May 13, 2023 • 40 mins
Justin is joined by Andrew Perez of The Lever to discuss his story on Greed-flation , then Katy Fairman, formerly of WFT1 and now just slaying it as a freelance F1 writer for Formula E and SI.com joins the show to discuss the latest F1 news, including rumors of a Daniel RIcciardo return!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
The time. I you're devastatingly handsomeand always humble hosts justin the kids of
the People's champ But quite a weekhere in the granted States and early around
the country, has it not.We started with a couple of different mass
casual events in Texas and ended withDonald Trump doing a town hall in New
(00:32):
Hampshire, where CNN decided it wasa good idea to give Donald Trump a
microphone and put a camera from himand said, hey, here you go,
say whatever you feel like. We'llgive you a little bit of pushback,
but other than that, we're gonnaput one of your rallies on TV.
And then very quickly I think theyfigured out that maybe that wasn't a
great idea because they cut the rallysharp. But nonetheless, coming up on
(00:54):
the show today, I talked toKatie Ferrerman, who is a Formula one
reporter and a Formula E reporter.You might know what Formula one is,
but some of you out there mightbe saying, what the hell is Formula
E? Well, good news foryou, because we talk about that and
kind of tell you about what FormulaE is. It's actually pretty fun.
Katie is a very fun interview.We talked to Katie about all Swarts formula
(01:14):
one topic, so that will becoming up. Also Andrew Perez of levernews
dot com which I think I calledthe lever dot com like six times in
the interview, So my bad,Andrew. But Andrew has an article with
a couple of other co authors abouthow actually inflation was kind of the fault
or at least at this point,of corporations jacking up prices, and this
(01:36):
got poop pooed a lot about Idon't know, like anywhere from a year
to more ago. And if youbring this up, folks e commists would
say, oh, no, no, why would corporations be greedy? Greed
is priced into inflation. No,no, that's not the case. But
then if you're like me, youlook at your electric bill, your electric
bill would have doubled. Trying tobuy a car, the price would have
(01:57):
gone up like seven thousand dollars threeyears for a Toyota Corolla or whatnot.
And he'd say, is the CEOof ever source is his paycheck taking a
haircut? No, oh, okay, they're still making the same profit margin.
It's just you and me on theback end. Are the ones paying
for it, gotcha. So maybeinflation wasn't so inflating and maybe a little
(02:17):
more greedy. But Andrew gets intothat. We talk about that all that
is coming up here on the shore, All that is coming up here on
today's show. As always, ifyou missed any portion of the live broadcast,
download the podcast anywhere you get podcastThe bosses like me to say downloaded
on the iHeartRadio app, but youcan get it pretty much anywhere you get
(02:38):
podcasts. So I'll leave a reviewfive stars, all that sort of crap
that I guess that helps me out. I don't know. I don't see
any more money for it, butit helps more people find the show.
And then maybe that one get yourboy some more money, because we gotta
pay for car repairs for the boyscar, we gotta pay for college tuition.
We got a whole lot of stuffthat's going on because capitalism. But
anyway, coming up, we willtalk to Andrew Prenn of levernews dot com.
(03:01):
That is next. This is overtime. Keep it here during a sound
overtime is Andrew Perez of the Lever'sGot the Story titled with two other of
authors, Matthew Cunningham, Cook andDavid Serata suttle how Pundan's inflation myth crushed
(03:23):
the working class. Andrew thinks forbeing on the show, of course,
thanks for having me. Uh yeah, nope, no, no, my
pleasure. So inflation, of coursehas been a you know, to anybody
that has to spend money and anything. It's been a big deal since really
since since COVID kicked in really hyperinflation. But what what I had found,
and I guess what you're reporting kindof bears out, is it seems to
(03:46):
be so much that people were makingextra money. It seemed like a corporation's
kind of took advantage of what was, you know, genuine inflation to to
jacko prices on things. And nowthat inflation is starting to ease a bit,
they are not they're not pulling backon rains. Is that what you
guys founded this article? Yeah,totally. Um, you know, it's
really been the story of the pandemiceconomy, especially sort of since the economy
(04:11):
um, you know, reopened.Um has been that corporations have been booking
record profits and that they are contributingvery substantially to the price hikes that people
are experiencing when they when they goto the store, um, or you
know, even when like businesses orare buying uh, you know, buying
their own sort of goods and servicesand passing them on to consumers. Yeah.
(04:31):
So it's it's become a it's becomea real giant issue, and it's
one that um, you know,what we focused in this piece on is
that the you know, sort ofWashington pundit class, the wanks and economists
in Washington all sort of um,you know, had blamed really any other
factor other than corporate profiteering, despiteum, you know, some really compelling
(04:55):
evidence that that corporate profits are arereally significantly driving inflation. Yeah, it
sure seemed like, you know,everybody was asked to take to take a
hit during the pandemic and then butbut you know, your your giant corporations,
your Amazons, your your Netflix isuh all those folks really came out
looking pretty good at the end ofit. And the discourse you know,
(05:18):
on on on major and major newspapers, major radio stations, including you know
stations including this station that you hearthis show on, has been no,
people are making too much money andthat's why inflation is the thing. We
got to take money out of theeconomy. You saw interest rates being raised.
Uh, it seems like even majormedia outlets are kind of coming around
on, well, maybe we screwedthat one up. Yeah, yeah,
(05:41):
I mean just just recently the WallStreet Journal, you know, reported how
that that inflation has been um,you know, more stubborn than than was
originally expected, and um, youknow, economists are are coming around to
the conclusion that it's because businesses areusing this rare opportunity to boost their profit
margins um. And that's you know, that's sort of what a lot of
(06:01):
the research here is saying. It'syou know, it's not that there aren't
other factors inflation in inflation. Obviously, there's been you know, a supply
chain crunch, there's you know,there are labor shortages. I do think
that's real. Um, But youknow, businesses are using all of those
as this sort of um story thatthey can tell um as to why they
(06:23):
need to raise their prices. Andwhen you know, when everyone is raising
their prices, you know, umas you know, sort of aggressively,
it definitely becomes a lot easier tosell that that idea, right that like,
oh, every business really needs todo this right now. It's just
the pandemic, it's just the supplychain. It's you know, uh,
(06:43):
pick your reason. But that's andthat's actually what um. You know,
this this chief economist at UBS hassaid is that there's that businesses are finding
they actually have this like story thatthey can spin here. Um, that
they that they have sort of theability to raise prices, um sort of
indefinitely just increasingly so um, solong as they have a story to spin.
(07:10):
Yeah, it's kind of like thefrog in the pot of water,
right, you know, prices getraised a little bit that we kind of
get used to it, the shockwears off. You just keep paying that
price. But it seems as though, uh, you know, corporations might
have got a little bit over theirskis. Uh when it when it comes
to when it comes to this,because when you look at the you know,
if you're a publicly traded corporation,eventually you have to you know,
(07:30):
publish some some quarterly earnings. Andwhen they when they when the profits are
through the roof, I think,you know, Joe Sixpack looks around says,
wait a minute, what the hell'sgoing on here? I you know,
if we're all feeling the crunch.Why why aren't you feeling the crunch
along with me? Yeah? Yeah, I mean it's funny. Despite the
really sort of extensive narrative that wethat we saw from the corporate media class
(07:53):
and and you know, pundits andWalks and Washington all that kind of stuff.
Um, I do think that youknow, the actual public really kind
of has understood that that they've beengetting overcharged, right Like I like poles
do. Poles do bear that outthat people, you know, place more
blame on you know, corporate profiteeringthan any kind of administration decision. We're
(08:16):
talking with. Andrew Perez of thelever dot com has a story on how
Punan's inflation myth crushed the working class. There was a term, uh that
was kind of coined by this calleda greenflation, which is as far as
marketing goes, it seems to bea good term that can stick, greenflation.
But you had to You had peoplelike Madig Glacias pushing back on this.
(08:39):
You had all sorts of folks,Uh, what do you think was
I mean, I think I canguess what the motivation was, but what
what do you think the motivation wasbehind sort of the you know, big
corporate media spinning this into you know, you know, kind of pushing back
on the green flation uh theory.Yeah, I mean, you know,
I think I definitely think there's somesome like you know, self service happening
(09:01):
here. You know, some ofthese pundits work at um, you know,
the Washington Post that's owned by ownedby Amazon founder Jeff Bezos. Um.
I do think that some people don'treally have like the framework for this
though, right, Like they're like, oh, well, my like econ
one on one textbook taught me,taught me this, and it's like,
okay, that's great, but likeyou know that at the end of the
(09:24):
day, like there are like studiesshowing corporate profits or disproportionately affecting or disproportionately
driving price hikes, like you know, and it's funny some of this I
feel like, um, you know, they're like one of the arguments here
is like, oh, like greedflation, Well, there hasn't been an increase
in greed, and it's like,I'm sorry, that's not that's not actually
(09:46):
what people are talking about. We'renot talking about an inflation of greed so
much as inflation being driven by greed. It's it's really it's really like a
pedantic argument and um, and I'mnot sure. I'm not sure they really
actually understand the real argument here rightby the way, is there a metric
to to measure greed? And dowe know if it's I feel like it
(10:09):
might have gone up? Actually ifif if we're actually measuring that right,
Yeah, I mean, okay,you could make the argument. You can
make the argument for sure, butyeah, I mean, you know,
I think what they're saying is thatlike, oh, there's greed baked into
the process, like all corporate orall companies want to make money, and
it's like that's right here, theyhad, you know, an extraordinary opportunity
(10:31):
to make more money exactly. We'retalking to Andrew Prez of the lever dot
com talking about how corporations kind ofhave taken a big bite out of the
working class now that folks are comingaround like even you know, the Wall
Street Journal, which if if youthink about publications that are kind of dedicated
to smashing the working glass at theexpense of the ruling glass, the Wall
(10:52):
Street Journals kind of the first oneto think of, But even the Wall
Street Journals coming around on the factthat maybe corporations have taken too big of
a bite of the pie here.Uh do we see do we think any
of this is going to start toturn around or is it just a matter
of of the ruling class kind ofweathering the storm here and waiting for people
to get bored to move on totheir the next distraction. Yeah, I
(11:15):
mean I think is there's not muchpressure on them to handle stuff differently.
