Making “COACH PHILLIPS”

A conversation with documentary cinematographer and producer Mark Burns.

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Hi everyone, I'm Katie r Hi'sSheriff Ryar and this is My Heart of
Texas. One year ago we knockedon the door. Next year we beat
on the door. Next year we'regonna kick this on the end. It

(00:39):
was love you Blue and so muchmore and as soon to be released documentary,
we'll focus so much more on this, so much more. I think
what makes me the most proud isjust, you know, remembering being on
the field in those back in thosedays in the late seventies, and just
thinking back to those memories of beingthere and the feel of the astronom then
and the you know, the soundof it, and the excitement and the

(01:02):
love you Blue banners everybody had,and just to be a photographer, a
young photographer at that time, onthe field doing what I was doing at
that time, which was still sportsphotography, and then now being able to
have this opportunity to create a documentaryfilm that in large part goes back to
that man that was kind of atthe center of that bump Phillips, this

(01:25):
larger than life figure. When welast spoke with noted landscape photographer Mark Burns
on My Heart of Texas, hecould only hint at his next career leap,
so we hear this time about hisrole in the making of Coach Phillips.
When we left you last here onour My Heart of Texas podcast,

(01:47):
you were starting a brand new endeavor. You were getting ready to start your
role in documentary filmmaking, and thedebut is about to happen, and it's
all about someone you knew and weall all love, Coach bumb Phillips.
Tell us about the making of thedocumentary and the role you've played in it.
It should be released here coming upin about two months probably. I

(02:10):
was the creative producer, the director, and the cinematographer basically for it,
although I also did a lot ofother little things connected to it. But
it's something that's been in the worksnow for about a year and a half
and it's been a great project forme to work on and really have learned
a lot about the documentary filmmaking process, obviously when you dive into it like

(02:30):
that. But we first announced itto the media, I guess on what
would have been the one hundred yearbirthday week of bum Phillips. We had
a celebration at the manor house atthe Ustonian and invited a bunch of the
old Love You Blue players and RobertBrazil, Dan Pastorini, Billy White Shoes,
Johnson, Mike Barbera, some ofthose guys that all showed up,
and Wade and Laurie Phillips were thereas well as a number of the other

(02:52):
Phillips family that came. So thatwas really the first announcement of it to
the media. We had several ofthe TV stations that came and films with
Wade and some of the other playersthat were there. I say that because
it was the first time that wewere really able to talk about it was
that day, in that event,and it was a special day for me
to see the you know, theinterest in it, I guess from the

(03:12):
media and from the people that showedup to be there for it. So
that was very rewarding for me.But as a new uh, I guess
endeavor, Wow, it's just beenquite a ride to go from I kind
of call it now the simple solitudeof landscape photography to the multi collaborative filmmaking
industry, which is certainly it's justcompletely different animal, you know than the

(03:36):
type of landscape photography I was doing, or most other kinds of photography that
I've done in the past because there'sso much a solo thing versus the filmmaking
being such a collaborative thing. Soit's really been interesting for me. And
you know something I've really come toappreciate about it, maybe, yeah,
what we've had to go through allthese years with moving film, Yeah,

(03:57):
I really have. When you canbring people onto your team that have an
expertise and sound or writers for example, my god, I depend so much
on our writer now for what hebrings to the table, and just to
work with other people that are workingat an eigeh level and their line of
expertise when they all come together tomake the final creative product. It's really

(04:20):
rewarding to see that, not onlyfor my contribution to it, but just
the whole package as it kind ofcomes together, and to work with those
people to bring it together. Soyou kind of have to leave your ego
at the door, you know,a lot of times, and just let
it happen and appreciate what the otherpeople, you know, what their strengths
are and what they bring to thetable for it. So that's been I

(04:41):
guess the greatest takeaway for me sofar. Is just kind of moving into
that collaborative world of creativity rather thankind of a solo project that I've been
doing. So that's the special part. This was very important to you personally
though, and I know that youmade repeated trips back and forth visiting with

(05:02):
the Phillips family, with Bum's family. So it's about the Love You Blue
days, but you're calling it CoachPhillips. Yeah, it's Coach Phillips.
It's about Bum Phillips, Wade Phillips, and West Phillips. So it's Bum
Phillips, his son, Wade Phillips, and then Wade son West Phillips,
So there's three generations that have beenNFL coaches. Wes is an offensive coordinator

(05:24):
right now with the Minnesota Viking,so he hasn't had a head coaching opportunity
yet in the NFL, but Isuspect it's not far down the road for
him with the track record that he'salready put together. So it's coach Phillips,
meaning all three of them, butit is weighted somewhat toward Bum Phillips
and the Linda Love You Blue era, which was so special to Houston.
There was something about Bum Phillips,So that was not just special to Houston.

