November 1, 2025 • 25 mins
Food banks, advocates, and local officials have been scrambling this week upon word that November's SNAP assistance won't be funded by the federal government. The Trump administration cites the ongoing shutdown for the move, and refuses to tap into federal contingency funding. However, state leaders say the hundreds of millions of dollars each month simply can't be covered on the state level, and holding back SNAP funding during a shutdown is unprecedented.
Erin McAleer of Project Bread and Andrew Morehouse of the Food Bank of Western Massachusetts are part of the Make Hunger History Coalition. They return to the show this week to discuss the situation and offer resources for those in need, including the Project Bread FoodSource Hotline, which you can call at 1-800-645-8333.
CONTENT NOTE: This discussion was recorded earlier in the week from the publish date, and there have been some legal developments over the funding for November's SNAP benefits. However, the interview's information on the story and resources for food access remains timely.
Erin McAleer of Project Bread and Andrew Morehouse of the Food Bank of Western Massachusetts are part of the Make Hunger History Coalition. They return to the show this week to discuss the situation and offer resources for those in need, including the Project Bread FoodSource Hotline, which you can call at 1-800-645-8333.
CONTENT NOTE: This discussion was recorded earlier in the week from the publish date, and there have been some legal developments over the funding for November's SNAP benefits. However, the interview's information on the story and resources for food access remains timely.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
From WBZ News Radio in Boston. This is New England Weekend.
Each week right here, we come together, we talk about
all the topics important to you and the place where
you live. It's great to have you back with us
this week. I'm Nicole Davis. Here in Massachusetts and all
over the country, local officials, food banks, and advocates have
been scrambling upon word that November Snap assistance may not
(00:29):
be funded by the federal government. Members of the Trump
administration have been citing the ongoing government shutdown for this
and refusing to tap into federal contingency funds. State leaders
say the hundreds of millions of dollars a month, despite
there being a rainy day fund, cannot be covered by
local budgets. With this developing story, in the Conversation, I
wanted to bring back two local leaders in the food
(00:50):
insecurity space. They've been here before. They're here to answer
some questions that I've been getting in seeing about the
situation and questions you may have as well. Aaron McLear,
president of Project Bred and nonprofit in Boston working to
end hunger. Andrew Morehouse is the executive director of the
Food Bank of Western Massachusetts. In chickapee and a programming
(01:10):
note here. The following discussion was recorded earlier this week.
The situation around the shutdown and SNAP is developing by
the hour, but despite some of these particulars changing, the
information here is still relevant. So let's get to it.
Thank you both for coming back to the show. Let's
just jump right in. Aaron, give us a quick rundown
about what SNAP is and what led up to this situation.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sure. SNAP is the supplemental nutrition assistance program. It used
to be called food stamps, and a lot of folks
still know it as that term. So it provides that
supplemental benefits for folks that need help putting food on
the table. It's really intended for certain populations. Children, one
of the biggest ones with disabilities, senior citizens' veterans, and
(01:56):
then people who are working but not making enough money
to get by. So people in the service sector who
their wages are just not you know, consistent or high enough,
consistently high enough to meet their basic needs, and so
this program allows them to put food on the table.
It's on an electronic card and people can go to
the grocery store and purchase food with their card. That way,
(02:18):
so with that approach, it's the most effective and efficient
solution because people are able to go to the fifty
five hundred retailers in our state and purchase their food there,
and it puts money back into the economy by doing that.
For every dollar spent on SNAP, a dollar fifty is
generating economic activity. So this program is also an economic
engine and economic stimulus.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Now, how many people would you say in Massachusetts are
currently using Snap at this.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Point one point one million.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
That's a lot of people. And you know, people talk
all the time. I see a lot of talk online.
Never read the comments, but I do because apparently I'm
a masochist, and people are saying, Oh, these people don't work,
they're lazy, they're this and that. Give me, I guess
you're rebuttal to that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Sure, well, there's a work requirement, so people are working, right,
And the folks who are not working are those groups
I just mentioned to you children, you know, people with
disabilities and senior citizens. And I think we would agree
that they don't need to be working or not. You know,
it should be part of the exemption. But there's this
huge misconception. We're actually hearing it coming out of Washington, DC.
(03:19):
Right now, I've heard some US senators say, you know,
this will get people back to work by cutting off
these benefits for forty two million Americans. That is just
not true. Most of the people on this if they're
not one of those groups, are working. They're just not
making enough money. So it's not going to result in
any positive outcome. Unfortunately, it's only going to result in
(03:43):
people who are working hard not being able to feed
themselves and feed their kids. That might mean they're not
able to show up to work right because they can't
meet that basic need. People's health is going to be compromised,
and then all of this money in our economy is
going to go away. And so even if you know,
even if you're not going about the one point one
million people like Andrew and I are, you should be
(04:04):
concerned about what this means for our economy, both here
in Massachusetts and nationally.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Well, then people would, then, I think, come back to
that and say, well, why don't you just get another job,
or why don't you just work more put the kids
in daycare? But it's not that simple.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
It's not that simple. So I think work more. We
know people that are working eighty hours a week and
are on snap. They are working the day shift, the
night shift. They're just not making enough money to get by.