Um. You know, what we'veseen is that the Federal Reserve has been
like hiking interest rates. It doesIt does seem like and if they've done
so repeatedly, like there is somesense that they're going to slow that down
and stop it soon. Um,so that it might you know, kind
of at least stop the bleeding.Um. But Yeah, it does not
(11:37):
seem like there's you know, muchpressure in Washington. It sort of seems
like, you know, the governmentis actually kind of moving back towards austerity
politics, right like looking to inflictmore pain on on on workers, you
know, like that's that's like goingto be the end result right now of
of you know, these negotiations overthe debt ceiling for instance, Like like
(12:00):
Republicans are pushing to extract cuts tosocial programs. Um, you know,
we're like impose work requirements and medicaidthat kind of thing. Um, create
this really kind of draft expending cuttoo. There's there there's a good story
in the New York Times about thatthis morning. Um. So you know,
I don't think there's much pressure onon Washington policymakers to to like actually
(12:24):
go back assess like did we handlethis right? It sort of seems like
they're moving full steam ahead with withwith you know, another round of austerity
politics. Yeah, which is whileconsidering when we were three years ago in
the height of the pandemic, therewas a moment there where you know,
people were getting you know, uh, you know, the the unemployment supplement.
(12:45):
Um, you know, people alot of people are being lifted out
of poverty, and it seemed likefor for a minute there, and it
was just about a minute that thingswere going to turn around and and government
was going to actually work towards helpingpeople. But it seems to be like
the rubber band effect to that thereare am I wrong about that? No?
I think that's totally right. Um, you know, you're right,
(13:07):
like we did see the government wasyou know, sort of shooting off the
money canon for a while, andand for once it was actually sort of
actually helping um you know, aimedat in helping the working class, and
um, you know, there wasthere was just such a such a negative
reaction to that in Washington from likeyou know, businesses and stuff. You
know, they blamed all that forthis labor shortage. And you know even
(13:30):
now, like there's still a laborshortage. You know, you you remove
you with COVID, you remove alot of people from the workforce, right
like in both both in terms ofa lot of people lost their lives,
a lot of people can't work inpublic now, a lot of and a
lot more people have you know,increasing care responsibilities. So like it's not
a surprise that the labor market didn'tjust fully rebound, right Like we're that
(13:52):
We're sorry. I mean it actuallyhas rebounded, but there's there's still are
shortages that where businesses can't find enoughworkers. And so yeah, anyway,
it created this this um you know, big drive to end pandemic aid UM
and and you know it's it isreally sad, like you know, you
look at um, you know,the medicaid, for instance, had become
(14:15):
a much more generous program um duringthe pandemic, right, and it's you
know, you're talking about probably likelike probably the most comprehensive healthcare program that
we have. It Like it's youknow, like because with Medicare you can
still get hit with all kinds ofcosts, like Medicaid is is not like
(14:35):
that. It is it is afar far superior program for for workers.
UM. So anyway, Yeah,now you're looking at states or getting ready
to and probably already started, youknow, throwing off millions of people off
of Medicaid, and they're going tobe doing it, um strictly due to
administrative reasons, like you miss apiece of mail, you fail to answer
(14:56):
a call, like suddenly you youare you know, you could start losing
your coverage. Um. And that'sthat's the old status quo, and we've
gone back to it. It's it'sreally it's really a sad situation. Yeah,
And it seems like nobody learned anythingfrom from from O eight when all
the wrong people got helped out whenthere was a crisis. You know,
we started off in the pandemic helpingout the right people. People in power
(15:20):
really got got panicked by that.I do think that that that if there's
one thing that's gonna get maybe getpeople on the streets, it's gonna be
uh a Medicaid expansion being rolled back. There's places like New Hampshire, for
example, where the folks are talkingabout making Medicaid expansion permit because it's been
so incredibly wildly popular in Folks likeme that are kind of far on the
(15:41):
left say yeah, you think ifyou if you if if I'm gonna break
my leg and I don't have togo bankrupt over it, maybe that's a
good thing. I don't know,but I think that's gonna lead to pressure
being put up politicians when these thingsstart to get rolled back. Yeah,
I mean I think it's I thinkit totally. You know, have to
see, but you know, youlook at like I mean, I think
(16:03):
you can really trace the history ofJoe Biden's presidency, like just just in
poll numbers versus you know, whatwas happening when when they were actually giving
out money to people, when theywhen they when they were helping people get
on you know, a comprehensive freehealthcare program right right, like you start
(16:23):
trimming the aids, you start trimmingassistants, and his poll numbers are the
worst of any president who is youknow, getting ready to run for reelection
and you know modern history, likehe is polling worse than Donald Trump like
was and before he ran for reelectionand it's um you know, and now
yet again like the talk in Washingtonis is is let's get a buypartisan deal
(16:47):
for spending cuts and like that thatnone of that is going to help make
Joe Biden more popular, like theit is, it is actually designed to
have the complete opposite effect. Yeah, I I never it never fails to
amazebee how many times you can say, uh, well, if we do
good things for people, people likethat, but instead, why don't we
(17:07):
do the opposite? And I justit just blows by mind. By Andrew,
where we're kind of up against theclock here, Uh, Andrew Prez
of the lever dot com? Wherecan people find you? What else are
you working on? I'll the tellthe people where to get more of more
of you? Sure, well,so you can read the Lever. We're
at levernews dot com and my ownTwitter handle is at Andrew Perez DC.
(17:32):
All right, anything we should lookfor coming down the pike on the on
the lever from you? Uh?No, I mean, we're gonna be
talking more about disinflation stuff. Certainlywe're gonna be talking about the debt ceiling.
We're doing a live call in thisafternoon. It's it's Friday. We'll
be doing a live call in onthat um and yeah, so and that
will be available for anyone who wantsto listen to it after the fact.
(17:56):
Cool Andrew, thanks for being onthe show and I hope we can do
this against sometime. Thanks according mehere on overtime from SI dot com and
also writing for Formulae and a hundredother different places. Is the one and
only Katie Fairman. Katie, howare you today? I'm great? Thank
you so much for having me,No, thanks for doing for doing the
show. And you're a bit ofa world traveler at this point. Where
(18:18):
are you joining us from today?And I know you're in England, but
are you in London or which partof England are you in? Um?
I lived down in Brighton, soon the south coast. I've got the
lovely scene nearby. So that's whereI am today. That's where i'm based.
Excellent. Yeah, and I'm inNew Hampshire, you know, in
the New England area. The youcan't really go in the ocean because it's
too damn cold all the time.I imagine it's like that where you are
as well, very much. Soyeah, I haven't adventure off into the
(18:41):
sea like at the moment, sono, no, no, I don't
want to do that ever in NewHampshire either. So so Katie Katie is
an expert not only on Formula Onebut on Formulae as well, which a
lot I think a lot of Americanfans that are gotten into Formula one with
the driver Survive craze maybe kind ofslightly where Formulae. But for those that
(19:03):
aren't familiar with it, can youkind of give a like a quick overview
of what Formulae is and I actuallydig the race something. They're pretty cool,
But can you tell folks what that'sall about? Of course? Yeah,
So Formula E is an all electricracing series. So where Formula One
have engines, power units that kindof stuff, Formulae have power trains and
the racing takes place almost exclusively onstreet circuits. So if that's something that
(19:26):
you're into, then this is theseries for you. The racing is insanely
action packs. We just came awayfrom Monaco, and obviously that's a circuit
that lots of people might assume youcan't overtake him because the streets are narrow.
It's very tight and twisty. Formulacompletely different. I think there are
one hundred and sixteen overtakes in thespace of the race and they're normally about
like half the length of a FormulaOne race, so so much action to
(19:48):
get through. And you've got somany big manufacturers there. You've got the
likes of McLaren, Maserati made Motorsportcome back there. There's all sorts of
people up and down that grid thata really awesome talents as well. Driver
wise. There's some really big namesthere. So it's a really exciting championship.
It's in season nine now. They'vejust entered what's called Gen three,
(20:11):
which is like the third generation ofthe championships. That the cars are lighter,
they're faster, they're more efficient,and it's just a really awesome championship
and like I said, produces somegreat racing. Yeah, the races are
kind of banners too, right,which is the thing that's the coolest about
that's it took me a little bitto use to the sound of the cars
because that's kind of off putting atfirst, but once you get used to
that, the races are wheel towheel, like you said in Monaco that
(20:32):
you know overtakes left right. It'sit's pretty cool. And you write for
Formula E I do. Yeah,So I started writing about Formulaly through my
own website, and then as timehas gone on, formerly obviously saw me,
enjoyed what I was writing about,and now they fought me on freelance
for this season. So yeah,I'll be going to a couple of races.