(05:47):
You really did have a national audiencefor a man like that, So
expanding into his sons, it's notreally such a strange occurrence to get a
national audience, is it. Iwouldn't think so. No, And it
has been surprising how many people we'vetalked to, and people when you're traveling
in other cities around the country andyou mentioned bum Phillips, kind of thinking

(06:10):
that they're going to look at you, you know, and not know what
you're talking about, and they immediatelysay, oh, yeah, I know
him, the guy with the cowboyhat, you know, and the boots
and the belt buckles, and alot of people that I didn't suspect would
have been aware of who bum Phillipswas certainly are aware of him and know
about him. So yeah, Idefinitely think it has has national appeal at
that level. And Wade, he'sbeen a head coach all over the country

(06:33):
in the NFL, so he's youknow, known in a lot of those
cities and markets where he coached ashe came up through his career. So
the Phillips family has definitely known,you know, around the country and the
NFL ranks as well as football fansthat watch so definitely and for people who
don't know a lot about pro footballand coaching and all of that. For

(06:55):
us, it's more like the spirit. There's a certain spirit, there's a
certain added Dude, what is itthat's so special about the Phillips. I
think they're just they're very, veryreal, They're very down to earth,
and they're a wonderful family. Youknow. That was one of the things
about the documentary was we really hadno there was nothing negative that you could

(07:15):
talk about, and I you know, not that we want something negative,
but there's broadcast. Yeah, that'sexactly it. To keep it from not
being boring. Is there some littleelement in there that you can have a
conflict for example, that you knowcomes into the storyline, And there really
wasn't. I mean, they're justthey were great people, and I think
bum started it all off with hisspecial manner of creating a family, you

(07:40):
know, his team. He wantedto create a family atmosphere with his team
because he thought that the players aregoing to play harder and play more for
your family than you are for justsomebody else. So that was kind of
I think his you know, hisattitude going into it, and that certainly
prevailed with Wade's career, and Iwould think that is probably taking some of

(08:01):
that along with him. But itwas very interesting interviewing a bunch of the
old oiler players that we talked to, you know, just about how bumb
would create a family atmosphere, andinterviewing maybe the next week or the next
month, or whenever we would interviewfrom the wage players, they would tell
you exactly the same thing. Nowthey're coming along twenty five years later,
thirty years later, something like that, but you're hearing exactly the same words

(08:24):
almost come out of their voices thatyou heard come out of Bombs players.
So that was very interesting to methat that was how they worked and how
they developed teams by creating a familyatmosphere and really being there for the players.
And I think the relationships that thoseguys have taken from the game with
these players that they mentored and coachedthrough the years is it's a lifelong relationship.

(08:48):
They're still very very close to playersthat they coached and worked with years
ago. You said there was nothingnegative, but they you didn't lack for
heartbreak and the world of scores,there was a lot of heartbreak that was
associated certainly with the Oilers in termsof losing, winning, losing and coming
so close and that sort of thing. Yeah, definitely there was for the

(09:11):
city of Houston, I think,and you know, just watching back through
all the old film and talking toall the people we've talked to, it's
really been fascinating for me. AndI was there. I was for a
lot of it. I was afeature photographer for the Houston Oilers Oiler Report
magazine that they had at that time, and so I was on the field
from most all those games from aboutseventy eight to through about nineteen eighty two

(09:35):
or three. So the Love YouBlue, I was kind of on the
most of the Love You Blue era. I guess I was part of it.
I was there and in the Domeand remember the you know, the
excitement of that the city had atthat time, and it was very very
special. So to get that closeto the Super Bowl so many times and
not to make it, I think, was you know, very tough on

(09:58):
the coaches, the players, andthe city of Euston. But boy,
you know, watching them play,I just have so much respect, probably
more respect now than I did thenbecause I didn't really realize as much then,
I guess as I do looking backat it now. But in the
years that they played with the rulesthe way they were and lack of protections
for the quarterbacks and the equipment thatthey were using, I mean, those

(10:18):
guys were they were playing a verytough sport and you know, it was
it was something to watch some ofthose games now and see how they were
putting it out there back then,for sure, or not that they're not
now, but they certainly were earningtheir money back then. Would you use
words like inspiration they had to beinspired by a leadership, Oh, absolutely,
I think And that's what I thinkBomb brought to the table as a

