Masters in Coaching Podcast- Episode XLI

Tim Cates talks with Concordia University Irvine men's basketball coach Ken Ammann about his program and the success he's had at the NAIA and NCAA D2 levels.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
He was a standout basketball player atStanford assisting coach, and now two decades
as the head basketball coach at ConcordiaUniversity, Irvine, with a pair of
national championships under his belt. Heis Ken Ammon and he joins us now
on episode forty one of the Mastersin Coaching podcast Let's Go. Well,

(00:26):
welcome into episode forty one Hard toBelieve already forty one episodes of the Masters
in Coaching Podcast here on iHeart RadioYouTube, wherever you may be listening or
watching. We certainly appreciate that,and we are certainly excited about this week's
guest. Twenty one years as thehead coach at Concordia University, Irvine,
two national championships. He did soin his second year at the Helm back

(00:48):
in two thousand and three, didto back in two thousand and twelve as
well. He helped guide the programfrom n AIA to now Division two.
He is Ken Amity and he joinsus now coach. How are you doing?
Thanks for coming on the podcast.I'm a lot more excited after hearing
you talked and I was coming on. That's great. I loved your interview.
I appreciate it. Thanks thanks fordoing this. First off, how
did this season go for you guys? This year in twenty one twenty two,

(01:11):
it was it was a you know, it was one of our worst
years, but it was a hugeimprovement from the year before. We went.
We had such strong success for somany years, you know, for
two decades and then and yeah,hard to believe I've been here that long,
you know, you throughout the twentyone year number, it still seems
like, you know, it seemslike it seems like I've been here a

(01:32):
long time, but it also feelslike just yesterday, you know, coming
in here in my first year.It's been you know, such a great
ride. But yeah, we kindof went into COVID with you know,
a huge change in uh, welost a lot of guys the year before
through graduation and things like that,and then we lost our staff too,
so we had a lot of turnoverthere and so and we couldn't really go

(01:55):
out and recruit and so that twoyears ago it was really really our most
challenging time in a lot of ways, not just because of COVID, but
you know, and I don't mindthat, you know, we've kind of
always operated under you know, themarine type thing you adapt and improvised,
so I don't mind, you know, the inflexibility of it. Everyone thought
that was what was affecting that.That wasn't at all. We just went

(02:16):
against you know, only the SouthernCalifornia teams. We had stacked rosters that
year going in and we kind ofhad to go recruit you know, blind
on just tape only. We couldnever see any in person, and in
person steps so valuable for us becausewe rely so much on the relationship side
and trust on things. So wewent in with not as talented a group

(02:37):
that year, and you know,we had we had a normal schedule.
We want a lot more more games, but you know, we were outmatched
against the teams that we know weused to be ahead of, and so
they got us pretty good that year. But last year we did turn the
momentum and you know, you know, with you know, all guys out
throughout the year, with you know, COVID and things like that, we

(03:00):
still managed to you know, reallyturned around and hitting the right direction.
So we're back in the right directionand really set this next year to have
a great year. Coach, didyou think you'd be at Concordia Orvine this
long. I mean two decades now, you were an assistant coach at a
couple of spots and you get yourfirst head coaching gig at Concordia University of
Irvine. I mean, you wina national championship in year two. Did

(03:23):
you see yourself being here this longand really being the foundation of this program
for so many years? No,I didn't. I came into it really
excited just to have you know,I wasn't really over anxious to be a
head coach like a lot of assistantsare. But then once I got the
job, I was really really excitedto you know, build something. But

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you know, I'd come from myplaying background was more more mostly Division one
and coaching too. I coached atMy playing was mostly JC in Division one,
and my coaching was the same,So I didn't really know a lot
of these small schools and how competitivethe level was. So, you know,
my first my last assistant spot wasat AZUSA Pacific in the Conference,

(04:08):
and that was where I really learnedthis level. And then when I got
this, you know, I wasexcited just to have the part. I
didn't really have many long term Ithought I was going to go Division one
pretty quick. And try to getback into that level. It was my
original goal, which is still opento it, if you know, that's
the plan for me. But youknow, I'm I'm happy here. I
love this level. It's it's agreat level to have a balanced life,

