July 3, 2025 • 17 mins
Dave Wedge joined the Billy and Lisa show and then stuck around to chat with Lisa about his new book, the making of Patriots Day and his new project about Karen Read. Dave is a New York Times-bestselling author, journalist, and award-winning former reporter for the Boston Herald.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, Welcome to Lisa's book Club, a podcast where I
interview best selling authors from the New England area, pulling
back the curtain on what it's really like being a
best selling author. They're guilty pleasures, latest projects, and so
much more. Welcome into Lisa's book Club podcast. And we
have an author in studio right now. And I love
(00:27):
this because Dave Wedge is a Milton resident.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey Dave, Hi, how are you, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'm so glad you're here. You joined us on I know,
and I didn't even know that you were on the
Billy and Lisa Show this week and we're sharing all
of your stories. But the fact that you live literally
like two streets over for me is bizarre.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It is I did see once in the Fruit Center,
but you're on the phone, so.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, the next time we have to say hi.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
The Fruit Center is amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
They do.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We do too. They're really good Angry Tuna. Have you
tried the Angry Tuna?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, it's so good. Shout out to Michael and his
whole family and the team over there. But anyway, all right,
so we are here because you have a new book out.
It's called Blood and hate the marvelous Marvin Hagler story.
And I'm going to get to that, but I want
to sort of give people a background on what you've
been doing. So you started at the Herald, you were
(01:27):
a reporter and you were basically reporting the day that
the Boston marathon bombing happened.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, so I was a reporter for twenty five years,
newspaper reporter, did some radio and a little TV here
and there, but fourteen years at the Herald, andywn. On
April fifteenth, twenty thirteen, I was the city Hall bureau
chief and when the bombs went off, I was launched
into action and kind of led the Herald's coverage of
that terrible tragedy and then ultimate capture of the terrorists
(01:57):
in Watertown. And I was out there in the middle
of the night and Watatown throughout the night until they
caught them.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So after they caught them and we knew what happened,
when did you decide that you wanted to write a
book about this?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So I had thought about doing a book on a
couple of different cases throughout my career. I had some
other opportunities, but nothing that really jumped out at me.
And then when this happened, I thought to myself, you
know a lot, there's gonna be lots of interest in this.
People are going to do books, will probably multiple books,
and I just felt like I was in a pretty
unique position to have a front seat to all of it.
I was pretty close with Marmonino, Governor Patrick ed Davis,
(02:33):
the police commissioner. So I said, you know what, I
can do a really good job on this. I partnered
up with Casey Sherman and we wrote the book, and
soon enough it was picked up and it was part
of the package for Patriot's Day the movie.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
How long did that process take?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It happened very fast, you know, thirteen years ago or so.
Now it's hard to remember, but it all happened within
a few months between us starting to write the book
and it getting picked up and all that.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And were you actively trying to sell the book or
did they come to you?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So we Casey had just done a movie in a
book called The Finest Hours. Casey's a part. Casey Sherman
my longtime collaborators from Marshfield. He was a producer at
Channel four and he had written several books. Finest Hours
he had just finished it was a big Disney movie,
so he already had Hollywood agents and all that stuff.
So he went to them and said, this is my
(03:24):
next book, and we partnered up and soon I had
agents and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And then Mark Wahlberg signed on, who was perfect.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
He was great. It was great to work with. We
got to spend some time on the set with him.
And you know, I've known Mark a little bit off
and on over the years because he has we have
mutual friends in Brockton and South Boston. I grew up
in Brockton, and he's just a you know, he's a
huge talent. He's a great guy. He was very easy
to work with. He was very respectful of the material,
which was a big deal to Casey and I and
(03:51):
everybody really. I mean everyone here knows someone that had
some connection to the marathon. So we wanted to make
sure it had to be done.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Right and did they use you on a lot?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
We were there, We were there several times. Pete was
Pete Burg, the director was wonderful, asked our opinion on
some stuff. But at the end of the day, you don't,
you know, I'm not telling Pete Burg what to do.
