Ep 44 - Special Edition: Molly Whop vs Chuck Powell on 2024 Mariners Season and Beyond.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Boom ver No, Massaco, helor Gon Jays, Penny con Masa
solve Piamas, Steve Sparat, Familia conquerinta Percento, the Desquento oh
In velvete ever Peliculas and Familia Conuna Kalida mantave min Sintetici,
quatronoventeve is luta in Vietna, Massaco Hero Grandeurs, Jays, Penny Vali,

(00:23):
La Pena Opertas, Valdal Novembrance, Alexander Stillo, Lasoftas ex screen
de las cop.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Com.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well, welcome to this special podcast here on Sports Radio
ninety three point three kh A r f M iHeart Seattle. Yes,
it is time for the first of its kind, a
four hour podcast that we are delivering to you right
here at kJ R. I am entitling it the forty
seventh annual. Mariners haven't been invited to the World Series podcast,

(00:55):
so it's a specialty edition. We're going to be hearing
from Steven Seuss, that we're gonna be hearing from Bucky
Jacobson and others. But our first couple of hours are
going to be spent with the guys from Mollywop joining
us here and myself and anders Hurst. As we were
discussing how we were going to do this podcast, we

(01:18):
did actually present it as we need to do Chuck
versus Mollywap. Yes, that's how we will present it because
there are some differing opinions. I do have a feeling
over the course of the next two hours, and this
is the first time that the four of us have
ever had a conversation together about baseball or the Mariners.
I have a feeling we do agree more than we
disagree about the Mariners and their direction. But I think

(01:41):
there are a couple of things that we are going
to vehemently disagree about as we go. So the Mollywop
guys are here, Nathan Bishop, Chris Crawford here as well,
and it's great to have you guys, and it's great
to finally do this format where we get to share
each other's thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, it's exciting to be here. I can just feel
the lack of Pullman energy in this podcast.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
Ah, yes, so feel like success in here, don't.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I don't smell bush Light, I don't smell Puger Gold
and I am just very excited to be talking.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
I would just want to clarify too, really quick before
we get started. I actually think that technically the Manners
have been invited to the World Series forty seven years
in a row. They've just never RSVP. They've turned down
the invitation, got lost in the mail or something.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, they are allowed legally to qualify for the World Series, yes, correct, yeah, yeah,
and they just they haven't gotten there yet. So let's
get things started. And I think there's no better way
to start this than as we get ready to dive
into this for two full hours with this question, what

(02:52):
the fuck is wrong with you too?

Speaker 4 (02:58):
All the time? That's you on the text line every
time we have a show.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Oh, believe me, I get them on the other I
get your fans going that after Bucky and I so
I see the other group if there was ever a
civil war broke out.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
My answer to that, to that question, which I do
actually get in various forms, is hey, man, the Mariners
started at first.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, I'm just back.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
I got to stand up for myself at some point,
and they're the ones that started this whole thing.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Well, what the is wrong with them?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Okay, well let's go there. What is the primary source
for your frustration slash Anger toward this baseball team now
that we're talking about another year of narrowly missing the playoffs,
and Nathan, I'll start with you.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Wow, that's a you said we had two hours, not three.
I think the most frustrating thing for me as a
Mariner fan, and it's somebody who's who's followed this team
really closely in whatever weird capacity modern journalism and media
allows you to say you're covering the team. I've been
kind of covering this team since twenty eleven as a

(04:12):
blogger and podcast or whatever or else you want to, like,
an adjutant of various media platforms. And to me, the
biggest frustration is not the lack of success, because I
do think it's almost endearing in a certain way that
they're the only team that hasn't been able to make
a World Series. Now it's in some ways the most
interesting thing about the team at present, now that their

(04:33):
playoffle streak is gone. I think the thing that's frustrating
for me, and it's not going to be unique to me.
I think it's probably pretty common around those Mariner fans
is it's kind of a twofold thing. It's one the
feeling that there's not a sense of ambition around this organization,
the sense that the way that the last four seasons
have played out is kind of what they're aiming for. That,

(04:58):
you know, winning eighty five to ninety games, whether that
gets you into the back end of a ever expanding
playoff field, or if it gets you a division title
and a really down year in year division, that's great.
That's all we're really looking for. That's very frustrating as
a Mariners fan when you see division rivals like the
Texas Rangers in Houston Astros win World Series after World Series,

(05:21):
sign big free agents, put out top five, top ten payrolls,
and figure out a way to do this within These
are not traditional powers in this sport. The Texas Rangers
and the Houston Astros have been a punchline for a
long time. Before their recent run, they had almost no success.
The Texas Rangers were primarily known for being one strike
away from winning a World Series before Nelson Cruise let

(05:43):
a fly ball get over its head. So the franchise
is unwillingness to show any sort of ambition, and then
that combined with their almost their sense that they know
they can get away with it, I think it'd be
the best way that I could put it, and that
is dipping into a very common complaint, But I think
it is really well personified and encapsulated by Jerry Depoto's

(06:06):
press conference after last season twenty twenty three season. It's
not so much the philosophy of the organization that he espoused,
because I think it's a pretty common one around baseball,
is that he felt so tough one and so well
protected that he could just say it. He could just say,
we're not really trying to win every single game. Our
goal isn't really to do that. We're doing you a

(06:28):
favor by not trying harder to win right now. That
is an incredibly brazen thing to say to the only
fan base has never won a World Series. And the
fact that he felt comfortable saying it, and not only
did he feel comfortable saying it, nothing has happened to
shown that he shouldn't have felt comfortable saying it. He
just got a contract extension. So this feeling of perpetually

(06:49):
being to use one of their terms stuck in the
mud with this organization is probably my biggest frustration. If
they want to try as hard as they possibly can
to win a World Series and lose I'd love them.
I'll be right there to give them a big old
hug and say you're my guys, and I'll stick with
you no matter what. But to tell me that what
you're doing is something that I should be happy with,
that I should be proud of that you're doing me

(07:11):
a favor, it's really insulting and hard to deal with.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah, I think everybody has agreed with that, that that
fifty four percent press conference will live an infamy that
has really not been embraced or accepted by anyone. And
I get it. No ramifications, Chris, I'll give you the
same platform to answer the same question, but I will
just interject that sort of is my impression is that

(07:39):
with Molly wop on Ian's show, that it really does
come a lot down to they're just not financially aggressive enough.
They're not giving enough to this fan base that has
supported them for the most part.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, and you know, we've talked about this a few times,
and of course, you know, being a weekly show, people
seem to remember that negatives more than the positives. When
the Seattle Mariners have done good things, we've been as
quick as anyone to praise them, Like there's been I
love the deadline moves they made. I've loved a few
of the trades that they made the offseason that haven't

(08:12):
worked out. But you know, it's what it comes down to,
is the fact that they have been so unwilling to
move their financial goals while having a flawed roster is
what frustrates me. If the Mariners had a perfectly built
roster and we're only spending seventy five million dollars, you
wouldn't hear me complaining too much. It's just about the

(08:33):
players that they have and the lack of their willingness
to go make aggressive moves to put this team into
world serious contention. And that's my biggest issue with what's
going on with the Seattle Mariners. And Nathan said it,
by the way, I'm used to very long answers from Nathan.
I'm not used to them being that good.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
It is.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
It is nice to hear something great there.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
You get the koug out of here and.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Out.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, it's just beautiful.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
I joked on Twitter when Vanderbilt beats Alabama and the
goalposts were moving that that must have been the Seattle
Mariners because they're very good at moving goalposts. That's my
biggest issue with the Seattle Mariners is their lack of accountability,
their lack of willingness to take any sort of responsibility
for this not being good enough, and the complacency. They

(09:25):
seem to think that we should be thrilled and look,
even going away from the eighty five and or the
comments about fifty four percent, even going away from that stuff,
they seem to think we should be thrilled with the direction.
But I keep going back to Katie Griggs, who you
know is no longer here. The comment she made is
the one I keep sticking with. We're not asking you

(09:47):
to be patient anymore. Okay, it's sounds like you actually
are asking us to be patient, and it kind of
sounds like you are asking us to just kind of
hope that sooner or later this team is going to
get enough one run wins and the pythagor in theorem
going the right way, so that the Seattle Mariners are
going to get that starting rotation into the playoffs and

(10:08):
go win a World Series. Well, that's not good enough
for me. And it's not just about the fact that
they're not willing to have a upper echelon payroll and
nobody's asking him to spend like the Yankees, and no
one's asking him to spend like the Dodgers. I'm asking
them to spend like the Houston Astros and the Texas Rangers.
I'm asking them to be a team that is willing
to make the necessary financial adjustments or do a better

(10:31):
job of player development so I don't have to worry
about this bolt anymore. Do a better job that makes
me not have to point out, you know what, your
flawed roster, your payroll. They can't go hand in hand,
because that's telling me that eighty five and seventy seven
and eighty four and seventy eight and the occasional eighty
eight and seventy four at nineteen seventy two are just

(10:52):
going to be good enough for you. And you know,
I also go back to a lot of people seem
to think that, boy, you you complain now, but you
sure would be complaining if you saw them go sixty
three and ninety nine. You sure would wish for those
eighty five and seventy seven days. And I'm here to
tell you right now, no, I freaking would not. I
will take a World Series ring in a couple of

(11:14):
years of rebuilding or a couple of years of compending
for World Series Championships for a rebuild. I will do
it every time, one hundred thousand percent. Flags fly forever.
It's something I didn't used to really subscribe to. It's
something I subscribe to pretty hard right now. Yeah, sustainability
is cool. You know what's really cool winning a gosh

