June 17, 2023 • 43 mins
On this week's OVERTIME:
Michael McCann of UNH Law joins us to discuss the PGA Tour being swallowed up by LIV, and whether the Justice Department or Homeland Security will have something to say about that, plus a new NCAA Football game coming out next year and how much NCAA players will get paid.
Then Antjuan Seawright CBS News contributor and CEO of Blueprint Strategies joins Justin to discuss the latest Trump indictment, and what Juneteenth means to folks both Black and White.
Also, Justin remembers a time when Boomer parents needed reminders to do things like "Hug your kids".
Michael McCann on LIV and the PGA Tour
Antjuan Seawright on Juneteenth
Michael McCann of UNH Law joins us to discuss the PGA Tour being swallowed up by LIV, and whether the Justice Department or Homeland Security will have something to say about that, plus a new NCAA Football game coming out next year and how much NCAA players will get paid.
Then Antjuan Seawright CBS News contributor and CEO of Blueprint Strategies joins Justin to discuss the latest Trump indictment, and what Juneteenth means to folks both Black and White.
Also, Justin remembers a time when Boomer parents needed reminders to do things like "Hug your kids".
Michael McCann on LIV and the PGA Tour
Antjuan Seawright on Juneteenth
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome to over Time, the onlyradio show recommended by four out of five
dentists fifth dentists. We don't knowabout him. He's h he might be
irredeemable. I'm just mcconcie's devastatingly ahandsome and humble host. We got a
big show for you today, asthey're all big shows, but this one
is perhaps bigger. I don't knowby raw tonnage, by volume, It
(00:33):
hasn't quite been measured yet. Buttoday on the program where we're speaking with
Michael McCann, who's a professor atun H Law School about live golf essentially
buying out the PGA tour. Talkeda little bit about this last week,
but I figured I should probably findsomeone who knows some stuff about it.
So I got Michael McCann, who, like I said, he's a un
H law professor, but you've probablyseen him on ESPN. He used to
(00:54):
write for SI, he writes forSportaco. Now he's all over the place.
If if there's a if there's anopinion about sports and law to be
had, and God knows, weneed a lot of them at this point
because there's always something going on.Uh. Michael mccannon is the guy you
want to hear from, so heis on the program talking about that.
We also talk about uh the ncdoable a football video game, which it
(01:15):
was supposed to come out this yearand we'll be coming out next year.
This is if you're a dorc likeme, you will recall the NCUBA video
game. In a lot of aspects. It's a lot more fun to do
than the Madden games because the moreteams, there's a recruiting element involve blah
blah blah. But the problem wasuh YA was using uh you know,
(01:37):
player's image and likeness, and theywere not able to pay them because the
nc Douablea would not let them.So there has not been a legitimate college
football video game in over ten yearsor was it ten years? I'm trying
to think. I got a bootleg, not a bootleg copy. I had
a copy from a video game storein twenty because like somehow I lost my
original copy. I'd get another onein like twenty nineteen, and it was
(01:57):
like because it's rare, it waslike fifty year sixty dollars from a second
Anyway, it's been about ten yearssince it's been a legitimate college football video
game, so there was Yeah,it was supposed to release one this year.
It's actually gonna come out next yearfor the PS five and probably for
Xbox, I would imagine. Butwe talk a little bit about that as
well, and that I'm joined bymy friend Antoine Ce Right. Well,
(02:21):
I gotta tell you he is.I think he's one of the brightest guys
that I know. He is,of course a Democratic strategist, so I
think he's smart because I'm you know, I'm you know, Larry the lefty
over here, but just an overallextremely smart, bright guy. We talk
about, you know that everything that'shappened with the Trump and diamond he puts
(02:42):
on his political strategist had We talkedabout maybe what Republicans should do if they
want to knock him off for thenomination. And then we get into Juneteenth
and what that means. And Igotta tell you, you know, I
mentioned this with Antoine. If youdon't know what Juneteenth is. Juneteenth is
a celebration of, you know,the the last enslave people being freed after
the Civil War was over. Itwas June nineteenth of eighteen sixty five.
(03:05):
I forget what general was, butuh, in Texas. The you know,
even after the Civil War ended,they had to kind of get rid
of these pockets of resistance in theConfederacy. And the last group of enslaved
persons was freed by this general andhis name is escaping me because I'm not
all that bright. In June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, this became a
celebration among black folks, especially inTexas, but you know, in the
(03:29):
in the South. And I hadnot heard about what Juneteenth even was until
about ten fifteen years ago. AndI try, I try to know a
thing or two about a thing ortwo, but even even then, I
you know, when I when Idiscovered what it was, I was I
was kind of flabbergasted. I didn'tknow about it. And my wife,
who was along the same lines asme, she didn't know what Juneteenth was
(03:51):
until it became a federal holiday acouple of years ago. So, and
I think a lot of people,especially in New Hampshire, because let's face
it, this is not a verydiverse state. A lot of people New
Hampshire still don't know what Juneteenth is, even though they get the day off.
So we talk about, uh,you know, the origins of the
holiday and why it is so important, especially the black folks. But uh
to two people around the country.So Antoine will be on a program.
(04:15):
He appears in CBS News and writesfor all different publications. He's a strategy,
like I said, overall, justone of the smartest dudes, one
of the brightest dudes. I thinkI know. Uh. And it's smart
enough to stay away from New Hampshirein the winter usually except uh who had
met him during the during the primaryback in twenty twenty, right before the
height of the pan right before thepandemic kind of shut everything down around these
(04:38):
parts. So talk to him aswell. It was a big week in
the kinds of household, the youngestof the two, Keiley, graduating from
high school. Not gonna say,uh it was Niagara Falls over here,
but it was, it was,it was, it was close, fairly
close. It's Uh, it's wild, man. I had my wife on
(04:58):
the show a few weeks ago talkingabout the the impending empty nests that we're
facing. Uh. And and forGeneration X, who's who's coming up on
this? Uh, it's it's it'spretty wild because we you know, Generation
X is not a monolith. Buti'd say, as a generation, we're
a lot closer to our kids certainlythan the boomers were. Uh if you,
(05:19):
if you're on TikTok said this thinggoing around TikTok this week where uh
Generation and X creators are kind ofpointing out that Boomer parents they had to
have PSAs on the TV for themremind them to do things like know where
your kids are? It's ten pm? Do you know where your children are?