And so it's not a matter of working more hours.
It's a matter of the fact that their jobs are
not paying them enough. And there's lots of macroeconomic forces
(04:36):
contributing to that. And then a childcare one is really
really challenging. We have the most expensive childcare in the country.
And so, yeah, I know from our footsores hotline, We've
talked to moms and I have friends in my own
circle who want to be working. They're teachers, they're social workers,
they love they want to be in the classroom that
they want to be working with folks. But when your
(04:57):
salary is less than the cost of child care, you
got to make an economic decision for your family. Right
if I go back to work, does that mean that
we're actually going to be hemorrhaging money for me to
be able to work. And so that's the childcare crisis
that we have in our state and in our country,
And I think it all goes back to this has
(05:17):
been unfairly painted as individual failings. Right, this narrative of
get a job, don't be lazy, go back to work,
and it's just not true. It's just it's actually inaccurate.
And the truth is that these are systemic challenges that
we're facing, the systemic challenges of rising inflation and wages
having kept paid. So even if you're somebody in the
(05:40):
past five years who just has gotten a raise, but
the cost of everything around you has gone up significantly,
you're probably struggling. So it's not an individual failing, it's
really a larger systemic one.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Not to mention that we live in one of the
highest cost of living states in the entire country, top three,
I'd have to say, so that's a doesn't help the
situation either. In Andrew, you know, talk to me a
little bit about the demand you're now seeing at the
Western Massachusetts Food Bank and your other pantries are seeing
as well because of that.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Sure, well, the Food Bank Western Massachusetts serves the four
counties of Western Massachusetts, and in fact, a recent study
by the Greater Boston Food Bank estimates that Hamden County,
which is a more urban area that has spring the
city of Springfield, which is the third largest city in
the Commonwealth, and Franklin County, which is a very rural
(06:32):
community between that they have the highest food insecurity rates
of all counties in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. So this
is a problem that people across the commonwealth face, even
out here in Western Massachusetts where we're providing food assistants
to over one hundred and twenty four thousand people every
month and there are one hundred and ninety one thousand SNAP.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Recipients, So that immediately.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Tells you that there are moreeople who receive SNAP then
go to seek food assistance, and that maybe because they
don't need it, but more often than not, that same
Greater Boston Food Bank studies showed that seventy five percent
of people who receive SNAP benefits also need to seek
out food assistance. And it could be maybe just at
(07:18):
the end of the month when their SNAP benefits have
run out, or you know, an emergency that can take
place in anybody's live, a car lives, a car can
break down, you know, there can be other issue, family
issues that happened, and you know, that just reminds me
of a story that a good friend of the Food
Bank told me yesterday, who was food and secure and
(07:41):
homeless when she was a young mother. Her kids now
are in their early twenties, and she shared with me
that she's going through a really rough time now because
her kids, who are at a stage of their lives
where they're understanding their childhood a little better, are actually
facing trauma, are and hearing the stories of the Snap
(08:02):
benefit cuts. They are really traumatized because all these memories
of their childhood are coming back and that's causing her
our front of the food bank to have to deal
with that. And so these kinds of issues that people
face who you know, live with food insecurity can be
long lasting.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
So we're very concerned about the long term.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Impact of this cut of SNAP benefits on people who
are trying to put food on their table and their
mental health and their family unity over time and over generations,
you know. And to just follow up on something that
Aaron said, you know, the economic impact. You know, we're
talking about two hundred and twenty million dollars worth of
(08:47):
SNAP benefits in.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
One month alone.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
That's the equivalent of two point six billion dollars over
the course of the year, which translates into over four
billion dollars of economic activity. When you think of that
multiplier effect of you know, businesses receiving that income, which
represents twenty percent of food retailer's income, and then of
(09:11):
course paying their employees, paying suppliers, those employees in turn
going and spending it in the local economy. All that
economic activity is really really important to our economy, and
without which we're going to feel the impact of it.
It's going to hit people really hard, not only food retailers,
(09:32):
but farmers and of course the people who work for them.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, eron, I want to bring up a point connected
to that, because we've heard a lot of people talking about, well,
the state has a rainy day fund, right, why can't
the state tap into the money that we have set
aside to cover this What is the rising behind that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, first of it's the Federal Nutrition program, right, and
so you know this program started during the Great Depression,
was first piloted then and then during the Kennedy a
year after Kennedy was assassinated, it was formerly passed by Congress.
Federal program. The intention has always been that the federal
government pays for these benefits. It's also an entitlement program,
and what that means is if you're eligible, you get it, right,
(10:11):
and so during economic recessions, a lot more people are
getting it during when the economy might be in a
boom period. So all of those factors and the other
thing I just want to say, and just you know,
Andrews already said that part of the reason this program
was also developed by our government was certainly because nobody
in America should go hungry, but also because it is
an economic engine and an economic stimulus. It was purposely
(10:32):
crafted in a way to feed people and put money
back into our local economies and help drive the economy.
And that's a federal strategy of when our you know,
we're facing you know, federal inflation or federal cost of
living and other strategies. The federal government is the one
who Congress is allocating the resources to pay for this program.
