December 3, 2025 • 7 mins
Jeffrey Lichtman joins Mendte in the Morning to talk about the pre-trial hearing of Luigi Mangione and the status of the case against him.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now let's get to Jeffrey Lickman, high profile criminal defense attorney,
host of Beyond the Legal Limit podcast found on the
iHeartRadio app. Jeffrey, you know, I look at sound every
day for the show, and I'm going through things, and
I look at one cut and it was you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The only victories you know that I see as a
defense lawyers, when a jury stands up and says not guilty,
I think anything short of that is it's sort of
a wash.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I didn't even know about the story about l Chappo
Junior taking a plea deal. Can you tell us what happened?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, he took a plea the other day. I'm in
Chicago actually right now. Still, the plea was taken here
in federal court, and his case now went from a
mandatory life if he's convicted to now he's got a
ten year minimum, which is what I'm hoping to get
when we finally get two sentencings. So I think the
(00:55):
main point is he's cooperating with the government. But I
think the main victory was getting the government to accept
him as a cooperator. As you can imagine, that wasn't
an easy cell.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
No, I can't imagine you were involved in that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, Larry, I'm not sure if you I'm his lawyer,
so I suppose, yes, yes I am. I amn't technically
I am involved.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
That was my way of getting to you to tell
me what was going on, what happened in all that.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, so it was it's actually a second son that's
played guilty. I represent all four of his sons and
the father and the wife. Yeah, so it's it's like
a family business for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You said that they were skeptical during the talks that
he would actually provide good information.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, I mean I think that the harder cell was
how do you convince the federal government to let people
that high up in the hierarchy be permitted to cooperate
instead of just dying in prison as they insisted that
his father go to trial, and that's exactly what's going
to happen to him. So you know, the government this
(02:08):
is These are kind of odd times, Larry. You know,
you've got, as you've mentioned before, as I was on hold,
you've got boats being blown up in the water that
are coming from Venezuela purportedly with drugs loaded on them.
And then the next day you've got the Hunduran former
president who was convicted of being a massive drug dealer
and getting a forty year sentence. He's pardoned by President Trump.
(02:31):
So it's these are confusing times, is what I'll say
in terms of what the government's thinking.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
No, I think you're right. I think there's politics that
plays a lot in all of this. But I think
you would have agree that the military pressure to get
Maduro out of office will be good for the world.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Not even a question. I agree with you one hundred percent.
The guy's a maniac, and Trump is certainly applying the
pressure there. I agree with him.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Let's talk about Luigi Mangioni a little bit. They're going
through evidence hearings right now, and what they're trying to
get thrown out is what happened at a McDonald's and Altuna, Pennsylvania,
when the police first were able to get a hold
of Mangione and they had a conversation with him. While
they were trying to he gave a fake ID and
(03:21):
they were trying to substantiate the fake ID, and while
they were doing that, they were talking to him and
getting information, and then at one point, when they realized
it was him, they took his bag and they went
through it. They're they're arguing that since the Miranda rights
were not read and since there was no warrant, all
of that should be thrown out. Is there any chance
(03:42):
that that gets thrown out.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think there's a chance. I mean, I don't think
it was the best search happens in nearly every case
where law enforcement does not read Miranda you see it
on TV. In real life, it never happens. Once he's
in custody. They have to read them Miranda rights before
they question him. Now they're going to say, well, we
(04:05):
cornered him, but he was permitted to leave. We were
asking these questions. What they were doing is they were
questioning him. They should have read him the rights immediately
once they refused to let him leave. I suspect if
Luigi wanted to stand up at that point, when they
knew that it was him and they were questioning him,
there's no question in my mind that they would have
stopped him from leaving. So the search, all the answers
(04:28):
that he gave after that without reading Miranda should be suppressed.
And that all led to the arrest, which led to
them seizing the bag which had the gun and the
cash and you know, the writings and all the other
stuff all in there, so that was that should also
be suppressed. In practice, it's a long shot. Although I
(04:48):
do think that the law is on the defense side.