(05:40):
That was a PSA that ran onTV to remind the boomers like,
hey, you may want to keeptrack of your children just to make sure
they have a runaway or been kidnapped. Yeah, to remind them like,
hey, you have kids, wouldyou mind taking care of them? There
are PSAs like have you hugged yourchild today? That was a real thing.
(06:00):
These were real things that actually holdup. I'm gonna pull up some
audio of this and play some ofthese for you in case you don't believe
me. Mommy for supper. Can'tyou see that down? I just got
home busying enough that I work calledpagan. Yeah, these parents are mad
building aparently they're on Broadway too.I'm so mad. I can your face
(06:25):
something? Have you hugged your kidtoday, did you send them on sway
love? This is a real thing. She's a person, just like she's
a person's feelings too, So giveher. You had to remind the boomer
parents, hey, uh, weknow you're abusing your kids and creating general
(06:47):
racial trauma and that's fine, Butevery now and then, can you just
remember that they're a human being andmaybe stop slapping them long enough to give
him a hug it you? Youknow what, Hey, it's not just
that you'll get something out of ittoo. Okay, it's not a complete
and total loss. That's what wehave to tell the boopers. Back of
(07:08):
the day old on This is uh, this is the ten PM. Do
you know where your shoulders? Not? Here you go? Our most signature
This is from a news report.Do you know where your children are?
I think we have the most recognizabletagline in New York television history. Yeah
that was in New York, soI guess I thinks a little more sense
in the city. But you stillhave to remind the boomer parents. Uh,
(07:29):
you know, hey, uh,go find your kids. Here's another
one about spending time with your kids. Kake, you know how important it
is for your child to eat ahealthy breakfast. That's right. Kids in
the morning perform better, inflicts orsomething. Breakfast time is even more beneficial
if you were there to share mom'slooking on company. Rest is a good
(07:51):
time to talk about it, lastnight's dreams and today's plans to go by
the way, Yeah, don't don'tforget. You have to talk to these
things you're raising. And most ofthe time they didn't, Like a lot
of us were latchkey kids. Wewere just on our own and Farrell and
that's why nothing really bugs gen X. That's why we're there. There's not
a lot of us. We're kindof the hidden generation. But we you
(08:15):
know, we had to have PSA'sreminding our parents to spend time with us,
and we were kind of just lefton our own, and we spend
more time with our kids. Andthat's why it's a little bit weird when
they started graduating from high school andstuff like that, because we're like,
damn, I'm gonna die soon.Maybe not soon, but you know what
I'm saying, all right. Comingup next to the show, we talked
to Michael McCann of Sportico and uun H Law School about the liv Golf
(08:37):
PGA situation and the nc DOAA videogame that hopefully fingers Crossed is coming up
next year. That's next here andovertime, keep it here. Joining us
today on overtime. He's a legalexpert for Sportico, perhaps more importantly,
(08:58):
sports and Entertainment Laws director at theUniversity of New Hampshire Law School, the
one and only Michael McCann. Michael, thanks for being on the show today.
Thanks for having me. Justin's goodto see you. Good to see
you, and it's never a slowtime for you, but especially these past
few weeks have probably been even moreinteresting than most. With the merger it's
being called, it seems to bemore like a buyout by Live Golf and
(09:20):
the Saudi PIF of the PGA Tour. This is getting a lot of coverage,
especially this week with the US Openis at the La Country Club.
I'm no legal expert, as youmight imagine, I'm barely an expert and
being on the radio, but asI look at it, it sure seems
like this is just Live Golf buyingmen's professional golf in North America and Europe
(09:43):
to some extent with the dp Tour. Is am I correcting that assessment or
there's some nuances I'm missing. No, I think that's overall. Certainly there's
a lot of truth to what youjust said, and in your right to
highlight the word merger, because that'sa word that has a lot meaning that
potentially could have legal significance. Weknow that the Department of Justice and Congress,
(10:07):
the Homeland Security Committee in the Senate, and we know that some golfers
are all interested in the antitrust implicationsof what's going on, specifically, will
this eliminate competition among golf leagues andwill that lead to maybe lower compensation for
golfers, fewer events, not asgood for consumers. I mean, there's
all sorts of things that could happenthat haven't happened but could. And I
(10:31):
think your point about Live, whichof course is funded by PIF, the
entity that's run by the Saudi Arabiangovernment that invests in all sorts of different
things, that has billions and billionsof dollars they are funding this from what
we know now, I think it'simportant you know they're all what we know
(10:52):
is limited because it's not a finaldeal, and the wording that they're using
is sort of kind of ambiguous attimes times, but from what we know
this will be the Saudi's will fundthis to a great extent. Now the
PGA Tour will have a majority onthe board, so that would suggest the
PGA Tour is still going to havesome type of key role. But yeah,
(11:16):
I think justin what we're getting tothe extent this was an live was
an effort to gain legitimacy in sportsfor Saudi Arabia. They're getting it right
there. They mission accomplished because thegoal, I think was to create some
sort of legitimate league, and nowby partnering with the PGA Tour, they're
gaining that. Now. It tooka litigation, It took a very acrimonious
(11:39):
litigation, but in a way itlooks like they've succeeded. Yeah, and
now the Saudis have been kind ofnibbling around the edges the last few years
of this of what's called sportswashing.They had a number of ww events in
the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, oneof which was controversial as the I know
a few guys in the WWE,having used to be a pro wrestler myself,
and one after one of the eventsthere was an argument over how much
(12:03):
money Vince McMahon should be getting,and they wouldn't let the plainful wrestlers leave,
So that was interesting. There wasa similar situation with Formula one a
race in Saudi Arabia. There wasa rebel attack. The drivers didn't want
to race the next day, andthe Saudis kind of said, well,
that's you can do that and youmay have a hard time getting home.