(10:41):
coach was that they loved him andwould have Many of them said that they
would have run through a wall forBomb Phillips. He created that sort of
an atmosphere where they wanted to goout there and play for him, play
to win, and they did.You know, they got very close.
And another thing interesting that we talkedto some of the Pittsburgh Steeler players.
Pittsburgh was always kind of roadblock wecame up against every year when they got

(11:03):
closed in the championship game, andthere was really a great respect between the
Oilers and the Steelers and vice versa. They really speak very highly of each
other, and that was very interestingto hear what the opposing team had to
say about the Oilers and what theOilers had to say about the Steelers.
So a lot of respect there thatyou may not a lot of people in

(11:24):
Houston may not think was there fromthe player's point of view, but it
really was. Well. In today'sworld, professional sports is all about the
winning, the winning, the winning, and the money that you break in
and what you pay for salaries.But it seems that this legacy is not
about wins and losses. This legacyis more about real people stuff. For

(11:45):
lack of a better word, Imean, the legacy of the Phillips is
what they inspired in other people andhow they in turn have lived their lives
differently, maybe exactly exactly well said, well, thank you, I'm kind
of lacking the words here. Anythingthat really makes you the proud is about
this particular documentary or a surprise thatyou had, or something that will always

(12:11):
be in your mind thinking, wow, I'm so glad I got to do
this, because maybe you learned somethingyou didn't know. I think what makes
me the most proud is just rememberingbeing on the field back in those days
in the late seventies, and justremembering thinking back to those memories of being
there and the feel of the astrodomthen and the sound of it, and

(12:33):
the excitement and the love you bluebanners everybody had, And just to be
a photographer, a young photographer atthat time, on the field doing what
I was doing at that time,which was still sports photography, And then
now being able to have this opportunityto create a documentary film that in large
part goes back to that man thatwas kind of at the center of that

(12:54):
bump Phillips, this larger than lifefigure that you know, at that time
in my life, I was kindof, you know, in the background
on looking up at him all thetime. Yeah, I was. I
mean, you were intimidated by himbecause he was just larger than life coach
bum Phillips. And now to beable to get to know the family,
which I've known Wade and Laurie fora while, but to get to know

(13:15):
much more of the family, andto talk to so many of these people
that were inspired by him and playedfor him and truly still tell us that
how much they love the Phillips familyand then they considered themselves a part of
the Phillips family. That's been reallyspecial, I guess, in rewarding for
me to think back that I wasthere at that time and now I'm able
to help kind of mold this documentaryinto this story about the three Phillips,

(13:39):
bum Wade, and West. Sothat's been the biggest reward for me.
And you think the audience is goingto walk away with this good feeling about
all of this, I certainly hopeso, because that's the message in the
story is to me is really therelationships that these three coaches have built through
their lifetimes with their players because oftheir coaching style, and they're special coaches.

(14:03):
They're really they're special people and specialcoaches, and not all of them
were that way, not even closeto being that way. So I think
it was what Euston had at thattime in a professional sports team and the
coaching family that was coaching that teamis something that doesn't come along every day.
You know, we talked about yourlife and your career and you've made

(14:26):
unexpected leaps and making a leap suddenlyfrom all these years of still photography and
suddenly you're doing moving pictures, you'reproducing, you're working on with teams of
people rather than, as you justsaid, your solitary thing. But this
is not just one and done foryou. You already have others underway with

(14:46):
this production company. So tell memore about that. What are you working
on right now the most? Andare you working on a couple of projects
simultaneously. Yes, a couple ofprojects simultaneously, And can't really talk about
what the projects are about at thistime because the production company does. They
want to keep that under wraps untilthey're ready to announce it. But a

(15:09):
couple of projects going on at once, and it's a lot of fun for
me to be able to work atthat level and documentary filmmaking now, And
I'm thankful every day that this opportunity'scome along, and I care very much
about the work that we're going toput on the screen. Hopefully there's some
big projects and I'm definitely up forthem. And you want to see him
do special things. Well, Icertainly understand about not revealing what you're working

(15:33):
on because there's always competition, andyou know, you don't want to lose
your copyright before you go out andyou do it. Bum Phillips is definitely
a heart of Texas that beats verystrongly even after death and through his family
and his legacy. I've always focusedon you as being a quintessential Texan because
you just take leaps and move yourdirect your career in many directions. But

