March 28, 2025 • 35 mins
Tim Cates sits down with NFL referee Carl Cheffers for an insightful conversation about Cheffers' remarkable career as an official, how referees prepare for each game, and his deep-rooted connection to the sport—shaped by his father’s influence both as a coach and referee. When discussing the preparation that goes into each game, Cheffers revealed the extensive training that NFL referees undergo. It’s not just about understanding the rulebook; it’s about studying game footage, analyzing trends, and ensuring physical fitness. Cheffers also discussed the relationship between referees and coaches and the important mentors in his career.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From high school to college to the pros. He's a
football official in the NFL since two thousand, a head
referee since two thousand and eight. He's refereed three Super
Bowls with some of the greatest names, coaches, players that
have ever played football. He is Carl Cheffers and he
(00:20):
joins us now on episode seventy eight of the Masters
in Coaching podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well, welcome into episode seventy eight of the Masters in
Coaching podcast here on iHeartRadio. Thank you for listening, Thank
you for downloading and watching whatever platform you are using.
We certainly appreciate it. We've had a lot of guests
on the podcast, a lot of coaches, administrators, Olympians, gold medalists,
and finally we have an NFL referee. I am fired up.
(00:51):
Longtime official, going back to his days here in southern
California at the high school level, then at the college
level in the Pac Ten the WAX. Since two thousand,
he has been an official in the NFL, first as
a side judge and since two thousand and eight as
a head referee. He has been the head referee of
three Super Bowls and most recently Super Bowl fifty seven
in Arizona when the Chiefs beat the Eagles. Carl Cheffers
(01:14):
as our guest. Carl, thank you for being with us
here on the podcast. How you doing, I'm doing great? Wow,
what a great opportunity to join you today. I really
appreciate the opportunity and look forward to to our discussion.
Thank you for the great intro there. Absolutely well deserved.
The NFL is in its off season. But for referees,
(01:35):
it's not a full time job for you guys. You
guys have stuff you guys do outside of flying around
on Sundays and Mondays and refereeing NFL games. What's your
off season like as an NFL referee, Carl?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, certainly most of us, you know, have other jobs,
you know, because the NFL is seasonal, so most of
the officials have other jobs. I was a car battery
salesman for many years. If you can imagine that. The
company I work for made you know, batteries for all
the major retailers, and I worked in that business for
over forty years. I had the pleasure of retiring from
(02:10):
that a couple of years ago. But most of us
have full time jobs, and in the off season, you know,
we do get a little breakaway. But sitting right here
to my left is my off season tests. So we're
trying to stay fresh. And there's one hundred questions here
that I'm going through and that generates interaction amongst us.
So we'll we try to keep up on the latest
(02:33):
and stay fresh in the off season.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
NFL officials, what does a typical week look for you
guys during a regular season? A lot of fans are curious.
I mean, we know what the players and the teams
go through leading up to a season, leading up to
a game week, what does that look like for an
NFL referee?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So you know, usually I'm at the airport by six
o'clock on Saturday morning heading to my game. And you know,
if it's a normal one o'clock, you know, Sunday game,
then I'm leaving early Saturday morning to go whatever my
destination is. And I'll get there, you know, sometime in
the afternoon usually, and I run a two and a
half hour pregame with the rest of the crew. There's
(03:13):
nine of us on the crew, seven on the field,
two in the replay booth, and so I'll run a
meeting and Saturday afternoon for two and a half hours,
We'll go to dinner, go to bed early, and then
we get up the next morning. We're at the game
site three hours ahead of time, and then of course
the game lasts for another three hours and then we
are in a hurry to get back to the airport
(03:34):
to try to get back to work on Monday. So
you know, that's kind of how the weekend goes. And
then certainly, you know, on we have work to do,
certainly you know, football work to do during the week
and balancing work and family and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But you know, Monday, we're reviewing.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
The game, trying to you know, critique it for good
things and things we need to do better. You know,
the NFL has an extensive grading process that they go
through on these games, and we only have one game
a week, so they have six days to uh to
you know, grade it. So you know, Tuesday usually the
initial grades come out and we're kind of working through those.
(04:15):
Wednesday the grades are final, and uh so we're kind
of you know working through that. In the meantime, we're
preparing for the coming week. So you know, Tuesday and Wednesday,
I'm scouting the two teams that we're going to be
facing this next week. You know, Thursday is when I
put the pregame together, so my team is uh, you know,
(04:36):
providing me with with plays from our game and the
two game two teams that are coming up. And then
Friday is usually a no football day and then you know,
back at it on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So it's, uh, you.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Kind of get into that grind, if you will. It's
a pleasurable grind, but you get into that grind, and
you know, adjustments are made for Mondays and Thursday games
and things like that, but that's that's generally, you know,
the schedule. I'm working out every day to try to
stay in shape, keeping up with the physical demands.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Of the job. So it's a it's a busy schedule
for sure. During the season.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
The referees definitely are you know, much more on a
full time basis for the hours that we put in
for for our preparation for the games that we have.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You've been doing this twenty five years at the NFL level.
You've seen the game evolve so much over the years,
the popularity. Are you surprised at where it's at now?
I mean, you were ahead of the curve at NFL
Europe refereeing games, and now there's international games. We could
have an international games six seven, eight times a season,
maybe once a week moving forward, who knows how far
(05:46):
this game is going to expand. But are you surprised, Pearl,
to see this game evolve as it has the last
twenty five years since you've been in it?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Well, I think, you know, early on, I think I
was surprised at the popularity and just you know, you
know how popular it is is and you know how
big of a business it is, and how many entities
are attached to uh, you know, making a living off
of the NFL, so you know it it never ceases
to amaze me. But the NFL has you know, they
(06:14):
have an ability of of you know, growing the business.
So you know, I don't you know all the details
of exactly how they do that, but you know, they
they have a brand and and you know, a product
that is exciting and people people want to watch it,
people want to be a part of it, and and
I'm thankful for that. You know, certainly it has evolved
(06:35):
over the years and you know new uh new markets
have you know, have been developed and uh so.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's always exciting.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You know, we get a chance to go to those
international games, and you know, it's it's always exciting to
uh to see, you know, see folks from other parts
of the world enjoy an NFL experience. You know, I
got to do a game in London many years ago now,
but it was between Cincinnati and Washington. But the you know,
(07:05):
it was at Wimbley Stadium, which is very cool also,
but you know, fans showed up and they had everybody
wears gear, right, so everybody had a uniform on. But
all thirty two teams were represented. It wasn't anything just
for the two teams that were playing, right, it was
for the team that they support, and they support a
team because they have a cousin that lives somewhere in
(07:25):
Ohio so they're a Browns fan, or they have a
family member that lives in Miami so they're a Dolphins fan.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And uh, you know, it was.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Great to see that folks can enjoy the NFL experience
on an international level.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I'm curious before we get to your background and how
you got to the NFL and in your career and
your background with your parents' educators as well. I'm curious
about Mike Perreira and the role he has evolved in
into it an NFL referee studio analyst, and that position
that he's evolved and the technology now that we have
inefficiating a watch replays on a high depth for as
(08:03):
a current referee, do you do you see what Mike
has done in that role and how it's maybe changed
the game a little bit from a fans perspective watching it,
And does that make it tougher for somebody like you
out there in real time having to watch a game
and call it as you see it without the ability
of instant replayer HD or or breaking it down to
the microsecond.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I mean, we're all accountable for what we do.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So you know, if it's not Mike or you know,
one of his, one of his peers, it's going to
be somebody else. So you know, the benefit of having
somebody like him with the experience that he has is
that he has knowledge of what we're going through and
knowledge of you know, our perspective and things like that.
