Jim Ryan, ABC News correspondent Interview

Jim Ryan speaks with Mendte in the Morning about the death of Pope Francis on Easter Monday.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now let's talk more about the life and legacy of
Pope Francis with Jim Ryan, who was the ABC News
correspondent in Dallas. Jim, as I said at the top
of the of the hour, it was still shocking. I
think we all saw it coming, but it was still surprising.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, you're right, yeah, I think it was shocking. I
started getting emails this morning and stand by for a
message from the Vatican, And you're right. Should it have
been surprising? Maybe not eighty eight years old guy who's
been in the hospital recently double pneumonia if the Vatican
said he was near death five times during his time
in the hospital. And yet I think a lot of

(00:40):
people were surprised, Larry, to see the Pope there on
the balcony at the Vatican yesterday and delivering a brief
Easter message. People were surprised at that it had made
enough of a comeback. Not only had he been released
from the hospital, but was participating in those ceremonies at
the Vatican yesterday. Most of the message was given by others,
but he did have personal messages as a part of that.

(01:04):
So you're right, I think it was surprising this morning,
shocking to see that the pope had died.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, you know what, that's a great point, Jim. And
that's probably why it was surprising because we saw him
with JD. Vance, We saw him at Saint Peter's Basilica,
so we thought, oh, he's doing okay right now, and
then there you go the next day and he's gone.
But he did hold out for Easter. What is his legacy,
what does he leave behind?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, I think a leftward move of the church, right,
I think that's kind of undeniable. From the very start,
he embraced the people he considered the disenfranchised, the refugees,
the migrants of the world, even asked about a pope
who was gay, saying that that's not him to judge,
and so reaching out sort of to the LGBTQ plus

(01:53):
community and shunning the rich and powerful of the world.
And yeah, he did have some scuffles with more traditionalists
within the church. So I think that's kind of his legacy,
is that he moved the church a little to the left,
or attempted to. Now, does that mean that there are
more Catholics today than there were twelve years ago when

(02:14):
he came in. It's hard to say. We won't know
that for some time. One point four billion people around
the world our adherents of Catholicism, and whether there's a
net gain or a net loss of Catholics because of
his policies, we probably won't know for some time.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
You know, you can understand why he had such an
empathy for the poor, and such an empathy especially for
poor children, calling them the pilgrims of hope at one point,
because he grew up poor. He grew up in poverty
in Argentina.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
He did, and he was the first He was a
janitor going into the priesthood, and he was the first
Latin American pope. He was the first Jesuit pope. You know,
the church has shifted dramatically in the last hundred years
or so, and we'll see where it goes next. Could
there be an African pope? Could there be an Asian pope?

(03:09):
You know, I think almost anything is on the table
at this point. There was a great movie, Larry. I
don't know if you saw this last year or maybe
earlier this year, the Conclave. It's a fiction, of course,
but it really offers a fascinating look at this process
of choosing popes and after this nine day period of morning,
popes or bishops from around the world, cardinals from seventy

(03:31):
countries will head to Rome. They'll sit down as the
College of Cardinals and begin this process, this fascinating and
this traditional and secret process of choosing popes.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Right, I think a lot of people saw the Conclave
and a lot more people are going to watch it
now because it's I'm sure it's going to be thrust
into the forefront and all the streaming services. But you're right,
it was a wonderful movie. It was It was up
for the Best Movie, it was up for an Academy Award,
and Ray Fines was incredible in it was up for
Best Actors. So I think everybody should watch that to

(04:03):
understand what's going to happen now in the coming weeks.
But this isn't going to happen right away. When do
they start the conclave?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, I don't think there's a firm date set for
that yet. Are there are a little pieces? I mean,
every detail now is being released. The moving of the
body into the coffin that was put out by the
Vatican here a short time ago, the bringing of the
family members out to the Vatican. So there are small
pieces that are that are will take place over the

(04:35):
next nine days of morning, and at that point then
I think we'll know more firmly when the College of
Cardinals will actually convene.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
You were talking a moment ago that the number of
Catholics in the world, and the number of Catholics by percentage,
is going up in some segments of the world. It's
going up in South America, it's going up in Africa,
and that now seems to be the stronghold of the
Catholic Church always. Yeah, but America, even though there's more
Catholics than there were, the percentage of Catholics has gone down.

(05:08):
And you mentioned a moment ago about getting having an
American pope. I think it would be a smart thing
for the Vatican to do. I'm not sure they're ready
for that, but it would be a smart thing for
the Conclave to do, because they need something like that
in America to bring Catholics back.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Well. Sure, yeah, I mean there are lots and lots
of choices for people who are seeking faith in this
country and the traditional churches, the Catholic Church and some
of the southern churches, but you've got mega churches, you know,
that are opening up and thriving around the country while
people are walking away from the Catholic Church. So, yes,

(05:46):
the Latin American Pope Francis may have been a harbinger
of a pope coming from North America, maybe even the
United States. It'd be interesting to see what happens.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, they lost a lot of Catholics during the priest
abuse scandal, and this pope took that on head on.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
He did, and he bungled at least one of the cases,
and that was frustrating for a lot of folks within
the church. But certainly that was something he was willing
to address. Pope John Paul was likewise willing to talk
about the scars of the Catholic Church. But so that's
far from over at this point.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
We're going to hear a lot more about him over
the next few days. There's going to be a lot
of ceremonies, and we hope to talk to you again.
Jim Ryan, thanks a lot for your time this morning.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Thanks Lorry, see you, ABC.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Correspondent, Jim Ryan. Yeah, there's going to be so much
about Pope John the Pope John Paul almost said, Pope Francis.
Over the next few days his life, You're going to
be hearing all lots about him, but the conclave is
going to be the most important thing that happens. When

(06:53):
the conclave happens, who the next Pope is, As Jim
Ryan talked about a moment ago, he was, Pope Francis
was extremely progressive, and the Catholic Church is not progressive,
never has been. It's steeped in history and it's steeped
in conservative values. So it's going to be a fascinating

(07:14):
political battle inside the Catholic Church as to who replaces
Pope Francis. And if I were to have a gut
reaction right now, I think they're going to try to
pull the church back to its conservative values, and I
think they're going to try to have another Italian Pope