February 4, 2020 • 40 mins
Kesha stops by the historic Village Studios to chat with Sammy Jaye about drowning out her haters, her brand new album High Road, and just-launched makeup line Kesha Rose Beauty. Kesha reveals the relentless drive to create that pushes her to work, how she has overcome so much, and how music led her through it all.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, guys, It's Sammy J. And for this episode, we
talked to Kesha. I was really excited for this interview,
but I also didn't know what to expect going into it.
At the end, I realized that we are soul sisters.
We talked about so much. We talked about her philosophy
and life, positivity, going through hard times, her new album
(00:22):
High Road, her makeup Blank keshro Is Beauty, and much more.
It's a really interesting conversation and I hope you enjoyed.
You guys. Kesh is on this week's episode of my podcast.
I am so excited you are here. I'm so excited
to be talking to you. I'm so impressed. You know,
I've admired you for so long, not just because you're
songwriting skills, but just because if you're honesty and you're
(00:43):
just so candid about everything, and it's very refreshing. Thanks.
I I think that the culture right now is so
I was just thinking about this when I was home.
I was like going in my head in circles about it.
I want to be as open as possible, but then
I'm so scared I'm gonna say one stupid thing and
the whole world canceled or whatever. The cancel culture that's
(01:04):
such a thing now, so I want to be as
open as possible. But it's kind of also terrifying. It's
terrified because you say one stupid thing, which I do
all the time. Everybody says stupids just being human exactly,
but then you get canceled. I just started canceling. I
think they should cancel a canceled culture. I agree with that. Well,
(01:24):
I want to talk to you about a lot of
things today. I want to start just with your new album,
high Road. I'm so excited. How long did it take
you to make this album? Um? Some of the songs
I've been working on since before Rainbow came out, there
actually songs I wanted to put on Rainbow, but I
didn't have really the space, and I wanted to save
them for a lighter time. Like I really wanted Rainbow
(01:48):
to be a specific thing. I had a really specific
idea for what I wanted Rainbow to be. So there
were some songs that I just kind of felt it
wasn't the right time and place, So I kept in
my back. Because I'm a songwriter, I've written so many songs,
so I was like, I'm going to save this for
after this album. And so this record, you know, four
(02:10):
years some of the songs and then some of them
I'm still finishing. Really, So how fast is a turnaround
for a song? Would you say, Oh, it can be
anywhere from like a song on my first record, I
think I had written on and off for like six years,
So it could be anywhere from six years to one day.
Would you say your perfectionist with Seth, I'm like O. C. D.
(02:32):
When it comes to arn't really. Yeah. So the this
record coming out High Road and Rainbow, I got to
executive produce, so I got to pick every song. I
got to write every song, I got to pick every
drum sound, I got to pick every good guitar tone,
and I just I also don't really care as much
if people like it or dislike it, because I'm proud
(02:53):
of it. Yeah. Is that how you define success? Yeah?
For me, I think it's been a learning process of
how to define success, And for me, it's if I
feel like I was as honest as I could be
and as connected to the truth as I can be,
and if that's happening. And also with my new record,
I really want to make my fans happy because they've
(03:15):
been through it with me. We've gone on a long tumu,
very tumultuous road. That's looks great about your music. It's
a journey. It's not just like album just for music.
It's like you can see your progression as an artist,
which is the coolest thing. Thank you. And like, I
don't even you're probably if you're seventeen. You were seven
when TikTok came out. That sounds about right. So it's
(03:37):
like just crazy to me that like you would even
know the progression of me as an artist because you're
so young. But that's so impressive that you've probably heard
Animal I hope. But even if you haven't, if high
Road is the first record you hear from me, hopefully
you'll get the broad scope of who I am as
a human and artist. So after people listen to High Road,
what do you want them to take away from it?
(04:00):
I think that the number one thing is you can
go through things in life that are difficult and come
out on the other side and reclaim your happiness and
find your joy and I feel like yourself and it
might be something you'll never truly get over, but that's okay,
and you can grow from the pain and make art
(04:20):
out of it, and I think it's so difficult to do.
Though it is difficult, but it also heartbreak creates great
art in my opinion, So even if it's any kind
of heartbreak, you know, yeah, I mean I think you
know it's your album's called high Road. Is that why
you chose to name it that? It's actually a little
play on words. So after I put out Praying for
(04:43):
my last record, I thought people would really expect me
to be taking the high road on like in all
case scenarios. But sorry, dad, But the song high Road
itself is actually about there are all these things on
social media that used to just get to me and
like be so grating and would really affect me. And
(05:03):
now it's legal here, but now I just get stoned
and laugh about it, and I really try not to
let it affect me, which is more difficult than just
saying that. But like, that's what the song is about,
is just being like, I'm just gonna get high and
laugh at this because it's so petty. Well, for those
who don't know, we are actually recording this episode where
you recorded Praying Yes in the studio. In the studio,
(05:26):
this is so this studio must mean just a lot
to you. Yeah, I've recorded. I recorded with Alice Cooper
in the studio. I recorded praying in the studio. We've
recorded a lot of stuff in the studio. The engineer
who's here with us today is like he's recorded a
lot of the songs that he could probably remember more
than that that we recorded here. But we've recorded tons
of stuff in here. Wow. I think this album of
(05:49):
yours I personally love because I think it's very eclectic
and there are so many different styles in one song,
you know, So what is the process for you for
just eating a song? For this record, it was different
than ever before because, like for Rainbow, I had a
lot of emotional baggage to sort through, and on this record,
(06:12):
I really wanted to allow myself to move forward in
my life. Like I said, never get over something, but
allow myself to move forward in trying to find and
reclaim my voice and my joy and my happiness and
all of those things. And I just realized I really
didn't want to have any expectations for myself. I didn't
(06:33):
want to have to adhere to any boundaries or genres,
and I just wanted to, like purely funk around and
see what happened. And good. That's because I'll be listening
to Run the Jewels, and then I'll be listening to Queen,
and then I'll be listening to Cardi B. So it's
like all different kinds of influences that make me happy.
But I just wanted to make my fans really really happy.
(06:55):
And you put that in all just one album, because
I mean, why not. It's also it's my personality, so
why not put it all on one true Do you
have a favorite song off the album? I think today
my favorite song off the album is Resentment. But I'm
just like so excited. It's a beautiful song. And you
have a lot of collaborations on this album. Brian Wilson
(07:16):
just a classic, well just iconic legend god himself. Yeah,
I'm obsessed with pet Sounds and I think that he's
one of the most brilliant minds music has ever seen.
So for him to even like know that I exist
on the planet Earth is insane. And let alone do
a song because for me, like recording with an artist
(07:39):
or working with an artist, or collaborating and just taking
the time to spend time with each other on a
piece of art together. That's the highest form of respect
in my book. Yeah, and just like have him have
anything to do with me on any levels just insanity.
And also Stirgill Simpson is like a dream come true.
(07:59):
And then a really close friend of mine and collaborator,
an amazing songwriter, Ray Ball, is on there. So it's
just like this dream team of some of my favorite
human beings on the earth, even people that you've looked
up to for years since I was like a child,
So how long have you been writing music? Like, were
you like writing poetry as a kid and you didn't
(08:20):
even know what re turnto music? Or was it a
later on things as you were a teenager. So my
mom's a songwriter and she wrote songs for Dolly Parton
and Johnny Cash. So I grew up always being around
studios and always being around songs. I would grow up
like being in the the sound booth while she was
observing it all. Yeah, and I always loved it. And
I would walk around singing and everyone would be like,
(08:41):
tell the kid to shut up. I were studying it
and you didn't even know it. And so then when
I went to like middle school, high school was total hell.
Like we're talking about earlier, school sucks and at least
from a social aspect, and really it's high school can
be hard, it can be really really hard it and
(09:01):
I didn't have the greatest time. I grew up in
the Bible Belt. There was a lot of closed mindedness, homophobia, racism,
a lot of that happening, and I just felt like,
like totally to get away from comfortable. I felt really
uncomfortable and very isolated and like total outcast and misfit
of school. And I just got like so made fun
(09:25):
of and never had a group of friends till I
moved to Los Angeles and I found people that kind
of understood me. But that's when I started writing songs.