So you know, with him, we're going to get you know,
and the rest of them, you know, we we at
(08:46):
least stand a chance of getting a fair shake, so
versus somebody who doesn't know what we're going through. So
you know, he definitely has carved out a niche that's
you know, that has grown in popularity that all the
networks have those folks now, those analysts now, and you know,
it's just part of the business. And it wasn't wasn't them,
it would be somebody else, you know, Like I say,
(09:08):
we're all accountable every week for every call that we make,
every call and we don't make you know, every play
is scrutinized, so you know, it's just part of the
business for us.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, I want to get to your background, Carl, because
you get to the NFL and your referee, you're at
this level for twenty five years, but getting here, it's
a process, and you go back to your dad and
your parents were educators. Your dad was a coach and
then a referee and a commissioner of the LA City
the CIS Southern Section, and you got into a refereeing
(09:38):
very young at the local level. And talk a little
bit about that. How you got into referee Was it
because of your dad was at the love of sports
and continue to be around sports.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well, yeah, certainly we grew up in a sports family,
you know, My father was a coach. He coached at
Roosevelt High School back in the fifties. His uh, he
coached Mike Garrett, who went on to win the Heisman
Trophy at SC and play in the NFL for for
a number of years, you know, and then you know,
he took an administrative job with La City Unified and
(10:08):
could no longer coach, so he ended up officiating. So
I grew up in an officiating and sports family. People
that you know hung around our house were officials. You
know that I didn't really know all that much about
at the time, but you know, I started.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I went to UC Irvine and started officiating internal sports
there at UC Irvine, and I decided I liked it,
and I called him and asked him if he could,
you know, hook me up with somebody to start doing
some high school games. And he said, yeah, you know,
all those guys that are hanging around all the time,
those are the guys you need to call. So I
called one of those guys and he got me started
doing high school games.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And uh, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Did, Pop Warner. I did years and years of high
school ball, both as a line of scrimmage official and
a referee, and fortunately here in southern California, we have
a lot of junior college football, very competitive junior college football.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
You know, we had Chad Johnson.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
And Steve Smith on the same team at Santa Monica
High School or Santa Monica Junior College, So you know
we have very competitive junior college sports here.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And I worked a lot of.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Junior college game Division three games, Division two games also
with a with a Western Football conference back in those days.
And then you know I had an opportunity to get
in the pack the Pac Ten at the time, worked
five years there in a year in the Wack as well,
and then I got a call from Mike Perur and
(11:33):
asked me to work in NFL Europe.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So you know we had we had.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I guess it was eight teams if I remember right
in NFL Europe, you know, around different cities in Europe.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And I had.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Actually went over there for eight seasons several to hone
my skills as a side judge and then another group
to prepare myself for becoming a referee. But after my
first year in NFL Europe in nineteen ninety nine, I
got a call from Jerry Seaman and Jerry asked me
how the weather was, how much experience in NFL Europe was,
(12:05):
and then he said, oh, by the way, would you
would you like to join the staff of officials for
the National Football League? And I think I told him yes.
I don't remember saying that. It was a little overwhelming,
as you might imagine, but he said a lot of
nice things about me, and he said he's I'm the
type of person that he wants, you know, as part
of the program. And boy, you know, it changed my life.
(12:27):
So you know, validated all the people that had invested
in me over the years. And you know, certainly, you know,
unfortunately my father didn't make it to see that day,
but he knew I was on the path, and you know,
certainly his tutelage over the years is a big reason
why I got that opportunity. So, yeah, just two thousand
(12:51):
was my first season. Worked work seven seasons, eight seasons,
I guess as a side judge, and then I've been
a referee ever since.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
At what point, Carl, did you think, Okay, the NFL
is a possibility or you know, I'm college is great,
I'm doing it on weekends. I've got my family, I
got you know, my Monday through Friday job. At what
point did it turn into maybe being this is something
I can really pursue at a professional level the NFL.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Well, I mean, you know, you always, I guess have
that in the back of your head, but you know,
and we always say as officials, you know, worked every game,
you know, not knowing who might be watching you. Right,
So I worked a junior college game here in southern California,
and you know, I was a referee and I had
to make a call that somebody else should have made,
(13:39):
and I had to make that call.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I made that call.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And after the game, you know, a friend of my
dad's who happened to be at the game observing the game,
watching some one of the other officials, came down to
me and he said, hey, you did a great job.
Would you have you applied to the NFL. Well, I
had just gotten into the pack and I was supplementing
(14:04):
my Pack ten schedule with some junior college football and
I said, well, no, I really haven't thought about the NFL.
I just got in the pack and I'm trying to
survive and thrive in the pack. And he goes, well,
you just you need to put your name in just
to get part in part of the process, just to
start the process. He goes, it's going to take a
few years before they're going to show any interest in you.
(14:24):
But you know, based on what I see today and
when I'm going to write up in my report, you
need to at least submit an application. So I did,
and you know, just kept chopping wood and I had
an opportunity to come my way. So just really blessed that.
(14:47):
You know, certainly, my father's, my father's name, my father's
reputation open doors for me, no doubt about it. And
I'd like to think that, you know, I took advantage
of those those door openings and made the most of
my opportunities. And you know, I am here today because
of the people that invested in me over the years.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
We often talked to coaches administrators on this podcast about
some of their mentors, some of their coaches, you know,
that helped them mold them into the kind of coaches
they are and the culture they build within their programs.
But for you getting to where you're at, You've talked
about your dad a lot, and I know you meant
a lot to you in your professional career as well,
but making you into you know the kind of referee
(15:30):
you are. Do you think back to some of the
the when you're younger, the older officials that you've maybe
leaned on and for their experience.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
The list is so long.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I mean, you know, I always say that you're kind
of a mosaic of so many different people. I take
a little piece of somebody and a little piece of
another somebody and you know, I mean over for me
now forty six years officiating. I started when I was nineteen,
So you know, I mean, there's so many people that
have that have given. And that's the other thing about
officiating is that you know people willingly give you, you know,
(16:07):
what you can benefit from their experience. They give you
their knowledge, they give it to you. And you know,
even in the NFL, where you know, I guess you
could say we're competing with each other. I never feel
like I'm competing with my form, with my fellow referees.
We're we're you know, we're in it together. People give
all the time, they give you things that can help
(16:27):
you be more successful. So you know, there's a long
list of folks that have helped me. My first high
school referee, you know, Bob Campbell, took a took a
you know, a chance with me, put me on his crew.
