September 2, 2023 • 14 mins
School districts around the Commonwealth, especially in rural areas, are struggling with budget cuts, classrooms that aren't fully stocked, and teachers reaching into their own pockets to pay for much-needed supplies. Many rural schools are facing significant funding challenges, and while there's some help from Beacon Hill, State Senator Jo Comerford (D-Hampshire, Franklin and Worcester) says it's not enough. She joins the show this week to talk about her efforts to convince her fellow lawmakers to increase state funding and support for those communities.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
From WBZ News Radio in Boston.This is New England Weekend, where each
week we come together we talk aboutall the topics important to you and the
place where you live. It's sogood to be back with you again this
week. I'm Nicole Davis. Asthe school year begins, there are many
districts around the Commonwealth where budgets havebeen cut and classrooms aren't fully stocked.
Teachers are finding themselves paying for suppliesor even going on Amazon starting up a
(00:32):
wish list. Sometimes parents and kidshold fundraisers to generate money to make sure
kids have everything they need to geta good education. Well, here in
Massachusetts, about ten percent of thestate students go to school in rural areas.
The thing is, many of thoseschools are facing some huge problems like
low tax revenues, declining enrollment,and because all the extra distance the kids
(00:52):
have to go on the bus,transportation costs are higher too. There's some
help from Beacon Hill, but SenatorJoe Commerford says it is not nearly enough.
She has been pushing her fellow lawmakersto increased state funding and support for
those areas. Let's talk about itwith her right now. The Senator is
on the show. It is sogood to have you here. Expand a
bit, I guess to start,if you could about these special challenges that
(01:14):
schools in these rural areas have tocontend with. Thanks so much Nicole for
digging into this. In fact,there are one hundred and eighty rural communities
in the Commonwealth. So a commonwealthwith three hundred and fifty one cities and
towns, you know, more thanhalf would be designated rural, and the
challenges are varied. You know,as much as rural schools are unique,
(01:37):
they're not modelis says you know wellfrom your good research and background. So
it's everything from geographic distance. Youknow, rural schools cover larger square mile
areas that are more sparsely populated.Rural schools often are are struggling with low
(02:02):
or declining enrollments of students, thereforemaking their fixed costs look disproportionately higher,
because you know, you may havea school of one or two hundred children,
but you still have a boiler,still have a custodian, you still
have a school roof, you stillhave a cafeteria. So some of these
(02:23):
fixed costs are born by smaller numbersof students. Therefore the per pupil payments
into school districts just don't stretch asfar. So you know, those are
those are some of the varied kindsof struggles that rural rural school districts face.
(02:46):
And how is that impacting students inyour area? Well, you know,
I mean I think rural schools,you know, not unlike urban schools,
are incredibly creative. But yes,you're right that it does have an
impact on rural school districts. Youknow, among the challenges they face are
(03:07):
you know, course offerings, classsizes, time spent on buses for students,
after school curricular activities. Certainly youknow, low pay or lower pay,
just proportionally lower pay for teachers andstaff. And you know that can
(03:30):
result in you know, students inrural schools getting an inequitable shake to a
high quality education for sure. Andbefore we get into the bill that you've
filed on Beacon Hill, because Iknow that you've been very active on the
Hill about this, you know,some people on the flip side might say,
(03:51):
well, if you don't want todeal with this, move to a
more populated area, or why isit my you know, if I live
in the city. Why is itmy job to subsidize somebody who wants to
live in the woods. What wouldyour response be to that? The state
and the public sector is responsible fortrying to level the playing field across the
commonwealth. And so you know whererural schools may need some targeted or more
(04:16):
distinct aid. It's not so verydifferent from the aid that goes to,
say, for example, Gateway cityto spur economic development or housing. You
know, the legislature and the administrationis charged with finding a commonwealth, finding
a way forward for a commonwealth ofvaried shapes and sizes, and so you
(04:40):
know where rural school districts need tobe understood distinctly and equitably and given that
kind of fair shake. The sameshould be true and is true in my
book for urban centers. All right, let's talk about it. Then your
act is called an Act to Providea Sustainable Future for Rural Schools. And
I have to say, earlier thisyear you said that the issue involving rural
(05:02):
school aid is kind of a perfectstorm. So talk to me about filing
this on Beacon Hill, your effortsto get this done on Beacon Hill and
end the reactions so far. Thanksso much. Yeah. So this is
