeah, I understand that.
If you're in your personal life, you go like, wow,
if I hadn't made that one mistake, I wouldn't have
ended up here. And this is the greatest you know
what I mean. It's like one of those funny things.
If that thing that I wanted more than anything had
(20:21):
worked out, I wouldn't have gotten anything. It was even better.
But then there's like you just get to a place
where you're like, oh, there's like that kid was born
with brain cancer, and you're just like everything happens for reasons. Yeah,
that's the stuff that just doesn't make sense in the world. Yeah,
I think on a personal level, I think that's a
comforting thing to think in your life. So in the future,
(20:41):
when you probably win many Grammys, many more albums, how
do you want to be remembered as an artist? That's
so interesting? Wow, that's so cool. I mean, I guess
I would compare, you know, any music that I'm making
to the importance of the music that I loved when
I was younger. Um, and I guess to the importance
(21:03):
of music that I love now. But I feel like, really,
when you're like ten to twenty is like when you're
just when you're deciding your your real taste in in
art and in sort of what you're consuming, and you
you form real opinions and you and you really feel
heard and seen and your your I mean, ten to
twenty is like all your first you're going through like
every like real emotion and emotional experience for the first time,
(21:25):
and a lot of that music carries you through those
I think to me, like anytime anyone tells me that
they've had experience with my music that I can then
relate to like an experience I had with music growing
up or a live show. That's that's plenty for me.
So I guess, you know, just just little things like
that are kind of more meaningful and make me feel
(21:48):
the most joy is hearing you know how how music
resonates with people. You know, music is insane, which is
what it does and how it affects people. I think
it's so beautiful. It's one of the few art forms
that fits into like every other art form, right, It's like, yeah,
there's you know, it's it's so sort of universal, which
is really exciting. Well, just congratulations on the best, and
(22:12):
thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Thanks
for taking time to sit with me. I really appreciate it. Awesome.
Thank you for Phineas. Everybody. Make sure you check out
phineas his epeople at Harmony and follow Phineas on all
of his socials and also follow me on Instagram It's
at It's Sammy J I T S S A M
(22:35):
M Y J A Y, and I also highly recommend
you following our podcast account It's Sammy J Dot. Let's
be real. Oh see you guys for the next episode. Bye.
Hey guys, it's Sammy j I am so excited for
this episode. In this episode, I had the amazing Phineas
on my podcast. He and his sister Billie Eilish are
just rewriting the record books on how you create and
distribute music. Just take a look at what they did
at the Grammy's last week, winning a total of ten
Grammys between the two of them. We spoke backstage at
(00:22):
a concert where some twenty thousand people were waiting to
hear him and Billy take the stage. It was just
prior to their record breaking Grammy name and twenty nineteen
were incredible years for Phineas and Billy, just completely changing
their lives. How has it changed, what have they learned
from it? And what didn't they see coming? Is where
we started our conversation. That's really interesting. Um, I mean, yeah,
(00:48):
it doesn't really feel like anything in my life, especially
on the day to day level, is the same as
it was eighteen months ago. Like eight months everything I
think everything was and then I mean, but that could
be sort of said about like the red I'm twenty two,
so that was eighteen months ago, was twenty you know.
I mean there's like you could you could kind of
say that in just those years of your life. I
(01:10):
don't know that it has so much to do with
the things that have happened in Arrow, because you also
grow as a person. It's hard to exact months ago
your fifteen, right, you know, weird, that's pretty wild, you know. Yeah,
I mean you're I'm assuming you're basically a completely different
person now than you were at fifteen. Yeah, different person
than I was like a year ago. I know. Yeah, yeah,
(01:31):
And I feel like that that's a are you do
you feel like you're a nostalgic Do you miss like
being a little kid at all? Oh? Yeah, Disney Plus,
I've been rewatching Hannah Montana with like all of my ods,
and it makes me happy because you know, you remember,
you feel that innocence again. But like I'm trying not
to go too deep down it because then you're just
(01:51):
like living in the past. Yeah, that's really interesting. Disney Plus,
I love that you brought that up because it's such
a good example of like nostalgia factor. Yeah, everyone's on there,
like even Stevens and the sand Lot, Wizards of Waverly
Place and you know all that stuff, which is Yeah,
it's so fun to revisit that stuff because you get
to feel but it's like, like, I think there are
certain elements of that. And my girlfriend and I've both
(02:14):
done this where you show your significant other or just
your close friend a thing that bear like significance in
your childhood and you watch it with like the eyes
of a of a seventeen year old or a twenty
two year old, and you you see all the flaws
and you're like, that's like you look over at your
friends watching it for the first time and you're like,
oh my god. I don't know if this is good
or if I just liked it when I was five.