And you know, Larry Numbers was my referee in the
NFL for eight years, so you know, you know, of
(16:48):
course my dad, Fred, a guy named Fred Gallagher helped
me in the pack. I mean, there's just a long list.
And then I got to get to the NFL and
you know Red Cash and Jerry Mark brought those guys,
Jim Tunny, those guys you know, are giving me stuff
that you know, they call me. They you know, I
don't have to introduce myself anymore when I shake their hands.
So you know, I mean in the list of people
(17:09):
who have you know, Bill leaving people, long list of
people who have contributed, have invested.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I always saying they've invested in me.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
They gave willingly gave to me to try and you know,
make me, help me reach my full potential. And you know,
I don't think I'm there yet, but you know, people
continue to invest and I you know, I'm I'm thankful.
I pray for those people and and thank my lucky
(17:39):
stars for those people before every single game because without them,
I would not be here.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
How important is it then for you then to kind
of pour back into the younger officials that are coming
up and getting started and are are looking to get
to where you're at.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well, when I got hired in the pack, you know,
you know, I mentioned Fred Gallagher, you know, he's one
of my dear friends and you know, father, brother figure,
you know. And I called him when I got into
the pack and he said, oh great, he goes good
for you, he goes, Now go find that your replacement,
you know, go help your replacement. And that's pretty much
(18:16):
the extent of the phone call with him was, you know.
And and I've done that over the years, you know,
I've I've taught rules classes, and I've gone to many
clinics to help, you know, young officials. And it's very
important for us to give back. I mean, certainly when
you get a platform like mine where a lot of
people know who you are. I've done clinics all over
(18:38):
the world, you know, to try and give back to
the officiating community and try to again help other officials
reach their full potential.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Last year, you spoke at Concordia University Yourby's Coaches Conference.
He talked about the relationship between head coaches and referees,
how how important is to have a relationship with coaches
as an official or is that something that you you
don't think it's important at all?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, I mean I think it's I think it's important
to have a relationship, you know, a business relationship certainly.
You know, certainly at different levels, you're gonna know coaches.
You know, you know some some of them you've grown
up with or you've been all through sports with, and
you're going to have a relationship with them. But in general,
you got to, I believe, have a good business relationship
with them.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You know, I tell the story.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I mean, I was in sales for you know, most
of forty years, right, and when you go when you
go to a game, you know, coaches are much like
my customers when I when I was a salesperson. You know,
they they're all different, they all have their own personalities.
I have to adjust my my style, my approach with
them based on their personality. They all want the best deal.
(19:54):
That's that's normal, right. They all want to, you know,
a fair deal. They all want to be treated like
they're the most most important customer. That's what I did
for a living, and that dynamic is not that different
than it is at a game. You know, each coach
wants to be get wants a fair a fair shake,
(20:14):
so to speak, and they want to be treated as
if they're the most important one. And that is not,
you know, unusual, and that's something I'm very capable of handling.
So you know, I try to build a report with
the coaches and you know, it's you know, uh, you know,
most often on a very professional level. I don't know
them in their personal lives at all, but you know,
(20:37):
we're we're in business together, and you you know, what
you do is extremely important. But you can't have a
competitive contest without me without officials and uh, you know
as my as as my buddy, you know, Barry Manno says,
you know, uh, sports without officials is just practice. So
(20:58):
you've got to have a fish. We're in it together,
and you know, we have to treat each other with
the respect so we can continue to have competitive sports
as we know it today.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
So yeah, I I you know, it's it's important.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
You know, one of the interesting dynamics tim is, you know,
I'm a battery salesman from southern California and I you know,
and a coach, a coach, you know, he's responsible. He
controls every aspect of his program. I don't care what
level it's at. They control every aspect of their program.
(21:35):
You know when they're going to practice, how long they're
going to practice, what they're going to practice, you know
when they're gonna eat what. You know they're going to
have study haul, if you know what they're gonna wear
on game day, you know what time they're leaving.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
They control every single aspect of their program.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And then you know, a battery salesman from southern California
comes in on game day, I shake their hand and
introduce myself, and with that handshake, that power comes to me.
Now I'm now in control of the environment. And you know,
they don't like it, and I totally understand that, and
(22:15):
I have to. I have to understand the responsibility of
that transfer of power and the fact that they don't
like it. And if I don't treat that with respect,
I'm not going to have a good day. So you know,
I mean one of the lessons for officials is understanding
the responsibility of that transfer of power. But you know,
(22:35):
I also understand why coaches don't like it. But you know,
to have a competitive, neutral, fair competition, that power has
to come to me otherwise, you know, it's it's it's
hard to uh have a game that's uh, you know,
that's completely fair on both sides. So you know, it's
(22:57):
an interesting dynamic and one that I have a pretty
good handle on now, certainly with my tenure. But but
with with younger officials, you know, one of the things
we have to, you know, try to make sure that
they understand is, you know, respecting that transfer of power
and understanding what that means for a coach who controls
(23:18):
every aspect of their program.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
With younger coaches, do you do you find it harder
to have to deal with them. I mean, the veteran
coaches that are in the league all, they all have
egos as well, the Andy Reid's of the world, of
Bill Belichick's of the world. But I'm sure there's a
respect between the two of you, or you and the coach.
But these younger coaches do you have to make sure
that they learned that respect early on?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
I mean I'm lucky at my tenure. You know, most
of them know I've been around, They've seen me. They
you know, and you know, it's hard for me to
keep track of every coach on staff you know who
might end up being head coaches. But you know, I'm
lucky and I have a you know, I guess I
have a reputation at this point, you know, a positive
repute about how I handle the business, so you know,
(24:03):
I don't really.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Have any issues with that, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And the younger coaches, you know, they frankly they need
us more because they need they need the help. They
don't have the experience, so they need the help and
making sure that you know that they you know, know
the rules and know know when to do certain things.
So that really isn't an issue. But you know, certainly
at the lower levels, you know, not the NFL level,
(24:28):
and you know, but at the lower levels, you know,
you know, sometimes coaches you know, are overly aggressive. You know,
they may not you know, have the experience and may
not have the knowledge of rules and things like that,
and some of them compensate that by, you know, by
being overly aggressive. So you know, certainly younger coaches you know,
(24:52):
can be more challenging. Certain at lower levels, I would say,
but you know, that's part of the business, and you know,
unfortun for the officiating community at those lower levels. We
have a lot of officials with very little experience, and
so you know that can make for a challenging environment
when you have you know, young, inexperienced coaches and inexperienced officials.
