Ep 45 - 47th Annual "Mariners Weren't Invited to the World Series" Show. - Mariners Weekly with Anderson Hirst

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is a special Sports Radio ninety three point three
KJRFM sports presentation. It's the forty seventh annual Mariners weren't
invited to the World Series specialty podcast show.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Here's your host, Chuck Powell.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Well, welcome to this special podcast here on Sports Radio
ninety three point three khr FM.

Speaker 4 (00:22):
I Heeart Seattle.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, it is time for the first of its kind,
a four hour podcast that we are delivering to you
right here at KJAR. I am entitling it the forty
seventh annual Mariners haven't been invited to the World Series podcast,
so it's a specialty edition. We're going to be airing

(00:44):
from Steven Seuss, so we're going to be airing from
Bucky Jacobson and others. But our first couple of hours
are going to be spent with the guys from Mollywop
joining us here and myself and Anders Hurst. As we
were discussing how we were going to do this podcast,
we did actually present it as we need to do

(01:06):
Chuck versus Molly Wap. Yes, that's how we will present
it because there are some differing opinions. I do have
a feeling over the course of the next two hours
and this is the first time that the four of
us have ever had a conversation together about baseball or
the Mariners.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
I have a.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Feeling we do agree more than we disagree about the
Mariners and their direction. But I think there are a
couple of things that we are going to vehemently disagree
about as we go. So the Mollywop guys are here,
Nathan Bishop, Chris Crawford here as well. And it's great
to have you guys, And it's great to finally do
this format where we get to share each other's thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, it's exciting to be here, and it's I can
just feel the lack of Pullman energy in this podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Ah, yes, feel like success in here.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
I don't smell bush light, I don't smell through the gold,
and I am just very excited to be talking to you.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
I would just want to clarify to really quick before
we get started. I actually think that technically the Manners
have been invited to the World Series forty seven years
in a row.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
They've just never RSVP.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
They've turned down the invitation got lost in the mail
or something.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, they are allowed legally to qualify for the World Series. Yes, correct, Yeah, yeah,
and they just they haven't gotten there yet. So let's
get things started. And I think there's no better way
to start this than as we get ready to dive
into this for two full hours, with this question, what

(02:37):
the fuck is wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Too? All the time you on the text line every
time we have a.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Show, don't believe me.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
I get them on the other I get your fans
going that after Bucky and I, so I see the
other group if there was ever a war broke out.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
My answer to that, to that question, which I do
actually get in various forms, is hey, man, the Mariners
started at first. Yeah, I'm just punching back. I got
to stand up for myself at some point. And they're
the ones that started this whole thing.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, what theck is.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
Wrong with them?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well?

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Okay, well let's go there.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
What is the primary source for your frustration, slash Anger
toward this baseball team now that we're talking about another
year of narrowly missing the playoffs? And Nathan, I'll start
with you.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Wow, that's a you say we had two hours, not three.
I think the most frustrating thing for me as a
Mariner fan and as somebody's who's followed this team really
closely and in whatever weird capacity modern journalism and media
allows you to say you're covering the team. I've been
kind of covering this team since twenty eleven as a

(03:58):
blogger and podcast or whatever else you wanted, like an
adjutant of various media platforms.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
And to me, the.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
Biggest frustration is not the lack of success, because I
do think it's almost endearing in a certain way that
they're the only team that hasn't been able to make
a World Series. Now it's in some ways the most
interesting thing about the team at present, now that their
playoffles streak is gone. I think the thing that's frustrating
for me, and it's not going to be unique to me.
I think it's probably pretty common around those Mariner fans

(04:28):
is it's kind of a twofold thing. It's one the
feeling that there's not a sense of ambition around this organization,
the sense that the way that the last four seasons
have played out is kind of what they're aiming for that,
you know, winning eighty five to ninety games, whether that
gets you into the back end of a ever expanding

(04:50):
playoff field, or if it gets you a division title
and a really down year in year division. That's great,
that's all we're really looking for. That's very frustrating as
a Mariner's when you see division rivals like the Texas
Rangers in Houston Astros win World Series after World Series,
sign big free agents, put out top five, top ten payrolls,
and figure out a way to do this within These

(05:13):
are not traditional powers in this sport. The Texas Rangers
and the Houston Astros have been a punchline for a
long time. Before their recent run, they had almost no success.
The Texas Rangers were primarily known for being one strike
away from winning a World Series before Nelson Cruise let
a fly ball get over its head. So the franchise
is unwillingness to show any sort of ambition, and then

(05:36):
that combined with their almost their sense that they know
they can get away with it. I think it'd be
the best way that I could put it, and that
is dipping into a very common complaint, but I think
it is really well personified and encapsulated by Jerry Depoto's
press conference after last season twenty twenty three season. It's
not so much the philosophy of the organization that he espoused,

(06:01):
because I think it's a pretty common one around baseball,
is that he felt so tough one and so well protected.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
That he could just say it.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
He could just say, we're not really trying to win
every single game.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Our goal isn't really to do that.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
We're doing you a favor by not trying harder to win.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Right now, that.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
Is an incredibly brazen thing to say to the only
fan bases and never won a World Series, And the
fact that he felt comfortable saying it, and not only
did he feel comfortable saying it, nothing has happened to
shown that he shouldn't have felt comfortable saying it. He
just got a contract extension. So this feeling of perpetually
being to use one of their terms stuck in the
mud with this organization is probably my biggest frustration. If

(06:41):
they want to try as hard as they possibly can
to win a World Series and lose, God love him,
I'll be right there to give him a big old
hug and say you're my guys, and I'll stick with
you no matter what. But to tell me that what
you're doing is something that I should be happy with,
that I should be proud of that you're doing me
a favor it's really insulting and hard to deal with.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
I think everybody has agreed with that, that that fifty
four percent press conference will live an infamy that has
really not been embraced or accepted by anyone.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I get it.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
No ramifications, Chris, I'll give you the same platform to
answer the same question, but I will just interject that
sort of is my impression is that with mollywop on
Ian's show, that it really does come a lot down
to they're just not financially aggressive enough. They're not giving
enough to this fan base that has supported them for

(07:35):
the most part.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, and you know, we've talked about this a few times,
and of course, you know, being a weekly show, people
seem to remember the negatives more than the positives. When
the Seattle Mariners have done good things, We've been as
quick as anyone to praise them, like there's been we
I love the deadline moves they made. I've loved a
few of the trades that they made the off season
that haven't worked out. But you know, it's what it

(07:59):
comes down to, is the fact that they have been
so unwilling to move their financial goals while having a
flawed roster. Is what frustrates me. If the Mariners had
a perfectly built roster and we're only spending seventy five
million dollars, you wouldn't hear me complaining too much. It's
just about the players that they have and the lack

(08:21):
of their willingness to go make aggressive moves to put
this team into world serious contention. And that's my biggest
issue with what's going on with the Seattle Mariners. And
Nathan said it, by the way, I'm used to very
long answers from Nathan. I'm not used to them being
that good it is. It is nice to hear something
great there.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
You get the koug out of here and.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
It's just beautiful. You know. I joked on Twitter when
Vanderbilt beats Alabama and the goalposts were moving that that
must have been the Seattle Mariners because they're very good
at moving goalposts. That's my biggest issue with the Seattle
Mariners is there lack of accountability, their lack of willingness
to take any sort of responsibility for this not being

(09:08):
good enough, and the complacency they seem to think that
we should be thrilled and look, even going away from
the eighty five and or the Cobb, it's about fifty
four percent. Even going away from that stuff. They seem
to think we should be thrilled with the direction, But
I keep going back to Katie Griggs, who you know
is no longer here. The comment she made is the

(09:30):
one I keep sticking with. We're not asking you to
be patient anymore. Okay, Its sounds like you actually are
asking us to be patient, and it kind of sounds
like you are asking us to just kind of hope
that sooner or later this team is going to get
enough one run wins and the pythagor in theorem going
the right way so that the Seattle Mariners are going

(09:51):
to get that starting rotation into the playoffs and go
win a World Series. Well, that's not good enough for me.
And it's not just about the fact that they're not
willing to have a upper echelon payroll and nobody's asking
him to spend like the Yankees, and no one's asking
him to spend like the Dodgers. I'm asking him to
spend like the Houston Astros and the Texas Rangers. I'm
asking them to be a team that is willing to

(10:12):
make the necessary financial adjustments or do a better job
of player development, so I don't have to worry about
this both anymore. Do a better job. That makes me
not have to point out, you know what, your flawed roster,
your payroll, they can't go hand in hand, because that's
telling me that eighty five and seventy seven and eighty
four and seventy eight and the occasional eighty eight and

(10:35):
seventy four and nineteen seventy two are just going to
be good enough for you. And you know, I also
go back to a lot of people seem to think that, boy,
you complain now, but you sure would be complaining if
you saw them go sixty three and ninety nine. You
sure would wish for those eighty five and seventy seven days.
And I'm here to tell you right now, no, I

(10:55):
freaking would not. I will take a World Series ring
in a cut, couple of years of rebuilding or a
couple of years of compending for World Series Championships for
a rebuild. I will do it every time, one hundred
thousand percent. Flags fly forever. It's something I didn't used
to really subscribe to. It's something I subscribe to pretty

(11:16):
hard right now. Yeah, sustainability is cool. You know what's
really cool, winning a gosh damn World Series, or even
going to a World Series, or even being one game
away from winning a World Series, which is something they've
never done as well, I'd.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
Still better be I'd rather be the Saint Louis Cardinals, though,
than the Miami Marlins.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
When you all agree where you're competing.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
At, right, I never had that pizza man that that
pizza is pretty bad. I get what you're saying, like
the food in Miami is pretty No, I totally get that.
I would rather be the Saint Lewis Cardinals as well.
But the Cardinals make moves to get guys like Paul Golchmid,
and the Cardinals make moves to see what they did
with their rotation when they had their issues. Like the

(11:55):
Cardinals do that stuff. I'm not asking them to be
to Miami are Marlins. I'm not even saying you have
to be the Saint Louis Cardinals. There's a thin line
between those type of issues and I'm not again Yankees
Dodgers ultimately is what people are talking about. We're recording
this right before the World Series is about to start,
and it's one of the most exciting World series I
think I can come up with in recent memory. There

(12:17):
is a thin line between complacency and being good enough,
having average seasons, and also crying poor like the Marlins do.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Andrew Surst is here as well, and I skipped you
in the introduction, of course, because I've never had to
introduce so much at one time in all of this
as well. But Andrews and I had a lengthy argument
on his podcast just yesterday, and it was about the
finances aspect of this organization. And I would just remind
you and not to pick at anything, but I do.

(12:51):
I mean, of the four of us, I was the
low man preseason on what I thought they were capable
of doing doing this upcoming season. We had a brief
conversation on opening Day down at Jimmy's and you both
had them in the nineties. Andrews had him in ninety five.
I had him in eighty nine. So I was the
low man, and I don't think a listener would believe

(13:13):
that of the four of us, but I was the
low man with my expectations. My point is I get
your finances.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
I would.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
I'm the first guy that's going to applaud every single
podcast that we do in the off season our Stove podcast,
whether it was Andrews or whether it was Bucky, we
go over every single free agent that's out there, how
does it fit?

Speaker 4 (13:31):
And we don't put cost.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
I mean, I want them to go get some big
name free agent out there. We started every one of
our podcasts last year was showe Ao Tani. That was
the That was the automatic topic every single podcast, even
after he'd signed. And so I would love, I would
love to applaud that, but I think I sort of

(13:53):
recognize that's not the organization that we follow. I don't
think they're ever going to be that. So within the
parameters of the expectations that we have for what ownership's
willing to do in the historical cheapness that they have shown,
we were all in agreement that the team that we
saw on paper going into this past year was good

(14:15):
enough to make the playoffs. So does that not support
Chris that maybe the vision is closer than what you
two are giving them credit for that they even with
their financial restrictions, they still seem to be on the
right path. It just isn't resulting in ninety plus win seasons,

(14:39):
and it's maddening to all of us.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
That's a really good question. And yeah, I did think
this was a playoff team. I didn't think they were
going to win the division. And you know, I do
wonder how much anger we would have if the Seattle
Mariners would have gotten off to a decent start but
not built a ten game lead in the division. Right, Like,
if we're talking about this team just compeding for the
wild card all year, I know we're not happy with

(15:03):
the ultimate results, but maybe we're not quite as angry
if we know that this team blows a double digit
lead in spectacular fashion, Like credit to them, it's to
steal the Seinfeld George Costanza. Wasn't even that hard. They're
good at blowing. It wasn't even that difficult. Yeah, I
think that there's it's It's an interesting thing because I

(15:25):
am very frustrated with Seattle Mariner ownership. I am frustrated
with the comments that are made by Depoto, some of
the comments made by Hollander, although very much less to
a much lesser extent, mainly because Hollander doesn't talk as
much as to Poto. I'm okay with the direction of
this team in terms of their ability to recognize talent

(15:49):
and especially to develop pitching, like I don't think is
in ad they're really good right now at developing pitching.
They might be as good as anyone at doing it
right now. But at the same time there has to
be accountability for results. And the idea though that they're

(16:11):
on the right track, and the idea that what's happening
is good enough, I don't think are the same thing.
I don't think it's the same thing to say, hey,
clearly it's not a good team with what they've built
with their rotation is impressive and their bullpen and there
are some very talented position players Julio Rodriguez and cal

(16:31):
Raley is a heck of a corps, and you have
some other nice Luke Rayley looked at times like one
of the better hitters in baseball now at our times
also looked like one of the worst hitters in baseball too.
It was a very up and down season for the dude.
So there are things to be happy about. But ultimately
the goal and the thing that you can't help but
go back to, is how long these people have been

(16:54):
in charge, how long of a leash these guys have
been And by saying and making there's something too about
making the decision to bring to Poto back without talking
about bringing to Poto back. That's extremely frustrating and extremely
we know better than you. We don't have to talk
to you about this. This is the way we go

(17:15):
about doing things. And look, if you think that going
eighty four and seventy eight to eighty six and seventy
six is good enough, then this is gonna be the
org for you. You're never gonna have to worry about
too much of that stuff because they're not gonna bottom
out and they're not ever going to reach the upper
echelons of what I believe should be the ultimate goal here.

(17:36):
But I think that the direction is okay. At some
point that direction has to stop. Your GPS can be
telling you that you're on the right route. At some
point you got to stop and actually find your destination.
And the destination should be at least getting to a
World Series or winning the World Series. I think giving
ten years of this front office and this regime is

(17:59):
plenty of time and the results have just not been
good enough.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, I think that, Yes, I mean there is a
big question. Does he know how to finish?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:08):
I think he knows how to build. I think that
the rebuild that was done was really well done, and
even while competing and playing winning baseball, even though not
championship baseball, he's done it again behind the scenes, and
I find that impressive. But he does have to finish

(18:30):
and everybody has to acknowledge that, and where are the
finishing moves? And I think, as I look at Anders
and Nathan's sad faces on our podcast, you know that's
the thing that they've been wondering as they cried tears
into their pillows every night for the last you know,
ten years.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Of your existence. You speak the truth. My question is
is this prime where we headed? I guess is the
question is there is there some thing more ahead of
us than is what behind? Than what is behind us
with this organization right now, because for a while now,
my skepticism with this organization is that what they're headed

(19:10):
towards is something similar to the last time the Pittsburgh
Pirates were really good when Andrew mccushon was winning an
MVP about ten years ago, and they peaked right around
where the twenty twenty one through twenty twenty three Seattle
Mariners did. It's not a one to one comparison because
then they fell off very sharply after that. But this
is a that's a franchise that was pretty cheap, pretty

(19:31):
traditionally non competitive, that latched on to a wave of
good prospects, good development, and some good fortune and one,
you know er low nineties games for about three seasons
and then just fell back to who they were. And
I think if you're going to start any discussion about
the future here, let's have a very real discussion that
this team has now won fewer games than it did

(19:51):
the season before for the second consecutive season, as their
payroll ranking in the sport continues to rise. The twenty
twenty two Mariners that made the playoffs and broke that
streak that we all love very much, had the twenty
first ranked payroll in baseball. Last year's had the sixteenth.
It's gone up every year since then. So credit to
ownership there for actually spending money. Well, guess what, the

(20:13):
guys that are responsible for keeping this the floor so
high for this franchise are now going to start getting
paid and that payroll rank is going to keep going
up and up and up. But it's not going to
be going up and up and up by adding talent.
From outside. The organization is just going to keep holding
what they already have. So and it's not about payroll rank.

(20:33):
I really agree with what Chris said there. I'm not
hung up on payroll as this sign of I don't
need to be affirmed the ownership cares. I don't care
if they're thirtieth. If they're winning the division and contending
for titles, it doesn't matter to me whatsoever. It's a
whole separate discussion to talk about the awful financial compensation
model baseball has. The Marions are just participating in the
environment that the league has set. However, there's real concern

(20:57):
for me as to the aptitude to your point, Chuck,
the aptitude of this organization's ability to finish a roster,
and it's this massive sample size at this point. Jerry
Depoto has been a GM or president of baseball operations
for fifteen years now in two separate organizations. He has
one division title in which he had the best player

(21:18):
in baseball, have one of his best seasons in Mike
Trout back in LA, and has shown through multiple cycles
from the first time he got here in Seattle, the
guys that he was adding to try to add on
to that, Robinson Cano, Nelson Cruz, Kyle Sierra Corps completely
bombed time and time again, Mark Zebchinski, Juan Nicassio, Adam Lynd,

(21:41):
Dejo Lee, It goes on and on and on, Steve
Clevenger and then everybody figured that was because he had
no payroll to play with. And then we did the rebuild,
and he did do a good job of stocking that
farm system with talent. And to your point again, Chuck,
he's done a good job rebuilding the farm again. There's
another good wave of talent in the low minors right now.
But this organization cannot put the finishing touches on a

(22:05):
roster and specifically and repeatedly offensively, and that's a huge problem.
They cannot do that. And a whole nother discussion we
could have is, not only is it a huge problem now,
but as we see the way that teams are winning
World Series now and the way the sport is going starting,
pitchers are throwing fewer and fewer and fewer innings. So
this idea that the Mariner is starting a rotation is

(22:27):
this great advantage that they have over everybody.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
It is great.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
It's one of the major parts of building a winner,
but is it the most important I would argue between
the three major portions of a roster right now, what
we've seen in this playoff is that it's having a
great lineup, having a great bullpen, and then having a
starting rotation. So I have real concerns that they've got
better in front of them than they have behind them
at this point.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Navid Meiship, Chris Crawford, the Molliwop guys, Chuck Powle, We
got Andersers as well. We got to get him in
on this conversation. I don't want to take a couple
of things and direct it that we're said here that
we didn't quite flush out. But we're going to continue
breaking this down for you. It's the first time we've
ever done this. The forty seventh Annual Mariners have been invited,

(23:11):
but refused the invitation to the World Series Specialty podcast
and we will continue that on the other side. Sports
Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Now back to the forty seventh Annual Mariners weren't invited
to the World Series Specialty podcast show and Chuck Powell
on Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM, Chuck Powell.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
Anders Hurst and the Mollywop guys Chris Crawford and Nathan
Bishop with you here. It's a specialty podcast.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
We all are a little you know, you know, I
usually dive right into the off season stuff. I think
we needed a little bit of a break, a little
bit of a breather, But we're trying to combine that
in a four hour podcast. What went wrong this year?
Or why are the Mariners not in the playoffs? Why
were they not competing for a World series? And also