(11:36):
damn World Series or even going to a World Series,
or even being one game away from winning a World Series,
which is something they've never done as well.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
I'd still be that. I'd rather be the Saint Louis Cardinals, though,
than the Miami Marlins. When you all agree where you're competing.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
At right, I've never had that pizza man that that
pizza is pretty bad. I get what you're saying, like
the food in Miami is pretty No, I totally get that.
I would rather be the same Lewis Cardinals as well.
But the Cardinals make moves to get guys like Paul Golchmid,
and the Cardinals make moves to see what they did
with their rotation when they had their issues. Like the

(12:10):
Cardinals do that stuff. I'm not asking them to be
to Miami are Marlins. I'm not even saying you have
to be the Saint Louis Cardinals. There's a thin line
between those type of issues and I'm not again Yankees
Dodgers ultimately is what people are talking about. We're recording
this right before the World Series is about to start,
and it's one of the most exciting World series I
think I can come up with in recent memory. There

(12:32):
is a thin line between complacency and being good enough,
having average seasons, and also crying poor like the Marlins do.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
And is here as well, and guys skipped you in
the introduction because I've never had to introduce so much
at one time in all of this as well. But
Andrews and I at a lengthy argument on his podcast
just yesterday, and it was about the finances of this organization.
And I would just remind you and not to pick

(13:04):
at anything, but I do. I mean, of the four
of us, I was the low man preseason on what
I thought they were capable of doing this upcoming season.
We had a brief conversation on opening Day down at
Jimmy's and you both had them in the nineties. Andrews
had him in ninety five, I had him in eighty nine.

(13:24):
So I was the lowman, and I don't think a
listener would believe that of the four of us, but
I was the low man with my expectations. My point
is I get your finances. I would I'm the first
guy that's going to applaud every single podcast that we
do in the off season, our Stove podcast, whether it
was Andrews or whether it was Bucky. We go over
every single free agent that's out there, how does it fit?

(13:46):
And we don't put cost. I mean, I want them
to go get some big name free agent out there.
We started every one of our podcasts last year was
showe Aotani. That was the that was the automatic topic
every single podcast, even after he'd signed. And so I
would love I would love to applaud that, but I

(14:06):
think I sort of recognize that's not the organization that
we follow. I don't think they're ever going to be that.
So within the parameters of the expectations that we have
for what ownership's willing to do in the historical cheapness
that they have shown, we were all in agreement that
the team that we saw on paper going into this

(14:29):
past year was good enough to make the playoffs. So
does that not support Chris that maybe the vision is
closer than what you two are giving them credit for
that they even with their financial restrictions, they still seem
to be on the right path. It just isn't resulting

(14:51):
in ninety plus win seasons, and it's maddening to all
of us.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
That's a really good question. And yeah, I did think
this was a playoff team. I didn't think they were
gonna win the division. And you know, I do wonder
how much anger we would have if the Seattle Mariners
would have gotten off to a decent start but not
built a ten game lead in the division, right, Like,
if we're talking about this team just competing for the
wild card all year, I know we're not happy with

(15:17):
the ultimate results, but maybe we're not quite as angry
if we know that this team blows a double digit
lead in spectacular fashion, Like credit to him, it's to
steal the Seinfeld George Costanza. Wasn't even that hard blowing.
It wasn't even that difficult. Yeah, I think that there's
It's it's an interesting thing because I am very frustrated

(15:41):
with Seattle Mariner ownership. I am frustrated with the comments
that are made by to Poto some of the comments
made by Hollander, although very much less to a much
lesser extent, mainly because Hollander doesn't talk as much as
to Poto. I'm okay with the direction of this team
in terms of their ability to recognize talent and especially

(16:04):
to develop pitching, like I don't think is in indeed,
they're really good right now it's developing pitching. They might
be as good as anyone at doing it right now.
But at the same time there has to be accountability
for results. And the idea though that they're on the

(16:25):
right track, and the idea that what's happening is good enough,
I don't think are the same thing. I don't think
it's the same thing to say, Hey, clearly it's not
a team with what they've built with their rotation is
impressive and their bullpen and there are some very talented
position players Julio Rodriguez and cal Raley is a heck

(16:46):
of a core, and you have some other nice Luke
Rayley looked at times like one of the better hitters
in baseball now at our times also looked like one
of the worst hitters in baseball too. It was a
very up and down season for the dude. So there
are things to be happy about, but ultimately, the goal
and the thing that you can't help but go back to,
is how long these people have been in charge, how

(17:09):
long of a leash these guys have been And by
saying and making there's something too about making the decision
to bring to Poto back without talking about bringing to
Poto back. That's extremely frustrating and extremely we know better
than you. We don't have to talk to you about this.
This is the way we go about doing things. And look,

(17:31):
if you think that going eighty four and seventy eight
to eighty six and seventy six is good enough, then
this is gonna be the org for you. You're never
gonna have to worry about too much of that stuff
because they're not gonna bottom out and they're not ever
going to reach the upper echelons of what I believe
should be the ultimate goal here. But I think that

(17:52):
the direction is okay. At some point that direction has
to stop. Your GPS can be telling you that you're
on the right route. At some point you got to
stop and actually find your destination. And the destination should
be at least getting to a World Series or winning
a World series. I think giving ten years of this
front office in this regime is plenty of time, and

(18:14):
the results have just not been good enough.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yeah, I think that. Yes, I mean there is a
big question. Does he know how to finish? Yeah? I
think he knows how to build. I think that the
rebuild that was done was really well done. And even
while competing and playing winning baseball, even though not championship baseball,

(18:38):
He's done it again behind the scenes, and I find
that impressive. But he does have to finish and everybody
has to acknowledge that, and where are the finishing moves?
And I think as I look at Anders and Nathan's
sad faces on our podcast, you know that's the thing
that they've been wondering as they cried tears into their

(18:59):
pillows every night for the last you know, ten years
of their existence.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
You speak the truth.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
My question is is this prod where we headed? I
guess is the question is there is there something more
ahead of us than is what behind? Than what is
behind us with this organization right now, because for a
while now, my skepticism with this organization is that what
they're headed towards is something similar to the last time
the Pittsburgh Pirates were really good when Andrew mcusson was

(19:30):
winning an MVP about ten years ago, and they peaked
right around where the twenty twenty one through twenty twenty
three Seattle Mariners did. It's not a one to one
comparison because then they fell off very sharply after that.
But this is a that's a franchise that was pretty cheap,
pretty traditionally non competitive, that latched on to a wave
of good prospects, good development, and some good fortune and one,

(19:53):
you know er low nineties games for about three seasons
and then just fell back to who they were. And
I think if you're going to start any discussion about
the future here, let's have a very real discussion that
this team has now won fewer games than it did
the season before for the second consecutive season, as their
payroll ranking in the sport continues to rise. The twenty

(20:13):
twenty two Mariners that made the playoffs and broke that
streak that we all love very much, had the twenty
first ranked payroll in baseball. Last year's had the sixteenth.
It's gone up every year since then. So credit to
ownership there for actually spending money. Well guess what the
guys that are responsible for keeping this the flour so
high for this franchise are now going to start getting paid,

(20:34):
and that payroll rank is going to keep going up
and up and up. But it's not going to be
going up and up and up by adding talent from
outside the organization. It's just going to keep holding what
they already have. So and it's not about payroll rank.
I really agree with what Chris said there. I'm not
hung up on payroll as this sign of I don't
need to be affirmed the ownership cares. I don't care

(20:56):
if they're thirtieth, if they're winning the division and contending
for titles, doesn't matter to me whatsoever. It's a whole
separate discussion to talk about the awful financial compensation model
baseball has. The Marens are just participating in the environment
that the league is set. However, there's real concern for
me as to the aptitude, like to your point, Chuck,
the aptitude of this organization's ability to finish a roster.

(21:19):
And it's this massive sample size at this point. Jerry
to Poto has been a gm or President of Baseball
Operations for fifteen years now. In two separate organizations. He
has one division title in which he had the best
player in baseball, have one of his best seasons in
Mike Trout back in LA and has shown through multiple
cycles from the first time he got here in Seattle.

(21:41):
The guys that he was adding to try to add
on to that Robinson Cano, Nelson Cruz, Kyle Sierra Corps
completely bombed time and time again, Mark Zebchenski, Juan Nicasio,
Adam Lynd Dejo League, It goes on and on and on.
Steve Clevenger. Everybody figured out was because he had no
payroll to play with. And then we did the rebuild,

(22:04):
and he did do a good job of stocking that
farm system with talent. And to your point again, Chuck,
he's done a good job rebuilding the farm again. There's
another good wave of talent in the low minors right now.
But this organization cannot put the finishing touches on a
roster and specifically and repeatedly offensively, and that's a huge problem.