So now the Saudis are kind oftheir first venture into major American professional sports,
(12:28):
and I think not surprisingly, notonly is the Department of Justice looking
at this, but the Department ofHomeland Security is looking at this. Is
that gonna come up the works forthis deal? Potentially it could because it
create could create all sorts of complexitiesthat give people cold feet at the end
to move forward. That a lotof the arguments the PGA Tour had against
(12:48):
Live We're based on the idea thatthis is not a trustworthy partner, That
this is Saudi Arabia. We knowthere are all sorts of concerns about human
rights, about national security, andas a consequence, why are we doing
business with them? I think thatthat's a legitimate point. Now, now
the PGA tour turns around and andbecomes good friends with them. I mean
(13:11):
it happened so abruptly too. Yeah, I mean I think of all the
golfers that turned down opportunities with livedbecause I think they were worried about being
depicted as unpatriotic or disloyal, right, and now their league turns around and
does so. You know, thisis a complicated deal that I think leads
to a lot of I mean,as Americans, of course, we're looking
(13:33):
at this the way we look atit, and a lot of the golfers
are Americans too, and their membersthe PGA Tour. So I've got to
think that's going to end up becominga problem, right, Yeah, Tiger
Woods, not the Tiger Woods isexactly you know, driving a broken down
Jelope to pick up his food stamps. But Tiger Woods turned down almost a
billion dollars from the Saundies. Andyou know, he's got more money than
(13:56):
elever need, but a billion stilla billion. He's probably looking at the
PGA to or who's all making nicenow, saying guys, what the hell
is this? Yeah, especially afterwhat we heard the PGA tours say.
I mean they were they were reallyintimating that this was some sort of unpatriotic
move. If you join live thatyou're you know, joining, and then
(14:16):
they then they joined them themselves.I mean, I don't know how how
you go to the membership after thatand say this is a good idea.
I realized maybe it makes sense moneywise, but you know, money's not
everything, and I think it's gotto I know as a fact there are
some golfers who are really irate aboutthis, and whether they do anything is
(14:39):
a separate question. Yeah, butthere are a number of golfers that are
irate. We're talking about Michael McKinney. He's a legal expert for sport a
COO. You've probably seen him allover the places on ESPN. He's a
Sports and Entertainment law director at Universityof New Hampshire Law School. Uh.
You, of course you wrote abook about or co authored, um and
(15:00):
correct me if I'm wrong, abook about with Ed O'Bannon about you know,
he rightly said, uh, youknow years ago, like, hey,
I'm a college athlete. There's videogames with college athletes, you know,
maybe not in name, but indepiction. And why am I not
getting paid for this? This thiskind of led to a series of events
where the last you know, fordorks like me who play the NCAA football
(15:20):
game, the last one to comeout was in twenty fourteen, and now
it looks like we're getting a newone. At college sports. As I
well know as someone who just broadcasts, it is a very complicated landscape as
far as as you know, playersgetting anil deals and amateurism and everything else
that nowadays it looks like players thatare in this game are gonna get paid,
(15:41):
but maybe not a whole lot.I mean, what what do we
see happening when this game comes out? A schedule for this year, looks
like it's going to come out nextyear. Yeah, so it looks like
EA, and nothing's definitive, butfrom what we know, it looks like
it will pay players five hundred dollarsto be in the game, a flat
rate, non negotiable, everyone getsthe same and EA is doing that probably
(16:03):
for a variety of reasons. Oneis that it's easy, right, It's
easy just to have a set rate, I mean, rather than negotiating individual
player contracts to be in a game. And this is in part because there's
no union, there's no players association, that if this were players Association there
maybe there could be some different levelsof pay, but that doesn't exist.
So ANYA doesn't want to individually negotiatewith thousands of players. So from EA's
(16:27):
perspective, it makes sense, andEA would have been making games years ago.
It's the NC double A, asyou alluded to, doesn't allow or
didn't allow players to get money fortheir name, image and likeness. Though
EA had a choice and negotiated withplayers that wouldn't get the IP the NC
Double A and colleges, right,so it had to make a choice.
So now they get both and they'reoffering five hundred dollars right, some players
(16:51):
are likely not going to take itnow, I don't know how many.
This is an interesting play about likewhat what is it worth to be in
a game? Most players are prettyanonymous, right, I mean, let's
face it, most college players arenot well known. They're they're kind of
interchangeable. There are some stars andmaybe they should get paid more than five
hundred, but that's not that's nothow it's going to work. And you
(17:14):
know you mentioned O so ED andI did write Court Justice and ED had
a settlement with Electronic Arts where playersgot paid about on average twelve hundred thirteen
hundred dollars for past games. Someof them got as much as seven thousand,
but most of them got a lotless. And you know, I
don't know what the monetary what theright number is. Maybe five hundred's too
(17:36):
low. But for I mean,I think there are a lot of players
that would take nothing, to behonest with you, to say, I'm
in a video game, right right? So yeah, like like you said,
like, if you're the backup tackleat ball State, five hundred bucks
in your likeness in the game,you know, it's kind of cool,
right, It's like, hey,look at this, you know what I
mean. But if you're if you'relike the middle linebacker for Georgia, you
could probably you know, you probablyhit for a lick on this. Y're
(17:59):
a little more than you deserve.But yeah, it's a do you ever
see a scenario? And gosh,who knows what's going to happen with with
college sports over the next five toten years. I don't. I really
don't envy Charlie Baker taken over theNC DOUBLEA with with the landscape. Maybe
I do envy them, yeah,looking at my bank stat But do you
see a scenario where there would besome sort of athletes union with NCAA athletes.