Is when I just started having this outsider feeling. I
just always felt like I was outside of everything, especially
at school. I can relate to that. It's a hard feeling.
(09:45):
It sucks, it really sucks, but if you can use
it and channel it and help create your dreams by
just being like, Okay, I'm not going to focus on
the pettiness that's happening at school. I'm an focus on
where I want to go and what i want to be,
and I'm going to let this help drive me. That's
how I took it, and it seems like you're doing
(10:06):
the same thing I'm trying. It's hard, though. What would
you say to your younger self, you're seventeen year old self,
I would say, don't be so hard on yourself and
it's all going to be okay. Man, it's like you're
talking to me. I can feel that we are kindred spirits.
I agree, and I just like know how that feels
(10:31):
to be in school and not feel like you're being
seen or understood or belonging. And it's just like a
really it makes you feel bad about yourself. It's so
very demoralizing and I and I hate that for anybody
who's going through it. But I will say, you can
get out of town and create a whole life that
(10:52):
is perfectly for you, and it does get better. I
know it sounds so cheesy, but like once you follow
your dreams, it gets better and more comfortable. It's hard
to remember in the moment. Have you ever seen the
musical Deer of Van Hanson? I have not. Okay, if
you like, you know, I will write it down. I
will take now, just listen to the like the album
(11:14):
you can listen to it, you will like connect with
it because we we like you were on the same
level here, like listen to that, like you we're blown away.
I won't. I won't. It's gonna be great, is it?
What's it about? It's about UM, a high school kid
with anxiety and he goes into the new school. We are.
It's a very dark subject. It deals with like suicide
(11:35):
and love and all this and that. But it's about I,
at least I took away from because it is a
very depressing musical. Just coming out on the other side
of it and inspiring. And I think you know, through
your music you really channel just the positivity. And I'm
actually really interested with your philosophy and positivity because it's
hard to UM, it's hard to forgive and it's hard
(11:59):
to move on, especially with the positive mindset. How do
you do that? UM? I can't say that I'm perfect
at it, Like you know, when I'm talking with people,
I feel like I want to be this perfect role model, right,
But I struggle with forgiveness. It's hard sometimes because you
can forgive, but you don't forget what people do to
(12:20):
you or what they say to you. So it can
be really difficult to rebuild trust. That's what my song
Resentment is about, is you get resentments towards people and
unless you address them, they can really destroy relationships. And
I just try to always remember that I'm really really
lucky to get to do my dream as a job,
and it's not just my job, it's my life. And
(12:41):
I get to do things like this and meet other
really talented, amazing people and talk about art as my
life and it's so cool. But like, this is your
job when you would be doing it even if it
wasn't be doing it if I was not getting paid
at time, exactly. But that's when you know when you
love something, Yeah, it's your dream. And when it comes
(13:02):
to fruition, I just try to live in the gratitude.
And then I also, just when I was going through
a really dark time a couple of years ago, there
were a lot of people total strangers that were really
really kind to me that I had never met before
and had no reason to be nice to me. And
I just remember feeling so overwhelmed that I could just
(13:22):
still cry about it every time I think about it.
I just I'm like, these people had no reason to
be nice to me or there for me or supportive,
and they were, and I just want to be that
way towards other people. Yeah, kind of does so much,
like just the simplest thing because you don't know what
everyone's going through. You have no idea what anyone is
going through. Yeah, like even someone that flips you off
in the car when you're driving, Like, of course I
(13:44):
get that initial reaction to be like fuck you, yeah
like that, but then I'm like, Okay, you don't know
what they're going through. Just take a deep breath, turn
on some CARDI B. Everything's gonna be okay. You know,
there's actually a quote that I saw that I wanted
to tell you. I don't I don't know who it's by,
so if anyone knows, let me know. But it's anger
is a punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
(14:07):
And I never heard that. I was like, huh, it's
so true, right, Like it's a punishment we give ourselves.
It's like that feeling when for someone else's action and
take it personally. Yeah, that's the thing. If you've ever
read The Four Agreements, and if not, it's a short,
awesome book and one of the four Agreements of life
is trying not to take things personally. So when people
(14:28):
rude or mean or just like girls or bitches at school,
or you know, people have been caddy in the business
simon and I just try not to take it personally
because everyone has their own insecurities and it's usually not
coming from it's like projection. I've done a lot of
therapy around this stuff, but especially if I've ever been
(14:48):
jealous of someone in the past, I now realize that
it's just my own insecurities. So I try to go
into all things in my career and just be like
hopeful and positive for every else. Because people were kind
to me when I needed it, so I just want
to be kind to people. I mean, I think that
definitely shows good hope. So because I feel changed by
(15:11):
the kindness I received, I felt like like taken aback
and realized the power it can have. Would you say
that others people kindness inspired you in your music? Yeah,
and inspired me to be a better person and not
feel especially in industries women are so much pitted against
(15:33):
each other, but also to support each other because there's
enough room for everybody. Exactly. It took the words in
my mouth and in entertainment but kind of it all
starts in like high school, and then in movies women
are fighting over a guy, and I just think it's
kind of set up. It's setting us up all wrong,
Like we should band together. There's room for everyone, and
(15:56):
it's not a competition. Life's not a competition. Like, I
just really want to be super supportive, especially of women
in this business, because that's what I received, and it
was shocking how like impactful that was, and it changed
my life. Okay, here's a question. Do you think you'd
ever write a musical? Hell, yeah, I actually thought about it.
(16:18):
You should do it on this topic. I was thinking
about that and just like the evolution of mankind and
where society is going and how kind of fucked. But yeah,
I'm like trying to stay hopeful. Yeah, like that's all
you can do at this point. It's all that you
can do, just especially with social issues. That's my main
(16:41):
you know, place of concern is just where we have
made progress. I just don't want to go backwards. And
I just see we're already starting. I've already yea And
you see it and you feel it and you want
to fight against it. And I feel as if there's
just racism raging and home of obia raging and anti semitic,
(17:03):
like it's everywhere, just anybody you want to fill in
the blank. So I think it's just important to just
try to spread love as much as you can, positivity
and good good vibes, because that's all you can do
at this point. You know, vote, vote, I'm actually going
(17:23):
to be voting in this the first first time. So important.
I'm so excited, just like I've been, Like, I'm taking
you as government class and a US history, so I'm
like extra educating myself, watch the news every so like
trying to like stay intact with it smart because you
learn what not to do from not repeating habits that
we have maybe done in the past and made mistakes
(17:45):
within no history, to not repeat history. Yeah, I kind
of did the same thing in high school. I studied
a lot of um. I studied could where history for fun.
I was studying religious history. I was obsessed. So was
history your favorite subject when you in scool? Did you
like anything? I liked it all, honestly, I really like
That's like me. I love learning, but I hate the
(18:08):
other aspect of it. I hated like the rest all
of it, but I liked learning information because I feel
like information does help you create a more educated decision
about who to be and how to act. And I'm
sure that affects your songwriting too. The more you know
on the topic, it can affect how the song sounds well,
especially just also knowing that when I first started out,
(18:31):
this was again ten years ago. I just want to
make people dance and shake their ass and I still,
I mean, that's still a goal of mine. I still
want to make people a dance and have the best
night of their life when they come to a show
like that. But I just the more I've learned about
social progress and also going backwards, the more I want
to put messages and meaning and depth into not only
(18:54):
my music, but also give back in any way I can.
So all of a sudden, it's not just like this
total nurse assist being a famous person thing. It's also
utilizing your life platform and all of that. Well, I
think we have to talk about TikTok. I feel like
it would just be a shame, It would be it
would just be a shame if we didn't. How did
do you How did that song come about? And do
(19:15):
you realize it would be such a hit that it began. No,
you never know what's going to be a hit and
what's not. You really don't. You just write songs. Pray
for the best and that song actually, I remember writing
the lyrics and I was like, this is like it
was a joke. I was joking. I was like taking
the piss out of like life, and I wrote all
(19:38):
these different lyrics that were a lot deeper and more complicated,
and then I just wrote TikTok versus as literally a joke.