(25:15):
So yeah, it can be, it can be challenging.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You mentioned you're a Southern California guy. Your dad coached
at Roosevelt or to the City Section for two plus decades. Uh,
in the offices you refereed at the high school level
here in Southern California, the City Section unfortunately has kind
of dwindled down in athletics and in the glory days
(25:40):
of Banning versus Carson uh in high school football, Roosevelt
Garfield still a big one, but the CIF Southern Section
is now kind of taking the reins as far as
powerhouses and football. You have the modern days and the
Boscos and the private schools versus the public schools. But
the city Section, I know you've got a soft spot
for the City Section though, right, Carl.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Well, I went to a lot of games over the years.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
You know, one thing, I was just talking to my
sisters this weekend, and uh, you know, we grew up
in sports, we grew up working up in the office
with my dad when we were kids, we you know,
we all had jobs. There was a lot of uh
you know, summer job opportunities, you know, whether it's stuff
and envelopes or you know, running copies or whatever it
is that we could do to help out. You know,
we always worked with my dad in the summertime. So
(26:25):
and all of his staff, I mean, there are those
people were family to us, you know. I mean, so,
you know, the city section does have a soft spot
in my hearsh but heart. But you know a lot
of things have changed him with you know, demographics and
you know nils and you know, I don't know how recruiting,
I don't know how that's treated these days, but you
(26:47):
have recruiting, and you know, there's a lot of things
have changed. So it's not just uh La City that
might have some challenges with uh with sports. It's other
schools that are not, you know, those that seem to
excel every single year.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Do you miss refereeing at the high school level that
I miss?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I missed the high school level. This is my This
is my high school football field, by the way, This
is where I went to high school. This is where
I worked a ton of games. Now they've They've made
it a lot nicer than it was when I was
at school there. But this is my high school football field,
and you know, I still go to a few high
school games.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
You know, I live, you know, I still live in
the house. I live where my kids went to school.
So I'm active with the high school that they went to.
And I still go to quite a few high school games.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I do some. I'm still a member of my high
school unit.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
You know, I've I I'm a you know, due's paying
member of my high school football officiating unit, have been
for forty six years. And uh, I miss high school.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I was telling somebody the other day, I'm a romantic
and that the Friday night lights, the smell of the
dew on the grass, and you know, there's nothing like
a great high school football game. So I missed that
a lot. I had a lot of fun, met a
lot of people. Again, a lot of early investors in
my career came from my high school experience. I do
(28:12):
miss it a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
What is a message you give young officials, young officials
that are coaching or reference at the high school level,
even you know, lower levels, and trying to get to
where you're at. Is there something you like to tell
them about, you know, what they can keep doing what
they should be doing to aspire to get to the NFL.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Well, I mean, you know, I mean the NFL is
it's a very steep peak. You know, there's one hundred
and twenty one of us in the NFL. You know,
I always say more people flew in the Space Shuttle,
So you know, it's a very steep peak.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And you know, you got to enjoy what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Where you're at and work hard to get better every
single play, every single week. And if you put the
time in the effort and you work hard at it,
people will notice you and people will help you.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Get to the next level.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And you know, but you also have to have some
satisfaction of working at the level you're at. There's some fantastic,
very good, very highly accomplished high school officials that didn't
want to do anything else besides high school, and that
is perfectly fine. We need a lot of very good
(29:29):
high school officials. And if that's what you want to do,
that's your calling. God bless you. We need you to
do that. And you're doing important work and not everybody's
going to make it in the NFL. There's a lot
of sacrifices that have to be made to get to
the NFL, with family time and work time and other distractions.
(29:52):
So it's not for everybody, and certainly not all of
them are going to make it work hard. Where you're at,
Excel where you're at, Try to rise to the top
of you know, the level that you're at, and believe me,
you will move to the next level if that's what
you're interested in doing. So the main thing is that
(30:14):
you're doing important work. And I'm thankful for the work
that you're doing because we need you.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
No doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Carl. Final thing, and I was thinking about this, but
when I was kind of gathering my thoughts and talking
to you, and I bounced it off my wife and
she said, this would be fantastic television. We love the
HBO hard knocks TV shows. You know, reality shows in
general are popular. How about a behind the scenes hard
knocks for an NFL referee? Following a referee around week
(30:44):
to week the preseason training camps, what you guys do
in preparation and going around at different camps and talking
to the coaches, which fans don't know. You guys go
around and do and and and you know, talk about
the new rules and brush up on your your stuff
as well during the spring in training camp. Would that
be something that would go over with referees or is
that kind of a private world you guys don't want,
(31:07):
you know, peeled back for football fans to see your
world week to week during the football season.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Well, certainly they've done that over the years. They've done
you know, one offs. They haven't done it for a
whole season, that's for sure. I'm not sure you know
how interesting that would be because there is a lot
of repetition in what we do. But they have done
those behind the scenes over the years, and you know
kind of you know, a visual of what I explained earlier,
what that.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Week is like.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, but you know, I'm not sure that how how
good that would be, you know, going every single week,
just because of the repetitive nature of it. But you know, certainly,
you know it is you know, it is interesting. I
think you know what we do with you know, to
prepare ourselves, certainly on a football level. You know, you
(31:54):
got to remember football, I have one game a week,
and so I have six days to prepare and you know,
you know, it's a lot different for a basketball official
who you know, might have three or four games a week,
or a baseball umpire who might have three or four
games a week. You know, on ice hockey official who
might have a couple of games a week. So you know,
(32:14):
their week is certainly a lot different than my week.
And they're not spending as much time, you know, debriefing
the game that they just work. They may be looking
at a few plays where I am combing through that game,
you know, to make sure we don't miss anything. And
and I don't know how much preparation they're able to
do for the game, you know, the teams that they
(32:35):
have coming up. Certainly in baseball you're working a series,
so you don't have to do a lot of you know,
preparation work.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Every single day.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But you know, there there's their week is going to
be a lot different than mine. But and maybe a
little more exciting because of the variability. But but yeah,
I mean, you know, there is I'm sure there is
some interest in you know, there has been some work
done on that, but you know, maybe it's time to
(33:03):
tee that up again.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, Carl, I appreciate the time. I really appreciate the
insight to get your background and your story. I know
that the listeners and viewers loved it. Football fans loved
to hear your knowledge as well. So thankful for the
time to sit down and talk with you today.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it, my pleasure. Thanks
for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Tim Well, there he goes, Carl Cheffer's longtime official in
the NFL since two thousand, a head referee since two
thousand and eight. So great to go behind the scenes
to the lead up of what an NFL referee does
during the week in preparation for a game on Sunday,
to get his thoughts on the game. Just going global,
(33:43):
having been a referee in NFL Euro Up back of
the day and now calling games overseas at Wimbley Stadium
in London and abroad. So great to catch up with Carl.
So great to hear his background, his parents both educators,
and being around the game of football at a young
age here in southern California at the high school level,
the JC level packed ten games and then making his
(34:05):
way finally to the NFL in two thousand. Hope you
enjoyed that. Not often you get to talk to a
NFL referee. So thankful for Carl Cheffers taking the time
to join us here on the Masters in Coaching podcast.