(02:34):
I know, but I will say Swevon Zack and Cody
and Hannah Montana does hold up. No it doesn't. Yes,
it does. It absolutely does not. I disagree with you completely.
Well you're seventeen, Yeah, that's true. I'm still in it.
I was whatever, like eight when those shows, Disney Show,
those shows. I loved those shows. Yeah. Yeah, do you
(02:55):
know that Jason Roles, the brother of Hannah Montana, was
like thirty five when they were filming it. I remember
finding that out like like the third or fourth season
and got so weirded out by it. Crazy right, It
like freaks you out. It does kind of freak you
out because in the show he's like seventeen I remember,
and this is, you know, much respect to Jason Earles.
(03:15):
I'm not trying to slander him. But my friend Katie
McCarry worked at a diner and she was like, yeah,
Jason Earles comes into the diner a lot, and he
always wears like like a baseball cap and like sunglasses
in his hood up and I'm always like, dude, chill out.
You're not that famous. But you know what, if he
feels good, that's all that matters. But I think that
is sort of the the implication that he that he's
(03:37):
self conscious and he doesn't want people bother you know
what I mean that he's like basically in this guy.
And her point was like, how many people are gonna
bother like like a post Hannah Montana man, I totally would, right, Yeah, well,
I'm he's trying to hide from me. Yeah, maybe he's
just grow a beard, a gray beard of a forty
year old. Yeah, he's probably that age now. He was
(04:00):
he had kids and a wife during the show. Stop
yeah crazy, right, you're like shattering my hand in one
I'm so sorry. Wow, it's a coming of age moment. Yeah,
oh my god, what I'm saying. You can't know these things?
To go back and watch it. It It doesn't hold up,
that's true. Wow, oh my god. What I'm still processing that. Yeah.
But and then I mean, but we uh Billy and
(04:22):
Claude and I watched the final I'd never one of
those things where like, I guess I grew up faster
than the show was airing. And the other day we're like,
how did Wizards Wherever the Place end? And we watched
like the final two episodes of the show. Do you
want me to spoiler alert of this podcast? Um, Alex
wins the wizard competition and gets to keep the powers,
(04:44):
and then Justin becomes the headmaster of the school at
like eighteen years old, and he also gets to keep
his powers. And Max just takes over the family sandwich
shop and is and is so good, completely stoked about it,
can't believe his luck. Clearly, and and the parents in
the show when you rewatch it, clearly play favoritism. Think
the other two kids are brilliant. Think Max is a
(05:06):
real dud. Really don't root for him at all, don't
give him the support. Yeah, it was sad made sad
for him. What's just moving on from? Because I can't
focus on ruining any more of my childhood memories? Um?
How many songs do you write? A hear? That's an
interesting question. I don't really count, um if you had
to estimate from nineteen Um, I mean it depends. We
(05:28):
One of the funny things about especially the way that
I work with Billy is we don't we don't A
lot of the time artists will write like forty songs
and then put out like a twelve song album, and
we just we just make the songs that end up
coming out. We sort of it's a little bit like
writing a script for a movie or something like. We
just write a beginning in the middle and an end
and then and then and then we work on those
(05:49):
until we're really satisfied with them. So, I mean, you know,
there weren't there weren't like tons of songs during the
when we all fall asleep writing period that that didn't
come out. We just were writing those songs and then
and then recording them and working on them and fixing lines. Um.
But you know, I sort of I write a little
bit like, Um, you might like if you were like
(06:10):
a marathon runner, you'd like you'd try to keep running
regularly to keep your like stamina up, I guess, And
I kind of try to write songs in that fashion,
where like, if I have a week where I haven't
written a song, I feel like I'm getting lazy. So
I'll go sit down right and see you do it
at least once a week. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I
mean I think oftentimes a song is kind of like
a one sitting thing to take psycho about an hour
(06:33):
or two, and then sometimes like I get somewhere and
then I revisited over long periods of time, like I
Love You as like a one a one night song.
Such a good song, Thanks so much. I'm so glad
you like it. It's so beautiful, and I think it's
just one of the song that's timeless. Thank you so much,
you know what I mean. Yeah, Well, that's that. I mean.
I can't say that about my own stuff, but it
(06:53):
really means a lot that you say that. Um, I think, Hubris.