(15:56):
I think as a Texan what youare now bringing to what largely a Hollywood
sort of ethic or ethos. Arethey happy to have you that long tong
Texan have a great experience and talentaboard. Yeah. One thing that bum
Phillips taught me and I don't notor what maybe I learned this through the

(16:18):
project going backwards some is you know, don't brag on yourself too much.
But you know, I don't knowwhat you mean exactly by the Hollywood part.
I mean another special thing to me, and this is the production company
Lucky Number eight Productions, owned byVance Howard. He's an amazing man.
He's doing great things for Texas bybeing the executive producer for these projects in

(16:38):
Texas, and that in itself,I think is something special what he's bringing
to the table and doing and allowingthese things to happen and to be produced
so not a lot of Hollywood connectionfor me at this time, but definitely,
you know, we're definitely doing someHollywood things here in Texas. I
think we kind of throw that outloosely as a term because you are talking
about big stream of production and it'salso about release released in theaters, release

(17:03):
streaming. How is all of thisgoing to be seen by the public,
And to me, that's pretty muchbeen driven by the coast. I don't
know honestly myself. That's the productioncompany's role as the how the release will
go, and I can't really speakto that. I'm just trying to create
the film at this point. Iknow they're working with some distribution companies in

(17:26):
Los Angeles right now for whatever thedistribution outlets are going to be, but
I would guess it's probably going tobe a streaming release overall. I'm not
sure what the outlet would be,but it probably will be a theatrical release
for you know, maybe a weekendor a week or something in the region
that we're in down here in theHouston area, Beaumont Port Arthur area,
and then I'm pretty certain that there'llbe some sort of a streaming offering that'll

(17:49):
be going out. You know,you never say never, but it seems
to me, once you've made thatleap, will you ever go back to
still for talk trophy again? Areyou still doing that simultaneously as you're doing
I don't know how you have enoughtime if you are. No, I'm
really not doing much steal photography atall right now, and honestly, I'm

(18:11):
too busy to think about it.I'm very happy moving in this new direction,
and you know, kind of completelywant to continue to go in that
direction one percent, one hundred andten percent, i'd say, in the
film documentary film direction. I reallyliked the documentary genre. It's something that
I've connected with. I like thefact that you're producing something that didn't have

(18:32):
a story to it, but italso is very educational, and so it's
a good mix for me. Andit's a direction that I really like working
in. And I think what reallykind of got me hooked on it was
when I kind of stuck my feetin the water a little bit with it.
I realized pretty quick that it wasa lot harder than I maybe anticipated
in the beginning to bring all thesethings together and to do it really well.
And so now I'm kind of hookedon doing it really well and really

(18:56):
putting my time and effort into creatingsomething and special. So you know,
I've come to really appreciate good soundthat come to appreciate, you know,
good cinematography and good lighting and allthose different elements that you have to come
together to make something like this ata high level. So that's really what's
driving me now. I think it'sjust bringing all those elements together and hopefully

(19:18):
producing something that people are going toreally enjoy. I think it's something that
it's going to be a completely differentlevel of I guess feedback from people as
to whether they like it or don'tlike it, you know, and I'm
sure there'll be some people that maybethey don't care for it. But you
know, when you do the stillphotography that I've done, you do an
exhibition, photographs go hanging in amuseum or a gallery somewhere, and you

(19:42):
see people every now and then lookingat them, and they'll make some comments
about the work something like that.But this is going to be at a
much different level when you have somethingthat's streaming on a national streaming outlet,
or it's in theaters or something likethat. So I think getting feedback from
people will be something I'm looking forwardto hearing into taking into consideration for the

(20:04):
future project. It's a different typeof communication because you do develop a dialogue
with people who watch something. It'salso a different way of telling a story,
and you're still photographs. You verymuch tell a story. You capture
maybe a moment in time, butit's also a time that has no end
and really no beginning. That's theway I always saw your landscapes. But

(20:26):
now you're telling a story in atotally different way of telling a story,
and it's ongoing, and as Isay, it's a two way communication almost
with an audience. Do you appreciatethat or do you see that for something
other than just being totally artistic?I guess is what I'm driving at in

(20:48):
terms of documentary filmmaking and certainly featureshthe way this one is. Yeah.
With the documentary films, I wantto tell a story, for sure,
I want to educate people, maybeon something I didn't know about the subject,
and I think you know right now. For me, it's kind of
a blending of that educational information thatyou're giving people, but also giving it

