September 1, 2024 • 58 mins
On today’s program, Randy Greenstein, co-owner Big Night Entertainment talks about the nightclub scene in Boston and beyond. The CEO of M&T Bank, Rene Jones, joins us to discuss their Massachusetts businesses. Don Seiffert, managing editor of the Boston Business Journal, joins us to talk about the pending Biosecure Act act and how it would impact Massachusetts biotech companies. Jeff Myers, Research Director for Colliers International here in Boston, talks about the market for lab space. And finally, Chelcie Martin, owner Honey Pot Hill Orchards in Stow Massachusetts talks about the business of Apple picking.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the New England Business Report with Joe Shortsleeve
and Kim Carrigan, a weekly round up and discussion of
the top business news impacting our New England economy.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome everybody to the New England Business Report. I'm Kim
Kerrigan along with Joe short Good morning, Happy September.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Happens, It happened. There's no going back now.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh gosh, Labor Day weekend. I just can't believe. I mean, honestly,
we talk about this every week, but I really cannot
get over how quickly. And I'm not the only one,
and you're not the only one. No, no, everybody I talked
to you says the same thing.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's the kids are going back
to school, and oh my.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Do you have grandchildren who are in school yet?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I do. In fact, I have a five year old
at is starting kindergarten. So and of course she went
into kindergarten the first day and you met the new
teacher and the whole bit, and you know, so far,
so good, though, so fast, excelent.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
One of the things that really bothers me is that
the kids go back beforehand, and it's so hard to
get him adjusted and get them in there. They're off
for four or five days, you know, with Labor Day,
and you have to sort of mom has to sort
of peel them off again. On the other side, Well,
we've got a great show for you today, folks, and
we're so glad that you can be with us. Let's
take a look at some of the things coming up.
(01:15):
By the way, sometime really is still summer, so it
does not end until the twenty second.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
So well, you're going to hold your feet to them.
What do they call it? Meteorological fall is September, October,
and November. You don't have to use two words. So
here we are. We are a meteorological fall. We are
king leaves, folks. Get those pumpkins out all right.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Joining us today first is Don Seifert. He's the managing
editor of the Boston Business Journal. He's going to talk
to us a little bit about the fact that there's
a federal possible federal law out there that would put
huge restrictions in maybe even band Chinese own biotechs in
this country. I think it's pretty obvious Joe, why this
(01:57):
is a good idea, Because you know, if you and
you have companies that have the ability to share this
kind of information with China, there starts to be question marks.
But there's also a question mark for the state of
Massachusetts because we depend heavily on research and development and
some of these companies that are owned by the.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, I know, and everybody is saying, well, it could,
you know, really impact him in the short term, but
I think the long term, you know. And everybody's asking
the same question here, saying, you know, shouldn't we really
be doing this on our own anyway, regardless if it's
China or not, I mean anyway, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So that's coming up with Don here in just a
few minutes. Also, we're going to be joined this morning
by Jeff Myers. He's an old friend of ours from
Colliers who joined us frequently on the Bloomberg Show. He's
the research director there at Colliers, and we're going to
talk to him about lab space. Yeah, they speaking of biotecht.
We're going to talk about lab space here in Massachusetts,
(02:55):
you know, before the pandemic and then just shortly thereafter
or it seemed like this was the booming industry in
the state.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
On the Bloomberg Show we did together, we talked about
it all the time, more lab space, more lab spe
how far it could go.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Absolutely converting. They were converting buildings, you know, to lab space,
and now suddenly a lot of that lab space stands empty.
So we're going to talk to him about where we
stand when it comes to lab space and commercial real estate.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
We're going to end today's program with a pretty special guest.
A local kid grew up in the Air, Massachusetts, went
to Boston College. Today. He's the CEO of M and
T Bank, Renee Jones, and there, of course a big
sponsor of mass Challenge. You see their green signs everywhere.
He's going to talk to us a little bit about
(03:43):
the future of banking, what does it mean and this
you know, this technology at this point? Do we need
the brick and mortar banks anymore? And where do I do?
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What you do I do?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
How often do you go in?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I do pretty much all my banking in my cool
Why is that? Because I'm an app?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Do you deposit checks on your phone?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Nope?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I just told you? I mean, do I have to
explain this more? I just figured out what my password
is so I can check my accounts. I know, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
This is probably another topic for another day. But anyway,
we're gonna be talking with Renee Jones and maybe he
can help Kim. Probably gonna have to assign a personal banker.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I may be lost, may be unhelpable.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, anyway, what else we got? Oh boy, We've got
a lot happening in today's program. And before Renee, we're
actually gonna be chatting with Chelsea Martin, owner of Honey
Pot Orchards out there in Stone, Massachusetts. It's apple picking season.
Of course, since it's a now September first, and I've
been out there a number of times. It's a great spot.
(04:54):
I mean, just don't go at eleven am on a
Saturday morning. The whole planet Earth has arrived. But it's
a beautiful spot. And we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
The business, huge industry in this state, you know. I
mean they look forward to September first, No two ways
about that. I look forward to the donuts.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah. Oh, and they have like a little store there.
That's episode And also on the program today we talk
about Big Night Entertainment. We're going to meet with the
talk with Randy Greenstein. He's one of the co owners.
I guess they had what did he say nineteen or
twenty venues. Why venues twenty venues?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This guy is busy, but they own the world.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, but he said, you know, this is a business program.
So we ask him the business question, and he, you know,
sort of surprised Kim and I with a very honest answer.
He said, twenty twenty four in the nightclub business at
this point not so good. Yeah, not so good. So
he talks a little bit about you know why and
where you go from here.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, we are happy today to be welcoming Don Seifert
of the managing editor of the Boston Business Journal with us,
and Don, good to have you with us on this
Labor Day weekend. Kids going back to school? You said
next week.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Right of course?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, oh boy, where did the summer go?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Are you singing that song and statement this is the
most wonderful time with the year or.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Yeah, uh yeah, I'm not I'm not crying about the
fact that you.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Don You guys had a cover story that you wanted
to chat about, and this is related to Chinese owned
biotech going on in the city and that there's there's
gonna be some restrictions. Talk to us a little bit
about what this might mean for some local businesses.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Yeah, yeah, what this is this is actually a federal
a federal band that could go into effect. It's been
discussed in Congress for a little while now, and it
basically grows out of this concern of Chinese owned biotechs.
A lot of local biotechs.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
You know, drug developers rely on contract researchers and contract manufacturers.
You know that's too, you know, to make their drugs,
are to help them with testing. And this legislation is
you know, it's called the Biosecure Act. And one of
the one of the earlier co sponsors was was Jake
an ol Can closs is how to pross his name
(07:13):
from Newton Congressman yep. And but you know, it grew
out of security concerns just that you know that that
sharing Americans genetic information and are you know, cutting edge
biologic information with with companies that are you know, ostensibly
controlled by the Chinese government or very well could be
(07:35):
and you know, might be a security risk. And so
this legislation is thought to ban relationships.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
It had not gone into effect yet, but some some
of the industry are already kind of worried about what
would happen if it does.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, well, don wouldn't it be better at the end
of the day, if we local companies did this, especially
here in New England and the United States, did this
on their own that we didn't rely on, say, Chinese companies.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
Yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Mean, yes, it makes a lot of sense. I mean,
there's very valid concern about this, but I mean it
turns out there are some local companies that are Chinese owned,
that are you know, as some local drug developers told us,
that are basically very good at what they do. They're
you know, they're very good at doing these tests or
doing these manufacturing and we don't have enough you know,
(08:21):
locally based ones really to supply all of this. You know,
this is the kind of you know, when you think
about the biotech sector. Obviously this is a huge sector
from Massachusetts and what you know, the ones that get
all the attention, uh, you know, our editorial cars bout
the rock stars of biotech are like the drug developers.
These these contract researchers and manufacturers are more like the roadies.
(08:44):
So they're they're the ones who are hired, but they're
they're essential to the running of this. And yeah, I
mean It would be great if we had enough that
that were local.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
But but currently we don't.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
And that's why a lot of companies do really on
these Chinese owned companies so done.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
What would be the reality for patients if in fact
this happens.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Well, what what the the you know, mass Bile, the
industry lobbying group. You know, they argue that, you know,
I mean, the one they understand what they need for.
So it's not they're arguing against that that they think
this shouldn't pass, but they are saying this is going
to be a big hardship, you know, as far as
patients go. I mean, yeah, it could very well slow
down innovation. It could slow down the testing, the bringing
(09:25):
of these kind of important medicines to patients. I mean,
it could slow down the whole industry economically, you know,
for mass chu Is obviously this is a huge industry
for US is what Boston is known for worldwide, and
and you know it could it could slow down the
pace in which we were able to do that kind
of stuff in the US.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Talking with Don Seifert, he's a managing editor of the
Boston Business Journal, and I guess, Don, this sort of
brings us back to Governor morro Heally and here economic
development package up there on Beacon Hill, which didn't make
it past the July thirty first deadline. Uh, and I
guess there's one hundred to millions of dollars in there
that could maybe address this issue.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Well, yeah, there's you know, one big part or one
of the biggest parts of the economic Development package that
Governor Healy proposed is this reauthorization of the Life Sciences
Initiative that was started by Duval Patrick now fifteen years ago.
You know, we have put I think it was like
five hundred million dollars into it. The Senate only wanted
(10:24):
to put less than half that into it, and you
couldn't decide or couldn't agree on a on number, and
it just didn't pass. So that money, a lot of
that money is earmarked for bio manufacturing and for UH
and for increasing our contract our research capabilities. So so yeah,
I mean one step that that mass Bio has said
(10:44):
is kind of important is, you know, can we just
pass this this funding for life sciences the initiative and
that would help increase our capacity, make you know, make
it better, uh, you know, more attractive for Massachusetts for
these drug manufact et, UH contractors and UH and and
that would at least get us ready if this does
(11:06):
actually pass the federal government, this band goes into effect.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And how quickly might that pass? Don? What kind of
track is it on?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
I mean the federal one? Yes, yeah, I was just
checking on that. It is unclear. I mean, you know,
this is federal and it's an election year, so it's
definitely not happening before November, right, I would you know,
it's apparently it has passed both the committees and the
House and the Senate on Capitol Hill, but it has
not passed the full you know, hasn't been approved by
either of the full Senate or House. So I would
(11:35):
think next year that's minimal and and you know, well
it could well change before then too. But but you know,
I gu said, I mean there is valid concern over
over sharing this kind of information with companies that that
you know, share their information with China.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You bet, Don, Teifer, thanks so very much for your
time this morning. Interesting story. Will keep an eye on
that because that really the impact here in this state
could be great. Okay, so come in your way. Jeff
Myers from he's a research director from a collegers. He's
going to join us. He's going to talk to us
about commercial real estate in the state, and most specifically,
(12:10):
we're going to talk to him about lab space. As
we talk about these kinds of things, it's interesting. We've
talked about lab space a lot, and boy there was
a big boom. But guess what, folks, things are going backward.