My next one's actually in Portland inthe US, so I'm very excited
about that. Yeah, so Iwent to They had a race in New
(20:56):
York a few years ago that Iattended, but I'm excited to get back
on US soil and cover that race, so it should be awesome. I'm
assuming this is Portland, Oregon,not Portland, Maine. Portland, Maine's
down the about an hour of theroad from where we are, but Portland,
Oregon, I'm guessing right, Yeah, two different Portland's. There's a
story about how Portland, Oregon pickedtheir name. They flipped a coin too,
(21:18):
and it came up Portland instead ofBoston. That's that's another story for
another day. But so looking atFormula One. Of course, in the
US, Formula one is exploring inpopularity, thanks mostly to the Drive Just
Furvive series. I'll admit that that'sthat I was aware of Formula One.
I knew who you know so LewisHamilton was and Schumacher. Of course in
Airton the Center, I used tokind of have it on the background sometimes
(21:41):
didn't really pay attention to it,didn't have favorites. Once my wife and
I watched Drive to Survive, wewere all in. Even my daughter,
who doesn't like any sport, shegot in. She loves Orlando Norris hates
George Russell for whatever reason. You'dhave to talk to her about that.
But but now you have three USraces and one of the things I like
about Formula one is how not America. And it was, for lack of
a better term, but it's especiallywith this latest Miami Grand Prix, it
(22:04):
seems as though one of the oneskind of embracing some American cheesiness. I
think it would say, how arefolks you know in England and Europe?
In kind of old school f onefans reacting to the americanization of some of
F one's presentations. I think you'realways going to have, like you say,
traditionalists that are like, oh,back in my day wasn't like this
(22:26):
and that kind of thing. ButI'm quite enjoying the little different things that
we're seeing in different race tracks atthe moment. It's kind of unfortunate that
a lot of this maybe cheesiness,as you sort of said, is coming
from the US races. We've hadit before, where I think it was
in Texas, the race circuit ofthe Americas that we had there a few
years ago. They had a similarthing where all the drivers get introduced one
(22:48):
by one by I forget his name, but he's quite like a famous boxer
announcer and that Yeah, yes,that's the one rumble that guy. Yeah,
yeah, totally, And so we'veseen parts of it before. But
yeah, it's certainly certainly been aninteresting change. I don't mind it too
much as long as it's kind ofbalanced and we get at like more access
(23:11):
to other countries and sort of thoseexperiences in different places. So it's not
just all like pointed on the USraces for example, But it's certainly been
an interesting change. But yeah,I don't know. I think at the
moment it's quite harmless and it's justa bit of fun and it's generating a
lot of engagement on social media,lots of people talking about it. I
know that Will i Am has justreleased a new song called The Formula,
(23:33):
which, let's just say, ithasn't been received it very well. It's
lots of people saying it reminds themof an S and L skit, which
you know, take on that asyou will, but it does get stuck
in your head a bit, doesn'tit. Oh, it's been in my
head all week. It's maybe agood thing, maybe not, but yeah,
it's it's been. It's been.I'm liking it so far that I'll
(23:56):
say that much. Okay, yeah, maybe just the right amount right now,
But you know, want to youdon't want to get crazy with it.
So that's that's. It's a littlejust way till Las Vegas. If
I think Miami was something, Ican only imagine what they're going to do
in Vegas. It's going to beit's gonna be something else. I'll say
that, it really is. They'regoing to people behind F one and probably
racking their brains right now as toall of the crazy things that they can
(24:18):
do. But I think that's goingto be certainly an interesting events. I
would say it's gonna be one off, but I think it's got a deal
for like a decade or something afterthis, so every single year they're going
to just have to keep like buildingit up and building up and like changing
levels and getting better and bigger andall that kind of stuff. But yeah,
Las Vegas later this season is goingto be wild. It should certainly
be. We're talking with Katie Freman, who writes for essay dot com,
(24:40):
amongst other places right for the FormulaE website and as our own website as
well. We should you you shouldcheck out Katie Fereman dot com. Getting
back into Formula one the actual racing. There's been some drama this past week
at Alpine as their CEO Lauren Rossiekind of came out and the especially used
in America's through the team under thebus You kind of threw mar saff Now
(25:03):
are the team principle under the bus? The drivers a little bit as well,
Peer Ghastly and Esta buon ok onwhat's going on at alp Is anybody
safe over there? It's a goodquestion. I mean, surely they knew
that they were going to have somefireworks there when they hired both Estebanochon,
who was existing in the team,and then Pierre Ghastly, who is new
into Alpin for twenty twenty three.He'd previously been part of the Red Bull
(25:26):
Academy, which is notoriously quite achallenging, difficult place to find a comfortable
seat without. You know, ifyou're not improving when you're with a Red
Bull based team, you're kind ofout so you're cutthroat. Yeah they really
are. They're pretty savage. Buthe's made the change and an all French
team, you know, it mightyou might think it sounds like heaven on
(25:47):
Earth if you're a Frenchman. You'vegot your you know, compatriot alongside with
the team mate for a French team. But really not being the start of
the season that they were hoping for. We obviously had in Australia, the
two Alpines coming together towards the endof that very chaotic race taking each other
out and although after the race,both Ghastly who was the one that had
(26:10):
caused the incident an Okon, whowas the one that was impacted by it,
we're like, oh, you know, it's kind of one of those
things. Surely behind the scenes,you've got to be pretty livid that your
teammate has just taken you out ofpoints scoring position but also himself out.
Like the further you get up thechampionship order and the more points that you
can get as a driver as ateam is going to benefit you in the
(26:30):
following years because the more money youget. So it's a it's a bit
of a strange one. But we'veonly had five races so far this season.
It's still there's still a lot toplay for, but it's going to
be it's going to be very excitingto see how this works out for the
rest of the year. Yeah,going into Miami, they had a good
race in Miami. Both both Alpinedrivers scored points, but they were tied
(26:53):
with McLaren and the McClaren card thisyear seems to be an absolute tractor,
so that wasn't good news for Alpine. Also, interestingly, you you mentioned
the Pure Gasler team in this year. Those two don't get along Pure and
Estebarn, but that seems to havebeen that seems to be right now.
The least of their issues very much. So yeah, there seems to be
like a lot of disagreements, andthere's two not being friends from younger days
(27:18):
from when they were in karting,but maybe, I mean they're both grown
men, so they've maybe put thataside or you know, put it to
one side for the sake of theteam. But yeah, at the moment,
we haven't seen too many fireworks betweenthe two one. They're probably extremely
well media trained and they've had themsold. If you show any signs of
kind of disagreement between the two ofyou, there's going to be big trouble.
(27:41):
But yeah, it's definitely not beenthe Stars the season that album would
have been hoping for, especially asFernando Alonso, who was at the team
last year and made the jump,is doing so well at Aston Martin,
which is a cool that lots ofpeople didn't expect. So yeah, they're
probably punching the air right now becausethey've got not as many points as they
want. And also the guy thatwas left the team and abandoned them and
(28:04):
this project of theirs is now goingoff and doing amazing stuff with another team.
So indeed, yes, and weall kind of thought Fernando was nuts
making another bad career move. Butit turns out he might have known what
was going on. I mentioned McLaren, which is the team I support.
Really a cheer for good races nowbecause my team's always the back of the
back. But so Lando Norris,who you know I would assume as a
(28:27):
fan favorite pretty much everywhere. Helooks like he's trying to keep when I
see him in the interviews, helooks like he's trying to keep it together.
But boy does he look frustrated.Having a slow car with McLaren.
Looked like they've maybe turned the corner. In Australia, they got some good
points and then they went to Miami. They were nowhere is Lando. I
(28:48):
know he has a contract for thenext few years, but Orlando has to
be looking around and seeing maybe wherehe could escape to, right Yeah.
I mean he's been in the teamwith Daniel Ricardo last year, which is
somebody that has always snuck off anddone deals. Maybe when he left Red
bullbos he went to Reno and thenhe sort of broke off from there after
two years and went to McLaren andlike all of this kind of stuff.
(29:11):
So maybe Daniel's been giving him somelittle advice on the side. You don't
know, But I don't know ifthat's good to listen to him as far
as career, but he kept goingto have the order. That's fair,
but it depends does he want agood racing car lots of money, you
know. But yeah, Lando,it's a tricky one for him because he
(29:32):
came into the sport with some ofhis friends, of like Alex Alban who
at the time was with Red Bull. You had George Russell who was at
Williams and not doing great things,but now he's moved up to Mercedes and
both of them have had this realopportunity to be at the front of the
grid getting decent results, whereas Landohad that opportunity. Twenty twenty one was
(29:52):
an amazing season for him. Hegot a whole position that when in Russia
was so close but fell apart atthe last minute. Sorry for bringing that
up for some McLaren fans, butit seems to have just completely taken a
step backwards. And when you've gotso many people in the media as well
as fans like this is a verycommon topic of discussion, is Where's Lando
going to go? Is he goingto stay, is he going to leave
(30:15):
like that's not going to do muchfor a driver, knowing that so many
people are speculating, and it's probablygoing to add to the pressure of thinking,
well if all of these, likeyou know, hundreds of thousands of
F one fans are saying maybe sheshould move, maybe I should go.
So it's kind of going to bean interesting time for Lando to see.