He's one of the best directors in the world.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You know, well, right, because filming a movie and creating
that story is different than you writing your story exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
But you know, he also knew that that. You know,
I was a reporter and I was from Boston, and
I covered the case intimately. So he would ask me
little things from time to time about you know, authenticity
and accuracy. He didn't want to get anything wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
What's the biggest difference in moving from reporting, like for
a newspaper to writing a book.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, length of writing number one. You know, in newspapers
you're writing very short stories, you know, five hundred to
a thousand words. I had started doing some magazine stuff
mid career, and you know those could be two to
three to five thousand words. But then I you know,
made the transition. You know, working with Casey was a
big help in that. His case, he had written several
books already, and I'm now I think I find in
(05:00):
my voice. You know, Casey and I wrote five books together,
and then I've done a couple on my own now,
and I really feel pretty good about where I'm at
as a writer.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So when you have an idea in your brain, like
let's just say the Karen Reid, because you told me
that you are working in a Karen Read book. When
you decide that you're going to do something like that,
where do you start.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That's a good question. So you know, I do come
from a news background, as we just talked about, so
a lot of times news stories come to me, and like, now,
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I
do have agents now and they'll come to me.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And so you're Dave Wedge.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, some would say, my wife would say go take
out the trash, but yes, exactly, no. But with this one, honestly,
the Karen Read case, it's such a big case. And
I started developing three years ago when it started in
twenty twenty two, and I got calls right away from
old people I worked with the newspaper business. They're like, Dave,
you've got to look at this case. It's wild. You
have to take a look at it. And I just
(05:58):
didn't have the time because I was doing another book.
Then as it developed and got to where we are now,
my agent was like, you're the Boston true crime guy.
You got to do this, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So based on that knowing you you know what a
good story is, what was the first thing about the
Karen Reid case that kind of tipped you off to say,
this is something I should follow.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
The dog bites what looked like dog bites on his arm,
but also the you know, all the police that were involved,
and the fact that they were also interconnected with the
local politics, and there was there was just so much
information that wasn't coming out, and as it started to
tumble out, it was pretty clear to everybody that it
was a you know, there was a lot of questions
(06:38):
to be asked, and no matter what you think happened,
it's it's a pretty incredible story, and it's you know,
it's it's to me the reason I'm writing the book
and what I like about it the most is like,
you know, John O'Keefe, his story hasn't been told, you know,
and he he hasn't received justice and and hopefully he
does one day.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I agree with you. The only person I thought of
when they read the verdict was John o'keef's mother, and
it's very sad.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I've spoken to a lot of members of the family,
and you know, I've spoken a lot of people. I've
spoken to Karen Read, I've spoken Alan Jackson, I've been
in the courtroom. But you know, I've covered hundreds of
murder cases in my life, and I've covered dozens of
murder trials in my career, and nothing ever prepares you
for seeing the family's reaction to a verdict either way.
And that family's gone through hell. Remember she didn't just
(07:25):
lose John, she lost her daughter as well, right.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
That, which is the whole backstory of John o'keef taking
care of her children. So will you include the family
John o'keef's family in your book.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I'll be talking to everybody, As I said, I have
talked to some members of the family. I've talked to Karen.
I've talked to lawyers, you know, prosecutors. I'll talk to
anyone that you know. Look me up, talk to me.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I'm ready, you know, right, because Karen's working on a
book now with Alan Jackson in a project for a movie.
So how will your book be different?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, I think you know my body of work speaks
for itself. You know, I'm a I'm a journalist, I'm
an investigator, reporter, I'm an author New York Times bestseller.
I think I'm going to tell the definitive story of
what happened in this case. You know, I'm not beholden
to anyone. I'm not biased, you know, one way or
the other. I'm going to tell the entire story of
everybody involved in what happened. So if you want to
(08:15):
know what really happened in the case, I'm going to
tell it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Why do you think there's so much true crime that
comes out of this area in New England?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I think you know, first of all, we're very
tribal up here. You know, we protect each other and
when things go wrong, loyalties happen very quickly. And that's
what's happened in this case is you know, people chosen
sides and it's much like an election. People are out
there with signs and you know, fighting with each other
on social media and all that stuff. So there's a
lot of drama there. But I think just you know,
(08:44):
Bostonians very passionate people, and again we're very protective of
one another, so when these things happen, the drama elevates
pretty quickly, I think, you know. And also there's just
been some you know, spectacular, incredible, you know, beyond comprehension
crimes that have happened around.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Like the Brian wash case Brunch is coming out.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
The Sander Birchmore case. You know, you know this, you
know you can go back. I mean Coriina Homer, the Nanny,
I covered a case back in the I mean the
eighties or nineties. I guess Mary Luaruda down at the
Freetown State Forest where the young girl that was murdered
and she was found tied to a tree in the forest.