(24:06):
how do we change our minds about how this is
going to change going forward. So that's the essence of
this four hours together. And you know, my impression, as
we talked about in the first segment, gentlemen, is that
you guys are kind of hung up on the finance thing.
And as I said, I wish they'd spend more money myself.
But I don't necessarily approve of the way Mariners ownership

(24:29):
goes about business, but I at least recognize it in
my analysis that it's probably not going to change.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
I don't think they're going to have I mean.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
San Diego's owner thought he was dying and so he
decided to make them a two hundred and fifty million
dollars payroll. We got twenty six owners to the Mariners,
So you know, I don't think that we're going to
see some you know, final wish to try to see
the Mariners win the World Series. I don't think that
the payroll is going to change all that much. Want

(25:00):
to get your thoughts because something that has been discussed
on our show all season long is I think that
they had a good enough team to make the playoffs.
I think you guys did as well, and yet it
did not happen. So what went wrong? I Andrews asked
me yesterday, what's the one thing? I think it's only
one thing. It is their offensive philosophy has been flawed

(25:23):
for years. Every year they don't hit until late in
the summer. This year they didn't hit until September. And
when you're talking about missing the playoffs by a game
or two back to back years, little things matter offensive
philosophy for an organization.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
I can't really speak to it. I'm not an expert.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
I'm not there behind the scenes, but I do know
what I sew. It's kind of like what they said
about porn, and that is I can't describe it for you,
But I can recognize it when I see it, and like.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
The Mariners, that would be some sick king.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yeah, and I recognize they FD their offense.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Then here we are, Chris.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
And so you know, I think even a bigger I
think that had good enough team, whatever how much they
spent on this team, this roster, this upcoming year. But
Jerry Depoto is responsible for offensive philosophy, not only coming
up with it, but also the instruction of it, who
and who he hires to make that instruction. If I
were to say the biggest problem with this organization and

(26:28):
the reason that we aren't talking about a third straight
year in the playoffs and contending for the World Series
is a flawed offensive philosophy more than any other subject,
what would you say to that, Nathan.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Offensive philosophy I could buy as being one of the
major reasons. I think that I would still say the
biggest reason is not necessarily payroll, but just lack of
elite positional talent. But I do think to your point, Chuck,
and we can find common ground, even though it makes
for bad audio. Here, I think that there was more

(27:02):
juice in the barrier than they got out of their bats.
This season, and that's before even the mid season editions
of Justin Turner and Randya rose Arena. I think the
fact that this organization cannot figure out how to identify
and bring in a early thirties second base reclamation project
that's not going not only just going to have, like

(27:23):
I don't know, maybe a below average season for them,
but a catastrophic, possibly career ending season with them for
the third straight season is a huge concern. And then
also to your point, the documentation that we've seen reported
about how hard some of the major guys in this
lineup clashed with that offensive philosophy, and that's the real

(27:44):
interesting question to me moving forward is if they're going
to keep Edgar Martinez in his role or if he's
going to have a similar role. How much of the
offensive improvement that we saw last August was Edgar Martinez's
specific instruction and how much of it was just the
lack because my understand is that what happened after Scott's
service was fired was Jerry basically just told Edgar do whatever.

(28:06):
I don't care, but I'm going it's not working, do
something else.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
I think there was a tail tuck between the legs
moment like we've not seen before with Jerry Depoto at
the end of the year. Now, he also hid from
reporters as well because he didn't want to have another
fifty four percent press conference. But I think there was
a notable Nathan admission of you know, I'm ashamed to
admit this. It's not working, and I think it's my fault.

(28:32):
So I'm going to back off and I'm going to
let other people decide how we go through this going forward.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
Well, and it would just make sense too, right. I mean,
this isn't a shot at Jerry. I actually I think
that Jerry Depota is the best GM president of Baseball
operations this organized organization has had since Pat Gillick. So, like,
I give him a lot of crap and he really
frustrates me a lot. I don't think that he's inept.
I don't think I don't think that he has done
a terrible job here with roster construction or anything. But

(28:59):
as an ex major league pitcher, that's his background, that's
what he knows and that's what he understands. And I
think he's also a micromanager and a detailed guy. And
that's not a shot at him. That's just his personality,
and I think that the way the fundamental nature of pitching,
in which you can control so many variables as the
person on the field that holds the ball, is really
well tailored to his skill set. I think he really

(29:21):
struggles with things that are unknowable and things that can
be random, and things that require reaction and quick adaptation,
and that's kind of the nature of hitting. And I
think that is he's tried to drill down and figure
this out. He's just spun his wheels. So to your point,
I actually think that they could rebound next year. There's
a world in which they rebound next year, because I
think its a learning experience and moves forward.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, and anders I brought this up Chris to Andrews yesterday.
I think this is the best way to make my point.
The problem with ta Oscar Hernandez wasn't that the Mariners
were interested in him. The problem with Oscar Hernandez wasn't
that they let him go after what they'd seen and

(30:04):
didn't want to pay him, or was it twenty million.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Dollars for the next year.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
The problem with Taoscar Hernandez is why was he good
before he came here? Why was he great after he left.
What the hell is the problem with the guy when
he's in the Mariners organization that he can't produce. That's
what I mean by there's something really screwed up about
the offensive philosophy and the instruction that they've been using.

(30:32):
And it goes way beyond payroll or other things that
we want to criticize this organization for.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
I mean, first of all, just don't build a stadium
on an indigenous burial drived. I mean, that is the
ultimate thing that I think that has been the biggest
problem is we got to move. I have a backyard.
We can just move the Mariners over here. They're going
to have to clear out some leaves, and it's.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
The cardinal rule for life. Don't build anything.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Doctor a lot of I'm not sure you know, JP
Crawford might have to take a few grinders that he
doesn't really like. No, it's the fact that they just
haven't figured out how to keep it simple stupid like
the fact that they haven't been able to make their

(31:18):
because what their offensive philosophy is is no different than
anybody else. It's not different than the Yankees or the Dodgers.
Home runs. If you have some guys who can run great,
that's cool too, for the ultimate goal is just to
get on base and to not swing at bad pitches.
And when you get your pitch, to hit the crap
out of it, especially in today's day, you're gonna get

(31:39):
It's the old M and M thing. You only get
one shot. You will get one pitch in it bat
at most that you're going to be able to mollywop,
patt and penny. There is only going to be that
one chance. And the Mariners did an absolutely abhorrent job
of even getting to that pitch. There was way too
much concern about it. Kind of reminds me of and

(32:01):
it's a different player development system. There were a lot
of Dustin Aclees on the Seattle Mariners this year, a
lot of guys who were not sure really whether or
not they should be taking pitches or being assertive, or
whether or not they really could recognize that spin and
if they really had the ability, and they they messed
with Dustin Acte more than they messed with even Brandon Morrow,

(32:21):
which is saying something and this is also aging me
a little bit too, Like there weren't a lot of
guys who about Jones.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
How did they handle Ropert Jones.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Well, well, Chuck, you you might be aging yourself, chump,
like I aged myself a little bit. I was talking
about two thousand and six draft that was at the point,
what's going on? Yeah, that's the ultimate thing, though, is
that there are too many hitters that just didn't seem
to have a clear plan of attack coming up at

(32:53):
the play. And I thought Julio Rodrinkez was the perfect
example of that last year, like the fact that there
were too many times where he was in between and
you would watch Julio Rodriguez and you know, I watched
him a lot, because you know, I do it every
for my living, but there would be a lot of
three two pitch counts or a lot of counts where
you'd say, oh, this is actually a pretty good at bat,

(33:13):
and then you go look and see, oh he missed
two fastballs down the middle of the fucking plate, yea,
Or or he swung at a pitch a slider that look,
the sweepers are incredible. You're going to strike out in
today's day and age. But there were too many times
where there were pitches that he swung at that were
never strikes to begin with, and some of that's on
Julio Rodriguez, sure, but some of that is on the

(33:34):
ownership group or the ownership I automatically go to owners.
One of that is on the player development staff to
be like, this is a twenty three year old, why
are we not getting the absolute best out of this guy?
I thought it was true about a lot of hitters.
Though cal Raley ended up having a fantastic season, you
go back and look, there were some real moments where

(33:57):
cal Raley was not a competent middle of the order
or any trip close to it. The only guy you
can say that had a clear clue what he wanted
to do was probably Victor.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Roeblass like, but he wasn't tainted by the yeah exactly, Yeah, No,
I mean there's I'm saying it a little bit for
comedic effect, but also if if I'm going to marry
myself to this, this notion that they're at an ability
to construct an offensive philosophy and then instruct it and
then nobody's hitting. The entire rosters having a career worst year.

(34:33):
JP Crawford's gone from three seventy five on base to
hitting you know, one to ninety The very next year,
and then all of a sudden, you bring in Victor Roeblase,
who's not even been playing baseball because the Nationals were
you know, benched him and waiving him. And then he
comes in and he starts hitting for the first time

(34:54):
in his career, like he's not worried about a crooked
scoreboard affecting his sight lines. He doesn't have Brent Brown
in one ear and Jerry Depoto in the other ear
and confused as to am I supposed to be swinging
at pitches in the strike zone or pitches within the
strike zone? Within the strike zone you know.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Exactly exactly. There's too much of that. Yeah, And by
the way, I hope Brent Brown has a great time
in Saint Louis despite the fact that they're pizzas so back,
He's found a job that quickly is unbelievable to me.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
They're gonna hit four hundred next year as a team,
They're gonna hit like four hundred, five hundred, six hundred,
because again, Saint Louis isn't built on a variable ground.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
There is just something, honestly, I mean, I wish we
had four hours because I could go over like all
of the moments that you could say, hey, maybe this
team is cursed. And the only prison why I don't
like doing that is because when you say stuff like that,
it's almost like giving a pass to like the front
office and stuff like that. But there's no question the

(35:56):
Seattle Mariners have had Charlie Brown with talent type luck
right like where every time something seems like the right decision,
it ends up going not their way. And I think
that's really important to bring up because if you don't,
then you just sound like a one sided person. And
the idea that Nathan and I because we are willing
to be critical the team, not that you're not, obviously,

(36:17):
but the fact that we're willing to be critical. There
seems some people think that we get joy out of this,
we get better ratings and simply Seattle pays us more money.
Don't get us wrong, like when they're no, I'm just
totally kidding about that. But there is just there is
this idea, There is this idea that we don't want
the team to be successful, when that's the furthest thing
from the truth. We have been very big supporters of

(36:40):
this team when there has been reasons to be supportive
of this team. But there's no denying that there's been
bad luck in this as well. There's no denying last
year involved a lot of bad luck. There were a
lot of one run losses last year. And is some
of that because of the fact that they had so
many one run wins the previous years, Probably because that's
usually how that goes. A one run game is often
a coin for the Mariners won that coin flip an

(37:02):
awful lot, partially because of a good bullpen, and they
didn't have a good enough bull pen this year. But
you have to at least acknowledge a little bit that
some of the process for the Seattle Mariners has been
fine and the results just have not been the same
as the process.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, and I think that's I think that's absolutely dead on.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
I mean, they.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Everybody had a career whors year in their offense, young old,
coming off a good season, coming off a bad season,
I mean Mitch Garb Yeah, yeah, which we'll get into
in a moment. All right, I know what I'm talking
our next segment about about Julio a little bit. I
got I gotta get Anders in on this. But let's
break real quick and we'll discuss Julio real quick. Before
the hour comes to a close, because there are some

(37:42):
more topics. There's a lot to get into. We could
do fourteen hours. The truth be.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Told it is.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
It's the Molliwop guys, It's andrews Hurst. It's Chuck Powell
with you. Sports Radio ninety three point three kh a RFM.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Now back to the forty seventhan you old Mariners invited
on Sports Radio ninety three point three kJ R film.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Chuck Powell, Mollywop anders Hurst with you. It's our special
Mariners podcast. We've never done one like it. Hopefully we'll
never do one again, because that will mean it will
be the first annual. Mariners have accepted the invitation to
the World Series Podcast next season, but we shall see.

Speaker 4 (38:27):
I mean, there are so many topics to get to,
you guys.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
I mean, we certainly don't even have time in our
two hours together, but let's at least spin anders five
minutes on Julio Rodriguez unsightly the disappointment in his season
this past year. It was not that step forward. My goodness,
I was projecting forty home runs out of that guy.
I don't even think he had forty extra base hits

(38:51):
this year. So Julio Rodriguez was in the list of
things that you can come up with that had this
not happened, we would have made the playoffs. Julio is
pretty high on that list.

Speaker 5 (39:04):
Yeah, for me, it was actual number one because when
I asked you when we recorded our one on one
and you mentioned your offensive philosophy as your number one reason,
I broke it down even further than that. I think
if Julio forty four plays like forty four, can this
team is a playoff team, and who knows what would
have happened.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Right.

Speaker 5 (39:21):
I still think he had an amazing year defensively and
that cannot go unnoticed. He is one of the best,
if maybe not, he maybe is the best center fielder
defensively in the game of baseball, and that brings a
lot to the table. So that's one of the reasons
he still had a four win season, which is pretty
amazing that he did that considering how bad he was
offensively for three quarters of the year. Now, he did

(39:42):
get hot, as Julio always gets hot in his fashion,
at the end of the year, and it coincided with
the firing of Scott Servis and the changing of you know,
Edgar Martinez coming in as the hitting coach. I don't
know how much of that is, like we mentioned last segment,
the actual instruction versus it's just someone elson there that's
simplifying everything for it. So I hope that kind of

(40:04):
turns the tides a little bit for next year. But
I think he was the main reason. He is the
most basic thing you can break down for why this
team wasn't in the playoffs. And if it's he plays
like you can, everything else kind of gets can get
thrown out the window, like he's the guy that needs
to carry this team. And I think it's a little
unfair to ask a twenty three year old who's one

(40:26):
Rookie of the Year already already got his massive contract.
I think it's a little unfair to ask him to
do that. He needs some protection in the lineup, and
that's where he had his most successful year in twenty
twenty two, when he had some above average hitters that
were hitting behind him. So I think a lot of
it has to do with the pressure he's putting on
himself because I know he wants to and I know
how hard he tries and how hardy works, and sometimes

(40:48):
it can be a little too much. So I really
hope that there's some coaching involved with that, and I
just want to see him have a good year because
he's probably my favorite player they have had in my
lifetime that I can remember watching, and it's really, really,
really frustrating to watch him, especially with runners scoring.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Especially with runners and scoring position seemed to be a
big issue. I don't I don't think it's an age
I don't think superstardom is an age restricted thing, though.
I mean, he's We've seen Juan Soto thrive at nineteen now,
granted he was surrounded by more talent ye when he
was with that team, but usually hit the ground. If
you're if you're special, if you're truly cut from a

(41:33):
different cloth, I don't really buy twenty three is being
too young to carry a baseball franchise, and yet they're
paying him, Nathan, They've committed to him like he's going
to be a superstar.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
You still believe it? Yes, that's the binary. That's the simple,
the simple coin flip answer.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
There that I have to give.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
I do believe in Julio, and I do think that
a lot of what Andrews says there is accurate. I
think that if he he's consistent throughout the entire season,
that doesn't mean that he's the best version of himself
for an entire season. Because that player wins the American
League MVP, and that player may very well show up
next year who knows. But if he's just offensively average

(42:15):
too above average the vast majority of the season, this
team probably does make the playoffs. The thing with Julio
is that he's going to need to show me the
ability to bounce back offensively. And that doesn't mean that
to be a good player, no, no, no, no, or even
to be worth his contract, because you're talking about them
paying him, well, they're paying him for the Seattle Mariners,

(42:35):
and it's theoretically a half billion dollars. Everybody likes to
talk about that. There's like eighty five different clauses in
there for him that actually paid that amount of money,
and if he actually hits all of them, it's because
he's one of the very best players in baseball.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
The Mariners are very well.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
Protected from any sort of risk in Julio Rodriguez's contract.
That said, I think the big concern there is not
whether Julio Rodriguez is going to be good or not.
Because Julio Rodriguez is already good. The question is will
he be like to your point show, will he be
that franchise carrying guy?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
And I do.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Agree with you that his age is not really an
excuse an excuse for that, because the best of the
best are great in their early twenties, whether it's One Soto,
whether it's Mike Trout. Now, it's both a credit and
ac curs for Julio that those guys get brought into
the comparison. It's a testament to his ceiling that he
gets compared to those guys. And it cuts both ways

(43:27):
because it's not really fair to expect him to be
those guys. And if the Mariners themselves, I don't know
what they expect from him. If that's what they're building
their organization around, is expecting him to be One Soto
and expecting him to be Mike Trout, that's a them.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Problem and not a Julio Rodriguez problem.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
That so it's a complex and nuanced situation in my opinion,
because he's not the problem with this organization, but he
is the player that's most capable of rescuing them from
their problems, if that makes sense, Chris.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, just real quick. I do think that though those
are all fair criticisms, and that if Julio Rodriguez would
have played at that seven to eight war type of
talent then and he has that talent, there's no question
about that. Then Yeah, the Seattle Mariners are probably playing
the Dodgers this weekend. Yeah, yeah, very very possible. But

(44:20):
I will point out, like I think that a lot
of people have poor memories with baseball and expect guys
that they're supposed to hit like six hundred, seven hundred,
eight hundred. I will point out, in high leverage situations
this year, Julio Rodriguez hit three thirty three ninety three
four seventy four with four homers, and he stole eight
bases in the ninth inning. This year he hit three

(44:41):
eighty five four to twenty nine six forty one. Now,
small sample. I'm just saying that there seems to be
this idea that Julio just never gets it done in
high leverage situations. I just gave you the numbers. That's
obviously not true. He had some massive hits for the
Seattle Mariners in twenty twenty four. The biggest issue is
that you took a I had Nathan nailed it on
the head, that you put the expectation that this was

(45:04):
going to be Mike Krout, that this was going to
be Ronald Acuna, that this was going to be Wan Soto. Well,
that's three guys. I can name thousands of players who
are really good players that don't make that leap until
age twenty six, aged twenty seven, and I don't think
we talk enough. I'm glad you brought it up. Anders.
His defense is spectacular. It is absolutely spectacular. And the

(45:25):
one thing I want to see the Seattle Mariners do
with Julio Rodriguez is put him in the best position
to succeed. And the best position for him to succeed
is hitting leadoff. Yes, take a look at the numbers
when he is batting first or leading off an inning
compared to anything else. He is a much more assertive
hitter when he's in leadoff. He's willing to draw those walks.

