Hour 2: The passing of Pope Francis

The passing of Pope Francis.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning to you. Thanks for being with us today
in the Big Three.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I was still shocking news, although I think everybody saw
it coming because the Pope had been sick for so long.
But Pope Francis has died on Easter Monday, after wishing
the faithful a happy Easter from the balcony of Saint
Peter's Basilica.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Fatelli, borna Pasca.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
The Pope had been fighting pneumonia and he's had problems
with his lungs from when he was a child. Pope
Francis was eighty eight years old. Natalie Migliori is at
Saint Patrick's Cathedral. We'll be checking in with her throughout
the morning, and ABC's Jim Ryan's going to be with
us in just a couple of minutes to remember the
life and the legacy of Pope Francis. Democratic Senator Chris

(00:53):
van Holland is feeling some heat now after going to
Al Salvador to try and free a deport did MS
thirteen gang member, and he admits that when he was there,
when he was talking to kel Abrego Garcia, this never
came up.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
You didn't ask him.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
I didn't ask him that because I know what His
answer is what he told me was he was sad
and traumatized that he was being in prison because he
has committed no crimes.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Never asked him that he was an MS thirteen gang member,
because of course he didn't want to know the answer.
Mayor Adams does an interview on Fox News to explain
why he left the Democratic Party.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
I think it's just common sense. You know, what does
everyday New Yorkers want? And you know, I use the
terminology all the time. People say, well, you know you
left the Democratic Party. You know the party left me?
And should today Easter Monday be a holiday?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Now?

Speaker 5 (01:55):
I don't view this as a Republican thing or a
Democrat thing. This is a very American thing, honoring a
holiday that's celebrated by eighty one percent of Americans. And
I just think it would give people an opportunity as
there if they're traveling to spend time with loved ones
and celebrate Eastern.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
That editor Eric Schmidt, he has a bill that he's
authored in the Senate right now that would make today,
the day after Easter a holiday, starting as early as
next year, and it sounds like it has a whole
lot of support. So and I'm sure it has support
from support of me and I'm sure from you. Now,

(02:32):
let's talk more about the life and legacy of Pope
Francis with Jim Ryan, who is the ABC News correspondent
in Dallas. Jim, as I said at the top of
the of the hour, it was still shocking. I think
we all saw it coming, but it was still surprising.

Speaker 6 (02:51):
Well, you're right, yeah, I think it was shocking. I
started getting emails this morning and stand by for a
message from the Vatican, And you're right. Should it have
been surprising? Maybe not eighty eight years old guy who's
been in the hospital recently double pneumonia. If the Vatican
said he was near death five times during his time
in the hospital. And yet I think a lot of

(03:12):
people were surprised, Larry, to see the Pope there on
the balcony at the Vatican yesterday and delivering a brief
Easter message. People were surprised at that it had made
enough of a comeback. Not only had he been released
from the hospital, but was participating in those ceremonies at
the Vatican yesterday. Most of the message was given by others,
but he did have personal messages as a part of that,

(03:36):
So you're right. I think it was surprising this morning,
shocking to see that the pope had died.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, you know what, that's a great point, Jim, And
that's probably why it was surprising, because we saw him
with JD. Vance, We saw him at Saint Peter's Basilica,
so we thought, oh, he's doing okay right now, and
then there you go the next day and he's gone.
But he did hold out for Easter. What what is
his legacy, what does he leave Bond?

