If you've ever applied for federal student aid to go to college or university, you've likely heard of Pell Grants. Students from working-class families around the country often rely on these federal grants to fill out their financial aid. However, as part of the new spending plan just passed by Congress, some big changes could be coming for those grants that are worrying local higher education officials. Nate Mackinnon, the Executive Director of the Massachusetts Association of Community Colleges, talks with Nichole about the impact this could have on the state's community colleges and overall affordability for those who want to expand their education.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
From WBZ News Radio in Boston. This is New England Weekend.
Each week we come together right here and talk about
all the topics important to you and the place where
you live. It is great to have you back with
us this holiday weekend. I'm Nicole Davis. If you've ever
had to apply for a federal student aid to go
to college or university, you've likely heard of PELL grants.
Students from working class families all over the country rely
(00:30):
on these each year to fill out their financial aid. Now,
as part of the new spending plan that just passed
on Capitol Hill, changes are coming to these grants, and
those are changes that local high ed officials say they're
very concerned about. I did want to mention that this
interview took place before the passage of the bill, but
the information is still very relevant. Let's talk about this now.
Nate McKennon, the executive director of the Massachusetts Association of
(00:53):
Community Colleges. Now, Nate tell us what exactly a PELL
grant is and what exactly it's used for.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
The PEL grant is one of the largest pieces of
the federal financial aids system. You know, when people think
about financial aid for colleges, they tend to think of,
you know, what they'll get from a needs based perspective,
And the PEL grant makes up the large majority of
need based financial aid that the federal government gives out
(01:22):
towards higher education. It maxes out this current year at
seven three hundred and ninety five dollars for a student
who's attending full time, which is twelve credits a semester.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, And how many students here in Massachusetts are using
these pell grants to take advantage of our community college programs.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know the PEL grant because it is the largest
portion of federal financial aid, and because it is need based,
it impacts students at community colleges more than it does
anywhere else. And the reason for that is simple that
students who go to community colleges are more likely to
be low end students. So if you're coming to a
(02:03):
community college and you have three hundred and ninety five
dollars for a total bill of seven thousand dollars, it
basically covers the cost. Right now, when you combine that
with other forms of state aid, it actually starts to
help students with things like cost of books and cost
of supplies, cost of housing, et cetera. So for a
(02:23):
student at a four year institution, the PEL grant is
important and makes up a significant portion of their bill,
but certainly not all of it. Whereas at a two
year public college like our community colleges here in Massachusetts,
the PEL grant dramatically covers a big portion of the
total cost of tuition and fees.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
What is happening in Washington then that could potentially change
our pel grant situation in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
The so called Big, One, Big Beautiful Bill the House,
in passing their version of reconciliation, made significant changes to
the pel grant eligibility. First of all, they said that
to get a full pill grant, a student would now
need to take a total of fifteen credits a semester
(03:10):
for thirty credits a year. That's a change from the
current policy that's twelve credits a semester. And additionally, they
said that no longer can a student actually get a
PELL grant if they are taking below halftime, and below
halftime would now be seven and a half credits. Well,
the reality is for most students that means taking nine credits,
(03:30):
since our courses tend to be three credit courses and
at the end of the day. That's going to impact
community colleges more than anyone else. Why because our students
also are more likely to attend part time. In Massachusetts,
two thirds of community college students attend part time, not
because they'd rather be sitting at the beach or playing
(03:50):
video games in between classes and just don't want to
take as much as one at once, but because they're working.
So it's sort of ironic to see Congress putting a
policy together that discourages students from working while attending school
and saying that instead they should just go to school
full time. We think that's backwards, We think it doesn't
meet students where they are, and it's very problematic. Additionally,
(04:14):
by increasing the total credit the student needs to take,
what they're essentially doing is devaluing the per credit amount
of pelgrant. So if before you could take twelve credits
and get a seventy three to ninety five pel grant,
and now you have to take fifteen credits, the amount
you get per credit has dramatically decreased. You know what
hasn't decreased the amount of tuition and fees students have
(04:37):
to pay. On the other side, because the cost of
delivering that education hasn't changed either. So at the same
time of devaluing the per credit amount of PEL grant,
they're also reducing who can get it by saying you
have to be at least half time or more. And
that's going to hurt community colleges more so than anyone else.