(45:46):
It's not going to be his strength. This is not
going to be a guy who walks one hundred and
thirty hundred and forty times a year. But he is
more assertive, and there is something about that guy hitting
at the top of the lineup giving you that chance
to give you that one nothing lead, or getting to
second base, or if he gets on first base a
chance to steal second, and this chance to steal third
as well. I think that's the biggest thing. There is

(46:07):
something about him hitting second that just doesn't work. Now,
look his best season or his best months that ridiculous
August a couple of years go excuse me, he did
hit second quite a bit, But there is just something
about him in that leadoff spot that I think he
enjoys and he puts him in the best position to succeed.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Now you hit on it in your in your statement,
what I think is the key question with him, because
you're right, there have been plenty of guys that got
to be very good and maybe even had a great
season or three after the age of twenty seven or
five or ten. But is he very good with sporadic

(46:47):
years of greatness or is he special? And I think
I think a year and a half ago we all
were certain he was going to be special, and now
we're all certain he's very good. But yes, maybe we're
questioning whether or not we've got one of the top
five to ten players in the game for the next
ten years.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Just real quick, because I know we're on the time
we've be here. But my biggest question is not whether
Julio Rodriguez has the talent to be there. It's my
question is is the Seattle Mariners are the player development
And sure I want to put some onus on Julio
as well, do the Seattle Mariners have the right people
in place to take Julio Rodriguez to that next level.
It's not a question for me with Julio, it's a

(47:28):
question of whether or not the Mariners have the actual
structural design in place to put Julio Rodriguez in that
upper echelon category.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
And the players around him too, that's another huge thing.
Like you look at one Soto. We just mentioned that
his worst year was when he was playing for a
already out of it Washington Nationals team and they traded
him away and he became a great hitter once again.
So you have to have the players around you to succeed.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Well, maybe that is something we will discuss before our
two hour podcasts come to a close, but I do
want to on the other side. I want us to
dig further into Jerry and whether or not he should
be the leader of this organization. Sports Radio ninety three
point three khr FM.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Now back to the forty seventh Annuel Mariners Weren't invited
to the World Series Specialty Podcast show and Chuck Powell
on Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
It is the forty seventh annual Mariners Haven't been invited
to the World Series Specialty Podcast. Yes, there have been
some critics of the name, but we're going to go
with it, at least until the end of the podcast,
which will last two hours.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
My name is Chuck Powell.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I do mornings at Sports Radio ninety three point three
kjr FM, and I am doing a podcast with the
guys that a lot of our listeners believe are our
mortal enemies in the mornings, the Mollywop guys Nathan Bishop
and Chris Crawford and Anders Hurst, who is also a
part of that Mollywop scourge.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
Oh, you flatter me. I'm not a part of these guys.
Oh you're in there, you're in there.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
You're contributing to it, Yes you will.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
He doesn't watch baseball anymore. So andest to be the
guy who tells him what's going on.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
It is true. Honestly he texted me.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
I was like, what, he's intoxicated watching the Colorado Avalanche
and you know means too yeah, yeah, somebody.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Well, we're not going to discuss today what's wrong with
Andre Burakowsky. We are going to discuss the Mariners for
four straight hours on this podcast. One more hour with
these fine gentlemen. We we've kind of talked about the finances.
I would have loved to like dug into that even
a little bit further, but there's only only so much time,
uh that we have. Jerry Depoto we touched upon, but

(49:45):
I do want to dive a little deeper into this
topic of conversation.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
I'll just say this because I've defended him quite a bit.
I certainly have defended his rebuild. I've defended his acumen
as a baseball But I am not opposed to the
notion that Jerry to Poto should be fired after back
to back failures. I mean, you didn't achieve your goal,
you didn't even make it into the playoffs when we

(50:11):
were supposed to be talking about whether or not we
have a World Series contender on our hands. So I
am open. I'm open had he been removed, I think
that there would be some justifications for that. Here's where
I probably differ from the three of you. I think
Jerry Depoto's flaws are offensive philosophy, as we covered in

(50:32):
the first hour, stubbornness and arrogance not to change it
until you missed the.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Playoffs two years in a row.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Toxicity within the organization. There is a toxic element that
he brings to this organization. He rubs people the wrong
way and he doesn't think he needs to change the
way that he does things with them. And then I'm
talking about players, I'm talking about coaches. I'm talking about
Scott Servis. It was supposed to be one of his
best buddies. Think they ended on good terms. And that

(51:01):
was even before Scott had to read that he was
being fired across the scroll on television. And then the
other thing which we did mention can you finish? You
don't have any history of being able to finish? And
are you going to be able to get the job done?
Because we all four collectively and I think most of
the fan base is questioning whether or not you're the

(51:23):
right man for that. So those are the three areas
in terms of the pitching development. I don't think there's
anybody that comes close to him finding the talent, drafting
the talent, developing the talent, keeping it healthy. I mean,
we're one of one in that category in all of
Major League Baseball. And I don't know he's certainly not

(51:44):
wholly responsible for that, but he is certainly significantly responsible
for that. I don't think he makes bad trades. There
are very few trades that come across the wire for
me and you guys feel free to disagree where I'm like, Man,
they got screwed over on that one.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yeah, in the moment.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
I'm talking about the moment. I'm not talking about using
hindsight in the moment. Yeah, I'm talking about hindsight. I
think he gets pretty creative when he was given what
we heard was financial cap this past offseason, which he
wasn't expecting. Yes, he made a couple of unpopular moves,
but by the end of the offseason, I thought that

(52:21):
we had a better team than what we had the
year before. I think he's excellent at drafting. Again, maybe
that's a Scott Hunter category. So there are some really
excellent things about his baseball acumen that I think you
would miss if he left this organization. So but but

(52:43):
I'm not saying that he's not untouchable at this point,
and I think there is enough evidence to suggest that
he should go.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
So those are my thoughts, Chris. We'll start with you this.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Hour, take it whereever you want to go from there
with from those comments.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
So when you made that trade thing, Nathan made the face.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Face made another face.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
He makes face when you know, when you when you
ask a dog if they would like and might have
two dogs. So I'm gonna spell it t R E
A T. It was like the cadence of that, but
it wasn't the actual words.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
So he's kind of like, huh yeah, like I've never
heard someone say that before.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Let me think about that.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Oh I was just following along with you, and I
was like, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Yes, yes, well yeah, play off that then. Yeah. So
I think that Jerry to Poto probably it's really hard
to rap the guy, and because I do agree that
he is the best general manager that they've had since
Pat Gell, like the best Pobo that they've had. In fact,

(53:45):
I think he might be their only Pobo that they've had.
He's a very difficult guy to rate. And I also
think that I don't know if people understand just how
limited Jerry to Poto has been with some stuff, and
how close Jerry to Poto from people that I've talked to,
how close he's come to getting a couple of really
big things done that ownership ultimately put a kibosh to.

(54:07):
And some of that includes sho Heyo Tani in the offseason,
and some of that includes Jerry Depoto being screwed twice
by Joe Hees sho Heyo Tani in decisions because his
entire plan was based on acquiring show Heyotani the first time,
and it really looked like that was gonna happen, and
then it didn't. And then it really looked like the

(54:28):
Mariners were going to be a team that was going
to spend a lot of money, and to Poto kind
of I think planned around that ability to spend a
lot of money, and then they didn't. And I'm not
going to give Jerry Depoto a complete pass because here's
what I ultimately come down to, is he the right
general manager president of baseball operations to head Haunchho, the

(54:49):
guy who ultimately comes down to making the ultimate decisions,
with Stanton obviously having to sign off on everything, but
that's what it ultimately comes down to. Is he the
right guy for this ownership group. Is he good enough
at making roster acquisitions, good enough at putting together that
final roster to contend for world championships. I have my doubts.

(55:11):
I have major, major doubts, and my major doubts come
from a decade. It's been a decade of this and yes,
they did have to do a major overload, and you
know you brought it up earlier, Chuck. I don't think
people realized how screwed they were because of how bad
the Jack Creenzic era ended. Like that farm system was
at the very bottom of baseball. You're still playing, as

(55:32):
much as we want to talk about like free agents
and stuff like that, you still play in Canada basically,
and a lot of these guys don't want to come
to Canada. There is still an issue of a lot
of Dominican players and a lot of players of that
Bill or Bill that's a horrible thing, you know what
I'm saying. There are lots of Yeah, there are a

(55:54):
lot of players that don't want to come to Seattle,
So there is some of that as well, But ultimately
that means you have to be really really good at trades,
and you have to be really really good at player
development and highre the right staff. Well, this is a decade, now,
this is a decade where the very best you've been
is not scoring a run in an eighteen inning game

(56:15):
in the Alds and getting incredibly lucky to even advance
to that round. In my humble estimation, mainly because we
saw something that would be on blooper reels forever if
a player didn't get hurt on that. JB. Crawford to runner, Yeah,
and I'm doing the quotation marks there. Ultimately, I don't
know if Jerry to Putto is good enough for what

(56:36):
he has as his boss. Like you have to be
as good as the Tampa Bay Race, and no they're
not the Tampa Bay Race, but you have to be
that good, especially in this division, in order to compete
for world championships. So a long winded we in way
of saying, I don't think Jerry Depoto's bad at his
job whatsoever. I don't think Jerry to Putto is good

(56:58):
enough at his job to take the Seattle Mariners. Where
I want the Seattle Mariners to be. Where I want
the Seattle Mariners to be is a perennial contender, and yeah,
willing to take some dips. I saw the Yankees take dips.
I saw the Dodgers. Now, the Dodgers never will again
because of the fact that they have just an unbelievable
god level of money. But you're gonna see dips here

(57:20):
and there. I'm okay with the Seattle Mariners making dips.
I'm not okay with them having dips and never reaching
the upper echelon. And I have real doubts about whether
or not Jerry Depoto can be that guy.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Chris said there.
I think that there is he and he's smarter than
I am. And I say this on art segment on
air all the time. He's handsome, Mary's smarter. He has
more connections and that's the applicable part here. He has
in the organizations. And he did wear a Seahawk cat
to a Mariner party. Well, yeah, you know, you never

(57:54):
want to play the where the band's shirt at their
own show.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
That's that's so uh.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Anyway, he has better sources than I do, and he
would have better insight as to what has gone on
and what Jerry may or may.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Not have almost done and what that looked like and
all that.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
All that said, I'm not sure if I personally buy,
just based on my limited exposure and my limited knowledge
of the sport, that the Seattle Mariners ownership is uniquely
awful around Major League Baseball. I'm not saying that that's
an argument that they are good, because I don't think
that there's any argument that the mayor's ownership is what
the fans wish that it was. However, is is this

(58:33):
the cheapest ownership are they? Are they making this job
so much harder on Jerry than I don't know, the
Milwaukee Brewers or you know, Kansas City Royals, Guardians, any
other handful of organizations this seemed to have. Well, Royals
are not a great example, except for the fact that
they made the playoffs after losing one hundred and six
games last year. And so for me, I see an

(58:57):
ownership situation and a geographical okay to Chris's point, that
makes this job demand excellence in order to succeed. And
this is probably a long winded way of agreeing with Chris,
but I don't think Jerry overall is an elite baseball executive.
I think that he's fine, and maybe a touch more
than that. I think that the thing that drives me

(59:20):
bananas is a lot of the ways that I don't
think that's that he's good seem very easily avoidable. And
that goes back to your point, Chuck, about the toxicity
aspect and the inability to cultivate relationships, because when you
deal in an environment where everywhere you don't have the
financial resources and you don't have the pedigree. Now we're
back to moneyball. What's moneyball about? It's finding inefficiencies in

(59:41):
the market. What's a really cheap thing to do? Build
healthy relationships, build quality, respect for your players and your organization,
build an organization that stands for treating people the right way.
And Jerry has utterly failed at that over and over.
And that's not me saying that that is clearly acknowledged
throughout just this organization, but the sport. There are so

(01:00:02):
many people in Major League Baseball that find Jerry to
Poto detestable and that's such an easy thing to not
have be an issue here, and that really makes me
feel like, not only do I find that frustrating as
a fan who just doesn't want his organization to be
embarrassed on the national stage every time they're president of
Baseball Operation speaks, it just seems like such an easy

(01:00:23):
thing to correct for. And if you believe that that
Justin Hollander can do essentially the same job that Jerry does.
I don't know Justin, but I know that I've listened
to him talk and he says all the exact same
things that Jerry does, but doesn't want me doesn't make
me want to put my.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Fist through a wall.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
So yeah, I just really question whether this is a
guy that that is capable of and then at this point,
capable of overcoming himself because he's infamous now, like we
talked to him to lead off that show, that fifty
four percent thing is going to be a yoke around
his neck for the rest of his career.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Unless he hoists a trophy.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
So I just wonder if there's too much water behind
the bridge at this point to even envision him becoming
that elite guy that we want him to be.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Well, I say this out of clarification, though I'm like,
I don't I barely know Jerry Depoto, and I really
don't even kind of like him, so I mean, I mean,
I don't dislike him, but there's nothing that I mean,
So whenever I defend him, there's nothing behind it other
than me just purely analyzing what I think. And I'm

(01:01:30):
going to play exactly off of what Nathan was talking about,
which is why I kind of jumped in there. Chris,
and that is yeah, and that is that what you
described is why I'd want to keep him, because there's
there's excellence in some categories, and then there is horrid

(01:01:50):
aspects of his leadership. And to me, those horrid things
just sound so fixable. Hand over the damn offensive philosophy.
As somebody that knows what they are doing, have a
better relationship inside your walls with your players and your coaches,
give a little more effort toward that, those things sound
infinitely fixable. I'm not sure you can find somebody who's

(01:02:13):
as good at recognizing pitching talent and developing that. I mean,
I go through Major League Baseball, Yankee fans hate Brian Cashman,
Cardinal fans hate John Mozlek, Andrew Friedman's excellent, and the
Dodgers with the Dodgers. But his whole pitching philosophy is
throw as hard as you can every single time, whatever
the pitch is. We don't care if you blow out

(01:02:35):
your elbow. We'll find somebody else. The Giants Genius what
was his name, he's already been fired.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
He was a fraud.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
And so I got a guy right now running the
ship that I know is excellent at about four or
five things that I want my leader of my organization
to be excellent at, and the things he's terrible at.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
Mike, Gosh, fix it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Stop being so arrogant and so stubborn, and yeah, fix
those holes, because you know, I think there's enough there
based on what I've seen and based on what I
saw him do in the rebuild, that there's no reason
why you can't. You're so close to being a perennial

(01:03:23):
contender if you can just shore up some of those
obvious holes, Chris, and I.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Think he can.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
He's capable of doing it, or at least put somebody
there with the balls to tell him stop acting this way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Or do this or do that. Yeah, you know, my
issue there is that what you're just describing to me
is you know, and I agree wholeheartedly with all of
your points. I think Justin Hollander is that guy. I
think Justin Hollander is all of the strengths of Jerry
Depoto without those weaknesses. And look, I'm a little biased

(01:03:58):
because Justin Hollander was willing to come on the show
when I did a much better job than me, and
just a much, much much better job.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
Yes, yes, you always.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Yes, fill in, come on. Yeah, Let's let's just be
honest here. I carried that show. The ratings are still
whatever they are. I mean they're I guarantee you.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
Your producer had a little bit to do with that.
Let's Oh, I don't know. I don't know his name.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Kevin Shockey. Yeah, Kevin shot did a great job for
me and no so and he was one of the
first people to reach out to me and when my
mom passed and when my stepdad passed, So I have
a little bit of a relationship. Not that I know
him at all. He wouldn't like you. He probably wouldn't
recognize me if I saw him on the street. But
just getting that out of the way, I think Justin
Hollander is that guy. I think Justin Hollander has all

(01:04:44):
of the strengths that you're talking about with the Poto
without those weaknesses, and I would love to see him
be that guy instead of Jerry Topoto. I'm just gonna
be completely honest with you. I've seen enough out of
to Poto to know what he is to know that
this is not going to be something. And look, it's
great that he had some revelations towards the end there.

(01:05:06):
What evidence do we have that he's not going to
switch switch right back to it? What evidence do we
have that he's not going to be stubborn about his
roster philosophy and the construction. And I don't know. I
just think Jerry to Poto has shown what he is.
I think Justin Hollander is a better baseball executive than

(01:05:27):
Jerry to Poto, and I think he should be the
guy who gets to make those decisions.

Speaker 5 (01:05:31):
Yeah, let me pop in real quick because I'm going
to actually disagree with both Nathan Anschuk here. How do
we know that it's fixable because those things that you described.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
That just seems like that just seems like who he is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
So like as a person like well.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
I want a general manager though, that has the ability
to identify talent I think he does.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Yes, Oh, there's no doubt about it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
This is what I even go I would even argue
a little bit on the other side that I think
he has the ability to recognize talent and what could
fit offensively.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
Even I do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
But why why? I'll tell you why, and Anders and I.
This is what Anders and I ended up arguing about yesterday.
I just have this as a radio personality. I believe
enough in my baseball knowledge, not that I'm an expert,
but when I say I love the Jorge Polanco trade,
there is no reason why this shouldn't work. Yeah, and

(01:06:26):
then it doesn't work. I'm not going to sit here
and say Dopoto's an idiot? Why did he ever trade
for Hora Polonko. Sure, I was okay with Mitch Garver.
I didn't love that, but there's no reason why he
should have hit one seventy five. The point is, Nathan,
I don't think it's Jerry identifying trade guys that we

(01:06:49):
want to go after in trades or in free agency,
and he's failing at that. I think Mitch Garver and
Hora Palanco theoretically should have fit perfectly with the fullilosophy
of trying to score more runs, put the ball in
play more frequently, two professional hitters. It didn't work out,
just like Colton Wong didn't work out, But those moves

(01:07:10):
did not feel terrible at the time. So it's hard
for me, Nathan to go back and say, what an idiot,
why did you ever trade Forjre Polonko? He was clearly done.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
But don't you think after again, to Chris's point, the
amount of sample size we have here now, and when
you keep acquiring similar two to three win talent players
over and over and over again and they almost always fail,
at a certain point, skepticism has to come into the
equation here, where we're not granting the benefit of the

(01:07:44):
doubt here, and we're not just assuming that we're going
to plug these guys in and they're going to replicate
their mid level borderline star talent production. In the case
of Polanco and Garver, I thought they were perfectly adequate acquisitions. However,
there were The interesting thing to me about two and
kind of the Marriers overall is that all the guys
I thought that could be bad, like Polanco and Garver

(01:08:05):
and Hanneger, were bad, but not for the reasons that
I thought, which was that I thought they were gonna
be injured all year. Instead they were healthy and just bad.
But whether it's health or its production, I think that
there's been so much of it going back to twenty
sixteen where he's hit not no pun intended. There so
few times on these offensive acquisitions that unless the guy

(01:08:28):
and this is this kind of brings it back to
the payroll thing. This is why I get agitated about
their unwillingness to target elite offensive players because it almost
dummy proofs it. You know, if you bring in Wan Soto,
he's gonna be Juan Soto. But if you keep trying
to find these marginal additions when you've shown no ability
to do that for a decade, it's hard for me

(01:08:50):
to feel overly enthusiastic or optimistic when they keep making
those kinds of acquisitions.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
But I have just gotten to the point. I'm going
to get it to you real quick, Chris. I'm just
not living in the world where I even think that's
even possible. I'm trying to stay within the parameters that
they've given us on how they are going to operate.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
They can't do it one, they have never done it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
Yeah, Wan Soto and show a Otani. That's a panacea.
Those were gonna work. They're gonna work. We're going to
continue breaking this down for you. It's the first time
we've ever done this. The forty seventh Annual Mariners have
been invited but refused the invitation to the World Series
Specialty podcast and we will continue that on the other side.