If you want to find out more about Concordia University
Irvines Masters and Coaching Athletics Administration program, find out more
at CUI dot edu slash Coaching multiple start times throughout
(34:28):
the year. He was a speaker at the Coaches Conference
last June, which is coming up fast the twenty twenty
five Coaches Conference again find out more about the program
the Coaches Conference coming up in a few months at
CUI dot edu slash Coaching. Thanks to Carl, Thanks to
you for listening and being a part of episode seventy
eight of the Masters in Coaching podcasts Now in the
(34:49):
books until next time, Tim Kate saying so long everybody,
From high school to college to the pros. He's a
football official in the NFL since two thousand, a head
referee since two thousand and eight. He's refereed three Super
Bowls with some of the greatest names, coaches, players that
have ever played football. He is Carl Cheffers and he
(00:20):
joins us now on episode seventy eight of the Masters
in Coaching podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Well, welcome into episode seventy eight of the Masters in
Coaching podcast here on iHeartRadio. Thank you for listening, Thank
you for downloading and watching whatever platform you are using.
We certainly appreciate it. We've had a lot of guests
on the podcast, a lot of coaches, administrators, Olympians, gold medalists,
and finally we have an NFL referee. I am fired up.
(00:51):
Longtime official, going back to his days here in southern
California at the high school level, then at the college
level in the Pac Ten the WAX. Since two thousand,
he has been an official in the NFL, first as
a side judge and since two thousand and eight as
a head referee. He has been the head referee of
three Super Bowls and most recently Super Bowl fifty seven
in Arizona when the Chiefs beat the Eagles. Carl Cheffers
(01:14):
as our guest. Carl, thank you for being with us
here on the podcast. How you doing, I'm doing great? Wow,
what a great opportunity to join you today. I really
appreciate the opportunity and look forward to to our discussion.
Thank you for the great intro there. Absolutely well deserved.
The NFL is in its off season. But for referees,
(01:35):
it's not a full time job for you guys. You
guys have stuff you guys do outside of flying around
on Sundays and Mondays and refereeing NFL games. What's your
off season like as an NFL referee, Carl?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, certainly most of us, you know, have other jobs,
you know, because the NFL is seasonal, so most of
the officials have other jobs. I was a car battery
salesman for many years. If you can imagine that. The
company I work for made you know, batteries for all
the major retailers, and I worked in that business for
over forty years. I had the pleasure of retiring from
(02:10):
that a couple of years ago. But most of us
have full time jobs, and in the off season, you know,
we do get a little breakaway. But sitting right here
to my left is my off season tests. So we're
trying to stay fresh. And there's one hundred questions here
that I'm going through and that generates interaction amongst us.
So we'll we try to keep up on the latest
(02:33):
and stay fresh in the off season.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
NFL officials, what does a typical week look for you
guys during a regular season? A lot of fans are curious.
I mean, we know what the players and the teams
go through leading up to a season, leading up to
a game week, what does that look like for an
NFL referee?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So you know, usually I'm at the airport by six
o'clock on Saturday morning heading to my game. And you know,
if it's a normal one o'clock, you know, Sunday game,
then I'm leaving early Saturday morning to go whatever my
destination is. And I'll get there, you know, sometime in
the afternoon usually, and I run a two and a
half hour pregame with the rest of the crew. There's
(03:13):
nine of us on the crew, seven on the field,
two in the replay booth, and so I'll run a
meeting and Saturday afternoon for two and a half hours,
We'll go to dinner, go to bed early, and then
we get up the next morning. We're at the game
site three hours ahead of time, and then of course
the game lasts for another three hours and then we
are in a hurry to get back to the airport
(03:34):
to try to get back to work on Monday. So
you know, that's kind of how the weekend goes. And
then certainly, you know, on we have work to do,
certainly you know, football work to do during the week
and balancing work and family and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But you know, Monday, we're reviewing.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
The game, trying to you know, critique it for good
things and things we need to do better. You know,
the NFL has an extensive grading process that they go
through on these games, and we only have one game
a week, so they have six days to uh to
you know, grade it. So you know, Tuesday usually the
initial grades come out and we're kind of working through those.
(04:15):
Wednesday the grades are final, and uh so we're kind
of you know working through that. In the meantime, we're
preparing for the coming week. So you know, Tuesday and Wednesday,
I'm scouting the two teams that we're going to be
facing this next week. You know, Thursday is when I
put the pregame together, so my team is uh, you know,
(04:36):
providing me with with plays from our game and the
two game two teams that are coming up. And then
Friday is usually a no football day and then you know,
back at it on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So it's, uh, you.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Kind of get into that grind, if you will. It's
a pleasurable grind, but you get into that grind, and
you know, adjustments are made for Mondays and Thursday games
and things like that, but that's that's generally, you know,
the schedule. I'm working out every day to try to
stay in shape, keeping up with the physical demands.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Of the job. So it's a it's a busy schedule
for sure. During the season.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
The referees definitely are you know, much more on a
full time basis for the hours that we put in
for for our preparation for the games that we have.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You've been doing this twenty five years at the NFL level.
You've seen the game evolve so much over the years,
the popularity. Are you surprised at where it's at now?
I mean, you were ahead of the curve at NFL
Europe refereeing games, and now there's international games. We could
have an international games six seven, eight times a season,
maybe once a week moving forward, who knows how far
(05:46):
this game is going to expand. But are you surprised, Pearl,
to see this game evolve as it has the last
twenty five years since you've been in it?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Well, I think, you know, early on, I think I
was surprised at the popularity and just you know, you
know how popular it is is and you know how
big of a business it is, and how many entities
are attached to uh, you know, making a living off
of the NFL, so you know it it never ceases
to amaze me. But the NFL has you know, they
(06:14):
have an ability of of you know, growing the business.
So you know, I don't you know all the details
of exactly how they do that, but you know, they
they have a brand and and you know, a product
that is exciting and people people want to watch it,
people want to be a part of it, and and
I'm thankful for that. You know, certainly it has evolved
(06:35):
over the years and you know new uh new markets
have you know, have been developed and uh so.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's always exciting.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
You know, we get a chance to go to those
international games, and you know, it's it's always exciting to
uh to see, you know, see folks from other parts
of the world enjoy an NFL experience. You know, I
got to do a game in London many years ago now,
but it was between Cincinnati and Washington. But the you know,
(07:05):
it was at Wimbley Stadium, which is very cool also,
but you know, fans showed up and they had everybody
wears gear, right, so everybody had a uniform on. But
all thirty two teams were represented. It wasn't anything just
for the two teams that were playing, right, it was
for the team that they support, and they support a
team because they have a cousin that lives somewhere in
(07:25):
Ohio so they're a Browns fan, or they have a
family member that lives in Miami so they're a Dolphins fan.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And uh, you know, it was.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Great to see that folks can enjoy the NFL experience
on an international level.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I'm curious before we get to your background and how
you got to the NFL and in your career and
your background with your parents' educators as well. I'm curious
about Mike Perreira and the role he has evolved in
into it an NFL referee studio analyst, and that position
that he's evolved and the technology now that we have
inefficiating a watch replays on a high depth for as
(08:03):
a current referee, do you do you see what Mike
has done in that role and how it's maybe changed
the game a little bit from a fans perspective watching it,
And does that make it tougher for somebody like you
out there in real time having to watch a game
and call it as you see it without the ability
of instant replayer HD or or breaking it down to
the microsecond.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I mean, we're all accountable for what we do.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So you know, if it's not Mike or you know,
one of his, one of his peers, it's going to
be somebody else. So you know, the benefit of having
somebody like him with the experience that he has is
that he has knowledge of what we're going through and
knowledge of you know, our perspective and things like that.