the result this bill, which ofcourse is filed in the House and led
in the House beautifully by Representatives NatalieBlay. This is a result of a
(05:23):
special commission that replay and Senator Hines, who is left the legislature, as
you know, help share for thelegislature and had on it, you know,
everybody from administration officials, from theDepartment of Elementary and Secondary Education,
to school superintendents, to advocates,to researchers, experts in rural affairs,
(05:46):
and so it was filed as aresult of this special commission, taking the
recommendations from the special Commission and tryingto actualize them. I meant, them
into a solid plan for the legislatureto grapple with. It's not all about
money. Some of it, forexample, as you know, is about
(06:10):
policy change. So far, Ibelieve that the you know, the response
that's been received is actually quite positive. And I do believe that both in
the House and the Senate, inrecent years, we've seen in increasing ways
rural and regional equity be you know, rural affairs and regional equity be considered
(06:34):
more and more on the front burneras issues to be tackled. And then
of course the Heally Driskol administration appointeda Director of Rural Affairs and in former
Senator and Gobi. And so youknow, the bill is in we expect
a hearing in the fall, andwe've had a briefing recently for the legislature
(06:57):
where school superintendents and students and othershelped detail the different provisions in the bill,
and many of our colleagues attended.And we've my office has gotten a
number of other offices outreach, youknow, trying to grapple with what's in
the bill, how they can besupportive understanding that you know, we're actually
(07:18):
a stronger commonwealth if all of usare receiving a fair shake and public education.
So I'm very heartened by it.Have you heard from education officials,
I mean, we have Commissioner Riley, other state education officials. Have they
responded to your concerns that many ofyour school districts are being left behind from
(07:40):
this aid coming out of Bacon Hillso far? You know, I haven't
spoken directly to the Commissioner about it, but I will say that, you
know, shortly into his tenure,Secretary pet Tutwiler came to Western Massachusetts,
and I have the utmost respect forSecretary Tutwiler for doing that. So he
(08:00):
came. I worked with the Collaborativefor Educational Services out here, and there
was a packed room of superintendents andeducational officials from Western Massachusetts and the conversation
was, you know, fairly intense. As you know, Superintendent after superintendent
detailed the particular challenges you know thatwe spoke about earlier, you know,
(08:24):
fixed costs being borne by a limitednumber of students, transportation challenges, aging
infrastructure challenges, healthcare expenses, retirementexpenses, the intersection with Proposition two and
a half, which, as youknow, curtails the ability of communities to
(08:45):
raise extra funds. You know,the Secretary heard all of this, and
then you know, he went outand visited school. So he visited Bridge
Street School in Northampton, and thenhe went up to Pioneer, which is
a regional schools strict up in Northfield, and you know, so he spoke
(09:05):
to educator, students, superintendence inthose settings on top of his visit,
you know, to speaking specifically tosuperintendence and really, you know, he
brought a lot of people with himfrom his team, and you know,
I really felt and he knew aboutthe bill. He knows about our intentions.
(09:26):
Rep. Lay and I and theother rural senators and House members in
the legislature. And you know,I have a deep appreciation for the Secretary's
willingness to own and grapple with thecomplexities of rural schools as distinct from say,
suburban or urban schools. And hecertainly got an earful when he was
(09:52):
in Western Massachusetts, and he promisedto come back, so he's I'm very
heartened by his leadership. And uh, you know, he said that when
he was out in Western mass youknow, he said that he and his
team were hitting the ground learning,which I you know, I think is
indicative of his very humble approach.But in my view, the Secretary is
(10:13):
actually hitting the ground running in hiswillingness to take on the you know,
the myriad challenges and opportunities. AndI guess I would just say that,
you know, he sees rural educationis both a challenge and an opportunity,
you know, And I do thinkthat that's part of the message that he
got out in Western mass that there'swhile they're great challenges in our schools,
(10:37):
there's also great opportunities for our studentsand families and educators. And our job,
I think as legislators and administration isto find a pass forward that is
equitable for our communities while allowing theunique benefits of of Western Mass schools to
(10:58):
be you know, to be realized. Your common earlier was super interesting,
you know, should you know whatwhat might Eastern Mass folks be thinking,
You know, why don't you justget out of those communities if you don't
like those schools? Well, Ithink everybody knows it's not as simple as
that, coscept lives and jobs andfamilies, careers, and you know,