Apparently you're listening to the New England Business Report.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
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Speaker 3 (15:14):
And welcome back to the New England Business Report. On
this Sunday morning, Joke shorts lived here with Kim Carrigan.
I'm gonna talk about a topic near and dear to
Kim and myself. I mean, over the years, we all
watched it happen, this explosion of lab space in Boston.
On one hand, it was just great because you know,
our economy here and the biotech economy was so strong
and everybody was looking for lab space. But you know
(15:36):
it's Kim and I did the program at Bloomberg years ago.
We asked the question, okay, so you know how we're
going pretty We're really kind of going overboard here, folks,
aren't we?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And I guess we eventually we did. So anyway, there's
an article here. It was actually I want to give
credit where credits due to John Chester the Boston Globe,
and he headline was by one key measure. Boston's lab
market is in rough shape as the pandemic battered office
market amid a wave of new construction and an industry
slow down, The vacancy rate for life science buildings has
(16:07):
exploded in recent years, and John spoke with Jeff Myers
as about this story. Jeff Myers, of course, is the
research director for Collier's International here in Boston, someone that
Kim and I are very familiar with, and we welcome
Jeff back to the program today. Jeff, okay, take us
through this. What's going on with the lab market in Boston.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Well, the lab.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
Market in Boston has certainly seen better days. It's getting
hit on a couple of different fronts, and one of
them that just touched on. There's a lot of construction
taking place, to the point that there's so much construction
that either recently delivered or underway that the demand in
the marketplace can't keep up with all of the deliveries,
and as a result, vacancy to have shot up rapidly
(16:54):
and there's more space than we had on the market
ever before.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So where did this disconnect happen?
Speaker 6 (17:01):
I think it started back in twenty twenty one twenty two.
Back then we had a really hot lab market. If
you think about what was happening at that time, there
was lots of venture capitals flowing into the sector. Stock
prices were high, so there was a great exit. Lots
of money was slowing into these companies, and there was
lots of absorption, lots of demand. And at that time,
(17:22):
vacancies went down to about one percent, which means around
the entire Boston market there was only a couple of
one hundred thousand square feet of lab space available in
a given quarter. And of course, when developer see that
for rent to go up, and when investors see that,
they want to buy in. And as they all bought
in and started to develop and convert more projects and
(17:42):
put more turn more dirt, unfortunately that demand side got
a lot weaker. And now what we're experiencing is the
ramnifications of that demand isn't zero, but is not as
strong as it was. But with millions of square feet delivering,
vacancies have gone from about that one percent besolved Back
in late twenty one early twenty twenty two to about
(18:04):
twenty one and a half percent today. That's a twenty
percentage point increase in vacancy is in only a couple
of years. And that couple of one hundred thousand square
feet of vacant space, well, now there's more than eleven
million square feet of space available across the market.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Jeff Myers our guess, a research director for Collier's International. Well,
you know, I guess the next question there is okay,
so what is that doing to rents and how closely
can you even track that? Are not knowledgeable? Are you
about it?
Speaker 6 (18:32):
Yeah? Well, rents, I'm back in the height of the market.
Every time you looked at the month or a quarter,
rents went up. And so in places like East Cambridge
you might have started off at ninety, then one under
it in one, ten, one, twenty five and a couple
of deals may be even closed above there there is
a lot less upward pressure on rents now. In fact,
(18:53):
with eight million square feet of direct space and three
million square feet of subway space, it's firmly a tenant's market.
So if you're a tenant right now, you're not going
into a market where you have to lease something and
wait for it to deliver in two or three years.
You're not going into a situation where you have to
lease space defensively or more than you need at that
point in time, just to make sure you have room
(19:13):
to grow. Now, you can go into the market and say, hey,
I like this submarket or that submarket existing construction or conversion,
or you could even say I want to go into
a building that has spec suits built ready for me,
or that's sublease, so I can get in there as
quickly as possible and get to doing the research that
I really want to do.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, Jeff, what are you going to what's going to
happen to all of this space if it's not rented out?
Because this is very specific and it was relatively expensive
to build it out.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
Correct, that's very correct, I'm kim. When we think about
other property types out there, they're experiencing high vacancies, like
the office market in Boston. If you're one of those
older Class B buildings, you might get pegged for conversion
to student housing or apartments or a hotel or something
like that. But given the basis that a lot of
these new ad buildings are in that mass just gets
(20:06):
a little bit harder to work. Unfortunately, when you look
at the Boston market from a long term perspective, we
have a lot of great demand drivers to keep life
science companies wanting to locate here. Between twenty nineteen and
twenty twenty twenty three, the Boston market as a whole
absorbed about thirteen million square feet of life science space.
(20:28):
That thirteen million square feed in that five year period
is more than what most other whole metros did across
the country, and so all it may take a while
to get vacancies to come down through absorption. I think
that it will happen over time.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Jeff put it in perspective a little bit in terms
of we're talking about lab space, but you also track
just straight up commercial space in downtown Boston. Perhaps you
could compare and contrast the two as we're talking about
downtown Boston or the Metro one twenty eight as well.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
So when I'm thinking about the Boston office market, the
city of Boston, we have an overall vacancy rate of
about twenty two to twenty three percent, and the overall
life science making serator is just below that at about
twenty one and a half percent. Now the Boston office
market did not get as tight now one percent we
mentioned before as the office market did E gives me
the office market got down to in the maybe around
(21:21):
ten to thirteen percent or so, which was really healthy
for the office market. There was absorption taking place. The
difference on the office side is there has been some construction.
We do have some new empty space that's out there.
Look at properties like Winthrop Center or the fact that
the South Station Tower hasn't had any major announcement yet.
But the bigger problem there has been absorption and negative
(21:43):
demand and folks working from home that is really rhed
on that recovery prospect. So on that side of the ledger,
I'd be more concerned about those office buildings and figuring
out what they're going to do than on the life
science side, where I do think that the demand story
is a little bit easier to envision.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Let's just talk about it. You just mentioned it a
little bit, but let's just talk about commercial real estate
as a whole. Certainly there has been some suffering related
to commercial real estate in the Bust area and across
the state. How are we doing overall?
Speaker 6 (22:14):
I think overall we are heading towards a position where
owners that are in a place of distress. Those could
be owners that bought at a high market rate and
now because of elevated interest rates and they're changing cap rates,
properties aren't worth as much as they were before. Makes
it harder to sell. Maybe there's a construction loancoming do
that they're having to address, and it's harder to refinance
(22:36):
into that higher rate. I think we're going to start
to see more of those properties start to move through
the market and transact, And indeed, in places like downtown
Bossing and some suburban communities, we are starting to see
those properties start to move through and and find buyers
and sellers meeting in the marketplace. I think we're going
to need to get more of that. And next month,
if the fit doesn't the lower interest rates, I think
(22:56):
that'll help degrees the wills to get some of those
transactions going, but it doesn't solve the issue overall of
I'm looking at the commercial real estate landscape in Boston.
I think office is really probably the most distressed, and
there's probably the most concern about where it's going to
go live. Science is really up there. But I do
think we can see a path out the apartment market
fundamentally is in pretty good condition, but it still has
(23:19):
to deal with those same capital market issues. Vacancies are
rising and industrial. But I think the demand story there
is actually pretty good as well, and I don't think
that that's going to get so out of black as
it has in the office, in life science and markets.
In retail, it kind of depends on where you are.
If you're in a good retail location, we have seen
some demands starting to arise. Look at all of that's
the traffic and activity in the Seapork. However, we're in
(23:42):
some other submarkets, we do still see vacancies in some
of them all than some of our urban shopping corridors.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, that was Kim shopping in the seaport. That's what
you saw there. Yeah. Jeff Myers, a research director for
Kyllier's International here in Boston. Thanks very much, Very insightful
and makes you wonder, you know when this will start
to turn the other direction. But anyway, if anybody's going
to know it or see it, it'll be the folks
(24:09):
over there at Collier's Up next. How about this. It's September,
so it's time to go apple picking. Let's go out
to Stowe, Massachusetts and honey pot Orchards. We'll talk with
the owner of that property out there. Chelsea Martin. You're
listening to the New England Business Support.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Kim and Joe. We'll explore more business news that impacts
our New England economy when they return.
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That's a love.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
This is Joe Shortsleeve of the New England Business Report
on WRKO. I'm joined by Sam Lang of Rabino and
Lang Wealth Partners. Sam. Why is it so urgent to
ensure our retirement plan works for us and is free
of mistakes?
Speaker 7 (26:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Very important, Joe.
Speaker 9 (26:16):
You know at Ribino and Lang Wealth Partners, we specialize
in retirement planning. We know that you want to be
confident in retirement. Whether you're asking, hey do I have
enough to retire? How do I best manage my investments?
Or if you have enough to leave behind to a
loved one. We're here to help. Our three sixty five
retirement plan process is designed to build a personal relationship
with you, taking the time to understand your unique situation,
(26:38):
we create customized strategies to help you pursue your retirement goals.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
All right, you've got my attention. How can we start
building our three sixty five retirement plan? Very simple?
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You heard it, that's six one seven four to four
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Speaker 1 (27:05):
The New England Business Report on w RKO is brought
to you in part by Lomachia Realty Lamachia Reelty. You
will guide you to your success. Visit lomachiareelty dot.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Com and welcome back to the New England Business Report
on this Sunday morning. Yeah okay, so Kim, it's time
to go apple picking.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
No, it's great. And you know there's one place I
always go and it's honeypothill Orchards out there a Stowe, Massachusetts,
and it's it's just a beautiful spot and you know,
unfortunately a lot of people know about it, so fuck
that the whole planet shows up on you know, Saturday morning.
But anyway, let's bring in Chelsea Martin. She is a
well fourth generation owner of honeypothill Orchards. It's one hundred
(27:52):
and eighty six acres out there and Stowe, Massachusetts. Chelsea Martin,
welcome to the program. How are you today?
Speaker 10 (28:00):
Thanks so much for having you guys. I'm doing pretty well.
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
We're good. You know we're a business program is apple picking?
You know? Your quarter is this? Is this a quarter
of the year that Honey pot hill Orchards makes their money?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (28:14):
Yes, we actually do most of our business in about
six weeks. We're trying really hard to spread it out
a little bit more, but New England really likes this tradition,
so we are firmly fall and between August, September and
October we do about eighty percent of our business.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
So it's September one, Chelsea. How do the apples look
right now?