(10:54):
It's never before in the history of the United States
been shut down this program, not during any previous government
jet down, not for you know, any other reason. So
it absolutely should be that said, I think we are
calling on the governor to pull from the Rainy Day
Fund to pay for it because the consequences are so
(11:16):
big if we don't pull from the Rainy Day Fund
to pay for this program, if come November fir second, third, fourth,
people aren't getting these supports those fifty five hundred retailers
and farmers are not getting the business. The economic implications
will be bigger than the actual draw from the rainy
Day Fund.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
You folks know, and hopefully all our listeners do, and
if they don't, they they're going to hear it. Now
that you know, the Attorney General of Massachusetts and twenty
one other attorney generals of twenty one other states has
filed a lawsuit against the US Department of Agriculture to
reinstate those funds should indeed they continue to be prohibited
(11:54):
from being issued. And you know, that's really really important
for people to know, and it was only if that fails,
do we urge the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to dip into
the Stabilization Fund otherwise known as the Rainy Day Fund,
which we should remind ourselves you know, is currently at
around eight billion dollars, and the governor at last week's
(12:17):
press statement said, well, you you know, we really have
to subtract three billion dollars from the rainy Day Fund
that we may have to dip into to pay for
federal funds that were clawed back, so that leaves about
five billion. And we know, as we've been talking about
that that two hundred and twenty million dollars will you know,
(12:38):
generate thirty four million dollars in economic activity. And in fact,
you know, Moody's, which is a financial investment firm, you know,
hardly a bastion of left leaning politics, you know, has
said that the SNAP program is the most powerful federal
economic stimulus program of the federal government.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So why wouldn't we want.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
To leverage that for the benefit of everyone across the
United States of America?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And I mean I get where the governor this is frustrating.
This money's already been allocated. This money is sitting at
the US Department of Agriculture. But as Andrew said, I
just want to echo, the consequences are too big of
not right. And it's for those one point one million people,
it's for the places that they work, It's for the
three hundred and seventy thousand kids that are including that
one point one million who you know, kids need food
(13:34):
to grow, right, and if they're going without the health
consequences and the health costs associated with not doing something
or just too big.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Let's talk more about the food banks for a second, Andrew,
because I'd really like to hear more about the demand
that you all have been seeing, not just because of
this potential snap crisis, which of course is a big deal,
but over the past few months, I mean, inflation has
been tough. You've got furloughed federal workers, You've got people
getting laid off left right sideways from businesses all over
the Commonwealth. Tell me about the demand and how you're
(14:06):
able to try and keep up with all of this
demand or are you not at this point able to
do so well.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
We're definitely able to keep up with the demand, and
we're grateful to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for its investment
in the Massachusetts Emergency Food Assistance Program, which provides funding
to the four food banks of the Commonwealth to purchase food,
much of which is purchased from local farmers and other
wholesalers or manufacturers in the Commonwealth. And that's critically important,
(14:35):
as is the federal government's t FAT program, which is
the emergency food Assistance program.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Between the two.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
In our case, that constitutes almost half of all of
the food that we provide to one hundred and ninety
nine food pantries and meal sites and ultimately over one
hundred and twenty four thousand individuals every month. You know,
the other half of our inventory comes from the very
important private food industry that provides us with donated food
(15:04):
that we're again able to receive, store and distribute through.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Our respective warehouses.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And by respective, I mean the four food banks of
the Commonwealth, the Greater Boston Food Bank, the Merrimack Valley
Food Bank, the Worcester County Food Bank, and ourselves the
Food Bank of Western Massachusetts that combine provide food to
over eight hundred local, independent, nonprofit and faith based food pantries,
(15:32):
meal sites, and shelters, and ultimately to over a million
people across the Commonwealth, the equivalent of over one hundred.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
And eleven million meals.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
But again that's dwarfed by the SNAP program. For every
meal that we provide, SNAP provides nine meals, so there's
no way that we could make up for the loss
of SNAP benefits. We will do our best, and we're
reaching out to our individual donors and private food retailers
(16:08):
and foundations to support us. I know there's a United
Way Response Emergency Response Fund, but we also encourage people
to go to our respective websites to learn about the
issue of food insecurity, including Project breads, because without that,
people won't realize how it affects people in three hundred
(16:31):
and sixty one municipalities across the Commonwealth, people who might
live nearby you, or sit in the pew next to you,
or go to this YMCA that you go to, or
so on and so forth. So we are definitely going
to be stretched thin, and we are already receiving calls
(16:53):
left and right, as I'm sure Project bread is as well.
People are confused, they're scared, they're angry, they.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Don't know where to turn to.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We're providing expanded distributions and amounts of food to pantries
and meal sites, but again, we don't believe that we'll
be able to meet the demand that's likely to unfold
in the coming weeks, especially with not only the high
cost of living that's stubbornly high, but the loss of
(17:24):
the Snap benefits for the month of November.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Now, Aaron, I saw something going around online. I kind
of want to talk to you about this really quick.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So here in Massachusetts we have the Hip program through
the farmers' markets. I saw something where if you have
even just a dollar left on your Snap benefits, you
can access this money. Kind of break this down for
me really quick. It seems like a really good program
to have.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's an awesome program. So the HIP, it's called the
Healthy Incentives Program, it's the Massachusetts program where the goal again,
you know, just like SNAP, it's about feeding people but
also helping a key industry in our state, which is
our farmers, our local farmers. And so for people we're
on SNAP, for every dollar they spend on local produce
(18:05):
at a farmer's market in Massachusetts that HIP certified, they
get twice the money back, right, And so it's it's awesome.