(18:22):
Northwestern football tried this a couple ofyears back and it kind of got
squashed. Do you see a scenariowhere this might happen. Yeah, I
do. So there are different waysthat could happen. There's currently out West
University of Southern California is involved ina matter befofre the NLRB where there's a
advocacy group for college players saying withtheir employees, and that's gonna there'll be
(18:45):
a hearing in November about that.Now that that doesn't mean there'll be employees
in November by any means, becauseit will then go to federal court and
then it could be appealed. Sowe're talking probably several steps, but that's
one route. And if they aredeemed employees, it would mean that their
employees not only of USC, butthey're joint employees of the PAC twelve and
(19:07):
also the nc double A. Thatbecomes a point because under the law,
so the National Labor Relations Act isthis federal law that governs basically private employer,
So all these private colleges, butas we know in college sports,
a lot of the big big programsor public universities. Right, they're governed
by state law. But here's thething. If you have a player at
Alabama who maybe under Alabama law campbeing an employee of Alabama University of Alabama,
(19:32):
he might be an employee of theNC double A under the scenario because
they're a joint employer. So jointemployer is like like a franchise, franchise
or right, you work out aMcDonald's, are you also a joint employee
of McDonald's corporation? That kind ofthing. So that's one route. Another
route, which wouldn't lead to unionizationbut would lead to employment recognition, is
(19:55):
a case in Pennsylvania. So thereare college players suing saying, we why
is it that our classmates who arework study who go work at the games
we're playing, and why are theypaid? And we're not right, liberally,
you have classmates that are getting paidto bring people to seats, to
take the tickets when they go intothe stadium. They're paid. And some
(20:17):
of them are on scholarship too.It isn't like the scholarship explains it all
the way. Some of them haveacademic scholarships, So why are they in
that case is before the Third Circuitand Justin there was a hearing in February
and there were three judges. Onewas appointed by President Clinton, won by
President Obama, won by President Trump. Very different ideologist, right, yeah,
liberal, conservative, centrists whatever.They were so critical the NC double
(20:44):
A. Yeah, that's a badsign for the NC double A. Right,
when you have conservative and liberal judgesall saying what you're what you're selling
us, doesn't make sense. Iwould be worried I from the NC double
A. Yeah. The NCAA gotto clock Clay in the Supreme Court a
few years back too, So it'sit's a complicated situation and I don't think
it's gonna get any less complicated overthe next few years. So Michael mccamn
will be leading on you for yourexpertise, and I appreciate you joining us
(21:07):
on the show. Find him atMcCann sports Law on Twitter. Check out
the stuff on Sport of Code.If you go to U and NH,
take this lat classes because they're they'rea very informational and informative. Mike's thanks
so much for being on the programtoday. Thanks for having Justin. Have
you going kind enough to join ustoday on overtime, old friend of ours.
(21:29):
He's a contributor to CBS News,also as an article in the Roots
dot com this weekend, the CEOand everything else you can imagine for blueprint
strategies. I'll see the one andonly Antoine c Right. How you doing,
Antoine? Well, may man,it's good to be back with you
justin and you're extended and growing audience. But most important, it's good to
(21:49):
be back in one of the coldeststates I've ever visited. Well, you
are coming to us from Minnesota,which I think is one of the few
states not right now in the winter. Can can take the mantle from New
Hampshire is being cold? They havelike underground tunnels and whatnot, right,
so you don't have to be outside. Well, notice, coldest state I
(22:10):
haven't visited in the winter because I'msmart enough to know you don't come here
and finish. That makes Amy Clover'sfamous snow visitation. I would say,
campaign in the snow? Will youdid you skip that one? Or are
you at that? I certainly skipthat one, man, Just in.
(22:33):
My bones are not made for thatkind of weather. You know. My
southern bones are adjustable to only certainclimates, the cold weather. Ain't want
to listen. I'm born and raisedhere and I'll tell you what. Maybe
my ancestors came from the southern partof Scotland because I'm not built for this
stuff either. I tell you what, It's a different cut of the meat,
(22:55):
as they say down the south.Well, as you can imagine that
Antoine has been is he as aDemocratic stragistant operative as we're in full swing
here for the twenty twenty four primary, even though it's mid twenty twenty three
and the leader in the Republican pollsis Donald Trump. But he's also leader
in number of indictments. He hastwo under his belt, the latest one
(23:17):
being the most serious for the mishandlinga classified documents. It does it has
not seemed to slow him down.But this is kind of historical, Antoine.
I'm a former president running for president, do you know, doing crimes
everywhere and now being held to account. But of course, if you listen
to what he has to say,this is all the big witch on I'm
gonna I'm gonna guess you disagree alittle bit. Well, a couple of
(23:38):
things that twice impeach, twice indictedformer president still has a grip block and
a tight grip block on Republican primaryvoters. And I remind everyone justin that
you cannot be president of the UnitedStates without being president of the Republican Party.
(24:00):
You can't be president of the UnitedStates without being president of the Democratic
Party. That was Joe Biden's firststep. What it tells me is that
there is a group of people inthis country who are chemically make up the
Republican Party who no matter what happensto Donald J. Trump, the former
president, they are going to stickby them. That's why you see these
(24:22):
Republican candidates who names are not DonaldTrump, who try to run away from
Trump but embrace Trump is m Nowyou're going to ask me what the hell
is trump ISNM, Well, Iwould just share with you it's anything right
wing extreme that can be couched upas some sort of agenda, whether it's
policy, personality or political that isalways anti whatever the Democrats have to sing.
(24:48):
Now in most cases I think iswild and crazy as hell, because
there's not a constituency in this countrywho has not benefited from the Biden,
Harris and Democrats the agenda. Butif you let the Republicans tell the story.
Those who embrace white supremacy and thosewho embrace white nationalism, those who
think they're good people on both sides, those who think Mexicans are rapists and
(25:11):
thugs, those who, you know, all the things that come along with
Trump, somehow another they were toput all that aside and somehow embrace the
phone president. It baffles the hellout of me. And here's a challenge
with every other candidate not named DonaldTrump and the Republican primary preference primary.