Speaker 6 (04:03):
Well, I think a leftward move of the church, right,
I think that's kind of undeniable. From the very start.
He embraced the people he considered the disenfranchised, the refugees,
the migrants of the world, even asked about a pope
who was gay, saying that that's not him to judge,
and so reaching out sort of to the LGBTQ plus

(04:25):
community and shunning the rich and powerful of the world.
And yeah, he did have some scuffles with more traditionalists
within the church. So I think that's kind of his legacy,
is that he moved the church a little to the left,
or attempted to. Now, does that mean that there are
more Catholics today than there were twelve years ago when

(04:46):
he came in. It's hard to say. We won't know
that for some time. One point four billion people around
the world are adherents of Catholicism. And whether whether there's
a net gain or a net loss of Catholics because
of his policies, we probably won't know for some time.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
You know, you can understand why he had such an
empathy for the poor, and such an empathy especially for
poor children, calling them the pilgrims of hope at one point,
because he grew up poor, he grew up in poverty
in Argentina.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
He did.

Speaker 6 (05:19):
And then he was the first he was a janitor
going into the priesthood, and he was the first Latin
American pope. He was the first Jesuit pope. You know,
the church has shifted dramatically in the last hundred years
or so, and we'll see where it goes next. Could
there be an African pope, Could there be an Asian pope?

(05:41):
You know, I think almost anything is on the table
at this point. There was a great movie, Larry. I
don't know if you saw this last year or maybe
earlier this year, the Conclave. It's a fiction, of course,
but it really offers a fascinating look at this process
of choosing popes. And after this nine day period of morning,
popes or bishops from around the world, cardinals from seventy

(06:03):
countries will head to Roam. They'll sit down as the
College of Cardinals and begin this process, this fascinating and
this this traditional and secret process of choosing popes.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Right, I think a lot of people saw the Conclave
and a lot more people are going to watch it
now because it's I'm sure it's going to be thrust
into the forefront and all the streaming services.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
But you're right.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
It was a wonderful movie. It was up for the
Best Movie, It was up for an Academy Award, and
Ray Fines was incredible in it was up for Best Actors.
So I think everybody should watch that to understand what's
going to happen now in the coming weeks. But this,
this isn't going to happen right away. When do they
start the conclave?

Speaker 6 (06:44):
Well, I don't think there's a firm date set for
that yet. There are there are a little piece, I mean,
every detail now is being released. The moving of the
body into the coffin that was put out by the
Vatican here a short time ago they bringing the family
members out to the Vatican. So there are small pieces

(07:04):
that will take place over the next nine days of Mourning,
and at that point then I think we'll know more
firmly when the College of Cardinals will actually convene.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
You were talking a moment ago about the number of
Catholics in the world, and the number of Catholics by percentage,
has gone up in some segments of the world. It's
going up in South America, it's gone up in Africa,
and that now seems to be the stronghold of the
Catholic Church always Europe. Yeah, but America, even though there's
more Catholics than there were, the percentage of Catholics has

(07:38):
gone down. And you mentioned a moment ago about getting
having an American pope. I think it would be a
smart thing for the Vatican to do. I'm not sure
they're ready for that, but it would be a smart
thing for the Conclave to do, because they need something
like that in America to bring Catholics back.

Speaker 6 (07:57):
Well, sure, yeah, I mean there are lots and lots
of choices for people who are seeking faith in this country,
and the traditional churches, the Catholic Church and some of
the southern churches. But you've got megachurches, you know, that
are opening up and thriving around the country while people
are walking away from the Catholic Church. So, yes, the

(08:18):
Latin American Pope Francis may have been a harbinger of
a pope coming from North America, maybe even the United States.
It'd be interesting to see what happens.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, they lost a lot of Catholics during the priest
abuse scandal, and this pope took that head on.

Speaker 6 (08:36):
He did. He bungled at least one of the cases,
and that was frustrating for a lot of folks within
the church. But certainly that was something he was willing
to address. Pope John Paul was likewise willing to talk
about the scars of the Catholic Church. But so that's
far from over at this point.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
We're gonna hear a lot more about him over the
next few days. There's going to be a lot of ceremonies,
and we hope to talk to you again. Jim Ryan,
thanks a lot for your time this morning.