(11:20):
I think our job is to seethat when Western Mass schools are thriving,
in fact, the whole commonwealth isthriving. And I do think that the
Healy Driskol administration see hees Western Massmuch more clearly than I've than I've recognized
past administration seeing us, and theyknow there's a life out, you know,
(11:41):
out of that four ninety five corridors, there's a life behind, you
know, beyond that, And Ido think they believe that when we do
well out here in Western Mass,in fact, we contribute to the commonwealth
well being sure. And I've hada Senator Paul Mark on the show a
couple of times, and he andI have spoken quite a bit about how
(12:03):
you know, there needs to bea gap bridged between the whole oh Eastern
Mass, Western Mass thing, becauseagain, like you said, we're all
in one commonwealth. We're all inthis together, and the more successful that
all of us are. I mean, no more of this weird segregation between
I don't know, the Connecticut River, either side you're on. You know,
it just doesn't make absolute. Itdoesn't make sense. No, it
(12:24):
doesn't make sense. And again,I actually feel more hopeful than I ever
have with this administration and this legislativeleadership, you know, in the Senate
President and the share of ways andmeans. You know, we have two
folks who are grappling with everything fromregional school transportation to Chapter ninety to local
aid to rural school aid. Youknow, the Senate did some record funding
(12:48):
of that in this budget. Andyou know and I they both are really
committed to regional equity. And youknow that on top of House members good
work, on top of the Healyyour school administration. You know, I
think we'll find a way forward Ithink so. And honestly, you know,
you're a parent of two kids inthe public schools, so this is
(13:09):
a personal investment for you as well, in your entire family, because every
parent wants to make sure their kidgets the best education. Absolutely. Yeah.
And my my wife is a publicschool teacher. Oh yeah, I'm
out here in Western mass so youknow, yeah, we're all in.
It's a family in terms of ourcommitment to public education. But and that's
you know, so that's a personaldriver for me. But you know,
(13:31):
as you say, right, Irepresent these twenty five beautiful cities and towns,
and education is absolutely to constituents andto municipalities, a real top issue
out here. Yeah for sure.All right, Senator, thank you so
much for your time. I reallyappreciate it. Well, I appreciate your
interests truly and all you do.Thank you. Have a safe and healthy
(13:54):
holiday weekend, and please join meagain next week for another edition of the
show. I'm Nicole to leave usfrom WBZ NewsRadio on iHeartRadio
From WBZ News Radio in Boston.This is New England Weekend, where each
week we come together we talk aboutall the topics important to you and the
place where you live. It's sogood to be back with you again this
week. I'm Nicole Davis. Asthe school year begins, there are many
districts around the Commonwealth where budgets havebeen cut and classrooms aren't fully stocked.
Teachers are finding themselves paying for suppliesor even going on Amazon starting up a
(00:32):
wish list. Sometimes parents and kidshold fundraisers to generate money to make sure
kids have everything they need to geta good education. Well, here in
Massachusetts, about ten percent of thestate students go to school in rural areas.
The thing is, many of thoseschools are facing some huge problems like
low tax revenues, declining enrollment,and because all the extra distance the kids
(00:52):
have to go on the bus,transportation costs are higher too. There's some
help from Beacon Hill, but SenatorJoe Commerford says it is not nearly enough.
She has been pushing her fellow lawmakersto increased state funding and support for
those areas. Let's talk about itwith her right now. The Senator is
on the show. It is sogood to have you here. Expand a
bit, I guess to start,if you could about these special challenges that
(01:14):
schools in these rural areas have tocontend with. Thanks so much Nicole for
digging into this. In fact,there are one hundred and eighty rural communities
in the Commonwealth. So a commonwealthwith three hundred and fifty one cities and
towns, you know, more thanhalf would be designated rural, and the
challenges are varied. You know,as much as rural schools are unique,
(01:37):
they're not modelis says you know wellfrom your good research and background. So
it's everything from geographic distance. Youknow, rural schools cover larger square mile
areas that are more sparsely populated.Rural schools often are are struggling with low
(02:02):
or declining enrollments of students, thereforemaking their fixed costs look disproportionately higher,
because you know, you may havea school of one or two hundred children,
but you still have a boiler,still have a custodian, you still
have a school roof, you stillhave a cafeteria. So some of these
(02:23):
fixed costs are born by smaller numbersof students. Therefore the per pupil payments
into school districts just don't stretch asfar. So you know, those are
those are some of the varied kindsof struggles that rural rural school districts face.