(22:25):
They cannot do that. And a whole nother discussion we
could have is not only is it a huge problem now,
but as we see the way that teams are winning
World Series now and the way the sport is going,
starting pitchers are throwing fewer and fewer and fewer innings.
So this idea that the marriage is starting a rotation,
is this great advantage that they have over everybody. It
is great, It's one of the major parts of building

(22:46):
a winner, but is it the most important. I would
argue between the three major portions of a roster right now,
what we've seen in this playoff is that it's having
a great lineup, having a great bullpen, and then having
a starting rotation. So I have real concerns that they've
got better in front of them than they have behind
them at this point.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Nathan Bishop, Chris Crawford, the Mollywop guys, Chuck Powell, we
got anders Hurst as well. We got to get him
in on this conversation. I do want to take a
couple of things and direct it that we're said here
that we didn't quite flush out, but we're going to
continue breaking this down for you. It's the first time
we've ever done this. The forty seventh Annual. Mariners have

(23:25):
been invited but refused the invitation to the World Series
Specialty podcast, and we will continue that on the other side.
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM, Chuck Powell, anders
Hurst and the Mollywop guys Chris Crawford and Nathan Bishop
with you here. It's a specialty podcast, that's right. We

(23:47):
all are a little you know, you know, I usually
dive right into the off season stuff. I think we
needed a little bit of a break, a little bit
of a breather. But we're trying to combine in a
four hour podcast what went wrong this year? Why are
the Mariners not in the playoffs? Why were they not
competing for a World series? And also how do we

(24:09):
change our minds about how this is going to change
going forward. So that's the essence of this four hours together.
And you know, my impression, as we talked about in
the first segment, gentlemen, is that you guys are kind
of hung up on the finance thing. And as I said,
I wish they'd spend more money myself. But I don't
necessarily approve of the way Mariners ownership goes about business,

(24:33):
but I at least recognize it in my analysis that
it's probably not going to change. I don't think they're
going to have I mean, San Diego's owner thought he
was dying, and so he decided to make them a
two hundred and fifty million dollars payroll. We got twenty
six owners to the Mariners, So, you know, I don't
think that we're going to see some you know, final

(24:55):
wish to try to see the Mariners win the World Series.
I don't think that the payroll has gone to change
all that much. I would get want to get your
thoughts because something that has been discussed on our show
all season long is I think that they had a
good enough team to make the playoffs. I think you
guys did as well, and yet it did not happen.

(25:15):
So what went wrong? I Andrews asked me yesterday, what's
the one thing? I think it's only one thing. It
is their offensive philosophy has been flawed for years. Every
year they don't hit until late in the summer. This
year they didn't hit until September. And when you're talking
about missing the playoffs by a game or two back

(25:37):
to back years, little things matter offensive philosophy for an organization.
I can't really speak to it. I'm not an expert.
I'm not there behind the scenes, but I do know
what I sew. It's kind of like what they said
about porn, and that is I can't describe it for you,
but I can recognize it when I see it.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
And the Mariners, that would be some sick king yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
And I recognize they f their offense. Then here we are, Chris, yeah, yeah,
And so you know, I think even a bigger I
think that had good enough team, whatever how much they
spent on this team, this roster, this upcoming year. But
Jerry Depoto is responsible for offensive philosophy, not only coming
up with it, but also the instruction of it, who

(26:24):
and who he hires to make that instruction. If I
were to say the biggest problem with this organization and
the reason that we aren't talking about a third straight
year in the playoffs and contending for the World Series
is a flawed offensive philosophy more than any other subject,
what would you say to that, Nathan.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
Offensive philosophy I could buy as being one of the
major reasons. I think that I would still say the
biggest reason is not necessarily payroll, but just lack of
elite positional talent. But I do think to your point, Chuck,
and we can find common ground, even though it makes
for bad audio. Here, I think that there was more

(27:04):
juice in the barrier than they got out of their
bats this season, and that's before even the mid season
editions of Justin Turner and Randia rose Arena. I think
the fact that this organization cannot figure out how to
identify and bring in a early thirties second base reclamation
project that's not going not only just going to have,

(27:26):
like I don't know, maybe a below average season for them,
but a catastrophic, possibly career ending season with them for
the third straight season, is a huge concern. And then
also to your point, the documentation that we've seen reported
about how hard some of the major guys in this
lineup clashed with that offensive philosophy. And that's the real

(27:46):
interesting question to me moving forward is if they're going
to keep Edgar Martinez in his role or if he's
going to have a similar role, how much of the
offensive improvement that we saw last August was Edgar Martinez's
specific instruction and how much of it was just the
lack because my understanding is that what happened after Scott's
service was fired was Jerry basically just told Edgar do whatever.

(28:08):
I don't care, but I'm going it's not working. Do
something else.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
I think there was a tail tuck between the legs
moment like we've not seen before with Jerry Depoto at
the end of the year. Now, he also hid from
reporters as well because he didn't want to have another
fifty four percent press conference. But I think there was
a notable Nathan admission of you know, I'm ashamed to
admit this. It's not working, and I think it's my fault.

(28:35):
So I'm going to back off and I'm going to
let other people decide how we go through this going forward.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
Well, and it would just make sense too, right. I mean,
this isn't a shot at Jerry. I actually I think
that Jerry Depota is the best GM president of Baseball
operations this organized organization has had since Pat Gillick. So, like,
I give him a lot of crap, and he really
frustrates me a lot. I don't think that he's inept.
I don't think I don't think that he has done
a terrible job here with construction or anything. But as

(29:01):
an ex major league pitcher, that's his background, that's what
he knows, and that's what he understands. And I think
he's also a micromanager and a detailed guy, and that's
not a shot at him, that's just his personality. And
I think that the way the fundamental nature of pitching,
in which you can control so many variables as the
person on the field that holds the ball, is really
well tailored to his skill set. I think he really

(29:24):
struggles with things that are unknowable and things that can
be random, and things that require reaction and quick adaptation,
and that's kind of the nature of hitting. And I
think that as he's tried to drill down and figure
this out, he's just spun his wheels. So to your point,
I actually think that they could rebound next year. There's
a world in which they rebound next year, because I
think it makes this as an experience and moves forward.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, and anders I brought this up Chris to Andrews yesterday.
I think this is the best way to make my point.
The problem with Taoscar Hernandez wasn't that the Mariners were
interested in him. The problem with Taoscar Hernandez wasn't that
they let him go after what they'd seen and didn't

(30:07):
want to pay him what was it, twenty million dollars
for the next year. The problem with taoscar Hernandez is
why was he good before he came here? Why was
he great after he left? What the hell is the
problem with the guy when he's in the Mariners organization
that he can't produce. That's what I mean by there's

(30:29):
something really screwed up about the offensive philosophy and the
instruction that they've been using. And it goes way beyond
payroll or other things that we want to criticize this
organization for.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
I mean, first of all, just don't build a stadium
on an indigenous burial drind. I mean, that is the
ultimate thing that I think that has been the biggest
problem is we got to move. I have a backyard.
We could just move the Mariners over here. They're going
to have to clear out some leaves, and it's.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
A cardinal rule for life. Don't build any lot of a.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Lot of doctors. I'm not you know, JP Crawford might
have to take a few grinders that he doesn't really like. No,
it's it's the fact that they just haven't figured out
how to keep it simple stupid like the fact that
they haven't been able to make their because what their

(31:22):
offensive philosophy is is no different than anybody else. It's
not different than the Yankees or the Dodgers home runs.
If you have some guys who can run, great, that's
cool too. But the ultimate goal is just to get
on base and to not swing at bad pitches. And
when you get your pitch, to hit the crap out
of it, especially in today's day, you're gonna get It's

(31:42):
the old M and M thing. You only get one shot,
you get one pitch in it bat at most that
you're going to be able to mollywop Patt and penny.
There is only going to be that one chance. And
the Mariners did an absolutely abhorrent job of even getting
to that pitch. There was way too much concern about it.
Kind of reminds me of and it's a different player

(32:04):
development system. There were a lot of Dustin Aclees on
the Seattle Mariners this year, a lot of guys who
were not sure really whether or not they should be
taking pitches or being assertive, or whether or not they
really could recognize that spin and if they really had
the ability, and they they messed with Dustin Aclee more
than they messed with even Brandon Morrow, which is saying something.

(32:25):
And this is also aging me a little bit too,
Like there weren't a lot of guys who about Jones?

Speaker 3 (32:30):
How did they handle er Jones?

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Well, well, chuck you you might be aging yourself, chum,
Like I aged myself a little bit. I was talking
about two thousand and six draft, was at the point
what's going on? Yeah, that's the ultimate thing, though, is
that there are too many hitters that just didn't seem
to have a clear plan of attack coming up at

(32:55):
the play. And I thought Julio Rodrinquez was the perfect
example of that last year, like the fact that there
were too many times where he was in between and
you would watch Julio Rodriguez and you know, I watched
him a lot because you know, I do it every
for my living. But there would be a lot of
three two pitch counts. There a lot of counts where
you'd say, oh, this is actually a pretty good at bat,

(33:16):
and then you go look and see, oh he missed
two fastballs down the middle of the fucking plate, or
there are he swung at a pitch a slider that look,
these sweepers are incredible. You're going to strike out in
today's day and age. But there were too many times
where there were pitches that he swung at that were
never strikes to begin with. And some of that's on
Julio Rodriguez, sure, but some of that is on the

(33:37):
ownership group or the ownership group I automatically go to own.
Some of that is on the player development staff to
be like, this is a twenty three year old, why
are we not getting the absolute best out of this guy?
I thought it was true about a lot of hitters.
Though cal Rawley ended up having a fantastic season, you
go back and look, there were some real moments where

(33:59):
cal Riley was not a competent middle of the order
hitter or any trip close to it. The only guy
you can say that had a clear clue what he
wanted to do was probably Victor roeblaz.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Like, but he wasn't tainted by the yeah exactly, Yeah, No,
I mean there's I'm saying it a little bit for
comedic effect, but also if if I'm going to marry
myself to this, this notion that they're at an ability
to construct an offensive philosophy and then instruct it and
then nobody's hitting the entire rosters having a career worst year,

(34:35):
JP Crawford's gone from three seventy five on base to
hitting you know, one ninety the very next year. And
then all of a sudden, you bring in Victor Roeblaze,
who's not even been playing baseball because the Nationals were
you know, benched him and waiving him. And then he
comes in and he starts hitting for the first time