Speaker 10 (28:37):
We're really lucky this year. Last year was a bit tough.
This year the crops looking phenomenal. We have teaches, which
all of New England was very excited about after last
year we lost them. But and the crop we had
one week of frost, but we made it through just fine,
and the crop looks really good. We've got a lot
(28:57):
of really good looking apples. We've got a lot of
really good looking honey crisp, which always the favorite of
the pupil, so we're very excited. It should be a
good year.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Give us a macro view of honey pothill orchards out there.
Speaker 10 (29:09):
And still we do a lot here. We say we
sell fall, so we we're here for your pumpkins, your
apple needs. We grow all of the stuff that we
sell and we don't really sell to grocery stores, so
you know, we try to be a family place. We
bring people out to enjoy the property and as you said,
(29:30):
you know in your intro, we really appreciate it's the
beautiful spot rolling hills. Some of our trees are over
seventy five years old, so we're one of the last
places of those big, old standard New England apple trees
that you just love to look at.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Chelsea, I realized that the fall is sort of your
super Bowl. But what happens there at honeypot the rest
of the year.
Speaker 10 (29:50):
Such a good question. People always ask me how my
winter vacation is. And actually my dad and I work
five to seven days a week year round. So we
have thirty two thousand trees here and we've proven them
all by hand. So we spend most of the winter
out in a tree, which is actually nice if you
if you've ever worked in retail after about six months,
(30:11):
going into a tree and having no one talk to
you for six months is not a bad way to live.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So, Chelsea, are you Is it all rainbows and unicorns
at this point? I mean, we've this program. One of
the people we talked to, we talked to someone of
the entertainment world. They said, oh, business is down, it's
down twenty percent. I have a banker also concerned about
you know, where this economy is at this point? What
about you? Where are you on the new Engled economy
and how it impacts your business?
Speaker 10 (30:37):
I think we're about parts of the course. Farmers are
a bit pessimistic by nature, so we're just naturally never
happy the same as all We're always a little bit
worried for our crop. This is about the three weeks
of the year we get to enjoy because we're hopefully
out of the realm of hail, which does a lot
(30:58):
of damage to our crops. Over the suime, we have
to watch for thunderstorms. The one thing going forward is
rain on the weekends. But you know, most of it's
out of our control, and honestly, we're just grateful to
have a business and to have such a good customer base.
So it's not rainbows and sunshine. But I'll let the
(31:18):
bankers in the entertainment industry worry about what's out of
my control and hopefully we get a good enough fall
that's to pull through. Last year was terrible, so I'm
I'm honestly just happy to have a better year.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Why terrible? What was about last year that was terrible?
Speaker 10 (31:36):
We had a big freeze in May and a big
freeze in February, so a lot of our apples were
pretty damaged. And part of what we do here is
we're pretty obsessive growers. We like to sell good fruit,
so having a lot of damage fruit is sort of
demoralizing going into the season. And this year looks really nice,
(31:56):
so it's just it's just a brighter feeling going into harvest.
Having some good apples to sell.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I love that we're talking with Chelsea Martin. She is
the owner in her family has owned the Honey Pot
Hill orchards for more than one hundred years. So Chelsea,
talk to me about the fact that there are eighty
roughly eighty commercial apple farms in the state. I have
(32:23):
a feeling that hasn't been the case necessarily, or has
it since your family has owned those that property and
has been in this.
Speaker 10 (32:31):
Business, that number is low. Most of the apple orchards
in the state talk to each other. We're mostly family businesses,
and there's less and less of us all the time.
When my great grandfather bought this property, it was surrounded,
but I believe it or not, five other farms bordering it,
(32:54):
and all of those have gone out. We're the only
one remaining here. So it's a very tough business. I'm
not going to pretend like it's it's an easy thing
to get into or do, but uh, we are fighting hard,
all of us, to maintain, you know, what is a
(33:14):
way of life for us, and to provide a service
and good quality food to the people of Massachusetts. And
I know a lot of other farmers here feel the
same way.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Chelsea. What are your revenue revenue streams and what are
the top sellers?
Speaker 10 (33:28):
Uh, pick your own apples for us is very very big.
We also make a pretty killer sight or donut if
I do say so myself. We make those homemade here
every day, so that we do have the biggest hedge
mays in North America. So we have a couple of
hedgemases here and those so a lot of it, you know,
(33:49):
is low cost. So once we had the Hedgemae built,
it does bring in a pretty good revenue because all
of that was an upfront cost and once we planted
thousands of arbroviety by hand, that was a pretty big upfront.
But now that's established, it does make us some money.
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Absolutely, And tell us about the schedule. And well, let
me ask you before I ask you that, how many
employees do you have?
Speaker 10 (34:18):
How many employees do we have? Yes, so seasonally we
have two full time employees and then we have about
one hundred seasonal employees that we bring in for the
late summer in fall.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Wow, Okay, tell us about the schedule out there right now.
Speaker 10 (34:36):
So we're open daily from nine to six and then
daily four picking. We're doing blueberry and apple picking right
now from nine to five, and we continue that schedule
into November, and it's it's a long day. We usually start,
you know, between six six and then we'll work till
six or seven.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
All right. She's Chelsea Martin. She's one of the owners
there to Honeypot, hail Orchards and Stowe, Massachusetts. We do
appreciate you taking time and joining us today on the
New England Business Report.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well I'm telling you, Joe, can you believe it? Here
we are Labor Day weekend.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
There it comes, here come the tears.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I oh please, I'm telling you. The sun is coming
up so late. It's just such a disappointment. And you know,
we've got somewhere in the rear view. And I think
for a lot of folks who own restaurants and bars
and venues in the city, they actually look forward to
the fall because I think things really.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Oh yeah, the students come back with a pocketfull of money.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I'll spend this.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You got it exactly. So we wanted to just kind
of gauge, you know, where hospitality has been this summer
and where we're headed for the fall. And who better
to do that? With than with Randy Greenstein. He is
one of the co owners of Big Night, which Randy,
I am telling you every time I chat with one
of you guys, I just am blown away. You own Boston.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Well, thank you so much. I mean, it's been a
long run. We've been doing this well, my partner Adds
and doing it for thirty five plus years and we've
been partners for eighteen years. So it's it's it hasn't
been overnight, but over time in the last sixteen we've
built about twenty venues in and around Boston and Connecticut
(36:14):
and and then a few other companies during the during
the pandemic because all of our places were closed for
six to eighteen months. So yeah, we're just doing as
much as we can to bring you know, fun to
the to the city. Our mantra is fun. How can
we have more fun? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
You got well, yeah, Randy, I was trying to count
them up and then that's what I came up with.
Nineteen basic night spots there. But yeah, give us the
macro view and maybe talk about a couple of the darlings.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Yeah, definitely. So you know, we started down at Foxwoods
in Connecticut and we now have six properties there. You know,
just a few months ago we opened our second Grace
by Nia at Foxwoods and that was cool because that
was coming off of Grace Bynia in Seaport, which was
a new you know partnership between us Big Knight and
Nia Grace, you know, who's amazing in the city of
(37:09):
Boston and bringing sort of this jazz R and B
supper club to both the Seaport and Boston and now
down to Foxwood. So that's the newest, coolest. But you know,
we have Shrine down at Fox's Big night Club, and
then in Boston it's really Big night Live, Grand and
Memoir are the three big crown jewels of nightlife, you know,
(37:33):
concert Hall at Big night Live capacity of two thousand people,
the Grand amazing nightclub in the Seaport thousand people. That one,
that one the country's best nightclub in twenty nineteen when
we first opened, which you know had never happened before
for a Boston night spot. Usually it was Vegas or
New York or Miami. And then we were fortunate to
(37:53):
partner would Win Company and open Memoir inside on Core
Boston Harbor in gu into twenty nineteen and that's been
a Blast, and then we have a ton of restaurants
that have nightlife in it too, between Empire and the Seaport,
Mystique and Encore Boston Harbor. We have three Scorpion Bars,
one in the Seaport, one down at Patriot Place where
(38:15):
the Patriots play, and then one at Foxwood, so a
little bit of everything. We have a bowling alley down
in Fox's called High Rollers, the most luxurious bowling alley
you'll ever see. We've built it as if it was
going to be in the Bolagio in Las Vegas. And
the newest of new we're opening Basement, a new little
night spot in the basement of the w Hotel in
(38:37):
the Theater District and it's going to be this new
underground dance music club and we're super excited.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
That is fantastic. I want you to know that Grace
is my favorite restaurant. By the way.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
I just have to say, it's so cool and it's magical.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
It is it is. It is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Are you allowed to take any time off, Randy, Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
My favorite thing in life is to work. I don't
work a day in my life because look at all
this fun that we're doing.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yeah, that's so good, and.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I'm just so excited to just work and put out
this product. And you know, we probably do about fifty
thousand people a week through our doors. And that's my
favorite part of the job, is, you know, providing entertainment
for you know, the city of Boston and beyond. This
is where I grew up up in Lynnfield, mass And
so this is my home. This is Ed and Joe
(39:29):
Caine's home. They grew up in Boston and Dorchester. So
you know, this is this is why we do it.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Well, Randy, we're a business show. So let's take a
look at this from a business perspective. Compare you know,
where we are in twenty twenty four as compared to
where we were maybe a year ago or two. How
is business here in the city.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Yeah, it's it's been a fascinating business. Run. Twenty twenty
four is one hundred percent down, not actually literally twenty
plus percent down. So from a literal gross revenue perspective,
we're down twenty percent, but we're still you know, cranking,
and we have a diversitified portfolio. But you know, pandemic obviously,
(40:13):
of Mark twenty twenty, we had to close most of
our places weren't really open till mid twenty twenty one,
especially the bigger night life spots that had restrictions. So
from mid twenty twenty one, like June to through twenty
twenty two, that was a year and a half of
numbers we've never seen before, right, people penned up, people
(40:33):
that had you know, didn't spend money, so whatever money
they were making, they were saving, and obviously the government
assistant stuff. And then twenty twenty three kind of came
a little bit back to reality as we were comparing
those numbers more than twenty nineteen than anything. And now
twenty twenty four has been the most challenging, you know,
six to seven months of my career for sure, even
(40:57):
more than two thousand and eight. You know, crash and
other things, and there's just a lot going on, a
lot of reasons, and you know, definitely inflation is the
number one reason being able to afford your groceries and
your gas and your transportation and your parking and your electricity.
Holy craft, that's that's almost two x what everything is.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
So how do you deal with it? Randy? How do
you how do you how do you deal with the
softness in the market right now.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
That is such a good question, Joe, And that is
something we live every day, and you can only live
one day at a time, and you know, plan the
best you can and and do the best you can.