It's state funded and that's why that program can keep
going even when the federal money is suspended. But I
just I also I want to just say this because
it's we're having this conversation and I'm listening to all
the stuff Andrew is doing, and I've been on the
(18:27):
phone with the other food bank leaders this morning about
all the work that we're doing. We're in crisis mode.
This is all man made. We are not This is
not the hurricane that is in the Caribbean right now.
This is not a global pandemic. We we will rise
to the occasion in those moments, and we have and
we always will and we're rising to the occasion now.
(18:47):
But this is somewhat insanity, if I can just name it,
that this is all of us working around the cloth
to build in the gap for a program that has
never been shut off before in the history of the
United States, that the funding has already been allocated for
and it's sitting in a fund, but the Trump administration
is refusing to release and coming up with ways like
(19:11):
this hip strategy of helping people stretch their dollars. I mean,
this is the most preventable crisis I've worked on in
my entire career.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
We know, and we kind of Aaron kind of touched
on it, that the reason why people are food and
secure is because there are so many barriers to opportunity
and to just survive. And we know that many other
federal programs are being slashed as well, that that support housing,
affordable housing, transportation utilities including heat as we've approached the
(19:46):
winter season, childcare. The list goes on and on, and
we're hearing it from our colleagues, and we're hearing it
from people as we have for some time and without
which you know, these are the re reasons why people
seek food assistance because they're unable to perhaps earn a
(20:06):
wage that supports their family. And in the absence of that,
now on top of it, and for some time actually
there hasn't been adequate federal and state investments in programs
to ensure that people can access affordable housing, transportation, childcare,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, it's definitely a systemic issue. And then we're seeing
the cracks in the system here. Where do we go
from here?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I mean, I think, you know, we say it at
Project Bread constantly that hunger is a policy choice, and
I think that this moment really emphasizes that more than
any other moment and probably in the history of our country.
You know, this is not you know, this is something
that we could solve. Right if the federal government said
to me and Andrew, hey, we're going to solve hunger.
(20:50):
What do you guys need to do? We actually don't
need that much time to figure that out. Right. This
isn't like, you know, a disease that we don't know
what the cure is and there needs to be more research.
We know exactly what needs to have the food easy one,
The food is there the retailers are there, the distribution
methods are there. It's all a matter of political will.
So where we go from here, I think it's what
(21:10):
are the Americans going to do? What are the forty
two million Americans who are losing the support? Are they
going to say enough is enough? Are they going to
stand up? And that's why it Project Bread. In addition
to working on the programmatic response to alleviate the suffering
of people, we are also simultaneously focused on the movement,
building the coalition, building the policy work to make sure
(21:34):
that we are you know, building that political will to
never let this happen again and to solve in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I do believe we have a challenge, many challenges ahead
of us, and one of them is is in public
education and awareness because we need.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
To have the social will as well.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And you know that really I believe crosses all political
divisions and economic class when we realize that ultimately, if
we're going to be a strong nation, we have to
have strong economies, we have to have strong families. So
there's the intersection of family values and strong economies. You
(22:16):
know that are really, you know, very conservative principles if
you think about it. And values that stem that undergird
that that I think, you know, people from both sides
of the aisle, let's just say, can agree upon it.
We just really have to be able to sit down
and think about it and realize that, you know, if
(22:36):
we're going to have a strong America, we have to
have strong families, we have to have strong communities, and
to do that, we have to invest in them, just
like we would in a business. And the way to
do that is to have you know, a federal state
and private partnership.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
And by federal and state, I mean government, of course.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
And I believe we can do that if we, you know,
get cut through the noise and the myths that have
been persisting for far too long, many of them which
step back to, you know, the the period of of
of the you know, the the industrial era of our country,
(23:17):
and we're far beyond that, you know, we're you know, two.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Hundred years later.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Uh, These these myths are still persisting, and we really
need to cut through them and think about them and
what's important to us as a society and as a nation.
When we're increasingly faced by a competition from from abroad
that's challenging, you know, our UH, our credibility UH and
(23:45):
our ability to compete at a global level.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
What is your message to people listening who are concerned
about the situation that's unfolding right now.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Well, there's organizations like Project bread and the Food Bank
of Western Masts that are preparing and fighting at the
same time, fighting against this policy decision and ask for help.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think that that's a big piece of this is
one point one million people across our state. Resources like
Project breads Food Source Hotline which is one eight hundred
six four five eight three three three were there to
provide confidential support to help you identify food resources. And
if you're able to help, I would say, get in,
get in the fight with us, right, join me hunger history,
(24:24):
and just as Andrew is saying, this is an issue
we shall all come together around, right, this is an
issue that we should all agree that everyone in America
should have access to food and if you have the resources,
donate to the organizations who are leading this work across
the state.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Well, we believe that everyone should have access to nutritious
food without barriers and stigma, and so people should feel
free to reach out to us to learn about the issue. Again,
if you're not one who experiences or live with food
and security, and if you do, we're available to connect
you with food resources in your community. You can go
(25:00):
to our website foodbank WMA dot org.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
We have a food.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Finder, and we have telephon numbers for lots of other
resources in Western Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Thank you both for your time, for your education, for
your efforts on this, and it's really going to be helpful,
I think for a lot of people who have a
lot of questions about what's unfolding right now. So thank
you so much for both being here for having us
have a safe and healthy weekend. Please join me again
next week for another edition of the show. I'm Nicole
Davis from WBZ News Radio on iHeartRadio.