(34:57):
in his career, like he's not worried about a crooked
score affecting his sight lines. He doesn't have Brent Brown
in one ear and Jerry Depoto in the other ear
and confused as to am I supposed to be swinging
at pitches in the strike zone or pitches within the
strike zone? Within the strike zone.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
You know, exactly exactly. There's too much of that. Yeah,
And by the way, I hope Brent Brown has a
great time in Saint Louis despite the fact that they're
pizzas so back, he found a job that quickly is
unbelievable to me.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
They're gonna hit four hundred next year as a team.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
They're gonna hit like four hundred, five hundred and six hundred,
because again Saint Louis is built on a burial ground.
There is just something, honestly, I mean I wish we
had four hours because I could go over like all
of the moments that you could say, hey, maybe this
team is cursed. And the only prison why I don't
like doing that is because when you say stuff like that,

(35:54):
it's almost like giving a pass to like the front
office and stuff like that. But there's no question the
Seattle Mariners have had Charlie Brown with talent type luck
right like where every time something seems like the right decision,
it ends up going not their way. And I think
that's really important to bring up because if you don't,
then you just sound like a one sided person. And

(36:14):
the idea that Nathan and I because we are willing
to be critical the team, not that you're not, obviously,
but the fact that we're willing to be critical. There
seems some people think that we get joy out of this,
we get better ratings and simply Seattle pays us more money.
Don't get us wrong, like when they're no, I'm just
totally kidding about it, But there is there is this idea.

(36:35):
There is this idea that we don't want the team
to be successful, when that's the furthest thing from the truth.
We have been very big supporters of this team when
there has been reasons to be supportive of this team.
But there's no denying that there's been bad luck in
this as well. There's no denying last year involved a
lot of bad luck. There were a lot of one
run losses last year. And is some of that because

(36:56):
of the fact that they had so many one run
wins the previous years, Probably because that's usually how that goes.
A one run game is often a coin flip, and
the Mariners won that coin flip an awful lot, partially
because of a good bullpen, and they didn't have a
good enough bull pen this year. But you have to
at least acknowledge a little bit that some of the
process for the Seattle Mariners has been fine and the
results just have not been the same.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
As the process. Yeah, and I think that's I think
that's absolutely dead on. I mean, they everybody had a
career worst year in their offense, young old, coming off
a good season, coming off a bad season, I mean,
Mitch Carb Yeah, Which we'll get into it in a moment,
all right. I know what I'm talking our next segment
about about Julio a little bit. I got I gotta
get Anders in on this, but let's break real quick

(37:39):
and we'll discuss Julio real quick before the hour comes
to a close, because there are some more topics. There's
a lot to get into. We could do fourteen hours.
The truth be told, it is. It's the Mollywop guys,
It's andrews Hurst. It's Chuck Powell with you. Sports Radio
ninety three point three kh A r f M. Chuck Powell,
Molly oh Anders Hurst with you. It's our special Mariners podcast.

(38:04):
We've never done one like it. Hopefully we'll never do
one again, because that will mean it will be the
first annual. Mariners have accepted the invitation to the World
Series podcast next season, but we shall see. I mean,
there are so many topics to get to you guys.
I mean, we certainly don't even have time in our
two hours together, but let's at least spin anders five

(38:26):
minutes on Julio Rodriguez. Unsightly the disappointment in his season
this past year. It was not that step forward, my goodness.
I was projecting forty home runs out of that guy.
I don't even think he had forty extra base hits
this year. So Julio Rodriguez was in the list of

(38:48):
things that you can come up with that had this
not happened, we would have made the playoffs. Julio is
pretty high on that list. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (38:56):
For me, it was actually number one because when I
asked you when we recorded are one on one, and
you mentioned your offensive philosophy as your number one reason.
I broke it down even further than that. I think,
if Julio forty four plays like forty four, can this
team is a playoff team, and who knows what would
have happened.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
Right.

Speaker 6 (39:12):
I still think he had an amazing year defensively and
that cannot go unnoticed. He is one of the best,
if maybe not, he maybe is the best center fielder
defensively in the game of baseball, and that brings a
lot to the table.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
So that's one of the reasons he still had a four.

Speaker 6 (39:26):
Win season, which is pretty amazing that he did that
considering how bad he was offensively for three quarters of
the year. Now, he did get hot, as Julio always
gets hot in his fashion, at the end of the year,
and it coincided with the firing of Scott Service and
the changing of you know, Edgar Martinez coming in as
the hitting coach. I don't know how much of that is,

(39:46):
like we mentioned last segment, the actual instruction versus it's
just someone else in there that's simplifying everything for it.
So I hope that kind of turns the tides a
little bit for next year. But I think he was
the main reason. He is the most basic thing you
can break down for why this team wasn't in the playoffs,
and he plays like you can. Everything else kind of

(40:08):
gets can get thrown out the window, like he is
the guy that needs to carry this team. And I
think it's a little unfair to ask a twenty three
year old who's one Rookie of the Year already already
got his massive contract. I think it's a little unfair
to ask him to do that. He needs some protection
in the lineup, and that's where he had his most
successful year in twenty twenty two, when he had some

(40:29):
above average hitters that were hitting behind him. So I
think a lot of it has to do with the
pressure he's putting on himself because I know he wants
to and I know how hard he tries and how
hardy works, and sometimes it can be a little too much.
So I really hope that there's some coaching involved with that,
and I just want to see him have a good
year because he's probably my favorite player the Mariners have

(40:51):
had in my lifetime that I can remember watching. And
it's really, really, really frustrating to watch him, especially with.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Runners scor especially with runners and scoring position seemed to
be a big issue. I don't I don't think it's
an age I don't think superstardom is an age restricted thing, though,
I mean, he's We've seen Juan Soto thrive at nineteen now,
granted he was surrounded by more talent ye when he
was with that team, but usually hit the ground. If
you're if you're special, if you're truly cut from a

(41:24):
different cloth, I don't really buy twenty three is being
too young to carry a baseball franchise, and yet they're
paying him, Nathan, They've committed to him like he's going
to be a superstar. You still believe it?

Speaker 4 (41:39):
Yes, that's the binary. That's the simple, the simple coin
flip answer there that I have to give. I do
believe in Julio, and I do think that a lot
of what Andrews says there is accurate. I think that
if he's consistent throughout the entire season. That doesn't mean
that he's the best version of himself for an entire season,
because that player wins the American League MVP, and that

(41:59):
player may very well show up next year who knows.
But if he's just offensively average to above average the
vast majority of the season, this team probably does make
the playoffs. The thing with Julio is that he's going
to need to show me the ability to bounce back offensively.
And that doesn't mean that to be a good player, no, no, no, no,

(42:22):
or even to be worth his contract, because you're talking
about them paying him, well, they're paying him for the
Seattle Mariners, and it's theoretically a half billion dollars. Everybody
likes to talk about that. There's like eighty five different
clauses in there for him to actually paid that amount
of money, and if he actually hits all of them,
it's because he's one of the very best players in baseball.
The Mariners are very well protected from any sort of
risk in Julio Rodriguez's contract. That said, I think the

(42:45):
big concern there is is not whether Julio Rodriguez is
going to be good or not. Because Julio Rodriguez is
already good. The question is will he be like to
your point show, will he be that franchise carrying guy?
And I do agree with you that his age is
not really an an excuse for that, because the best
of the best are great in their early twenties, whether
it's One Soto, whether it's Mike Trout. Now, it's both

(43:08):
a credit and a curse for Julio that those guys
get brought into the comparison. It's a testament to his
ceiling that he gets compared to those guys, And it
cuts both ways because it's not really fair to expect
him to be those guys. And if the Mariners themselves,
I don't know what they expect from him. If that's
what they're building their organization around, is expecting him to

(43:29):
be One Soto and expecting him to be Mike Trout,
that's a them problem and not a Julio Rodriguez problem.
That so it's a complex and nuanced situation in my opinion,
because he's not the problem with this organization, but he
is the player that's most capable of rescuing them from
their problems, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Chris, Yeah, just real quick. I do think that those
are all fair criticisms, and that if Julio Rodriguez would
have played at that seven to eight war type of talent,
and he has that talent, there's no question about that.
Then yeah, the Seattle Mariners are probably playing.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
The Dodgers this weekend.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Yeah, yeah, very very possible. But I will point out,
like I think that a lot of people have poor
memories with baseball and expect guys that they're supposed to
hit like six hundred, seven hundred, eight hundred. I will
point out, in high leverage situations this year, Julio Rodriguez
hit three thirty three ninety three four seventy four with
four homers, and he stole eight bases in the ninth inning.

