April 22, 2025 • 8 mins
David Gibson speaks with Mendte in the Morning about the passing of Pope Francis and the arrangements for his funeral he was able to make before his passing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, we are still in the wake of it. And
we talked about this a little while ago. It was
still shocking that Pope Francis died, even though he was
going through health problems, even though he's been going health
through health problems his entire life, really, but especially over
the last few months since February when he was hospitalized.
(00:21):
People thought he might die back then, but the fact
that came the day after he met with JD. Vance.
I mean, he looked weak and he was in a wheelchair,
but he didn't look like he was on death's door
at that moment. And then he came out and he
spoke to the faithful at the Vatican, and so you
thought everything was okay. And then the next day he
(00:43):
allegedly had a stroke and that was the end. So
it was still a little bit surprising. But what's next,
what's next in the whole process for the pope and
the funeral and picking a new pope. Well, David Gibson
is the director of the Center on Religion and Culture
at Fordham University, so he's the perfect person to talk
(01:04):
to about this. David, thanks for joining us this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Great to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Larry, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So let's talk about the funeral first. And it's surprising
the funerals, a little surprising because it's not like many
of the past popes who had this big, ornate funeral.
That's not what this pope wants.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
No, he simplified the rights, although yeah, you're not going
to see that much of a difference. He simplified, for example,
the coffin. You know, it used to be four or
five different layers of zinc and Cyprus wood and all
these kinds of things, and he simplified that just to
a very simple wooden coffin casket. And he, you know,
(01:45):
he simplified the funeral right. Had actually done that.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
When Pope Benedict the sixteenth died, remember two years ago
was a New Year's e.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Day, and they've been stripping this down and it was
a little odd with pet but at the sixteenth because
he had retired and he was out of sight for
you know, ten years, and normally when.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
A pope dies, it's such a big, grand.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Occasion, and this one will be too. But the fact
that they're having it very simply probably going to close
the casket after the viewing. He didn't want an extended
viewing the way they've done for other popes. And he's
also going to be buried in Saint Mary Major, not
Saint Peter's, where there's a papal crypt. One hundred previous
popes or so have been buried there. But he loved
(02:32):
Saint Mary's a basilica of Saint Mary Major across town.
That's where he really had a great devotion.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
And he's got a little little niche that he picked
out there.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
But this is sort of the way he served as
pope too. He always wanted to be among the people.
He seemed to have never forgotten where he came.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
From, absolutely, and that's you know, they talk about him
as a people's pope, and he really was. He called
himself as the world parish priest. He didn't mean that
he was substituting for your parish priest. It says that
he wanted to come across as you're the way your
pastor would. And it was that touch that he had,
(03:10):
that human touch. You know, he said, we priests have
to be normal, we have to be you know, engaged
with people with their daily lives. And he did that
in a real sense of humility. And again, you know,
he really disdained the pomp and circumstance that is built
up around the papacy for centuries.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
And that's again he did that and he made.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
It a signature of his papacy. But you know, give
previous popes and you know, going back to John the
twenty third, but especially Paul the sixth giving up the
papal tiara for example of the inauguration of the pope.
This has been a fifty sixty year process I think
of simplifying, getting back to a more gospel centric sort
of papacy.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But it plays into where he came from. I mean,
he grew up poor in Buenos Aires. I mean he
was not ever a per that was rich, and so
it makes a lot of sense that he would be
he would go out this way too.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Absolutely, and that's what you have to remember, you know,
all his concern for immigrants and speaking out on migrants
and refugees, his parents were immigrants from Italy. They fled
Italy from Mussolini's Italy and went to Argentina, and he
grew up as the son of immigrants, so he knows
what that is and that drove him to continue to
(04:27):
minister in the barrios and then the slums all around
Buenos Aires and Argentina, and that he carried that with
him as well. And you know, and he was a Jesuit,
young Jesuit head of the Jesuit province in Argentina or
Uruguay when he's just in his.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Mid thirties, as he said, way too young.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But that was during the Dirty War in Argentina when
the generals were running thing and disappearing people.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And he carries those memories, those scars with him, and that.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Really affected how he approached his priority.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
His priorities were not the pomp and circumstances. It was
the gospel.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It was meeting the person, it was evangelizing, it was
going out into the street. Remember he said, I want
a church that goes out into the street and that
risk getting bruised and battered.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Well, we all think we're an expert now on how
a pope is selected, you know, because we saw the
movie Conclave. Now, when is that process going to start?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah? The movie conclavet was pretty good. Just don't count
on an ending like Conflict.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We're not going to be spoilers here, Larry. I'm not
going to ruin it for everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
But you know, the only thing I can firmly say
about the outcome of this conclaict is.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It will not be like the movie version that said
the version is not bad.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm not Do not ask me who is going to
be elected pope. If anybody says they like they know
who's going.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
To be elected, then they're fools, you know, the only
the only experts know that they don't know anything.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Seriously, go ahead, go ahead, No.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
There's already betting odds out Oh I know, and yeah,
and so we should ignore the betting odds.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Save your money, send a check to Foredom.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, is he allowed to say that? Yeah, of course,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, at the Jesuit University, we can get away with
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
The uh No, I mean the betting odds.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
You know, these guys don't know everybody's you know, some
of the cardinals in there, like over eighty.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Again, when you talk about the process of the card
you have to realize there.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
A two hundred and fifty cardinals more or less out there.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Only one hundred and thirty five are under the age
of eighty and.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Thus eligible to vote for the pope in the Sistine Chapel.