It doesn't mean that Luigi's going to be acquitted. There's
certainly plenty of other evidence, you know, DNA evidence, etc. Etc.
That put him at the scene with the gun in
his hand shooting the insurance CEO. But the fact that
the government, the state is putting on a hearing that's
(05:10):
with like dozens of witnesses that are going to last, like,
you know, multiple weeks, does suggest to me that they're
a little bit nervous.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
They're a little bit nervous because this might get thrown out.
Is that why they're a little bit nervous?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I think so. I mean, but there's also a federal
death penalty case. You know, I don't know it's ever
going to get anywhere near death penalty. It's not. But
there's no way. Here's the bottom line, Larry, for your listeners,
there's no way Luigi is getting out of this without
spending the rest of his natural life in jail. That's
my prediction.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
No, I think everybody's there and I think they only
concern is the same one that you just mentioned a
moment ago, is that every time you hear about evidence,
every time you hear about the case, every time you
hear about the money put into it, you think, well,
wait a second, what's going on? You know, even you
said a moment ago, there's a chance this gets thrown out.
(06:03):
But there is so much writing on this, and it
seems so obvious, and in the court of public opinion,
he's already been convicted, and because everybody has seen him.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But point that's that's the point that you make is
that let's say they throw out his statements, let's say
they throw out the contents of the backpack. Is there
a single person on the planet and especially on the
future jury that doesn't know about all the things in
the backpack and all of his statements. Absolutely not right.
(06:35):
So I think he's getting convicted either way, and if not, listen,
he's getting convicted in federal court one way or another.
As I said, he's not getting out of this.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Jeffrey Lickman, high profile criminal defense attorney, is with us
every Wednesday at seven oh five. Thanks a lot, Jeffrey,
good talking to you. Yeah, that would be fascinating if
this evidence was thrown out, because then all of a sudden,
people would be going, oh my god, is he going
to get off? But there's so much else. There's somebody else,
including video, including other statements he made, including but what
(07:05):
happens if that manifesto gets thrown out?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Wow,
Now let's get to Jeffrey Lickman, high profile criminal defense attorney,
host of Beyond the Legal Limit podcast found on the
iHeartRadio app. Jeffrey, you know, I look at sound every
day for the show, and I'm going through things, and
I look at one cut and it was you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The only victories you know that I see as a
defense lawyers, when a jury stands up and says not guilty,
I think anything short of that is it's sort of
a wash.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I didn't even know about the story about l Chappo
Junior taking a plea deal. Can you tell us what happened?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, he took a plea the other day. I'm in
Chicago actually right now. Still, the plea was taken here
in federal court, and his case now went from a
mandatory life if he's convicted to now he's got a
ten year minimum, which is what I'm hoping to get
when we finally get two sentencings. So I think the
(00:55):
main point is he's cooperating with the government. But I
think the main victory was getting the government to accept
him as a cooperator. As you can imagine, that wasn't
an easy cell.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
No, I can't imagine you were involved in that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, Larry, I'm not sure if you I'm his lawyer,
so I suppose, yes, yes I am. I amn't technically
I am involved.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
That was my way of getting to you to tell
me what was going on, what happened in all that.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, so it was it's actually a second son that's
played guilty. I represent all four of his sons and
the father and the wife. Yeah, so it's it's like
a family business for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You said that they were skeptical during the talks that
he would actually provide good information.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, I mean I think that the harder cell was
how do you convince the federal government to let people
that high up in the hierarchy be permitted to cooperate
instead of just dying in prison as they insisted that
his father go to trial, and that's exactly what's going
to happen to him. So you know, the government this
(02:08):
is These are kind of odd times, Larry. You know,
you've got, as you've mentioned before, as I was on hold,
you've got boats being blown up in the water that
are coming from Venezuela purportedly with drugs loaded on them.
And then the next day you've got the Hunduran former
president who was convicted of being a massive drug dealer
and getting a forty year sentence. He's pardoned by President Trump.