(01:09:31):
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Now back to the forty seventh Annual Mariners weren't invited

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
Chuck Powell, Anders Hurst and the Mollywop guys Chris Crawford
and Nathan Bishop with you here. It's a specialty podcast.
I usually dive right into the off season stuff. I
think we needed a little bit of a break, a
little bit of a breather. What went wrong this year?
Why are the Mariners not in the playoffs? Why were
they not competing for a World Series? And also how

(01:10:12):
do we change our minds about how this is going
to change going forward. So that's the essence of this.
But I mean, there were a list of free agents
a few years ago. Marcus Simeon. That's who I wanted.
That was my first guy. That would have worked beautifully,
you know, I wanted second most. When Simeon signed with
the Rangers, well we got to get Chris Bryant. That
would have been the worst signing ever and it would

(01:10:32):
probably they would have probably not spend another dollar for another.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Decade because Luke, we gotta pay Chris Bryant.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
So yeah, it's there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
I think there are very few guys that give you that.
He absolutely takes you over the top, and they're not
going to pay for those guys Chris No.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
And that's you know, it's one of those things too,
where like it's hard as a fan to be just like, well,
we just have to accept that, you know, we just
have to take that. I recognize that it sucks, and
but at the same time, John Stanton is making way
too much gosh damn money to ever actually sell the
team and to give somebody the chance to actually spend

(01:11:13):
like a Stephen Cohen, like a like the Philadelphia Afillies
owner who I don't know the name of, which is
a good thing. You shouldn't remember the name of ours.
So hopefully you don't know the name because that means
you're not cursing him. Uh. What my issue has been
is that, yes, those were great targets I had. I
really liked the Mitch Carver signing. I really liked the
Horgete Polanco. Addition, I thought they gave up quite a

(01:11:36):
bit for that trade, and I but I thought Horry
Polanco and by the way, Polonko dealt with injuries and
also it's come out that he dealt with an injury
all year and as gold I have to undergo surgery.
I'm gonna be fascinating.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
To see.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
With that, uh situation. But ultimately, like there seems to
be and you know, you were bringing up the Chris Bryant.
The closest that they came to spending massive money in
free agency was Trevor Stort and Trevor story has been
a kind of a disaster for the Boston Red talks thus.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
Far, and they were and that they end up with
Robbie Ray.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Yes, yeah, and you know, yeah, and that's that that
that trade is one of my least favorite that he's made.
And that's saying something because there were three trades last
off season that I think Jerry Depoto made that could
be just the ultimate example of why I don't think
he's good enough for this organization because the Robbie Ray
for Mitchaniger trade failed in spectacular fashion. The Aohennio Suarez

(01:12:37):
trade failed in spectacular fashion. And even though Jared Keelink
was more down than up, that trade is to me
the ultimate example of why this ownership group isn't good enough,
because even though Jared Cellink is a flawed player, probably
just a two to two and a half win player,
it's a hell of a lot more than what you
gave up, a hell of a lot more. And then
to give all that up and to not actually spend

(01:12:58):
any gosh damn money with the contracts that they gave up.
That those are three trades that right there could tell
me that Jerry Depoto shouldn't be here.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Well, I would crush on that. They they finished about
the same payroll. They That's what's got to be understood
about this, the Suarez trade. The idea was we got
to cut out strikeouts if they if there was if
he was more valuable on the trade market, you would
get more on the trade market.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
And so you you're told you don't have the money
that you were going to spend. So now you got
to figure out, all right, this was where the creativity
came into place. They dumped the salaries of Suarez, White,
Marco Gonzalez, Marco Gonzalez in order to be able to
afford to get Polanco and Garver, who failed miserably, of course,

(01:13:44):
but that was that was sort of the reason. This
wasn't Robbie Ray for Mitch Hanneger. This was how do
we create six million dollars and get a guy offensively
that can play right away versus a pitcher that we
don't need that can't pitch until July at the earliest.
That's the reason for it was all the machinations that
went into keep the same payroll, build your offense the

(01:14:07):
different a different way, put the ball in play more.
And the problem was you struck out even more and
were horrible offensively as opposed to just mediocre. I mean,
had they been bad offensively, we'd be talking about a
playoff team.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
They were atrocious. Yeah, yeah, And you know, the September
numbers really conflate how bad that or take away from
how bad this offense was. Because they were excellent in
September and they were excellent in you know, ultimately they
missed the postseason by one game, but let's be honest,
there was a feeling that this team was kind of
out of it and there wasn't a lot of whole

(01:14:45):
lot of pressure on this team for the last couple
of weeks. And you know, that comes down to a
little bit with offensive philosophy as well, is why did
this team have so much more success? And you know,
credit to Edgar, I guess, But at the same time,
I just can't help but think, if this team, if
this front, if this is what the Mariners are going

(01:15:06):
to be, I need a different person to be in
charge of this ultimate roster. I need somebody who can
build a roster that can be not just consistently good,
but consistently great at times as well. And there's nothing
I've seen from Jerry to Poto thus far that suggests
to me that he can take them into that consistently
great moment.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
We're trying to create payroll for guyst like like you know,
Polanco and Garverory, you can just not spend five million
dollars on the least your eyes, not spend five million
dollars on Ryan Stanik.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
My very close and good personal life.

Speaker 4 (01:15:38):
So I mean like there's plenty of waste on this
roster outside of these guys that were arguing about whether
the process was sound or not. And that's kind of
the whole thing, is that when you are in the
situation that this organization is in, you can't waste like that.
You can't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
You have to be so good.

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
And that's more of a criticism of the situation than
it is of Jerry to Poe. So I feel like
we have to grade Jerry on this really hard curve
because the nature of this job is challenging. It's just
hard to win here. And maybe that changes if you
win a World Series. I mean, this would be my
whole argument with the ownership. If you win a World Series,
maybe it starts getting easier to win future World Series

(01:16:17):
because the people actually want to come here and pay
attention to the team and look, hey you won game,
so you made more money, and hey winning breed success.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Whoever heard about that?

Speaker 4 (01:16:25):
So yeah, but until then, there's just too many misses.
I mean, look at the guys that they lost. Just
I mean, I feel like we just talked through this
whole last offseason that we just went through in order
to almost kind I know you weren't defending it, Chuck,
but it almost just felt like, well, they had to
do all these bad trades so that then they could
bring in the bad free agents if they brought in
and it's like, it's all bad.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
But that's how it turned out. But again, we'll go
back to what I said at the beginning of the show.
Everybody liked the roster at the beginning of the year.

Speaker 4 (01:16:55):
Fair, Yes, that's a fair point, so one hundred percent.
So I look, I get.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
It, and I loved to go. Let's make that clear
though too, like liked like we talked to you know,
Jimmy's on first right before they we went on, and yeah,
we liked this roster, but we didn't love it. And ultimately,
a guy that's been the general manager for ten years
the ultimate guide decision. I've never loved a Seattle mari

(01:17:20):
and a roster like. I can't say that for any
of the other teams that I follow. I've loved Seattle
Seahawk rosters. I've the cracking are too young for me
to put in that discussion. I've loved Washington Husky roster.
I know that's different, but it's not that different anymore.
With nil stuff. I have should have loved a Seattle
mari and a roster in a decade. I can't give

(01:17:40):
you one roster that I have loved for the Seattle Mariners.
There have been rosters that I have liked. There have been.
And here's the other thing too, this is an extremely
likable team. Yes, like there are so many players that
are incredibly likable on this roster, which is why it's
frustrating too. So I liked the Seattle Mariners and I
thought that they were going to be a postseason team,

(01:18:00):
but I didn't love it. And after ten years, there
should be a roster that I love at some point.
And I, yes I'm a critic, and yes I am
willing to admit that I can be too hard on
these guys. It shouldn't be that hard to build a
roster that I love in a decade.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
Yeah, I haven't loved one either, So just to you know,
just be fair about that. We have the Mollywop guys here,
Chris Crawford and Nathan Bishop. We also got Anders Hurst.
My name is Chuck Powell. Chuck versus Mollywop. We got
a half hour to go here on the podcast and
on the radio program. We do love I would hope

(01:18:36):
the starting pitching on this team, and you will have it.
It looks like going forward, I do want to discuss
that on the other side on a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
Of different angles.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
I don't even want to tease it, because there are
a lot of ways to discuss this thing.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
We'll do that next.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
It's Sports Radio ninety three point three kh ARFM.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Now back to the forties, yup Andthaniel Old Mariners weren't
invited to the World Series Specialty podcast show and Chuck
Powell on Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
The forty seven annual Mariners Haven't been invited to the
World Series Specialty podcast continues. Molly Wopp is here. It's
Nathan Bishop, It's Chris Crawford. My name is Chuck Powell
anders Hurst here as well. Going forward, guys, there's a
lot to be frustrated about and be angry about. There
is nothing not to like about the Mariners starting pitching,

(01:19:31):
both how it performed this year, how young it is,
how controllable it is, and how healthy they've been able
to keep these five guys that started nearly every game
this year. I mean, it is insane The Dodgers used
forty seven pitchers this year and I think seventeen different starters.
The Mariners used six plus one start from Jonathan Diaz
for goodness sake this year, and they still did not

(01:19:53):
make the playoffs despite being so exceptional. So as long
as they have this starting pitching going forward, aren't we
all just going to regroup in the spring and feel
very encouraged again and full of hope because if you
can just surround them with any kind of offensive talent,
it feels like they will achieve the playoffs again next year.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Yeah, so there's no reason for concern on paper. But
I'll take you back to two thousand and three, because
you know that was the heyday of Chris Crawford, one
year before he could legally drink, but still found a
way to get it done. The Seattle Mariners had five
guys make all of their starts, and you had to
feel awfully good about a rotation of Jamie Moyer, Ryan Franklin,

(01:20:41):
Joel Pinero, Freddie Garcia and Gil Mesh. Anybody remember what
happened the next year to the Seattle Mariners. Now it
wasn't all pitching, but a lot of that team just
completely fell apart. And part of that was because some
of the guys didn't play as well, and some of
that had to do with age, but something that had
to do with some injury stuff and asking your starting

(01:21:01):
rotation to stay healthy is a tough thing, and you know,
we saw it at the end of the year. Luis
Castillo ends up missing time. I wouldn't doubt if there's another,
I'm not rooting for it by any stretch of the imagination.
So there is concern in just the fact that it's
modern time baseball and pitching is going to be something
that's always at least a little influx because of injuries.

(01:21:21):
That being said, on paper, this is the best rotation
in baseball, and it's not even close. Like what you
got from your back end starters in Bryce Miller and
Brian Wu. Those guys ended up being your best starters
down the stretch. Really, I know Brian Wu had some
issues towards the end, but what you got from those
guys was so incredible. And then you add on to
that the development that Logan Gilbert took just the cheer.

(01:21:45):
His secondary stuff has just gotten so much better as
it's gone on, and George Kirby. Yeah, there's going to
be some clunkers because he is as stubborn as Jerry
to Poto and just absolutely refuses to do anything to
expand the strike zone. Yes, that's frustrating. Castillo might have
been your fifth starter, and he had a stretch where
he was among the very best pitchers in baseball, something

(01:22:06):
like thirteen starts in a row of six innings or
two runs or fewer. This rotation is awesome. I wish
there was more depth to it. I'm not a huge
Emerson Hancock guy in terms of him being that next guy,
and I'll be curious to see if he's somebody who's
brought up in trades just as a cheap option for
teams at the back end. But yeah, on paper, this
rotation is as good as any starting pitching in baseball.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
At the risk of being punched in the face by
a guy who's been a Mariner fan a lot longer
than I am.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Not one of those guys.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
From that Freddie Garcia rotation or as good as any
of the five.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
Oh no, no, by the way, I wouldn't punch in
the face. I would kick and then run. But that's
totally fair. That's totally fair. Jamie Moyer was really freaking good.
Oh they're good. They're all good.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
These guys.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
I saw five aces by the end of the year
this year. Maybe I drank a little bit too much
of the kool aid, but wow.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
No, I'm just saying that, like those five that that
was the reason that everybody was super excited was you
had five guys who made and it was the first
time he had been done in a very long time.
And then things turned quick went quickly went south. My
whole point, though, honestly, is just that starting pitching and
basing it your entire success on it in the Year

(01:23:23):
of Our Lord twenty twenty five might be a little
bit of a mistake because you just don't know if
arms are going to be able to stay healthy.

Speaker 4 (01:23:30):
Nathan, Yeah, And I would also say I'd be terrified
to punch you in the face because I assumed that
then Bucky would track me down. And my understanding is
that Bucky already I should already fear Bucky tracking me down,
So that's not going to be happening in the near future.
You know, the discussion around starting pitching, and because I
think that that's there's there's two separate discussions there that

(01:23:52):
we can try. No, we only have a ton of time.
But one there's starting pitching, of which the Seattle beri
Is probably have more and better than pretty much any
other franchise in Major League Baseball, which is fantastic. It's
an awesome thing. And I think we've said on our
segment many many times, full credit to the organization, like
they've done this better. They've developed pitching and this rotation

(01:24:14):
specifically better than I think anything the Seattle Mariners have
done as an organization since the heyday of two thousand
to two thousand and three. This has been one of
their greatest accomplishments of the last twenty years. They deserve
so many flowers for doing it, absolutely, and it's unbelievable.
And the thing that's incredible is the fact that these
guys keep getting better. To your point, Chuck, I kept

(01:24:34):
waiting for Brian wu and for Bryce Miller to fall
apart at the end of last year, and they just
got better as the season went on, which is just ridiculous,
because if those guys are going to be the ones
they're going to take the step up to two and
three starters moving forward, This rotation really is just leaps
and bounds ahead of most of the sport. So that's
a fantastic thing to have in the quiver, and I

(01:24:55):
think as long as they're all healthy. To Chris's point,
that's a real knock on wood kind of situation. It
gives this organization an incredibly high floor in a regular
season one hundred and sixty two game schedule. Where I
get more concerned is the bullpen magic seems to be
wearing off with this organization, and the bolten, specifically in

(01:25:16):
high leverage games, as we've seen in this and previous postseasons,
is getting to be more and more of a factor
in games. And it's not just part of that is
that Matt Brash and Gregory Santos got hurt. You can't
do anything about that. But then their attempts to patch
that really did not work very well with Jimmy Garcia
and again my close personal friend Ryan Stanek and a
couple other guys just really spun their wheels. So I

(01:25:39):
think that it's this great thing to have, but the
question is just is it going to be enough? And
I just don't know. I just don't know, But I
love to your point, if they can just be adequate.
All we need is to your point, these these seemingly
good process acquisitions for guys like Polanco and for Garber,
we just need them to be okay. And this team

(01:26:00):
especially again, I just don't think the Al West is
going to be very good next year because Houston signaling
that they're not going to do a ton, the Rangers
are talking about cutting payroll.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
It would be hilarious if.

Speaker 4 (01:26:10):
The A's ended up being a contender next year for
a lot of reasons only, and the Angels are just.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Trade humorous punching bags.

Speaker 4 (01:26:18):
So you know, we could have this conversation at Jimmy's
in a couple months where I'm talking, hey, man, eighty
nine wins and they're going to win the division. So
and the starting pitching gives them every possibility of getting there. Unbelievable,
how good they are. Yeah, I want to go around
the room for two quick questions.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
So obviously we if I'm going to do this two times,
then we need quick answers on this. I'll start with you, Anders,
would you trade one of the starters if the Mollywop
gods do not grant the Mollywop wish of adding a
one Sodo bat and the other season. Would you trade
one of your proven big guys, I don't care which
one it is in order to get that bat that

(01:26:55):
they so desperately need.

Speaker 5 (01:26:57):
I would not. I want to keep the five that
we have together. Just the proven track record of the
trades hasn't been there, and the ability to develop the
guys once you trade for them hasn't been there. So
I'd rather stick with what you know. Hopefully some of
these additions start to kind of come back a little
bit and kind of play it by that those standards.
I don't think it would be a big risk for me.

(01:27:19):
I think you got five guys that you know are elite,
and I don't know if you get that return, Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
You'd have to get a want Soto type bat. You
would have to get that type of guy to move
one of those five guys. Yeah, I'm sorry to bring
up one Sotos there, but they have too good a
farm system to move one of those five starters, like
they have legitimate upper echelon talent, especially up the middle.
And some of these guys you're going to have to
trade now while their value is at their highest. So yes,

(01:27:44):
you do have to make trades because that's just going
to be the way they're going to do it. I
don't think you have to trade one of the starters
to do it because you have so much depth in
your minor league system.

Speaker 4 (01:27:53):
Nathan, No, I don't trust the people that would be
in charge of trading them with getting the kind of
return that would justify getting rid of one of those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
I would not do that trade.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
Okay, all right, and then the last thing, give me
your off season wish for what you want to have
happen personnel wise. You know, fired to Poto wherever.

Speaker 4 (01:28:13):
You want to go.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
What is your Nathan will start with you. What's your
off season wish for the Mariners quick answer?

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
Regardless of what they decide to do with the roster,
I want them to do a full organizational audit and
the kind of introspective perspective that Jerry seem to take
towards the end of last season. I hope that that
really continues and that they really really granularly break down
what it is that they are trying to do on
the offensive side of the ball because it has not
been working, and whatever they do moving forward, I hope

(01:28:40):
it comes from a position of Hey, maybe we need
to be asking new questions and seeking answers from new people.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
Anders one Soto, we just can't escape him.

Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
Kennny cannot fix a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:28:54):
Give me a one sot of Julio Rodvegaz, Victor Robos outfield.

Speaker 4 (01:28:57):
That's so much fun.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
Yeah, yeah, all right, Chris, what's your wish?

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
Sweet release a death thing that I think could really
help out right now? Now, just answer that seriously? Aggressive,
Just be aggressive, show me how much this means to you,
and be aggressive. I don't need it to be Wan Soto,
I don't need it to be any of these other
upper echelons. I'd love it to be. It'd be great
to see. But be aggressive. Show me that the twenty

(01:29:24):
twenty five season has urgency. It's all I'm asking is
show me the urgency that you did not show in
twenty twenty four.

Speaker 4 (01:29:30):
All right, so there you go. We didn't kill each
other yet.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Yeah, I did ask for the sweet release of death. Yeah,
Buck forrest the zip code if anybody's looking.

Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
To the beautiful Drive was a gorgeous place, all.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
Right, gentlemen, Well, you know, I think you guys love
the off season as much as me, so I know
this comes with a little pain in it, but to
enjoy the off season, enjoy the stove act.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Hopefully we'll all get what we wish for here.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
This offseason from the Mariner has been a very, very
frustrating year, There's no question about it. But continue the
excellent work on the Infernest radio program and we'll do
this again sometime.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Sounds good, my friends.

Speaker 3 (01:30:15):
Awesome's been a blast, all right, Nathan Bishop, Chris Crawford, Andershurst,
my name is that Chuck Powell. We've got two more
hours to go on our off season podcast for the Mariner.
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
This is a special.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM sports presentation. It's
the forty seventh annual Mariners Weren't Invited to the World
Series Specialty Podcast show. Here's your host, Chuck Powell.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
Welcome to our number three of the forty seventh annual
Mariners Weren't Invited to the World Series Specialty Podcast right
here on iHeart Seattle's family of radio station, Sports Radio
ninety three point three KJRFM. My name is Chuck Bow
your host and moderator. And as we move into the
second half of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
It's the Players Edition.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
We're bringing on former Major League Baseball players, those who
have warned the Mariner uniform to discuss why aren't the
Mariners in the World Series. Bucky Jacobson is here. You
know Bucky Jacobson from Chuck and Buck in the Mornings,
and of course his stint with the Mariners, the Paul
Bunyan in his time of Mariner Baseball, and of course

(01:31:29):
another guy that has added so much to our radio
station these past couple of years, Steven Susa is with us.
Lifelong Mariner fan, got to wear the Mariner uniform as well,
and put together one hell of a career and he's
joining us here for our Players Edition portion of our
specialty podcast, Icy Bucky every Day, Steven, how you doing.

Speaker 6 (01:31:49):
I'm doing great. Yeah, it's great to be here. That's
quite an intro. I appreciate it. But you know, it's
not every day when I stand next to someone I
feel small. But I do I feel small standing next
to you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
You're just tall. I mean it might even be taller.

Speaker 6 (01:32:01):
Yeah, but if I want to, if I'm going to
go for a three on three championship, I'm calling you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Okay, we can take it down. Those days are probably over.
I'm not very athletic. I now have to be careful
just walking on uneven ground. You'll see. Just give it
twenty years.