Does he stick with the team thathave had his back since he came into
(30:36):
Formula One. He's obviously very comfortable, they're very at home. Here's a
good relationship with Zac Brown and OscarPastry. They seem to be getting on
while as teammates. Or does hemake the jump and find somewhere else,
because yeah, there's a lot oftalented drivers on that grid and not many
seats that are going to give themthe opportunities that they want. So,
(30:57):
yeah, we'll have to wait andsee. But I'm sure there'll be something
in his contract black of performance clausewhich he might be able to exercise if
needs be. Yeah, kindly,everyone has a contract, but as we've
seen, contracts are made to bebroken. So we'll see what Lando decides
to do. We're talking with Katieferman I neglected to mention your podcast to
(31:17):
the Small Torque podcast, which youcan find on all your favorite podcast apps.
Katie's a journalist covering Formula one andFormula E. So Max and Checo
we all we're all watching the racesat this point. And I made the
analogy a few weeks ago. Ifyou like, college football in America is
a huge thing. I do collegefootball play by play, but in the
(31:38):
highest level of college football, there'stwo or three teams that can win the
championship, and everybody else is fightingamongst themselves. Does that sound a little
bit familiar to Formula one fans?Probably? But Max for Stappin and Sergio
Perez are way ahead of the group. They're fighting with each other. Can
this turn into a twenty sixteen eraNico Rossberg versus Lewis Hamilton thing? Or
is Max just two damn good forCheco to make a bit of ground.
(32:02):
I think there's definitely all the ingredientsthere for it to be like a Lewis
versus Niko championship battle. Like yousay, they seem to be so much
clear of the rest of the fieldthat really their biggest rivals for this championship
is going to be each other.You know, the Ferrari seems to have
dropped back. Last year the Stappenwas fighting against Charlela clerk from Ferrari.
(32:23):
Checo was kind of in there aswell, but it was mainly those the
clerk of the Staffin that were pittedagainst each other, whereas this year it's
very much going to be Perez verthusa Stappen, And although the Staffen seems
to be in a league of hisown. I mean he won from ninth
on the grid in Miami that therace that we just had, so that's
something that's not been done in fortyyears or something like that. So you
(32:45):
know, the guy's got a lotof talent, there's no denying that,
and a very fast car to sortof back him up. But at the
same time, Serjo Perez is adriver with a lot of experience in Formula
One. He's driven cars that aremaybe well definitely not as good as the
Red Bull. You know, he'sdone as time driving cars that he really
needs to overdrive to get the bestperformance out of them. And it turns
(33:07):
out that he seems to be somesort of master of street circuits new but
he seems to really enjoy racing onthose and as Formula One adds races to
the calendar, they all seem tobe street circuits. So although when we
come to the European Hall of theChampionship there's going to be a lot more
of the traditional permanent facilities, We'vegot places like the Red Bull Ring that
(33:30):
are coming up, We've got Silverstone, Monza. All of these are permanent
facilities, but we do have alot of street circuits sprinkled in there.
And if this does seem to bemore than just a coincidence, then that
could be a real place for Sergioto make up positions. And we've seen
reliability, although it's not as muchas in previously. As you know,
(33:51):
no car and that grid is completelybulletproof. It's going to be a chance
to see that as the season progressesand engine parts get used and abuse that
maybe we're going to see a coupleof mechanical related retirements, maybe some driver
mistakes. So there is still alot to play for and I wouldn't rule
outside Joe Perez just yet, justbecause he's going up against the reigning champion.
(34:12):
Yeah, he does need a littlebit of luckier they he needs a
couple of retirements or Max to justget bored it or get punted off the
track by somebody and perhaps then,you know, maybe it'll fall into his
hit. You know, not tosay he wouldn't deserve, because I think
he's an excellent driver, but heis going to need a little bit of
the rubb of the green if hewants to beat Max. So who just
looks indestructible. Yeah, totally.But Formula one is crazy. You know
(34:34):
the amount of people I've seen that, you know, Max has got into
the lead of the race on lapten or something like that, if he
wasn't there already, and they've gone, oh, this is rubbish, I'm
going to turn off. But actuallyFormula one isn't like that. You have
to keep watching until the check hisway to know what the result is,
and even then they could be postrace investigations and things like that, Oh
my goodness. Yes, you're notover until it's over. And I think
(34:57):
that's one of the things that Ithat's why I love Middle one is because
yes, you've got man and machine, and often you know, man is
like so hardcore they're going to keeppushing there like a different breed of human.
But sometimes the machine can fail onyou. So it's really like it's
not over till it's over. AndI think that's such an exciting element of
(35:19):
motor sport. That is one ofthe reasons why I love writing about it
and keep coming back. Indeed,all right, before we'll let you go,
Katie, I do have to askabout this. The hottest rumor this
week was that Nick Davrees, whohad such a green shown for Williams last
year, was hired by Alpha Towery, could be in trouble and that everybody,
everybody in America anyway, everybody's favoritedriver, Daniel Ricardo, who's the
(35:40):
Red Bull third driver right now,could be waiting in the wings to take
a seat if Nick Davrees can't getit together. We've seen reports to say
that might be the case, thatHelmet Marco might be telling Nick Davrees shape
up or you're out. We've allseen reports to say, no, no,
no, that's that's probably BS.What do you think. I think
a lot of people Paul have beenquick to jump on Nick Davris and be
(36:01):
quite critical of his performance, LikeI know that he had this amazing Monza
outing last year where he jumped intoa Williams such short notice, got points
outscored his more experienced teammate at WilliamsLatifee. But I think people need to
remember that, Yeah, Nick isstill just getting to grip to the Formula
(36:22):
one. The teammate that he's gotAt the moment, Yuki Snoda seems to
have really, you know, finallygot his act together. He's had a
couple of years in Formula one.Needn't remind people like the first few races
that Yuki did, he like almostdemolished the car. In the second,
they're qualifying an impla and people seemto be quite forgetful of that. So,
(36:43):
you know, I think people needto be a bit kinder to Nick
Debris. I'm not trying to compareNick Debris to somebody like Charlotte Clerk,
but you know, the Clerk wasrivaling for a championship last season, yet
in Miami made two massive mistakes,whereas Nick Debris had a little, let's
say, a whoops see it atthe start, which you know got knocked
off as a racing incident. Butyou know, people are acting like he's
(37:06):
crashing the car every session. He'smade a few mistakes here and there,
same mistakes that we've seen drivers made. He managed to DNF in Azerbaijan the
race before Miami, after whacking hisfront left on a corner of breaking the
suspension, which is a move thatLance Stroll, another experienced driver, made
the same error only a few lapslater, but managed to get away with
(37:28):
it. So I think people needto maybe have a little think about the
fact that he's still getting to gripswith the car. But yeah, in
terms of Daniel Ricardo coming back,I mean I might be slightly biased,
but I think most fans would absolutelylove that. He's such a big personality
and Red Bull have been like fuelingthe fire, saying that when Ricardo was
at McLaren he sort of left there. He was a shell of his former
(37:51):
self, you know, he christianhorned the team principle, sort of set
to Zach Brown, what did youdo to him? Like, we almost
didn't recognize him when we got himback. So I think I'm sure that
now Red Bull have been there,they've been, you know, fueling the
fire, getting the honey Badger asDaniel Riccardo is nicknamed hungry ready for a
seat. But we'll have to waitand see. I think that they'll still
(38:15):
be I think Red Bull won't makea decision until at least midway through the
season. That's a trait that we'veseen them do a couple of times before.
But for Nictivirise, I think hejust needs to get his head down,
don't listen to all of these rumors, these chatters, and yeah,
just keep working on getting to gripswith the car, getting this set up
how he likes it, and hopefullywe'll get back that nictive rise that we
(38:37):
saw him on so last year,where he's putting out some amazing performances and
it's amazing how quick narratives can changein Formula one. Indeed, Well,
Katy, this has been a joy. There's a hundred other things we can
ask you about, but we're runningout of time, so thank you so
much. Find Katy at Katie Fremandot com, SI dot com. Listen
(38:58):
to her Small Torque podcast. She'son Twitter's I just found you on Instagram
like a minute before we got onthe zoom. But anything else you want
to plug for the listeners before wesay goodbye, No, I think that's
pretty much everything. Thank you somuch. That's Katy Fairman. This is
overtime We'll be back with more nextkeep it here. Welcome back to overtime.
(39:21):
We are running out of program fortoday. My thanks to my guest
today, Andrew Perez of the Lever. Levernews dot com is where you find
his stuff. Some great reporting.Had a good story on Clarence Thomas,
had that story on greedflation. Allsorts of stuff you can find at levernews
dot com. You can find themon Twitter as well. And Katie Fairman
Formula one she used to be withWTF one now is on her own freelancing
(39:45):
r. It's for si dot comr. It's for the Formula E website.
Has her own podcast. It's calledthe Small Torque Podcast. You can
download that. It's just her talkingabout Formula one formulae and it's pretty entertaining.
Katie. Katie's awesome, so gosupport her stuff as well. Hope
you have a great weekend. Isthe first week it's probably hasn't been raining
(40:05):
in New Hampshire and it's been awesome. It's amazing how much said that sunshine
and vitamin D kind of half pullsyou out of seasonal depression. Regular depression.
Still there, the crushing weight ofbeing an adult in the twenty first
century. Still there, but atleast it's been sunny out right. All
right, that's gonna wrap it up. We will talk to you guys next
week. Until then, remember hippiesare bad people partending to be good.