(02:46):
And how is that impacting students inyour area? Well, you know,
I mean I think rural schools,you know, not unlike urban schools,
are incredibly creative. But yes,you're right that it does have an
impact on rural school districts. Youknow, among the challenges they face are
(03:07):
you know, course offerings, classsizes, time spent on buses for students,
after school curricular activities. Certainly youknow, low pay or lower pay,
just proportionally lower pay for teachers andstaff. And you know that can
(03:30):
result in you know, students inrural schools getting an inequitable shake to a
high quality education for sure. Andbefore we get into the bill that you've
filed on Beacon Hill, because Iknow that you've been very active on the
Hill about this, you know,some people on the flip side might say,
(03:51):
well, if you don't want todeal with this, move to a
more populated area, or why isit my you know, if I live
in the city. Why is itmy job to subsidize somebody who wants to
live in the woods. What wouldyour response be to that? The state
and the public sector is responsible fortrying to level the playing field across the
commonwealth. And so you know whererural schools may need some targeted or more
(04:16):
distinct aid. It's not so verydifferent from the aid that goes to,
say, for example, Gateway cityto spur economic development or housing. You
know, the legislature and the administrationis charged with finding a commonwealth, finding
a way forward for a commonwealth ofvaried shapes and sizes, and so you
(04:40):
know where rural school districts need tobe understood distinctly and equitably and given that
kind of fair shake. The sameshould be true and is true in my
book for urban centers. All right, let's talk about it. Then your
act is called an Act to Providea Sustainable Future for Rural Schools. And
I have to say, earlier thisyear you said that the issue involving rural
(05:02):
school aid is kind of a perfectstorm. So talk to me about filing
this on Beacon Hill, your effortsto get this done on Beacon Hill and
end the reactions so far. Thanksso much. Yeah. So this is
the result this bill, which ofcourse is filed in the House and led
in the House beautifully by Representatives NatalieBlay. This is a result of a
(05:23):
special commission that replay and Senator Hines, who is left the legislature, as
you know, help share for thelegislature and had on it, you know,
everybody from administration officials, from theDepartment of Elementary and Secondary Education,
to school superintendents, to advocates,to researchers, experts in rural affairs,
(05:46):
and so it was filed as aresult of this special commission, taking the
recommendations from the special Commission and tryingto actualize them. I meant, them
into a solid plan for the legislatureto grapple with. It's not all about
money. Some of it, forexample, as you know, is about
(06:10):
policy change. So far, Ibelieve that the you know, the response
that's been received is actually quite positive. And I do believe that both in
the House and the Senate, inrecent years, we've seen in increasing ways
rural and regional equity be you know, rural affairs and regional equity be considered
(06:34):
more and more on the front burneras issues to be tackled. And then
of course the Heally Driskol administration appointeda Director of Rural Affairs and in former
Senator and Gobi. And so youknow, the bill is in we expect
a hearing in the fall, andwe've had a briefing recently for the legislature
(06:57):
where school superintendents and students and othershelped detail the different provisions in the bill,
and many of our colleagues attended.And we've my office has gotten a
number of other offices outreach, youknow, trying to grapple with what's in
the bill, how they can besupportive understanding that you know, we're actually
(07:18):
a stronger commonwealth if all of usare receiving a fair shake and public education.
So I'm very heartened by it.Have you heard from education officials,
I mean, we have Commissioner Riley, other state education officials. Have they
responded to your concerns that many ofyour school districts are being left behind from
(07:40):
this aid coming out of Bacon Hillso far? You know, I haven't
spoken directly to the Commissioner about it, but I will say that, you
know, shortly into his tenure,Secretary pet Tutwiler came to Western Massachusetts,
and I have the utmost respect forSecretary Tutwiler for doing that. So he
(08:00):
came. I worked with the Collaborativefor Educational Services out here, and there
was a packed room of superintendents andeducational officials from Western Massachusetts and the conversation
was, you know, fairly intense. As you know, Superintendent after superintendent
detailed the particular challenges you know thatwe spoke about earlier, you know,
(08:24):
fixed costs being borne by a limitednumber of students, transportation challenges, aging
infrastructure challenges, healthcare expenses, retirementexpenses, the intersection with Proposition two and
a half, which, as youknow, curtails the ability of communities to
(08:45):
raise extra funds. You know,the Secretary heard all of this, and
then you know, he went outand visited school. So he visited Bridge
Street School in Northampton, and thenhe went up to Pioneer, which is
a regional schools strict up in Northfield, and you know, so he spoke
(09:05):
to educator, students, superintendence inthose settings on top of his visit,
you know, to speaking specifically tosuperintendence and really, you know, he
brought a lot of people with himfrom his team, and you know,
I really felt and he knew aboutthe bill. He knows about our intentions.