(44:31):
This year he hit three eighty five four to twenty
nine six forty one. Now, small sample. I'm just saying
that there seems to be this idea that Julio just
never gets it done in high leverage situations. I just
gave you the numbers. That's obviously not true. He had
some massive hits for the Seattle Mariners in twenty twenty four.
The biggest issue is that you took a Nathan nailed

(44:52):
it on the head that you put the expectation that
this was going to be Mike Krout, that this was
going to be Ronald Acuna, that this was going to
be one SOA, well, that's three guys. I can name
thousands of players who are really good players that don't
make that leap until age twenty six, age twenty seven,
and I don't think we talk enough. I'm glad you
brought it up. Anders. His defense is spectacular. It is

(45:14):
absolutely spectacular. And the one thing I want to see
the Seattle Mariners do with Julio Rodriguez is put him
in the best position to succeed. In the best position
for him to succeed is hitting leadoff. Yes, take a
look at the numbers when he is batting first or
leading off an inning compared to anything else. He is
a much more assertive hitter when he's in leadoff. He's

(45:36):
willing to draw those walks. It's not going to be
his strength. This is not going to be a guy
who walks one hundred and thirty hundred and forty times
a year. But he is more assertive. And there is
something about that guy hitting at the top of the
lineup giving you that chance to give you that one
Nothing lead or getting to second base or if he
gets on first base a chance to steal second, and
this chance to steal third as well. I think that's

(45:56):
the biggest thing. There is something about him hitting second
that just doesn't work. Now, look his best season or
his best month that ridiculous August a couple of years
go excuse me. He did hit second quite a bit,
But there is just something about him in that leadoff
spot that I think he enjoys and he puts him
in the best position to succeed.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Now you hit on it in your statement. What I
think is the key question with him, because you're right,
there have been plenty of guys that got to be
very good and maybe even had a great season or
three after the age of twenty seven or five or ten.
But is he very good with sporadic years of greatness

(46:39):
or is he special? And I think I think a
year and a half ago we all were certain he
was going to be special, and now we're all certain
he's very good. But yes, maybe we're questioning whether or
not we've got one of the top five to ten
players in the game for the next ten years.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Just real quick, because I know we're on the top
I'm going to be here, But my biggest question is
not whether Julio Rodriguez has the talent to be there.
It's my question is is the Seattle Mariners are the
player development And sure I want to put some onus
on Julio as well. Do the Seattle Mariners have the
right people in place to take Julio Rodriguez to that
next level. It's not a question for me with Julio.

(47:18):
It's a question of whether or not the Mariners have
the actual structural design in place to put Julio Rodriguez
in that upper echelon category.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
And the players around him too. That's another huge thing.
Just like if you look at one Soto. We just
mentioned that his worst year was when he was playing
for a already out of it Washington Nationals team and
they traded him away and he became a great hitter
once again. So you have to have the players around
you to succeed.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
Well, maybe that is something we will discuss before our
two hour podcasts come to a close, but I do
want to on the other side, I want us to
dig further into Jerry Depoto and whether or not he
should be the leader of this organization. Sports Radio ninety
three point three KJRFM. It is the forty seventh annual.

(48:03):
Mariners haven't been invited to the World Series Specialty podcast. Yes,
there have been some critics of the name, but we're
going to go with it, at least until the end
of the podcast, which will last two hours. My name
is Chuck Powell. I do mornings at Sports Radio ninety
three point three k a r f M, and I

(48:23):
am doing a podcast with the guys that a lot
of our listeners believe are our mortal enemies in the mornings,
the Mollywop guys Nathan Bishop and Chris Crawford and Anders Hurst,
who is also a part of that Mollywop scourge.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
Oh you you flatter me. I'm not a part of
these guys.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Oh you're in there, you're in there. You're contributing to it, Yes,
you will.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
He doesn't watch baseball anymore so, and just to be
the guy who tells him what's going on.

Speaker 5 (48:51):
It is true. Honestly, he texted me, He's like, what
just happens?

Speaker 2 (48:55):
He's intoxicated watching the Colorado Avalanche and you know means too.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Uh yeah, Well, we're not going to discuss today. What's
wrong with Andre Burakowsky. We are going to discuss the
Mariners for four straight hours on this podcast. One more
hour with these fine gentlemen. We've kind of talked about
the finances. I would have loved to, like dug into
that even a little bit further, but there's only so

(49:20):
much time that we have. Jerry Depoto we touched upon,
but I do want to dive a little deeper into
this topic of conversation. I'll just say this because I've
defended him quite a bit. I certainly have defended his rebuild.
I've defended his acumen as a baseball guy. But I
am not opposed to the notion that Jerry Depoto should

(49:44):
be fired after back to back failures. I mean, you
didn't achieve your goal. You didn't even make it into
the playoffs when we were supposed to be talking about
whether or not we have a World Series contender on
our hands. So I am open. I'm open had he
been removed. I think that there would be some justifications
for that. Here's where I probably differ from the three

(50:05):
of you. I think Jerry Depoto's flaws are offensive philosophy.
As we covered in the first hour, stubbornness and arrogance
not to change it until you missed the playoffs two
years in a row. Toxicity within the organization. There is
a toxic element that he brings to this organization. He

(50:26):
rubs people the wrong way and he doesn't think he
needs to change the way that he does things with them.
And then I'm talking about players, I'm talking about coaches.
I'm talking about Scott Service. It was supposed to be
one of his best buddies. I don't think they ended
on good terms. And that was even before Scott had
to read that he was being fired across the scroll
on television. And then the other thing which we did

(50:49):
mention can you finish? You don't have any history of
being able to finish? And are you going to be
able to get the job done? Because we all four
collectively and I think to the fan bases questioning whether
or not you're the right man for that. So those
are the three areas in terms of pitching development. I
don't think there's anybody that comes close to him finding

(51:12):
the talent, drafting the talent, developing the talent, keeping it healthy.
I mean, we're one of one in that category in
all of Major League Baseball. And I don't know. He's
certainly not wholly responsible for that, but he is certainly
significantly responsible for that. I don't think he makes bad trades.
There are very few trades that come across the wire

(51:33):
for me and you guys feel free to disagree where
I'm like, Man, they got screwed over on that one. Yeah,
in the moment, I'm talking about the moment. I'm not
talking about using hindsight in the moment. Yeah, I'm talking
about hindsight. I think he gets pretty creative when he
was given what we heard was financial cap this past offseason,
which he wasn't expecting. Yes, he made a couple of

(51:54):
unpopular moves, but by the end of the off season,
I thought that we had a better team than what
we had the year before. I think he's excellent at drafting. Again,
maybe that's a Scott Hunter category. Uh So, there are
some really excellent things about his baseball acumen that I

(52:17):
think you would miss if he left this organization. So
but but I'm not saying that he's not untouchable at
this point, and I think there is enough evidence to
suggest that he should go. So those are my thoughts. Chris.
We'll start with you this hour, uh, take it whereever
you want to go from there with from those comments,
so when you.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Made that trade thing, Nathan made the face.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
He made a face, made another face. He makes face
you know.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
When you when you ask a dog if they would
like and might have two dogs. So I can spell
it t R E A T. It was like the
cadence of that, but it wasn't the actual word.

Speaker 6 (52:51):
So he's kind of like, huh this side face, Yeah,
like a I've never heard someone say that before.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Let me think about that. Well, I was just following
along with you, and I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
well yeah, play off that then.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah. So I think that Jerry to Poto probably it's
really hard to rape the guy, and because I do
agree that he is the best general manager that they've
had since Pat Gelli, like the best hobo that they've had.
In fact, I think he might be their only Pobo
that they've had. He's a very difficult guy to rate.
And I also think that I don't know if people

(53:32):
understand just how limited Jerry to Poto has been with
some stuff and how close Jerry to Poto from people
that I've talked to, how close he's come to getting
a couple of really big things done that ownership ultimately
put a kibosh to, And some of that includes sho
Heo Tani in the off season, and some of that
includes Jerry to Poto being screwed twice by Joe Hees

(53:55):
sho Heo Tani in decisions because his entire plan was
based on nikle ing show Hey Otani the first time,
and it really looked like that was gonna happen, and
then it didn't. And then it really looked like the
Mariners were going to be a team that was going
to spend a lot of money, and to Poto kind of,
I think planned around that ability to spend a lot
of money, and then they didn't. And I'm not going

(54:18):
to give Jerry Depoto a complete pass because here's what
I ultimately come down to. Is he the right general
manager President of baseball Operations to head honcho, the guy
who ultimately comes down to making the ultimate decisions with
Stanton obviously having to sign off on everything, but that's
what it ultimately comes down to. Is he the right
guy for this ownership group? Is he good enough at

(54:41):
making roster acquisitions, good enough at putting together that final
roster to contend for World championships. I have my doubts.
I have major, major doubts, and my major doubts come
from a decade. It's been a decade of this, and yes,
they did have to do a major overload. And you
know you brought it up earlier, Chuck. I don't think

(55:02):
people realized how screwed they were because of how bad
the Jack Corenzic era ended. Like that farm system was
at the very bottom of baseball. You're still playing, as
much as we want to talk about like free agents
and stuff like that, you still play in Canada basically,
and a lot of these guys don't want to come
to Canada. There is still an issue of a lot

(55:23):
of Dominican players and a lot of players of that
Bill or Bill. That's a horrible thing, you know what
I'm saying. There are lots of Yeah, there are a
lot of players that don't want to come to Seattle.
So there is some of that as well. But ultimately
that means you have to be really really good at trades,
and you have to be really really good at player

(55:43):
development and hire the right staff. Well, this is a
decade now, this is a decade where the very best
you've been is not scoring a run in an eighteen
inning game in the Alds and getting incredibly lucky to
even advance to that round. My humble estimation mainly because
we saw something that would be on Blooper reels forever

(56:04):
if a player didn't get hurt on that. JP Crawford three. Yeah,
and I'm doing the quotation marks there. Ultimately, I don't
know if Jerry to Putto is good enough for what
this he has as his boss, Like, you have to
be as good as the Tampa bay Rays, and no
they're not the Tampa bay Rays, but you have to
be that good, especially in this division, in order to

(56:27):
compete for world championships. So a long winded we in
way of saying, I don't think Jerry to Potto's bad
at his job whatsoever. I don't think Jerry to Putto
is good enough at his job to take the Seattle
Mariners where I want the Seattle Mariners to be. Where
I want the Seattle Mariners to be. Is a perennial contender,
and yeah, willing to take some dips. I saw the

(56:49):
Yankees take dips. I saw the Dodgers. Now the Dodgers
never will again because of the fact that they have
just an unbelievable god level of money. But you're gonna
see dips here and there. I'm okay with the Seattle
Mariners making dips. I'm not okay with them having dips
and never reaching the upper echelon. And I have real
doubts about whether or not Jerry Depoto can be that guy.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
David.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Chris said there.
I think that there's he and he's smarter than I am.
And I say this on art segment on air all
the time. He's handsome, Mary's smarter. He has more connections,
and that's the applicable part here. He has he did
wear in the organizations.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
And he did wear a seahawk hat to a Mariner party.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
Well, yeah, that's you know, you never want to play
the where the bands shirt at their own show. That's that's.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
So uh.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
Anyway, he has better sources than I do, and he
would have better insight as to what has gone on,
what Jerry may or may not have almost done, and
what that looked like and all that. All that said,
I'm not sure if I personally buy, just based on
my limited exposure and my limited knowledge of the sport
that the Seattle Mariners ownership is uniquely awful around major

(58:01):
League Baseball. I'm not saying that that's an argument that
they are good, because I don't think that there's any
argument that the mayor's ownership is what the fans wish.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
That it was.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
However, is is this the cheapest ownership are they?