From WBZ News Radio in Boston. This is New England Weekend.
Each week right here, we come together, we talk about
all the topics important to you and the place where
you live. It's great to have you back with us
this week. I'm Nicole Davis. Here in Massachusetts and all
over the country, local officials, food banks, and advocates have
been scrambling upon word that November Snap assistance may not
(00:29):
be funded by the federal government. Members of the Trump
administration have been citing the ongoing government shutdown for this
and refusing to tap into federal contingency funds. State leaders
say the hundreds of millions of dollars a month, despite
there being a rainy day fund, cannot be covered by
local budgets. With this developing story, in the Conversation, I
wanted to bring back two local leaders in the food
(00:50):
insecurity space. They've been here before. They're here to answer
some questions that I've been getting in seeing about the
situation and questions you may have as well. Aaron McLear,
president of Project Bred and nonprofit in Boston working to
end hunger. Andrew Morehouse is the executive director of the
Food Bank of Western Massachusetts. In chickapee and a programming
(01:10):
note here. The following discussion was recorded earlier this week.
The situation around the shutdown and SNAP is developing by
the hour, but despite some of these particulars changing, the
information here is still relevant. So let's get to it.
Thank you both for coming back to the show. Let's
just jump right in. Aaron, give us a quick rundown
about what SNAP is and what led up to this situation.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sure. SNAP is the supplemental nutrition assistance program. It used
to be called food stamps, and a lot of folks
still know it as that term. So it provides that
supplemental benefits for folks that need help putting food on
the table. It's really intended for certain populations. Children, one
of the biggest ones with disabilities, senior citizens' veterans, and
(01:56):
then people who are working but not making enough money
to get by. So people in the service sector who
their wages are just not you know, consistent or high enough,
consistently high enough to meet their basic needs, and so
this program allows them to put food on the table.
It's on an electronic card and people can go to
the grocery store and purchase food with their card. That way,
(02:18):
so with that approach, it's the most effective and efficient
solution because people are able to go to the fifty
five hundred retailers in our state and purchase their food there,
and it puts money back into the economy by doing that.
For every dollar spent on SNAP, a dollar fifty is
generating economic activity. So this program is also an economic
engine and economic stimulus.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Now, how many people would you say in Massachusetts are
currently using Snap at this.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Point one point one million.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
That's a lot of people. And you know, people talk
all the time. I see a lot of talk online.
Never read the comments, but I do because apparently I'm
a masochist, and people are saying, Oh, these people don't work,
they're lazy, they're this and that. Give me, I guess
you're rebuttal to that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Sure, well, there's a work requirement, so people are working, right,
And the folks who are not working are those groups
I just mentioned to you children, you know, people with
disabilities and senior citizens. And I think we would agree
that they don't need to be working or not. You know,
it should be part of the exemption. But there's this
huge misconception. We're actually hearing it coming out of Washington, DC.
(03:19):
Right now, I've heard some US senators say, you know,
this will get people back to work by cutting off
these benefits for forty two million Americans. That is just
not true. Most of the people on this if they're
not one of those groups, are working. They're just not
making enough money. So it's not going to result in
any positive outcome. Unfortunately, it's only going to result in
(03:43):
people who are working hard not being able to feed
themselves and feed their kids. That might mean they're not
able to show up to work right because they can't
meet that basic need. People's health is going to be compromised,
and then all of this money in our economy is
going to go away. And so even if you know,
even if you're not going about the one point one
million people like Andrew and I are, you should be
(04:04):
concerned about what this means for our economy, both here
in Massachusetts and nationally.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Well, then people would, then, I think, come back to
that and say, well, why don't you just get another job,
or why don't you just work more put the kids
in daycare? But it's not that simple.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
It's not that simple. So I think work more. We
know people that are working eighty hours a week and
are on snap. They are working the day shift, the
night shift. They're just not making enough money to get by.
And so it's not a matter of working more hours.
It's a matter of the fact that their jobs are
not paying them enough. And there's lots of macroeconomic forces
(04:36):
contributing to that. And then a childcare one is really
really challenging. We have the most expensive childcare in the country.
And so, yeah, I know from our footsores hotline, We've
talked to moms and I have friends in my own
circle who want to be working. They're teachers, they're social workers,
they love they want to be in the classroom that
they want to be working with folks. But when your
(04:57):
salary is less than the cost of child care, you
got to make an economic decision for your family. Right
if I go back to work, does that mean that
we're actually going to be hemorrhaging money for me to
be able to work. And so that's the childcare crisis
that we have in our state and in our country,
And I think it all goes back to this has
(05:17):
been unfairly painted as individual failings. Right, this narrative of
get a job, don't be lazy, go back to work,
and it's just not true. It's just it's actually inaccurate.