So you know, with him, we're going to get you know,
and the rest of them, you know, we we at
(08:46):
least stand a chance of getting a fair shake, so
versus somebody who doesn't know what we're going through. So
you know, he definitely has carved out a niche that's
you know, that has grown in popularity that all the
networks have those folks now, those analysts now, and you know,
it's just part of the business. And it wasn't wasn't them,
it would be somebody else, you know, Like I say,
(09:08):
we're all accountable every week for every call that we make,
every call and we don't make you know, every play
is scrutinized, so you know, it's just part of the
business for us.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, I want to get to your background, Carl, because
you get to the NFL and your referee, you're at
this level for twenty five years, but getting here, it's
a process, and you go back to your dad and
your parents were educators. Your dad was a coach and
then a referee and a commissioner of the LA City
the CIS Southern Section, and you got into a refereeing
(09:38):
very young at the local level. And talk a little
bit about that. How you got into referee Was it
because of your dad was at the love of sports
and continue to be around sports.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Well, yeah, certainly we grew up in a sports family,
you know, My father was a coach. He coached at
Roosevelt High School back in the fifties. His uh, he
coached Mike Garrett, who went on to win the Heisman
Trophy at SC and play in the NFL for for
a number of years, you know, and then you know,
he took an administrative job with La City Unified and
(10:08):
could no longer coach, so he ended up officiating. So
I grew up in an officiating and sports family. People
that you know hung around our house were officials. You
know that I didn't really know all that much about
at the time, but you know, I started.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I went to UC Irvine and started officiating internal sports
there at UC Irvine, and I decided I liked it,
and I called him and asked him if he could,
you know, hook me up with somebody to start doing
some high school games. And he said, yeah, you know,
all those guys that are hanging around all the time,
those are the guys you need to call. So I
called one of those guys and he got me started
doing high school games.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And uh, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Did, Pop Warner. I did years and years of high
school ball, both as a line of scrimmage official and
a referee, and fortunately here in southern California, we have
a lot of junior college football, very competitive junior college football.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
You know, we had Chad Johnson.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
And Steve Smith on the same team at Santa Monica
High School or Santa Monica Junior College, So you know
we have very competitive junior college sports here.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And I worked a lot of.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Junior college game Division three games, Division two games also
with a with a Western Football conference back in those days.
And then you know I had an opportunity to get
in the pack the Pac Ten at the time, worked
five years there in a year in the Wack as well,
and then I got a call from Mike Perur and
(11:33):
asked me to work in NFL Europe.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So you know we had we had.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I guess it was eight teams if I remember right
in NFL Europe, you know, around different cities in Europe.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And I had.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Actually went over there for eight seasons several to hone
my skills as a side judge and then another group
to prepare myself for becoming a referee. But after my
first year in NFL Europe in nineteen ninety nine, I
got a call from Jerry Seaman and Jerry asked me
how the weather was, how much experience in NFL Europe was,
(12:05):
and then he said, oh, by the way, would you
would you like to join the staff of officials for
the National Football League? And I think I told him yes.
I don't remember saying that. It was a little overwhelming,
as you might imagine, but he said a lot of
nice things about me, and he said he's I'm the
type of person that he wants, you know, as part
of the program. And boy, you know, it changed my life.
(12:27):
So you know, validated all the people that had invested
in me over the years. And you know, certainly, you know,
unfortunately my father didn't make it to see that day,
but he knew I was on the path, and you know,
certainly his tutelage over the years is a big reason
why I got that opportunity. So, yeah, just two thousand
(12:51):
was my first season. Worked work seven seasons, eight seasons,
I guess as a side judge, and then I've been
a referee ever since.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
At what point, Carl, did you think, Okay, the NFL
is a possibility or you know, I'm college is great,
I'm doing it on weekends. I've got my family, I
got you know, my Monday through Friday job. At what
point did it turn into maybe being this is something
I can really pursue at a professional level the NFL.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Well, I mean, you know, you always, I guess have
that in the back of your head, but you know,
and we always say as officials, you know, worked every game,
you know, not knowing who might be watching you. Right,
So I worked a junior college game here in southern California,
and you know, I was a referee and I had
to make a call that somebody else should have made,
(13:39):
and I had to make that call.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I made that call.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And after the game, you know, a friend of my
dad's who happened to be at the game observing the game,
watching some one of the other officials, came down to
me and he said, hey, you did a great job.
Would you have you applied to the NFL. Well, I
had just gotten into the pack and I was supplementing
(14:04):
my Pack ten schedule with some junior college football and
I said, well, no, I really haven't thought about the NFL.
I just got in the pack and I'm trying to
survive and thrive in the pack. And he goes, well,
you just you need to put your name in just
to get part in part of the process, just to
start the process. He goes, it's going to take a
few years before they're going to show any interest in you.
(14:24):
But you know, based on what I see today and
when I'm going to write up in my report, you
need to at least submit an application. So I did,
and you know, just kept chopping wood and I had
an opportunity to come my way. So just really blessed that.
(14:47):
You know, certainly, my father's, my father's name, my father's
reputation open doors for me, no doubt about it. And
I'd like to think that, you know, I took advantage
of those those door openings and made the most of
my opportunities. And you know, I am here today because
of the people that invested in me over the years.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
We often talked to coaches administrators on this podcast about
some of their mentors, some of their coaches, you know,
that helped them mold them into the kind of coaches
they are and the culture they build within their programs.
But for you getting to where you're at, You've talked
about your dad a lot, and I know you meant
a lot to you in your professional career as well,
but making you into you know the kind of referee
(15:30):
you are. Do you think back to some of the
the when you're younger, the older officials that you've maybe
leaned on and for their experience.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
The list is so long.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I mean, you know, I always say that you're kind
of a mosaic of so many different people. I take
a little piece of somebody and a little piece of
another somebody and you know, I mean over for me
now forty six years officiating. I started when I was nineteen,
So you know, I mean, there's so many people that
have that have given. And that's the other thing about
officiating is that you know people willingly give you, you know,
(16:07):
what you can benefit from their experience. They give you
their knowledge, they give it to you. And you know,
even in the NFL, where you know, I guess you
could say we're competing with each other. I never feel
like I'm competing with my form, with my fellow referees.
We're we're you know, we're in it together. People give
all the time, they give you things that can help
(16:27):
you be more successful. So you know, there's a long
list of folks that have helped me. My first high
school referee, you know, Bob Campbell, took a took a
you know, a chance with me, put me on his crew.
And you know, Larry Numbers was my referee in the
NFL for eight years, so you know, you know, of
(16:48):
course my dad, Fred, a guy named Fred Gallagher helped
me in the pack. I mean, there's just a long list.