And the problem with that is that that's where our
(04:58):
most vulnerable students are. And so as a country, and
you know, as a state, we want to ensure we're
providing pathways towards upward mobility for particularly students who are
lower income, trying to get on a career pathway that's
sustainable so they can buy a house and raise a family,
and this just sets that back in a really big way.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, some people might say, why should my tax dollars
be going then on the federal or the state level
to provide this schooling for people here in Massachusetts and
around the country.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What would you say to that, Well, I think one
thing we should recognize is that Massachusetts is one of
the several states that gives more in federal taxes than
it actually gets back. And this is not going to
change that. It's going to make it worse. The other
thing I would say is that our students who are
attending community colleges across the state are doing so to
(05:52):
better themselves and put themselves on a path towards upward mobility,
and by doing so, they're also trying to have a
sustainable age. And when individuals have sustainable wages, crime rates
go down, poverty rates go down, reliance and social programs
go down. And so these are the types of investments
we should be making so that we're not on the
(06:14):
other side investing in trying to keep food in people's
tables and prevent them from being homeless with children or
not having being able to afford healthcare. If you give
people the tool of the great equalizer that is education,
then ultimately the goal is that they can be self
sustaining in the long run. That's what we should want.
(06:35):
And in Massachusetts, where education was born and continues to thrive,
that has always been a priority and we ought to
continue working on it.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Now. We have this so called millionaire's tax here in Massachusetts,
and I know, even just a few weeks ago we
saw a big surplus come out of it, a lot
of money going toward education. Do you think that we
could use that to maybe buffer the situation.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What do you think, Well, right now, the Millionaire's tax
support universal free Community College, which just completed our first
year of that. The year prior to that we had
mass reconnects and so our enrollment has grown dramatically, which
is great, but we're using that to cover that cost
right now. You know, whether or not, if Congress makes
(07:18):
these changes to pell, whether or not we're able to
sustain that program will be a decision of the legislature
and governor. Well, we would certainly hope we're able to,
but I think it depends on what the total dollar
for dollar exposure is. I'd also point out that if
Congress makes the changes to Medicaid that the House had
put forward, that that's going to really set the state
(07:39):
back as well and cause a ripple effect everywhere across
state government, including in our investments in higher education. So
we're certainly concerned about that in a big way.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Okay, Well, Nate McKennon, thank you so much for your
time on the show. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Have a safe and healthy holiday weekend. Please join me
again next week for another edition of the show. I'm
Nicole Davis. From WBZ news Radio on iHeartRadio
From WBZ News Radio in Boston. This is New England Weekend.
Each week we come together right here and talk about
all the topics important to you and the place where
you live. It is great to have you back with
us this holiday weekend. I'm Nicole Davis. If you've ever
had to apply for a federal student aid to go
to college or university, you've likely heard of PELL grants.
Students from working class families all over the country rely
(00:30):
on these each year to fill out their financial aid. Now,
as part of the new spending plan that just passed
on Capitol Hill, changes are coming to these grants, and
those are changes that local high ed officials say they're
very concerned about. I did want to mention that this
interview took place before the passage of the bill, but
the information is still very relevant. Let's talk about this now.
Nate McKennon, the executive director of the Massachusetts Association of
(00:53):
Community Colleges. Now, Nate tell us what exactly a PELL
grant is and what exactly it's used for.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
The PEL grant is one of the largest pieces of
the federal financial aids system. You know, when people think
about financial aid for colleges, they tend to think of,
you know, what they'll get from a needs based perspective,
And the PEL grant makes up the large majority of
need based financial aid that the federal government gives out
(01:22):
towards higher education. It maxes out this current year at
seven three hundred and ninety five dollars for a student
who's attending full time, which is twelve credits a semester.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, And how many students here in Massachusetts are using
these pell grants to take advantage of our community college programs.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know the PEL grant because it is the largest
portion of federal financial aid, and because it is need based,
it impacts students at community colleges more than it does
anywhere else. And the reason for that is simple that
students who go to community colleges are more likely to
be low end students. So if you're coming to a
(02:03):
community college and you have three hundred and ninety five
dollars for a total bill of seven thousand dollars, it
basically covers the cost. Right now, when you combine that
with other forms of state aid, it actually starts to
help students with things like cost of books and cost
of supplies, cost of housing, et cetera. So for a
(02:23):
student at a four year institution, the PEL grant is
important and makes up a significant portion of their bill,
but certainly not all of it. Whereas at a two
year public college like our community colleges here in Massachusetts,
the PEL grant dramatically covers a big portion of the
total cost of tuition and fees.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
What is happening in Washington then that could potentially change
our pel grant situation in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
The so called Big, One, Big Beautiful Bill the House,
in passing their version of reconciliation, made significant changes to
the pel grant eligibility. First of all, they said that
to get a full pill grant, a student would now
need to take a total of fifteen credits a semester
(03:10):
for thirty credits a year. That's a change from the
current policy that's twelve credits a semester. And additionally, they
said that no longer can a student actually get a
PELL grant if they are taking below halftime, and below
halftime would now be seven and a half credits. Well,
the reality is for most students that means taking nine credits,
(03:30):
since our courses tend to be three credit courses and
at the end of the day. That's going to impact
community colleges more than anyone else. Why because our students
also are more likely to attend part time. In Massachusetts,
two thirds of community college students attend part time, not
because they'd rather be sitting at the beach or playing
(03:50):
video games in between classes and just don't want to
take as much as one at once, but because they're working.