And the truth is that these are systemic challenges that
we're facing, the systemic challenges of rising inflation and wages
having kept paid. So even if you're somebody in the
(05:40):
past five years who just has gotten a raise, but
the cost of everything around you has gone up significantly,
you're probably struggling. So it's not an individual failing, it's
really a larger systemic one.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Not to mention that we live in one of the
highest cost of living states in the entire country, top three,
I'd have to say, so that's a doesn't help the
situation either. In Andrew, you know, talk to me a
little bit about the demand you're now seeing at the
Western Massachusetts Food Bank and your other pantries are seeing
as well because of that.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Sure, well, the Food Bank Western Massachusetts serves the four
counties of Western Massachusetts, and in fact, a recent study
by the Greater Boston Food Bank estimates that Hamden County,
which is a more urban area that has spring the
city of Springfield, which is the third largest city in
the Commonwealth, and Franklin County, which is a very rural
(06:32):
community between that they have the highest food insecurity rates
of all counties in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. So this
is a problem that people across the commonwealth face, even
out here in Western Massachusetts where we're providing food assistants
to over one hundred and twenty four thousand people every
month and there are one hundred and ninety one thousand SNAP.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Recipients, So that immediately.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Tells you that there are moreeople who receive SNAP then
go to seek food assistance, and that maybe because they
don't need it, but more often than not, that same
Greater Boston Food Bank studies showed that seventy five percent
of people who receive SNAP benefits also need to seek
out food assistance. And it could be maybe just at
(07:18):
the end of the month when their SNAP benefits have
run out, or you know, an emergency that can take
place in anybody's live, a car lives, a car can
break down, you know, there can be other issue, family
issues that happened, and you know, that just reminds me
of a story that a good friend of the Food
Bank told me yesterday, who was food and secure and
(07:41):
homeless when she was a young mother. Her kids now
are in their early twenties, and she shared with me
that she's going through a really rough time now because
her kids, who are at a stage of their lives
where they're understanding their childhood a little better, are actually
facing trauma, are and hearing the stories of the Snap
(08:02):
benefit cuts. They are really traumatized because all these memories
of their childhood are coming back and that's causing her
our front of the food bank to have to deal
with that. And so these kinds of issues that people
face who you know, live with food insecurity can be
long lasting.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
So we're very concerned about the long term.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Impact of this cut of SNAP benefits on people who
are trying to put food on their table and their
mental health and their family unity over time and over generations,
you know. And to just follow up on something that
Aaron said, you know, the economic impact. You know, we're
talking about two hundred and twenty million dollars worth of
(08:47):
SNAP benefits in.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
One month alone.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
That's the equivalent of two point six billion dollars over
the course of the year, which translates into over four
billion dollars of economic activity. When you think of that
multiplier effect of you know, businesses receiving that income, which
represents twenty percent of food retailer's income, and then of
(09:11):
course paying their employees, paying suppliers, those employees in turn
going and spending it in the local economy. All that
economic activity is really really important to our economy, and
without which we're going to feel the impact of it.
It's going to hit people really hard, not only food retailers,
(09:32):
but farmers and of course the people who work for them.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, eron, I want to bring up a point connected
to that, because we've heard a lot of people talking about, well,
the state has a rainy day fund, right, why can't
the state tap into the money that we have set
aside to cover this What is the rising behind that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, first of it's the Federal Nutrition program, right, and
so you know this program started during the Great Depression,
was first piloted then and then during the Kennedy a
year after Kennedy was assassinated, it was formerly passed by Congress.
Federal program. The intention has always been that the federal
government pays for these benefits. It's also an entitlement program,
and what that means is if you're eligible, you get it, right,
(10:11):
and so during economic recessions, a lot more people are
getting it during when the economy might be in a
boom period. So all of those factors and the other
thing I just want to say, and just you know,
Andrews already said that part of the reason this program
was also developed by our government was certainly because nobody
in America should go hungry, but also because it is
an economic engine and an economic stimulus. It was purposely
(10:32):
crafted in a way to feed people and put money
back into our local economies and help drive the economy.
And that's a federal strategy of when our you know,
we're facing you know, federal inflation or federal cost of
living and other strategies. The federal government is the one
who Congress is allocating the resources to pay for this program.