And there's a guy that's tried for her murder four
times and he finally got convicted. But you know, we
(09:27):
just have these cases and they captivate the region and
then people from other regions learn about them and they
take on a life of their own.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Were you surprised at the Karen Read verdict.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I wasn't, No, not at all. I mean, as I said,
it covered dozens of murder trials and hundreds of murder cases,
and you know there was very clear reasonable doubt. You
know that every medical expert said his injuries were not
consistent with being hit by a car that's slammed dunk
and the case right there, that's reasonable doubt if the
jury does its job, and they did.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, they seem like they did. So I want to
talk to you about your newest book. It's called Blood
and Hate, the Marvelous Marvin Hagler Story. And I want
to say that it's been optioned by the actor Sam Rockwell,
which we just saw he just start in The White Lotus.
He was very viral, totally right when did you start
(10:23):
talking to him about the project?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So again, you know, not to sound like Hollywood guy,
but you know, I have agents now, and so when
my new projects are announced that they come out, they
go out to every producer in Hollywood and the town.
And you know, Sam was instantly interested in it, and
they started talking with my reps and next thing you know,
the book was under option and we're developing a film
with Sam and his company. And you know, I think
(10:45):
Sam just recognizes that Marvin's stories is a beautiful story
of friendship and perseverance with his trainers Good He and
Pat Petronelli. It's a story survival and overcoming adversity the
way he came out of Newark, New Jersey and horrible
riots as a young boy, moves to Brockton and takes
on the corrupt boxing industry to this title fight that
(11:06):
I write about in the book. In nineteen eighty and
I think Sam just has a great eye for a
story and he wants to play Goodie Petronelli and I
can say that, yeah, I'm super excited for it. You know,
he's a big boxing fan, as is Pete Burg, you know.
So yeah, I mean it's it's a beautiful story and
it's it's it's a story that I've wanted to tell
for a long time, and now is the time that
I'm finally getting to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So when you're okay, so you when did you finish
the book? Like when did you give it to your publisher?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
That's a good question. I'd like in the late fall,
so and then it just came out this past tuesday.
So I came out in June seventeenth, So.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Did you then give it to Sam? And then?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
So, oh, no, good quest. I understand. Sorry, I know.
So when I sell a book these days, I sell
it based on a proposal, and the proposals, you know,
usually could be seventeen to fifty pages, and that's like
a docum, like an outline of the story and why
it's important and why now, all that sort of stuff.
And that's what I used to for the publishers to
(12:07):
say we want this book. So those proposals are often
what is option. So they optioned the material based off
the proposal, and they know who I am.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So so has he read the book.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Now? Yes? He has now, but he didn't when they
originally optioned it. So interesting, it's an interesting process, but
it happens more and more in Hollywood. Now they're buying
the story.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Okay, so, and you can answer this or not answer this,
but do they give you money up front when they
option it? Do you get a check?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
There's option fees. Yeah, they're not what they used to be,
but they're you know, it's part of the income.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
What's the what's an option fee these days?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I am not getting into that. No, No, I mean, look,
the money is when the movie gets made. You know,
it's really just a holding fee. We hold the rights
so that we can shop it and make a movie,
you know, that sort of thing. But once the movie
gets made, like with Patriots Day, that's when you know
there's actual money involved. And you know, but again it's
not retirement go buy boats and go to Fiji money,
(13:02):
but it's I'm a working writer and it lets me
keep writing, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Oh, of course. But it's a dream to have your
book made into it is.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It's amazing to me that my first book was made
into a big, huge Hollywood movie that said, you know,
I wish I had written Lord of the Rings of
Star Wars. You know, I didn't want to do a
book about terrorism in the city that I grew up
in and a little boy lost his life. So I'm
proud to have told the story. But it's hard to
be like, oh, that was awesome, you.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Know, No, it's yeah, it's it's always hard. I mean,
these stories are.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So this one, I will be this one. I will
be very proud when we have a premiere, and I'm
going to have a premiere in Brockton for it, because
Marvin Hagler represents so much of the spirit of Brockton,
where I grew up, and I want that to be shared.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Boston Strong was about surviving, It was about survivors. It
was about the grittiness of Bostonians. And now you've shifted
gears to Marvin Hagler, who is also a gritty survivor
of a story that a lot of people don't know about.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, it was a very long, only young boy growing
up in Newark with no father, He had five siblings
living with his mother and they were in the middle
of a really bad neighborhood in Newark. In nineteen sixty seven,
some of the worst riots in American history broke out
in Newark during that summer. It was called the Long
Hot Summer sixty seven and they were literally bullets pinging
off their walls and the kids were hiding on the
floor covering. That's how I opened the book as I
(14:20):
set that scene, and twenty six people died in those riots.