You know, we're making less money obviously, we're less profitable
currently due to all the high expenses and you know,
labors up and and everything's up. And the best you
(41:45):
can do is control your expenses. You know, I always
say in all of our profit and loss meetings, there's
only two there's only two options in business. Generate more
revenue or spend less unexpensive and so you know we're
working on both of those, generating more revenue and to
a degree that's somewhat out of our control. You know,
we can't control all customer behavior. We we have the
(42:07):
best operation and we're trying to be the most hospitable
company and hospitality that we can be and provide a fun,
amazing experience every time someone walks through the door. But
we also can't control the fact that a lot of
people are staying in more and door dashing and uber eating, yeah,
you know, doing other things than spending their hard earned
(42:28):
dollars on entertainment, because that's sometimes the first thing that
you can slash from your personal budget.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Let me just jump in real quickly here as we
start to run out of time. Is the fall a
better time for the hospitality industry?
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Yes, we are so looking forward to the fall, especially
in this market, you know, being in Massachusetts, being in
the epicenter of all higher education and seeing approximately four
hundred thousand you know, college kids come back and you know,
a few hundred thousand of them being twenty one plus. Yes,
and you know, yeah, I mean I hope they come
(43:02):
back this fall with money. It's always a jolt for
the city. And you know, I just don't know what
everyone has for money these days, because it's just not
easy out there. But yeah, where we are so excited
for the fall. Q four is always our best. October, November, December,
you know, September actually, for the first couple of weeks
(43:22):
are slow while everyone's kind of getting settled back, even
if you're not a student settling into your college, you know,
just families and you know, your lives and your kids'
lives and all that stuff. So yeah, the first two
weeks are transition weeks, and then once we hit mid
September through New Year's Eve, which is New Year's Eve,
(43:43):
and Halloween are our two most profitable nights of the year,
and so we look forward to both October thirty first
and December thirty first.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, listen, Randy, We're going to check in with you
after we get through that Halloween, you know, bonanza and
see if hospitality is on the rise. Randy Greenstein, we
thank you so much for being a part of the
show today. All right, Joe, still coming your way. CEO
of M and T Bank is our guest, Renee Jones.
This is the New England Business Report.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
You are listening to the New England Business Report on
the Voice of Boston WRKO six 't eighty Joe and
Kim will be right back.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
This is Joe short sleeve of the New England Business Report.
I'm WRKO. I'm joined by Sam Lang of Rabino and
Lang Wealth Partners. Sam. Why is it so urgent to
ensure our retirement plan works for us and is free
of mistakes?
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Very important, Joe.
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in retirement plan. We know that you want to be
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with you, taking the time to understand in your unique situation,
(45:01):
we create customized strategies to help you pursue your retirement goals.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
All right, you've got my attention. How can we start
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Speaker 3 (47:42):
And welcome back to the New England Business Report on
this Sunday morning, the first of September.
Speaker 5 (47:47):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
You know, I guess we can say we saved the
best for last. We're gonna have a conversation now with
the CEO of M and T Bank. And he's a
local kid. It's a local story. He grew up in
the air, Massachusetts. He went to Boston College. I mean,
does it get any more local than that? And Wikipedia,
(48:08):
as of twenty twenty two has them as one of
four black CEOs in the Fortune five hundred. We've had
Renee on our program when Kim and I hosted a
Bloomberg program before, and we welcome him back. We want
to find out what M and t' has been up
to over the past couple of years. Renee Jones, good morning, Hey, good.
Speaker 7 (48:26):
Morning Joe, Good morning Kim. It's great to be here
with you today.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, so let let's just start with M and T Bank,
your footprint here in Massachusetts, give our listeners out there
a macro view of who and what you are.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
Sure, you know, we think of ourselves as relatively unique
in terms of banking. You know, we believe that M
and T is really in the business of improving communities,
and our goal is to try to make a difference
in people's lives. And we often sort of say that,
you know, we just happen to know a little bit
about finance, but that's not the only way we improve communities. So,
(49:06):
you know, I think the best way to describe it
is every day, what M ANDT feels like is is
we constantly try to be a small bit of the
glue that binds the institutions that make up a community together.
So we participate with the not for profits, the culturals,
the education and educational institutes, religious government organizations, all of
(49:29):
the groups that traditionally come together to solve problems in
a community, and that's where we build our trust. And
as we found over decades, being part of the community
when they need you is what actually allows us to
produce pretty strong financial results as well.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
You know, Rene, I love that concept. And I know
you gave us a few examples, but give me give
us a story, you know about maybe something that you
guys have been involved in that you loved.
Speaker 7 (49:56):
Oh wow, I mean, you know, there's so many things,
in part because we've got twenty two thousand employees and
we take their lead. So the things that they find
to be most interesting, the causes that they love to support,
are the things that we tend to get behind and
put some energy to. So just recently, you know, I
(50:17):
think of the Boys and Girls Club efforts that actually
we've been involved in for you know, not just too
probably an excess of five or six years in Boston,
and then over the last three years we were just
chatting a little bit about the pan and Mass Challenge.
We loved the Panamas Challenge when we first saw it,
we said, well, it's a bike ride, but then we
realized it was cancer and it was something that affected
(50:40):
everybody's lives. And so we've rallied around it. And not
only are our employees and customers in Massachusetts engaged in it,
people have started to travel from Buffalo and Baltimore and
New Jersey to come up to the ride because it's
such a great cause. So those are two great examples.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Talking with Renee Jones, he is the CEO of M
and T Bank, uh, and we're talking about, well, their
footprint here in Massachusetts. But I'm really curious Rene, because
when we talk to folks, who are, you know, saying
what are on business's minds these days? It all comes
back to this AI question.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
And when I talk about the banking sector, they always
say the most expensive thing on a CEO's desk is
you know, how to keep up with the high tech
banking moving forward. Talk to us a little bit about
what you see in terms of the high tech future
of M and T. How important that piece obviously is,
but and then this whole AI piece.
Speaker 7 (51:36):
Yeah, sure, you know, advancements in technology and data, the
level of innovation and entrepreneurism is really changing the world
in pretty dramatic ways. And the banking industry is not
any different there, you.
Speaker 6 (51:51):
Know, M and T.
Speaker 7 (51:53):
The approach that we take to tech is maybe a
little different. We think of tech as an enabler of
human talent, and in fact that you can go back
Paul Romer, who won a Nobel Prize in twenty eighteen,
talks a lot about his work, talked a lot about
how the world was too focused on physical assets and
(52:13):
the value created by physical assets and not the personal
relationships in between in the middle of them. And so
you know, at M and T we tend not to
talk about technology. We talk about technologists. We don't talk
about data. We talk about data scientists, you know. And
as a result of that is we think that it's
important to attract the best talent because it's those individuals
(52:36):
who can ensure that the changes that are coming that
we haven't seen yet are brought to bear right and
that we're always tying those changes in technology into our mission.
So today we have over two thousand, probably twenty five
hundred technologists. We have fifteen hundred technologists alone in our
(52:56):
tech hub in Buffalo, and really we're they're all focused
on preparing us for the future enhancements that exist. You know,
people often ask us, is technology and particularly AI going
to get rid of the branches physical branches our views know,
and we base that on this long history of every
time there's innovation coming, whether it be the the ATM,
(53:19):
the web, mobile banking, or now real time payments, what
we find is our customers add those and use more,
but they never drop the technology. They're looking for lots
of options to make to make things really convenient for them.
So I think, you know, as you look at it today,
we're using AI in some really practical places. We're using
(53:39):
it to protect our customers from fraud and cyber crime,
We're using it to more have more personalized experiences. We're
reducing costs in our back office. So you know, we
really see technology as a way to bring our people
closer to our customers.
Speaker 6 (53:57):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (53:57):
And that's that's what we'll continue to do and the
way will continue to invest in technology.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Let me take you in a little bit of different direction,
if you don't mind, Renee. Earlier in this show, we
were talking to an executive in hospitality and we were
comparing the last couple of years really interesting conversation because
he said the twenty twenty four so far has been
a really tough year. You know, they went back after
(54:24):
COVID to twenty nineteen numbers and now they have dropped.
Talk to us about where you see the economy here
in New England and what you're anticipating for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7 (54:36):
I guess I start by saying, is that we think,
you know, New England is an incredible place at the
begin with. So yes, if you start step back and
think we've got macro, we've got a slowing global economy,
we've got wars and violence, particularly in the Middle East,
and there's a fair amount of uncertainty out there. But
at the same time we think that around innovation and
(55:01):
the things that are actually happening, there's a really bright,
bright future and a bright future for the New England economy.
I think first and foremost, I mean New England has
got opportunities that lots of other communities do not. It's
a national global health innovation. I think we saw this
real time and that during the pandemic when New England's
(55:22):
biotech and the life science ecosystem activated to you know,
to help us solve the global threat, right, And then
it's not just companies. It's not just companies. We've got
this incredible ability to attract the brightest minds in the
world to come into our our universities and our hospital systems.
Speaker 6 (55:41):
Right.
Speaker 7 (55:41):
So the foundation of what we have in New England
is really extraordinary. I'm a big champion of all of
our communities, but I will tell you that it's very
impressive to come into Massachusetts and see what the opportunities
are if you look at beyond like eastern Massachusetts, for example,
did you know that we're like one of the leading
(56:03):
regions for food science. UMass is actually the top agricultural
science university in the country, and it's top ten worldwide. So,
for example, we have lots of companies that are out there,
and not just in Eastern Massachusetts but in western Massachusetts
and in Vermont and in Connecticut who are all geared
around the food supply chain and ensuring that not just
(56:27):
for people in the US, but around globally, so we
go through ebbs and flows. Clearly, the hospitality business right
now is seeing a bit of a decline because rates
are high and spending is starting to slow, but that
will bounce back and what's really optimistic is that the
amount of innovation and the talent that we've got in
(56:47):
our region will help even change and create more opportunities
for hospitality as well and all the industries that we
have in our region.
Speaker 3 (56:58):
Unfortunately, when I were down about thirty seconds here, So
did the CEO get any time off this summer?
Speaker 8 (57:05):
I did?
Speaker 7 (57:06):
I did. I spent it on the cape with my
family and my uh love.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
That two daughters love to hear that. All right. He's
he's Renee Jones and he is the CEO of M
and T Bank and we're glad he could visit us
today on the New England Business Report.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Well that's going to do it for this edition of
the New England Business Report. Joe coming up next week.
I'm looking forward to this. We're gonna chat with Jim Rude.