Speaker 7 (01:32:15):
Actually, although you look like you're still keeping yourself in shape,
you like working out.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
I run a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:32:20):
Yeah, I figured on I figured once I was done
playing that, you know, I wouldn't. The food I ate
while I was playing would catch up to me. So
I said, all right, I'm not gonna eat as much
and I'm gonna go play a lot of basketball.

Speaker 7 (01:32:31):
Okay, Oh yeah, you're playing hoops running. You're not just
going out and yogging.

Speaker 6 (01:32:35):
Yeah, apparently that's where you just run for an extended
period of time.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Well, I wouldn't. I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:32:40):
I would never do that unless I was being chased
or my car broke down and I was being chased.

Speaker 6 (01:32:45):
I wouldn't do a yog. I don't know why people
do it. I feel like I watch you running and
where are you going? You know, if you're going to
turn back around, I might as well drive. Let me
give me a purpose for running. I'm gonna run and
then I'm gonna score a touchdown or a basket. Yeah,
I'm running for something he's got to be at all
to at all.

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
Yeah, yeah, And I like that you went even further
in the anchor man quote. It didn't just stop at
the basic that's right. You have a little extra that
you could add to that. All right, Well, it's great
to see you, great to have you both here. Let's
dive into it, and I will start with Steven, but
this is just going to get the conversation going here.

(01:33:26):
And it's a broad question. Why aren't the Mariners in
the World Series again this year?

Speaker 2 (01:33:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:33:32):
I think you can point obviously throughout the year to
a number of different things, right, but when it comes
down to it, if you just look at who's in
it right now, if you go to Major League Baseball's
highest payroll, you got the Mets, the Yankees, the Astros,
the Phillies, the Dodgers, Atlanta and then he drops off
a little bit there. But seven out of the top

(01:33:53):
ten are in the playoffs now. The Mariners are at sixteen,
and they finished right around that kind of record, right
right in the middle of the pack. And I know
the argument against that is probably gonna be, like, hey,
Cleveland didn't have a high pay roll and Tampa doesn't
have a high pay role in these small market teams.
But when you have an opportunity, when you have a young,

(01:34:14):
talented core that is at the minimum and you can
bring in some veterans to win championships that are high
caliber to support those young players developing, you have to
take advantage of that. And I think we saw when
Justin Turner came over here how much of an impact
just even having a veteran is. Now imagine if it

(01:34:35):
was a veteran that was Justin Turner and his prime right, Like,
those are the type of things that the Mariners need
to get over the hump, and they did that at
the deadline in twenty twenty two when they picked up
Luis Castillo and they picked up Carlos Santana. But they
just keep missing the mark. They go into the winner
with a separate mindset. We come into spring training and

(01:34:56):
they're just a little bit off right. The roster doesn't
always look why complete coming into spring training, and then
somewhere along the line, Jerry does a good job adding
some pieces and then they just end up short at
the trade deadline. And so you know, if we could
go back and resurface the offseason, I think they would
redo it and try and add someone like JD. Martinez

(01:35:17):
right or Justin Turner right away. That can pour into
these kids, because no matter what we see, the most
consistent thing I've heard from each one of these guys
when Justin Turner came over here, when we had veteran
leadership in here, the whole locker room changed. And to
be honest with you, some of that is Edgar and Dan.
Like those guys played and they have that veteran leadership.

(01:35:38):
It's just different when you have a player on your
team that's able to kind of relate on a day
to day basis.

Speaker 7 (01:35:43):
So they're going through it right time. They're facing that
same dude. So it's going to be different than Edgar
trying to remember what it was like facing somebody similar
to that guy. I mean, that's helpful in and of itself,
but it's completely different. I mean part of me would ask, though, like,
weren't they thinking that Mitch Garver was going to be
that right? I mean, I don't he to me if

(01:36:06):
you ask me, what is the reason they're not in?
They didn't get in the dance, and you get in
the dance with that pitching staff, there's a very good
chance that they're the team that's playing for the World
Series right now. Would have been any number of guys
that just didn't even hit close to the back of
their baseball card, like I mean, there's something philosophically, and
then some sort of press scene happened. It seemed like

(01:36:27):
because I mean, if you just have Julio's numbers, don't end.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
Up looking all that bad. But he really was.

Speaker 7 (01:36:33):
He just kind of got hot again there towards the
end of the season. If he just has one month
less of a slow start, or if JP Crawford is
just close to what he was the year before, I
don't need him to have another career year. I mean,
if Mitch Garver doesn't have his worst season ever, probably
in his life as a hitter, I mean, just any

(01:36:55):
if you have two guys that don't have career worst years,
I think that you're you end up winning four more
games and you probably you know, moonwalking into the postseason.

Speaker 6 (01:37:05):
Sure, and I think there are some valid points to that.
My pushback on that would be, when has Mitch Garver
ever been like the guy on the team and that
they kind of signed him to be the everyday DH
in the middle of the lineup, and when you're in
a lineup like Minnesota has, where they've got Buston and
Kepler and Correa, and then you're in a lineup with
Seeger and Simeon and Josh Young and Nate Lowe and

(01:37:27):
Adolas Garcia, you kind of can fall into the background
and have some really good years. But when it's your
turn to be the guy that everybody looks to, there's
a different mindset to that. On top of it, he
hadn't played more than one hundred games, I think, but
maybe once, maybe twice in his career, So it seems
like and I wouldn't say this is all Jerry's fault,

(01:37:47):
because it seems like he's trying to thread the needle
payroll wise, where it's like, where can I capitalize on
the market on a guy who's had a good year
but maybe not in his prime. We saw that with
Aj Pollock, We saw that with Tommy Listello, We saw
that with Mitch Garver, right, and even getting Mitch Hanniger back,
we knew was kind of exactly Colton want exactly. And
these guys were all really good at one point. They're

(01:38:08):
good players, but we're getting them here where they're on
the decline, or that we're putting them into a role
that they've never been asked to do. And so when
you combine those two things, the consistency of production just
isn't there. And then I think, on top of your point,
it's like philosophically, what was happening inside the locker room
from a hitting standpoint, was preached to those guys was

(01:38:29):
clearly way off because what Edgar brought in and what
I've discussed with a lot of the guys, is that
he made it so simple, and his calming presence and
his ability to relate and give you a simple answer
right away with confidence knowing that he doesn't need this job.
It hit guys a lot different. And we saw the
results in September. I mean, they were one of the
top three offenses in baseball, if not the number one.

Speaker 3 (01:38:51):
Now I'm gonna I just want to add some context
to this because I think that I can kind of
combine the two points that you guys are made a
number one. I think that they did an evaluation of
the free agents in the offseason and they really thought
Mitch Garver was an even better solution than JD. Martinez
and the idea behind it was, like you said, trying

(01:39:13):
to thread the needle. We only spend so much, and
then we even had to ship off some players in
order to create the salary just to afford Garver and
Polonco and I think that their feeling was Garver full
time DH, we're not going to catch him, that's going
to keep him healthy? What can he do for a
full year?

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
Plus? JD.

Speaker 3 (01:39:34):
Martinez didn't want to be here. But this gets back
to your original point, Steven, and that is the leadership
that you miss. Mitch Garver's never shown that I can
be the man in the clubhouse. I mean, I think
he's a good guy, and I think he's a good teammate.
I got that impression, but he's not JD. Martinez. He's
not Justin Turner. And yet this organization and this is

(01:39:58):
on Jerry put He puts so little stock into chemistry
and investing in the clubhouse and that sort of mentality
that even though JD. Martinez didn't want to be here
and wasn't going to come in here anyway, Garver doesn't

(01:40:19):
bring that ingredient to this team and it has been missing.
I think they've had a good clubhouse you've been a
part of that clubhouse. I think they've had a good clubhouse.
But Bucky talks about this all the time. Where is
that guy that keeps it from being just good vibes
only and knows, like Justin Turner did when he got here,
when to this is what it takes to be a champion?

Speaker 4 (01:40:40):
Do you want to be one or not?

Speaker 3 (01:40:42):
I'm not sure Garver brought that to the table, and
I'm not sure they had anybody that brought that to
the table until they added Turner.

Speaker 6 (01:40:48):
Yeah, and I think that that makes any sense. Yeah, No,
it makes it makes plenty of sense. And I think
that some of that is on service, to be honest
with you, from what I've heard, in cutting out the
legs from some of those guys that maybe had the
potential to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:59):
But I agree with you.

Speaker 6 (01:41:00):
I think Jerry hopefully is turning the corner on this
idea of chemistry. And I've heard some things in the
media that he has. But listen, if JD. Martinez doesn't
want to be here, and his market value is let's
call it, twelve million dollars, and you want him to
be here, you're gonna have to pay him sixteen million
dollars to get him over here to a non hitter
friendly park, you know, and a team that you know
he wants to. It's far away from his home in Miami.

(01:41:20):
So you have to do things differently to take the
chemistry guy and bring him over here.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Now, I think what has happened.

Speaker 6 (01:41:29):
They've done a poor job because you have to be
connected within the industry with other GMS, other coaches, other
players to know who that guy is right to find
out and you know, like Jerry's got his strengths and weaknesses,
is a GM, and one of them is his weaknesses
is definitely not being connected and knowing people on a
personal level, like around the league. It's very evident you

(01:41:49):
ask anybody around the league, he just doesn't care about it, right,
And so if that is true, then you're not going
to be able to know who's a really good leader.
You're gonna hope that this guy's a good leader. But
until you still to ask questions or like an obvious
one like Justin Turner comes aboard, then you can take
advantage of it. But you look at all the guys
in the postseason, like Aaron Judge, like, yeah, he's one
of the greatest players in the league right now. He's

(01:42:11):
an incredible leader, Like he had the ability to pull
Marcus Stroman aside early in the year when he showed
up Laboratorius and he said, we don't do that here
in New York. There's nobody here in Seattle that does that. Right,
Like you're setting the tone for your culture, and Boon
can basically come through him and say I need you
to take care of this and they can work together.
Julio can't do that. He's twenty four years old. He's

(01:42:32):
still trying to figure it out. Like Julio needs it
done to him one hundred percent. And that's exactly what
Santana did when he came in here. Julio was kind
of trying to figure out there was nobody that he
was really grabbing into. And you know Latinos, they feel
very comfortable around other Latinos and Carlos Santana said, you're
gonna do this. We're gonna be in the weight room,
We're gonna go to the cage of this time. Let's go,

(01:42:53):
we're moving. And it motivated Julio, not that he's not motivated,
but it put him on this program and understanding like
doing these things are going to help you be successful,
and that's just they've missed the mark on that the
last several years.

Speaker 7 (01:43:05):
Yeah, that's quite the indictment. The idea of your general
manager one we've recognized based on the moves they've made
at the trade deadline where you have a Kendill Grayman
who's he's your closer and he's not an everyday player.
We have discussions oftentimes about you kind of need an
everyday player to be one of the dudes that'll get
the red ass when you're not approaching AB's the way

(01:43:26):
you're supposed to and whatnot. But it still is important,
especially he's a spiritual type of a leader in that clubhouse.
He just was a dude that I think people felt
was a foundation, like you can go to the yard
and this dude's going to be the same guy every
single time, and for him to just cast him aside
because this is the service time trade where look at
all this controllable time we get with Montero or whoever

(01:43:50):
it is that they had to get thrown in on
that deal that we've seen. But now from your understanding,
and you know people, you were just in these clubhouses, right,
not that long ago and played for multiple organizations. If
he doesn't one, if he doesn't understand it, that's bad.
If he doesn't care about it, and other gms understand it,

(01:44:11):
so they're like, yeah, i'll trade I'm the Tampa Bay Rays.
I'll do a bunch of deals with you, because I
understand that that's a gamer, like that's what we call like,
that's a ballplayer right there.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
That's a dude in the clubhouse.

Speaker 7 (01:44:24):
You just look at the analytics that you like that
he takes a lot of pitches. You know he works counts.
Oh okay, yeah, I'll trade you that ver easy. It
looks like on paper, it looks like a really even trade.
But I know what the intrinsic side of things are.
And the fact that you're you recognize him, you were
just in that clubhouse. It makes me kind of wonder

(01:44:45):
if that's not a bigger problem, because it's maybe not
the pieces. Like I said, I think that team and
I usually am one that While I know that there's
blame from on high, I still will put most of
it on the players. The players go out and hit,
go out and have better a He's go out and
have better approaches.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
I don't care what the.

Speaker 7 (01:45:02):
Outcome is, as long as you go up to the
dish expecting to be able to do some sort of
damage and have a good ab and doing so. But
if now, all of a sudden there's a there's a
part of it where maybe the players start to feel
like the Cleveland Indians in Major League of like, look
at this dude up here. This dude doesn't get what
we're doing. This guy's he's up there and you know,

(01:45:24):
his penthouse looking down here, judging us, and he will
pull the ripcord on any one of us at any
point in time. That all of a sudden, It can
be a galvanizing thing in the movies, but I think
over the course of one sixty two it's more so. Man,
we're being kind of run by a dude that doesn't
get what we're doing, which is crazy for a guy
that played in the show.

Speaker 6 (01:45:42):
Yeah, and Turn more than helped. Absolutely, he's I don't
know if it's just him specifically, because there is other
guys around the league and other gms that are like this,
But we're losing the art that this is still a
person out there, a people's game, Like these guys have
real lives, like, these guys are trying to provide for them,
They're trying to set themselves up for the future, they're

(01:46:03):
trying to have a career all the while handling all
these pressures. You need somebody to guide you. You can't
just walk in. It's one of the hardest things to
do in the entire world. And on top of it, now,
more than ever, the gap between Triple A and the
big leagues is huge.

Speaker 4 (01:46:18):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:46:19):
I was talking to Cal a couple weeks ago and
I asked him, I said, what was a jump.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
From college to pro ball?

Speaker 6 (01:46:25):
And he said, it was completely different, Right, It's a
completely different game learning from amateur baseball to professional baseball.
And then he said, on top of it, he's like,
it's a completely different game jumping from minor league baseball
to the big leagues. The guys that you're facing are different.
The way you approach things are different. And the only
way you learn that faster is by somebody being alongside

(01:46:45):
you and saying like, no, that's wrong, that's right, don't
do that. So you learn these guys are creatures of habit, right,
and so you have to value that over and over again.
And I think I think if you drive home inalytics,
which he has, and I know that he believes that
this is what we do. We control the zone, we
don't chase right, and we have a high walk rate. Like,

(01:47:07):
if those two things are good, we're going to win
ball games. If our WOLBA is good, we're on base,
we create opportunities, we're going to take advantage of them.
The problem with that is if you pour too much
into the analytics, you're missing the part in the ninth
inning when your heart's beating really fast. Right, and those
things are a little bit different, right, people tense up

(01:47:28):
a little bit, or you had a tough day at home, right,
and like there's a lot going on, maybe your father's
sick or something like that, which happens all the time. Right,
how's that guy going to handle an out that? You
need somebody to teach you those professional parts of it.
You need coaches to come around you and be confident
enough to say, hey, it's all right, all right, or
you know, being able to come alongside and say this

(01:47:50):
is how you taken that bat in these moments, Like,
if you don't get taught those things, it just takes
you a little bit longer to figure them out, and
that's what we're seeing with some of these guys. They're
just not able to make the adjustments as fat.

Speaker 3 (01:48:01):
Yeah, and I definitely one of the main topics we're
going to discuss in our time here together is going
to be that offensive philosophy. But I'm saving that for
the fat segment coming up here in a little bit.
So let me close then with this along the lines
of what we are discussing here, Edgar and Dan for
a full off season together with this team, no matter.
We don't even know what moves that Jerry and Justin

(01:48:23):
are going to make at this point, so just assuming
that it's the heart of the team with Edgar and
Dan a full off season and then together all next season. Steven,
how big of a difference do you think that that makes?

Speaker 6 (01:48:37):
Massive? I mean massive, massive difference. I think Dan. I
think Dan is incredible. Luckily they Jerry got it right.

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:48:46):
I mean it's not every day that you have someone
like Dan and your organization to just okay, well he'll
be your replacement and then we'll name him. I don't
think anybody really has that luxury to do that. But
I remember being with Dan and Triple A, and I
said to him, I go, how long before you're the
manager of this team? And you know, Dan, very humble,
very unassuming, just said, like Susan, don't I don't want
it right now? You know, Scott Servis is the manager,

(01:49:08):
and I would never try to undercut him right there,
and you know, I've got kids and whatnot, and so
I just knew the way he knows the game, the
way he deals with people. He takes the time to
talk to each individual and walk through them and then
on top of it, right he's been through it. So
when when you know, when you sit down with someone
who's played and still has that player mentality, which I
think that Dan does, there's a level of comfort and

(01:49:31):
a level of trust where you feel like, oh, you
know what I'm going through. The ironic thing is Scott
and Jerry both played, but they miss that part of it.
They miss the people part of it to understand, and
I think the caveat and I'll throw it to you
Buck is Dan and Edgar they don't need this job.
They can go home and they're fine. Dan had a
fine career roots with so him for them to take

(01:49:54):
this job, they're saying, we want to help, and I
think the players really appreciate and respect that well.

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
I mean you would know more than I do.

Speaker 7 (01:50:01):
I mean, just the guys that are in that have
been in that clubhouse, right, that exact clubhouse. They know
what the entire culture around the team is. They know
what the fan base feels.

Speaker 2 (01:50:13):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:50:14):
You'll recognize the more you get out of the game
and you go from being a player to then you
get out of bed and your back hurts and you're like,
I'm not a player, I'm just a fan. Now it
is blatantly obvious that you start to gravitate towards mentally.
It's like I can't help but put myself in the
batter's box sometimes, like playing that game. But then I

(01:50:36):
live in the space as a fan. And so I
think Edgar Martinez and Dan Wilson both have been fans
of this team now for two decades after they got
done playing, and so they recognize the outside where Scott
Servis didn't understand that. I mean he can say that
he does, he can read and follow Twitter and recognize
the things that are going on, but to actually be there,

(01:50:59):
I mean, those two were there when this team did.
It's very few good things as far as an organization
goes so they can take him back there. To me,
there's a little part of me that's wondering. Dan Wilson
is a dude. He's a leader, right. He was a
leader on when this team was good. He was the catcher.
There's a reason why catchers end up being managers more
often than not. They get it. They can handle working

(01:51:21):
with the non athletes. That is a shot that you
pitchers out there, and they can handle. They work with
those guys, but at the same time, they're an everyday
player and so they have the respect of the position players.
To me, I think that he has everything that is
in there. I don't know if Edgar wants to do
it right. If Edgar does it, considering he doesn't have to,
and I think to some degree, he would only be

(01:51:42):
doing it from a selfless place. It would only be
because he loves the Mariners, and he loves the organization,
and he loves the individual players and he wants to
help him. If these two both sign up to do
this for the full season next year, it's going to
be immense how much of a difference the mentality is
going to be, where it'll be simplified and yet We're
not given anything away because those two guys are professionals.

(01:52:02):
One's a Hall of Famer for Crenel out.

Speaker 3 (01:52:04):
I have a feeling Edgar was the same way that
you guys were. He was sitting on his couch at
home and couldn't stand one more time. Why did you
not swing at that pitch? That's a hit able pitch,
you know? I think and I think that he was like, Dan,
if you ever take the job I'm in. I think
that that's probably what happened at home. The only thing
we got to do with Dan, though, is work on
those postgame press conferences. Oh boy, Dan, you need some

(01:52:27):
work in that area. I don't know if I can
hear one more time. Hey, the guys played all the
way through the nine innings. They pushed it all the
way to the end. Yeah, Dan, they didn't walk off
the field in the seventh.

Speaker 2 (01:52:37):
We get it.