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Are?

Speaker 4 (58:13):
They making this job so much harder on Jerry than
I don't know the Milwaukee Brewers or Kansas City Royals, Guardians,
any other handful of organizations that seem to have well.
Royals are not a great example, except for the fact
that they made the playoffs after losing one hundred and
six games last year. And so for me, I see

(58:36):
an ownership situation and a geographic location to Chris's point,
that makes this job demand excellence in order to succeed.
And this is probably a long winded way of agreeing
with Chris, but I don't think Jerry overall is an
elite baseball executive. I think that he's fine, and maybe
a touch more than that. I think that the thing

(58:58):
that drives me bananas is a lot of the ways
that I don't think that he's fought that he's good
seem very easily avoidable. And that goes back to your point, Chuck,
about the toxicity aspect and the inability to cultivate relationships,
because when you deal in an environment where every where
you don't have the financial resources and you don't have
the pedigree. Now we're back to moneyball. What's moneyball about?

(59:19):
It's finding inefficiencies in the market. What's a really cheap
thing to do? Build healthy relationships, build quality, respect for
your players and your organization, build an organization that stands
for treating people the right way. And Jerry has utterly
failed at that over and over. And that's not me
saying that that is clearly acknowledged throughout not just this

(59:39):
organization but the sport. There are so many people in
Major League Baseball that find Jerry to Poto detestable and
that's such an easy thing to not have be an
issue here, and that really makes me feel like, not
only do I find that frustrating as a fan who
just doesn't want his organization to be embarrassed on the
national stage every time they're they're president of Baseball operations,

(59:59):
speed it just seems like such an easy thing to
correct for and if you believe that that Justin Hollander
can do essentially the same job that Jerry does. I
don't know Justin, but I know that I've listened to
him talk and he says all the exact same things
that Jerry does, but doesn't want me to doesn't make
me want to put my fist through a wall. So yeah,

(01:00:21):
I just really question whether this is a guy that
that is capable of and at this point, capable of
overcoming himself because he's infamous now, like we talked about
to leade off that show, that fifty four percent thing
is going to be a yoke around his neck for
the rest of his career unless he hoists a trophy.
So I just wonder if there's too much water behind

(01:00:42):
the bridge at this point to even envision him becoming
that elite guy that we want.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Him to be.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Well, I say this out of clarification, though I'm like,
I don't I barely know Jerry Topoto and I really
don't even kind of like him, so mean, I mean,
I don't mislike, but there's nothing that so whenever I
defend him, there's nothing behind it other than me just

(01:01:07):
purely analyzing what I think and I'm going to play
exactly off of what Nathan was talking about, which is
why I kind of jumped in there, Chris, and that
is yeah, and that is that what you described is
why I'd want to keep him. Because there's there's excellence
in some categories, and then there is horrid aspects of

(01:01:30):
his leadership. And to me, those horrid things just sound
so fixable. Hand over the damn offensive philosophy to somebody
that knows what they are doing. Have a better relationship
inside your walls with your players and your coaches, give
a little more effort toward that. Those things sound infinitely fixable.
I'm not sure you can find somebody who's as good

(01:01:53):
at recognizing pitching talent and developing that. I mean, I
go through Major League Baseball. Yankee fans hate Brian Cashman,
Cardinal fans hate John Mozlek, Andrew Friedman's excellent, and the
Dodgers with the Dodgers. But his whole pitching philosophy is
throw as hard as you can every single time, whatever
the pitch is. We don't care if you blow out

(01:02:14):
your elbow. We'll find somebody else. The Giants genius what
was his name, He's already been fired. He was a fraud. Uh.
And so I've got I got a guy right now
running the ship that I know is excellent at about
four or five things that I want my leader of

(01:02:34):
my organization to be excellent at, and the things he's
terrible at. My gosh, fix it. Stop being so arrogant
and so stubborn and fix those holes, because you know,
I think there's enough there, based on what I've seen
and based on what I saw him do in the rebuild,

(01:02:55):
that there's no reason why you can't. You're so close
to being a perennial contender if you can just shore
up some of those obvious holes Chris, and I think
he can. He's capable of doing it, or at least
put somebody there with the balls to tell him stop

(01:03:15):
acting this way or do this or do that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Yeah, you know, my issue there is that what you're
just describing to me is you know, and I agree
wholeheartedly with all of your points. I think Justin Hollander
is that guy. I think Justin Hollander is all of
the strengths of Jerry to Poto without those weaknesses. And look,
I'm a little biased because Justin Hollander was willing to

(01:03:39):
come on the show when I did a much better
job than me and just a much, much much better job.

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
Yes, fill in from yes you always.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Yeah, fill in, come on. Yeah. Let's let's just be
honest here. I carried that show. The ratings are still
whatever they are. I mean they're I guarantee.

Speaker 6 (01:03:54):
Your producer, your producer had a little bit to do
with that. Let's I know, I don't know his name.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Kevin Shockey. Yeah, Kevin Sho did a great job for
me and so, and he was one of the first
people to reach out to me and when my mom
passed and when my stepdad passed. So I have a
little bit of a relationship. Not that I know him
at all. He wouldn't like you. He probably wouldn't recognize
me if I saw him on the street. But just
getting that out of the way, I think Justin Hollander
is that guy. I think Justin Hollander has all of

(01:04:23):
the strengths that you're talking about with Topoto without those weaknesses,
and I would love to see him be that guy
instead of Jerry Topoto. I'm just going to be completely
honest with you. I've seen enough out of Topoto to
know what he is to know that this is not
going to be something. And look, it's great that he
had some revelations towards the end. There. What evidence do

(01:04:46):
we have that he's not going to switch switch right
back to it? What evidence do we have that he's
not going to be stubborn about his roster philosophy and
the construction. And I don't know. I just think Jerry
Poto has shown what he is. I think Justin Hollander
is a better baseball executive than Jerry to Poto, and

(01:05:07):
I think he should be the guy who gets to
make those decisions.

Speaker 6 (01:05:10):
Yeah, let me pop in real quick because I'm going
to actually disagree with both Nathan and Chuck here. How
do we know that it's fixable? Because those things that
you described that just seems like that just seems like
who he is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05:24):
So like as a person like well.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
I want a general manager though that has the ability
to identify talent. I think he does.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Yes, Like, oh, there's no doubt about it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
This is what I even go I would even argue
a little bit on the other side that I think
he has the ability to recognize talent and what could
fit offensively even I do, But why why. I'll tell
you why, and Anders and I. This is what Anders
and I ended up arguing about yesterday. I just have
this as a radio personality. I believe enough in my

(01:05:56):
baseball knowledge, not that I'm an expert, but when I
say I love the Jorge Polanco trade, there is no
reason why this shouldn't work. Yeah, and then it doesn't work.
I'm not going to sit here and say Dopoto's an idiot?
Why did he ever trade for Hora Polonko? Sure, I
was okay with Mitch Garver. I didn't love that, but

(01:06:18):
there's no reason why he should have hit won seventy five.
The point is, Nathan, I don't think it's Jerry identifying
trade guys that we want to go after in trades
or in free agency, and he's failing at that. I
think Mitch Garver and Horay Palanko theoretically should have fit
perfectly with the philosophy of trying to score more runs,

(01:06:41):
put the ball in play more frequently to professional hitters.
It didn't work out, just like Colton Wong didn't work out,
but those moves did not feel terrible at the time.
So it's hard for me, Nathan to go back and say,
what an idiot, Why did you ever trade for Hora Polonko?
He was clearly done.