The challenge is unlike the Democratic primary, where we have win place a show
(25:33):
kind of like horse stadding, it'swin a tank, all right. So
there is no second place in theRepublican primary. So all this talk about
the santast place in second and allthese other people's second heard, it really
doesn't matter because it's going to takeall in every single state when it comes
to the Republican primary. And notto mention like, let's say there's a
(25:56):
scenario where Donald Trump, you know, loses a close one to Ronda said
this or one of the other candidates. As far as delegates go, this
is not a person who if ifif passes prologue, is just gonna say,
oh I guess I lost. I'mgonna let this go. I mean,
it's gonna be it's gonna be adog fight into the convention and perhaps
beyond, and who who knows whatelse happens. Republicans, by embracing this
(26:19):
type of rhetoric, you know,kind of quietly in the last thirty years,
but now more loudly over the lasteight or so, have really painted
themselves into a corner, are theynot? They have? And the scary
part about it is that we've seenwhat happens when Trump loses. We've seen
the insurrection January six. We sawwhere you have now a large group of
(26:41):
people who believe that the election wasrigged and stolen because he did not win.
You had this idea that because hedid not win, there's been laws
implement it around the country to suppressand suffocate people's votes, and somehow another
the one thing that all of ushave always agreed, whether black, white,
(27:02):
Democrats, Republicans, that the integrityof our elections are sealed and that
when our vote is task is counted. That's no longer the case in this
country because only because Donald Trump loss. We've seen Republican candids loose before,
but they all bowed out gracefully.Now because of Trump is them and led
by Trump, that's no longer thecase. So every election is now giving
(27:26):
people a scratch your head kind ofmoment like is this true? Is it
valid? Is it not? Doesmy vote real account? That's the scared
part. And then the thing thatwe've seen more and more justined in our
elections is what I call misinformation,disinformation outside of the fence. Whether it'
from Russia, whether it's China,whether it's Iran, whether it's North Korea,
all these people who are playing intoour elections, all those factors will
(27:48):
go into whatever the results of theRepublican primary is. And then the other
piece Republicans may have the rest ofwhere if somehow Trump does not men is
whether or not he embraces the nomineeand other than not hit, the Trump
army will wrap their arms around whoeverthe nominee is. Because I live with
PTSD every day, political PTSD everyday. From twenty to sixteen, where
(28:10):
we had Hillary Clinton, the mostqualified person to ever run for office,
win our nomination process, running againstthe most unqualified person that ever runs the
office. He had a lot ofpeople who were not for Hillary in the
primer, who did not vote forher in the general election to vote a
third party, and as a result, the world got Donald Trump as the
(28:30):
leader of the free world, presidentof the United States. We're talking to
Antoine c Right, CBS News contributor. He's the CEO of Blueprint Strategies LLLC.
So not that you or I wouldeverhe wants to give advice to the
growing field of Republican candidates, becausethat's not really how I roll, and
that's not really how you roll.Butt. Let's let's give a hypothetically here.
(28:51):
Put on your consultant cap, youryour advisory cap for a moment.
What would you say to the restof this field who you know, you
can't become president until you win inthe domination. You can't win the nomination
till you defeat Donald Trump. Whatwould you say to the folks as an
advisor about how to go about doingthat, because it doesn't seem like they're
doing what needs to be done atthis point. I would say the tackle
(29:12):
of the challenges that really exist inthis country. The one thing voters do
not want is that we hear alot of noise, but they want lyrics,
and we don't always hear lyrics fromthe Republican Party. We just hear
the same noise, right wing racism, bigger hate extremism, just say no
to everything, but no real policyagenda. While we know most voters in
(29:33):
the Republican Party or emotional voters,but there are some who are looking for
an alternative, They're looking for apolicy agenda, and they're looking for in
alternatives. I would say provide yourselfas or lead as an alternative to Trump
isn't And yes, that may notget your short term victory, but it'll
get you long term success because therewill be a day in which the country
(29:56):
and the party will move on fromdown Trump. I don't know when that
is so, and I don't knowwhat that looks like, but there will
be a pivot, and so youwant to be a position to be able
to, I think, suck upthe energy from the pivot. And right
now you can't find a candidate runningwho has a different policy agenda from Trump,
and only very few of them whowilling to take Trump on. And
(30:17):
I think that is a long termthing because even if Trump does not win
the presidency this time around, therewill be life after him, and so
you got to get a paid fortwenty twenty eight and years to come.
And I think the refurbishing or therebranding of the Republican Party starts with all
these people who are challenging him inthis nomination process. Yeah, it's interesting
(30:37):
because they kind of went through theRepublican Party. That's something after the twenty
twelve election, they had the postmortem report or whatever they called it,
where they said, we have toyou know, we have to reach out
to people of color and women,and we have to become a broader based
party. And then Trump ran forpresident and we're like, yeah about that,
We're not gonna pay much attention tothat. So it's almost as though
(31:02):
you have to look to the pastto see to the future if you're in
the Republican Party. But it makesit difficult when Trump sucks up all the
oxygen in the room. Well,the challenges, you know, people say
one thing and they do dude toanother they do another. And if you
look at the policy agenda of everyRepublican candidate who is running for the nomination,
(31:23):
should be told is why they maysay they want to embrace people of
color and women all that kind ofstuff. Nobody can speak to what they
mean when they say that, andso there's no there's no bike to back
up their bark on that on thatfront, particular from a policy perspective.
It just just as a as astudent of the game, so to speak,
(31:45):
you're more expert in this than Iam. Have you ever seen or
have you ever read of or everhas studied any political party or you know,
worldwide nationwide whatever? Where? Uhthe the you know, the Trumps
up, so to speak. It'sthe Kennedy itself is really what the movement
is all about. That and youcan't really you know, you did a
(32:05):
pretty good job I think of definingwhat Trump is them is, but it's
not even an orthodoxy. It's justlike we like this guy as a celebrity.
We ever have you ever seen anythinglike this in politics anywhere? Yeah,
I mean, you know, thereare a lot of people I want
to get that. I want toget this right. There are a lot
of people who compare the activities inthis movement Trump has created to Hitlin.
I'm just saying that that is fact. There are people who have made those
(32:29):
observations. I think that America isstill a very young country. We're still
figuring out who we want to bewhen we grow up. And so,
in fact, I think it wasRoosevelt or even Franklin who called an American
experiment. And the reality is,because we're in the experiment, it may
be our children or our grand childrenthat determine whether we work or not.
(32:52):
So other people call this this firstrough draft history, and I think that
compared to the rest of the wherewe're still younger, we're still figuring out.