And then I remember somebody I was working with was
just like, just for fun, make it as dumb as
humanly possible the money, yeah, And I was like pedicures
on my test test and they're like, that's great it
(20:00):
and I was like, but it's so dumb, Like it's good.
But I think it also set my career up in
a way where people didn't know if I wasn't on
the joke or not. So I've spent if you were,
if that's how you actually worked an artist, or if
that was just you messing your head. Yeah, And I
don't know if you listened to the Best Boys, but
especially their first record, like it was them having fun
(20:21):
and just kind of being idiots and being happy and
fun and joking about ship and just like being nihilist
young people. And that was kind of where my head
was at then. But then I also think that I
had to spend a solid like five years trying to
prove to people that I had a brain? Was that?
(20:41):
Do you think that made it harder for you to
prove yourself in the industry because you know that was
your breakout song, but it wasn't everything you could accomplish
as an artist, right, And it did. And I feel
like I've had to just proved myself over and over
and over, and I finally feel like with this record,
I only feel like I've been seen and heard for
(21:02):
all sides of my personality, because I do have a
side that's just kind of a jackass, but then I
have a really emotional side that's every person. And that's
what I think. I felt like I finally got to
showcase on my last record, and so on this new record,
I have both sides. It's like a mix of it
all and like all sides of my voice, all sides
of my personality, and I hope people can have so
(21:24):
much fun with it. But also there are songs where
I'm like wailing and singing and that are really depressing.
So it just depends on the day and how I'm
feeling that day. But you can also be all those things.
The song Father Daughter Dance, it is so beautiful. Thank you.
(21:46):
Is it hard to be that vulnerable on your records,
because I know you did that with Praying and Rainbow
and that whole album, um, but it's still hard to
put out things so just authentic to your life. Well,
that one was particular, literally hard. I was actually in
the studio. Yeah, we're in this room, and I was
working with him and my friend Drew, who I did
(22:07):
a good portion of Rainbow with two he's a producer.
And I never really thought I had that much emotion
behind not growing up with a father figure, and and
then it just kind of started happening, like it really
was my stream of consciousness. But I wasn't even conscious
(22:28):
of it. It was you didn't realize how much he
needed to put it out there. And I was very,
very uncomfortable. It was very how can you not be though?
It was so uncomfortable, especially especially if you didn't like
mentally prepare for something like that. Oh, I like really
was fighting it and then I was with the two
guys that both have children with have daughters, and they
(22:49):
were like, no, this is important to keep going, and
I was like, I just feel really uncomfortable. But usually
the songs that are the most uncomfortable and you just
like really don't how artists, those are the hardest. But
usually those are the ones that people in my past
experience have responded to and been like, Okay, I really
relate to that on like a deep level. So the
(23:11):
uncomfortable and like painful and the tea sometimes good to
put yourself, you know, in uncomfortable situations, like wow, I
feel like I'm slightly addicted to putting myself an uncomfortable situation.
I'm like forcing myself to sometimes because like and it's
just like getting myself like Okay, Smith, you can do this.
You can do it. And it's also like the adrenaline,
(23:32):
and adrenaline helps so much. It does well when you
play live TV shows. Every time. I cannot imagine the
adrenaline that comes from that. I get so scared and
I've been doing this for ten years. Do you still
get stage fright? Um? I get like massively terrified to
the point of like for sure, crying before I take
(23:53):
the stage. Ever, if it's a live TV performance, when
I'm just playing shows, they're not televised, and I know
it's just my fan and we're just write or die,
and it's so fun and infectious. I don't get nervous.
I get excited, like I'm going to a house party.
So what is it about the live TV is because
like so many people you know that don't necessarily know
you are watching, or don't necessarily like me, or would
(24:14):
like to find something to pick apart, or would like
to find the one note that I miss because I
don't lip sync, and things like that where I just
don't want to be fucked if I can't hear myself
and I hit one bad note, or if I'm dancing
and I'm out of breath and it's just it's live, well,
that's you know, it's life not That's what I think
is so incredible about live performances is because it's not
(24:36):
exactly how it is and you can see that everyone's
just human, and I think people forget that. Well, it's
also like you don't know if people want that because
it's We're also used to the face tune and the
auto tune and all of these things that are supposed
to make us all quote unquote perfect. I don't believe
in that can like that concept. I don't believe in
(24:58):
perfection as an even the thing. I don't think it exists.
But I don't think. But like we're all because what
is perfect? It sounds really boring to me, but like,
I just don't. I also think it's different for every person,
and we're all fed that perfection is something that is
almost unachievable and something that we're not. So it feeds
(25:19):
this insecurity, especially in women, and I am just calling
it bullshit. I'm thirty two years old over it, and
I don't want to be perfect. I'm not ever going
to be, so no one is in the fact that
you're showing that will help others to realize that, oh,
like being not perfect is cool and everything and everyone
(25:41):
is perfect if you stop comparing. True. Something I wrote
on my ceiling when I was in high school and
it's still there at my mom's house. How do you
write what your ceiling? I stood on my beds put
posters up there and right on the ceiling. Nice, that's impressive,
But you know there's a song there just from like
(26:03):
your past music that I love, Good Old Days that
you did with Mac That is such a beautiful song.
And I think the lyrics and rainbow just about the rainbow. Yeah,
and just like the colors, Like colors are great, colors
are great. I just put out makeup and it's really
I want to talk to you about that. Yeah, I'll
(26:23):
send you a box of it if you want. It's
very bright and yes, please, okay, cool, I'll send you
a box. But I'm so excited about it because it's
so bright and colorful, beauty, And I just wanted to
make something that would make people happy, and I think
colors make people happy. There's something about it. I don't
(26:44):
know what it is. What do you think your favorite colors?
Like if you had to only wear one color for
the rest of your life, I don't know if I
could do that, Like if you had to, if I
had to, is rainbow a color? I'm not, no, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna make it hard for you. It would be
either a baby pink or turquoise, oh, or a puke
(27:05):
green like a shart truth, So I can't pick. Yeah,
but light pink is so pretty. All those I've had
my hair all those colors, so I was thinking about
all my favorite hair colors. I love your hair color.
Is talking about this earlier. I think it's so cool.
Thank you. I'm still kind of getting used to it. Yeah,
I feel like when I look at myself in the mirror,
I kind of feel like an alien. Yeah, when you're
(27:27):
used to seeing yourself fun way, But then I also
like challenging it, Like I used to not wear a
lot of color, and now I want to because it's
almost just reconnecting with my child self, child self and
my child heart is. I love color and I love glitter,
and I don't care what I love glitter. I think
it's like an innate animal instinct almost to like sparkly things.
(27:52):
I know that I literally have unicorn socks and unicorn necklace.
I love color and everything well, I love also unicorns,
so incredible. I want to talk to you about Kesher's beauty.
The colors in your palette are just it makes me
happy looking at it good. That was my goal packing
and the color is just the whole thing to feel
(28:13):
like magical. So do you when you're creating a makeup line,
how do you decide what you want it? To look like,
because it looks very cohesive but also very um different.
I wanted it to be unique. I wanted it to
be something that if you had it out on your
counter or in your purse, that if you pulled it out,
people would be like, what is that? That's really cool?
(28:34):
Especially the I palette. I wanted it's foil and velvet
and stars and there's a tassel, and there's all these
colors and summer day and summer night and summer whatever
you want. And I just wanted to give people something
really special because it's something that is it easy to apply,
because it's hot, it's This is why it took me
(28:56):
over a year to make this is because I love
all the colors. So I was like, I want cold free, right,
So it's cruelty free, not tested on animals, not made
of any animals, super pigmented, which is hard to achieve
when it's cruelty free and just has absolutely no harm
done to any animals. Like working on a red that
(29:16):
was really difficult. I can't imagine how hard it is
to develop red. It's hard because it's usually made out
of like smushed up beetles. That's usually what red is
from you learned something every day. No smushed animals in
my makeup, so yeah, and if you add water to
the eyeshadows then they get even more pigmented, so you
(29:39):
can just like play with it and it's for playing,
it's for feeling. Oh, I want to try this, like
happy and excited about life, and I like to do
one eye one color sometimes and one eye the other color,
and I'd just go full like yeah, why not exactly.