Speaker 6 (09:03):
Thanksley, see you, ABC.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Correspondent, Jim Ryan. Yeah, there's going to be so much
about Pope John the Pope. John Paul almost said, Pope
Francis over the next few days his life, You're going
to be hearing all lots about him, But the conclave
is going to be the most important thing that happens.
When the conclave happens, who the next Pope is. As

(09:29):
Jim Ryan talked about it a moment ago, he was
Pope Francis was extremely progressive, and the Catholic Church is
not progressive, never has been. It's steeped in history and
it's steeped in conservative values. So it's going to be
a fascinating political battle inside the Catholic Church as to

(09:49):
who replaces Pope Francis. And if I were to have
a gut reaction right now, I think they're going to
try to pull the church back to its conservative values,
and I think they're going to try to have another
Italian pope when we come back. Award winning columnist Mike

(10:12):
Kelly from North Jersey dot Com recalls his memories of
covering Pope Francis and Cuba. This should be fascinating. Join
us next as he shares his experience and his insights.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
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Speaker 2 (10:35):
Now let's talk to Mike Kelly, an award winning columnists
from North Jersey dot Com and The Record. And of course, Mike,
all we're talking about this morning is the passing of
Pope Francis.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
And you had the chance to cover him once. Talk
about that.

Speaker 7 (10:51):
I did. Yeah, Good morning, Larry, A very sad morning.
Uh I think, Uh yeah. I was twenty fifteen. My newspaper,
the Burg Records, sent me to Cuba to cover the
Pope's visit there. Obviously an interesting visit because Cuba, being
a communist country, largely had outlawed Catholicism or at least

(11:12):
marginalized it. And I was down there really kind of
with a dual assignment. I was also down there to
find some of the fugitives from America who were hiding there,
not which is Joanne Chesimard who murdered a New Jersey
state trooper years ago, and also Willie Morales, who blew
up France's tavern in nineteen seventy five. But anyway, I'm

(11:36):
down there and the Pope is going to speak on
a Sunday morning at the Plaza de la Revolution, which
is a huge expanse of asphalt that Castro used to
speak at and deliver these three hour speeches. And so
I got up at three o'clock in the morning to
get there, get through security, all this, and it's dawn
and I'm standing there and I'm really tired and figuring

(11:58):
I have about four hours to until the Pope finally
shows up. And all of a sudden, across the plaza,
I see this golf cart and a guy in white
and I'm thinking, no, this can't be And sure enough
it was the Pope riding around this huge asphalt like
a parking lot in a golf cart, high fiving people

(12:20):
who got there early. Unfortunately I didn't get just a
high five of them, but it was really quite a sight.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, he wanted to humanize the position of pope. He
took away a lot of the pomp and circumstance. And
you remember the old popemobile. He got rid of that
right away because he wanted to touch and feel the people.
So what you saw is exactly who he wanted to.

Speaker 7 (12:45):
Be yes, and the people responded to it. I mean,
keep in mind, Cuba was a largely non religious country
under Castro for decades, and then all of a sudden,
this man is riding around high fiving people, and people
were just running to him, uh, just to touch his
hand and that sort of thing. He had a very

(13:07):
very shy and kind of but yet inviting smile and thought,
and I think that that that drew people to him
as well. You know, of course, we all talk about
the many reforms that he tried to institute within within Catholicism,
but I think what, you know, what really touches people

(13:27):
on a on a very ordinary and human way is
his willingness and ability to just you know, hang out
with people. Remember when people were delivering pizzas to him.
It was you know, there was some pizza shop in
Rome that was delivering pizzas and apparently they got some
kind of an endorsement from the Pope and the and

(13:49):
of course that pizza franchise is doing very well right now.
But I found, however, that that you know, that he
had an ability to cross and a lot of a
lot of leaders don't really have that ability. But the
ones who are great do. And he had that ability

(14:10):
to cross those lines of pomp and circumstance and and
feel like, you know, one of the the kind of
person who could really you could sit down and have
a conversation with if you wanted to.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
What do you think happens now? Because he was a
progressive pope, and he was from what you hear, he
wasn't well liked among a very conservative Catholic church. Are
things going to change back to where they were? Will
they now go with more of the conservative.