So there were be movements, andthere will be moments of that come
along. Whether it's Trump, whetherit's Obama, whether it's whoever it is,
there will be movements that will challengeus and in some cases cause us
to overeat. Trump causes overeat,in some cases cause the tectonic place to
(33:15):
shift in this country. That wasBarack Obama. And so because of that,
I think we won't see the lastof this kind of movement. I
can't describe what it is, butwhat I do know is Trump is tapped
into a group of people and themovement of folks who've been hibernating for a
very long time. Now they seedaylight, they see someone, and they
(33:35):
have someone who actually embraces what theythink and what they feel. And now
they're unapologetic about making that known.Whether these keyboard thuds, whether these white
supremacists who march and who shoot upgrocery stores and shoot up churches and do
all this stuff. These people feellike they have a voice. They march
on the capitol, they feel likethey have someone who embrace what they've been
(33:59):
thinking and feeling for a very longtime. And that's a scary part because
some of those people as a lawyers, doctors, engineers, teachers, business
owners and so forth. And wedon't know. My mother always says,
it's good. The devil you don'tknow is the one you don't have to
work about. It's a devil youdo not know is the one you have
to worry. The devils that wedo know about those who fall into this
movement are the ones that I worryabout. And it's one thing. If
(34:21):
you think that Trump is good onpolicy, but anybody who supports him can
no can can never tell me whythey like him from a politic perspective or
what about him do they embrace froma politic perspective. None of his voters
who support him can can articulate whatthey is. The only thing they can
say is we're anti Joe Biden,We're anti commel ass, were anti Hillary
(34:43):
Clinton, we're anti Baracko, we'reanti Democratic Party. And not only that,
I've thought the arguments of people thatare used to be friends, but
they are no longer that voted forDonald Trump. Where I've you know,
I've said to them, like,you may not consider yourself a racist,
but if you vote for Donald Trump, what you are saying is racism is
not a deal breaker. And atthe end of the day, that's kind
of the same thing, right,I mean you you you simply embrace racist.
(35:06):
I mean you embrace racism when youcall African countries whole countries. That's
an embracing. That's an embracing racism. When you say stand back and stand
by, knowing as a trigger forthe for the Proud Boards and so forth,
when you say you will give thosefolks a pardon. All the things
that have happened during the Trump presidencyand post presidents that you see when you
(35:28):
go to when you go to dinnerwith the neo Nazi or white supprincis,
that is embracing racism. Whether youwant to agree to it or not,
that's what you're saying that I'm okeywith, and I think that is the
dangerous part. We're talking with.Antoine c Right, the CEO of Blueprint
Strategy LLC, CBS News contributor andprolific author, always has articles coming out
and I wanted to talk to youabout the article you had in The Root
(35:52):
this week about June Teeth. Now, just just a quick little background,
like as a as a white kidgrowing up in New Hampshire, um I,
and as someone who tries to expandhis horizons and learn about all the
different you know, races and culturesin this country and in the world.
Uh, even someone like myself,like I didn't really know what June Teeth
was until about fifteen years ago.And I and you know, that was
(36:15):
as part of my journey. Iwas like, what the hell is this?
And I was like, oh,this is a holiday in Texas and
you know, or maybe not anofficial holiday, but a celebration. Even
someone like my wife until the holidaywas actually declared. She's she's of the
like mind with me. She's like, she was embarrassed she didn't know what
June teeth was, so uh,could you could you you know, tell
the listeners why Juneteenth is such animportant holiday for black folks, and and
(36:38):
and because I think people around herelike, oh, we got a holiday,
that's great. They don't know theydon't know what it is or why
it's so significant and so important.I think that's right. Look, uh,
you know the reason why Juneteenth isso important because in most cases known
as Black people Freedom Day is knownas our emancipation Day. It's it's known
(37:00):
as full freedom fulfillment for black folks. Just to walk you through history,
you know, it's in an AfricanAmerican tradition that we celebrate what we call
watch Night Service on New Year's Eve, and it's a church service that we
have in order to bring into thenew to the new year. Well,
they started Watching Night Service because peoplegathered knowing that Lincoln was going to sign
(37:23):
the Emancipation Proclamation to give black folksto freedom. So it was a pre
celebration to January of that year tothe signing of that, and so they
called it watch Night. They're watchingthe night for midnight to hear black people
will be free. Well, thereason Juneteenth came about it was because it
was two years later, justin beforethat word made it to Texas that black
(37:50):
folks were finally free two years.So there were people living in Bondis for
two years who did not know theemancipation was signed. So I always count
Juneteenth is a lack of communication,right because I travel from one side of
the country to another, and sowhen the word did travel, there was
a general who gave the notice thatblack folks are free two thousand plus soldiers,
(38:15):
and the word travel, we getthe We get the name June Teeth
because it happened on June seventeenth ofthat year, two years after the mental
place and practical bastion that officially gaveblack folks their freedom. Now here's why
it's so important to not couch JuneTeeth as just a black holiday is because
when black folks are free, thatmean America's free. And that's why we
(38:37):
can't couch just as just a holidayto celebrate black folks. This should be
celebrated by all folks because that meansevery American in this country has had their
freedom papers. We officially have theirpapers. And the reason I wrote that
article justin to give people a history, and the reason why I titled that
Tun Teeth should not be just aBlack Holiday should be an American holiday,
(38:59):
because that's a real oversized effort inthis country to white wat's history, to
ban books and to minimize the contributionto the black folks. And I would
die. I would go to mygrave and die before I let anybody minimize
the contributions that my parents and grandparentsand people who look like me to make
to this country, because we haven'tdone so much for this country to help
(39:21):
groom and mold and shape this country. And I'll be damned about white supremacists,
white nationalists, or even those whosupport those movements and efforts like Raw
Descentis and others ban out history,because we should be expanding history. You
cannot have American history without Black history, and black history is American history.