And then I got to get to the NFL and
you know Red Cash and Jerry Mark brought those guys,
Jim Tunny, those guys you know, are giving me stuff
that you know, they call me. They you know, I
don't have to introduce myself anymore when I shake their hands.
So you know, I mean in the list of people
(17:09):
who have you know, Bill leaving people, long list of
people who have contributed, have invested.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I always saying they've invested in me.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
They gave willingly gave to me to try and you know,
make me, help me reach my full potential. And you know,
I don't think I'm there yet, but you know, people
continue to invest and I you know, I'm I'm thankful.
I pray for those people and and thank my lucky
(17:39):
stars for those people before every single game because without them,
I would not be here.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
How important is it then for you then to kind
of pour back into the younger officials that are coming
up and getting started and are are looking to get
to where you're at.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Well, when I got hired in the pack, you know,
you know, I mentioned Fred Gallagher, you know, he's one
of my dear friends and you know, father, brother figure,
you know. And I called him when I got into
the pack and he said, oh great, he goes good
for you, he goes, Now go find that your replacement,
you know, go help your replacement. And that's pretty much
(18:16):
the extent of the phone call with him was, you know.
And and I've done that over the years, you know,
I've I've taught rules classes, and I've gone to many
clinics to help, you know, young officials. And it's very
important for us to give back. I mean, certainly when
you get a platform like mine where a lot of
people know who you are. I've done clinics all over
(18:38):
the world, you know, to try and give back to
the officiating community and try to again help other officials
reach their full potential.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Last year, you spoke at Concordia University Yourby's Coaches Conference.
He talked about the relationship between head coaches and referees,
how how important is to have a relationship with coaches
as an official or is that something that you you
don't think it's important at all?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, I mean I think it's I think it's important
to have a relationship, you know, a business relationship certainly.
You know, certainly at different levels, you're gonna know coaches.
You know, you know some some of them you've grown
up with or you've been all through sports with, and
you're going to have a relationship with them. But in general,
you got to, I believe, have a good business relationship
with them.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You know, I tell the story.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I mean, I was in sales for you know, most
of forty years, right, and when you go when you
go to a game, you know, coaches are much like
my customers when I when I was a salesperson. You know,
they they're all different, they all have their own personalities.
I have to adjust my my style, my approach with
them based on their personality. They all want the best deal.
(19:54):
That's that's normal, right. They all want to, you know,
a fair deal. They all want to be treated like
they're the most most important customer. That's what I did
for a living, and that dynamic is not that different
than it is at a game. You know, each coach
wants to be get wants a fair a fair shake,
(20:14):
so to speak, and they want to be treated as
if they're the most important one. And that is not,
you know, unusual, and that's something I'm very capable of handling.
So you know, I try to build a report with
the coaches and you know, it's you know, uh, you know,
most often on a very professional level. I don't know
them in their personal lives at all, but you know,
(20:37):
we're we're in business together, and you you know, what
you do is extremely important. But you can't have a
competitive contest without me without officials and uh, you know
as my as as my buddy, you know, Barry Manno says,
you know, uh, sports without officials is just practice. So
(20:58):
you've got to have a fish. We're in it together,
and you know, we have to treat each other with
the respect so we can continue to have competitive sports
as we know it today.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
So yeah, I I you know, it's it's important.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
You know, one of the interesting dynamics tim is, you know,
I'm a battery salesman from southern California and I you know,
and a coach, a coach, you know, he's responsible. He
controls every aspect of his program. I don't care what
level it's at. They control every aspect of their program.
(21:35):
You know when they're going to practice, how long they're
going to practice, what they're going to practice, you know
when they're gonna eat what. You know they're going to
have study haul, if you know what they're gonna wear
on game day, you know what time they're leaving.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
They control every single aspect of their program.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And then you know, a battery salesman from southern California
comes in on game day, I shake their hand and
introduce myself, and with that handshake, that power comes to me.
Now I'm now in control of the environment. And you know,
they don't like it, and I totally understand that, and
(22:15):
I have to. I have to understand the responsibility of
that transfer of power and the fact that they don't
like it. And if I don't treat that with respect,
I'm not going to have a good day. So you know,
I mean one of the lessons for officials is understanding
the responsibility of that transfer of power. But you know,
(22:35):
I also understand why coaches don't like it. But you know,
to have a competitive, neutral, fair competition, that power has
to come to me otherwise, you know, it's it's it's
hard to uh have a game that's uh, you know,
that's completely fair on both sides. So you know, it's
(22:57):
an interesting dynamic and one that I have a pretty
good handle on now, certainly with my tenure. But but
with with younger officials, you know, one of the things
we have to, you know, try to make sure that
they understand is, you know, respecting that transfer of power
and understanding what that means for a coach who controls
(23:18):
every aspect of their program.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
With younger coaches, do you do you find it harder
to have to deal with them. I mean, the veteran
coaches that are in the league all, they all have
egos as well, the Andy Reid's of the world, of
Bill Belichick's of the world. But I'm sure there's a
respect between the two of you, or you and the coach.
But these younger coaches do you have to make sure
that they learned that respect early on?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
I mean I'm lucky at my tenure. You know, most
of them know I've been around, They've seen me. They
you know, and you know, it's hard for me to
keep track of every coach on staff you know who
might end up being head coaches. But you know, I'm
lucky and I have a you know, I guess I
have a reputation at this point, you know, a positive
repute about how I handle the business, so you know,
(24:03):
I don't really.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Have any issues with that, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And the younger coaches, you know, they frankly they need
us more because they need they need the help. They
don't have the experience, so they need the help and
making sure that you know that they you know, know
the rules and know know when to do certain things.
So that really isn't an issue. But you know, certainly
at the lower levels, you know, not the NFL level,
(24:28):
and you know, but at the lower levels, you know,
you know, sometimes coaches you know, are overly aggressive. You know,
they may not you know, have the experience and may
not have the knowledge of rules and things like that,
and some of them compensate that by, you know, by
being overly aggressive. So you know, certainly younger coaches you know,
(24:52):
can be more challenging. Certain at lower levels, I would say,
but you know, that's part of the business, and you know,
unfortun for the officiating community at those lower levels. We
have a lot of officials with very little experience, and
so you know that can make for a challenging environment
when you have you know, young, inexperienced coaches and inexperienced officials.