And that's when the mother, Ida May, finally said, you
know what, we're moving out and they moved to Brockton
and that's where his boxing journey started.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, he was a fighter. Now, I want to play
a clip from Joe Rogan, who was a big Hagler fan.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
When I was a kid growing up in Boston, Hagler
was the Middleway champion of the world and I used
to see they used to have video of him running.
They played it on the news. He was running on
the there was the dunes, sand dunes and Katee cot in
the winter, freezing cold with a hoodie on, running screaming
war Way. Oh, it's amazing. Marvin Hagler made you want
to just get out of your house and go running
(14:58):
in the snow.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Okay, I love that great clip. But then when you
open up your book, Dave, the first page is the
photograph that Joe Rogan's talking about.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That's right, yeah, no, it's a very iconic photo and
it's you know, that embodies who Marvin was. And Joe's right.
You know, he he was this guy that it was
him against the world. And he wasn't an insider in boxing,
wasn't Sugar Ray Lenned, he wasn't Muhammad Ali. You know,
he wasn't Jake Paul. You know, he wasn't a media darling.
He was a tough dude who had to fight for
(15:31):
everything he got. And the way he did that was
he isolated himself. He called training camp prison, and he
would go down to Provincetown, to the Provincetown Inn at
the very tip of the cape and run on that
beach by himself or with Goody Petronelli in the snow, rain, sleet,
in the deep sand and work boots. And you know,
you look at his physique and I think it's a
big reason why he was like that.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Who do you think should play him?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So I get that question a lot. So I don't
know if you saw the movie or the TV show
Winning Time that was with It's about the Lakers Showtime Lakers.
John c Riley plays Jerry Buss. There's a young guy
who played Magic Johnson in that, and I tell the
story because he was an unknown and he did an
amazing job. He became Magic Johnson. So we have to
find that guy for Marvin Hagler because you know, this
(16:16):
is not you know, forty year old Marvin Hagler. It's
twenty two to twenty seven year old Marmin Haigler. So
it's going to be a very young new actor, someone
tough and that knows the fight game. So that's up
to Sam. Sam will find the right guy.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I can't wait to see this.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
It's going to be a beautiful movie.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
It really is what keeps drawing you to these kinds
of stories as a writer.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So you mentioned Boston Strong, and we wrote about the survivors.
You know, in Case, I made a conscious choice not
to write about the terrorists as much. You learn a
little bit about them, but we wanted to tell the
survivor stories. And every book I do, whether it's Pete
Frady's or Tom Brady to Flakegate, or the FBI agents
who captured Whitey Bulger or Marvelous Marvin Hagler. I like
to find those people that overcome challenges and they have
(16:59):
a redemption moment where they they finally win, you know,
they overcome. You know we all love Rocky, right, we
all love Rocky movie. People love an underdog and they
love people that succeed against the odds, and that's what
makes great stories.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
To me, I agree, and this is going to be
a great movie. I cannot this is going to be
the modern day Rocky.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Oh. I hope you're right.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I really, I really believe that it's a It's a
great story and it needs to be told. I'm so
happy you wrote the book. Thanks Dave for joining us
on the Lisa's Book Club podcast pick Up Blood and Hate,
The Untold Story of Marvis Marvin Hegler's Battle for Glory
by Dave Wedge. And this was fun.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
This is amazing. Thanks for having me, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I love your club. It's fun.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Thank you.