And so there's one hundred and thirty five. Any in one.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Of them could be chosen to be the next Pope
could walk out on the balcony of Saint Peter's dressed
in white.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
But the thing that gets.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Lost in the conclave move be understandably is that most
of the real work and sort of well not politicking,
but sort of kind of assessing the potential candidates goes
on in what these meetings called the General Congregations, which
officially start today, but they run for ten days two weeks,
(07:19):
and it's when all the cardinals come together for to
discuss what the church needs now. You can't campaign, You
can't say, look I want to vote for Pope Larry
or something like that.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
You do want.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
To say, look, this is what the church needs now,
and you get up there in front of all the
other cardinals and you talk about what the church needs
and that probably lines up.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Perfectly with one or two people who you want to
be Pope.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That said, these General Congregation meetings are rather boring. They
last for two weeks, but that's where the real work
gets done. So that when they then process into the
Sistine Chapel, close the door, eggsunt omness, everyone out, lock
the door.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Cone Clave with the key.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
The conclave itself usually only lasts a couple of days,
and it's not nearly as dramatic.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
As the movie, and the ending is probably gonna be
a lot better than the movie. David Gibson, directors Center
on Religion and Culture and Fordham University. Hope to have
you back soon. Thanks David.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Great to be here. Thanks
Oh, we are still in the wake of it. And
we talked about this a little while ago. It was
still shocking that Pope Francis died, even though he was
going through health problems, even though he's been going health
through health problems his entire life, really, but especially over
the last few months since February when he was hospitalized.
(00:21):
People thought he might die back then, but the fact
that came the day after he met with JD. Vance.
I mean, he looked weak and he was in a wheelchair,
but he didn't look like he was on death's door
at that moment. And then he came out and he
spoke to the faithful at the Vatican, and so you
thought everything was okay. And then the next day he
(00:43):
allegedly had a stroke and that was the end. So
it was still a little bit surprising. But what's next,
what's next in the whole process for the pope and
the funeral and picking a new pope. Well, David Gibson
is the director of the Center on Religion and Culture
at Fordham University, so he's the perfect person to talk
(01:04):
to about this. David, thanks for joining us this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Great to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Larry, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So let's talk about the funeral first. And it's surprising
the funerals, a little surprising because it's not like many
of the past popes who had this big, ornate funeral.
That's not what this pope wants.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
No, he simplified the rights, although yeah, you're not going
to see that much of a difference. He simplified, for example,
the coffin. You know, it used to be four or
five different layers of zinc and Cyprus wood and all
these kinds of things, and he simplified that just to
a very simple wooden coffin casket. And he, you know,
(01:45):
he simplified the funeral right. Had actually done that.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
When Pope Benedict the sixteenth died, remember two years ago
was a New Year's e.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Day, and they've been stripping this down and it was
a little odd with pet but at the sixteenth because
he had retired and he was out of sight for
you know, ten years, and normally when.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
A pope dies, it's such a big, grand.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Occasion, and this one will be too. But the fact
that they're having it very simply probably going to close
the casket after the viewing. He didn't want an extended
viewing the way they've done for other popes. And he's
also going to be buried in Saint Mary Major, not
Saint Peter's, where there's a papal crypt. One hundred previous
popes or so have been buried there. But he loved
(02:32):
Saint Mary's a basilica of Saint Mary Major across town.
That's where he really had a great devotion.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
And he's got a little little niche that he picked
out there.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
But this is sort of the way he served as
pope too. He always wanted to be among the people.