Yeah, it's it's amazing, youknow, it's we've seen, like you
(39:42):
said, I moving to this countryto try to erase uh, you know,
black history. It's especially in Florida, the Rn descentis. But this
is something that just wasn't taught tome as a as a kid growing up
in New Hampshire. You know,if it's a lily white state, less
so now then it used to be. But still for the most part,
you know, majority white, andI think it's so important to learn the
history behind things like this. Andlike you said, the events Pation Proclamation
(40:05):
was in eighteen sixty three. Itwasn't until June of eighteen sixty five.
The Civil War been over for twomonths, but the Union hadn't recaptured you
know, parts of Texas, andthis was the last place really that people
were still enslaved. And so it'sit's it's really a fascinating you know,
to learn the history of this holiday, and it's important to celebrated, I
(40:25):
think. And that's the thing is, well, we now have a federal
holiday, and that only happened becauseblack people came out to vote in twenty
in the twenty twenty election and electedJoe Biden Kamala Harris. That's the only
reason we have this holiday. We'vehad presidents and leaders up until that,
up until twenty twenty, who nevereven thought about making Juneteenth alabat. And
(40:47):
I think it's a pure demonstration thatyou know, your vote matters and it
has some weight and it can makea difference because it's only been policy that
has changed this country, not marching, not politics alone, but it's been
policy that moved the needle towards progress, and in every election is our chance
to renew our freedom card. Andthat's what I believe to be the most
(41:09):
powerful thing we have in a democraticsociety is our right to vote and our
right to participate. That's why Iworry like hair of these oversized efforts to
suppress and suffocate our votes and toban history. We need to be expanding
the history, not just for June. People need to know about the Tulsa
masker, They need to know aboutthe Will Wilmington masker, they need to
(41:29):
know about what happened in Charleston.Every day history is being recreated and we
need to tell our children and ourgrandchildren about that. Well, Entine c
right, It's not your job toedge kids, but I appreciate you trying
to do so. And I appreciateyou coming on the show. You're everywhere
and everywhere I know you're like,you're in one city today and another tomorrow.
We'll look for you on CBS News, and we'll look for you on
(41:50):
the and the Root worlds. Canwe find your writings the Messenger right from
the Messenger now of course to healbeet dot com. So I'm in a
couple of different places, the mostimportant to Jin. I appreciate the opportunity
I have to engage with you.You're a white man from New Hampshire.
I'm a black man from rural SouthCarolina. It's a pure demonstration of how
(42:15):
far we've come in this country,but also a pure demonstration how far we
have to go because the fact thatyou don't know about Juneteenth, the fact
that a lot of people who evenlook like me have not experienced what June
teen really means. It means thatwe've made progress, but there's no such
thing as a finish line in thiscountry. All Right, my man,
I appreciate it. Let's keep theconversation go. We'll talk again soon.
(42:37):
Thank you. Justin walking back toovertime, were running out of the show
that it's just about gonna do itfor this week by thanks to Michael McKinnon,
you and Age Law and sported comfortalking about little golf in the fay
Way us something. I'm taking allthis on Friday. It's been way too
easy. I want to see paintin that tournament. I want to see
(43:00):
plus two beat a winning score.Not there's eight under for one round.
Stuff. But thanks to Michael Kenfor talking about that. Also to Antoine
see right talking about Trump, alsotalking about Juneteenth, why that's important to
everybody, not just black folks.And now thanks to you for listening in.
Remember if you missed any of theshow, you can subscribe to the
podcast, check it out, giveus a five star review, and all
that other stuff, and we willsee you next week. Until then,
(43:22):
don't forget hippies are bad people andpretending to be good. Pumps are good
people pretending to be bad. Peaceof love will see you. Let it
Welcome to over Time, the onlyradio show recommended by four out of five
dentists fifth dentists. We don't knowabout him. He's h he might be
irredeemable. I'm just mcconcie's devastatingly ahandsome and humble host. We got a
big show for you today, asthey're all big shows, but this one
is perhaps bigger. I don't knowby raw tonnage, by volume, It
(00:33):
hasn't quite been measured yet. Buttoday on the program where we're speaking with
Michael McCann, who's a professor atun H Law School about live golf essentially
buying out the PGA tour. Talkeda little bit about this last week,
but I figured I should probably findsomeone who knows some stuff about it.
So I got Michael McCann, who, like I said, he's a un
H law professor, but you've probablyseen him on ESPN. He used to
(00:54):
write for SI, he writes forSportaco. Now he's all over the place.
If if there's a if there's anopinion about sports and law to be
had, and God knows, weneed a lot of them at this point
because there's always something going on.Uh. Michael mccannon is the guy you
want to hear from, so heis on the program talking about that.
We also talk about uh the ncdoable a football video game, which it
(01:15):
was supposed to come out this yearand we'll be coming out next year.
This is if you're a dorc likeme, you will recall the NCUBA video
game. In a lot of aspects. It's a lot more fun to do
than the Madden games because the moreteams, there's a recruiting element involve blah
blah blah. But the problem wasuh YA was using uh you know,
(01:37):
player's image and likeness, and theywere not able to pay them because the
nc Douablea would not let them.So there has not been a legitimate college
football video game in over ten yearsor was it ten years? I'm trying
to think. I got a bootleg, not a bootleg copy. I had
a copy from a video game storein twenty because like somehow I lost my
original copy. I'd get another onein like twenty nineteen, and it was
(01:57):
like because it's rare, it waslike fifty year sixty dollars from a second
Anyway, it's been about ten yearssince it's been a legitimate college football video
game, so there was Yeah,it was supposed to release one this year.
It's actually gonna come out next yearfor the PS five and probably for
Xbox, I would imagine. Butwe talk a little bit about that as
well, and that I'm joined bymy friend Antoine Ce Right. Well,
(02:21):
I gotta tell you he is.I think he's one of the brightest guys
that I know. He is,of course a Democratic strategist, so I
think he's smart because I'm you know, I'm you know, Larry the lefty
over here, but just an overallextremely smart, bright guy. We talk
about, you know that everything that'shappened with the Trump and diamond he puts
(02:42):
on his political strategist had We talkedabout maybe what Republicans should do if they
want to knock him off for thenomination. And then we get into Juneteenth
and what that means. And Igotta tell you, you know, I
mentioned this with Antoine. If youdon't know what Juneteenth is. Juneteenth is
a celebration of, you know,the the last enslave people being freed after
the Civil War was over. Itwas June nineteenth of eighteen sixty five.