Speaker 4 (01:52:38):
Come on, now, give us a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:52:40):
To chew on here, all right, Steven Susa is here,
Bucky Jacobson is here. It's the players edition of our
forty seventh annual. Mariners weren't invited to the World Series
specialty podcast for you right here on Sports Radio ninety
three point three KRFM.

Speaker 1 (01:52:59):
Now to the forty seventh Vanuel Old Mariners Weren't Invited

Speaker 3 (01:53:10):
Welcome back to the forty seventh annual Mariners Weren't invited
to the World Series Specialty Podcast. My name is Chuck Powell.
We did the Mollywop guys in the first two hours.
We bring the players in here for our final two hours.
We've got Steven Susie here, We've got Bucky Jacobs in here,
and we have a lot of things to discuss with
these gentlemen. So I'll ask this of you Stevid first,

(01:53:34):
because you've got personal experience with this. You were around
a lot of these players and then you tried to
make the adjustment yourself. Why do so many newcomers struggle
to adjust, especially hitters, to playing with the Seattle Mariners.

Speaker 2 (01:53:48):
As far as you can.

Speaker 6 (01:53:49):
Tell, yeah, I think the park has something to do
with it. Right, it's early on in the year, it's
the ball does not travel like, the air is thick,
it's cold, and it's a bigger park, it really is,
and so that can get to you over the course
of your first couple of months, you know, you don't
get off to a great start. You really get into
a ball and it doesn't travel.

Speaker 1 (01:54:10):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:54:10):
I had a conversation with Justin Turner and asked him, like,
what was it like coming over here, like as the
park because everybody talks about the park. He said, you know,
I got one ball at like one oh six or
something and it got caught at the track. He's like,
I've never felt what that's like before. Right, He's been
in Boston, in la in Toronto, and so he said,
it is a little bit different, right, And if you're

(01:54:31):
not mentally strong enough to just say you just keep
pressing through and eventually it'll work out. Because because in reality,
and like June, July, August, when it heats up, like
it starts to fly a little bit better. I don't
know that it, you know, balances out throughout the year,
but I think that has a big part to do
with it. When you stand in the box and realize
I've got to get all of this ball in order
to leave, like it can get to you. Whereas if

(01:54:53):
you're in you know, I know it's an extreme example,
but in Cincinnati. You just feel like you just got
to touch it right and you don't have to do
too much. And as hitters, whenever you don't have to
do too much, you take the most consistent swing. You're relaxed,
your barrel accuracy goes way up, and you don't panic
to rush to swing at pitches. So I think that's
Number one. I think number two, the way that they've

(01:55:16):
developed the philosophy of hitting here and trying to get
guys to really not chase is the onus on the team.
I think puts guys in a more passive position, right,
and when they're in when they're in a passive.

Speaker 7 (01:55:33):
Position, love defensive offense exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:55:36):
When they're in a passive position, they they take these
pitches that are very hittable, and without knowing what you're attacking,
and not knowing the big leagues and how guys are
trying to attack you because these are really young hitters,
it can get really frustrating, and then you end up
in this tailspin. It's like, well, I'm not trying to chase,
but I also don't really know what I'm looking for,

(01:55:59):
and then I don't really have much help on the side,
even from veteran players, like veteran players still need help
from other guys. Like it's not like veteran players just
go wherever they want. There's only so many guys like
Mike Trout that just they hit the big leagues, they
don't need anybody. They dominate, they go to the Hall
of Fame. There ain't that many guys out there. I
can tell you that, right, And so even as a veteran,
you're like, I need somebody to bounce off something that

(01:56:19):
I can trust. And when you look around, you don't
have anybody. It's like I'm kind of on an island.
And then you know, you look at your hitting coach
at the time, he's thirty three. Some of them like
they're the same age, and you haven't been in the box.
It's very difficult to walk up to you and say, like,
what do you think about this, especially when you know
JD was super smart but very tentative in the way

(01:56:40):
he would deliver his information. Boy, just because I think
there was some kind of age and experience thing there
right whereas when Tim Laker was here, Tim Laker would say, hey,
this is what you do right here, Bata boom, battabam
and Laker played and is a very good hitting coach,
and so when Laker left, there was a huge disconnect
between the veterans and what was going on in the box.

Speaker 2 (01:57:02):
Wow. I mean yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:57:03):
The way in which you information being delivered is great.
And that's why, even though I come across as an
old fuddy duddy on the radio when it kind when
I'm joking about analytics, I think the idea of using
analytics is genius and you'd be stupid not to. But
at the same time, now deliver that information. Hey, look
at all this stuff here, But what I need you
to do. This dude is gonna come after you. You're

(01:57:25):
hitting a buck sixty right now. This dude's coming after you.
So if he goes after you, if he throws you
first pitch fastball, can you please be ready to hit
that thing that way versus okay, So percentiles are saying
it's a seventy four percent chance that he's gonna throw
fastball because of all this other stuff, and so how you.

Speaker 2 (01:57:41):
Deliver it, I think is huge.

Speaker 7 (01:57:43):
The idea of I get the air is heavier, and
you can have balls that might jump out of the
yard in June or July and they don't in April.

Speaker 2 (01:57:51):
That makes sense.

Speaker 7 (01:57:52):
That's just science, right, I wasn't up here in science. Yeah,
in science, everybody knows. Right, you just say that and
it makes it true, as I'm sure. So there's the
idea of Okay, then if you don't have power, right,
the difference between power and pop. You know, if you
don't have power, don't try launching balls in a yard

(01:58:12):
that's deep and the air is heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:58:14):
That's right, JP.

Speaker 4 (01:58:15):
Please stop not to mention any names, but.

Speaker 7 (01:58:18):
JP stop right, I mean, I'm not gonna say any names.
JP Crawford, You're not a power do it, right, I mean,
it's just to me. Then play the game. You should
have a philosophy as an organization. They didn't just move
to Seattle. The marine layers didn't just happen a couple
of years ago. Then have a philosophy that says, hey, guys,
first part of the season, ball's not going to carry.

(01:58:39):
So Nelson Cruz, you still do what you do because
you can go yard regardless of the weight of the air.
Exactly if you have you know, Julio, you can go
ahead and swing out of your ass. And it's like, yeah,
cal you go ahead, go yard because you guys got
you got what it takes to get it out.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
Regardless of what the weather conditions are.

Speaker 7 (01:58:59):
The rest of us, we're gonna get balls on a line,
okay where I don't want to see JP as a
matter of fact, until June hits. I don't want to
see one swing that your helmet falls off. Yeah, because
that means you're swinging out of your shoes. And so
if you can't formulate a philosophy that is conducive to
where you play, because other teams come in here and
they don't have to do it for three games.

Speaker 2 (01:59:20):
And then they get to leave town.

Speaker 7 (01:59:21):
So they can have a bad outing against some good
pitching and it's not gonna cripple the way their season
starts off. This team starts off and they offensively are crippled.
And I think the biggest part of that is I
want to be aggressive when I'm on offense. I want
to be on offense. That was a thing by the
end of the season. It didn't even take the end
of the season watching Mitch Garver. I don't want a

(01:59:44):
designated walker. I want a designated hitter. I don't want
a guy that's going up there just trying to battle
and take a bunch of pitches because you're if it's
a pitch you can crush. I don't care if it's
two inches off the play it away. If it's d high,
smash that thing. You can be a little bit tardy,
double down the line, you can be a little bit
early in the hooka doubled in the left field line.

(02:00:04):
I mean, that's a pitch that you can do damage on.
I don't care whether it's a striker or not. So
to me, the idea of philosophically, whether it's not being
not being the right philosophy or not being delivered the
right way, both of those.

Speaker 2 (02:00:17):
Are unacceptable in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (02:00:19):
Yeah, whatever information has been translated from front office down
to the players, it's failed.

Speaker 2 (02:00:26):
Yea, burn it all.

Speaker 3 (02:00:28):
Figure out a new translate a way, a new way
of doing it. I mean, because it's been four years
in a row where no offense until summer, and then
this year it took damn near till fall uh to
get anything going. And the newcomers particularly are the ones
that are struggling. It's Mitch Garver comes here and has

(02:00:49):
his worst career year. Polanco as his career worst year.
Colton Wong played himself out of the league by putting
on a mayor in or uniform.

Speaker 4 (02:00:57):
I've said this.

Speaker 3 (02:00:58):
Numerous times, Steven, just get your quick reaction to it.
The problem with the Mariners is not that they liked
Taoscar Hernandez and wanted him. The problem isn't that they
let him go after having had him for a season
and watching him strike out so much and they wanted
to cut down on strikeouts. The problem with the Mariners

(02:01:18):
is why was he so much worse here than he
was before he got here and after he left. That's
the issue, and it has to be solved this offseason.

Speaker 2 (02:01:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:01:29):
Absolutely, And he said it a couple of days ago, right,
Like the culture in LA. You walk in there and
you instantly just feel better. Now, you feel better when
you have Shoeo Tani, Freddy Freeman and Moki Betts and
Will Smith's around about you, right and Max Montsy like
that definitely helps a ton. But the way that they
they have some of the same superstars, maybe not to
that magnitude in New York, but there's a little bit
of a disparity in the culture there too. And I

(02:01:51):
think when you go to LA and the culture set right,
Freddy said it there will set it there, Walker Kershaw like,
it's set you know what is expected of you when
you walk in there, and it's your job to fit
in when you come here. There's not really an identity
as far as an offense. So you take all those
things that we talked about and then you don't have

(02:02:12):
an identity as a culture. It's going to create some
havoc for you trying to figure out where you fit in.
How does this offense kind of work? And he said
it perfectly. It's a bunch of individuals trying to.

Speaker 2 (02:02:22):
Have at bats.

Speaker 6 (02:02:23):
Whereas you watch La or even even let's give it
to Cleveland, right. I think about the at bats off
of Luke Weaver when they got him on the change up.
They committed as a team like this guy, we can't
beat this guy on a normal kind of sit on
the fastball and work, so we have to sit on
the change up.

Speaker 2 (02:02:39):
And they did.

Speaker 6 (02:02:39):
Every single one of them did it, Ramirez, Lane, Thomas
and Joninsky, you know the Noel Merry Christmas guy. Yeah,
they all committed to it, and what happened like they
had success to it. But if one guy in there says,
I don't want to do that, it's going to break down.
It's just that doesn't happen in La. Like being in
that locker room. When you're that hitters meeting, you commit

(02:03:01):
as a team. If you don't, you're kind of the outcast.
You're the only guy that's not doing it. In Seattle,
everybody's kind of got their own opinions on oh, I'm
going to take my bat this way at times, and
I think sometimes you have to take out pass as
a team to wear down the pitcher to get the
pitches that you want to do.

Speaker 3 (02:03:19):
Right, So you're saying that when we watch them just
every opponent just throw nothing but breaking balls for three
straight months, then maybe they should have changed something.

Speaker 4 (02:03:28):
That's what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (02:03:29):
Absolutely, Bucky, Huh, Yeah, I didn't.

Speaker 7 (02:03:32):
Say that about a million times. Can we just sit
something with a wrinkle in it?

Speaker 2 (02:03:36):
Please?

Speaker 7 (02:03:36):
I mean they no, that's not my pitch and it's
not in my box. That's what they know. Your box, guys.
They know what pitch you want and what location you want. Okay,
but let me ask you this, But who is going
to tell them that? Like, is Jared Dehargan to come
up to cal and say, Hey, you sit on a
breaking ball because you know they're giving you nothing but
breaking balls. When Col's never sat on breaking ball in
his life, never had to, right, or any of these

(02:03:58):
guys have never really had to. You need somebody that
comes in there and says, hey, it's okay to do this,
and even if you don't get a hit, it's still right.

Speaker 2 (02:04:07):
That's crazy, that's crazy. You're right, you nailed it.

Speaker 7 (02:04:09):
Because if they did have a Justin Turner from the
beginning of the season, if if they did have a
guy like that, or had an Edgar Martinez, that is
the proof is just there. You see that guy, you
talk to him, I mean me having played with him.
It was blatantly obvious. This is like Yoda and I'm
just a baby Jedi that knows nothing. It's a blatantly obvious.

(02:04:30):
So when a guy says something to you that has
been there. Paul Malletor was the hitting coach when I
was here, and he's Hall of Famer. He actually went
and got his gold jacket while we were It was
during the season, and he came up and just says
it was almost the knowledge was in the lack of
what he said. He came up and says, hey, I
need you to tell me what your biggest issues are

(02:04:53):
so that I know what to watch for.

Speaker 2 (02:04:54):
Now. That's a dude that was a Hall of famer.

Speaker 7 (02:04:56):
He obviously knew he could watch my swing and he
would be ab to point things out. He wanted to
know what I knew about my swing because I obviously
knew my swing better, so then he could watch it
through the same lens that he knows that I have
tenancies and pitfalls that I fall into. If you don't
have that in a hitting coach, bad job of picking
your hitting coach, first of all, because you need to

(02:05:18):
have the knowledge, and then you have to have something
inside that when I then impose that knowledge upon when
I share it with you the player, that the players like, yeah,
I can't wait to absorb that information. Not do you
know you know what you're talking about, because if they
have that, now you have nine individuals going up to
the dish going I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna sit

(02:05:40):
fastball and swing out of my ass even though I
don't have real power. And it's April and next thing
you know, it's O two and they strike out. And
that was after you had a guy at third base
lesson two out. So to me, there's so many things
that need to be blown up and start with just
putting a guy out there that actually knows what he's
talking about when it comes to hitting that works.

Speaker 6 (02:05:56):
I couldn't agree with you more and you said something
earlier about the translation, and I think this is the
problem with analytics. I actually really like looking and breaking
down like all these analytical parts of it, whether it
be two strike percentage or slugging percentage, ISO heat maps,
all those things. I am fascinated by looking at them.
The problem is is you can't look at that and
show a player that because they're athletes and they're trying

(02:06:19):
to do something extremely fast zo point three seconds, they
don't have time to draw that from their memory and
then try and put that in practice in the box,
all the while recognizing trying to line up their body,
time it out and put it in somewhere in the
field whether or not it's too hard. So there has
to be somebody like Edgar who said, I'm simplifying things
to take those analytics because it's a gamble when you're

(02:06:41):
up there, and that's what analytics helps you do. It
helps you take a better gamble going up there. The
problem is I still have to take the action. So
take it to a third grade level and say this
is what you do. You say it with confidence, and
then you move forward. And when you simplify it and
give a one word or a couple sentence that you
can say to yourself in the box with confidence, then
you can focus on the stuff you're actually trying to

(02:07:01):
do with just hit the ball. But if you're confused,
if there's too much going on, you're going to see
a bunch of unqualified at mats, which is what we
saw this year.

Speaker 3 (02:07:11):
I want to go further into that. I think there's
more of a conversation here. We've got Stevid SUSA, We've
got Bucky Jacobson here. It is our forty seventh annual.
Mariners weren't invited to the World Series specialty podcast here
on Sports Radio ninety three point three kJ R f M.
We were in the players edition of it, and there's
certainly a lot more to discuss with this Mariners team

(02:07:32):
and why they not only didn't make the play the
World Series this year, they didn't even make the playoffs.
We'll continue next right here on kJ R.

Speaker 1 (02:07:44):
Now back to the forty seventh than you old Mariners
weren't invited to the World Series specialty.

Speaker 3 (02:07:49):
Podcast show We can tell You.

Speaker 2 (02:07:56):
That hurts me. Yeah, that title hurts me. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:07:59):
I like it supposed to ge people's attention.

Speaker 2 (02:08:00):
Well it gets mine. It makes me mad. This is
the sweat.

Speaker 3 (02:08:03):
This is our version of grabbing Jerry by the shoulders.
And yeah, they see what we're doing there. Yeah, we
were talking about offensive philosophy. I knew that we would
once we got into it. Man, we had a lot
to chew on here. So let's pick up where we
left off on that previous conversation. Because if there was
one thing this year, I mean Bucky doing the show

(02:08:25):
with him every day, If I mean the word cloud
during baseball season, approach, I mean just complaining about approach, approach, approach,
And it was visible, There's no question about it.

Speaker 4 (02:08:37):
But Bucky was on that from I.

Speaker 3 (02:08:39):
Think Game three of the season and seeing approaches that
he didn't like. We had you on, though, Steven at
one point, and there there seemed to be if there
was any disagreement that you two had and me listening
to you talk about hitting, Bucky seemed to want it
simplified and you had made a suggestion that through Brant Brown,

(02:09:04):
that you have to focus in on that hitting is
so difficult today that if you don't narrow it down
to you know, a couple of things that you're looking
for at the plate, that you have no chance against
all one hundred mile per hour throwers. So let's flush
that out. What did you mean by that? And let's

(02:09:25):
see a few and Bucky are on the same page.
You're on opposite pages on this.

Speaker 2 (02:09:29):
Can I move farther away as I say this? Okay?

Speaker 6 (02:09:32):
Sure, that's no. I am all for simplification. I needed
it to be simplified for me, But I understood that
simplifying things isn't just I'm sitting for a fastball right
down the middle like every single that bat. There are
times that you can do that a lot of the times,
but in today's game, and I actually think you can

(02:09:53):
do it more against the hunter mount hour guys because
they don't know where it's going a lot of the time,
so you can you can kind of sit on a
certain pitch right down the middle. They make more mo
It's the starters that have a different amount of repertoire,
and you look at those percentages that Root Sports puts
out before the game, and it's very even. It's forty
two percent fastball now almost across the league. I think
the league is at like forty eight percent. Right, So

(02:10:14):
you have to have an idea of where you're looking
for the pitch. And if I'm looking in an area
that I'm never going to get it thrown to or
I don't do damage in I'm doing, I'm going up
to the bat, you know, with a disservice to myself.
So I have to know my own strength. I have
to know his own strength, and I have to know
what he's trying to get me to do, because you know,

(02:10:35):
when I first got into the league, it was heater
at you, heater at you, and then try and put
you away. Now it's all backwards, right. It's a lot
of times it's gets you with a soft pitch first
right down the middle, right and try and get you
to a place where what you're looking for early I'm
going to show you, and then I'm going to try
and get you to chase something out of the game.

Speaker 2 (02:10:56):
It's a cat and mouse game. It's a game of
tricking you.

Speaker 6 (02:10:58):
Right, Whereas before back of the day, it was like nope,
Let's see I got my stuff. Let's see if you
can hit it. And so I think you have to
play this game where it's like where can I be aggressive?
Where's the place where Okay, I'm okay chasing there, I'm
okay dictating where I'm going to get out.

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
Right.

Speaker 6 (02:11:13):
So if a guy like Brian Wu, who lives at
the top of the zone with his four seam that
is unhittable across the league, I'm not going to go
up to the plate and say, Okay, I'm gonna look
for the fastball up.

Speaker 2 (02:11:22):
I'm not going to hit that.

Speaker 6 (02:11:23):
Nobody in the league has shown that they can do
that so far in his first two to three years,
two years in the league, right, it's got like a
one hundred and one seventeen like ISO against, which is terrible. Right,
So I'm going to say, okay, I need to get
Brian wu fastball because it's seventy five percent right out
over the plate and I'm going to have to get
on top of it and hit a ground up in the middle.

(02:11:44):
To me, that's simple, right, That's a simple approach. Fastball out,
groundble up the middle. That's all I say to myself
and I'm willing if he you know, if he throws
that slider off, I'm going to chase it because I
cannot go up top with him and beat him up there.

Speaker 2 (02:11:56):
He's just too good with that heater.

Speaker 6 (02:11:58):
So you have to know where you're keeping it simple,
is what I was trying to allude to.