(40:29):
Pumps are good people pretending to bebad. See you later.
The time. I you're devastatingly handsomeand always humble hosts justin the kids of
the People's champ But quite a weekhere in the granted States and early around
the country, has it not.We started with a couple of different mass
casual events in Texas and ended withDonald Trump doing a town hall in New
(00:32):
Hampshire, where CNN decided it wasa good idea to give Donald Trump a
microphone and put a camera from himand said, hey, here you go,
say whatever you feel like. We'llgive you a little bit of pushback,
but other than that, we're gonnaput one of your rallies on TV.
And then very quickly I think theyfigured out that maybe that wasn't a
great idea because they cut the rallysharp. But nonetheless, coming up on
(00:54):
the show today, I talked toKatie Ferrerman, who is a Formula one
reporter and a Formula E reporter.You might know what Formula one is,
but some of you out there mightbe saying, what the hell is Formula
E? Well, good news foryou, because we talk about that and
kind of tell you about what FormulaE is. It's actually pretty fun.
Katie is a very fun interview.We talked to Katie about all Swarts formula
(01:14):
one topic, so that will becoming up. Also Andrew Perez of levernews
dot com which I think I calledthe lever dot com like six times in
the interview, So my bad,Andrew. But Andrew has an article with
a couple of other co authors abouthow actually inflation was kind of the fault
or at least at this point,of corporations jacking up prices, and this
(01:36):
got poop pooed a lot about Idon't know, like anywhere from a year
to more ago. And if youbring this up, folks e commists would
say, oh, no, no, why would corporations be greedy? Greed
is priced into inflation. No,no, that's not the case. But
then if you're like me, youlook at your electric bill, your electric
bill would have doubled. Trying tobuy a car, the price would have
(01:57):
gone up like seven thousand dollars threeyears for a Toyota Corolla or whatnot.
And he'd say, is the CEOof ever source is his paycheck taking a
haircut? No, oh, okay, they're still making the same profit margin.
It's just you and me on theback end. Are the ones paying
for it, gotcha. So maybeinflation wasn't so inflating and maybe a little
(02:17):
more greedy. But Andrew gets intothat. We talk about that all that
is coming up here on the shore, All that is coming up here on
today's show. As always, ifyou missed any portion of the live broadcast,
download the podcast anywhere you get podcastThe bosses like me to say downloaded
on the iHeartRadio app, but youcan get it pretty much anywhere you get
(02:38):
podcasts. So I'll leave a reviewfive stars, all that sort of crap
that I guess that helps me out. I don't know. I don't see
any more money for it, butit helps more people find the show.
And then maybe that one get yourboy some more money, because we gotta
pay for car repairs for the boyscar, we gotta pay for college tuition.
We got a whole lot of stuffthat's going on because capitalism. But
anyway, coming up, we willtalk to Andrew Prenn of levernews dot com.
(03:01):
That is next. This is overtime. Keep it here during a sound
overtime is Andrew Perez of the Lever'sGot the Story titled with two other of
authors, Matthew Cunningham, Cook andDavid Serata suttle how Pundan's inflation myth crushed
(03:23):
the working class. Andrew thinks forbeing on the show, of course,
thanks for having me. Uh yeah, nope, no, no, my
pleasure. So inflation, of coursehas been a you know, to anybody
that has to spend money and anything. It's been a big deal since really
since since COVID kicked in really hyperinflation. But what what I had found,
and I guess what you're reporting kindof bears out, is it seems to
(03:46):
be so much that people were makingextra money. It seemed like a corporation's
kind of took advantage of what was, you know, genuine inflation to to
jacko prices on things. And nowthat inflation is starting to ease a bit,
they are not they're not pulling backon rains. Is that what you
guys founded this article? Yeah,totally. Um, you know, it's
really been the story of the pandemiceconomy, especially sort of since the economy
(04:11):
um, you know, reopened.Um has been that corporations have been booking
record profits and that they are contributingvery substantially to the price hikes that people
are experiencing when they when they goto the store, um, or you
know, even when like businesses orare buying uh, you know, buying
their own sort of goods and servicesand passing them on to consumers. Yeah.
(04:31):
So it's it's become a it's becomea real giant issue, and it's
one that um, you know,what we focused in this piece on is
that the you know, sort ofWashington pundit class, the wanks and economists
in Washington all sort of um,you know, had blamed really any other
factor other than corporate profiteering, despiteum, you know, some really compelling
(04:55):
evidence that that corporate profits are arereally significantly driving inflation. Yeah, it
sure seemed like, you know,everybody was asked to take to take a
hit during the pandemic and then butbut you know, your your giant corporations,
your Amazons, your your Netflix isuh all those folks really came out
looking pretty good at the end ofit. And the discourse you know,
(05:18):
on on on major and major newspapers, major radio stations, including you know
stations including this station that you hearthis show on, has been no,
people are making too much money andthat's why inflation is the thing. We
got to take money out of theeconomy. You saw interest rates being raised.
Uh, it seems like even majormedia outlets are kind of coming around
on, well, maybe we screwedthat one up. Yeah, yeah,
(05:41):
I mean just just recently the WallStreet Journal, you know, reported how
that that inflation has been um,you know, more stubborn than than was
originally expected, and um, youknow, economists are are coming around to
the conclusion that it's because businesses areusing this rare opportunity to boost their profit
margins um. And that's you know, that's sort of what a lot of
(06:01):
the research here is saying. It'syou know, it's not that there aren't
other factors inflation in inflation. Obviously, there's been you know, a supply
chain crunch, there's you know,there are labor shortages. I do think
that's real. Um, But youknow, businesses are using all of those
as this sort of um story thatthey can tell um as to why they
(06:23):
need to raise their prices. Andwhen you know, when everyone is raising
their prices, you know, umas you know, sort of aggressively,
it definitely becomes a lot easier tosell that that idea, right that like,
oh, every business really needs todo this right now. It's just
the pandemic, it's just the supplychain. It's you know, uh,
(06:43):
pick your reason. But that's andthat's actually what um. You know,
this this chief economist at UBS hassaid is that there's that businesses are finding
they actually have this like story thatthey can spin here. Um, that
they that they have sort of theability to raise prices, um sort of
indefinitely just increasingly so um, solong as they have a story to spin.
(07:10):
Yeah, it's kind of like thefrog in the pot of water,
right, you know, prices getraised a little bit that we kind of
get used to it, the shockwears off. You just keep paying that
price. But it seems as though, uh, you know, corporations might
have got a little bit over theirskis. Uh when it when it comes
to when it comes to this,because when you look at the you know,
if you're a publicly traded corporation,eventually you have to you know,
(07:30):
publish some some quarterly earnings. Andwhen they when they when the profits are
through the roof, I think,you know, Joe Sixpack looks around says,
wait a minute, what the hell'sgoing on here? I you know,
if we're all feeling the crunch.Why why aren't you feeling the crunch
along with me? Yeah? Yeah, I mean it's funny. Despite the
really sort of extensive narrative that wethat we saw from the corporate media class
(07:53):
and and you know, pundits andWalks and Washington all that kind of stuff.
Um, I do think that youknow, the actual public really kind
of has understood that that they've beengetting overcharged, right Like I like poles
do. Poles do bear that outthat people, you know, place more
blame on you know, corporate profiteeringthan any kind of administration decision. We're
(08:16):
talking with. Andrew Perez of thelever dot com has a story on how
Punan's inflation myth crushed the working class. There was a term, uh that
was kind of coined by this calleda greenflation, which is as far as
marketing goes, it seems to bea good term that can stick, greenflation.
But you had to You had peoplelike Madig Glacias pushing back on this.
(08:39):
You had all sorts of folks,Uh, what do you think was
I mean, I think I canguess what the motivation was, but what
what do you think the motivation wasbehind sort of the you know, big
corporate media spinning this into you know, you know, kind of pushing back
on the green flation uh theory.Yeah, I mean, you know,
I think I definitely think there's somesome like you know, self service happening
(09:01):
here. You know, some ofthese pundits work at um, you know,
the Washington Post that's owned by ownedby Amazon founder Jeff Bezos. Um.
I do think that some people don'treally have like the framework for this
though, right, Like they're like, oh, well, my like econ
one on one textbook taught me,taught me this, and it's like,
okay, that's great, but likeyou know that at the end of the
(09:24):
day, like there are like studiesshowing corporate profits or disproportionately affecting or disproportionately
driving price hikes, like you know, and it's funny some of this I
feel like, um, you know, they're like one of the arguments here
is like, oh, like greedflation, Well, there hasn't been an increase
in greed, and it's like,I'm sorry, that's not that's not actually
(09:46):
what people are talking about. We'renot talking about an inflation of greed so
much as inflation being driven by greed. It's it's really it's really like a
pedantic argument and um, and I'mnot sure. I'm not sure they really
actually understand the real argument here rightby the way, is there a metric
to to measure greed? And dowe know if it's I feel like it
(10:09):
might have gone up? Actually ifif if we're actually measuring that right,
Yeah, I mean, okay,you could make the argument. You can
make the argument for sure, butyeah, I mean, you know,
I think what they're saying is thatlike, oh, there's greed baked into
the process, like all corporate orall companies want to make money, and
it's like that's right here, theyhad, you know, an extraordinary opportunity
(10:31):
to make more money exactly. We'retalking to Andrew Prez of the lever dot
com talking about how corporations kind ofhave taken a big bite out of the
working class now that folks are comingaround like even you know, the Wall
Street Journal, which if if youthink about publications that are kind of dedicated
to smashing the working glass at theexpense of the ruling glass, the Wall
(10:52):
Street Journals kind of the first oneto think of, But even the Wall
Street Journals coming around on the factthat maybe corporations have taken too big of
a bite of the pie here.Uh do we see do we think any
of this is going to start toturn around or is it just a matter
of of the ruling class kind ofweathering the storm here and waiting for people
to get bored to move on totheir the next distraction. Yeah, I
(11:15):
mean I think is there's not muchpressure on them to handle stuff differently.
