Jeffrey Konvitz New York Times Best Selling Author of "The Circus Of Satin" Interview

Jeffrey has a book out that highlights America's long history of immigration gangs, made up of different ethnic backgrounds. Jeff explains the book to Larry. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, we talk about them in the news all of
the time. As a matter of fact, sometimes they dominate
the news. MS thirteen, trend Day Aragua, Diablo forty seven,
the trend day Aragua Wanna Bees that were just terrorizing
Times Square there for a while. But I think we
forget that these immigrant gangs have been part of the
American story now for decades, centuries, since the beginning of America,

(00:24):
there have been immigrant gangs. Just think back and you'll
think of several. Well, as a matter of fact, you
don't really have to because we have Jeffrey Convits here,
who is the best selling author. He has a new
book out called The Circus of Satan. Thanks so much,
Jeffrey for reminding us all of this and putting this

(00:44):
in your book. Yeah, the immigrant gangs have been around
well since the beginning of the country. Am I going
back too far?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
No, especially in the late eighteen eighties. It's an era
that most people don't know much about. Let me help
set the frame of reference. Sure, it was a movie
called Gangs in New York with Leonardo DiCaprio in the
about the eighteen sixties, about the Irish, and then then

(01:13):
there was a gigantic mini series called Gangs in New York,
which like Gangs in New York botok Empire. This is
the Middle Period and basically, from eighteen ninety eight to
nineteen thirteen, the Irish Mob controlled the entire country and
every major city, and they controlled the police departments, which
were corrupt in every major city. And the police departments

(01:35):
controlled all crimes, They collected all the graft they always
saw prostitution, gambling, drugs, and the Irish Mob controlled through
the vote. They controlled the vote of the immigrant gangs
that learned the Jews, the Italians, and even the Irish.
It's a period that no one really knows about. And

(01:57):
in nineteen thirteen it all crashed, and out of that
came Jewish organized crime and labor racketeering, and then in
the nineteen twenties bootlegging with the Jewish organized crime and
Italian organized crime. And everyone knows what came later. But
it's this middle period that no one knows about, probably
the most violent period in American history. And it was

(02:21):
let out of New York through Tammany.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Hall, right, and then you all be what you're getting at.
Next would be the Italian the mob, the Italian immigrant
gangs as well. They you know that we've seen we
saw play out in The Godfather. It's amazing to me
that all of the things you've talked about we have
been fascinated by for so long. I mean, as you said,

(02:43):
huge movies, big books have been written on these immigrant gangs.
So is it true that we hate them at the
time it's happening, but in looking back we romanticize them.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, we got I got two comments about that. They
take the gangs that existed from nineteen hundred to nineteen thirteen,
whether they were the Irish Mob, the first of the
Jewish gangs, the Great Gangs, the Monk Eastman and the
Bowery of nineteen hundred, the Italian gangs in Little Italy,

(03:18):
and I'm focusing on New York right now. No matter
how awful and violent these people were, they all wanted
to be Americans. The trend de Agua Ms. Thirteen. They
don't want to be Americans. They want to use America.
They want to use American freedoms for their crimes. It's
a big difference. All these people back in nineteen hundred

(03:40):
to nineteen thirteen all considered themselves Americans. They wanted to
be Americans. So it's different.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, does that make them the current gangs more dangerous
because they don't want to be Americans.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
In a way, because the gangs then did have some
altruistic elements to them. For example, Big Jack Zelig in
the Bowery was like robins Hoood. He protected his own people.
He fought with the Chinese gangs, he fought with the
Italian gangs, but when it came to Jewish gangs, he extorted.

(04:18):
He extorted them, but he protected them. So it was
slightly different. Today it's a free for all. It's it's
totally different. And in fact, organized crime today is more
like medicare fraud, an SBA fraud. Back then, prostitution, gambling, drugs,
controlling the vote, police corruption. It was. It was very different,

(04:43):
but it's an era that most people don't know. You
read this book, it's not only is it. I believe
a great fictional story about how it bled, how my
fictional characters bled through a whole bunch of real events
and real characters. But you learn a lot of Hit
three here. It is you what went on that led

(05:04):
to what we know, most of us know is organized
crime today.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
You know there's this famous story that they're out of
Philadelphia with the old Frank Rizzo, the mayor that apparently
said to Angelo Bruno, who ran the mob in Philadelphia,
I don't care how many people you kill, just bury
the bodies in Camden. And it showed how much the
politicians were connected, and also really the respect that the

(05:29):
mob had for the civilians. They fought each other. They
didn't want civilian deaths. That's not these people, That's not
what we're dealing with.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Now.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
There was a code, wasn't there in the past.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, Larry, let me tell you this. I mean, the
first time I've even mentioned this on my book tour
and about the book. I grew up in New York.
I'm very well aware of WR I went to college
at Cornell, I went to law school at Columbia. I'm
a New Yorker, even though I live in Los Angeles now.
And at my by Mitza, half of organized crime was

(06:05):
sitting in the back of the room because my father
was a fundraiser and he worked with all the unions
to raise money for his charities. And they were all
controlled by gangsters, but they were very altruistic too. They
all wanted to be Americans totally different.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, that's a great story. And thanks and welcome back
to New York, even if it's on the radio, and
welcome back to w o R. Thank you so much, sir.
Your book sounds fascinating. Jeffrey Condits is the New York
Times bestseller. His book is The Circus of Satan. It
is a book for the Times. Thanks so much, sir,
appreciate you talking to you.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
You gotta thank you.