(04:31):
which is really really hard even atthis level to do and a lot of
coaches struggle with that, and soit's been great. You know, my
wife and I have blended a familyof four kids and we have one together,
so they have five children, andyou know, they're all really close
and you know, we felt goodabout you know, being able to raised
them. They're all now in latetwenties and so you know and married and

(04:56):
nipped some kids in their own.So it's been a great place to have
it, you know, really focus, you know, try and have a
successful career, but also you know, not been collect the more important things.
So I'm really very content with Andthe level is really challenging any im.
Division two are both really really hardand men's basketball, so it's been
a great challenge every year. Wementioned the success you had early on a

(05:18):
year two you win a national championshipat the NAIA level, and over the
years, you guys at Concord Universec R Vine have have morphed now into
the NC Double A and Division two. Talk a little bit about that coach
and how that process came, aboutwhy it was important if it was for
you guys to get to the NCDouble A Division two, and what are

(05:38):
some of the differences and hurdles youguys initially had to overcome making that change.
Yeah, well, going in justto go back even further, just
coming here, you know, theathletics department had you know, worked really
really hard to get to the levelsat hadn't really hit that high mark where
we're recognized as a national school andyou know, like we are now and

(06:02):
we're so strong and so many sports, we hadn't really reached that. We
had a lot of coaches who dida great job paving the way for us
to get to this point, butwe were the first ones to kind of
break through and you know, havereally good national success. And you know,
I didn't really know how long thatwould take. That was my goal,
and I would hope, you know, I hope that would happen,

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but I really didn't you know,we hadn't really done that, so I
didn't I knew I can only controllike the culture of the program. So
the coach before had really good successand it so loved really good years,
at the very end, the culturekind of dip, and so that was
my main thing I really wanted tobring to the table and guarantee I could,
you know, give the school aproduct they would be proud of on

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the court with effort and and allthat that the other coach had done too,
But I wanted to kind of makesure I really focused on that.
And then so the immediate you know, playing in a national two national championships
in a row and year two andthree in the title game was unexpected because
as specific where I came from isone of the most successful anyiyes in basketball

(07:08):
history, and they've gone to acouple of final fours, but they've never
won one. No One, Noone in our conference in the g SAC
back then had ever won a nationalchampionship in basketball and the entire history of
it. And we were the firstCalifornia ANYI to win it since since nineteen
forty two when we want it,since San Diego State was an I in
nineteen forty one, right, Soanyway, so we were you know,

(07:31):
that was very unexpected. And thenplaying four title games in ten years was
a great you know, accomplishment andnot really focused and I'll talk more about
the culture and stuff that we reallyfocused on and winning was more of a
by product. But Division two hasbeen a great new challenge. You know,
we did we were co champions ourfirst year going into the transition year,

(07:55):
which was never done before, andthen we finished second and we finished
in the top you know portion ofconference several times, but we haven't had
that that same level success. Wehave the NI which we really want to
do and I mean, I'm reallymotivated to do that. And so it's
been a new challenge playing some ofthe same teams, but a lot of
different ones, different setup, totallydifferent format to where you've got. You

(08:18):
know, the non conference is different, the regular seasons different, and the
postseason is different. Challenges, Sostill figuring that out. How to you
know, max out. I thinkwe got a good game plan for this
season. Coach you mentioned the wordculture, and I'm glad you. Dick's
I wanted to talk about that.How important is that for you in your

(08:39):
program? And to kind of piggybackthat, how hard is it to be
successful on the court? Because you'rea basketball coach and you know you want
to win, but at the sametime, have that culture in your program
where you're getting these guys to besuccessful on and off the court even when
basketball's done and they're off doing whateverthey're win after college. Yeah, I

(09:01):
mean the culture is everything. Really, you know, it's you can't win
a conference title every year, andcertainly you know I've been lucky to win
two an Ounce championships. We winanother one, it would be you know,
off the charts to be able todo that. So that's not your
main I don't want that to bethe determining factor on your success. Obviously,

(09:24):
that's a goal for every team totry and win a conference title every
year, try and build a teamfor that, and everything we do is
built is focused on that goal allyear long with that in mind and getting
to the postseason, giving yourself achance to compete for those titles. But
really, I don't I've never madethat determining factor alone on whether it's success