(10:54):
It's never before in the history of the United States
been shut down this program, not during any previous government
jet down, not for you know, any other reason. So
it absolutely should be that said, I think we are
calling on the governor to pull from the Rainy Day
Fund to pay for it because the consequences are so
(11:16):
big if we don't pull from the Rainy Day Fund
to pay for this program, if come November fir second, third, fourth,
people aren't getting these supports those fifty five hundred retailers
and farmers are not getting the business. The economic implications
will be bigger than the actual draw from the rainy
Day Fund.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
You folks know, and hopefully all our listeners do, and
if they don't, they they're going to hear it. Now
that you know, the Attorney General of Massachusetts and twenty
one other attorney generals of twenty one other states has
filed a lawsuit against the US Department of Agriculture to
reinstate those funds should indeed they continue to be prohibited
(11:54):
from being issued. And you know, that's really really important
for people to know, and it was only if that fails,
do we urge the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to dip into
the Stabilization Fund otherwise known as the Rainy Day Fund,
which we should remind ourselves you know, is currently at
around eight billion dollars, and the governor at last week's
(12:17):
press statement said, well, you you know, we really have
to subtract three billion dollars from the rainy Day Fund
that we may have to dip into to pay for
federal funds that were clawed back, so that leaves about
five billion. And we know, as we've been talking about
that that two hundred and twenty million dollars will you know,
(12:38):
generate thirty four million dollars in economic activity. And in fact,
you know, Moody's, which is a financial investment firm, you know,
hardly a bastion of left leaning politics, you know, has
said that the SNAP program is the most powerful federal
economic stimulus program of the federal government.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
So why wouldn't we want.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
To leverage that for the benefit of everyone across the
United States of America?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And I mean I get where the governor this is frustrating.
This money's already been allocated. This money is sitting at
the US Department of Agriculture. But as Andrew said, I
just want to echo, the consequences are too big of
not right. And it's for those one point one million people,
it's for the places that they work, It's for the
three hundred and seventy thousand kids that are including that
one point one million who you know, kids need food
(13:34):
to grow, right, and if they're going without the health
consequences and the health costs associated with not doing something
or just too big.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Let's talk more about the food banks for a second, Andrew,
because I'd really like to hear more about the demand
that you all have been seeing, not just because of
this potential snap crisis, which of course is a big deal,
but over the past few months, I mean, inflation has
been tough. You've got furloughed federal workers, You've got people
getting laid off left right sideways from businesses all over
the Commonwealth. Tell me about the demand and how you're
(14:06):
able to try and keep up with all of this
demand or are you not at this point able to
do so well.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
We're definitely able to keep up with the demand, and
we're grateful to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for its investment
in the Massachusetts Emergency Food Assistance Program, which provides funding
to the four food banks of the Commonwealth to purchase food,
much of which is purchased from local farmers and other
wholesalers or manufacturers in the Commonwealth. And that's critically important,
(14:35):
as is the federal government's t FAT program, which is
the emergency food Assistance program.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Between the two.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
In our case, that constitutes almost half of all of
the food that we provide to one hundred and ninety
nine food pantries and meal sites and ultimately over one
hundred and twenty four thousand individuals every month. You know,
the other half of our inventory comes from the very
important private food industry that provides us with donated food
(15:04):
that we're again able to receive, store and distribute through.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Our respective warehouses.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And by respective, I mean the four food banks of
the Commonwealth, the Greater Boston Food Bank, the Merrimack Valley
Food Bank, the Worcester County Food Bank, and ourselves the
Food Bank of Western Massachusetts that combine provide food to
over eight hundred local, independent, nonprofit and faith based food pantries,
(15:32):
meal sites, and shelters, and ultimately to over a million
people across the Commonwealth, the equivalent of over one hundred.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
And eleven million meals.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
But again that's dwarfed by the SNAP program. For every
meal that we provide, SNAP provides nine meals, so there's
no way that we could make up for the loss
of SNAP benefits. We will do our best, and we're
reaching out to our individual donors and private food retailers
(16:08):
and foundations to support us. I know there's a United
Way Response Emergency Response Fund, but we also encourage people
to go to our respective websites to learn about the
issue of food insecurity, including Project breads, because without that,
people won't realize how it affects people in three hundred
(16:31):
and sixty one municipalities across the Commonwealth, people who might
live nearby you, or sit in the pew next to you,
or go to this YMCA that you go to, or
so on and so forth. So we are definitely going
to be stretched thin, and we are already receiving calls
(16:53):
left and right, as I'm sure Project bread is as well.
People are confused, they're scared, they're angry, they.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Don't know where to turn to.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We're providing expanded distributions and amounts of food to pantries
and meal sites, but again, we don't believe that we'll
be able to meet the demand that's likely to unfold
in the coming weeks, especially with not only the high
cost of living that's stubbornly high, but the loss of
(17:24):
the Snap benefits for the month of November.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Now, Aaron, I saw something going around online. I kind
of want to talk to you about this really quick.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So here in Massachusetts we have the Hip program through
the farmers' markets. I saw something where if you have
even just a dollar left on your Snap benefits, you
can access this money. Kind of break this down for
me really quick. It seems like a really good program
to have.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's an awesome program. So the HIP, it's called the
Healthy Incentives Program, it's the Massachusetts program where the goal again,
you know, just like SNAP, it's about feeding people but
also helping a key industry in our state, which is
our farmers, our local farmers. And so for people we're
on SNAP, for every dollar they spend on local produce
(18:05):
at a farmer's market in Massachusetts that HIP certified, they
get twice the money back, right, And so it's it's awesome.
It's state funded and that's why that program can keep
going even when the federal money is suspended. But I
just I also I want to just say this because
it's we're having this conversation and I'm listening to all
the stuff Andrew is doing, and I've been on the
(18:27):
phone with the other food bank leaders this morning about
all the work that we're doing. We're in crisis mode.