(21:10):
to them with a true storyline andstory arc to it that you've baked into
that film, so that there's youknow, something that keeps people connected to
the film as they're watching it anddraws them into it, so to speak.
I think that's what I'm trying toyou know, kind of craft with
the documentary filmmaking right now is keepingthat educational element in there, but also
definitely you know, baking in astoryline and a story arc that keep people

(21:34):
drawn in. So that's kind ofthe magic for me, is to bring
all those elements together and make itsomething that, you know, hopefully at
the end of it, people thinkthat that was a good use of their
time to sit there for an hourand a half or two hours and watch
it. So it's definitely, youknow, and just saying that it's more
of a commitment than again walking througha gallery and looking at some photographs in

(21:56):
a museum hanging on a wall,versus committing yourself to sit in there for
a couple hours and watching a onepiece of work in a moving picture or
documentary film sort of a project.Hopefully they'll watch the whole thing and they'll
enjoy it, and they won't getup and turn it off and come back
to it at another time. Well, there's also this I sort of I
didn't mean to pan any sort ofartistic endeavor, because ultimately it's about making

(22:22):
people feel and respond. They haveto feel that feeling is a response to
what you're putting out there, andmaybe it's easier to measure it when it's
moving film and its sound and thisis the format. This is a format
for everything. Now, yeah,I think maybe it is easier to measure
it. That's a good way toput it. And that's exactly what my

(22:45):
goal with still photography was always wasto always tell people when I do gallery
talks, I'm not trying to photographwhat I'm seeing. I'm trying to photograph
what I'm feeling at that time andthen have that feeling transferred to the viewer
somehow. And that's kind of thethe magic of the what I'm trying to
do with the landscape photography, andthe same sort of thing with the documentary

(23:06):
filmmaking. I want people, justas you said, to feel something as
they're watching it, and to bedrawn into it and to want to stay
till the end of it. Sothat's kind of what I'm trying to find
how to do that. You know, and it's I think I'm doing a
pretty good job. But we'll see. You can't talk about what you're working
on in the future, and Ido understand that, but I think that

(23:27):
Texans will be pleased. You certainlymentioned that Texas is in good hands.
I don't mean to be vague aboutit, but yes, we're not until
these are, you know, officiallybeen released to the media. As coach
Phillips was there at one hundred yearbirthday celebration where I'm not able to talk
about what the project's about per se. But it's definitely got some Texas energy

(23:52):
in it and some Texas story init. I think it'll be well received.
Well, we well know that Texasresonates all around the world, so
that's a good thing. Mm hmm, it is Mark. Before I wrap
up, you know you you talkeda lot when we did the podcast about
your still photography and particularly your landscapes, about having this old soul. I

(24:15):
equate you with having an old soul, and you talked about the geology and
time and where does that. Iknow you bring old world viewpoints or capabilities
or old school maybe is a betterphrase into documentary filmmaking. Does how does

(24:36):
that jive with the fast world ofdigital this and digital that and here today
and gone tomorrow and very fast soundbites. How does this work the two
different marks, I mean you weretwo different marks now. Yeah, well
that's a really really good question.And what documentary filmmaking that definitely has come
into into play. So there areways that I times look backwards sometimes in

(25:03):
order to look forward for myself,you know, if that makes sense.
And I think with the documentary filmmaking, there are, you know, ways
that you can still tell a storyI think in a little bit slower way,
although there are a lot of thingsthat you know, the editor you
know, will take and he'll wantto speed up because apparently people they don't
want to look at something for morethan a you know, one second now
before they want to go to thenext thing. So I say that in

(25:26):
jest to be it's not really true. I think there's a lot of things
that the documentary filmmaking that I cando where I slow things down just a
little bit, but you can stillkeep an interest level there. But it
definitely that has been one of theeye opening things for me, is how
to rapidly have those elements that Iwould say a lot of the younger audience
expects to see in a documentary filmas far as moving through a number of

(25:51):
scenes or giving you a lot ofinformation quickly. I keep thinking that you've
focused a lot on geology. You'vefocused a lot on geography, obviously,
Well, now you really have tofocus a lot on history. But history
can't be boring or you won't haveany viewers. So how do you make

(26:11):
history hum but not lose the historywhich is the whole point of it.
That's why you document it. Ijust don't know how to express that any
words right now, but I knowwhat you're saying. It's a challenge,
you know, and especially again tome, I guess where my mind's going
right now as you get back intothe collaborative side of things with documentary filmmaking

(26:32):
and what I'm what the documentary filmmakingis for me Now, it's not just
me. It's when I the materialthat I take or I produce, or
that you know, the cinematography andthe interviews and all the elements that I'm
giving to my editor, you know, And then I'm sitting down with the
editor and then I'm listening to andI'm really not only listening to, but