So it's sort of ironic to see Congress putting a
policy together that discourages students from working while attending school
and saying that instead they should just go to school
full time. We think that's backwards, We think it doesn't
meet students where they are, and it's very problematic. Additionally,
(04:14):
by increasing the total credit the student needs to take,
what they're essentially doing is devaluing the per credit amount
of pelgrant. So if before you could take twelve credits
and get a seventy three to ninety five pel grant,
and now you have to take fifteen credits, the amount
you get per credit has dramatically decreased. You know what
hasn't decreased the amount of tuition and fees students have
(04:37):
to pay. On the other side, because the cost of
delivering that education hasn't changed either. So at the same
time of devaluing the per credit amount of PEL grant,
they're also reducing who can get it by saying you
have to be at least half time or more. And
that's going to hurt community colleges more so than anyone else.
And the problem with that is that that's where our
(04:58):
most vulnerable students are. And so as a country, and
you know, as a state, we want to ensure we're
providing pathways towards upward mobility for particularly students who are
lower income, trying to get on a career pathway that's
sustainable so they can buy a house and raise a family,
and this just sets that back in a really big way.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, some people might say, why should my tax dollars
be going then on the federal or the state level
to provide this schooling for people here in Massachusetts and
around the country.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What would you say to that, Well, I think one
thing we should recognize is that Massachusetts is one of
the several states that gives more in federal taxes than
it actually gets back. And this is not going to
change that. It's going to make it worse. The other
thing I would say is that our students who are
attending community colleges across the state are doing so to
(05:52):
better themselves and put themselves on a path towards upward mobility,
and by doing so, they're also trying to have a
sustainable age. And when individuals have sustainable wages, crime rates
go down, poverty rates go down, reliance and social programs
go down. And so these are the types of investments
we should be making so that we're not on the
(06:14):
other side investing in trying to keep food in people's
tables and prevent them from being homeless with children or
not having being able to afford healthcare. If you give
people the tool of the great equalizer that is education,
then ultimately the goal is that they can be self
sustaining in the long run. That's what we should want.
(06:35):
And in Massachusetts, where education was born and continues to thrive,
that has always been a priority and we ought to
continue working on it.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Now. We have this so called millionaire's tax here in Massachusetts,
and I know, even just a few weeks ago we
saw a big surplus come out of it, a lot
of money going toward education. Do you think that we
could use that to maybe buffer the situation.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
What do you think, Well, right now, the Millionaire's tax
support universal free Community College, which just completed our first
year of that. The year prior to that we had
mass reconnects and so our enrollment has grown dramatically, which
is great, but we're using that to cover that cost
right now. You know, whether or not, if Congress makes
(07:18):
these changes to pell, whether or not we're able to
sustain that program will be a decision of the legislature
and governor. Well, we would certainly hope we're able to,
but I think it depends on what the total dollar
for dollar exposure is. I'd also point out that if
Congress makes the changes to Medicaid that the House had
put forward, that that's going to really set the state
(07:39):
back as well and cause a ripple effect everywhere across
state government, including in our investments in higher education. So
we're certainly concerned about that in a big way.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Okay, Well, Nate McKennon, thank you so much for your
time on the show. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Have a safe and healthy holiday weekend. Please join me
again next week for another edition of the show. I'm
Nicole Davis. From WBZ news Radio on iHeartRadio
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