(09:48):
successful year or not. Right,So those intangible things that we try that
we're not you know, the outsideworld doesn't really stat out for us.
I try to self evaluate it andgive our team a chance to have it
great experience. So we focus onthat student experience one of the way.
And even last year we we finishedyou know, five hundred, but our

(10:09):
seniors that you know, walked outof here with an incredible scene. You
know, we hadn't really cheerful,positive locker room after a hard loss or
you know, earlier than we wantedto in the conference tournament, and all
five of our senior guys that werejust you know, so grateful, and
you know, that felt good.That felt like to me, we had

(10:31):
a successful you know, and reallythe finish of the season is is what
really matters the most. So youknow, we focus on that journey from
day one, like in trying tobe in the present moment with those long
term goals in mind and you know, build the culture of of of trust,
you know, and it's such ahard process with so much adversity and
ups and downs, and you know, really how we finished the season each

(10:54):
year, how you know, howwe compete at the end of the year,
and it doesn't always happen. Youknow, I feel like I put
more of an effort into that thanany coach I know, and we still
have you know, a quarter ofthe seasons, maybe we don't quite hit
it to the market. I think, you know, it needs the minimum
level. I think it needs tobe at, so it is up to
the players. All I can dois create an environment which it takes.

(11:18):
It's very draining. I see whya lot of coaches don't do it,
whether it's on the skill set orthe desire. Even if they do,
going in, it's exhausting and itcan be uh, you know, it
can it can take. It cansuck the life outue when it doesn't happen
if you care a lot, right, So you know, I have to

(11:41):
have a staff that's all in onthat, and that's that's the most critical
thing too. I mean, myassistant coaches have been incredible in that I
could not have done anything that we'vedone here without them, and so but
yeah, I mean that's the kindof mark at the end of the year,
I'm measuring how I can go oversome of the details of that throughout

(12:01):
this if you want. But that'skind of the main thing. I guess
it really starts in with getting theright kid, the right student, a
basketball player for your program. Imean, especially in the times we are
now where with social media and hypingup kids, and everybody thinks they're going
to the NBA there, they allthink they're going to whatever level they're going

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to go to. To get akid to come and buy in and buy
into the culture, I imagine that'sthe first hurdle you have to get over,
right, Well, yeah, andthat's the big challenges a society goes
further away from you know, intoa more selfish mode into a look at
the lack of trust going on inour society right now for a lot of

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reasons, you know. And soyeah, it is a big challenge,
and it's it's harder, and soyou do have to have you know,
those people that can that have theability and capability of being able to trust
you, because they have to beable to trust me. And I never
lied to him. I think that'sthe number one thing. You know,
an old legendary coach named Bud Pressley, I was a coach at Menlo College

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and he was involved in the defense. He was original pressure guy or one
of them. And you know hewas remember that great UNLV team that won
it in ninety and ninety one,the play the greatest defensive team. You
know, certainly that and you knowmaybe of all time, you know,
comparing them, but they're you know, he was a big part of building
that defense. But he was aJC coach in the area and I met
with him when I was a veryyoung assistant, and he says, best

(13:35):
coaching book you ever read was Turnedthe Rye. And you know, I
said, well, it seems like, you know, high school English book,
not a coaching book. But hesaid, he said, well,
it's because the book's about, youknow, the young kid who he's you
know, all these phony adults aroundhim all the time just drive them nuts.
So he said, the number oneless takeaway from that is, you
know, never lie to your players. They're always going to know. So

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if you're ever phony with them orvague or to trick them or you know,
dishonest anyway, they're always gonna There'sthe trust goes out the window right
there. So you know, Ialways feel like it's hypocritical of coaches to
ask players to you know, chooseteam over self and you know, have
high individual goals, but be willingto sacrifice those for the betterment of the

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group. Right, So it's hardto get people to buy into that.
But if the coaches aren't, youknow, if the coaches are in it
for their own careers first and theirown egos, it's I think it's hypocritical
to demand that of players to notyou know, do the same thing.
So we try to. It's soimportant for our whole staff to be close
first and model that togetherness and youknow, have that servantly. You know,