Speaker 7 (14:40):
Well, yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that, because yes, there
are a lot of conservatives here in the United States
who very much opposed Pope Francis, some of whom I covered,
and I some of them. I know, it's hard to say, Larry,
I let's be honest here. The Catholic Church will always

(15:01):
be conservative. That's part of the brand, so to speak.
And even though Francis is known as a reformer, there
were a number of liberals who were upset that he
didn't go far enough, particularly with the sex abuse scandal.
He kind of stumbled early on in addressing that.

Speaker 8 (15:20):
But I think.

Speaker 7 (15:22):
There's some things that you really can't once this ocean
Liner is sailing. You can't really turn it around. And
I think Francis is focus on allowing gay people to
be blessed by Catholic priests, in trying to bring women
into more leadership positions within the Vatican, not necessarily priests,

(15:44):
but trying to bring them into leadership positions, and also
trying to sort of open up this very, very stodgy institution.
I think those kinds of things are going to last
and will be his legacy.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
I agree with you, Mike. Thanks for your insight.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Mike Kelly is an award winning columnist for North Jersey
dot Com and The Record. Really fascinating stuff. Thanks a lot, Mike,
Take care, Larry by back Now Let's get the news
at seven point thirty with Jaqueline Carl Jackelin.

Speaker 9 (16:12):
Good morning. Pope Francis has died at the age of
eighty eight. The Vatican announced he passed away earlier today,
about a month after leaving a hospital in Rome where
he was being treated for various respiratory ailments. And Jury
selection continues today in Lower Manhattan for the sex crimes
retrial for Harvey Weinstein.

Speaker 10 (16:31):
So far, nine of twelve jurors have been picked. Six
alternates still have to be chosen as well. Meanwhile, a
judge last week did honor the former Hollywood producer's request
to move out of the Rikers Island jail complex and
into a hospital because of Weinstein's health issues. Weinstein is
facing one count of rape two counts of criminal sexual
acts connected to three alleged incidents. Weinstein's previous conviction was

(16:53):
tossed due to errors in how the witness process was handled.
I'm Scott Pringle WRDWS.

Speaker 9 (16:58):
So has anyone ever heard of the term hat fishing?

Speaker 1 (17:02):
No? All right, so?

Speaker 9 (17:03):
According to the Huffington Post, insecurities, judgment and superficial left
swiping have for some men on dating apps to resort
to what's now being called hat fishing. Guys are posting
pics of themselves and hats and hoodies to avoid calling
attention to their thinning hair lines or straight up baldness. Yeah,
in some cases they'll even go on a few dates
without ever taking that hat off, and then spoil their

(17:26):
ruse so that they feel like once they had the
lady on the hook, maybe then she'll she'll forgive them. Unfortunately,
thinning and receding hair is a fact of life. Dating
experts say guy's best play is to be who you are, unapologetically.
It might take a little longer to hit a match,
but at least you won't get called out for hat
fishing later on when the big reveal happens. What do

(17:48):
you think of that?

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Just be who you are.

Speaker 9 (17:51):
It's okay, it's hard. Most we all don't put that.
We talked about this about the updating your profile picture.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
I mean, we all.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Understand what happens to the human body.

Speaker 9 (18:02):
Like people lose their hair, men lose their hair.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
It's okay, which is why you need to get married early, right,
but solve all probably.

Speaker 9 (18:11):
How many women really would say I'm not going to
date a guy because his hair is thinning.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh they're out there.

Speaker 9 (18:18):
They swipe left.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, there you go, Yeah they're out there.

Speaker 8 (18:22):
There are Yeah.