Um. You know, what we'veseen is that the Federal Reserve has been
like hiking interest rates. It doesIt does seem like and if they've done
so repeatedly, like there is somesense that they're going to slow that down
and stop it soon. Um,so that it might you know, kind
of at least stop the bleeding.Um. But Yeah, it does not
(11:37):
seem like there's you know, muchpressure in Washington. It sort of seems
like, you know, the governmentis actually kind of moving back towards austerity
politics, right like looking to inflictmore pain on on on workers, you
know, like that's that's like goingto be the end result right now of
of you know, these negotiations overthe debt ceiling for instance, Like like
(12:00):
Republicans are pushing to extract cuts tosocial programs. Um, you know,
we're like impose work requirements and medicaidthat kind of thing. Um, create
this really kind of draft expending cuttoo. There's there there's a good story
in the New York Times about thatthis morning. Um. So you know,
I don't think there's much pressure onon Washington policymakers to to like actually
(12:24):
go back assess like did we handlethis right? It sort of seems like
they're moving full steam ahead with withwith you know, another round of austerity
politics. Yeah, which is whileconsidering when we were three years ago in
the height of the pandemic, therewas a moment there where you know,
people were getting you know, uh, you know, the the unemployment supplement.
(12:45):
Um, you know, people alot of people are being lifted out
of poverty, and it seemed likefor for a minute there, and it
was just about a minute that thingswere going to turn around and and government
was going to actually work towards helpingpeople. But it seems to be like
the rubber band effect to that thereare am I wrong about that? No?
I think that's totally right. Um, you know, you're right,
(13:07):
like we did see the government wasyou know, sort of shooting off the
money canon for a while, andand for once it was actually sort of
actually helping um you know, aimedat in helping the working class, and
um, you know, there wasthere was just such a such a negative
reaction to that in Washington from likeyou know, businesses and stuff. You
know, they blamed all that forthis labor shortage. And you know even
(13:30):
now, like there's still a laborshortage. You know, you you remove
you with COVID, you remove alot of people from the workforce, right
like in both both in terms ofa lot of people lost their lives,
a lot of people can't work inpublic now, a lot of and a
lot more people have you know,increasing care responsibilities. So like it's not
a surprise that the labor market didn'tjust fully rebound, right Like we're that
(13:52):
We're sorry. I mean it actuallyhas rebounded, but there's there's still are
shortages that where businesses can't find enoughworkers. And so yeah, anyway,
it created this this um you know, big drive to end pandemic aid UM
and and you know it's it isreally sad, like you know, you
look at um, you know,the medicaid, for instance, had become
(14:15):
a much more generous program um duringthe pandemic, right, and it's you
know, you're talking about probably likelike probably the most comprehensive healthcare program that
we have. It Like it's youknow, like because with Medicare you can
still get hit with all kinds ofcosts, like Medicaid is is not like
(14:35):
that. It is it is afar far superior program for for workers.
UM. So anyway, Yeah,now you're looking at states or getting ready
to and probably already started, youknow, throwing off millions of people off
of Medicaid, and they're going tobe doing it, um strictly due to
administrative reasons, like you miss apiece of mail, you fail to answer
(14:56):
a call, like suddenly you youare you know, you could start losing
your coverage. Um. And that'sthat's the old status quo, and we've
gone back to it. It's it'sreally it's really a sad situation. Yeah,
And it seems like nobody learned anythingfrom from from O eight when all
the wrong people got helped out whenthere was a crisis. You know,
we started off in the pandemic helpingout the right people. People in power
(15:20):
really got got panicked by that.I do think that that that if there's
one thing that's gonna get maybe getpeople on the streets, it's gonna be
uh a Medicaid expansion being rolled back. There's places like New Hampshire, for
example, where the folks are talkingabout making Medicaid expansion permit because it's been
so incredibly wildly popular in Folks likeme that are kind of far on the
(15:41):
left say yeah, you think ifyou if you if if I'm gonna break
my leg and I don't have togo bankrupt over it, maybe that's a
good thing. I don't know,but I think that's gonna lead to pressure
being put up politicians when these thingsstart to get rolled back. Yeah,
I mean I think it's I thinkit totally. You know, have to
see, but you know, youlook at like I mean, I think
(16:03):
you can really trace the history ofJoe Biden's presidency, like just just in
poll numbers versus you know, whatwas happening when when they were actually giving
out money to people, when theywhen they when they were helping people get
on you know, a comprehensive freehealthcare program right right, like you start
(16:23):
trimming the aids, you start trimmingassistants, and his poll numbers are the
worst of any president who is youknow, getting ready to run for reelection
and you know modern history, likehe is polling worse than Donald Trump like
was and before he ran for reelectionand it's um you know, and now
yet again like the talk in Washingtonis is is let's get a buypartisan deal
(16:47):
for spending cuts and like that thatnone of that is going to help make
Joe Biden more popular, like theit is, it is actually designed to
have the complete opposite effect. Yeah, I I never it never fails to
amazebee how many times you can say, uh, well, if we do
good things for people, people likethat, but instead, why don't we
(17:07):
do the opposite? And I justit just blows by mind. By Andrew,
where we're kind of up against theclock here, Uh, Andrew Prez
of the lever dot com? Wherecan people find you? What else are
you working on? I'll the tellthe people where to get more of more
of you? Sure, well,so you can read the Lever. We're
at levernews dot com and my ownTwitter handle is at Andrew Perez DC.
(17:32):
All right, anything we should lookfor coming down the pike on the on
the lever from you? Uh?No, I mean, we're gonna be
talking more about disinflation stuff. Certainlywe're gonna be talking about the debt ceiling.
We're doing a live call in thisafternoon. It's it's Friday. We'll
be doing a live call in onthat um and yeah, so and that
will be available for anyone who wantsto listen to it after the fact.
(17:56):
Cool Andrew, thanks for being onthe show and I hope we can do
this against sometime. Thanks according mehere on overtime from SI dot com and
also writing for Formulae and a hundredother different places. Is the one and
only Katie Fairman. Katie, howare you today? I'm great? Thank
you so much for having me,No, thanks for doing for doing the
show. And you're a bit ofa world traveler at this point. Where
(18:18):
are you joining us from today?And I know you're in England, but
are you in London or which partof England are you in? Um?
I lived down in Brighton, soon the south coast. I've got the
lovely scene nearby. So that's whereI am today. That's where i'm based.
Excellent. Yeah, and I'm inNew Hampshire, you know, in
the New England area. The youcan't really go in the ocean because it's
too damn cold all the time.I imagine it's like that where you are
as well, very much. Soyeah, I haven't adventure off into the
(18:41):
sea like at the moment, sono, no, no, I don't
want to do that ever in NewHampshire either. So so Katie Katie is
an expert not only on Formula Onebut on Formulae as well, which a
lot I think a lot of Americanfans that are gotten into Formula one with
the driver Survive craze maybe kind ofslightly where Formulae. But for those that
(19:03):
aren't familiar with it, can youkind of give a like a quick overview
of what Formulae is and I actuallydig the race something. They're pretty cool,
But can you tell folks what that'sall about? Of course? Yeah,
So Formula E is an all electricracing series. So where Formula One
have engines, power units that kindof stuff, Formulae have power trains and
the racing takes place almost exclusively onstreet circuits. So if that's something that
(19:26):
you're into, then this is theseries for you. The racing is insanely
action packs. We just came awayfrom Monaco, and obviously that's a circuit
that lots of people might assume youcan't overtake him because the streets are narrow.
It's very tight and twisty. Formulacompletely different. I think there are
one hundred and sixteen overtakes in thespace of the race and they're normally about
like half the length of a FormulaOne race, so so much action to
(19:48):
get through. And you've got somany big manufacturers there. You've got the
likes of McLaren, Maserati made Motorsportcome back there. There's all sorts of
people up and down that grid thata really awesome talents as well. Driver
wise. There's some really big namesthere. So it's a really exciting championship.
It's in season nine now. They'vejust entered what's called Gen three,
(20:11):
which is like the third generation ofthe championships. That the cars are lighter,
they're faster, they're more efficient,and it's just a really awesome championship
and like I said, produces somegreat racing. Yeah, the races are
kind of banners too, right,which is the thing that's the coolest about
that's it took me a little bitto use to the sound of the cars
because that's kind of off putting atfirst, but once you get used to
that, the races are wheel towheel, like you said in Monaco that
(20:32):
you know overtakes left right. It'sit's pretty cool. And you write for
Formula E I do. Yeah,So I started writing about Formulaly through my
own website, and then as timehas gone on, formerly obviously saw me,
enjoyed what I was writing about,and now they fought me on freelance
for this season. So yeah,I'll be going to a couple of races.