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
But don't you think after again, to Chris's point, the
amount of sample size we have here now, and when
you keep acquiring similar two to three win talent players
over and over and over again and they almost always fail,
at a certain point, skepticism has to come into the
equation here, where we're not granting the benefit of the

(01:07:23):
doubt here, and we're not just assuming that we're going
to plug these guys in and they're going to replicate
their mid level borderline star talent production. In the case
of Polanco and Garver, I thought they were perfectly adequate acquisitions. However,
there were The interesting thing to me about those two
and kind of the marriers overall, is that all the
guys I thought that could be bad, like Polanco and

(01:07:44):
Garver and Hanneger were bad, but not for the reasons
that I thought, which was that I thought they were
going to be injured all year. Instead they were healthy
and just bad. But whether it's health or its production,
I think that there's been so much of it, going
back to twenty sixteen, where he's hit not no pun
intended there so few times on these offensive acquisitions that

(01:08:06):
unless the guy and this is this kind of brings
it back to the payroll thing. This is why I
get agitated about their unwillingness to target elite offensive players
because it almost dummy proofs it. You know, if you
bring in Wan Soto, he's gonna be Juan Soto. But
if you keep trying to find these marginal editions when
you've shown no ability to do that for a decade,

(01:08:27):
it's hard for me to feel overly enthusiastic or optimistic
when they keep making those kinds of acquisitions.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
But I have just gotten to the point I'm gonna
get it to you real quick, Chris. I'm just not
living in the world where I even think that's even possible.
I'm trying to stay within the parameters that they've given
us on how they are.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
Going, but they can't do it once they have never
done it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Yeah, Wan Soto and show A Otani, that's a panacea.
Those were gonna work. They're gonna work. But I mean,
there were a list of free agents a few years ago,
Marcus Simeon, That's who I wanted. That was my first
guy that would have worked beautifully. You know I wanted
second most when Simeon signed with the Rangers, well, we
got to get Chris Bryant. That would have been the
worst signing ever and it would probably they would have

(01:09:13):
probably not spend another dollar for another decade because look,
we got to pay Chris Bryant. So yeah, it's there.
I think there are very few guys that give you that.
He absolutely takes you over the top, and they're not
going to pay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
For those guys Chris No, And and that's you know,
it's one of those things too, where like it's hard
as a fan to be just like, well, we just
have to accept that, you know, we just have to
take that for the fans, and I recognize that it sucks.
And but at the same time, John Stanton is making
way too much gosh Dan money to ever actually sell

(01:09:49):
the team and to give somebody the chance to actually
spend like a Stephen Cohen, like a like the Philadelphia
Affilies owner who I don't know the name of, which
is a good thing. You shouldn't remember the name of om.
So hopefully you don't know the name because that means
you're not cursing him.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
What my issue has been is that, Yes, those were
great targets I had. I really liked the Mitch Carver signing.
I really liked the Hojrgete Polanco. Addition, I thought they
gave up quite a bit for that trade, and I
but I thought horror Polanco. And by the way Polonko
dealt with injuries and also it's come out that he
dealt with an injury all year and as gonna have
to undergo surgery, I'm gonna be fascinating.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
To see.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
With that, uh situation. But ultimately, like there seems to
be and you know, you were bringing up to Chris Bryant,
the closest that they came to spending massive money in
free agency was Trevor Stort and Trevor story has been
a kind of a disaster for the Boston Red Sox
thus far.

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
And they were.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Robbie Ray, Yes, yeah, and you know now, yeah, and
that's that that that trade is one of my least
favorite that he's made. And not saying something because there
were three trades last off season that I think Jerry
Depoto made that could be just the ultimate example of
why I don't think he's good enough for this organization.
Because the Robbie Ray for Mitchaniger trade failed in spectacular fashion.

(01:11:15):
The Aohennio Suarez trade failed in spectacular fashion. And even
though Jared Klink was more down than up, that trade
is to me the ultimate example of why this ownership
group isn't good enough, because even though Jared Keellink is
a flawed player, probably just a two to two and
a half win player, it's a hell of a lot
more than what you gave up, a hell of a
lot more. And then to give all that up and

(01:11:36):
to not actually spend any gosh damn money with the
contracts that they gave up. That those are three trades
that right there could tell me that Jerry Depoto shouldn't
be here, well I would.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
Cash on that. They they finished about the same payroll.
They That's what's got to be understood about this, the
Suarez trade. The ideal was we got to cut out
strikeouts if they if there was if he was more
valuable on the trade market, you would get more or
on the trade market. Okay, And so you you're told
you don't have the money that you were going to spend.

(01:12:07):
So now you got to figure out, all right, this
was where the creativity came into place. They dumped the
salaries of Suarez, White, Marco Gonzalez, Marco Gonzalez in order
to be able to afford to get Polanco and Garver,
who failed miserably, of course, but that was that was
sort of the reason. This wasn't Robbie Ray for Mitch Hanneger.

(01:12:28):
This was how do we create six million dollars and
get a guy offensively that can play right away versus
a pitcher that we don't need that can't pitch until
July at the earliest. That's that's the reason for it
was all the machinations that went into keep the same payroll,
build your offense the different a different way, put the

(01:12:49):
ball in play more. And the problem was you struck
out even more and were horrible offensively as opposed to
just mediocre. I mean, had they been offensively, we'd be
talking about a playoff team. They were atrocious.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Yeah, yeah, And you know, the September numbers really conflate
how bad that or take away from how bad this
offense was, because they were excellent in September and they
were excellent in you know, ultimately they missed the postseason
by one game. But let's be honest, there was a
feeling that this team was kind of out of it
and there wasn't a lot of whole lot of pressure

(01:13:25):
on this team for the last couple of weeks. And
you know that comes down to a little bit with
offensive philosophy as well, is why did this team have
so much more success? And you know, credit to Edgar,
I guess, But at the same time, I just can't
help but think, if this team, if this front, if
this is what the Mariners are going to be, I

(01:13:47):
need a different person to be in charge of this
ultimate roster. I need somebody who can build a roster
that can be not just consistently good, but consistently great
at times as well. And there's nothing I've seen from
Jerry to Poto thus far that suggests to me that
he can take them into that consistently great moment.

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
We're trying to create payroll for guys like you know,
Polanco and Garbory. We could just not spend five million
dollars on the least your rise, not spend five million
dollars on Ryan Stanik, my very close and good person.
So I mean to like, there's plenty of waste on
this roster outside of these guys that were arguing about
whether the process was sound or not. And that's kind

(01:14:26):
of the whole thing, is that when you are in
the situation that this organization is in, you can't waste
like that. You can't you have to be so good.
And that's more of a criticism of the situation than
it is of Jerry to Potos. So I feel like
we have to grade Jerry on this really hard curve
because the nature of this job is challenging. It's just

(01:14:47):
hard to win here. And maybe that changes if you
win a World Series. I mean, this would be my
whole argument with ownership. If you win a World Series,
maybe it starts getting easier to win future world series
because the people actually want to come here and pay
attention to the team. And look, he you won game,
so you made more money and hey, winning breed success.
Whoever heard about that? So yeah, but until then, there's

(01:15:07):
just too many misses. I mean, look at the guys
that they lost, just I mean, I feel like we
just talked through this whole last offseason that we just
went through in order to almost kind I know you
weren't defending it, Chuck, but it almost just felt like, well,
they had to do all these bad trades so that
then they could bring in the bad free agents that
they brought in, and it's play.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
It's all bad, but that's how it turned out. But again,
I'm we'll go back to what I said at the
beginning of the show. Everybody liked the roster at the
beginning of the year.

Speaker 4 (01:15:34):
Fair, Yes, that's a fair point, so one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
So I look, I get it, and I and I
loved to thought. Let's make that clear though too, like
liked like we talked of you know, Jimmy's on first
right before they we went on, and yeah, we liked
this roster, but we didn't love it. And ultimately, a
guy that's been the general manager for ten years the
ultimate guide decision. I've never loved a Seattle mayn a

(01:15:59):
rock like. I can't say that for any of the
other teams that I follow. I've loved Seattle Seahawk rosters.
I've the cracking are too young for me to put
in that discussion. I've loved Washington Husky roster. I know
that's different, but it's not that different anymore. With nil stuff.
I have should have loved a Seattle Mari and a
roster in a decade. I can't give you one roster

(01:16:21):
that I have loved for the Seattle Mariners. There have
been rosters that I have liked. There have been. And
here's the other thing too, this is an extremely likable team. Yes,
Like there are so many players that are incredibly likable
on this roster, which is why it's frustrating too. So
I liked the Seattle Mariners and I thought that they
were going to be a postseason team, but I didn't
love it. And after ten years, there should be a

(01:16:43):
roster that I love at some point. And I I, yes,
I'm a critic, and a yes, I am willing to
admit that I can be too hard on these guys.
It shouldn't be that hard to build a roster that
I love in a decade.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
Yeah, I haven't loved one either, So just to you know,
just be fair about that. We have the Mallywop guy here,
Chris Crawford and Nathan Bishop. We also got Anders Hurst.
My name is Chuck Powell, Chuck versus Mollywop. We got
a half hour to go here on the on the
podcast and on the radio program We Do Love. I

(01:17:15):
would hope the starting pitching on this team, and you
will have it. It looks like going forward. I do
want to discuss that on the other side on a
lot of different angles. I don't even want to tease it,
because there are a lot of ways to discuss this thing.
We'll do that next. It's Sports Radio ninety three point
three kh A r f M, the forty seventh annual.