Speaker 3 (57:31):
It's always a great conversation. Jim tells the truth and
that's why we have him back. And you know, sometimes
the truth hurts, but.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
You know, yeah, you never know what's going to come
out of Jim's mouth. Course, ahead of the Chamber of
Commerce here in Boston, So Jim will be our guest
next week. In the meantime, everybody enjoyed the first week
of September, and we will see you right back here
for the New England Business Report next Sunday, right here
on w r KO.
This is the New England Business Report with Joe Shortsleeve
and Kim Carrigan, a weekly round up and discussion of
the top business news impacting our New England economy.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome everybody to the New England Business Report. I'm Kim
Kerrigan along with Joe short Good morning, Happy September.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Happens, It happened. There's no going back now.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh gosh, Labor Day weekend. I just can't believe. I mean, honestly,
we talk about this every week, but I really cannot
get over how quickly. And I'm not the only one,
and you're not the only one. No, no, everybody I talked
to you says the same thing.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's the kids are going back
to school, and oh my.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Do you have grandchildren who are in school yet?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I do. In fact, I have a five year old
at is starting kindergarten. So and of course she went
into kindergarten the first day and you met the new
teacher and the whole bit, and you know, so far,
so good, though, so fast, excelent.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
One of the things that really bothers me is that
the kids go back beforehand, and it's so hard to
get him adjusted and get them in there. They're off
for four or five days, you know, with Labor Day,
and you have to sort of mom has to sort
of peel them off again. On the other side, Well,
we've got a great show for you today, folks, and
we're so glad that you can be with us. Let's
take a look at some of the things coming up.
(01:15):
By the way, sometime really is still summer, so it
does not end until the twenty second.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
So well, you're going to hold your feet to them.
What do they call it? Meteorological fall is September, October,
and November. You don't have to use two words. So
here we are. We are a meteorological fall. We are
king leaves, folks. Get those pumpkins out all right.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Joining us today first is Don Seifert. He's the managing
editor of the Boston Business Journal. He's going to talk
to us a little bit about the fact that there's
a federal possible federal law out there that would put
huge restrictions in maybe even band Chinese own biotechs in
this country. I think it's pretty obvious Joe, why this
(01:57):
is a good idea, Because you know, if you and
you have companies that have the ability to share this
kind of information with China, there starts to be question marks.
But there's also a question mark for the state of
Massachusetts because we depend heavily on research and development and
some of these companies that are owned by the.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, I know, and everybody is saying, well, it could,
you know, really impact him in the short term, but
I think the long term, you know. And everybody's asking
the same question here, saying, you know, shouldn't we really
be doing this on our own anyway, regardless if it's
China or not, I mean anyway, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So that's coming up with Don here in just a
few minutes. Also, we're going to be joined this morning
by Jeff Myers. He's an old friend of ours from
Colliers who joined us frequently on the Bloomberg Show. He's
the research director there at Colliers, and we're going to
talk to him about lab space. Yeah, they speaking of biotecht.
We're going to talk about lab space here in Massachusetts,
(02:55):
you know, before the pandemic and then just shortly thereafter
or it seemed like this was the booming industry in
the state.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
On the Bloomberg Show we did together, we talked about
it all the time, more lab space, more lab spe
how far it could go.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Absolutely converting. They were converting buildings, you know, to lab space,
and now suddenly a lot of that lab space stands empty.
So we're going to talk to him about where we
stand when it comes to lab space and commercial real estate.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
We're going to end today's program with a pretty special guest.
A local kid grew up in the Air, Massachusetts, went
to Boston College. Today. He's the CEO of M and
T Bank, Renee Jones, and there, of course a big
sponsor of mass Challenge. You see their green signs everywhere.
He's going to talk to us a little bit about
(03:43):
the future of banking, what does it mean and this
you know, this technology at this point? Do we need
the brick and mortar banks anymore? And where do I do?
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What you do I do?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
How often do you go in?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I do pretty much all my banking in my cool
Why is that? Because I'm an app?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Do you deposit checks on your phone?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Nope?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I just told you? I mean, do I have to
explain this more? I just figured out what my password
is so I can check my accounts. I know, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
This is probably another topic for another day. But anyway,
we're gonna be talking with Renee Jones and maybe he
can help Kim. Probably gonna have to assign a personal banker.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I may be lost, may be unhelpable.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, anyway, what else we got? Oh boy, We've got
a lot happening in today's program. And before Renee, we're
actually gonna be chatting with Chelsea Martin, owner of Honey
Pot Orchards out there in Stone, Massachusetts. It's apple picking season.
Of course, since it's a now September first, and I've
been out there a number of times. It's a great spot.
(04:54):
I mean, just don't go at eleven am on a
Saturday morning. The whole planet Earth has arrived. But it's
a beautiful spot. And we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
The business, huge industry in this state, you know. I
mean they look forward to September first, No two ways
about that. I look forward to the donuts.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah. Oh, and they have like a little store there.
That's episode And also on the program today we talk
about Big Night Entertainment. We're going to meet with the
talk with Randy Greenstein. He's one of the co owners.
I guess they had what did he say nineteen or
twenty venues. Why venues twenty venues?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This guy is busy, but they own the world.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, but he said, you know, this is a business program.
So we ask him the business question, and he, you know,
sort of surprised Kim and I with a very honest answer.
He said, twenty twenty four in the nightclub business at
this point not so good. Yeah, not so good. So
he talks a little bit about you know why and
where you go from here.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, we are happy today to be welcoming Don Seifert
of the managing editor of the Boston Business Journal with us,
and Don, good to have you with us on this
Labor Day weekend. Kids going back to school? You said
next week.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Right of course?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, oh boy, where did the summer go?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Are you singing that song and statement this is the
most wonderful time with the year or.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Yeah, uh yeah, I'm not I'm not crying about the
fact that you.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Don You guys had a cover story that you wanted
to chat about, and this is related to Chinese owned
biotech going on in the city and that there's there's
gonna be some restrictions. Talk to us a little bit
about what this might mean for some local businesses.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Yeah, yeah, what this is this is actually a federal
a federal band that could go into effect. It's been
discussed in Congress for a little while now, and it
basically grows out of this concern of Chinese owned biotechs.
A lot of local biotechs.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (06:51):
You know, drug developers rely on contract researchers and contract manufacturers.
You know that's too, you know, to make their drugs,
are to help them with testing. And this legislation is
you know, it's called the Biosecure Act. And one of
the one of the earlier co sponsors was was Jake
an ol Can closs is how to pross his name
(07:13):
from Newton Congressman yep. And but you know, it grew
out of security concerns just that you know that that
sharing Americans genetic information and are you know, cutting edge
biologic information with with companies that are you know, ostensibly
controlled by the Chinese government or very well could be
(07:35):
and you know, might be a security risk. And so
this legislation is thought to ban relationships.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
It had not gone into effect yet, but some some
of the industry are already kind of worried about what
would happen if it does.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, well, don wouldn't it be better at the end
of the day, if we local companies did this, especially
here in New England and the United States, did this
on their own that we didn't rely on, say, Chinese companies.
Speaker 6 (07:59):
Yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Mean, yes, it makes a lot of sense. I mean,
there's very valid concern about this, but I mean it
turns out there are some local companies that are Chinese owned,
that are you know, as some local drug developers told us,
that are basically very good at what they do. They're
you know, they're very good at doing these tests or
doing these manufacturing and we don't have enough you know,
(08:21):
locally based ones really to supply all of this. You know,
this is the kind of you know, when you think
about the biotech sector. Obviously this is a huge sector
from Massachusetts and what you know, the ones that get
all the attention, uh, you know, our editorial cars bout
the rock stars of biotech are like the drug developers.
These these contract researchers and manufacturers are more like the roadies.
(08:44):
So they're they're the ones who are hired, but they're
they're essential to the running of this. And yeah, I
mean It would be great if we had enough that
that were local.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
But but currently we don't.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
And that's why a lot of companies do really on
these Chinese owned companies so done.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
What would be the reality for patients if in fact
this happens.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Well, what what the the you know, mass Bile, the
industry lobbying group. You know, they argue that, you know,
I mean, the one they understand what they need for.
So it's not they're arguing against that that they think
this shouldn't pass, but they are saying this is going
to be a big hardship, you know, as far as
patients go. I mean, yeah, it could very well slow
down innovation. It could slow down the testing, the bringing
(09:25):
of these kind of important medicines to patients. I mean,
it could slow down the whole industry economically, you know,
for mass chu Is obviously this is a huge industry
for US is what Boston is known for worldwide, and
and you know it could it could slow down the
pace in which we were able to do that kind
of stuff in the US.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Talking with Don Seifert, he's a managing editor of the
Boston Business Journal, and I guess, Don, this sort of
brings us back to Governor morro Heally and here economic
development package up there on Beacon Hill, which didn't make
it past the July thirty first deadline. Uh, and I
guess there's one hundred to millions of dollars in there
that could maybe address this issue.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Well, yeah, there's you know, one big part or one
of the biggest parts of the economic Development package that
Governor Healy proposed is this reauthorization of the Life Sciences
Initiative that was started by Duval Patrick now fifteen years ago.
You know, we have put I think it was like
five hundred million dollars into it. The Senate only wanted
(10:24):
to put less than half that into it, and you
couldn't decide or couldn't agree on a on number, and
it just didn't pass. So that money, a lot of
that money is earmarked for bio manufacturing and for UH
and for increasing our contract our research capabilities. So so yeah,
I mean one step that that mass Bio has said
(10:44):
is kind of important is, you know, can we just
pass this this funding for life sciences the initiative and
that would help increase our capacity, make you know, make
it better, uh, you know, more attractive for Massachusetts for
these drug manufact et, UH contractors and UH and and
that would at least get us ready if this does
(11:06):
actually pass the federal government, this band goes into effect.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
And how quickly might that pass? Don? What kind of
track is it on?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
I mean the federal one? Yes, yeah, I was just
checking on that. It is unclear. I mean, you know,
this is federal and it's an election year, so it's
definitely not happening before November, right, I would you know,
it's apparently it has passed both the committees and the
House and the Senate on Capitol Hill, but it has
not passed the full you know, hasn't been approved by
either of the full Senate or House. So I would
(11:35):
think next year that's minimal and and you know, well
it could well change before then too. But but you know,
I gu said, I mean there is valid concern over
over sharing this kind of information with companies that that
you know, share their information with China.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
You bet, Don, Teifer, thanks so very much for your
time this morning. Interesting story. Will keep an eye on
that because that really the impact here in this state
could be great. Okay, so come in your way. Jeff
Myers from he's a research director from a collegers. He's
going to join us. He's going to talk to us
about commercial real estate in the state, and most specifically,
(12:10):
we're going to talk to him about lab space. As
we talk about these kinds of things, it's interesting. We've
talked about lab space a lot, and boy there was
a big boom. But guess what, folks, things are going backward.