Hey, Welcome to Lisa's book Club, a podcast where I
interview best selling authors from the New England area, pulling
back the curtain on what it's really like being a
best selling author. They're guilty pleasures, latest projects, and so
much more. Welcome into Lisa's book Club podcast. And we
have an author in studio right now. And I love
(00:27):
this because Dave Wedge is a Milton resident.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey Dave, Hi, how are you, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'm so glad you're here. You joined us on I know,
and I didn't even know that you were on the
Billy and Lisa Show this week and we're sharing all
of your stories. But the fact that you live literally
like two streets over for me is bizarre.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It is I did see once in the Fruit Center,
but you're on the phone, so.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, the next time we have to say hi.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
The Fruit Center is amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
They do.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We do too. They're really good Angry Tuna. Have you
tried the Angry Tuna?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, it's so good. Shout out to Michael and his
whole family and the team over there. But anyway, all right,
so we are here because you have a new book out.
It's called Blood and hate the marvelous Marvin Hagler story.
And I'm going to get to that, but I want
to sort of give people a background on what you've
been doing. So you started at the Herald, you were
(01:27):
a reporter and you were basically reporting the day that
the Boston marathon bombing happened.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, so I was a reporter for twenty five years,
newspaper reporter, did some radio and a little TV here
and there, but fourteen years at the Herald, andywn. On
April fifteenth, twenty thirteen, I was the city Hall bureau
chief and when the bombs went off, I was launched
into action and kind of led the Herald's coverage of
that terrible tragedy and then ultimate capture of the terrorists
(01:57):
in Watertown. And I was out there in the middle
of the night and Watatown throughout the night until they
caught them.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So after they caught them and we knew what happened,
when did you decide that you wanted to write a
book about this?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So I had thought about doing a book on a
couple of different cases throughout my career. I had some
other opportunities, but nothing that really jumped out at me.
And then when this happened, I thought to myself, you
know a lot, there's gonna be lots of interest in this.
People are going to do books, will probably multiple books,
and I just felt like I was in a pretty
unique position to have a front seat to all of it.
I was pretty close with Marmonino, Governor Patrick ed Davis,
(02:33):
the police commissioner. So I said, you know what, I
can do a really good job on this. I partnered
up with Casey Sherman and we wrote the book, and
soon enough it was picked up and it was part
of the package for Patriot's Day the movie.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
How long did that process take?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It happened very fast, you know, thirteen years ago or so.
Now it's hard to remember, but it all happened within
a few months between us starting to write the book
and it getting picked up and all that.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And were you actively trying to sell the book or
did they come to you?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So we Casey had just done a movie in a
book called The Finest Hours. Casey's a part. Casey Sherman
my longtime collaborators from Marshfield. He was a producer at
Channel four and he had written several books. Finest Hours
he had just finished it was a big Disney movie,
so he already had Hollywood agents and all that stuff.
So he went to them and said, this is my
(03:24):
next book, and we partnered up and soon I had
agents and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And then Mark Wahlberg signed on, who was perfect.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
He was great. It was great to work with. We
got to spend some time on the set with him.
And you know, I've known Mark a little bit off
and on over the years because he has we have
mutual friends in Brockton and South Boston. I grew up
in Brockton, and he's just a you know, he's a
huge talent. He's a great guy. He was very easy
to work with. He was very respectful of the material,
which was a big deal to Casey and I and
(03:51):
everybody really. I mean everyone here knows someone that had
some connection to the marathon. So we wanted to make
sure it had to be done.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Right and did they use you on a lot?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
We were there, We were there several times. Pete was
Pete Burg, the director was wonderful, asked our opinion on
some stuff. But at the end of the day, you don't,
you know, I'm not telling Pete Burg what to do.