I've just like, like I was telling you before, I've
I'm not really into like beauty standards of what I'm
(30:00):
supposed to be. I would like to just do what
makes me happy, and I think especially with my makeup,
I would like for everybody else to do that, just
do what makes me happy. Well, I feel like you
just to sidetrack for a second. I feel like you
have so many great memories and experiences just because you
want to test things and try new things. What do
you think the most memorable and or rebellious thing you
(30:24):
did when you're a teen? Well, so my mom wasn't. Honestly,
I think it was. She wrote country music. So I
was like, what is the polar opposite kind of music
I could make? And it was like dancy, like it
was emotional, but it was also like I don't call
(30:44):
it rapping, I call it ship talking because I myself
a rapper. But I was like, what would be like
the polar opposite of what kind of music my mom writes?
And so I kind of just went like full dance
and was talking shit and like just went in a
totally different direction. That's kind of how I found my
sound initially was by accident. It was just me trying
(31:05):
to rebel against what my mom would have wanted me
to do. Yeah, and it's funny because now I've come
full circle and just but as a song with Sturgill
Simpson and love country music. So hey, everything happens for
a reason in that way, I think I like to
believe it does, because if you don't believe that, and
there are some days I don't, But I think it
(31:26):
depends on the situation. Like I feel like, if the
star is aligne, you know, then why not think it
happens for a reason. It's kind of you can make
that choice or not. And it feels nice to think
something's watching out over you and everything's happening for a
reason and there is karma all of those very hippie
things I do. I do believe in because it makes
(31:47):
me feel comforted. Yeah, And I mean I also know
that it might not be real, but I like to
believe it. I think I think it was you on
the Zach Saying Show when I heard you say that
you believe that, Well, you're talking about raising hell and
you're talking about that you believe you can make heaven
on earth. Can you talk more about that? Sure? I
(32:09):
think that like our experience, how we behave to ourselves
to other people, being honest, chasing our dreams, believing in ourselves,
all of those things can contribute to leading a more
positive or quote unquote heavenly experience. And I'm not so
worried about being judged at the gates of heaven or hell.
(32:30):
I'm more concerned with leading a really honest life and
standing for something and being remembered for standing for something
and being a good person and being on the right
side of history. And I feel like that to me
is living in your heaven, and living in your hell
would be not following your heart and not following your truth.
(32:55):
I love that is that how you want to be remembered,
And like, that's what is that what you want your
legacy to be weird. You're asking me that because I
was up all night last night, I couldn't sleep because
of the full moon, and I wrote a song called legacy.
That's really bizarre. You asked me that that's so weird.
But I was talking about how I don't really know
(33:15):
what I want to be on my tombstone. I think
it should just say like party on but of us, Yes,
because I also just think we're here for a short time.
I think we're we all should try to have the
best time we possibly can. And there's a little bit
(33:35):
of nihilism in that, which is you know it is
what it is. You know you never know how long
you're going to be here for, so live it to
the fullest. And a lot of my songs are about that.
I know. I think it's I just think it's so
incredible and it makes me smile that you did a
song with kes with Kesha with the dollar sign. Can
(33:55):
you hear it? I love it. It's like, what made you?
How do you come up with that idea to do
a collaboration with your former your former self, your former reputation. Well,
I think it's just like me being self aware that
at that time when I had the dollar sign and
(34:16):
my name and people just have no idea what to
do with me, and like really really had no idea,
and so I wanted to be my current self, but
featuring that part of me. And so what made you
change from the dollar sign to the just a regular sum?
Was there a mementire like today's the day I had
(34:36):
like just a year of change and going through some
really heavy stuff, and it was a lot thrown at
me right in one year, and it just made me
want to I wanted to respect myself as an artist
more because I felt like I wasn't being seen for
who I really am, and I think to be seen
(35:00):
for who you really are, you have to present who
you actually are. And a huge part of that was
being more vulnerable and not always just being so self
deprecating and taking the piss Like my Twitter handle used
to be Cashia sucks because I thought I'll just beat
people to the punchline. So but then I just I
wanted to just feel like I was being nicer to
(35:21):
myself and it's hard to do that. It was thought
literally the hardest thing in the entire world. That's my
biggest challenge. What do you say to someone who's like
going through that needs to overcome to self love? Self
love is such a hard thing because it's so easy
to talk about, is really really hard to practice. I
think giving myself a break is really really hard. And
(35:43):
I mean, you seem like you're a very ambitious person yourself.
It's really hard to be really ambitious and want to
conquer the world in whatever field you're going for and
then also take it easy on yourself. I don't know
if you I'm very I'm very critical of myself. Me too,
and I think that's part of what makes my work ethic.
(36:06):
I love to work and I love to be so
involved in everything because it's so cool creating something. It's
the best, the best feeling. Oh my god, I love it.
This is the first thing I've ever created. And the
fact that it's like, you know, I was working on
it in my room and now it's like I'm talking
to you, like man, like amazing. You should as you
(36:28):
totally should. And I used to just feel like, oh,
I'm such a douche bag. If I ever say anything
nice about myself, it's hard for me to do it.
Like I'm trying to make more of an effort to
just be like I want me too. Every day, every
day something I work on because I just never want
to come off like I'm full of myself, are conceited,
or you're bragging. You know, you just want to share
(36:49):
your experience. I got you. But I also feel like, wow,
I work, I work a lot to do this thing,
and I should be able to say a nice thing
about it without feeling like a douche bag. That's really
hard for me. It's really hard to relax sometimes, like
just especially just to take a breath, like live in
the moment. It's one of the hardest things stay. But
(37:10):
when you're in the moment, it's the best feeling. Well,
like here, I might here with you. You know, we're
like creating something that is part of your destiny and mine.
So I feel really good about this time. But then
if I were to go home and just like lay
on the couch, I would be there for about two
minutes and then I would feel really guilty and go
upstairs and start like playing the piano. That's so interesting. Yeah,
(37:34):
I don't know if that's like the healthiest thing in
the world, but I find it so interesting just I'm
obsessed with it creating. Yeah, it makes me feel like
peaceful when I can create, it makes me feel useful
and peaceful. And I don't know if it's like the
healthiest thing, but for me in my life, I found
it to be the most therapeutic thing when I create.
What is your biggest goal as an artist? Is it
(37:55):
to win Grammys? Is it to make a certain amount
of albums? You know? What use to be things like
of course, who doesn't want to grant me? You know?
If you make music, of course that's like a dream.
But I've tried to make it more um less dependent
on external validation. So something like that you really have
(38:19):
no control over. So I don't want to put my
happiness in the hands of something I have zero control over.
I'd rather make control of situation. Yeah, and just feel
successful in creating a song like praying. That song is
like a journey, and like a song, I feel you
every time I sing it, I feel like you go
through a story. I go through it every every single
(38:41):
time I sing that song. But I've had so many
people that have gone through very very different things that
I've gone through and have just said they related to
that song and that to me is the best feeling
in the world. Knowing that you've connected with someone and
I can't helped them in a way, I feel not alone.
That to me is success. I hope that's what this does.
(39:03):
And I'm just so happy and grateful that you know,
you're on this week's episode, and it just means the
world to me. Thank you, And I'm so excited for you.
And I'm like, you're seventeen, and that's so impressive that
you're so you're just so in charge of your life
and you're doing what you want to do, and I
just think that's badass. It's really hard to just go
(39:25):
after what you want and have the confidence to do
it and really just do it, and you're doing it,
and it's amazing and really inspiring. Well, thank you so much.
Oh my god, Well, thank you so much for being
on this week's episode. Make sure you go listen to
Kesha's new album High Road Amazing. Hope you guys like it. Bye,
I'm so excited for you. I hope you guys enjoyed
(39:48):
this episode with Kesha. I had such an incredible time
just getting to know her. Make sure you go listen
to her new album High Road and follow her on
her socials. Her instagram is I is who I Is.