Apparently you're listening to the New England Business Report.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
You are listening to the New England Business Report on
the Voice of Boston WRKO six point eighty. Joe and
Kim will be right back.
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Speaker 2 (14:39):
Hi, everybody, I'm Kim Kerrigan.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
And I'm Joe Shortsley. If you want to be part
of the New England Business Report, sponsorships are still available.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
You can email us at Any Business Radio at gmail
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That's Any Business Radio all one word at gmail dot
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Speaker 1 (15:05):
The New England Business Report on w RKO is brought
to you in part by Leader Bank, Modern Banking with
a personal touch.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And welcome back to the New England Business Report. On
this Sunday morning, Joke shorts lived here with Kim Carrigan.
I'm gonna talk about a topic near and dear to
Kim and myself. I mean, over the years, we all
watched it happen, this explosion of lab space in Boston.
On one hand, it was just great because you know,
our economy here and the biotech economy was so strong
and everybody was looking for lab space. But you know
(15:36):
it's Kim and I did the program at Bloomberg years ago.
We asked the question, okay, so you know how we're
going pretty We're really kind of going overboard here, folks,
aren't we?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And I guess we eventually we did. So anyway, there's
an article here. It was actually I want to give
credit where credits due to John Chester the Boston Globe,
and he headline was by one key measure. Boston's lab
market is in rough shape as the pandemic battered office
market amid a wave of new construction and an industry
slow down, The vacancy rate for life science buildings has
(16:07):
exploded in recent years, and John spoke with Jeff Myers
as about this story. Jeff Myers, of course, is the
research director for Collier's International here in Boston, someone that
Kim and I are very familiar with, and we welcome
Jeff back to the program today. Jeff, okay, take us
through this. What's going on with the lab market in Boston.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Well, the lab.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
Market in Boston has certainly seen better days. It's getting
hit on a couple of different fronts, and one of
them that just touched on. There's a lot of construction
taking place, to the point that there's so much construction
that either recently delivered or underway that the demand in
the marketplace can't keep up with all of the deliveries,
and as a result, vacancy to have shot up rapidly
(16:54):
and there's more space than we had on the market
ever before.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So where did this disconnect happen?
Speaker 6 (17:01):
I think it started back in twenty twenty one twenty two.
Back then we had a really hot lab market. If
you think about what was happening at that time, there
was lots of venture capitals flowing into the sector. Stock
prices were high, so there was a great exit. Lots
of money was slowing into these companies, and there was
lots of absorption, lots of demand. And at that time,
(17:22):
vacancies went down to about one percent, which means around
the entire Boston market there was only a couple of
one hundred thousand square feet of lab space available in
a given quarter. And of course, when developer see that
for rent to go up, and when investors see that,
they want to buy in. And as they all bought
in and started to develop and convert more projects and
(17:42):
put more turn more dirt, unfortunately that demand side got
a lot weaker. And now what we're experiencing is the
ramnifications of that demand isn't zero, but is not as
strong as it was. But with millions of square feet delivering,
vacancies have gone from about that one percent besolved Back
in late twenty one early twenty twenty two to about
(18:04):
twenty one and a half percent today. That's a twenty
percentage point increase in vacancy is in only a couple
of years. And that couple of one hundred thousand square
feet of vacant space, well, now there's more than eleven
million square feet of space available across the market.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Jeff Myers our guess, a research director for Collier's International. Well,
you know, I guess the next question there is okay,
so what is that doing to rents and how closely
can you even track that? Are not knowledgeable? Are you
about it?
Speaker 6 (18:32):
Yeah? Well, rents, I'm back in the height of the market.
Every time you looked at the month or a quarter,
rents went up. And so in places like East Cambridge
you might have started off at ninety, then one under
it in one, ten, one, twenty five and a couple
of deals may be even closed above there there is
a lot less upward pressure on rents now. In fact,
(18:53):
with eight million square feet of direct space and three
million square feet of subway space, it's firmly a tenant's market.
So if you're a tenant right now, you're not going
into a market where you have to lease something and
wait for it to deliver in two or three years.
You're not going into a situation where you have to
lease space defensively or more than you need at that
point in time, just to make sure you have room
(19:13):
to grow. Now, you can go into the market and say, hey,
I like this submarket or that submarket existing construction or conversion,
or you could even say I want to go into
a building that has spec suits built ready for me,
or that's sublease, so I can get in there as
quickly as possible and get to doing the research that
I really want to do.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, Jeff, what are you going to what's going to
happen to all of this space if it's not rented out?
Because this is very specific and it was relatively expensive
to build it out.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
Correct, that's very correct, I'm kim. When we think about
other property types out there, they're experiencing high vacancies, like
the office market in Boston. If you're one of those
older Class B buildings, you might get pegged for conversion
to student housing or apartments or a hotel or something
like that. But given the basis that a lot of
these new ad buildings are in that mass just gets
(20:06):
a little bit harder to work. Unfortunately, when you look
at the Boston market from a long term perspective, we
have a lot of great demand drivers to keep life
science companies wanting to locate here. Between twenty nineteen and
twenty twenty twenty three, the Boston market as a whole
absorbed about thirteen million square feet of life science space.
(20:28):
That thirteen million square feed in that five year period
is more than what most other whole metros did across
the country, and so all it may take a while
to get vacancies to come down through absorption. I think
that it will happen over time.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Jeff put it in perspective a little bit in terms
of we're talking about lab space, but you also track
just straight up commercial space in downtown Boston. Perhaps you
could compare and contrast the two as we're talking about
downtown Boston or the Metro one twenty eight as well.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
So when I'm thinking about the Boston office market, the
city of Boston, we have an overall vacancy rate of
about twenty two to twenty three percent, and the overall
life science making serator is just below that at about
twenty one and a half percent. Now the Boston office
market did not get as tight now one percent we
mentioned before as the office market did E gives me
the office market got down to in the maybe around
(21:21):
ten to thirteen percent or so, which was really healthy
for the office market. There was absorption taking place. The
difference on the office side is there has been some construction.
We do have some new empty space that's out there.
Look at properties like Winthrop Center or the fact that
the South Station Tower hasn't had any major announcement yet.
But the bigger problem there has been absorption and negative
(21:43):
demand and folks working from home that is really rhed
on that recovery prospect. So on that side of the ledger,
I'd be more concerned about those office buildings and figuring
out what they're going to do than on the life
science side, where I do think that the demand story
is a little bit easier to envision.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Let's just talk about it. You just mentioned it a
little bit, but let's just talk about commercial real estate
as a whole. Certainly there has been some suffering related
to commercial real estate in the Bust area and across
the state. How are we doing overall?
Speaker 6 (22:14):
I think overall we are heading towards a position where
owners that are in a place of distress. Those could
be owners that bought at a high market rate and
now because of elevated interest rates and they're changing cap rates,
properties aren't worth as much as they were before. Makes
it harder to sell. Maybe there's a construction loancoming do
that they're having to address, and it's harder to refinance
(22:36):
into that higher rate. I think we're going to start
to see more of those properties start to move through
the market and transact, And indeed, in places like downtown
Bossing and some suburban communities, we are starting to see
those properties start to move through and and find buyers
and sellers meeting in the marketplace. I think we're going
to need to get more of that. And next month,
if the fit doesn't the lower interest rates, I think
(22:56):
that'll help degrees the wills to get some of those
transactions going, but it doesn't solve the issue overall of
I'm looking at the commercial real estate landscape in Boston.
I think office is really probably the most distressed, and
there's probably the most concern about where it's going to
go live. Science is really up there. But I do
think we can see a path out the apartment market
fundamentally is in pretty good condition, but it still has
(23:19):
to deal with those same capital market issues. Vacancies are
rising and industrial. But I think the demand story there
is actually pretty good as well, and I don't think
that that's going to get so out of black as
it has in the office, in life science and markets.
In retail, it kind of depends on where you are.
If you're in a good retail location, we have seen
some demands starting to arise. Look at all of that's
the traffic and activity in the Seapork. However, we're in
(23:42):
some other submarkets, we do still see vacancies in some
of them all than some of our urban shopping corridors.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, that was Kim shopping in the seaport. That's what
you saw there. Yeah. Jeff Myers, a research director for
Kyllier's International here in Boston. Thanks very much, Very insightful
and makes you wonder, you know when this will start
to turn the other direction. But anyway, if anybody's going
to know it or see it, it'll be the folks
(24:09):
over there at Collier's Up next. How about this. It's September,
so it's time to go apple picking. Let's go out
to Stowe, Massachusetts and honey pot Orchards. We'll talk with
the owner of that property out there. Chelsea Martin. You're
listening to the New England Business Support.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Kim and Joe. We'll explore more business news that impacts
our New England economy when they return.
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This is Joe Shortsleeve of the New England Business Report
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Lang Wealth Partners. Sam. Why is it so urgent to
ensure our retirement plan works for us and is free
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Speaker 7 (26:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Very important, Joe.
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in retirement planning. We know that you want to be
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we create customized strategies to help you pursue your retirement goals.
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All right, you've got my attention. How can we start
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Speaker 3 (27:15):
Com and welcome back to the New England Business Report
on this Sunday morning. Yeah okay, so Kim, it's time
to go apple picking.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
No, it's great. And you know there's one place I
always go and it's honeypothill Orchards out there a Stowe, Massachusetts,
and it's it's just a beautiful spot and you know,
unfortunately a lot of people know about it, so fuck
that the whole planet shows up on you know, Saturday morning.
But anyway, let's bring in Chelsea Martin. She is a
well fourth generation owner of honeypothill Orchards. It's one hundred
(27:52):
and eighty six acres out there and Stowe, Massachusetts. Chelsea Martin,
welcome to the program. How are you today?
Speaker 10 (28:00):
Thanks so much for having you guys. I'm doing pretty well.
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 3 (28:04):
We're good. You know we're a business program is apple picking?
You know? Your quarter is this? Is this a quarter
of the year that Honey pot hill Orchards makes their money?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (28:14):
Yes, we actually do most of our business in about
six weeks. We're trying really hard to spread it out
a little bit more, but New England really likes this tradition,
so we are firmly fall and between August, September and
October we do about eighty percent of our business.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
So it's September one, Chelsea. How do the apples look
right now?
Speaker 10 (28:37):
We're really lucky this year. Last year was a bit tough.