He's one of the best directors in the world.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You know, well, right, because filming a movie and creating
that story is different than you writing your story exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
But you know, he also knew that that. You know,
I was a reporter and I was from Boston, and
I covered the case intimately. So he would ask me
little things from time to time about you know, authenticity
and accuracy. He didn't want to get anything wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
What's the biggest difference in moving from reporting, like for
a newspaper to writing a book.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, length of writing number one. You know, in newspapers
you're writing very short stories, you know, five hundred to
a thousand words. I had started doing some magazine stuff
mid career, and you know those could be two to
three to five thousand words. But then I you know,
made the transition. You know, working with Casey was a
big help in that. His case, he had written several
books already, and I'm now I think I find in
(05:00):
my voice. You know, Casey and I wrote five books together,
and then I've done a couple on my own now,
and I really feel pretty good about where I'm at
as a writer.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So when you have an idea in your brain, like
let's just say the Karen Reid, because you told me
that you are working in a Karen Read book. When
you decide that you're going to do something like that,
where do you start.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That's a good question. So you know, I do come
from a news background, as we just talked about, so
a lot of times news stories come to me, and like, now,
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I
do have agents now and they'll come to me.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
And so you're Dave Wedge.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, some would say, my wife would say go take
out the trash, but yes, exactly, no. But with this one, honestly,
the Karen Read case, it's such a big case. And
I started developing three years ago when it started in
twenty twenty two, and I got calls right away from
old people I worked with the newspaper business. They're like, Dave,
you've got to look at this case. It's wild. You
have to take a look at it. And I just
(05:58):
didn't have the time because I was doing another book.
Then as it developed and got to where we are now,
my agent was like, you're the Boston true crime guy.
You got to do this, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So based on that knowing you you know what a
good story is, what was the first thing about the
Karen Reid case that kind of tipped you off to say,
this is something I should follow.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
The dog bites what looked like dog bites on his arm,
but also the you know, all the police that were involved,
and the fact that they were also interconnected with the
local politics, and there was there was just so much
information that wasn't coming out, and as it started to
tumble out, it was pretty clear to everybody that it
was a you know, there was a lot of questions
(06:38):
to be asked, and no matter what you think happened,
it's it's a pretty incredible story, and it's you know,
it's it's to me the reason I'm writing the book
and what I like about it the most is like,
you know, John O'Keefe, his story hasn't been told, you know,
and he he hasn't received justice and and hopefully he
does one day.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I agree with you. The only person I thought of
when they read the verdict was John o'keef's mother, and
it's very sad.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I've spoken to a lot of members of the family,
and you know, I've spoken a lot of people. I've
spoken to Karen Read, I've spoken Alan Jackson, I've been
in the courtroom. But you know, I've covered hundreds of
murder cases in my life, and I've covered dozens of
murder trials in my career, and nothing ever prepares you
for seeing the family's reaction to a verdict either way.
And that family's gone through hell. Remember she didn't just
(07:25):
lose John, she lost her daughter as well, right.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
That, which is the whole backstory of John o'keef taking
care of her children. So will you include the family
John o'keef's family in your book.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I'll be talking to everybody, As I said, I have
talked to some members of the family. I've talked to Karen.
I've talked to lawyers, you know, prosecutors. I'll talk to
anyone that you know. Look me up, talk to me.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I'm ready, you know, right, because Karen's working on a
book now with Alan Jackson in a project for a movie.
So how will your book be different?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, I think you know my body of work speaks
for itself. You know, I'm a I'm a journalist, I'm
an investigator, reporter, I'm an author New York Times bestseller.
I think I'm going to tell the definitive story of
what happened in this case. You know, I'm not beholden
to anyone. I'm not biased, you know, one way or
the other. I'm going to tell the entire story of
everybody involved in what happened. So if you want to
(08:15):
know what really happened in the case, I'm going to
tell it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Why do you think there's so much true crime that
comes out of this area in New England?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I think you know, first of all, we're very
tribal up here. You know, we protect each other and
when things go wrong, loyalties happen very quickly. And that's
what's happened in this case is you know, people chosen
sides and it's much like an election. People are out
there with signs and you know, fighting with each other
on social media and all that stuff. So there's a
lot of drama there. But I think just you know,
(08:44):
Bostonians very passionate people, and again we're very protective of
one another, so when these things happen, the drama elevates
pretty quickly, I think, you know. And also there's just
been some you know, spectacular, incredible, you know, beyond comprehension
crimes that have happened around.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Like the Brian wash case Brunch is coming out.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
The Sander Birchmore case. You know, you know this, you
know you can go back. I mean Coriina Homer, the Nanny,
I covered a case back in the I mean the
eighties or nineties. I guess Mary Luaruda down at the
Freetown State Forest where the young girl that was murdered
and she was found tied to a tree in the forest.