My next one's actually in Portland inthe US, so I'm very excited
about that. Yeah, so Iwent to They had a race in New
(20:56):
York a few years ago that Iattended, but I'm excited to get back
on US soil and cover that race, so it should be awesome. I'm
assuming this is Portland, Oregon,not Portland, Maine. Portland, Maine's
down the about an hour of theroad from where we are, but Portland,
Oregon, I'm guessing right, Yeah, two different Portland's. There's a
story about how Portland, Oregon pickedtheir name. They flipped a coin too,
(21:18):
and it came up Portland instead ofBoston. That's that's another story for
another day. But so looking atFormula One. Of course, in the
US, Formula one is exploring inpopularity, thanks mostly to the Drive Just
Furvive series. I'll admit that that'sthat I was aware of Formula One.
I knew who you know so LewisHamilton was and Schumacher. Of course in
Airton the Center, I used tokind of have it on the background sometimes
(21:41):
didn't really pay attention to it,didn't have favorites. Once my wife and
I watched Drive to Survive, wewere all in. Even my daughter,
who doesn't like any sport, shegot in. She loves Orlando Norris hates
George Russell for whatever reason. You'dhave to talk to her about that.
But but now you have three USraces and one of the things I like
about Formula one is how not America. And it was, for lack of
a better term, but it's especiallywith this latest Miami Grand Prix, it
(22:04):
seems as though one of the oneskind of embracing some American cheesiness. I
think it would say, how arefolks you know in England and Europe?
In kind of old school f onefans reacting to the americanization of some of
F one's presentations. I think you'realways going to have, like you say,
traditionalists that are like, oh,back in my day wasn't like this
(22:26):
and that kind of thing. ButI'm quite enjoying the little different things that
we're seeing in different race tracks atthe moment. It's kind of unfortunate that
a lot of this maybe cheesiness,as you sort of said, is coming
from the US races. We've hadit before, where I think it was
in Texas, the race circuit ofthe Americas that we had there a few
years ago. They had a similarthing where all the drivers get introduced one
(22:48):
by one by I forget his name, but he's quite like a famous boxer
announcer and that Yeah, yes,that's the one rumble that guy. Yeah,
yeah, totally, And so we'veseen parts of it before. But
yeah, it's certainly certainly been aninteresting change. I don't mind it too
much as long as it's kind ofbalanced and we get at like more access
(23:11):
to other countries and sort of thoseexperiences in different places. So it's not
just all like pointed on the USraces for example, But it's certainly been
an interesting change. But yeah,I don't know. I think at the
moment it's quite harmless and it's justa bit of fun and it's generating a
lot of engagement on social media,lots of people talking about it. I
know that Will i Am has justreleased a new song called The Formula,
(23:33):
which, let's just say, ithasn't been received it very well. It's
lots of people saying it reminds themof an S and L skit, which
you know, take on that asyou will, but it does get stuck
in your head a bit, doesn'tit. Oh, it's been in my
head all week. It's maybe agood thing, maybe not, but yeah,
it's it's been. It's been.I'm liking it so far that I'll
(23:56):
say that much. Okay, yeah, maybe just the right amount right now,
But you know, want to youdon't want to get crazy with it.
So that's that's. It's a littlejust way till Las Vegas. If
I think Miami was something, Ican only imagine what they're going to do
in Vegas. It's going to beit's gonna be something else. I'll say
that, it really is. They'regoing to people behind F one and probably
racking their brains right now as toall of the crazy things that they can
(24:18):
do. But I think that's goingto be certainly an interesting events. I
would say it's gonna be one off, but I think it's got a deal
for like a decade or something afterthis, so every single year they're going
to just have to keep like buildingit up and building up and like changing
levels and getting better and bigger andall that kind of stuff. But yeah,
Las Vegas later this season is goingto be wild. It should certainly
be. We're talking with Katie Freman, who writes for essay dot com,
(24:40):
amongst other places right for the FormulaE website and as our own website as
well. We should you you shouldcheck out Katie Fereman dot com. Getting
back into Formula one the actual racing. There's been some drama this past week
at Alpine as their CEO Lauren Rossiekind of came out and the especially used
in America's through the team under thebus You kind of threw mar saff Now
(25:03):
are the team principle under the bus? The drivers a little bit as well,
Peer Ghastly and Esta buon ok onwhat's going on at alp Is anybody
safe over there? It's a goodquestion. I mean, surely they knew
that they were going to have somefireworks there when they hired both Estebanochon,
who was existing in the team,and then Pierre Ghastly, who is new
into Alpin for twenty twenty three.He'd previously been part of the Red Bull
(25:26):
Academy, which is notoriously quite achallenging, difficult place to find a comfortable
seat without. You know, ifyou're not improving when you're with a Red
Bull based team, you're kind ofout so you're cutthroat. Yeah they really
are. They're pretty savage. Buthe's made the change and an all French
team, you know, it mightyou might think it sounds like heaven on
(25:47):
Earth if you're a Frenchman. You'vegot your you know, compatriot alongside with
the team mate for a French team. But really not being the start of
the season that they were hoping for. We obviously had in Australia, the
two Alpines coming together towards the endof that very chaotic race taking each other
out and although after the race,both Ghastly who was the one that had
(26:10):
caused the incident an Okon, whowas the one that was impacted by it,
we're like, oh, you know, it's kind of one of those
things. Surely behind the scenes,you've got to be pretty livid that your
teammate has just taken you out ofpoints scoring position but also himself out.
Like the further you get up thechampionship order and the more points that you
can get as a driver as ateam is going to benefit you in the
(26:30):
following years because the more money youget. So it's a it's a bit
of a strange one. But we'veonly had five races so far this season.
It's still there's still a lot toplay for, but it's going to
be it's going to be very excitingto see how this works out for the
rest of the year. Yeah,going into Miami, they had a good
race in Miami. Both both Alpinedrivers scored points, but they were tied
(26:53):
with McLaren and the McClaren card thisyear seems to be an absolute tractor,
so that wasn't good news for Alpine. Also, interestingly, you you mentioned
the Pure Gasler team in this year. Those two don't get along Pure and
Estebarn, but that seems to havebeen that seems to be right now.
The least of their issues very much. So yeah, there seems to be
like a lot of disagreements, andthere's two not being friends from younger days
(27:18):
from when they were in karting,but maybe, I mean they're both grown
men, so they've maybe put thataside or you know, put it to
one side for the sake of theteam. But yeah, at the moment,
we haven't seen too many fireworks betweenthe two one. They're probably extremely
well media trained and they've had themsold. If you show any signs of
kind of disagreement between the two ofyou, there's going to be big trouble.
(27:41):
But yeah, it's definitely not beenthe Stars the season that album would
have been hoping for, especially asFernando Alonso, who was at the team
last year and made the jump,is doing so well at Aston Martin,
which is a cool that lots ofpeople didn't expect. So yeah, they're
probably punching the air right now becausethey've got not as many points as they
want. And also the guy thatwas left the team and abandoned them and
(28:04):
this project of theirs is now goingoff and doing amazing stuff with another team.
So indeed, yes, and weall kind of thought Fernando was nuts
making another bad career move. Butit turns out he might have known what
was going on. I mentioned McLaren, which is the team I support.
Really a cheer for good races nowbecause my team's always the back of the
back. But so Lando Norris,who you know I would assume as a
(28:27):
fan favorite pretty much everywhere. Helooks like he's trying to keep when I
see him in the interviews, helooks like he's trying to keep it together.
But boy does he look frustrated.Having a slow car with McLaren.
Looked like they've maybe turned the corner. In Australia, they got some good
points and then they went to Miami. They were nowhere is Lando. I
(28:48):
know he has a contract for thenext few years, but Orlando has to
be looking around and seeing maybe wherehe could escape to, right Yeah.
I mean he's been in the teamwith Daniel Ricardo last year, which is
somebody that has always snuck off anddone deals. Maybe when he left Red
bullbos he went to Reno and thenhe sort of broke off from there after
two years and went to McLaren andlike all of this kind of stuff.
(29:11):
So maybe Daniel's been giving him somelittle advice on the side. You don't
know, But I don't know ifthat's good to listen to him as far
as career, but he kept goingto have the order. That's fair,
but it depends does he want agood racing car lots of money, you
know. But yeah, Lando,it's a tricky one for him because he
(29:32):
came into the sport with some ofhis friends, of like Alex Alban who
at the time was with Red Bull. You had George Russell who was at
Williams and not doing great things,but now he's moved up to Mercedes and
both of them have had this realopportunity to be at the front of the
grid getting decent results, whereas Landohad that opportunity. Twenty twenty one was
(29:52):
an amazing season for him. Hegot a whole position that when in Russia
was so close but fell apart atthe last minute. Sorry for bringing that
up for some McLaren fans, butit seems to have just completely taken a
step backwards. And when you've gotso many people in the media as well
as fans like this is a verycommon topic of discussion, is Where's Lando
going to go? Is he goingto stay, is he going to leave
(30:15):
like that's not going to do muchfor a driver, knowing that so many
people are speculating, and it's probablygoing to add to the pressure of thinking,
well if all of these, likeyou know, hundreds of thousands of
F one fans are saying maybe sheshould move, maybe I should go.
So it's kind of going to bean interesting time for Lando to see.