(02:31):
So it's these are confusing times, is what I'll say
in terms of what the government's thinking.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
No, I think you're right. I think there's politics that
plays a lot in all of this. But I think
you would have agree that the military pressure to get
Maduro out of office will be good for the world.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Not even a question. I agree with you one hundred percent.
The guy's a maniac, and Trump is certainly applying the
pressure there. I agree with him.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Let's talk about Luigi Mangioni a little bit. They're going
through evidence hearings right now, and what they're trying to
get thrown out is what happened at a McDonald's and Altuna, Pennsylvania,
when the police first were able to get a hold
of Mangione and they had a conversation with him. While
they were trying to he gave a fake ID and
(03:21):
they were trying to substantiate the fake ID, and while
they were doing that, they were talking to him and
getting information, and then at one point, when they realized
it was him, they took his bag and they went
through it. They're they're arguing that since the Miranda rights
were not read and since there was no warrant, all
of that should be thrown out. Is there any chance
(03:42):
that that gets thrown out.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think there's a chance. I mean, I don't think
it was the best search happens in nearly every case
where law enforcement does not read Miranda you see it
on TV. In real life, it never happens. Once he's
in custody. They have to read them Miranda rights before
they question him. Now they're going to say, well, we
(04:05):
cornered him, but he was permitted to leave. We were
asking these questions. What they were doing is they were
questioning him. They should have read him the rights immediately
once they refused to let him leave. I suspect if
Luigi wanted to stand up at that point, when they
knew that it was him and they were questioning him,
there's no question in my mind that they would have
stopped him from leaving. So the search, all the answers
(04:28):
that he gave after that without reading Miranda should be suppressed.
And that all led to the arrest, which led to
them seizing the bag which had the gun and the
cash and you know, the writings and all the other
stuff all in there, so that was that should also
be suppressed. In practice, it's a long shot. Although I
(04:48):
do think that the law is on the defense side.
It doesn't mean that Luigi's going to be acquitted. There's
certainly plenty of other evidence, you know, DNA evidence, etc. Etc.
That put him at the scene with the gun in
his hand shooting the insurance CEO. But the fact that
the government, the state is putting on a hearing that's
(05:10):
with like dozens of witnesses that are going to last, like,
you know, multiple weeks, does suggest to me that they're
a little bit nervous.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
They're a little bit nervous because this might get thrown out.
Is that why they're a little bit nervous?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I think so. I mean, but there's also a federal
death penalty case. You know, I don't know it's ever
going to get anywhere near death penalty. It's not. But
there's no way. Here's the bottom line, Larry, for your listeners,
there's no way Luigi is getting out of this without
spending the rest of his natural life in jail. That's
my prediction.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
No, I think everybody's there and I think they only
concern is the same one that you just mentioned a
moment ago, is that every time you hear about evidence,
every time you hear about the case, every time you
hear about the money put into it, you think, well,
wait a second, what's going on? You know, even you
said a moment ago, there's a chance this gets thrown out.
(06:03):
But there is so much writing on this, and it
seems so obvious, and in the court of public opinion,
he's already been convicted, and because everybody has seen him.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But point that's that's the point that you make is
that let's say they throw out his statements, let's say
they throw out the contents of the backpack. Is there
a single person on the planet and especially on the
future jury that doesn't know about all the things in
the backpack and all of his statements. Absolutely not right.
(06:35):
So I think he's getting convicted either way, and if not, listen,
he's getting convicted in federal court one way or another.
As I said, he's not getting out of this.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Jeffrey Lickman, high profile criminal defense attorney, is with us
every Wednesday at seven oh five. Thanks a lot, Jeffrey,
good talking to you. Yeah, that would be fascinating if
this evidence was thrown out, because then all of a sudden,
people would be going, oh my god, is he going
to get off? But there's so much else. There's somebody else,
including video, including other statements he made, including but what
(07:05):
happens if that manifesto gets thrown out?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Wow,
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