And there's a guy that's tried for her murder four
times and he finally got convicted. But you know, we
(09:27):
just have these cases and they captivate the region and
then people from other regions learn about them and they
take on a life of their own.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Were you surprised at the Karen Read verdict.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I wasn't, No, not at all. I mean, as I said,
it covered dozens of murder trials and hundreds of murder cases,
and you know there was very clear reasonable doubt. You
know that every medical expert said his injuries were not
consistent with being hit by a car that's slammed dunk
and the case right there, that's reasonable doubt if the
jury does its job, and they did.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, they seem like they did. So I want to
talk to you about your newest book. It's called Blood
and Hate, the Marvelous Marvin Hagler Story. And I want
to say that it's been optioned by the actor Sam Rockwell,
which we just saw he just start in The White Lotus.
He was very viral, totally right when did you start
(10:23):
talking to him about the project?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So again, you know, not to sound like Hollywood guy,
but you know, I have agents now, and so when
my new projects are announced that they come out, they
go out to every producer in Hollywood and the town.
And you know, Sam was instantly interested in it, and
they started talking with my reps and next thing you know,
the book was under option and we're developing a film
with Sam and his company. And you know, I think
(10:45):
Sam just recognizes that Marvin's stories is a beautiful story
of friendship and perseverance with his trainers Good He and
Pat Petronelli. It's a story survival and overcoming adversity the
way he came out of Newark, New Jersey and horrible
riots as a young boy, moves to Brockton and takes
on the corrupt boxing industry to this title fight that
(11:06):
I write about in the book. In nineteen eighty and
I think Sam just has a great eye for a
story and he wants to play Goodie Petronelli and I
can say that, yeah, I'm super excited for it. You know,
he's a big boxing fan, as is Pete Burg, you know.
So yeah, I mean it's it's a beautiful story and
it's it's it's a story that I've wanted to tell
for a long time, and now is the time that
I'm finally getting to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So when you're okay, so you when did you finish
the book? Like when did you give it to your publisher?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
That's a good question. I'd like in the late fall,
so and then it just came out this past tuesday.
So I came out in June seventeenth, So.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Did you then give it to Sam? And then?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
So, oh, no, good quest. I understand. Sorry, I know.
So when I sell a book these days, I sell
it based on a proposal, and the proposals, you know,
usually could be seventeen to fifty pages, and that's like
a docum, like an outline of the story and why
it's important and why now, all that sort of stuff.
And that's what I used to for the publishers to
(12:07):
say we want this book. So those proposals are often
what is option. So they optioned the material based off
the proposal, and they know who I am.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So so has he read the book.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Now? Yes? He has now, but he didn't when they
originally optioned it. So interesting, it's an interesting process, but
it happens more and more in Hollywood. Now they're buying
the story.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Okay, so, and you can answer this or not answer this,
but do they give you money up front when they
option it? Do you get a check?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
There's option fees. Yeah, they're not what they used to be,
but they're you know, it's part of the income.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
What's the what's an option fee these days?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I am not getting into that. No, No, I mean, look,
the money is when the movie gets made. You know,
it's really just a holding fee. We hold the rights
so that we can shop it and make a movie,
you know, that sort of thing. But once the movie
gets made, like with Patriots Day, that's when you know
there's actual money involved. And you know, but again it's
not retirement go buy boats and go to Fiji money,
(13:02):
but it's I'm a working writer and it lets me
keep writing, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Oh, of course. But it's a dream to have your
book made into it is.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
It's amazing to me that my first book was made
into a big, huge Hollywood movie that said, you know,
I wish I had written Lord of the Rings of
Star Wars. You know, I didn't want to do a
book about terrorism in the city that I grew up
in and a little boy lost his life. So I'm
proud to have told the story. But it's hard to
be like, oh, that was awesome, you.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Know, No, it's yeah, it's it's always hard. I mean,
these stories are.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So this one, I will be this one. I will
be very proud when we have a premiere, and I'm
going to have a premiere in Brockton for it, because
Marvin Hagler represents so much of the spirit of Brockton,
where I grew up, and I want that to be shared.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Boston Strong was about surviving, It was about survivors. It
was about the grittiness of Bostonians. And now you've shifted
gears to Marvin Hagler, who is also a gritty survivor
of a story that a lot of people don't know about.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, it was a very long, only young boy growing
up in Newark with no father, He had five siblings
living with his mother and they were in the middle
of a really bad neighborhood in Newark. In nineteen sixty seven,
some of the worst riots in American history broke out
in Newark during that summer. It was called the Long
Hot Summer sixty seven and they were literally bullets pinging
off their walls and the kids were hiding on the
floor covering. That's how I opened the book as I
(14:20):
set that scene, and twenty six people died in those riots.