Make sure you follow my instagram which is It's Sammy
j I T S S A M M Y j
A y E. And also follow my podcast instagram, which
(40:10):
is crazy to say, it's Sammy j Dot. Let's be
real and you're gonna want to follow that because there
are some pretty exciting giveaways coming and a lot of
fun stuff. Um. I hope you guys enjoyed this week's
episode by
Hi, guys, It's Sammy J. And for this episode, we
talked to Kesha. I was really excited for this interview,
but I also didn't know what to expect going into it.
At the end, I realized that we are soul sisters.
We talked about so much. We talked about her philosophy
and life, positivity, going through hard times, her new album
(00:22):
High Road, her makeup Blank keshro Is Beauty, and much more.
It's a really interesting conversation and I hope you enjoyed.
You guys. Kesh is on this week's episode of my podcast.
I am so excited you are here. I'm so excited
to be talking to you. I'm so impressed. You know,
I've admired you for so long, not just because you're
songwriting skills, but just because if you're honesty and you're
(00:43):
just so candid about everything, and it's very refreshing. Thanks.
I I think that the culture right now is so
I was just thinking about this when I was home.
I was like going in my head in circles about it.
I want to be as open as possible, but then
I'm so scared I'm gonna say one stupid thing and
the whole world canceled or whatever. The cancel culture that's
(01:04):
such a thing now, so I want to be as
open as possible. But it's kind of also terrifying. It's
terrified because you say one stupid thing, which I do
all the time. Everybody says stupids just being human exactly,
but then you get canceled. I just started canceling. I
think they should cancel a canceled culture. I agree with that. Well,
(01:24):
I want to talk to you about a lot of
things today. I want to start just with your new album,
high Road. I'm so excited. How long did it take
you to make this album? Um? Some of the songs
I've been working on since before Rainbow came out, there
actually songs I wanted to put on Rainbow, but I
didn't have really the space, and I wanted to save
them for a lighter time. Like I really wanted Rainbow
(01:48):
to be a specific thing. I had a really specific
idea for what I wanted Rainbow to be. So there
were some songs that I just kind of felt it
wasn't the right time and place, So I kept in
my back. Because I'm a songwriter, I've written so many songs,
so I was like, I'm going to save this for
after this album. And so this record, you know, four
(02:10):
years some of the songs and then some of them
I'm still finishing. Really, So how fast is a turnaround
for a song? Would you say, Oh, it can be
anywhere from like a song on my first record, I
think I had written on and off for like six years,
So it could be anywhere from six years to one day.
Would you say your perfectionist with Seth, I'm like O. C. D.
(02:32):
When it comes to arn't really. Yeah. So the this
record coming out High Road and Rainbow, I got to
executive produce, so I got to pick every song. I
got to write every song, I got to pick every
drum sound, I got to pick every good guitar tone,
and I just I also don't really care as much
if people like it or dislike it, because I'm proud
(02:53):
of it. Yeah. Is that how you define success? Yeah?
For me, I think it's been a learning process of
how to define success, And for me, it's if I
feel like I was as honest as I could be
and as connected to the truth as I can be,
and if that's happening. And also with my new record,
I really want to make my fans happy because they've
(03:15):
been through it with me. We've gone on a long tumu,
very tumultuous road. That's looks great about your music. It's
a journey. It's not just like album just for music.
It's like you can see your progression as an artist,
which is the coolest thing. Thank you. And like, I
don't even you're probably if you're seventeen. You were seven
when TikTok came out. That sounds about right. So it's
(03:37):
like just crazy to me that like you would even
know the progression of me as an artist because you're
so young. But that's so impressive that you've probably heard
Animal I hope. But even if you haven't, if high
Road is the first record you hear from me, hopefully
you'll get the broad scope of who I am as
a human and artist. So after people listen to High Road,
what do you want them to take away from it?
(04:00):
I think that the number one thing is you can
go through things in life that are difficult and come
out on the other side and reclaim your happiness and
find your joy and I feel like yourself and it
might be something you'll never truly get over, but that's okay,
and you can grow from the pain and make art
(04:20):
out of it, and I think it's so difficult to do.
Though it is difficult, but it also heartbreak creates great
art in my opinion, So even if it's any kind
of heartbreak, you know, yeah, I mean I think you
know it's your album's called high Road. Is that why
you chose to name it that? It's actually a little
play on words. So after I put out Praying for
(04:43):
my last record, I thought people would really expect me
to be taking the high road on like in all
case scenarios. But sorry, dad, But the song high Road
itself is actually about there are all these things on
social media that used to just get to me and
like be so grating and would really affect me. And
(05:03):
now it's legal here, but now I just get stoned
and laugh about it, and I really try not to
let it affect me, which is more difficult than just
saying that. But like, that's what the song is about,
is just being like, I'm just gonna get high and
laugh at this because it's so petty. Well, for those
who don't know, we are actually recording this episode where
you recorded Praying Yes in the studio. In the studio,
(05:26):
this is so this studio must mean just a lot
to you. Yeah, I've recorded. I recorded with Alice Cooper
in the studio. I recorded praying in the studio. We've
recorded a lot of stuff in the studio. The engineer
who's here with us today is like he's recorded a
lot of the songs that he could probably remember more
than that that we recorded here. But we've recorded tons
of stuff in here. Wow. I think this album of
(05:49):
yours I personally love because I think it's very eclectic
and there are so many different styles in one song,
you know, So what is the process for you for
just eating a song? For this record, it was different
than ever before because, like for Rainbow, I had a
lot of emotional baggage to sort through, and on this record,
(06:12):
I really wanted to allow myself to move forward in
my life. Like I said, never get over something, but
allow myself to move forward in trying to find and
reclaim my voice and my joy and my happiness and
all of those things. And I just realized I really
didn't want to have any expectations for myself. I didn't
(06:33):
want to have to adhere to any boundaries or genres,
and I just wanted to, like purely funk around and
see what happened. And good. That's because I'll be listening
to Run the Jewels, and then I'll be listening to Queen,
and then I'll be listening to Cardi B. So it's
like all different kinds of influences that make me happy.
But I just wanted to make my fans really really happy.
(06:55):
And you put that in all just one album, because
I mean, why not. It's also it's my personality, so
why not put it all on one true Do you
have a favorite song off the album? I think today
my favorite song off the album is Resentment. But I'm
just like so excited. It's a beautiful song. And you
have a lot of collaborations on this album. Brian Wilson
(07:16):
just a classic, well just iconic legend god himself. Yeah,
I'm obsessed with pet Sounds and I think that he's
one of the most brilliant minds music has ever seen.
So for him to even like know that I exist
on the planet Earth is insane. And let alone do
a song because for me, like recording with an artist
(07:39):
or working with an artist, or collaborating and just taking
the time to spend time with each other on a
piece of art together. That's the highest form of respect
in my book. Yeah, and just like have him have
anything to do with me on any levels just insanity.
And also Stirgill Simpson is like a dream come true.
(07:59):
And then a really close friend of mine and collaborator,
an amazing songwriter, Ray Ball, is on there. So it's
just like this dream team of some of my favorite
human beings on the earth, even people that you've looked
up to for years since I was like a child,
So how long have you been writing music? Like, were
you like writing poetry as a kid and you didn't
(08:20):
even know what re turnto music? Or was it a
later on things as you were a teenager. So my
mom's a songwriter and she wrote songs for Dolly Parton
and Johnny Cash. So I grew up always being around
studios and always being around songs. I would grow up
like being in the the sound booth while she was
observing it all. Yeah, and I always loved it. And
I would walk around singing and everyone would be like,
(08:41):
tell the kid to shut up. I were studying it
and you didn't even know it. And so then when
I went to like middle school, high school was total hell.
Like we're talking about earlier, school sucks and at least
from a social aspect, and really it's high school can
be hard, it can be really really hard it and
(09:01):
I didn't have the greatest time. I grew up in
the Bible Belt. There was a lot of closed mindedness, homophobia, racism,
a lot of that happening, and I just felt like,
like totally to get away from comfortable. I felt really
uncomfortable and very isolated and like total outcast and misfit
of school. And I just got like so made fun
(09:25):
of and never had a group of friends till I
moved to Los Angeles and I found people that kind
of understood me. But that's when I started writing songs.
Is when I just started having this outsider feeling. I
just always felt like I was outside of everything, especially
at school. I can relate to that. It's a hard feeling.