Speaker 9 (18:23):
It means like and there's a lot of men who
wouldn't date a woman whose hair is thinning. I mean,
it's just the way of the world. But it's unfortunate
because you might really like the person.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, especially because it's so superficial. At first, you're looking
at a picture, you're basing everything. I know there's some
details there, but you're basing everything in a picture. So
that's the nature of those apps it is. Thank you
very much, Jacqueline Carl. What do you think? What do
you think about Steven A. Smith for president? It may happen,
at least he may run. We'll find out what the

(18:53):
legendary water Wolf thinks about it. Next, and world renowned
illusion endurance artist and master of the impossible, David Blaine
sits down for a deep and insightful conversation that goes
far beyond magic. Open the free iHeartRadio app and search
for on Purpose with Jay Shehtty and listen as David

(19:18):
Blaine reveals how he prepares for the extreme feats that
defy human experiences. Now there's something that used to happen
all the time in Major League Baseball, every night, every week,
and now it's a miracle if it happens. And guess
what that miracles happened. Here's the legendary sportscaster water Wolf,

(19:40):
a water.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
That I'm trying. I'm trying.

Speaker 8 (19:51):
It's nice to have you sitting in for Ken Rosero.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Oh yeah, well we'll be back again next week.

Speaker 10 (19:58):
You're not taking up that soon?

Speaker 8 (20:02):
Well, yeah, stop the music. Last week, the Padre's Michael
King used to pitch for the Yankees. Actually pitched a
nine inning complete game, whoa shutting out the Rocky six nothing,
nine full innings, two hits, one hundred and ten pitches,
and his arm did not fall off and he didn't
miss his next turn. Wow, all right, here was the

(20:26):
jerk of the week, John Morant of the Memphis Grizzlies.
He was already fine and suspended last year pretending shooting
a gun after taking fake three pointers. Last week, pretended
to pull a pin and tossing a hand grenade during

(20:46):
the Grizzlies lost to Minnesota. Man, that's a great example
full of kids, huh, And was no punishment by Adam
Silver morand is now playing in the playoffs. He was
only one for six yesterday.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
That career, That career is going to end badly, don't
you think.

Speaker 8 (21:08):
Yes, I would think so. He was one for six
on three pointers and yesterday's fifty one point loss to
Oklahoma City. You know what they ought to do. They
ought to put him in the army and see what
it's really like to shoot a gun and throw a
live hand grenade. That would help him. He according to

(21:29):
ESPN host Stephen A. Smith, if the Democrats can't find
anyone more qualified, they have asked him to run for
president in twenty twenty eight. Who would be his running mate?
Mad Dog brusso.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
That entertaining I'd.

Speaker 8 (21:55):
Have ball will travel of the week. Quarterback TJ. Finn,
who was supposed to start for Tulane this coming season,
was suspended indefinitely after being arrested and charged with driving
a stolen pickup truck and possession of twenty five thousand
dollars worth of stolen goods. The twenty three year old

(22:17):
Finley claims he was duped by an online scam. The
guy who's played quarterback for Western Kentucky, LSU, Auburn, Texas State,
and now Tulane have ball will travel in their oh Man.

(22:38):
All right, it's time now for this week's three stooges Okay.
Stage Number one. Harvard University upset at President Trump's freezing
over two billion dollars in federal grants and also threatening
for Harvard to lose their tax exempt status. Well, isn't
that too bad? Maybe if Harvard hadn't been found guilty

(23:01):
of anti semitism, which is the same thing as racism,
and your president having to resign and disgrace. You wouldn't
have these problems. Bozo's all right. Stooge Number two the
Mets New York Mets seven hundred and sixty five million
dollar man One Soto, with only one home run in

(23:24):
the mets first fifteen games, said it was because he
didn't have the best hitter in baseball like he had
last year hitting behind him. That was Aaron Judge. Hey,
Peter Alonso is hitting behind you. He's now hitting three
forty six. He's tied for first in the National League

(23:44):
in home runs, and he's first in RBI's So just
shut up and stop making excuses for yourself and earn
your money. Oh man, what a stooge and stuuge. Number three.
I thought I'd lay off this, but New York Times
writer Brett Stevens, whose headline said, A tough but sensible

(24:08):
way to solve the Iran problem is an olive branch. Yeah,
give an olive branch to the number one terrorist group
in the world. Obama and John Kerry gave Iran an
olive branch of one point seven billion dollars in cash.
How did that work out?