(26:52):
respecting very much his opinion on thingsbecause he's a proven film editor. So
I want to let some of myego go away and let his, you
know, expertise come into the matter. And because I think that's how you
create something better, bigger and betterthan you know, just what me as
one person can do. And that'sreally that's the big thing for me now

(27:17):
that I've kind of allowed to happen, is to allow the writers and the
editors to come in and to be, you know, a big, big
part of what the production is goingto be. And so I mean,
it's not just a bunch of peoplethat you do a lot of interviews with.
For actualities, you have scripting,you have writing, you have ins
and outs, and you've got Iassume you're probably going to have some narration

(27:40):
in these Oh yeah, there isnarration, And I call the narrator,
and these documentaries really are storyteller,you know, more than our narrator,
because it's kind of the lines thatthey're saying are kind of the bridges and
the lead ins that kind of createthe story, keep the storyline kind of
connected. But you know, that'sa tough question, and I don't really
know how to answer it, Iguess because it's not just me, it's

(28:02):
you know, it's me, it'sthe writer, it's the editor, it's
all the other people that I'm workingwith now that I really respect what they
bring to the table. And tome, that's the magic of this whole
process is that collaboration that was notpart of what I was doing before with
the landscape photography, you know,a completely different animal. And you know,
that's probably the biggest growth part forme personally, has been just putting

(28:26):
a lot of my thoughts on theback burner and letting their thoughts come into
the fold because I'm thinking that youknow, when we once we kind of
make the sausage, so to speak, you know, at the end of
it, we're going to have abetter product. And it was just my
viewpoint, that's that's where the sumis greater than the parts, exactly exactly.
That's exactly what I was trying tosay, is that, And that's

(28:48):
where I've gotten with my creative processnow is by depending on and wanting actively
want to hear what my editor Donhas to say, or I want to
hear what my writer Joe has tosay, because that's really what makes it
special, and we'll be right backquite openly. I've long been a fan

(29:17):
of Mark Burns, a supporter anda collector of his National Parks Photography project,
with an admiration for his many professionalincarnations, and as a Texan deboot,
my own personal journey with video newsand documentary production begs the question of
where is that going these days?From Mark standpoint, I think, you

(29:42):
know, the way these visual artsare being distributed now to people, I
think is definitely changing rapidly, andI've talked to some people that think that
in the next ten years it's goingto be completely different. You know,
the way people get information on againthrough their paths and their telephones, but
also on through their vehicles as newtechnology with cars and vehicles come down the

(30:07):
pike. So it'd be interesting tosee where it all goes. But it
seems to me it's the delivery systemand the nature and maybe even some of
the topics. You can take asmall topic and you can turn it into
something that is feature length and incrediblyentertaining and educational at the same time.
But more than that, it's allabout this communication model. That's true,

(30:30):
That's very true. The amount ofinformation that's we're able to access now is
incredible and is only going to inmy mind, just going to continue to
escalate. I'm just fascinated with thedirection in your life. You just suddenly
make these turns in these leaps,and you open up whole new worlds for

(30:51):
yourself, and I think that's aninspiration. Unto itself, Well, it's
I think you got to keep growing. I'd like to have goals and I
like to keep growing. You know, to me, as a creative human
being, it's hard to just continueto do the same thing over and over
again. So I enjoy you know, learning and to me though, I
will say, it's thought very muchabout about being creative. You know,

(31:12):
I'm doing something. I'm still doingsomething creative for me, so I'm kind
of feeding myself that creative outlet thatI need, but I'm doing it in
a different way. Well, Ihope you're getting some sleep, because it
seems to me that you're just reallyit's a lot. Yeah, it is
a lot, but you know,again, I'm doing something I love to

(31:32):
do, and so that makes itmuch easier to not I'm not sleeping as
much as I should be, probably, but I'm enjoying every minute of it.
So you're not retiring, no,And I'm not retiring and nowhere close
to that. And I'm working withpeople I really enjoy working with, and
it's going to be fun to seewhat we can deliver here for the next
four or five years. Now,that's a plan. Hope you'll check into

(32:07):
my Heart of Texas at KTRH dotcom to listen to earlier talks I had
with Mark Burns, not to mentionsome of my other favorites of Texas.
So far, there will be moreto come with the help of our team
of KTRH News producer Jeff Biggs andcreative producer Jacob Dante. I'm Shery Fryar,
and thanks to all of you listeningto my Heart of Texas