Speaker 2 (02:12:03):
No, and I'm with you.

Speaker 7 (02:12:04):
I mean, I get it, so, I mean just to
some degree, like the analytics back when I was playing,
first of all, like the first couple years of pro
ball was like a VHS tape, right, and I had
to afterwards there were in an iPad. Afterwards I had
to go rewind it and rewind it.

Speaker 2 (02:12:20):
That internet.

Speaker 4 (02:12:21):
Yeah, it was waiting for guys.

Speaker 2 (02:12:24):
This wasn't even there.

Speaker 7 (02:12:26):
Yeah, and just to watch the abs and so it
was not near as easy to get the information. The analytics,
if you will, even when I got to the big leagues,
was basically a sheet of paper, here's your starter, and
it was what pitches he throws percentage wise?

Speaker 2 (02:12:40):
In what counts? Now, here's the thing that where I was.

Speaker 7 (02:12:44):
I've always been on this, and I think that now
more people need to be on it, and then yet
it's fewer people that are on it is when you
say that now starting pitchers they might have four or
five six pitches and their fastball is going to be
less than half of the time, right, I mean you
got the occasional ones that are still sixty seventy percent fastballs. Right,
whether it's fastball and sinker, there's still is it's the heat,

(02:13:06):
it's timing one.

Speaker 2 (02:13:07):
That's what you got to go for.

Speaker 7 (02:13:08):
But if if somebody has something where it's fifty percent
heaters and then then they have four other pitches that
they decipher between the other, fine, But see that. To me,
I was a dude that was pitched backwards my whole life. Yeah,
like I was. So when I saw a guy that
I'm gonna say, Mike Mussina was a guy that mixed
it up right. I had fastball, had a cutter, had

(02:13:29):
he could sink it. He had a curveball, a little
bit of a slider, and he would throw a change
up even to ridies. Well, all of a sudden, if
it's I see a one to zero and he throws
eighty two percent fastballs, I'm thinking to myself, then it's
that eighteen percent that's me that he's gonna throw something
with a wrinkle in it right, or if it's he
starts guys off with with off speed pitch only twenty

(02:13:52):
percent of the time, that's me that he's going to
do that too. Now there's more people that need to
do that. It's the sit on it every one. We'll
just say how many times should we watch the first
couple of months of the season, it didn't matter what
pitcher it was, day after day, first pitch, slider right
down the d and they just take it with not
even a flinch to go at it, which tells me

(02:14:12):
that there was never there was never anything in house
that somebody's like, dude, I'm gonna jump on that thing
one time. Because even if you hit that thing foul,
you swing and your helmet flies off, and you were
you were kind on it and you swing and miss,
it still tells the pitcher, ooh, oh, he ain't just
taking it for he's not, because that the whole just

(02:14:34):
they could just flip a get me over wrinkle in
there and nobody's even flinching at it. Next thing you know,
now they're in control and you're basically having those defensive abs.
So to me, I don't it's not that I don't
agree with what you're saying. I think the most difficult
thing between now and back when I played is the
fact they call this strike now.

Speaker 2 (02:14:51):
That up pitch.

Speaker 7 (02:14:53):
But the thing is again, and this isn't me trying
to act like I would just be great in today's game.
My last thing I did every single day the early work.
Then I go take VP on the field, and then
I came back in and I would have a guy
throw me from about twelve to fifteen feet, sitting down
on a bucket, just throw stuff at my shoulders, kind
of zipping a little fastball in there from a short

(02:15:13):
distance to where I just had to be short.

Speaker 2 (02:15:16):
That's it.

Speaker 7 (02:15:16):
Because now if I can, if I can hit a
pitch that's at the top of the zone, I'm short
to it. I'm training myself to be short to it. Now,
all of a sudden, I don't have to be in
a hurry on the fastball, which makes me more susceptible
to chase. And I had plenty of chase in my game.
It was usually when I was getting too big.

Speaker 6 (02:15:31):
Yeah, I completely agree with you. And what it sounds
like you're saying is you had different clubs in your
bag when you needed to take a shot when you
could downgrade, when you could stay short. Hey, maybe I'm
gonna get this guy a little bit more out front.
Right when you play golf and you're one hundred yards out,
you're not gonna bring out your driver. And I think
that's what these guys were doing. They were just always
playing with their driver. There's some guys you got to downshift,

(02:15:52):
you got to bring out the fifty eight degree and
shoot them the right field right, or stay a little
bit shorter than your normal. So I think you combine
the ideas of like, I have to be trained to
be a hitter and not just trained to just go
yard all the time. Yeah, and so even though the approach,
the approach can be spot on, if you're not willing

(02:16:13):
to commit as a hitter, then you're gonna be off.
And what I mean by that is in today's game,
and it starts at the youth level, and it works
all the way through the minor leagues. And I've watched
it across a couple of minor league organizations that I've
spent some time with over the last couple of years.
There is a distinct difference in the training regiment between
when you and I were playing you me and then now,
and it is training. It is training the swing and

(02:16:36):
not training the hitter right. And so when I was playing,
it was I have to figure out a way to
win this at bat right. We see that with Freddie Freeman.
He'll shoot the ball to left field, right, he'll turn
on a pitch when he needs to. He knows what
club to pull out and when it's time. That's why
he's a very tough matchup for anybody. The problem is
is we could talk approach all you want, if you're

(02:16:57):
not willing to say, I'm just gonna take my single
here the other way, or I'm gonna, you know, try
and hit a ball, you know, in the gap instead
of just I'm going I'm going deep every time because
the yard, yeah, one hundred percent. Because that's the problem
is when you get a first pitch breaking ball, you're
trying to take the heater four hundred and ninety feet.
You can't pull the trigger on that breaking ball, even
if it's a sloppy first pitch getting me over. And

(02:17:17):
that's what the league found out is you have to
be able to say Nope, with this guy, he's got
too many pitches. I'm gonna stay short to the ball,
I'm gonna down shift, I'm gonna stay up the middle
and keep it simple. And then you get the mistake
breaking ball first pitch. Well, now you're set up to
just catch it right. But if you're so over committed
to hitting a heater deep way out of the park,
I don't even think you can get to the approach.

Speaker 3 (02:17:36):
All right, Steven susa is here, Bucky Jacobson is here.
It's the players edition of our forty seventh annual. Mariners
Weren't invited to the World Series Specialty Podcast for you
right here on Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.

Speaker 1 (02:17:54):
Now back to the forty seventh than you old Mariners
weren't invited to the World Series Specialty Podcast show and
Chuck Powell on Sports Radio ninety three point three kjr FM.

Speaker 3 (02:18:05):
Welcome back to the forty seventh annual. Mariners went invited
to the World Series Specialty Podcast. My name is Chuck Powell.
We did the Mollywop guys in the first two hours.
We bring the players in here for our final two hours.
We've got Steven Susy here, We've got Bucky Jacobs in here,
and we have a lot of things to discuss with
these gentlemen. So organizationally, Jerry Depoto says, I want a

(02:18:29):
guy that does think this way, we strike out too much.
I want a guy to teach what you just described, Steven,
And so he brings in Bran Brown and then it
doesn't work and then they abandoned the entire plan.

Speaker 4 (02:18:44):
So what went wrong with Brent Brown?

Speaker 6 (02:18:47):
Yeah, you know, I was with brenton la and I
love Bran I think he's a very intelligent hitting coach.
I think sometimes Brant's delivery can be a little bit off,
like he can get a little bit too hostile and
his delivery because he cares right and being a new
place and you're surrounded, you're like, hold on, they don't
do anything that I've ever done. I'm gonna have to
make some huge changes here. You're gonna kind of be

(02:19:07):
like a bowl in a china shop, right, You're gonna
you feel like you're going to the jungle. When you're
going to the jungle, you're gonna be a little bit
more hostile to kind of fight back on some things.
And so I think to Bran Brown is a terrific
hitting coach, and I think given the right situation, he'll succeed,
just like he did in Miami his first year in
in LA, Cardinals are gonna have four hundred this year
as a team.

Speaker 2 (02:19:25):
I wouldn't doubt it. The problem is.

Speaker 6 (02:19:30):
You have to be able to sit down and get
back to the person right and say, Okay, look, how
do I let this deliver it? Even though I know
my information is right because I've seen it be successful.
I've seen some of the best hitters do it this
way consistently throughout the league. But I still have to
take the time to ease my way to understand how
Bucky Jacobson is gonna take it on, how JP Crawford

(02:19:50):
is gonna receive this. Because if I come in, you know,
hot in hand and I'm like, you're wrong, You're not
doing it. We need to do this. This is why
we suck at offense. I'm probably not gonna get a
bunch of people on board right and so being able
to say, hey, listen compassionately, this is these guys that
have been super successful in this league. You guys have
the ability to do this. There is too much talent
on this team not to be able to do this.

(02:20:11):
But I need your commitment here. I need you to
ride this out with me, and I will wear it
for you guys if it doesn't work out. But I
trust me this will work. You have to kind of
take that route when you're trying to change an entire
hitting culture, because like cherry's a strong personality, Andy McKay's
a strong personality, Bran Brown's a strong personality. And when

(02:20:32):
you get three guys that are got different points of
view and strong personality and one's not one to say, hey,
I got to take the back road and kind of
ease this in right like the art of War, then
you know there's gonna be a lot of bickering and pushback.

Speaker 7 (02:20:46):
Well yeah, I mean that's where it brings back kind
of something we started with the human element of the game.
So now all of a sudden we have all this data, right,
and then you have an old school guy. I mean
I played with Brown back in Triple A. I can
ought one, and so I get the personality part of it.
And so you have to figure out how to play

(02:21:08):
each instrument, how you could talk to me. I would
have gravitated perfect to a guy like no, meathead, that
ain't gonna work. You're gonna just let him flip a
braking ball in there. You're not going to one time
sit and actually buy into going the other way. They're
not giving you anything into yank down the line. I
would have been okay with it, but not everybody. I
can guarantee you, a guy like Julio was not going

(02:21:30):
to respond to that unless it's coming from the right person.

Speaker 2 (02:21:33):
Right.

Speaker 7 (02:21:33):
So, if you're a hitting coach or you're the offensive coordinator,
you got to figure out, how how do I play
this instrument, how do I play that one? How do
I get the most out of them? And that means
talk to him about how they are being human. I
talked about Paul Molotor. Paul molotors the idea the best
communication is the guy that can listen right first and foremost.
You got to be able to hear what it is

(02:21:54):
that somebody wants you to help them with. But you
can't just jump in and say, I'm going to help
you this. Well, that's not really what my biggest issue is, coach, No,
it is your biggest issue. Okay, Well, now we're already
not off starting on a very good foot. So to me,
the idea of formulating some sort of translator, and if
it's not, if it can't be the same guy. If
Edgar can decipher the analytics the way that maybe the

(02:22:17):
best person could as far as breaking all this stuff
down and wabbah, and I don't even I know what
they are, but I don't know how important each one
individually is to get the information and then have somebody
say this is what's really important for this guy. He
really thrives in this with this heat map, it's showing
me this and then give that information to the translator

(02:22:37):
to then translate to the human that you come to know.

Speaker 2 (02:22:41):
And I'm like, Susan is tough. He's a hard nose dude.

Speaker 7 (02:22:43):
This guy, he's a little bit more on the offensive
side of things. So let's not try to paint him
into a thing where he can't swing at a pitch
that's d high but it's two inches off the plate outside.
If we let him think about driving balls out to
right center field and making sure he's on time for
that one. You don't have to be on time for
the heater in they're not giving him that. He's if

(02:23:05):
he's thinking that one, even when they flip him a
breaking ball, he'll buggy whip that one to left fieldtal
So it's a matter of I can under Once I
understand all the instruments in my symphony, now all of
a sudden, I can teach them how to play and
it actually comes out as music versus noise?

Speaker 2 (02:23:20):
Who is this? Who is this the box? Who did that?

Speaker 6 (02:23:25):
I have no idea. I like it hate it. I
got to know what it is.

Speaker 2 (02:23:29):
First. I didn't ask anybody about it.

Speaker 3 (02:23:30):
It's the it's the it's where they that means, I
hit a ball in my hot zone. Yeah, and then
they were proud of that, and Bucky and Eye every
day will be like Pitcher knows where your hot zone is.
You know, you're taking too many pitches in the strike
zone right now. So I didn't know if that was

(02:23:51):
a brand Brown thing or if that was maybe some
other invention that somebody else made. But I didn't like it,
and they abandoned it. If you noticed about half.

Speaker 6 (02:24:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm totally on board with everything you're saying.
These guys have to adapt this approach. When I think
back to the end of the year when when Edgar
and Dan came in, there was this one game and
I can't remember who they were playing, It was one
of the first games that Dan had taken over as
a manager, and they were down by four or five,
and I watched them have consecutive at bats single single, single, walk, double,

(02:24:26):
single single. It was like six or seven consecutive at
bats where they were just taking their hit, passing the baton,
taking their hit, passing the baton. In order to win
a game, you have to be able to win a
game different ways, like you have to. You can't just
come into the park every single day and expect a
walk and slug and beat everybody like it just does
not happen. You have to have a litany of ways
to win different games. Luckily, they have the pitching the

(02:24:50):
best in the league in my opinion, to keep them
in the game, and so they should have a utility
belt of different ends, and they haven't for the last
four years. But when Dan and a came in that
calmness to say that this is gonna work if we
just passed baton, trust the guy next to you, don't
too much, don't worry about boxing him up in certain counts,

(02:25:11):
and the chase. The chase comes, the lack of chase comes,
and the walks come from being disciplined in what you're
trying to do, you will walk and you won't chase
as much if you focus on what you're trying to do.
That's what happened. The most times I walk in my
career was one hundred. I didn't think about walking. It
was because the guys were afraid to throw me in
the zone and they threw the ball out because they

(02:25:31):
didn't want me. They were trying to get me to chase.
It wasn't because I was going up there walking or
like I'm gonna work this walk. And so I think
having the ability to understand, like I have to hit
in the big leagues, I got to hit, and I
got to know what I'm hitting for and stay disciplined
to it, and that will turn into walks. I'm not
going to be a reckless hitter, but I'm going to
be a disciplined one will work it in.

Speaker 3 (02:25:49):
Yeah, all right, Steven Suza, Bucky Jacobson, Chuck Powell with you.
It is our number two of our Specialty podcast. I
won't mention the name this time.

Speaker 2 (02:25:57):
I'll just let that go.

Speaker 3 (02:25:59):
But we do have a few other things to talk about,
including this pitching staff. Yes, I'm going to make the
two hitters talk about great pitching. In our next segment,
it's Sports Radio ninety three point three KJRFM.

Speaker 1 (02:26:15):
Now back to the forty seventh annual Old Mariners Weren't

Speaker 4 (02:26:26):
My name is Chuck Powell.

Speaker 3 (02:26:27):
This is the first time we've ever done this, the
forty seventh Annual Mariners Weren't invited to the World Series
Specialty podcast two hours of you know, a bunch of
baseball nerds discussing the Mariners and their plight in the
first two hours, and then we turn it over to
the players here in our final two hours.

Speaker 2 (02:26:47):
Of the podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:26:48):
Former Mariners Bucky Jacobson and Steven Sousa with us here
and let's talk about something that Bucky never wants to discuss,
great pitching, because that is the life blood of this
Mariners organization right now, and according to Jerry, it's not
going anywhere. And frankly, this is the part that is
most exasperating, I would think to all of us that

(02:27:11):
are rooting for the Mariners, is that you have a
one of a kind pitching staff not only great from
one to five, not only healthy all season long this
past year, but also cheap, under control young. I mean,
they should be able to repeat this for a few
years to come. Theoretically, knock on Wood and to have

(02:27:35):
wasted a second season, and especially this year because you
couldn't generate enough offense, it's just a sin, especially in
an era of expanded playoff where you now twelve teams
make the postseason. So Steven, I mean, this pitching staff
was phenomenal this year and I don't see any reason why.

Speaker 2 (02:27:57):
It's going to stop. No, not at all.

Speaker 6 (02:27:59):
It's one of the things when you turn on your
TV and when I watch the game, I am so
excited to watch how each one of these guys go
about their business, because from Logan Gilbert to George Kirby
to Bryce Miller, they all kind of have a different
way that they go about it.

Speaker 2 (02:28:11):
Yet they're so good at what they do.

Speaker 6 (02:28:15):
Say what you want about the Mariners offense and their philosophy,
and they're trying to figure it out, you know, bringing
in different guys, and I'm sure they'll make the adjustments
in the years to come. They have nailed it on
the pitching side, right. They whoever they bring into the
bullpen is an automatic dude. They can use Colin Snyder
as the perfect example of that, right, Taylor Salcedo comes
over here. He's an unbelievable lefty specialist and even can

(02:28:36):
get out righty's and you know they've they've just done
such a good job at hammering that home and using
analytics in that department, because I think in any department analytics,
because the ball is in your hand, you're in control
of what you're gonna throw. I think that's when you
can use that. You can slow it down. You can
process the information a lot slower than you can as
a hitter. They have been able to take wood, he's

(02:28:59):
been able to tay make that information, pass it to
those guys, say hey, here's what you're really good at.
Let's just be really good at this, right and make
those guys believe in it. And so it's a it's
a subculture because now when guys, guys want to sign
here as a picture right, because they know that guys
are coming over here and they're getting better, they're getting
more years on their career because now they're being taught
different things to do in the bullpen.

Speaker 2 (02:29:21):
So and even on the.

Speaker 6 (02:29:22):
Mound, and you know they need they have to take
advantage of this over the next couple of years or
it'll be a shame. I don't know that we'll ever
see a rotation like this in the next couple decades.

Speaker 2 (02:29:33):
I mean, this is something unreal now, I'm with you.

Speaker 7 (02:29:35):
I mean the fact that Luiska Steele, who it just
looks absolutely nasty. I mean, for a large part of
the year was your worst starting pitcher. That's crazy to say.
By the end of the season, he probably was, Yeah,
you're going to a bullpen in the playoffs. What I'm like,
all star? Yeah, I know, Yeah, that's how good the
picture staff was.

Speaker 2 (02:29:56):
I'm with you.

Speaker 7 (02:29:56):
I think that there's one thing, and we can get
into the individual guys depending on time, but the analytics
side of things there you get to that should help
you formulate a plan. You formulate a plan in the
clubhouse with your hitting coach about who you're gonna face
the starting pitcher, and then you modify that plan based
on the situation while you're on deck to then simplify

(02:30:18):
it to where here's what I'm thinking about I'm going
to do as a pitcher. You spend four days thinking
about it, right, and especially if you're watching that team
hit against another arriety that you're is out there pitching
the day before or two days before, you're watching how
these hitters are having tendencies. Oh, he looks like he's
really pole happy right now. I was already thinking I

(02:30:38):
was gonna abuse him with my split finger. I'm definitely
going to do that. You formulate a chess match like
where you're going to implement this strategy, they're going to
fall for it. And I think that, yeah, it is
easier because you get to wait, you know, until that
time clock's expiring, and you get to just kind of
execute your game plan.

Speaker 2 (02:30:56):
They have to then react to it.

Speaker 7 (02:30:57):
But I don't care how much more or the organization's analytics,
if they're better, or if they've just translated him better,
or I mean, I think Woody. We give Woody a
lot of credit for what he does, because you're right,
it doesn't matter. You'll get guys off the trash heat
from somewhere else, throw them in the bullpen, and they
become all stars here. The pitching, the starting pitching, that

(02:31:18):
is historic.

Speaker 2 (02:31:19):
And in my opinion, I'm with you. I think it's
the best.