(25:15):
So yeah, it can be, it can be challenging.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You mentioned you're a Southern California guy. Your dad coached
at Roosevelt or to the City Section for two plus decades. Uh,
in the offices you refereed at the high school level
here in Southern California, the City Section unfortunately has kind
of dwindled down in athletics and in the glory days
(25:40):
of Banning versus Carson uh in high school football, Roosevelt
Garfield still a big one, but the CIF Southern Section
is now kind of taking the reins as far as
powerhouses and football. You have the modern days and the
Boscos and the private schools versus the public schools. But
the city Section, I know you've got a soft spot
for the City Section though, right, Carl.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Well, I went to a lot of games over the years.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
You know, one thing, I was just talking to my
sisters this weekend, and uh, you know, we grew up
in sports, we grew up working up in the office
with my dad when we were kids, we you know,
we all had jobs. There was a lot of uh
you know, summer job opportunities, you know, whether it's stuff
and envelopes or you know, running copies or whatever it
is that we could do to help out. You know,
we always worked with my dad in the summertime. So
(26:25):
and all of his staff, I mean, there are those
people were family to us, you know. I mean, so,
you know, the city section does have a soft spot
in my hearsh but heart. But you know a lot
of things have changed him with you know, demographics and
you know nils and you know, I don't know how recruiting,
I don't know how that's treated these days, but you
(26:47):
have recruiting, and you know, there's a lot of things
have changed. So it's not just uh La City that
might have some challenges with uh with sports. It's other
schools that are not, you know, those that seem to
excel every single year.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Do you miss refereeing at the high school level that
I miss?
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I missed the high school level. This is my This
is my high school football field, by the way, This
is where I went to high school. This is where
I worked a ton of games. Now they've They've made
it a lot nicer than it was when I was
at school there. But this is my high school football field,
and you know, I still go to a few high
school games.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
You know, I live, you know, I still live in
the house. I live where my kids went to school.
So I'm active with the high school that they went to.
And I still go to quite a few high school games.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I do some. I'm still a member of my high
school unit.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
You know, I've I I'm a you know, due's paying
member of my high school football officiating unit, have been
for forty six years. And uh, I miss high school.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I was telling somebody the other day, I'm a romantic
and that the Friday night lights, the smell of the
dew on the grass, and you know, there's nothing like
a great high school football game. So I missed that
a lot. I had a lot of fun, met a
lot of people. Again, a lot of early investors in
my career came from my high school experience. I do
(28:12):
miss it a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
What is a message you give young officials, young officials
that are coaching or reference at the high school level,
even you know, lower levels, and trying to get to
where you're at. Is there something you like to tell
them about, you know, what they can keep doing what
they should be doing to aspire to get to the NFL.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Well, I mean, you know, I mean the NFL is
it's a very steep peak. You know, there's one hundred
and twenty one of us in the NFL. You know,
I always say more people flew in the Space Shuttle,
So you know, it's a very steep peak.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And you know, you got to enjoy what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Where you're at and work hard to get better every
single play, every single week. And if you put the
time in the effort and you work hard at it,
people will notice you and people will help you.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Get to the next level.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
And you know, but you also have to have some
satisfaction of working at the level you're at. There's some fantastic,
very good, very highly accomplished high school officials that didn't
want to do anything else besides high school, and that
is perfectly fine. We need a lot of very good
(29:29):
high school officials. And if that's what you want to do,
that's your calling. God bless you. We need you to
do that. And you're doing important work and not everybody's
going to make it in the NFL. There's a lot
of sacrifices that have to be made to get to
the NFL, with family time and work time and other distractions.
(29:52):
So it's not for everybody, and certainly not all of
them are going to make it work hard. Where you're at,
Excel where you're at, Try to rise to the top
of you know, the level that you're at, and believe me,
you will move to the next level if that's what
you're interested in doing. So the main thing is that
(30:14):
you're doing important work. And I'm thankful for the work
that you're doing because we need you.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
No doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Carl. Final thing, and I was thinking about this, but
when I was kind of gathering my thoughts and talking
to you, and I bounced it off my wife and
she said, this would be fantastic television. We love the
HBO hard knocks TV shows. You know, reality shows in
general are popular. How about a behind the scenes hard
knocks for an NFL referee? Following a referee around week
(30:44):
to week the preseason training camps, what you guys do
in preparation and going around at different camps and talking
to the coaches, which fans don't know. You guys go
around and do and and and you know, talk about
the new rules and brush up on your your stuff
as well during the spring in training camp. Would that
be something that would go over with referees or is
that kind of a private world you guys don't want,
(31:07):
you know, peeled back for football fans to see your
world week to week during the football season.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Well, certainly they've done that over the years. They've done
you know, one offs. They haven't done it for a
whole season, that's for sure. I'm not sure you know
how interesting that would be because there is a lot
of repetition in what we do. But they have done
those behind the scenes over the years, and you know
kind of you know, a visual of what I explained earlier,
what that.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Week is like.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, but you know, I'm not sure that how how
good that would be, you know, going every single week,
just because of the repetitive nature of it. But you know, certainly,
you know it is you know, it is interesting. I
think you know what we do with you know, to
prepare ourselves, certainly on a football level. You know, you
(31:54):
got to remember football, I have one game a week,
and so I have six days to prepare and you know,
you know, it's a lot different for a basketball official
who you know, might have three or four games a week,
or a baseball umpire who might have three or four
games a week. You know, on ice hockey official who
might have a couple of games a week. So you know,
(32:14):
their week is certainly a lot different than my week.
And they're not spending as much time, you know, debriefing
the game that they just work. They may be looking
at a few plays where I am combing through that game,
you know, to make sure we don't miss anything. And
and I don't know how much preparation they're able to
do for the game, you know, the teams that they
(32:35):
have coming up. Certainly in baseball you're working a series,
so you don't have to do a lot of you know,
preparation work.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Every single day.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But you know, there there's their week is going to
be a lot different than mine. But and maybe a
little more exciting because of the variability. But but yeah,
I mean, you know, there is I'm sure there is
some interest in you know, there has been some work
done on that, but you know, maybe it's time to
(33:03):
tee that up again.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, Carl, I appreciate the time. I really appreciate the
insight to get your background and your story. I know
that the listeners and viewers loved it. Football fans loved
to hear your knowledge as well. So thankful for the
time to sit down and talk with you today.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it, my pleasure. Thanks
for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Tim Well, there he goes, Carl Cheffer's longtime official in
the NFL since two thousand, a head referee since two
thousand and eight. So great to go behind the scenes
to the lead up of what an NFL referee does
during the week in preparation for a game on Sunday,
to get his thoughts on the game. Just going global,
(33:43):
having been a referee in NFL Euro Up back of
the day and now calling games overseas at Wimbley Stadium
in London and abroad. So great to catch up with Carl.
So great to hear his background, his parents both educators,
and being around the game of football at a young
age here in southern California at the high school level,
the JC level packed ten games and then making his
(34:05):
way finally to the NFL in two thousand. Hope you
enjoyed that. Not often you get to talk to a
NFL referee. So thankful for Carl Cheffers taking the time
to join us here on the Masters in Coaching podcast.
If you want to find out more about Concordia University
Irvines Masters and Coaching Athletics Administration program, find out more
at CUI dot edu slash Coaching multiple start times throughout
(34:28):
the year. He was a speaker at the Coaches Conference
last June, which is coming up fast the twenty twenty
five Coaches Conference again find out more about the program
the Coaches Conference coming up in a few months at
CUI dot edu slash Coaching. Thanks to Carl, Thanks to
you for listening and being a part of episode seventy
eight of the Masters in Coaching podcasts Now in the
(34:49):
books until next time, Tim Kate saying so long everybody,
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.