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my coaches and I have all played, almost all of us that have
ever been here have all played thegame or at least have the type of
attitude like we had our great experiencein college and student experience, and so
this is their time and so wewe are you know, willing leaders to
do everything we can, you know, to give them the best you know,

(15:05):
experience they can. And as astudent athlete in college, I love
it, love it. Coach,who are some of the mentors that you
looked at to you You mentioned onealready, but who are some of the
coaches maybe a young coach that whenyou were young, a basketball coach,
or a teacher or going through life. Who are some of the mentors that
have really imprinted on you to makeyou the coach you are now. I've

(15:31):
been very blessed to have played foryou know, I had really just one
high school coach. I had adisastrous D two experienced my freshman year where
I got you know, the coachgot fired and we had a new coach
that came in took my scholarship.And then I had a JC coach that
was my favorite coach I ever playedfor, Dana Pagett. He was he

(15:54):
was a tremendous and assistant coach there. You know, that's where I literally
learned about you know, pressure defenseand taking away things out and you know,
putting the heat on people and that'sthe way we played and that's how
we play now. So I learnedthat as a player from them. I
played for Mike Montgomery at Stanford,who was you know, you know,
I think he's still almost successful coachever there and so you know, he's

(16:17):
he was so good at certain aspectsof the game that I really, you
know, got a lot out of. And then number one team building mentor
I ever had was a JC coachthat I worked for, Michaelagarza in uh
in San francisqu Area, and thatwas, you know, that's been a
huge He had a huge impact inthat short two years I worked for him

(16:37):
on you know, so much ofwhat we do here with our culture.
Lorenzo Romar at Peppernine was just atremendous role model for you know, how
to be a Christian leader. He'syou know, he's the best. So
and then Bill Adell was really successfulat the high school in ANYI levels as
Successfuichn based. So I had alot of really good mentors I worked for

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that have you know, been reallytransformational for me. So I feel like
I've taken a little bit from everybodyand that's been that's been great. And
but yeah, my assistant coaches too. I feel like, you know,
that was an unexpected benefit going intothis. I thought I was going to
impact all these kids and you know, change all these lives, and there's
been some of that. But butcoaching is a little uh, you know,

(17:22):
Bill Walsh said at best, ifyou expect to be appreciated as a
coach, you're gonna be an unhappycoach. So, you know, coaching
is like parenting. You know,they appreciate you much more after they leave,
and they thank you when they leave, and you know you don't get
a lot of that when they're here. Which if you're if you need that,
you're going to be frustrated. SoI get less of that than I
thought going in, But then anunexpected huge benefit, But I had no

(17:44):
idea. It was the camaraderie I'vehad with you know, guys I worked
with, you know, before Igot here, and since I've been here,
my assistant coach has been some ofthe best people I've ever met in
my life. And uh, youknow those are all my all the my
great friends over my life or ourguys that worked with. So that's been
a real positive benefit. Now notonly are you sharing your wisdom on the
court as a basketball court coach,but you've also taught some classes and the

(18:10):
matches and coaching and athletics administration programthere can Coarta University Irvine. Talk a
little bit about that and how howdifferent is that for you to get in
the classroom setting and teach basketball orget in the classroom setting and teach others
outside of basketball. You know,between the lines, it's been great.
H kind of like, you know, the unexpected benefit of doing that.

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You know, my assistant coaches thatI've gotten more from them than I've given
them. And so you know,the few classes I've taught in person have
been great, you know, Itry to make it real, interactive and
you know, get their input.Even if they're really young coaches, junior
high coach, high school coaches,they still have a lot to add and

(18:53):
you know that part has been great. And when I first I was asked
to do some of these classes onmy you know, this sports psychology class,
I'm like, I don't know ifI'm ready. You know, I
have two degrees in psychology, butyou know, it's been a while since
I you know, I'm like,I don't know if I'm ready for this.
I don't know if I kind ofdreaded it a little bit or regretted,
and then I really really enjoyed itand got way more out of it

(19:15):
than I thought. So it's beena great experience and the program has been
great. You know Tom White startedit, you know, so many years
ago. We were the first onesever come up with this type of program.
So we are really you know fora young school, I Concordia to
be a you know, such apioneer in this field. It's been great.
And you know, Jim coonw hasbeen such a great addition and uh,