He seemed to have never forgotten where he came.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
From, absolutely, and that's you know, they talk about him
as a people's pope, and he really was. He called
himself as the world parish priest. He didn't mean that
he was substituting for your parish priest. It says that
he wanted to come across as you're the way your
pastor would. And it was that touch that he had,
(03:10):
that human touch. You know, he said, we priests have
to be normal, we have to be you know, engaged
with people with their daily lives. And he did that
in a real sense of humility. And again, you know,
he really disdained the pomp and circumstance that is built
up around the papacy for centuries.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
And that's again he did that and he made.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
It a signature of his papacy. But you know, give
previous popes and you know, going back to John the
twenty third, but especially Paul the sixth giving up the
papal tiara for example of the inauguration of the pope.
This has been a fifty sixty year process I think
of simplifying, getting back to a more gospel centric sort
of papacy.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But it plays into where he came from. I mean,
he grew up poor in Buenos Aires. I mean he
was not ever a per that was rich, and so
it makes a lot of sense that he would be
he would go out this way too.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Absolutely, and that's what you have to remember, you know,
all his concern for immigrants and speaking out on migrants
and refugees, his parents were immigrants from Italy. They fled
Italy from Mussolini's Italy and went to Argentina, and he
grew up as the son of immigrants, so he knows
what that is and that drove him to continue to
(04:27):
minister in the barrios and then the slums all around
Buenos Aires and Argentina, and that he carried that with
him as well. And you know, and he was a Jesuit,
young Jesuit head of the Jesuit province in Argentina or
Uruguay when he's just in his.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Mid thirties, as he said, way too young.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But that was during the Dirty War in Argentina when
the generals were running thing and disappearing people.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And he carries those memories, those scars with him, and that.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Really affected how he approached his priority.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
His priorities were not the pomp and circumstances. It was
the gospel.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It was meeting the person, it was evangelizing, it was
going out into the street. Remember he said, I want
a church that goes out into the street and that
risk getting bruised and battered.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Well, we all think we're an expert now on how
a pope is selected, you know, because we saw the
movie Conclave. Now, when is that process going to start?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah? The movie conclavet was pretty good. Just don't count
on an ending like Conflict.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We're not going to be spoilers here, Larry. I'm not
going to ruin it for everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
But you know, the only thing I can firmly say
about the outcome of this conclaict is.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It will not be like the movie version that said
the version is not bad.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm not Do not ask me who is going to
be elected pope. If anybody says they like they know
who's going.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
To be elected, then they're fools, you know, the only
the only experts know that they don't know anything.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Seriously, go ahead, go ahead, No.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
There's already betting odds out Oh I know, and yeah,
and so we should ignore the betting odds.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Save your money, send a check to Foredom.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, is he allowed to say that? Yeah, of course,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, at the Jesuit University, we can get away with
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
The uh No, I mean the betting odds.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
You know, these guys don't know everybody's you know, some
of the cardinals in there, like over eighty.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Again, when you talk about the process of the card
you have to realize there.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
A two hundred and fifty cardinals more or less out there.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Only one hundred and thirty five are under the age
of eighty and.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Thus eligible to vote for the pope in the Sistine Chapel.
And so there's one hundred and thirty five. Any in one.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Of them could be chosen to be the next Pope
could walk out on the balcony of Saint Peter's dressed
in white.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
But the thing that gets.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Lost in the conclave move be understandably is that most
of the real work and sort of well not politicking,
but sort of kind of assessing the potential candidates goes
on in what these meetings called the General Congregations, which
officially start today, but they run for ten days two weeks,
(07:19):
and it's when all the cardinals come together for to
discuss what the church needs now. You can't campaign, You
can't say, look I want to vote for Pope Larry
or something like that.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
You do want.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
To say, look, this is what the church needs now,
and you get up there in front of all the
other cardinals and you talk about what the church needs
and that probably lines up.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Perfectly with one or two people who you want to
be Pope.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That said, these General Congregation meetings are rather boring. They
last for two weeks, but that's where the real work
gets done. So that when they then process into the
Sistine Chapel, close the door, eggsunt omness, everyone out, lock
the door.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Cone Clave with the key.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
The conclave itself usually only lasts a couple of days,
and it's not nearly as dramatic.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
As the movie, and the ending is probably gonna be
a lot better than the movie. David Gibson, directors Center
on Religion and Culture and Fordham University. Hope to have
you back soon. Thanks David.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Great to be here. Thanks
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