I think it's one of the many things the Internet
doesn't really like about people. It's just people bragging with themselves,
which people do a lot on the internet, But um, yeah,
I mean that song. That song was like a one
night song. I'm trying to think of like a long
like Elo Milow on Billy's record took forever, Like that
was a song that we had like some melodies for
(07:15):
like how long would you say that to, like a
couple of months, but not like sitting down and working
on it every day. We just would We would try
it out and sort of see if we had any
good ideas and kind of not have any good ideas.
And then one day we had some of the melodies
worked out, and then Billy was like on a flight
to i think fashion Week or something, and on the
plane had really good ideas and sent them to me
and I was like, oh, those are amazing. So you
(07:36):
do it all on your computer? Uh huh Yeah, there's
no there's no cool notebooks or napkins or fogged up
glass on a car window for me to show lyrics.
It's all iPhone. Use an app called evernote on my iPhone,
and then just same thing on a computer. I think
it's so crazy that you know where when we all
(07:58):
fall asleep, where do we go? It's it blew up
and it became a cultural moment just that album. It's insane.
Isn't that crazy to think that you did it all
like via your just laptop? And super crazy because people
would think you needed like a high tech studio, but
you really don't. I know, it's very wild, and I
mean really, I hope it's really empowering for kids that
(08:20):
you know are in the same I was trying to
explain this to a person yesterday that like when I
first started recording music myself, like sitting at my own
computer recording it, I think I was like fifteen, and
like I knews like like a zero point zero, Like
I knew nothing about it, and even like figuring out
(08:40):
the right terms to Google to find out how to
start recording was complicated, even going like how to plug
microphone into computer like people like, it was just I
was at like ground zero, and so it took so
long for me to learn anything. And I think hopefully
just in the um seven year since I was fifteen,
(09:01):
probably because you know, way more young people are producing
music themselves even then then. You know, My hope is
that information is really easy to access for kids and
that they don't feel like someone else holds the the
secret ingredient because I definitely felt that way. I definitely
felt like the grown ups knew what they were doing
and I was just a kid and I had stupid ideas.
(09:23):
But like that's changing now. I feel like I think
I hope so, Yeah, I really hope so because I
think I mean the stuff I'm the most impressed by,
like myself as a producer and other producers like you know,
apologies to my like like old older producer friends who
are all brilliant, Like all the stuff I'm really impressed by,
it's like made by like sixteen year olds these days,
(09:43):
because like SoundCloud, like so many incredible people are on
there and some only have like views. Isn't that crazy? Yeah,
that's like where I get the most excited. It's when
I find something brand new. Yeah, Like modern technology is
so cool. My brothers in college and he started just
making music with his friends via his computer, and I'm like,
you know, go you like right, Yeah? Is college the
(10:06):
thing you think you want to go to? YEA? Why? Um?
I think for me, I think like traditional like school,
it's not for me, Like I go to high school,
but like my brain doesn't necessarily like test this this,
Like my I'm a very creative person. Thank you. I
like to you know, I like to sew. I like
(10:27):
to do a bunch of fun stuff, and it's it's
hard when everyone's like, oh my god, I have to
get like an a and people are crying over two
because it was in a test. And I think, you know,
when you you have to kind of put things into perspective,
and I feel like, you know, doing this podcast, it
kind of has for me like knowing what really is
important to me, and I think going to school is
(10:48):
important to me. Um. For me, I just feel like
I wouldn't want to do just like math and reading,
which is great for some people, like my brother loves that,
but I think I'd want to go to very like
creative arts interesting just to learn more than what I can.
I guess I find that all interesting because you're essentially
saying you want to go to college but you're not
interested in scholastics, which I'm not either, But I never
(11:10):
wanted to go to college. So anytime I meet someone
who's interested in the arts, because I love learning though
that's the thing, well yeah no, but I love learning
in um the sense of with a bunch of other people,
and I think it's so funny. If I can give
you one piece of advice, I think you already seem
very creative and very thoughtful and and like you have
(11:31):
a real sort of awareness of who you are as
a person. And I always worry that when people go
to art schools they're too willing to have other people
tell them what's wrong with their art. And I would,
I would encourage you not to let people boss you around.
You go to go to art school. Tons of people
have come out of art school and I had a
wonderful time. But just don't let people tell you that
your art is not good, because I've had friends that
(11:53):
have had that happen. It's all about interpretation, Like it
doesn't exactly exactly, they'll interpret it, and they might they
might give you an ide you that's interesting that you
can try. But if they just don't get it, then
you get you have to go like, well, I understand
what I made and you don't understand what I made.
(12:13):
What do you think your favorite part of social media
is and what do you hate about it the most?