(09:26):
Rep. Lay and I and theother rural senators and House members in
the legislature. And you know,I have a deep appreciation for the Secretary's
willingness to own and grapple with thecomplexities of rural schools as distinct from say,
suburban or urban schools. And hecertainly got an earful when he was
(09:52):
in Western Massachusetts, and he promisedto come back, so he's I'm very
heartened by his leadership. And uh, you know, he said that when
he was out in Western mass youknow, he said that he and his
team were hitting the ground learning,which I you know, I think is
indicative of his very humble approach.But in my view, the Secretary is
(10:13):
actually hitting the ground running in hiswillingness to take on the you know,
the myriad challenges and opportunities. AndI guess I would just say that,
you know, he sees rural educationis both a challenge and an opportunity,
you know, And I do thinkthat that's part of the message that he
got out in Western mass that there'swhile they're great challenges in our schools,
(10:37):
there's also great opportunities for our studentsand families and educators. And our job,
I think as legislators and administration isto find a pass forward that is
equitable for our communities while allowing theunique benefits of of Western Mass schools to
(10:58):
be you know, to be realized. Your common earlier was super interesting,
you know, should you know whatwhat might Eastern Mass folks be thinking,
You know, why don't you justget out of those communities if you don't
like those schools? Well, Ithink everybody knows it's not as simple as
that, coscept lives and jobs andfamilies, careers, and you know,
(11:20):
I think our job is to seethat when Western Mass schools are thriving,
in fact, the whole commonwealth isthriving. And I do think that the
Healy Driskol administration see hees Western Massmuch more clearly than I've than I've recognized
past administration seeing us, and theyknow there's a life out, you know,
(11:41):
out of that four ninety five corridors, there's a life behind, you
know, beyond that, And Ido think they believe that when we do
well out here in Western Mass,in fact, we contribute to the commonwealth
well being sure. And I've hada Senator Paul Mark on the show a
couple of times, and he andI have spoken quite a bit about how
(12:03):
you know, there needs to bea gap bridged between the whole oh Eastern
Mass, Western Mass thing, becauseagain, like you said, we're all
in one commonwealth. We're all inthis together, and the more successful that
all of us are. I mean, no more of this weird segregation between
I don't know, the Connecticut River, either side you're on. You know,
it just doesn't make absolute. Itdoesn't make sense. No, it
(12:24):
doesn't make sense. And again,I actually feel more hopeful than I ever
have with this administration and this legislativeleadership, you know, in the Senate
President and the share of ways andmeans. You know, we have two
folks who are grappling with everything fromregional school transportation to Chapter ninety to local
aid to rural school aid. Youknow, the Senate did some record funding
(12:48):
of that in this budget. Andyou know and I they both are really
committed to regional equity. And youknow that on top of House members good
work, on top of the Healyyour school administration. You know, I
think we'll find a way forward Ithink so. And honestly, you know,
you're a parent of two kids inthe public schools, so this is
(13:09):
a personal investment for you as well, in your entire family, because every
parent wants to make sure their kidgets the best education. Absolutely. Yeah.
And my my wife is a publicschool teacher. Oh yeah, I'm
out here in Western mass so youknow, yeah, we're all in.
It's a family in terms of ourcommitment to public education. But and that's
you know, so that's a personaldriver for me. But you know,
(13:31):
as you say, right, Irepresent these twenty five beautiful cities and towns,
and education is absolutely to constituents andto municipalities, a real top issue
out here. Yeah for sure.All right, Senator, thank you so
much for your time. I reallyappreciate it. Well, I appreciate your
interests truly and all you do.Thank you. Have a safe and healthy
(13:54):
holiday weekend, and please join meagain next week for another edition of the
show. I'm Nicole to leave usfrom WBZ NewsRadio on iHeartRadio
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