This year the crops looking phenomenal. We have teaches, which
all of New England was very excited about after last
year we lost them. But and the crop we had
one week of frost, but we made it through just fine,
and the crop looks really good. We've got a lot
(28:57):
of really good looking apples. We've got a lot of
really good looking honey crisp, which always the favorite of
the pupil, so we're very excited. It should be a
good year.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Give us a macro view of honey pothill orchards out there.
Speaker 10 (29:09):
And still we do a lot here. We say we
sell fall, so we we're here for your pumpkins, your
apple needs. We grow all of the stuff that we
sell and we don't really sell to grocery stores, so
you know, we try to be a family place. We
bring people out to enjoy the property and as you said,
(29:30):
you know in your intro, we really appreciate it's the
beautiful spot rolling hills. Some of our trees are over
seventy five years old, so we're one of the last
places of those big, old standard New England apple trees
that you just love to look at.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Chelsea, I realized that the fall is sort of your
super Bowl. But what happens there at honeypot the rest
of the year.
Speaker 10 (29:50):
Such a good question. People always ask me how my
winter vacation is. And actually my dad and I work
five to seven days a week year round. So we
have thirty two thousand trees here and we've proven them
all by hand. So we spend most of the winter
out in a tree, which is actually nice if you
if you've ever worked in retail after about six months,
(30:11):
going into a tree and having no one talk to
you for six months is not a bad way to live.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So, Chelsea, are you Is it all rainbows and unicorns
at this point? I mean, we've this program. One of
the people we talked to, we talked to someone of
the entertainment world. They said, oh, business is down, it's
down twenty percent. I have a banker also concerned about
you know, where this economy is at this point? What
about you? Where are you on the new Engled economy
and how it impacts your business?
Speaker 10 (30:37):
I think we're about parts of the course. Farmers are
a bit pessimistic by nature, so we're just naturally never
happy the same as all We're always a little bit
worried for our crop. This is about the three weeks
of the year we get to enjoy because we're hopefully
out of the realm of hail, which does a lot
(30:58):
of damage to our crops. Over the suime, we have
to watch for thunderstorms. The one thing going forward is
rain on the weekends. But you know, most of it's
out of our control, and honestly, we're just grateful to
have a business and to have such a good customer base.
So it's not rainbows and sunshine. But I'll let the
(31:18):
bankers in the entertainment industry worry about what's out of
my control and hopefully we get a good enough fall
that's to pull through. Last year was terrible, so I'm
I'm honestly just happy to have a better year.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Why terrible? What was about last year that was terrible?
Speaker 10 (31:36):
We had a big freeze in May and a big
freeze in February, so a lot of our apples were
pretty damaged. And part of what we do here is
we're pretty obsessive growers. We like to sell good fruit,
so having a lot of damage fruit is sort of
demoralizing going into the season. And this year looks really nice,
(31:56):
so it's just it's just a brighter feeling going into harvest.
Having some good apples to sell.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I love that we're talking with Chelsea Martin. She is
the owner in her family has owned the Honey Pot
Hill orchards for more than one hundred years. So Chelsea,
talk to me about the fact that there are eighty
roughly eighty commercial apple farms in the state. I have
(32:23):
a feeling that hasn't been the case necessarily, or has
it since your family has owned those that property and
has been in this.
Speaker 10 (32:31):
Business, that number is low. Most of the apple orchards
in the state talk to each other. We're mostly family businesses,
and there's less and less of us all the time.
When my great grandfather bought this property, it was surrounded,
but I believe it or not, five other farms bordering it,
(32:54):
and all of those have gone out. We're the only
one remaining here. So it's a very tough business. I'm
not going to pretend like it's it's an easy thing
to get into or do, but uh, we are fighting hard,
all of us, to maintain, you know, what is a
(33:14):
way of life for us, and to provide a service
and good quality food to the people of Massachusetts. And
I know a lot of other farmers here feel the
same way.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Chelsea. What are your revenue revenue streams and what are
the top sellers?
Speaker 10 (33:28):
Uh, pick your own apples for us is very very big.
We also make a pretty killer sight or donut if
I do say so myself. We make those homemade here
every day, so that we do have the biggest hedge
mays in North America. So we have a couple of
hedgemases here and those so a lot of it, you know,
(33:49):
is low cost. So once we had the Hedgemae built,
it does bring in a pretty good revenue because all
of that was an upfront cost and once we planted
thousands of arbroviety by hand, that was a pretty big upfront.
But now that's established, it does make us some money.
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Absolutely, And tell us about the schedule. And well, let
me ask you before I ask you that, how many
employees do you have?
Speaker 10 (34:18):
How many employees do we have? Yes, so seasonally we
have two full time employees and then we have about
one hundred seasonal employees that we bring in for the
late summer in fall.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Wow, Okay, tell us about the schedule out there right now.
Speaker 10 (34:36):
So we're open daily from nine to six and then
daily four picking. We're doing blueberry and apple picking right
now from nine to five, and we continue that schedule
into November, and it's it's a long day. We usually start,
you know, between six six and then we'll work till
six or seven.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
All right. She's Chelsea Martin. She's one of the owners
there to Honeypot, hail Orchards and Stowe, Massachusetts. We do
appreciate you taking time and joining us today on the
New England Business Report.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well I'm telling you, Joe, can you believe it? Here
we are Labor Day weekend.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
There it comes, here come the tears.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I oh please, I'm telling you. The sun is coming
up so late. It's just such a disappointment. And you know,
we've got somewhere in the rear view. And I think
for a lot of folks who own restaurants and bars
and venues in the city, they actually look forward to
the fall because I think things really.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Oh yeah, the students come back with a pocketfull of money.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I'll spend this.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You got it exactly. So we wanted to just kind
of gauge, you know, where hospitality has been this summer
and where we're headed for the fall. And who better
to do that? With than with Randy Greenstein. He is
one of the co owners of Big Night, which Randy,
I am telling you every time I chat with one
of you guys, I just am blown away. You own Boston.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Well, thank you so much. I mean, it's been a
long run. We've been doing this well, my partner Adds
and doing it for thirty five plus years and we've
been partners for eighteen years. So it's it's it hasn't
been overnight, but over time in the last sixteen we've
built about twenty venues in and around Boston and Connecticut
(36:14):
and and then a few other companies during the during
the pandemic because all of our places were closed for
six to eighteen months. So yeah, we're just doing as
much as we can to bring you know, fun to
the to the city. Our mantra is fun. How can
we have more fun? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
You got well, yeah, Randy, I was trying to count
them up and then that's what I came up with.
Nineteen basic night spots there. But yeah, give us the
macro view and maybe talk about a couple of the darlings.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Yeah, definitely. So you know, we started down at Foxwoods
in Connecticut and we now have six properties there. You know,
just a few months ago we opened our second Grace
by Nia at Foxwoods and that was cool because that
was coming off of Grace Bynia in Seaport, which was
a new you know partnership between us Big Knight and
Nia Grace, you know, who's amazing in the city of
(37:09):
Boston and bringing sort of this jazz R and B
supper club to both the Seaport and Boston and now
down to Foxwood. So that's the newest, coolest. But you know,
we have Shrine down at Fox's Big night Club, and
then in Boston it's really Big night Live, Grand and
Memoir are the three big crown jewels of nightlife, you know,
(37:33):
concert Hall at Big night Live capacity of two thousand people,
the Grand amazing nightclub in the Seaport thousand people. That one,
that one the country's best nightclub in twenty nineteen when
we first opened, which you know had never happened before
for a Boston night spot. Usually it was Vegas or
New York or Miami. And then we were fortunate to
(37:53):
partner would Win Company and open Memoir inside on Core
Boston Harbor in gu into twenty nineteen and that's been
a Blast, and then we have a ton of restaurants
that have nightlife in it too, between Empire and the Seaport,
Mystique and Encore Boston Harbor. We have three Scorpion Bars,
one in the Seaport, one down at Patriot Place where
(38:15):
the Patriots play, and then one at Foxwood, so a
little bit of everything. We have a bowling alley down
in Fox's called High Rollers, the most luxurious bowling alley
you'll ever see. We've built it as if it was
going to be in the Bolagio in Las Vegas. And
the newest of new we're opening Basement, a new little
night spot in the basement of the w Hotel in
(38:37):
the Theater District and it's going to be this new
underground dance music club and we're super excited.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
That is fantastic. I want you to know that Grace
is my favorite restaurant. By the way.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
I just have to say, it's so cool and it's magical.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
It is it is. It is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Are you allowed to take any time off, Randy, Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
My favorite thing in life is to work. I don't
work a day in my life because look at all
this fun that we're doing.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yeah, that's so good, and.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I'm just so excited to just work and put out
this product. And you know, we probably do about fifty
thousand people a week through our doors. And that's my
favorite part of the job, is, you know, providing entertainment
for you know, the city of Boston and beyond. This
is where I grew up up in Lynnfield, mass And
so this is my home. This is Ed and Joe
(39:29):
Caine's home. They grew up in Boston and Dorchester. So
you know, this is this is why we do it.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Well, Randy, we're a business show. So let's take a
look at this from a business perspective. Compare you know,
where we are in twenty twenty four as compared to
where we were maybe a year ago or two. How
is business here in the city.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Yeah, it's it's been a fascinating business. Run. Twenty twenty
four is one hundred percent down, not actually literally twenty
plus percent down. So from a literal gross revenue perspective,
we're down twenty percent, but we're still you know, cranking,
and we have a diversitified portfolio. But you know, pandemic obviously,
(40:13):
of Mark twenty twenty, we had to close most of
our places weren't really open till mid twenty twenty one,
especially the bigger night life spots that had restrictions. So
from mid twenty twenty one, like June to through twenty
twenty two, that was a year and a half of
numbers we've never seen before, right, people penned up, people
(40:33):
that had you know, didn't spend money, so whatever money
they were making, they were saving, and obviously the government
assistant stuff. And then twenty twenty three kind of came
a little bit back to reality as we were comparing
those numbers more than twenty nineteen than anything. And now
twenty twenty four has been the most challenging, you know,
six to seven months of my career for sure, even
(40:57):
more than two thousand and eight. You know, crash and
other things, and there's just a lot going on, a
lot of reasons, and you know, definitely inflation is the
number one reason being able to afford your groceries and
your gas and your transportation and your parking and your electricity.
Holy craft, that's that's almost two x what everything is.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
So how do you deal with it? Randy? How do
you how do you how do you deal with the
softness in the market right now.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
That is such a good question, Joe, And that is
something we live every day, and you can only live
one day at a time, and you know, plan the
best you can and and do the best you can.