And that's when the mother, Ida May, finally said, you
know what, we're moving out and they moved to Brockton
and that's where his boxing journey started.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, he was a fighter. Now, I want to play
a clip from Joe Rogan, who was a big Hagler fan.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
When I was a kid growing up in Boston, Hagler
was the Middleway champion of the world and I used
to see they used to have video of him running.
They played it on the news. He was running on
the there was the dunes, sand dunes and Katee cot in
the winter, freezing cold with a hoodie on, running screaming
war Way. Oh, it's amazing. Marvin Hagler made you want
to just get out of your house and go running
(14:58):
in the snow.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Okay, I love that great clip. But then when you
open up your book, Dave, the first page is the
photograph that Joe Rogan's talking about.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That's right, yeah, no, it's a very iconic photo and
it's you know, that embodies who Marvin was. And Joe's right.
You know, he he was this guy that it was
him against the world. And he wasn't an insider in boxing,
wasn't Sugar Ray Lenned, he wasn't Muhammad Ali. You know,
he wasn't Jake Paul. You know, he wasn't a media darling.
He was a tough dude who had to fight for
(15:31):
everything he got. And the way he did that was
he isolated himself. He called training camp prison, and he
would go down to Provincetown, to the Provincetown Inn at
the very tip of the cape and run on that
beach by himself or with Goody Petronelli in the snow, rain, sleet,
in the deep sand and work boots. And you know,
you look at his physique and I think it's a
big reason why he was like that.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Who do you think should play him?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So I get that question a lot. So I don't
know if you saw the movie or the TV show
Winning Time that was with It's about the Lakers Showtime Lakers.
John c Riley plays Jerry Buss. There's a young guy
who played Magic Johnson in that, and I tell the
story because he was an unknown and he did an
amazing job. He became Magic Johnson. So we have to
find that guy for Marvin Hagler because you know, this
(16:16):
is not you know, forty year old Marvin Hagler. It's
twenty two to twenty seven year old Marmin Haigler. So
it's going to be a very young new actor, someone
tough and that knows the fight game. So that's up
to Sam. Sam will find the right guy.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I can't wait to see this.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
It's going to be a beautiful movie.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
It really is what keeps drawing you to these kinds
of stories as a writer.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So you mentioned Boston Strong, and we wrote about the survivors.
You know, in Case, I made a conscious choice not
to write about the terrorists as much. You learn a
little bit about them, but we wanted to tell the
survivor stories. And every book I do, whether it's Pete
Frady's or Tom Brady to Flakegate, or the FBI agents
who captured Whitey Bulger or Marvelous Marvin Hagler. I like
to find those people that overcome challenges and they have
(16:59):
a redemption moment where they they finally win, you know,
they overcome. You know we all love Rocky, right, we
all love Rocky movie. People love an underdog and they
love people that succeed against the odds, and that's what
makes great stories.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
To me, I agree, and this is going to be
a great movie. I cannot this is going to be
the modern day Rocky.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Oh. I hope you're right.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I really, I really believe that it's a It's a
great story and it needs to be told. I'm so
happy you wrote the book. Thanks Dave for joining us
on the Lisa's Book Club podcast pick Up Blood and Hate,
The Untold Story of Marvis Marvin Hegler's Battle for Glory
by Dave Wedge. And this was fun.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
This is amazing. Thanks for having me, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I love your club. It's fun.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Thank you.
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