(09:45):
It sucks, it really sucks, but if you can use
it and channel it and help create your dreams by
just being like, Okay, I'm not going to focus on
the pettiness that's happening at school. I'm an focus on
where I want to go and what i want to be,
and I'm going to let this help drive me. That's
how I took it, and it seems like you're doing
(10:06):
the same thing I'm trying. It's hard, though. What would
you say to your younger self, you're seventeen year old self,
I would say, don't be so hard on yourself and
it's all going to be okay. Man, it's like you're
talking to me. I can feel that we are kindred spirits.
I agree, and I just like know how that feels
(10:31):
to be in school and not feel like you're being
seen or understood or belonging. And it's just like a
really it makes you feel bad about yourself. It's so
very demoralizing and I and I hate that for anybody
who's going through it. But I will say, you can
get out of town and create a whole life that
(10:52):
is perfectly for you, and it does get better. I
know it sounds so cheesy, but like once you follow
your dreams, it gets better and more comfortable. It's hard
to remember in the moment. Have you ever seen the
musical Deer of Van Hanson? I have not. Okay, if
you like, you know, I will write it down. I
will take now, just listen to the like the album
(11:14):
you can listen to it, you will like connect with
it because we we like you were on the same
level here, like listen to that, like you we're blown away.
I won't. I won't. It's gonna be great, is it?
What's it about? It's about UM, a high school kid
with anxiety and he goes into the new school. We are.
It's a very dark subject. It deals with like suicide
(11:35):
and love and all this and that. But it's about I,
at least I took away from because it is a
very depressing musical. Just coming out on the other side
of it and inspiring. And I think you know, through
your music you really channel just the positivity. And I'm
actually really interested with your philosophy and positivity because it's
hard to UM, it's hard to forgive and it's hard
(11:59):
to move on, especially with the positive mindset. How do
you do that? UM? I can't say that I'm perfect
at it, Like you know, when I'm talking with people,
I feel like I want to be this perfect role model, right,
But I struggle with forgiveness. It's hard sometimes because you
can forgive, but you don't forget what people do to
(12:20):
you or what they say to you. So it can
be really difficult to rebuild trust. That's what my song
Resentment is about, is you get resentments towards people and
unless you address them, they can really destroy relationships. And
I just try to always remember that I'm really really
lucky to get to do my dream as a job,
and it's not just my job, it's my life. And
(12:41):
I get to do things like this and meet other
really talented, amazing people and talk about art as my
life and it's so cool. But like, this is your
job when you would be doing it even if it
wasn't be doing it if I was not getting paid
at time, exactly. But that's when you know when you
love something, Yeah, it's your dream. And when it comes
(13:02):
to fruition, I just try to live in the gratitude.
And then I also, just when I was going through
a really dark time a couple of years ago, there
were a lot of people total strangers that were really
really kind to me that I had never met before
and had no reason to be nice to me. And
I just remember feeling so overwhelmed that I could just
(13:22):
still cry about it every time I think about it.
I just I'm like, these people had no reason to
be nice to me or there for me or supportive,
and they were, and I just want to be that
way towards other people. Yeah, kind of does so much,
like just the simplest thing because you don't know what
everyone's going through. You have no idea what anyone is
going through. Yeah, like even someone that flips you off
in the car when you're driving, Like, of course I
(13:44):
get that initial reaction to be like fuck you, yeah
like that, but then I'm like, Okay, you don't know
what they're going through. Just take a deep breath, turn
on some CARDI B. Everything's gonna be okay. You know,
there's actually a quote that I saw that I wanted
to tell you. I don't I don't know who it's by,
so if anyone knows, let me know. But it's anger
is a punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
(14:07):
And I never heard that. I was like, huh, it's
so true, right, Like it's a punishment we give ourselves.
It's like that feeling when for someone else's action and
take it personally. Yeah, that's the thing. If you've ever
read The Four Agreements, and if not, it's a short,
awesome book and one of the four Agreements of life
is trying not to take things personally. So when people
(14:28):
rude or mean or just like girls or bitches at school,
or you know, people have been caddy in the business
simon and I just try not to take it personally
because everyone has their own insecurities and it's usually not
coming from it's like projection. I've done a lot of
therapy around this stuff, but especially if I've ever been
(14:48):
jealous of someone in the past, I now realize that
it's just my own insecurities. So I try to go
into all things in my career and just be like
hopeful and positive for every else. Because people were kind
to me when I needed it, so I just want
to be kind to people. I mean, I think that
definitely shows good hope. So because I feel changed by
(15:11):
the kindness I received, I felt like like taken aback
and realized the power it can have. Would you say
that others people kindness inspired you in your music? Yeah,
and inspired me to be a better person and not
feel especially in industries women are so much pitted against
(15:33):
each other, but also to support each other because there's
enough room for everybody. Exactly. It took the words in
my mouth and in entertainment but kind of it all
starts in like high school, and then in movies women
are fighting over a guy, and I just think it's
kind of set up. It's setting us up all wrong,
Like we should band together. There's room for everyone, and
(15:56):
it's not a competition. Life's not a competition. Like, I
just really want to be super supportive, especially of women
in this business, because that's what I received, and it
was shocking how like impactful that was, and it changed
my life. Okay, here's a question. Do you think you'd
ever write a musical? Hell, yeah, I actually thought about it.
(16:18):
You should do it on this topic. I was thinking
about that and just like the evolution of mankind and
where society is going and how kind of fucked. But yeah,
I'm like trying to stay hopeful. Yeah, like that's all
you can do at this point. It's all that you
can do, just especially with social issues. That's my main
(16:41):
you know, place of concern is just where we have
made progress. I just don't want to go backwards. And
I just see we're already starting. I've already yea And
you see it and you feel it and you want
to fight against it. And I feel as if there's
just racism raging and home of obia raging and anti semitic,
(17:03):
like it's everywhere, just anybody you want to fill in
the blank. So I think it's just important to just
try to spread love as much as you can, positivity
and good good vibes, because that's all you can do
at this point. You know, vote, vote, I'm actually going
(17:23):
to be voting in this the first first time. So important.
I'm so excited, just like I've been, Like, I'm taking
you as government class and a US history, so I'm
like extra educating myself, watch the news every so like
trying to like stay intact with it smart because you
learn what not to do from not repeating habits that
we have maybe done in the past and made mistakes
(17:45):
within no history, to not repeat history. Yeah, I kind
of did the same thing in high school. I studied
a lot of um. I studied could where history for fun.
I was studying religious history. I was obsessed. So was
history your favorite subject when you in scool? Did you
like anything? I liked it all, honestly, I really like
That's like me. I love learning, but I hate the
(18:08):
other aspect of it. I hated like the rest all
of it, but I liked learning information because I feel
like information does help you create a more educated decision
about who to be and how to act. And I'm
sure that affects your songwriting too. The more you know
on the topic, it can affect how the song sounds well,
especially just also knowing that when I first started out,
(18:31):
this was again ten years ago. I just want to
make people dance and shake their ass and I still,
I mean, that's still a goal of mine. I still
want to make people a dance and have the best
night of their life when they come to a show
like that. But I just the more I've learned about
social progress and also going backwards, the more I want
to put messages and meaning and depth into not only
(18:54):
my music, but also give back in any way I can.
So all of a sudden, it's not just like this
total nurse assist being a famous person thing. It's also
utilizing your life platform and all of that. Well, I
think we have to talk about TikTok. I feel like
it would just be a shame, It would be it
would just be a shame if we didn't. How did
do you How did that song come about? And do
(19:15):
you realize it would be such a hit that it began. No,
you never know what's going to be a hit and
what's not. You really don't. You just write songs. Pray
for the best and that song actually, I remember writing
the lyrics and I was like, this is like it
was a joke. I was joking. I was like taking
the piss out of like life, and I wrote all
(19:38):
these different lyrics that were a lot deeper and more complicated,
and then I just wrote TikTok versus as literally a joke.
And then I remember somebody I was working with was
just like, just for fun, make it as dumb as
humanly possible the money, yeah, And I was like pedicures
on my test test and they're like, that's great it
(20:00):
and I was like, but it's so dumb, Like it's good.