Because it can be really great and really awful at
the same time. Well, I think I feel like you
know we in our specific instance, the whole reason that
we have careers because of our sort of social media
platform that we've been able to stand on and broadcast
(12:33):
our music too. So so I feel sort of entirely
indebted to social media. Um. I mean, I think it's
definitely like I've been a sort of a leveling field
for other forms of media and entertainment. And I think
that's like a good and a bad thing in certain ways,
because people aren't able to like really control the narrative
(12:54):
of something. And I think that's that's a positive thing,
and I think sometimes it's a negative thing because just
means that people's random opinions and hot takes of things
are taken as seriously as sort of fact. And I
think that that's kind of yes. But I think in general,
the Internet, you know, provided everyone in this room with
like career opportunities. So I think that is really excitingly true.
(13:15):
I think there are so many pros and cons to it.
And then if you think about I feel like everybody
feels like they have an opinion on the Internet. It's
like they feel the need to share that I so
agree with you, and it's it really like annoys me, like,
and I think the the example I give it, and
this isn't the Internet, but like I was watching a movie.
I think I was watching like Captain America at one time.
We've never seen it in a movie theater a friend
(13:37):
of mine and there was a trailer for I think
the movie A Red Sparrow in the like that was
the trailer running, and my friend leaned over to me
and he was like, I'm not a really, I'm not
a Jennifer Lawrence fan. And I was like, oh no,
do you want me to tell her? Who cares? If
you're she's a bazillionaire and also incredible and also like
(14:00):
you're just sitting here having in a pit. And to me,
that's like the distillation of like a lot of what
like internet reviews of things like I don't yeah, Like
what do you came from saying that? Um? I think
I think people feel a certain way and then feel
like they're they're unique for sharing the way that they feel.
It's an odd thing, I mean, But then I think
(14:21):
a lot of people, like in my life, the like
bonding points to me in my life are more negative
than positive, Like if I if I dislike something the
same amount as someone else, like I can't stand like
like styrofoam being like touched kind of in any way,
you know what I mean, when you try to break
styrofrom up put it in a trash can or something
that like, that's my like nails on a chalkboard. When
(14:43):
I found someone else that like hates that also, I'm like,
wow that we have to bond over. It's like but
it's like, negatives are more potent than positives. I think.
I think if you go I love the Beatles, someone
else because oh my god, me too, it's one thing.
But if you go like I hate someone, so another
person goes, oh, I also don't like their music at all?
You know, Yeah, isn't it interesting? Yeah? How do you
(15:05):
feel if you know, since you've really seen a lot
of music and the Internet can go like ham on
everyone's opinions, how do you keep it in a healthy
way and have a healthy relationship with social media? I
have a super unhealthy relationship with the Internet. A lot
of the Internet loves the stuff that we've made, and
if they hated it, I would be depressed based so
much of my self worth on the Internet. It's bad.
(15:25):
That's so many people in the fact that you actually
say it, so many people are like no, I know,
people love to pretend that they would be fine with that.
And I like whenever someone gets like and public shaming
is one thing, because oftentimes that's actually correlated with someone
doing something reprehensible, right like saying something racist forever and
then they get public shame. And I think that's in
(15:46):
certain terms kind of healthy. You go like, there's the
consequence for from it. But then there are cases like
when like Friday came out like the Rebecca Black song,
and she immediately got death threats and I was like, yeah,
well that's so crazy at like the dislikes on that video.
It's like she was a teenager. I know, I know,
and Rebecca is a friend of mine, and it's it's
(16:07):
you know, she's when I first met her. I tried
to just sort of leave her alone about it because
I'm the same age as her. So when I was thirteen,
she was thirteen in that video came out, and I
remember like when I was like nineteen I got to
know her. I was like after a couple of days
of now where I was like, I have to ask
you some questions about how you dealt into it, because
I was so I was so impressed. I think mainly
it's like when you because I didn't ever have to
(16:29):
nobody knew who I was at thirteen, When you're exposed
to at such a young age, well then that's like
when stuff is actually scary, like you read like death
threats online and it's actually, you know, really concerning at
that age because you don't know what to take seriously
and what someone is just saying. But I think the
kids that are have handled it in the most impressive fashion.
I mean, now it's Greta Thunberg, but for the last
(16:50):
two years it was it was the Parkland students, the
Stonman Douglas High School students. Their response to everything and
the amount of hatred came their way for you know,
surviving a school shooting and the way they handled it
and so wild. Kredith Thunberg, she's just amazing. And it
blows my mind that all of these like grown ups
(17:10):
are making like fun of and just being so rude
to what she's sixteen. I think they're really like furthering
her point. I think they're they're making her seem even
even more powerful and and I think, like you know,
in certain ways, like yeah, just just even stronger. And
(17:34):
even more important in her cause and in her stance,
and so yeah, I I think it's hilarious if you
if you were a person that would if you were
a climate change denierr or you know whatever, and you
spoke out against it's like you're you're valorizing their whole
opinion exactly. Just crazy. Well, I'm gonna talk to your EPA.