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (24:28):
I love that last one. I love I love the
Iranian one that you're absolutely right. They use that to
fund October seventh. That's what happened. To answer your question.

Speaker 8 (24:37):
That's right. People say, oh, no, they used it for
museums and things like that. Yeah, but that enabled them
to pay that off and then they have the free money.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (24:47):
I mean that's pretty clear.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
And they're building a weapon.

Speaker 8 (24:50):
Yes. This day in sports forty five years ago today,
April twenty first, nineteen eighty at the Boston Marathon, twenty
six six year old Rosie Ruiz jumped out from the
crowd with a mile left to go in the race
and came in first. Officials became suspicious when Ruiz was

(25:14):
not tired after supposedly running for twenty six point two
miles on a warm, sunny day, and her time would
have been the third fastest time ever recorded by a woman.
One week later, Rui's scam was exposed in and the

(25:36):
second place winner was declared the winner. But the thing
is to even qualify for the Boston Marathon, Ruiz used
the New York Subway in nineteen seventy nine to increase
your chances. I mean you remember that.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
No, I didn't know the second part of that story
that was the first time I heard that. I remember
the story. I'm actually I love the story at the time.
I love that you got caught, but the fact that
she did it was, you know, was fascinating.

Speaker 8 (26:10):
Oh fuss, Hey, I've got the time for two movie reviews.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Sure you do, go ahead.

Speaker 8 (26:17):
Okay. First of all, on Netflix, there is a terrific movie.
It's called Number. That's Number twenty four. It's the true
story of the Norwegian Resistance during World War Two. It's
well done in detail and what it was like to

(26:38):
be a resistance member. That's Number twenty four. But on
Amazon Prime Reacher. Now, the first seven episodes of Reacher
were terrific, even my wife watched. But the eighth and
final episode, it was like a new writer, a new

(27:00):
director took over and they had a fight scene between
Reacher and the Killer which lasted ten minutes so unrealistic.
Both guys would have had broken bones, bashed in, heads, drowned,
but they both survived the fight. It killed the whole thing,

(27:21):
you know it bumps up. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
I'm a huge Reacher fan. I've loved both seasons and
of those type of movies. And do you realize until
you just said that I didn't even know that it
was ten minutes long, and that unrealistic because I give
up to those movies, you know what I mean. I
know it's all unrealistic, so it doesn't ruin it for me.

Speaker 8 (27:42):
Well, the first seven you say, well, that's that's reality.
It could happen. But the eighth episode, oh, come on,
get out, that's a boo of the week there.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Water Wolf. Thank you so much, wonder of course, we'll
be back next week. Can't wait to talk to you again.
We will kill all right, see you later. We will
continue the conversation about the passing of Pope Francis with
WR correspondent Rory O'Neill. Next well, we continue our coverage
of the passing of Pope Francis at the age of
eighty eight with WR correspondent Rory O'Neill.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Good morning, Rory Larry, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
And I guess now everybody has a decent idea of
what happens next, only because of the popularity of the
movie Conclave, right.

Speaker 11 (28:33):
I just hope the ending man don't get me going
on the end of that movie.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, and you.

Speaker 11 (28:40):
Know, sadly, Pope Francis was able to plan out a
lot of the next steps when it comes to his
specific funeral. But the College of Cardinals is about to
take over and then decide exactly how to move forward
with that conclave, what the timing will be, and then
start that process. We expect probably they'll start to assemble
maybe two weeks two and a half weeks from now,

(29:03):
in order to begin that process. But the funeral probably
isn't for another four or five days.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
That's fascinating. I had not heard that that he planned
out his own funeral. Do we know what he has planned?