Does he stick with the team thathave had his back since he came into
(30:36):
Formula One. He's obviously very comfortable, they're very at home. Here's a
good relationship with Zac Brown and OscarPastry. They seem to be getting on
while as teammates. Or does hemake the jump and find somewhere else,
because yeah, there's a lot oftalented drivers on that grid and not many
seats that are going to give themthe opportunities that they want. So,
(30:57):
yeah, we'll have to wait andsee. But I'm sure there'll be something
in his contract black of performance clausewhich he might be able to exercise if
needs be. Yeah, kindly,everyone has a contract, but as we've
seen, contracts are made to bebroken. So we'll see what Lando decides
to do. We're talking with Katieferman I neglected to mention your podcast to
(31:17):
the Small Torque podcast, which youcan find on all your favorite podcast apps.
Katie's a journalist covering Formula one andFormula E. So Max and Checo
we all we're all watching the racesat this point. And I made the
analogy a few weeks ago. Ifyou like, college football in America is
a huge thing. I do collegefootball play by play, but in the
(31:38):
highest level of college football, there'stwo or three teams that can win the
championship, and everybody else is fightingamongst themselves. Does that sound a little
bit familiar to Formula one fans?Probably? But Max for Stappin and Sergio
Perez are way ahead of the group. They're fighting with each other. Can
this turn into a twenty sixteen eraNico Rossberg versus Lewis Hamilton thing? Or
is Max just two damn good forCheco to make a bit of ground.
(32:02):
I think there's definitely all the ingredientsthere for it to be like a Lewis
versus Niko championship battle. Like yousay, they seem to be so much
clear of the rest of the fieldthat really their biggest rivals for this championship
is going to be each other.You know, the Ferrari seems to have
dropped back. Last year the Stappenwas fighting against Charlela clerk from Ferrari.
(32:23):
Checo was kind of in there aswell, but it was mainly those the
clerk of the Staffin that were pittedagainst each other, whereas this year it's
very much going to be Perez verthusa Stappen, And although the Staffen seems
to be in a league of hisown. I mean he won from ninth
on the grid in Miami that therace that we just had, so that's
something that's not been done in fortyyears or something like that. So you
(32:45):
know, the guy's got a lotof talent, there's no denying that,
and a very fast car to sortof back him up. But at the
same time, Serjo Perez is adriver with a lot of experience in Formula
One. He's driven cars that aremaybe well definitely not as good as the
Red Bull. You know, he'sdone as time driving cars that he really
needs to overdrive to get the bestperformance out of them. And it turns
(33:07):
out that he seems to be somesort of master of street circuits new but
he seems to really enjoy racing onthose and as Formula One adds races to
the calendar, they all seem tobe street circuits. So although when we
come to the European Hall of theChampionship there's going to be a lot more
of the traditional permanent facilities, We'vegot places like the Red Bull Ring that
(33:30):
are coming up, We've got Silverstone, Monza. All of these are permanent
facilities, but we do have alot of street circuits sprinkled in there.
And if this does seem to bemore than just a coincidence, then that
could be a real place for Sergioto make up positions. And we've seen
reliability, although it's not as muchas in previously. As you know,
(33:51):
no car and that grid is completelybulletproof. It's going to be a chance
to see that as the season progressesand engine parts get used and abuse that
maybe we're going to see a coupleof mechanical related retirements, maybe some driver
mistakes. So there is still alot to play for and I wouldn't rule
outside Joe Perez just yet, justbecause he's going up against the reigning champion.
(34:12):
Yeah, he does need a littlebit of luckier they he needs a
couple of retirements or Max to justget bored it or get punted off the
track by somebody and perhaps then,you know, maybe it'll fall into his
hit. You know, not tosay he wouldn't deserve, because I think
he's an excellent driver, but heis going to need a little bit of
the rubb of the green if hewants to beat Max. So who just
looks indestructible. Yeah, totally.But Formula one is crazy. You know
(34:34):
the amount of people I've seen that, you know, Max has got into
the lead of the race on lapten or something like that, if he
wasn't there already, and they've gone, oh, this is rubbish, I'm
going to turn off. But actuallyFormula one isn't like that. You have
to keep watching until the check hisway to know what the result is,
and even then they could be postrace investigations and things like that, Oh
my goodness. Yes, you're notover until it's over. And I think
(34:57):
that's one of the things that Ithat's why I love Middle one is because
yes, you've got man and machine, and often you know, man is
like so hardcore they're going to keeppushing there like a different breed of human.
But sometimes the machine can fail onyou. So it's really like it's
not over till it's over. AndI think that's such an exciting element of
(35:19):
motor sport. That is one ofthe reasons why I love writing about it
and keep coming back. Indeed,all right, before we'll let you go,
Katie, I do have to askabout this. The hottest rumor this
week was that Nick Davrees, whohad such a green shown for Williams last
year, was hired by Alpha Towery, could be in trouble and that everybody,
everybody in America anyway, everybody's favoritedriver, Daniel Ricardo, who's the
(35:40):
Red Bull third driver right now,could be waiting in the wings to take
a seat if Nick Davrees can't getit together. We've seen reports to say
that might be the case, thatHelmet Marco might be telling Nick Davrees shape
up or you're out. We've allseen reports to say, no, no,
no, that's that's probably BS.What do you think. I think
a lot of people Paul have beenquick to jump on Nick Davris and be
(36:01):
quite critical of his performance, LikeI know that he had this amazing Monza
outing last year where he jumped intoa Williams such short notice, got points
outscored his more experienced teammate at WilliamsLatifee. But I think people need to
remember that, Yeah, Nick isstill just getting to grip to the Formula
(36:22):
one. The teammate that he's gotAt the moment, Yuki Snoda seems to
have really, you know, finallygot his act together. He's had a
couple of years in Formula one.Needn't remind people like the first few races
that Yuki did, he like almostdemolished the car. In the second,
they're qualifying an impla and people seemto be quite forgetful of that. So,
(36:43):
you know, I think people needto be a bit kinder to Nick
Debris. I'm not trying to compareNick Debris to somebody like Charlotte Clerk,
but you know, the Clerk wasrivaling for a championship last season, yet
in Miami made two massive mistakes,whereas Nick Debris had a little, let's
say, a whoops see it atthe start, which you know got knocked
off as a racing incident. Butyou know, people are acting like he's
(37:06):
crashing the car every session. He'smade a few mistakes here and there,
same mistakes that we've seen drivers made. He managed to DNF in Azerbaijan the
race before Miami, after whacking hisfront left on a corner of breaking the
suspension, which is a move thatLance Stroll, another experienced driver, made
the same error only a few lapslater, but managed to get away with
(37:28):
it. So I think people needto maybe have a little think about the
fact that he's still getting to gripswith the car. But yeah, in
terms of Daniel Ricardo coming back,I mean I might be slightly biased,
but I think most fans would absolutelylove that. He's such a big personality
and Red Bull have been like fuelingthe fire, saying that when Ricardo was
at McLaren he sort of left there. He was a shell of his former
(37:51):
self, you know, he christianhorned the team principle, sort of set
to Zach Brown, what did youdo to him? Like, we almost
didn't recognize him when we got himback. So I think I'm sure that
now Red Bull have been there,they've been, you know, fueling the
fire, getting the honey Badger asDaniel Riccardo is nicknamed hungry ready for a
seat. But we'll have to waitand see. I think that they'll still
(38:15):
be I think Red Bull won't makea decision until at least midway through the
season. That's a trait that we'veseen them do a couple of times before.
But for Nictivirise, I think hejust needs to get his head down,
don't listen to all of these rumors, these chatters, and yeah,
just keep working on getting to gripswith the car, getting this set up
how he likes it, and hopefullywe'll get back that nictive rise that we
(38:37):
saw him on so last year,where he's putting out some amazing performances and
it's amazing how quick narratives can changein Formula one. Indeed, Well,
Katy, this has been a joy. There's a hundred other things we can
ask you about, but we're runningout of time, so thank you so
much. Find Katy at Katie Fremandot com, SI dot com. Listen
(38:58):
to her Small Torque podcast. She'son Twitter's I just found you on Instagram
like a minute before we got onthe zoom. But anything else you want
to plug for the listeners before wesay goodbye, No, I think that's
pretty much everything. Thank you somuch. That's Katy Fairman. This is
overtime We'll be back with more nextkeep it here. Welcome back to overtime.
(39:21):
We are running out of program fortoday. My thanks to my guest
today, Andrew Perez of the Lever. Levernews dot com is where you find
his stuff. Some great reporting.Had a good story on Clarence Thomas,
had that story on greedflation. Allsorts of stuff you can find at levernews
dot com. You can find themon Twitter as well. And Katie Fairman
Formula one she used to be withWTF one now is on her own freelancing
(39:45):
r. It's for si dot comr. It's for the Formula E website.
Has her own podcast. It's calledthe Small Torque Podcast. You can
download that. It's just her talkingabout Formula one formulae and it's pretty entertaining.
Katie. Katie's awesome, so gosupport her stuff as well. Hope
you have a great weekend. Isthe first week it's probably hasn't been raining
(40:05):
in New Hampshire and it's been awesome. It's amazing how much said that sunshine
and vitamin D kind of half pullsyou out of seasonal depression. Regular depression.
Still there, the crushing weight ofbeing an adult in the twenty first
century. Still there, but atleast it's been sunny out right. All
right, that's gonna wrap it up. We will talk to you guys next
week. Until then, remember hippiesare bad people partending to be good.
(40:29):
Pumps are good people pretending to bebad. See you later.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com