You know, we're making less money obviously, we're less profitable
currently due to all the high expenses and you know,
labors up and and everything's up. And the best you
(41:45):
can do is control your expenses. You know, I always
say in all of our profit and loss meetings, there's
only two there's only two options in business. Generate more
revenue or spend less unexpensive and so you know we're
working on both of those, generating more revenue and to
a degree that's somewhat out of our control. You know,
we can't control all customer behavior. We we have the
(42:07):
best operation and we're trying to be the most hospitable
company and hospitality that we can be and provide a fun,
amazing experience every time someone walks through the door. But
we also can't control the fact that a lot of
people are staying in more and door dashing and uber eating, yeah,
you know, doing other things than spending their hard earned
(42:28):
dollars on entertainment, because that's sometimes the first thing that
you can slash from your personal budget.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Let me just jump in real quickly here as we
start to run out of time. Is the fall a
better time for the hospitality industry?
Speaker 4 (42:42):
Yes, we are so looking forward to the fall, especially
in this market, you know, being in Massachusetts, being in
the epicenter of all higher education and seeing approximately four
hundred thousand you know, college kids come back and you know,
a few hundred thousand of them being twenty one plus. Yes,
and you know, yeah, I mean I hope they come
(43:02):
back this fall with money. It's always a jolt for
the city. And you know, I just don't know what
everyone has for money these days, because it's just not
easy out there. But yeah, where we are so excited
for the fall. Q four is always our best. October, November, December,
you know, September actually, for the first couple of weeks
(43:22):
are slow while everyone's kind of getting settled back, even
if you're not a student settling into your college, you know,
just families and you know, your lives and your kids'
lives and all that stuff. So yeah, the first two
weeks are transition weeks, and then once we hit mid
September through New Year's Eve, which is New Year's Eve,
(43:43):
and Halloween are our two most profitable nights of the year,
and so we look forward to both October thirty first
and December thirty first.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, listen, Randy, We're going to check in with you
after we get through that Halloween, you know, bonanza and
see if hospitality is on the rise. Randy Greenstein, we
thank you so much for being a part of the
show today. All right, Joe, still coming your way. CEO
of M and T Bank is our guest, Renee Jones.
This is the New England Business Report.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
You are listening to the New England Business Report on
the Voice of Boston WRKO six 't eighty Joe and
Kim will be right back.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
This is Joe short sleeve of the New England Business Report.
I'm WRKO. I'm joined by Sam Lang of Rabino and
Lang Wealth Partners. Sam. Why is it so urgent to
ensure our retirement plan works for us and is free
of mistakes?
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Very important, Joe.
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Speaker 3 (45:06):
All right, you've got my attention. How can we start
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Speaker 3 (47:42):
And welcome back to the New England Business Report on
this Sunday morning, the first of September.
Speaker 5 (47:47):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
You know, I guess we can say we saved the
best for last. We're gonna have a conversation now with
the CEO of M and T Bank. And he's a
local kid. It's a local story. He grew up in
the air, Massachusetts. He went to Boston College. I mean,
does it get any more local than that? And Wikipedia,
(48:08):
as of twenty twenty two has them as one of
four black CEOs in the Fortune five hundred. We've had
Renee on our program when Kim and I hosted a
Bloomberg program before, and we welcome him back. We want
to find out what M and t' has been up
to over the past couple of years. Renee Jones, good morning, Hey, good.
Speaker 7 (48:26):
Morning Joe, Good morning Kim. It's great to be here
with you today.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, so let let's just start with M and T Bank,
your footprint here in Massachusetts, give our listeners out there
a macro view of who and what you are.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
Sure, you know, we think of ourselves as relatively unique
in terms of banking. You know, we believe that M
and T is really in the business of improving communities,
and our goal is to try to make a difference
in people's lives. And we often sort of say that,
you know, we just happen to know a little bit
about finance, but that's not the only way we improve communities. So,
(49:06):
you know, I think the best way to describe it
is every day, what M ANDT feels like is is
we constantly try to be a small bit of the
glue that binds the institutions that make up a community together.
So we participate with the not for profits, the culturals,
the education and educational institutes, religious government organizations, all of
(49:29):
the groups that traditionally come together to solve problems in
a community, and that's where we build our trust. And
as we found over decades, being part of the community
when they need you is what actually allows us to
produce pretty strong financial results as well.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
You know, Rene, I love that concept. And I know
you gave us a few examples, but give me give
us a story, you know about maybe something that you
guys have been involved in that you loved.
Speaker 7 (49:56):
Oh wow, I mean, you know, there's so many things,
in part because we've got twenty two thousand employees and
we take their lead. So the things that they find
to be most interesting, the causes that they love to support,
are the things that we tend to get behind and
put some energy to. So just recently, you know, I
(50:17):
think of the Boys and Girls Club efforts that actually
we've been involved in for you know, not just too
probably an excess of five or six years in Boston,
and then over the last three years we were just
chatting a little bit about the pan and Mass Challenge.
We loved the Panamas Challenge when we first saw it,
we said, well, it's a bike ride, but then we
realized it was cancer and it was something that affected
(50:40):
everybody's lives. And so we've rallied around it. And not
only are our employees and customers in Massachusetts engaged in it,
people have started to travel from Buffalo and Baltimore and
New Jersey to come up to the ride because it's
such a great cause. So those are two great examples.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Talking with Renee Jones, he is the CEO of M
and T Bank, uh, and we're talking about, well, their
footprint here in Massachusetts. But I'm really curious Rene, because
when we talk to folks, who are, you know, saying
what are on business's minds these days? It all comes
back to this AI question.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
And when I talk about the banking sector, they always
say the most expensive thing on a CEO's desk is
you know, how to keep up with the high tech
banking moving forward. Talk to us a little bit about
what you see in terms of the high tech future
of M and T. How important that piece obviously is,
but and then this whole AI piece.
Speaker 7 (51:36):
Yeah, sure, you know, advancements in technology and data, the
level of innovation and entrepreneurism is really changing the world
in pretty dramatic ways. And the banking industry is not
any different there, you.
Speaker 6 (51:51):
Know, M and T.
Speaker 7 (51:53):
The approach that we take to tech is maybe a
little different. We think of tech as an enabler of
human talent, and in fact that you can go back
Paul Romer, who won a Nobel Prize in twenty eighteen,
talks a lot about his work, talked a lot about
how the world was too focused on physical assets and
(52:13):
the value created by physical assets and not the personal
relationships in between in the middle of them. And so
you know, at M and T we tend not to
talk about technology. We talk about technologists. We don't talk
about data. We talk about data scientists, you know. And
as a result of that is we think that it's
important to attract the best talent because it's those individuals
(52:36):
who can ensure that the changes that are coming that
we haven't seen yet are brought to bear right and
that we're always tying those changes in technology into our mission.
So today we have over two thousand, probably twenty five
hundred technologists. We have fifteen hundred technologists alone in our
(52:56):
tech hub in Buffalo, and really we're they're all focused
on preparing us for the future enhancements that exist. You know,
people often ask us, is technology and particularly AI going
to get rid of the branches physical branches our views know,
and we base that on this long history of every
time there's innovation coming, whether it be the the ATM,
(53:19):
the web, mobile banking, or now real time payments, what
we find is our customers add those and use more,
but they never drop the technology. They're looking for lots
of options to make to make things really convenient for them.
So I think, you know, as you look at it today,
we're using AI in some really practical places. We're using
(53:39):
it to protect our customers from fraud and cyber crime,
We're using it to more have more personalized experiences. We're
reducing costs in our back office. So you know, we
really see technology as a way to bring our people
closer to our customers.
Speaker 6 (53:57):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (53:57):
And that's that's what we'll continue to do and the
way will continue to invest in technology.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Let me take you in a little bit of different direction,
if you don't mind, Renee. Earlier in this show, we
were talking to an executive in hospitality and we were
comparing the last couple of years really interesting conversation because
he said the twenty twenty four so far has been
a really tough year. You know, they went back after
(54:24):
COVID to twenty nineteen numbers and now they have dropped.
Talk to us about where you see the economy here
in New England and what you're anticipating for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7 (54:36):
I guess I start by saying, is that we think,
you know, New England is an incredible place at the
begin with. So yes, if you start step back and
think we've got macro, we've got a slowing global economy,
we've got wars and violence, particularly in the Middle East,
and there's a fair amount of uncertainty out there. But
at the same time we think that around innovation and
(55:01):
the things that are actually happening, there's a really bright,
bright future and a bright future for the New England economy.
I think first and foremost, I mean New England has
got opportunities that lots of other communities do not. It's
a national global health innovation. I think we saw this
real time and that during the pandemic when New England's
(55:22):
biotech and the life science ecosystem activated to you know,
to help us solve the global threat, right, And then
it's not just companies. It's not just companies. We've got
this incredible ability to attract the brightest minds in the
world to come into our our universities and our hospital systems.
Speaker 6 (55:41):
Right.
Speaker 7 (55:41):
So the foundation of what we have in New England
is really extraordinary. I'm a big champion of all of
our communities, but I will tell you that it's very
impressive to come into Massachusetts and see what the opportunities
are if you look at beyond like eastern Massachusetts, for example,
did you know that we're like one of the leading
(56:03):
regions for food science. UMass is actually the top agricultural
science university in the country, and it's top ten worldwide. So,
for example, we have lots of companies that are out there,
and not just in Eastern Massachusetts but in western Massachusetts
and in Vermont and in Connecticut who are all geared
around the food supply chain and ensuring that not just
(56:27):
for people in the US, but around globally, so we
go through ebbs and flows. Clearly, the hospitality business right
now is seeing a bit of a decline because rates
are high and spending is starting to slow, but that
will bounce back and what's really optimistic is that the
amount of innovation and the talent that we've got in
(56:47):
our region will help even change and create more opportunities
for hospitality as well and all the industries that we
have in our region.
Speaker 3 (56:58):
Unfortunately, when I were down about thirty seconds here, So
did the CEO get any time off this summer?
Speaker 8 (57:05):
I did?
Speaker 7 (57:06):
I did. I spent it on the cape with my
family and my uh love.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
That two daughters love to hear that. All right. He's
he's Renee Jones and he is the CEO of M
and T Bank and we're glad he could visit us
today on the New England Business Report.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Well that's going to do it for this edition of
the New England Business Report. Joe coming up next week.
I'm looking forward to this. We're gonna chat with Jim Rude.
Speaker 3 (57:31):
It's always a great conversation. Jim tells the truth and
that's why we have him back. And you know, sometimes
the truth hurts, but.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
You know, yeah, you never know what's going to come
out of Jim's mouth. Course, ahead of the Chamber of
Commerce here in Boston, So Jim will be our guest
next week. In the meantime, everybody enjoyed the first week
of September, and we will see you right back here
for the New England Business Report next Sunday, right here
on w r KO.
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