Speaker 11 (29:16):
Well, we know he made requests things like he wants
to be buried in a simple, plain wooden coffin. He
doesn't want anything elaborate. He's also not going to be
buried at Saint Peter's Basilica.

Speaker 7 (29:27):
He made that clear.

Speaker 11 (29:27):
He's going to be buried at the Saint Mary Major Basilica,
also there in Rome. But obviously that's breaking from tradition.
Most popes are buried there in the grottos of Saint Peter's.
So this church that he has chosen to be buried in,
it's been very special to him for a long time.
There's a painting of the Virgin Mary in there that

(29:48):
he says it was very important to him, and it
was the church. Actually, he would visit every time he
returned to Vatican City after an overseas trip. And it's
the first place he stopped when he left the hospital.
You might remember he was being driven out of the hospital.
His car stopped by that church. He didn't get out,

(30:09):
but that's where he stopped by on his way back
to the Vatican. So again just shows you how important
that location is to him.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, are there rules for things like this? I mean,
can a pope make specific recommendations and break tradition?

Speaker 8 (30:25):
Well?

Speaker 11 (30:26):
I think there are. Obviously you can't change the order
of the Mass or something like that, but you can
say what songs you would want perform, maybe what specific
readings you would like to have read during the services.
So you can make those kinds of choices. And you know, look,
this has been a pope of firsts, right, He's the
first pope from South America, the first pope that wasn't

(30:47):
in Europe, I think in something like thirteen hundred years,
first pope to be named Francis, you know, the first
Argentinian to become pope.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
So I mean all.

Speaker 11 (30:56):
These different first here. Obviously, as the leader of the church,
the pope has a lot of leeway though in however
they decide to have their final arrangements.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
And he was extremely poor growing up in Argentina, so
it makes sense he always talks about the poor. He
always talks especially about children and poor children, because he
grew up poor. So this makes a lot of sense.
From those humble beginnings, he choosing a wooden box goes
along with the rest of his life.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Well, right.

Speaker 11 (31:26):
And he lived in a smaller apartment that was available
to him at the Vatican. You know, he didn't take
the big trappings of the office, at least he felt
guilty every time that he did.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
They say that he didn't.

Speaker 11 (31:38):
Like all the fancy clothes that he wore, and sort
of that wet with the job, but understood that a
lot of those symbols are important for the faithful in
order to see that in the leader of the Catholic Church.
So yeah, complicated, complicated guy, But I suppose most popes are.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Right now, you said the funeral won't happen for another
four or five days. What about the conclave obviously happens.
Does it happen immediately after that?

Speaker 11 (32:05):
No, so that's going to be about historically, it's about
fifteen to twenty days out somewhere in there after the
death of the pope, and then the cardinals will then
of course be sequestered. For the decision making about how
to select a new pope. You need two thirds of
the votes plus one. I think there are what two
hundred and fifty two Catholic cardinals, but fewer than half

(32:26):
are actually able to vote because you if you're over
the age of eighty, you can't vote for the next pope.
So one hundred and thirty eight will be eligible to
vote for Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Well, now, the next time we talk to you, we'll
talk about the ending of conclave, because I want to
hear the angry Rory. Not the day for that, No,
not today, Thanks so much. Rory O'Neil WLR National correspondent
New York City Council president and mayoral candidate Adrian Adams.
Did she funnel taxpayers money to her church? The New

(32:58):
York Post broke the story, Slory. We'll talk with the
investigative reporter who broke it, Will Bredderman, about his exclusive
right after the eight o'clock news.

Speaker 9 (33:07):
Well, hardship and unable to pay their back taxes.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Qualifying and enrolling in this