This is all man made. We are not This is
not the hurricane that is in the Caribbean right now.
This is not a global pandemic. We we will rise
to the occasion in those moments, and we have and
we always will and we're rising to the occasion now.
(18:47):
But this is somewhat insanity, if I can just name it,
that this is all of us working around the cloth
to build in the gap for a program that has
never been shut off before in the history of the
United States, that the funding has already been allocated for
and it's sitting in a fund, but the Trump administration
is refusing to release and coming up with ways like
(19:11):
this hip strategy of helping people stretch their dollars. I mean,
this is the most preventable crisis I've worked on in
my entire career.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
We know, and we kind of Aaron kind of touched
on it, that the reason why people are food and
secure is because there are so many barriers to opportunity
and to just survive. And we know that many other
federal programs are being slashed as well, that that support housing,
affordable housing, transportation utilities including heat as we've approached the
(19:46):
winter season, childcare. The list goes on and on, and
we're hearing it from our colleagues, and we're hearing it
from people as we have for some time and without
which you know, these are the re reasons why people
seek food assistance because they're unable to perhaps earn a
(20:06):
wage that supports their family. And in the absence of that,
now on top of it, and for some time actually
there hasn't been adequate federal and state investments in programs
to ensure that people can access affordable housing, transportation, childcare,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, it's definitely a systemic issue. And then we're seeing
the cracks in the system here. Where do we go
from here?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I mean, I think, you know, we say it at
Project Bread constantly that hunger is a policy choice, and
I think that this moment really emphasizes that more than
any other moment and probably in the history of our country.
You know, this is not you know, this is something
that we could solve. Right if the federal government said
to me and Andrew, hey, we're going to solve hunger.
(20:50):
What do you guys need to do? We actually don't
need that much time to figure that out. Right. This
isn't like, you know, a disease that we don't know
what the cure is and there needs to be more research.
We know exactly what needs to have the food easy one,
The food is there the retailers are there, the distribution
methods are there. It's all a matter of political will.
So where we go from here, I think it's what
(21:10):
are the Americans going to do? What are the forty
two million Americans who are losing the support? Are they
going to say enough is enough? Are they going to
stand up? And that's why it Project Bread. In addition
to working on the programmatic response to alleviate the suffering
of people, we are also simultaneously focused on the movement,
building the coalition, building the policy work to make sure
(21:34):
that we are you know, building that political will to
never let this happen again and to solve in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I do believe we have a challenge, many challenges ahead
of us, and one of them is is in public
education and awareness because we need.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
To have the social will as well.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
And you know that really I believe crosses all political
divisions and economic class when we realize that ultimately, if
we're going to be a strong nation, we have to
have strong economies, we have to have strong families. So
there's the intersection of family values and strong economies. You
(22:16):
know that are really, you know, very conservative principles if
you think about it. And values that stem that undergird
that that I think, you know, people from both sides
of the aisle, let's just say, can agree upon it.
We just really have to be able to sit down
and think about it and realize that, you know, if
(22:36):
we're going to have a strong America, we have to
have strong families, we have to have strong communities, and
to do that, we have to invest in them, just
like we would in a business. And the way to
do that is to have you know, a federal state
and private partnership.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
And by federal and state, I mean government, of course.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
And I believe we can do that if we, you know,
get cut through the noise and the myths that have
been persisting for far too long, many of them which
step back to, you know, the the period of of
of the you know, the the industrial era of our country,
(23:17):
and we're far beyond that, you know, we're you know, two.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Hundred years later.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Uh, These these myths are still persisting, and we really
need to cut through them and think about them and
what's important to us as a society and as a nation.
When we're increasingly faced by a competition from from abroad
that's challenging, you know, our UH, our credibility UH and
(23:45):
our ability to compete at a global level.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
What is your message to people listening who are concerned
about the situation that's unfolding right now.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Well, there's organizations like Project bread and the Food Bank
of Western Masts that are preparing and fighting at the
same time, fighting against this policy decision and ask for help.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think that that's a big piece of this is
one point one million people across our state. Resources like
Project breads Food Source Hotline which is one eight hundred
six four five eight three three three were there to
provide confidential support to help you identify food resources. And
if you're able to help, I would say, get in,
get in the fight with us, right, join me hunger history,
(24:24):
and just as Andrew is saying, this is an issue
we shall all come together around, right, this is an
issue that we should all agree that everyone in America
should have access to food and if you have the resources,
donate to the organizations who are leading this work across
the state.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Well, we believe that everyone should have access to nutritious
food without barriers and stigma, and so people should feel
free to reach out to us to learn about the issue. Again,
if you're not one who experiences or live with food
and security, and if you do, we're available to connect
you with food resources in your community. You can go
(25:00):
to our website foodbank WMA dot org.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
We have a food.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Finder, and we have telephon numbers for lots of other
resources in Western Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Thank you both for your time, for your education, for
your efforts on this, and it's really going to be helpful,
I think for a lot of people who have a
lot of questions about what's unfolding right now. So thank
you so much for both being here for having us
have a safe and healthy weekend. Please join me again
next week for another edition of the show. I'm Nicole
Davis from WBZ News Radio on iHeartRadio.
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