Speaker 7 (02:31:21):
It was the best rotation one through five, maybe one
through six when you have some of the guys coming up.
So I just think that this organization does a masterful
job of finding talent in the draft and then fostering
it to where it can one stay healthy and then
figure out a way to go out there and execute
even when guys know what's coming. I mean, this isn't

(02:31:41):
It's one thing to have a Bryce Miller burst on
the scene and he's throws shutt hees for first three,
or Brian Will goes out there and he can't hit anything.
But he had Brian Wu even with the injuries a
couple of different times, he still had twenty plus starts.
Everybody knew he's gonna have a low arm angle and
he's gonna ride that fast wall up high, and yet
guys couldn't figure out how to take a short enough

(02:32:02):
hack to get to it. So there's something that they
have where it's just a special combination of young talent,
and then they're like, that's fine. I thought there was
gonna be a fall off after the All Star break,
no offense. I thought it would just be natural for
the humans to go, you know, what. Yeah, I'm gonna
I'm not trying to give it up, but I'm losing
some concentration because I feel like, after I've given up

(02:32:24):
one run in the first inning, we probably lost. I'm
probably getting a nail here. And instead these guys didn't
do that. They did the exact option betterday. Yeah, I
gave up one in the first that's fine, I'm throwing
up five zeros.

Speaker 6 (02:32:36):
I one hundred percent agree with you. I thought the
same thing because it's it's so much to ask of
a starting pitcher to make thirty starts in a year,
go seven innings, six to seven innings, and stay underneath
three runs, Like for thirty starts, that's a lot to ask.
And they had four guys that did it. They had
four crazy five that almost did it right. Brian Woo
made twenty two starts, the wrest of them made thirty plus.

(02:32:58):
I mean, and they've done that the last three years.
I mean, it's so incredible what they've been doing and
they just finished to the end. To me, it's a
testament to how good their stuff is, right, and they
feed off each other. It's a culture in the pitching
department that they know. You heard Logan Gilbert kind of
talk about it throughout the year that they like hanging
out with each other, they talk to each other about pitching,

(02:33:18):
they push each other, they work out together like that's
the kind of stuff that creates these kind of dynasty
pitching departments. And so you know they're not going to
have this forever. Logan Gilbert's getting closer and closer to
free agency. You know, Bryce Miller still got a ton
of time and Brian Wu has a ton of time.
But look, like I said, the Baltimore Orioles would kill

(02:33:40):
to have a pitching stuff. Can you imagine if the
Baltimore Oreals had a pitching stuff like this, they would
have ran through the whole postseason.

Speaker 3 (02:33:45):
Well, that leads me to just just a question that
I have for both of you. I mean, this is
an organization that as many issues as they've had in
creating offense, teaching offense, offensive philosophy, drafting offense, they're obviously
they are the best in the sport at identifying good talent,
drafting it, developing it, and keeping it healthy. Yeah, they

(02:34:09):
are the best in the sport right now at it.
So considering that they might have the ability to hey,
we'll just develop another one. Would you trade one of
these five guys in order to get that bat that
they have so much difficulty trying to develop?

Speaker 2 (02:34:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (02:34:29):
Well yeah, if you're not going to go spend right,
if you're going to have to give up a commodity
that somebody else like Baltimore wants, and they're going to
give you a bat that you feel is going to
come here and you're not going to screw it up,
then yeah, I most certainly would, because I do think
that they have the capability. It would suck to say
goodbye to something but hate it, but I would.

Speaker 2 (02:34:49):
I would. I would say Kirby, you can go.

Speaker 7 (02:34:54):
As much as he's been unbelievable, that just pounding the zone,
and I think he hasn't been that. I don't think
he is going to change. I don't think his numbers
are going to ever drop off. He's going to be
a legitimate starter. But if you're giving that away and
everybody else has to look at his numbers and project
where they think he's going to be possibly an All
star for years to come, then they're going to have

(02:35:15):
to give you a good stick. And if you can't
go get a free agent to sign here without having
to overpay by a significant amount. Then go out and
get somebody that's controllable, that's ready to come in here.

Speaker 2 (02:35:25):
They don't really have a choice.

Speaker 6 (02:35:27):
Yeah, it stinks, right when you're kind of forced into
that position, you know. I do agree that they do
a terrific job of drafting and developing, and I think
they'll continue to do it. I think having five guys
like this, though, I don't know that anybody will be
able to do this again. Like Emerson Hancock's a really
good picture. Yeah, and he's going to pitch in the
big leagues for a long time. But he's he's not

(02:35:47):
George Kirby or Bryce Miller or Brian wo White, Like
they're right, those guys have special stuff like that comes
once in a generation, Like Brian Mouoitt throws a fastball
seventy five percent of the time and the league cannot
figure out how to hit it right. Like if this
figures out how to throw a breaking ball, and like
a good breaking ball, he's gonna roll off. Cy Young's
like it's just part of his job. And so to
say that they'll develop these kind of guys, I'm hard

(02:36:11):
pressed to believe that that's fair. With that being said,
I would still trade one of them, like you have to,
because you don't need five starters in the playoffs. And
if that's your goal, then you need more offensive help,
and you can get controllable offensive help with the Baltimore Orioles. Right,
they have a ton of guys out there over there
that are under minimum, just like some of these guys

(02:36:31):
are for a long time, and you can kind of swap.
They need pitching, you need offense, and hopefully it was
like a marriage bolsters, you know, the offense, Like you're saying.

Speaker 3 (02:36:40):
Yeah, seems like there could be a marriage there. And
here's the thing. As frustrating as this season has been,
getting a couple of months removed from it because you
have this good at pitching, I'm gonna be right back
in spring training next year saying we should be a
playoff team and we should be contending for a World Series.
Whether or not that's gonna happen. I've burned, been burned

(02:37:00):
twice and back to back years predicting playoffs, But I
believe in my analysis. I believe in the statement that
as long as you don't have an atrocious offense with
this kind of pitching. You're going to get into the
playoffs and then you become incredibly dangerous.

Speaker 2 (02:37:15):
Let's close out.

Speaker 3 (02:37:16):
This segment with this question, which of the five would
you least want to face?

Speaker 2 (02:37:21):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (02:37:22):
Which of the five it was would give you the
most trouble?

Speaker 7 (02:37:25):
Was Luis Castillo for a long time, probably still would
be Castillo for me? Probably, Yeah, that was still would
be Castillo. I mean that chump. Yeah, it's the movement
on a power fastball. It's the movement how he can
get on top of that sinker. I would hit that
thing off my ankle multiple times.

Speaker 2 (02:37:48):
Was your roll around?

Speaker 7 (02:37:48):
Were you a guy that never went to the ground
kind of that?

Speaker 2 (02:37:52):
I just wanted to make sure.

Speaker 7 (02:37:53):
Never there's never a chance that a pitcher was going
to see me waller around even when he slid, he
didn't go to the group. Yeah, think about that.

Speaker 6 (02:38:01):
I did you Would you get hit and just rip
your gloves off while staring at the pitcher?

Speaker 7 (02:38:05):
No, I never rubbed it. I never rubbed it. It
was old school, Susan. I mean we're not that different,
but we're a couple of decades. Yeah, I would, Yeah,
I would wear it and then yeah, I give him
a little look like, really, that's what you're gonna do.

Speaker 2 (02:38:19):
Just hit me with that ball of yarn. Yeah, didn't
hurt checked the ball.

Speaker 3 (02:38:22):
If it's dented, are you going to dodge the question
any further or you want to thinking about it?

Speaker 2 (02:38:27):
I was buying time these guys. You know.

Speaker 6 (02:38:29):
I was gonna originally say Brian Wu, but I feel
like I would have a chance because his punch out
rate is not high. So it's one of those at
bats where you're like, you're probably not going to strike out,
You're just not going to put anything in play with
with hard contact. Logan Gilbert from me man like all
six seven of him with a huge extension. He's got
the splitter, he's up to ninety seven, ninety eight, and

(02:38:51):
like five different pitches that he can throw at anytime,
a different a big slider, a bullet slider. I would
get frustrated with him, right And I was a low
ball hitter, so I like the ball underneath the zone,
and so a lot of his pitches where he gets
guys is underneath. He would dominate me for sure, until
he left that heater down the middle or the hang
of the bullet slider.

Speaker 2 (02:39:11):
He'd have a problem there.

Speaker 7 (02:39:13):
I think there would be a there would be an
opportunity against all of these guys that if you said,
I'm going up here today and my first two abs,
I'm raking something. I'm just coming out of my shoes
because these guys. I've never seen a group of five
different guys that all of them rare back and just
pound it in the zone. Here it is more often

(02:39:34):
than not it was fast balls too. I would have
been like, oh, this series, I'm eating or I'm going
over and I'm probably only seeing you know, ten pitches
the entire series.

Speaker 2 (02:39:44):
Do you know?

Speaker 6 (02:39:45):
Do you know how many managers have to juggle the
idea of my starter is in the seventh inning with
eighty pitches, do I let him keep going or even
ninety pitches? Like that's not today's game. And these guys
are not afraid of any hitter in the league, and
they'll go right at him. And it's such a luxury
to have that most innings thrown and they're staying healthy.
Like this is where you tip your cap to what

(02:40:06):
the Marins have done with these guys.

Speaker 3 (02:40:07):
Dude. The Los Angeles Dodgers got to their third game
of the postseason, and we're out of starting pitchers, like
we don't have anybody left, ye, yeah, So we're just
going to do a bullpen game and then hopefully we
win early so that we don't have to extend this
because we don't want you to see our bullpen guys
any longer than you have to, because right now they're
fooling the world. Was there that was their approach. Meanwhile,

(02:40:29):
here are the Mariners. Not only do they have five
their original five healthy starters putting all all star performances together,
they were pitching their best and were their healthiest at
the end of the year and we couldn't get in
the damn playoffs to show that off. It stinks, all right,
One more segment, quick segment. On the other side, it's
Stevensuza Bucky Jacobs to Chuck Powell with you the forty

(02:40:50):
seventh annual Mariners Weren't invited to the World Series Specialty
podcast players addition on Sports Radio ninety three point three KHARFM.

Speaker 1 (02:41:02):
Now back to the forty seventh annual Old Mariners Weren't

Speaker 3 (02:41:13):
Final segment of our four hour extravaganza. The forty seventh annual.
Mariners weren't invited to the World Series Specialty Podcast Players Edition.
Here the last couple of hours, We've got Steven Souza here,
We've got Bucky Jacobson here. I'm just trying to guide
them through these couple of hours, and we just got
one more segment left, and so what is your wish

(02:41:36):
Ray Consela for this offseason?

Speaker 4 (02:41:39):
Bucky?

Speaker 3 (02:41:39):
I mean, this is the way I close things out
with the Mollywop guys in the first couple of hours.
What's your wish for this offseason? What is it that
puts this team over the top? So we don't have
a forty eighth annual Mariners weren't invited to the World
Series Specialty Podcast.

Speaker 7 (02:41:54):
Well, I mean, I don't know specific. I haven't let
myself dive into who's a vail. I mean, unless I
can just go out there kidnap a judge Otani, I'll
take that soda.

Speaker 2 (02:42:06):
Yeah, Jo throw Sodo and I do love.

Speaker 4 (02:42:08):
Soto's a free agent.

Speaker 2 (02:42:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:42:10):
So are you saying just go all out, whatever it costs,
whatever it takes.

Speaker 2 (02:42:14):
A Soto Rodriguez outfield? Yeah, amazing i'd be curious to
see I mean not knowing.

Speaker 7 (02:42:20):
I don't know Soto. You've you played against him, I mean,
you know guys that know him. I'd be curious to
find out if he's a dude that I like. His
His antics at times annoy me, and yet I have
to then remind myself I actually did a very similar
sweep my path away, and I did stare at pictures
from time to time, so it's like it annoys me.

(02:42:43):
He's one of those guys that I think I hate
when he's on the other team, especially when it's the Yankees,
but I probably would love him when he's on my team.

Speaker 2 (02:42:49):
So i'd be curious to see if he's a dude
that I love.

Speaker 3 (02:42:51):
Those four to twenty on base forty four homer guys.

Speaker 7 (02:42:54):
Yeah, just get on bass. Yeah no, I would. I
would for sure take me a Soto if I can.

Speaker 3 (02:43:00):
So that's your wish, Just go all in and get
the one big free agent. And I mean, I'm telling
you right now, you make the playoffs with Juan Soto,
add into this team and you have a very good
shot of making it to the World Series with this
pitching that you have here.

Speaker 6 (02:43:15):
I think I mean, obviously it changes everything for them
if they sign a guy like Jan Soda, right, and
to your point, like I love it, Like I wasn't
a huge antis guy from other guys on the on
the field, Like I wasn't huge when Marcus Stroman would
do his stuff on the field and draw attention. But
when you talk to Sodo and you ask him why
he does it, he has a very particular answer at

(02:43:38):
what he's trying to do, and it's very calculated. He
is such a smart hitter and he's trying to pull
something out of the picture every time he does those things.
That's why he looks back out sees how they react,
and it's an interesting conversation that we can have for
another time on why he does those things. But he
would instantly change this offense, right, Like hitting behind Julio
takes the pressure off of him. He's had the pressure

(02:44:00):
off of him. We talk about having guys come in
that have had those types of rules. He's been in
that role since he broke into the big leagues, so
he takes a pressure off Julio able to play right
field here for the next ten years alongside him. I
just think that would be amazing to have.

Speaker 2 (02:44:14):
Is that likely?

Speaker 6 (02:44:15):
Probably not? Yeah, I think having someone like Paul Goldschmidt
come over here, who's very similar to Justin Turner, very smart,
good work ethic, probably not as vocal as Justin Turner,
more of a lead by example type of thing, but
he will keep guys accountable. And I still think he's
got a lot left in the tank, right And he
comes into a youthful team, like kind of a new

(02:44:37):
purpose of a team to kind of lead them. I
think he would be a good addition to this ball club.

Speaker 2 (02:44:43):
You weren't an Arizona together. He was my lockermate, one
of my favorite teammates by far. Yeah, all I hear
about how awesome he is.

Speaker 6 (02:44:50):
He's the best man, and one thing you learn from
him is how to go about your business as a pro.
He's in the same place every day for one hundred
and sixty two games. So if it's fourth, you know
where Paul's at, Like if it's four forty five, if
it's two fifteen, Jo it's unbelievable and it inspires you
to like, Okay, if this guy's doing it, he's a
Hall of Famer and putting up these numbers like I

(02:45:12):
better be doing something like that right. And that's the
kind of attitude that like Jose Ramirez has where he's
he's the playing the hardest, he's working the hardest. And
so when your best player is like that and setting
the tone and he's a grinder like he got right,
it raises the bar exactly if everybody else.

Speaker 3 (02:45:29):
My wish is just and it's one of the reasons
why we wanted to put you guys together on this podcast.
My wish is just to get your offensive philosophy down.
I think it's the only reason we're not talking about
a third straight trip to the playoffs, and maybe we've
lost the chance to play in the World Series here

(02:45:50):
in the last I would even go back to the
year they made the playoffs because you got up to
such a slow start. Maybe you win the division if
you didn't wait to heat up until July. So, whatever
that is, whatever you had before Burnett, get together, figure
out exactly what you want to be as an offensive organization,
who you want to teach it, and for the love

(02:46:12):
of God, please do not get off to another slow
start with the Bats next year. It solves everything. We're
not talking about a team that missed the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (02:46:20):
By a lot.

Speaker 3 (02:46:21):
We're talking about a couple of games each of the
last year. We were ahead of the Rangers at the
end of the season a year ago going into the
last weekend of the season, and they won the World Series,
for goodness sake, So it's not that far off. Don't
be atrocious offensively, and you will make the playoffs next

(02:46:41):
year and have a shot at making it to the
World Series. It doesn't seem like a big ask, does it.
You know, I'll hire you two guys.

Speaker 6 (02:46:48):
Let's go. Let's get a think tank going love it.
The interesting thing on that, you know, it seems like
we're so close. But over the last couple of years,
if you look at who's made the playoffs, almost every
single team that's made the playoffs has been top ten
in offense, which is so weird because there's such a
narrative around pitching wins championships, and we have this great pitching,
but the Phillies, the Yankees, the.

Speaker 3 (02:47:10):
Mets, the Dodgers offense, No, you gotta win with pitching
in the postseason.

Speaker 6 (02:47:14):
Well, because I think when you get to the postseason,
you have to beat somebody, right, you have to have
a Freddie Freeman step up and hit a homer. You
have to offensively beat teams because both teams usually have
some type of good pitching to get there. But I
think you have to be able to win games offensively.
In the postseason. There's just not that many games that
are won one nothing, two to one, Like it's a homer,

(02:47:37):
it's a move guys over, it's it's collectively taking these
at bats to win. And I know that's probably not
the popular opinion, but I think just based off the
last couple of years, like Arizona's a perfect example last year,
Like they had Merrill, Kelly and Zach Gallon, that's it, right,
and then they were Paul Seawell's in the pen. Those
are the three pitchers that really carried them the whole way.
Their offense was Corbyn Carroll. They were scoring runs at

(02:48:01):
a premium. They were number two in the league in
offense and in number one and stolen bases, and so
Rangers were number one in offense in the league, right,
So you had number one and number two in there,
and then they beat the Phillies. Arizona beat the Phillies,
who was number three, and so I think that Astros
were number five.

Speaker 2 (02:48:16):
Rangers number one.

Speaker 6 (02:48:17):
So you had the top five offenses in the last
four teams that were left last year, and so I
think there there's a place where it's like, I have
some of the best hitters here that when the moment rises,
they're going to take take me there. Yankees don't make
it to the World Series without one Soto on that homer.

Speaker 2 (02:48:31):
Yeah, well, I don't.

Speaker 3 (02:48:32):
Want to think of it that way, because we're a
long way for one of the best five offense.

Speaker 7 (02:48:37):
That all I would say is, I don't think you
are If you just adjust your mentality and move a
guy over and get a guy in.

Speaker 2 (02:48:44):
I don't think you're that far away.

Speaker 7 (02:48:46):
So well, just have our superstar play like a superstar
like he's capable of playing, and you don't have to
add on Sodo. I just need the rest of the
dudes to just not puke on yourself every time there's
situationational baseball arises. Now you really look at the numbers,
and you're talking about hundreds of hits and abs. It
doesn't take a whole heck of a lot of get

(02:49:08):
the guy over, don't make poor base running mistakes. You
don't have to do a ton to go from where
they were this year to where they could have been,
and that's saying something.

Speaker 2 (02:49:16):
Because it was. It was atrocious as far as the
offense goes.

Speaker 3 (02:49:19):
Awesome stuff, gentlemen, Thank you very much, appreciate you coming in,
of course, Stevid Susa, Bucky Jacobson. We wrap it up,
hopefully this is the one and only one we do
of like this, you know, last one, the very last one.

Speaker 4 (02:49:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll send it out.

Speaker 2 (02:49:35):
We'll set finale. That's right, finale. That's right.

Speaker 3 (02:49:38):
It was the beginning and the finale all in one
fail swoop. Well, here it goes. The offseason begins. We'll
see what kind of moves that they make, and of
course the Stove podcast will be lit here soon, so
make sure you're listening for that. For Stevid SUSA and
Bucky Jacobson and andrews Hurst and the Mollywop Boys. My

(02:49:58):
name is Chuck Pyle. Thanks for listening, and enjoy the
off season.

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Ep 45 - 47th Annual "Mariners Weren't Invited to the World Series" Show.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 45 - 47th Annual "Mariners Weren't Invited to the World Series" Show.