(01:17:38):
Mariners haven't been invited to the World Series. Specialty podcast continues.
Mollywop is here. It's Nathan Bishop, It's Chris Crawford. My
name is Chuck Powell anders Hurst here as well. Going forward, guys,
there's a lot to be frustrated about and be angry about.
There is nothing not to like about the Mariners starting pitching,
both how it performed this year, how young it is,

(01:18:01):
how controllable it is, and how healthy they've been able
to keep these five guys that started nearly every game
this year. I mean, it is insane. The Dodgers used
forty seven pitchers this year and I think seventeen different starters.
The Mariners used six plus one start from Jonathan Diaz
for goodness sake this year, and they still did not
make the playoffs despite being so exceptional. So as long

(01:18:25):
as they have this starting pitching going forward, aren't we
all just going to regroup in the spring and feel
very encouraged again and full of hope because if you
can just surround them with any kind of offensive talent,
it feels like they will achieve the playoffs again next year.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Yeah, so there's no reason for concern on paper, But
I'll take you back to two thousand and three, because
you know that was the heyday of Chris Crawford, one
year before he could legally drink, but still found a
way to get it done. The Seattle Mariners had five
guys make all of their starts, and you had to
feel awfully good about a rotation of Jamie Moyer, Ryan Franklin,

(01:19:08):
Joel Piero, Freddy Garcia and Gil Mesh. Anybody remember what
happened the next year to the Seattle Mariners. Now it
wasn't all pitching, but a lot of that team just
completely fell apart. And part of that was because some
of the guys didn't play as well, and some of
that had to do with age, but something that had
to do with some injury stuff and asking your starting

(01:19:28):
rotation to stay healthy is a tough thing, and you know,
we saw it at the end of the year. Luis
Castillo ends up missing time. I wouldn't doubt if there's another,
I'm not rooting for it by any stretch of the imagination.
So there is concern in just the fact that it's
modern time baseball and pitching is going to be something
that's always at least a little influx because of injuries.

(01:19:49):
That being said, on paper, this is the best rotation
in baseball and it's not even close like what you
got from your back end starters in Bryce Miller and
Brian Wu. Those guys ended up being your best artists
down the stretch. Really. I know Brian Wu had some
issues towards the end, but what you got from those
guys was so incredible. And then you add on to
that the development that Logan Gilbert took just the cheer.

(01:20:12):
His secondary stuff has just gotten so much better as
it's gone on. And George Kirby, Yeah, there's going to
be some clunkers because he's as stubborn as Jerry to
Poto and just absolutely refuses to do anything to expand
the strike zone. Yes, that's frustrating. Luis Castillo might have
been your fifth starter, and he had a stretch where
he was among the very best pitchers in baseball, something

(01:20:33):
like thirteen starts in a row of six innings or
two runs or fewer. This rotation is awesome. I wish
there was more depth to it. I'm not a huge
Emerson Hancock guy in terms of him being that next guy,
and I'll be curious to see if he's somebody who's
brought up in trades just as a cheap option for
teams at the back end. But yeah, on paper, this
rotation is as good as any starting pitching in baseball.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
At the risk of being punched in the face by
a guy who's been a Mariner fan a lot longer
than I am. Not one of those guys from that
Freddy Garcia rotation or as good as any of the five.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Oh no, no, by the way, I wouldn't punch in
the face. I would kick and then run. But that's
totally fair. That's totally fair. Jamie Moyer was really freaking good.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
Oh they're all good. They're all good. These guys I
saw five aces by the end of the year this year.
Maybe I drank a little bit too much of the
kool aid, but Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
No, I'm just saying that, like those five that was
the reason that everybody was super excited was you had
five guys who made and it was the first time
he had been done in a very long time. And
then things turn quick went quickly went south. My whole point, though, honestly,
is just that starting pitching and basing it your entire
success on it in the Year of Our Lord twenty

(01:21:52):
twenty five might be a little bit of a mistake
because you just don't know if arms are going to
be able to stay healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
Nathan.

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
Yeah, And I would also say I be terrified to
punch you in the face because I assume that then
Bucky would track me down. And my understanding is that
Bucky already I should already fear Bucky tracking me down.
So that's not going to be happening in the near future.
You know, the discussion around starting pitching, and because I
think that that's there's there's two separate discussions there that

(01:22:19):
we can try. I know, we wily have a ton
of time, but one there's starting pitching, of which the
Seattle Marrion is probably have more and better than pretty
much any other franchise in Major League baseball, which is fantastic.
It's an awesome thing. And I think we've said on
our segment many many times, full credit to the organization,
like they've done this better. They've they've developed pitching and

(01:22:40):
this rotation specifically better than I think anything the Seattle
Marionors have done as an organization since you know, the
heyday of two thousand to two thousand and three. This
has been one of their greatest accomplishments of the last
twenty years. They deserve so many flowers for doing it,
absolutely and it's it's unbelievable. And the thing that's incredible
is is the fact that these guys keep getting better.

(01:23:01):
To your point, Chuck, I kept waiting for Brian wu
and for Bryce Miller to fall apart at the end
of last year, and they just got better as the
season went on, which is just ridiculous because if those
guys are going to be the ones they are going
to take the step up to two and three starters
moving forward. This rotation really is just leaps and bounds
ahead of most of the sport. So that's a fantastic
thing to have in the quiver. And I think as

(01:23:22):
long as they are all healthy to Chris's point, that's
a real knock on wood kind of situation. It gives
this organization an incredibly high floor in a regular season
one hundred and sixty two game schedule. Where I get
more concerned is the bullpen magic seems to be wearing
off with this organization, and the bolten, specifically in high

(01:23:44):
leverage games, as we've seen in this and previous postseasons,
is getting to be more and more of a factor
in games. And it's not just part of that is
that Matt Brash and Gregory Santos got hurt. Can't do
anything about that, But then their attempts to patch that
really did not work very well. With Jimmy Garcia and
again my close personal friend Ryan Stanek and a couple
other guys just really spun their wheels. So I think

(01:24:06):
that it's this great thing to have, but the question
is just is it going to be enough?

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
And I just don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:24:13):
I just don't know, But I love to your point.
If they can just be adequate, all we need is
for your point, these these seemingly good process acquisitions for
guys like Polanco and for Garber, we just need them
to be okay, and this team especially again, I just
don't think the Al West is going to be very
good next year because Houston signaling that they're not going
to do a ton, the Rangers are talking about cutting payroll.

(01:24:35):
It would be hilarious if the A's ended up being
a contender next year for a lot of reasons. And
the Angels are just a tree humorous punching bags. So
you know, we could have this conversation at Jimmy's in
a couple months where I'm talking, hey, man, eighty nine
wins and they're going to win the division. So and
the starting pitching gives them every possibility of getting there, unbelievable,

(01:24:58):
how good they are.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
I want to go around number two quick questions. So obviously,
if I'm going to do this two times, then we
need quick answers on this. I'll start with you, Anders.
Would you trade one of the starters if the Mollywop
gods do not grant the malliwop wish of adding a
Wan Sodo bat in the other season, would you trade
one of your proven big guys. I don't care which

(01:25:20):
one it is in order to get that bat that
they so desperately need.

Speaker 5 (01:25:24):
I would not.

Speaker 6 (01:25:25):
I want to keep the five that we have together,
just the proven track record of the trades hasn't been there,
and the ability to develop the guys once you trade
for them hasn't been there. So I'd rather stick with
what you know. Hopefully some of these editions start to
kind of come back a little bit and kind of
play it by that those standards. I don't think it
would be a big risk for me. I think you

(01:25:47):
got five guys that you know are elite, and I
don't know if you get that return, Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
You'd have to get a Wan Soto type bat. You
would have to get that type of guy to move
one of those five guys. Yeah, I'm sorry to bring
up one Sotos there, but they have two good a
farm system to move one of those five starters, like,
they have legitimate upper echelon talent, especially up the middle.
And some of these guys you're going to have to
trade now while their value is at their highest. So yes,

(01:26:12):
you do have to make trades, because that's just going
to be the way they're going to do it. I
don't think you have to trade one of the starters
to do it because you have so much depth in
your minor league system.

Speaker 4 (01:26:20):
Nathan, No, I don't trust the people that would be
in charge of trading them with getting the kind of
return that would justify getting rid of one of those guys,
So I would not do that trade.

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
Okay, all right? And then the last thing, give me
your off season wish for what you want to have
happen personnel wise, you know, fired to Poto, wherever you
want to go. What is your Nathan will start with you.
What's your off season wish for the Mariners quick answer?

Speaker 4 (01:26:47):
Regardless of what they decide to do with the roster,
I want them to do a full organizational audit and
the kind of introspective perspective that Jerry seem to take
towards the end of last season. I hope that that
really continues and that they really really granularly break down
what it is that they are trying to do on
the offensive side of the ball because it has not
been working. And whatever they do moving forward, I hope

(01:27:07):
it comes from a position of, Hey, maybe we need
to be asking new questions and seeking answers from new people.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
Anders Pon Soto, we just can't escape him.

Speaker 6 (01:27:19):
Kenny cannot fix a lot, Give me a one sot
of Julio Rodvegaz, Victor Robos outfield.

Speaker 5 (01:27:24):
That's so much fun.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
Yeah, all right, Chris, what's your.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Wish sweet release a death thing that I think could
really help out right now?

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
Now, just answer that seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Aggressive, Just be aggressive, show me how much this means
to you, and be aggressive. I don't need it to
be one Soto. I don't need it to be I
do any of these other upper echelons. I'd love it
to be. It'd be great to see. But be aggressive.
Show me that the twenty twenty five season has urgency.
It's all I'm asking is show me the urgency that
you did not show in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
All right, so there you go. We didn't kill each
other yet.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Yeah, I did ask for the sweet release of death. Yeah,
bucking for the zip code. If anybody's looking to beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
Drive a gorgeous place.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
All right, gentlemen, Well, uh, you know, I think you
guys love the off season as much as me, so
I know I know this comes with a little pain
in it. But to enjoy the off season, enjoy the
stove activity. Hopefully we all get what we wish for here.
This offseason from the Mariner has been a very, very
frustrating year, there's no question about it. But continue the

(01:28:37):
excellent work on the Infernest Radio program and we'll do
this again sometime. Sounds good, my friends, Awesome's been a blast,
all right, Nathan Bishop, Chris Crawford, Andershurst. My name is
Chuck Powell. We've got two more hours to go on
our off season podcast for the Mariner Sports Radio ninety
three point three kh A r f M