But I think it also set my career up in
a way where people didn't know if I wasn't on
the joke or not. So I've spent if you were,
if that's how you actually worked an artist, or if
that was just you messing your head. Yeah, And I
don't know if you listened to the Best Boys, but
especially their first record, like it was them having fun
(20:21):
and just kind of being idiots and being happy and
fun and joking about ship and just like being nihilist
young people. And that was kind of where my head
was at then. But then I also think that I
had to spend a solid like five years trying to
prove to people that I had a brain? Was that?
(20:41):
Do you think that made it harder for you to
prove yourself in the industry because you know that was
your breakout song, but it wasn't everything you could accomplish
as an artist, right, And it did. And I feel
like I've had to just proved myself over and over
and over, and I finally feel like with this record,
I only feel like I've been seen and heard for
(21:02):
all sides of my personality, because I do have a
side that's just kind of a jackass, but then I
have a really emotional side that's every person. And that's
what I think. I felt like I finally got to
showcase on my last record, and so on this new record,
I have both sides. It's like a mix of it
all and like all sides of my voice, all sides
of my personality, and I hope people can have so
(21:24):
much fun with it. But also there are songs where
I'm like wailing and singing and that are really depressing.
So it just depends on the day and how I'm
feeling that day. But you can also be all those things.
The song Father Daughter Dance, it is so beautiful. Thank you.
(21:46):
Is it hard to be that vulnerable on your records,
because I know you did that with Praying and Rainbow
and that whole album, um, but it's still hard to
put out things so just authentic to your life. Well,
that one was particular, literally hard. I was actually in
the studio. Yeah, we're in this room, and I was
working with him and my friend Drew, who I did
(22:07):
a good portion of Rainbow with two he's a producer.
And I never really thought I had that much emotion
behind not growing up with a father figure, and and
then it just kind of started happening, like it really
was my stream of consciousness. But I wasn't even conscious
(22:28):
of it. It was you didn't realize how much he
needed to put it out there. And I was very,
very uncomfortable. It was very how can you not be though?
It was so uncomfortable, especially especially if you didn't like
mentally prepare for something like that. Oh, I like really
was fighting it and then I was with the two
guys that both have children with have daughters, and they
(22:49):
were like, no, this is important to keep going, and
I was like, I just feel really uncomfortable. But usually
the songs that are the most uncomfortable and you just
like really don't how artists, those are the hardest. But
usually those are the ones that people in my past
experience have responded to and been like, Okay, I really
relate to that on like a deep level. So the
(23:11):
uncomfortable and like painful and the tea sometimes good to
put yourself, you know, in uncomfortable situations, like wow, I
feel like I'm slightly addicted to putting myself an uncomfortable situation.
I'm like forcing myself to sometimes because like and it's
just like getting myself like Okay, Smith, you can do this.
You can do it. And it's also like the adrenaline,
(23:32):
and adrenaline helps so much. It does well when you
play live TV shows. Every time. I cannot imagine the
adrenaline that comes from that. I get so scared and
I've been doing this for ten years. Do you still
get stage fright? Um? I get like massively terrified to
the point of like for sure, crying before I take
(23:53):
the stage. Ever, if it's a live TV performance, when
I'm just playing shows, they're not televised, and I know
it's just my fan and we're just write or die,
and it's so fun and infectious. I don't get nervous.
I get excited, like I'm going to a house party.
So what is it about the live TV is because
like so many people you know that don't necessarily know
you are watching, or don't necessarily like me, or would
(24:14):
like to find something to pick apart, or would like
to find the one note that I miss because I
don't lip sync, and things like that where I just
don't want to be fucked if I can't hear myself
and I hit one bad note, or if I'm dancing
and I'm out of breath and it's just it's live, well,
that's you know, it's life not That's what I think
is so incredible about live performances is because it's not
(24:36):
exactly how it is and you can see that everyone's
just human, and I think people forget that. Well, it's
also like you don't know if people want that because
it's We're also used to the face tune and the
auto tune and all of these things that are supposed
to make us all quote unquote perfect. I don't believe
in that can like that concept. I don't believe in
(24:58):
perfection as an even the thing. I don't think it exists.
But I don't think. But like we're all because what
is perfect? It sounds really boring to me, but like,
I just don't. I also think it's different for every person,
and we're all fed that perfection is something that is
almost unachievable and something that we're not. So it feeds
(25:19):
this insecurity, especially in women, and I am just calling
it bullshit. I'm thirty two years old over it, and
I don't want to be perfect. I'm not ever going
to be, so no one is in the fact that
you're showing that will help others to realize that, oh,
like being not perfect is cool and everything and everyone
(25:41):
is perfect if you stop comparing. True. Something I wrote
on my ceiling when I was in high school and
it's still there at my mom's house. How do you
write what your ceiling? I stood on my beds put
posters up there and right on the ceiling. Nice, that's impressive,
But you know there's a song there just from like
(26:03):
your past music that I love, Good Old Days that
you did with Mac That is such a beautiful song.
And I think the lyrics and rainbow just about the rainbow. Yeah,
and just like the colors, Like colors are great, colors
are great. I just put out makeup and it's really
I want to talk to you about that. Yeah, I'll
(26:23):
send you a box of it if you want. It's
very bright and yes, please, okay, cool, I'll send you
a box. But I'm so excited about it because it's
so bright and colorful, beauty, And I just wanted to
make something that would make people happy, and I think
colors make people happy. There's something about it. I don't
(26:44):
know what it is. What do you think your favorite colors?
Like if you had to only wear one color for
the rest of your life, I don't know if I
could do that, Like if you had to, if I
had to, is rainbow a color? I'm not, no, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna make it hard for you. It would be
either a baby pink or turquoise, oh, or a puke
(27:05):
green like a shart truth, So I can't pick. Yeah,
but light pink is so pretty. All those I've had
my hair all those colors, so I was thinking about
all my favorite hair colors. I love your hair color.
Is talking about this earlier. I think it's so cool.
Thank you. I'm still kind of getting used to it. Yeah,
I feel like when I look at myself in the mirror,
I kind of feel like an alien. Yeah, when you're
(27:27):
used to seeing yourself fun way, But then I also
like challenging it, Like I used to not wear a
lot of color, and now I want to because it's
almost just reconnecting with my child self, child self and
my child heart is. I love color and I love glitter,
and I don't care what I love glitter. I think
it's like an innate animal instinct almost to like sparkly things.
(27:52):
I know that I literally have unicorn socks and unicorn necklace.
I love color and everything well, I love also unicorns,
so incredible. I want to talk to you about Kesher's beauty.
The colors in your palette are just it makes me
happy looking at it good. That was my goal packing
and the color is just the whole thing to feel
(28:13):
like magical. So do you when you're creating a makeup line,
how do you decide what you want it? To look like,
because it looks very cohesive but also very um different.
I wanted it to be unique. I wanted it to
be something that if you had it out on your
counter or in your purse, that if you pulled it out,
people would be like, what is that? That's really cool?
(28:34):
Especially the I palette. I wanted it's foil and velvet
and stars and there's a tassel, and there's all these
colors and summer day and summer night and summer whatever
you want. And I just wanted to give people something
really special because it's something that is it easy to apply,
because it's hot, it's This is why it took me
(28:56):
over a year to make this is because I love
all the colors. So I was like, I want cold free, right,
So it's cruelty free, not tested on animals, not made
of any animals, super pigmented, which is hard to achieve
when it's cruelty free and just has absolutely no harm
done to any animals. Like working on a red that
(29:16):
was really difficult. I can't imagine how hard it is
to develop red. It's hard because it's usually made out
of like smushed up beetles. That's usually what red is
from you learned something every day. No smushed animals in
my makeup, so yeah, and if you add water to
the eyeshadows then they get even more pigmented, so you
(29:39):
can just like play with it and it's for playing,
it's for feeling. Oh, I want to try this, like
happy and excited about life, and I like to do
one eye one color sometimes and one eye the other color,
and I'd just go full like yeah, why not exactly.