(17:54):
I just want to say I lost a friend. When
I heard that. I was like, WHOA, Really, I went
through a very sim my situation just slowly disintegrated. What
how did you heal from that? Because it's really hard,
It's so hard. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you went
through the same thing that I went through. And I
feel like the thing that the song has taught me
(18:16):
more than any other thing is just that so many
people have because I guess I and part of the
reason I wanted to write that song was was that
I didn't you know when you like when you go
through an emotional experience in your life and you know
what song to put on to me, Like I don't know,
like I went through some breakup and like like when
I was much younger, and I was like, I know
(18:36):
that I want to listen to this song the Best
of You by Food Fighters. I was like, I just
know that that's how I'm feeling right now, and I guess,
to me, the feeling of like a close personal friendship
falling apart. I didn't have like a soundtrack to that,
and so I just perfect song. I was like, I
have to write it. But it's been it's been sobering
and also sort of comforting that so many people go
(18:58):
through that with their friends and have friendships that all apart.
And I think the funny thing about a friendship falling
apart is oftentimes if it's your best friend, they've been
with you through all the other relationship. Well, but it's
like when you have the best friend there, they were
there with you through the breakup and everything, you know.
So anyway, writing that song, I mean that was helpful
(19:18):
in the healing process of going through that. And I mean,
in my specific instance, I was able to reconnect with
with my friend and we're you know, we're close again.
But I've I've also had friendships in my life fall
apart and have not been able to, you know, reconcile
them for whatever reason. And that's really tough because you
don't get a sense of closure. So that's really tough.
(19:39):
But you know, my hope is that you know, people
understand that, like they're they're usually not to blame or blameless. Really,
it's kind of everything happens for a reason. I truly
believe that. Interesting, do you believe that? Really? Yeah? No,
I don't. There's too much super sad, that's true. I'm
in my bubble though right now, right yeah. I think
(20:00):
on a kind of a personal like whatever like destiny
means to a person, you can kind of let that
and you go like wow, if I'm not talking about
the wider world, okay, well then yeah, I understand that.
If you're in your personal life, you go like, wow,
if I hadn't made that one mistake, I wouldn't have
ended up here. And this is the greatest you know
what I mean. It's like one of those funny things.
If that thing that I wanted more than anything had
(20:21):
worked out, I wouldn't have gotten anything. It was even better.
But then there's like you just get to a place
where you're like, oh, there's like that kid was born
with brain cancer, and you're just like everything happens for reasons. Yeah,
that's the stuff that just doesn't make sense in the world. Yeah,
I think on a personal level, I think that's a
comforting thing to think in your life. So in the future,
(20:41):
when you probably win many Grammys, many more albums, how
do you want to be remembered as an artist? That's
so interesting? Wow, that's so cool. I mean, I guess
I would compare, you know, any music that I'm making
to the importance of the music that I loved when
I was younger. Um, and I guess to the importance
(21:03):
of music that I love now. But I feel like, really,
when you're like ten to twenty is like when you're
just when you're deciding your your real taste in in
art and in sort of what you're consuming, and you
you form real opinions and you and you really feel
heard and seen and your your I mean, ten to
twenty is like all your first you're going through like
every like real emotion and emotional experience for the first time,
(21:25):
and a lot of that music carries you through those
I think to me, like anytime anyone tells me that
they've had experience with my music that I can then
relate to like an experience I had with music growing
up or a live show. That's that's plenty for me.
So I guess, you know, just just little things like
that are kind of more meaningful and make me feel
(21:48):
the most joy is hearing you know how how music
resonates with people. You know, music is insane, which is
what it does and how it affects people. I think
it's so beautiful. It's one of the few art forms
that fits into like every other art form, right, It's like, yeah,
there's you know, it's it's so sort of universal, which
is really exciting. Well, just congratulations on the best, and
(22:12):
thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Thanks
for taking time to sit with me. I really appreciate it. Awesome.
Thank you for Phineas. Everybody. Make sure you check out
phineas his epeople at Harmony and follow Phineas on all
of his socials and also follow me on Instagram It's
at It's Sammy J I T S S A M
(22:35):
M Y J A Y, and I also highly recommend
you following our podcast account It's Sammy J Dot. Let's
be real. Oh see you guys for the next episode. Bye.
Host
Sammy Jaye
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