Bill Madden, Author and Baseball columnist Interview

Bill Madden talks with Mendte in the Morning about the decision by MLB to remove Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson from the banned list, making them eligible for the Hall of Fame again.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, big news in the baseball world yesterday when Major
League Baseball Commissioner Paul Manfred removed Pete Rose and sixteen
other deceased individuals from the permanently ineligible list, making them
eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame. In
those sixteen was shoeless Joe Jackson. Before we get to

(00:23):
a legendary baseball columnist Bill Madden, I do want to
play you a part of the last interview with Pete Rose,
where he talked about his ineligibility.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I keep convincing myself for telling myself hang in here, Pete,
You'll get a second chance. This is the one country
that gives you a second chance. And I've been suspended
for almost thirty years, and I've been close to a
second chance. So I continue to hope to someday I'll
get a second chance, and I won't need a third

(00:57):
I won't need a third chance. There again, in the
hands of Baseball. The Commission of Baseball is a good guy,
mister Manford. I know he's got a tough job.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Just a couple of months off after that interview, Pete
Rose died. That was last year, September of twenty twenty four.
And to talk about this. As I said, Bill Madden
has covered the Yankees in Major League Baseball for over
fifty years, including more than four decades with the New
York Daily News. He is a best selling author and

(01:32):
the twenty ten recipient of Baseball Hall of Fame's J. G.
Taylor Spink Award. He's got a new book out, Yankees Typewriters,
Scandals and Cooper'stown, a baseball memoir, just out last month.
How appropriate for today, Bill, I'd love to have you
back to talk about the book. I'd love to read

(01:54):
the book, so it sounds great, But today let's just
talk about Pete Rose, if that's okay. And what was
your reaction when you heard, Bill?

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Well, I wasn't surprised, because once Manford revealed that he'd
have this meeting with Pete Rose's relatives and he was
once again considering this whole matter, I assumed that probably
he would he would rule and to reinstate him, and

(02:29):
for the basically for the reasons that he gave. You know,
the guy is dead, and a lifetime ban is a
lifetime ban, and if you're dead, you're no longer have
a lifetime So I got that was his reasoning me personally,
I don't know how I've been up back and forth
on Pete Rose for thirty years. I always liked the guy.

(02:51):
He was a writer's delight. He'd love to, you know,
you could go to his locker and talk baseball, you know,
before games and after games, and he would go on
and on, and he loved the writers. I think I
think it's important to understand that when Bart Giamatti, the commissioner,

(03:12):
first rule that he was going to go on the
permanent ineligible list, Giamatti never said anything about the Hall
of Fame. He left that open. All he said was
that Pete you need to reconfigure your life, and if
you do, then you know this is up for appeal basically.

(03:37):
But what happened was in nineteen ninety two when nineteen
ninety one, when Rose had been out of the game
for five years, he was now eligible for the Hall
of Fame, and it was the Hall of Fame that
this decided that anybody on the permanent ineligible list was
ineligible for the Hall of Fame, effectively taking the matter

(04:01):
of Rose away from the Baseball Runners Association. We were
not happy about that because it was clearly the Hall
of Fame's opinion or the Board of Director's opinion that
they were worried that we would vote him in. And
you know, we never got a chance to decide one

(04:23):
way or the other. It's been all these years.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
On that point. Is is it your feeling that the
Baseball writers would have voted him in on the first ballot.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
I don't think so. I don't think he would have
got in on the first ballot. I think he would
have eventually gotten in if he was eligible, because we'd
be having this debate every year, and usually when these
things happen and you debate about someone every year, eventually
the people who want him in went over the people
that don't want him in. I've seen that happen with

(04:54):
all various veterans Committee choices like Dick Allen and people
like that that finally get in. So I think, yeah,
we would have voted him in. But the problem with
Pete was he always did something that made you stop
and think. You know, my feeling about Pete Rose about

(05:16):
the whole thing with gambling was no question he broke
Baseball's cardinal rule, and he deserved to pay a price
for that. But the difference between Pete Rose and the
steroids guys was night and day. In my opinion, the
steroids guys cheated the game, and what they did was,
in my opinion, unforgivable. In Pete's case, he may have

(05:39):
broken baseball's cardinal rule, but he never cheated the game.
He always played all out and for me, that's why
I probably would have voted for him.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
It's interesting you say that about the steroid guys because
when I was listening to this last interview with Pete Rose,
he was talking about them, and he said, look, Barry
Bonds had seven hundred and fifteen home runs before four
before he was taking steroids, and he deserves to be
in for just that reason alone. But you don't think
the steroid people will ever get in, Well, it doesn't

(06:12):
look like they're going to get in.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
And I never bought that argument, because that was like
saying Shule's Joe was a Hall of Fame player until
he got involved in the nineteen nineteen World Series.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Right, It's true.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
It's the same thing. I mean, you know, just because
Barry Bonds was a great player once he started doing steroids,
I mean that's a deal breaker. I don't care how
great a player he was before. There's no question he
would never have hit that many home runs if he
hadn't done steroids.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
So it's interesting, and we only have about a minute left.
But it's interesting that you say he won't get in
on the first ballot. So when he comes up in
twenty twenty seven, does some of the voters feel like
because obviously he's the all time hit leader just on
talent alone, he should be in on the first ballot,
but they have to make a statement that he did
do something wrong and then vote for him later to

(07:04):
get in.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
No, I didn't mean this. I meant for the baseball
writers if we had been given a chance to vote
on him, I don't think he would have made it
in on the first battle with us. I got it
in this case. I think he'll probably get in and
I think Shuless Joe will probably get in as well.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Wow, they both deserve and I thought I thought they'd
want to send a message though.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
No, Well I don't know. I you know, it's a
strange committee. It's formed, it's got former players, a lot
of wom played against even with Pete, are on that committee.
There's owners on that committee, there's writers on that committee.
It's a I think it's eighteen people on the committee.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Well, that's fascinating, Bill, Bill, it's fascinating that you that
that everything you've said to is fascinating. We'd love to
have you back to talk about your new book, Yankees Typewriters,
Scandals in Cooperstown, a baseball memoir, just out last month.
Can't wait to have you back.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Bill.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Thank you, Okay, thank you.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Oh bye,