I've just like, like I was telling you before, I've
I'm not really into like beauty standards of what I'm
(30:00):
supposed to be. I would like to just do what
makes me happy, and I think especially with my makeup,
I would like for everybody else to do that, just
do what makes me happy. Well, I feel like you
just to sidetrack for a second. I feel like you
have so many great memories and experiences just because you
want to test things and try new things. What do
you think the most memorable and or rebellious thing you
(30:24):
did when you're a teen? Well, so my mom wasn't. Honestly,
I think it was. She wrote country music. So I
was like, what is the polar opposite kind of music
I could make? And it was like dancy, like it
was emotional, but it was also like I don't call
(30:44):
it rapping, I call it ship talking because I myself
a rapper. But I was like, what would be like
the polar opposite of what kind of music my mom writes?
And so I kind of just went like full dance
and was talking shit and like just went in a
totally different direction. That's kind of how I found my
sound initially was by accident. It was just me trying
(31:05):
to rebel against what my mom would have wanted me
to do. Yeah, and it's funny because now I've come
full circle and just but as a song with Sturgill
Simpson and love country music. So hey, everything happens for
a reason in that way, I think I like to
believe it does, because if you don't believe that, and
there are some days I don't, But I think it
(31:26):
depends on the situation. Like I feel like, if the
star is aligne, you know, then why not think it
happens for a reason. It's kind of you can make
that choice or not. And it feels nice to think
something's watching out over you and everything's happening for a
reason and there is karma all of those very hippie
things I do. I do believe in because it makes
(31:47):
me feel comforted. Yeah, And I mean I also know
that it might not be real, but I like to
believe it. I think I think it was you on
the Zach Saying Show when I heard you say that
you believe that, Well, you're talking about raising hell and
you're talking about that you believe you can make heaven
on earth. Can you talk more about that? Sure? I
(32:09):
think that like our experience, how we behave to ourselves
to other people, being honest, chasing our dreams, believing in ourselves,
all of those things can contribute to leading a more
positive or quote unquote heavenly experience. And I'm not so
worried about being judged at the gates of heaven or hell.
(32:30):
I'm more concerned with leading a really honest life and
standing for something and being remembered for standing for something
and being a good person and being on the right
side of history. And I feel like that to me
is living in your heaven, and living in your hell
would be not following your heart and not following your truth.
(32:55):
I love that is that how you want to be remembered,
And like, that's what is that what you want your
legacy to be weird. You're asking me that because I
was up all night last night, I couldn't sleep because
of the full moon, and I wrote a song called legacy.
That's really bizarre. You asked me that that's so weird.
But I was talking about how I don't really know
(33:15):
what I want to be on my tombstone. I think
it should just say like party on but of us, Yes,
because I also just think we're here for a short time.
I think we're we all should try to have the
best time we possibly can. And there's a little bit
(33:35):
of nihilism in that, which is you know it is
what it is. You know you never know how long
you're going to be here for, so live it to
the fullest. And a lot of my songs are about that.
I know. I think it's I just think it's so
incredible and it makes me smile that you did a
song with kes with Kesha with the dollar sign. Can
(33:55):
you hear it? I love it. It's like, what made you?
How do you come up with that idea to do
a collaboration with your former your former self, your former reputation. Well,
I think it's just like me being self aware that
at that time when I had the dollar sign and
(34:16):
my name and people just have no idea what to
do with me, and like really really had no idea,
and so I wanted to be my current self, but
featuring that part of me. And so what made you
change from the dollar sign to the just a regular sum?
Was there a mementire like today's the day I had
(34:36):
like just a year of change and going through some
really heavy stuff, and it was a lot thrown at
me right in one year, and it just made me
want to I wanted to respect myself as an artist
more because I felt like I wasn't being seen for
who I really am, and I think to be seen
(35:00):
for who you really are, you have to present who
you actually are. And a huge part of that was
being more vulnerable and not always just being so self
deprecating and taking the piss Like my Twitter handle used
to be Cashia sucks because I thought I'll just beat
people to the punchline. So but then I just I
wanted to just feel like I was being nicer to
(35:21):
myself and it's hard to do that. It was thought
literally the hardest thing in the entire world. That's my
biggest challenge. What do you say to someone who's like
going through that needs to overcome to self love? Self
love is such a hard thing because it's so easy
to talk about, is really really hard to practice. I
think giving myself a break is really really hard. And
(35:43):
I mean, you seem like you're a very ambitious person yourself.
It's really hard to be really ambitious and want to
conquer the world in whatever field you're going for and
then also take it easy on yourself. I don't know
if you I'm very I'm very critical of myself. Me too,
and I think that's part of what makes my work ethic.
(36:06):
I love to work and I love to be so
involved in everything because it's so cool creating something. It's
the best, the best feeling. Oh my god, I love it.
This is the first thing I've ever created. And the
fact that it's like, you know, I was working on
it in my room and now it's like I'm talking
to you, like man, like amazing. You should as you
(36:28):
totally should. And I used to just feel like, oh,
I'm such a douche bag. If I ever say anything
nice about myself, it's hard for me to do it.
Like I'm trying to make more of an effort to
just be like I want me too. Every day, every
day something I work on because I just never want
to come off like I'm full of myself, are conceited,
or you're bragging. You know, you just want to share
(36:49):
your experience. I got you. But I also feel like, wow,
I work, I work a lot to do this thing,
and I should be able to say a nice thing
about it without feeling like a douche bag. That's really
hard for me. It's really hard to relax sometimes, like
just especially just to take a breath, like live in
the moment. It's one of the hardest things stay. But
(37:10):
when you're in the moment, it's the best feeling. Well,
like here, I might here with you. You know, we're
like creating something that is part of your destiny and mine.
So I feel really good about this time. But then
if I were to go home and just like lay
on the couch, I would be there for about two
minutes and then I would feel really guilty and go
upstairs and start like playing the piano. That's so interesting. Yeah,
(37:34):
I don't know if that's like the healthiest thing in
the world, but I find it so interesting just I'm
obsessed with it creating. Yeah, it makes me feel like
peaceful when I can create, it makes me feel useful
and peaceful. And I don't know if it's like the
healthiest thing, but for me in my life, I found
it to be the most therapeutic thing when I create.
What is your biggest goal as an artist? Is it
(37:55):
to win Grammys? Is it to make a certain amount
of albums? You know? What use to be things like
of course, who doesn't want to grant me? You know?
If you make music, of course that's like a dream.
But I've tried to make it more um less dependent
on external validation. So something like that you really have
(38:19):
no control over. So I don't want to put my
happiness in the hands of something I have zero control over.
I'd rather make control of situation. Yeah, and just feel
successful in creating a song like praying. That song is
like a journey, and like a song, I feel you
every time I sing it, I feel like you go
through a story. I go through it every every single
(38:41):
time I sing that song. But I've had so many
people that have gone through very very different things that
I've gone through and have just said they related to
that song and that to me is the best feeling
in the world. Knowing that you've connected with someone and
I can't helped them in a way, I feel not alone.
That to me is success. I hope that's what this does.
(39:03):
And I'm just so happy and grateful that you know,
you're on this week's episode, and it just means the
world to me. Thank you, And I'm so excited for you.
And I'm like, you're seventeen, and that's so impressive that
you're so you're just so in charge of your life
and you're doing what you want to do, and I
just think that's badass. It's really hard to just go
(39:25):
after what you want and have the confidence to do
it and really just do it, and you're doing it,
and it's amazing and really inspiring. Well, thank you so much.
Oh my god, Well, thank you so much for being
on this week's episode. Make sure you go listen to
Kesha's new album High Road Amazing. Hope you guys like it. Bye,
I'm so excited for you. I hope you guys enjoyed
(39:48):
this episode with Kesha. I had such an incredible time
just getting to know her. Make sure you go listen
to her new album High Road and follow her on
her socials. Her instagram is I is who I Is.
Make sure you follow my instagram which is It's Sammy
j I T S S A M M Y j
A y E. And also follow my podcast instagram, which
(40:10):
is crazy to say, it's Sammy j Dot. Let's be
real and you're gonna want to follow that because there
are some pretty exciting giveaways coming and a lot of
fun stuff. Um. I hope you guys enjoyed this week's
episode by
Host
Sammy Jaye
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