(19:37):
you know, new energy and hisexperience and personal touch on it is
really going to be great. Soyou mentioned philosophy. I'm gona go back
on the court with you. Coach. You mentioned philosophy and being aggressive on
defense and pressure defense. What kindof program is your program at Concordy as
far as the offense are, weare, well the way way bait,

(19:59):
the way bad basketball is now Ishould put his you know, it's his
running gun, three point shooting fortythree point shots a game. Is that
it your program as well? Orwhat's your philosophy offensively? Yeah, we've
really evolved with the game. Youknow, when you're we had all those
thirty win seasons in a row andyou know, twenty five, we're averaging
like almost thirty wins a year foryou know, over a decade, you

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know, it's hard to change becauseif you're but then when we have a
little those dip years where we strugglea little bit with our wins, that's
when you're really looking to change stuff. So those are the years we've really
changed a lot of things, especiallyoffensively. We've you know, went from
a three outdual penetration and stuff whenwe first started, a lot of posts

(20:44):
power you know, powering them thegames. You know, it's hard to
get those good post players sometimes,so we went to four out and now
we really do a lot on theNBA. People that don't know basketball.
A lot of my friends that theycan't watch it, that it drives them
nuts to watch some of the NBAbecause they don't. There's there's so much
more offense and coaching going on thanthe average I picks up. You know,

(21:08):
it's like, these guys are thethese guys are the best players.
They're running the best stuff that's thehardest to guard and stop. And you
know it sounds hard for old schoolthinkers with all the screening that we used
to do to get shots, andyou know, it seemed like a better
team way to play. But really, I mean the way they play now,

(21:29):
they're getting better shots with doing alot less of that. You could
set fifty five screens and forty passesand not get the shot they're getting right
now off a lot less because thespacing the skill of the players is so
much better. You know, whenI played, I was I was a
great shooter, and you know,I was really neat. I don't know

(21:52):
if I could make it safe becausethese the athleticism has improved so much.
But they shoot the ball as goodor better than I did, and I
was an elite shooter. So thegame's really gotten better and you have to
adapt with it or it's gonna behard to win. So I really like
the way we are our offenses.I feel like we're good at that.
We're a defense first program. Likeyou kind of picked up from what we're

(22:15):
talking about. We've always have been, always will be. I think that's
how you win championships, and youhave to win games. You have to
get stops to win games. Soyeah, our defensive store bread and butter.
But yeah, we definitely care alot more about offense than people think.
So yeah, well, coach,we appreciate the time. Thank you

(22:36):
so much. Continued success on andoff the court. You've you've taken that
program and taken it to a biggerlevel in a couple of national championships.
I have no doubt that you'll getback to the pinnacle here at the Division
two level in the NC Double Ahere very soon. You've gotten through COVID,
navigated through that, and I knowbig things are coming up for you

(22:56):
in your program. Again, thankyou so much for talking about your program,
sharing a little bit about yourself withour listeners and viewers out there and
again continue success and thank you forjoining us here on the podcast. My
pleasure. Thank you. That's KenAmmen. He is the head basketball coach
at Concordia University, Irvine. Whata great guy. What a job he
has done in over two decades asthe head basketball coach of the Eagles.

(23:21):
His second year in national championship,then he won another national championship in twenty
twelve. He has helped take theprogram from NAIA to NC DOUBLEA Division two.
No doubt big things in store forhim and his program there at Concordia
University, Irvine. Another great guest, another great person, great coach here
on the Masters in Coaching podcast.Hope you enjoyed that. Again to find

(23:45):
out more about the Masters in Coachingand Athletics Administration program at Concordia University,
Irvine. But as CUI dot eeduslash Coaching, remember the California Coaches Conference
is coming up June twenty seventh throughJuly one. You can find out all
about that, how you can participate, and how you can get involved in
the workshops. Again CUI dot dU slash Coaching. Thanks to coach,

(24:07):
and thanks to you for listening andwatching episode forty one of the Masters in
Coaching podcast, now in the books. Until next time, Tim Kit saying
so long everybody,