(03:05):
I forget what general was, butuh, in Texas. The you know,
even after the Civil War ended,they had to kind of get rid
of these pockets of resistance in theConfederacy. And the last group of enslaved
persons was freed by this general andhis name is escaping me because I'm not
all that bright. In June nineteenth, eighteen sixty five, this became a
celebration among black folks, especially inTexas, but you know, in the
(03:29):
in the South. And I hadnot heard about what Juneteenth even was until
about ten fifteen years ago. AndI try, I try to know a
thing or two about a thing ortwo, but even even then, I
you know, when I when Idiscovered what it was, I was I
was kind of flabbergasted. I didn'tknow about it. And my wife,
who was along the same lines asme, she didn't know what Juneteenth was
(03:51):
until it became a federal holiday acouple of years ago. So, and
I think a lot of people,especially in New Hampshire, because let's face
it, this is not a verydiverse state. A lot of people New
Hampshire still don't know what Juneteenth is, even though they get the day off.
So we talk about, uh,you know, the origins of the
holiday and why it is so important, especially the black folks. But uh
to two people around the country.So Antoine will be on a program.
(04:15):
He appears in CBS News and writesfor all different publications. He's a strategy,
like I said, overall, justone of the smartest dudes, one
of the brightest dudes. I thinkI know. Uh. And it's smart
enough to stay away from New Hampshirein the winter usually except uh who had
met him during the during the primaryback in twenty twenty, right before the
height of the pan right before thepandemic kind of shut everything down around these
(04:38):
parts. So talk to him aswell. It was a big week in
the kinds of household, the youngestof the two, Keiley, graduating from
high school. Not gonna say,uh it was Niagara Falls over here,
but it was, it was,it was, it was close, fairly
close. It's Uh, it's wild, man. I had my wife on
(04:58):
the show a few weeks ago talkingabout the the impending empty nests that we're
facing. Uh. And and forGeneration X, who's who's coming up on
this? Uh, it's it's it'spretty wild because we you know, Generation
X is not a monolith. Buti'd say, as a generation, we're
a lot closer to our kids certainlythan the boomers were. Uh if you,
(05:19):
if you're on TikTok said this thinggoing around TikTok this week where uh
Generation and X creators are kind ofpointing out that Boomer parents they had to
have PSAs on the TV for themremind them to do things like know where
your kids are? It's ten pm? Do you know where your children are?
(05:40):
That was a PSA that ran onTV to remind the boomers like,
hey, you may want to keeptrack of your children just to make sure
they have a runaway or been kidnapped. Yeah, to remind them like,
hey, you have kids, wouldyou mind taking care of them? There
are PSAs like have you hugged yourchild today? That was a real thing.
(06:00):
These were real things that actually holdup. I'm gonna pull up some
audio of this and play some ofthese for you in case you don't believe
me. Mommy for supper. Can'tyou see that down? I just got
home busying enough that I work calledpagan. Yeah, these parents are mad
building aparently they're on Broadway too.I'm so mad. I can your face
(06:25):
something? Have you hugged your kidtoday, did you send them on sway
love? This is a real thing. She's a person, just like she's
a person's feelings too, So giveher. You had to remind the boomer
parents, hey, uh, weknow you're abusing your kids and creating general
(06:47):
racial trauma and that's fine, Butevery now and then, can you just
remember that they're a human being andmaybe stop slapping them long enough to give
him a hug it you? Youknow what, Hey, it's not just
that you'll get something out of ittoo. Okay, it's not a complete
and total loss. That's what wehave to tell the boopers. Back of
(07:08):
the day old on This is uh, this is the ten PM. Do
you know where your shoulders? Not? Here you go? Our most signature
This is from a news report.Do you know where your children are?
I think we have the most recognizabletagline in New York television history. Yeah
that was in New York, soI guess I thinks a little more sense
in the city. But you stillhave to remind the boomer parents. Uh,
(07:29):
you know, hey, uh,go find your kids. Here's another
one about spending time with your kids. Kake, you know how important it
is for your child to eat ahealthy breakfast. That's right. Kids in
the morning perform better, inflicts orsomething. Breakfast time is even more beneficial
if you were there to share mom'slooking on company. Rest is a good
(07:51):
time to talk about it, lastnight's dreams and today's plans to go by
the way, Yeah, don't don'tforget. You have to talk to these
things you're raising. And most ofthe time they didn't, Like a lot
of us were latchkey kids. Wewere just on our own and Farrell and
that's why nothing really bugs gen X. That's why we're there. There's not
a lot of us. We're kindof the hidden generation. But we you
(08:15):
know, we had to have PSA'sreminding our parents to spend time with us,
and we were kind of just lefton our own, and we spend
more time with our kids. Andthat's why it's a little bit weird when
they started graduating from high school andstuff like that, because we're like,
damn, I'm gonna die soon.Maybe not soon, but you know what
I'm saying, all right. Comingup next to the show, we talked
to Michael McCann of Sportico and uun H Law School about the liv Golf
(08:37):
PGA situation and the nc DOAA videogame that hopefully fingers Crossed is coming up
next year. That's next here andovertime, keep it here. Joining us
today on overtime. He's a legalexpert for Sportico, perhaps more importantly,
(08:58):
sports and Entertainment Laws director at theUniversity of New Hampshire Law School, the
one and only Michael McCann. Michael, thanks for being on the show today.
Thanks for having me. Justin's goodto see you. Good to see
you, and it's never a slowtime for you, but especially these past
few weeks have probably been even moreinteresting than most. With the merger it's
being called, it seems to bemore like a buyout by Live Golf and
(09:20):
the Saudi PIF of the PGA Tour. This is getting a lot of coverage,
especially this week with the US Openis at the La Country Club.
I'm no legal expert, as youmight imagine, I'm barely an expert and
being on the radio, but asI look at it, it sure seems
like this is just Live Golf buyingmen's professional golf in North America and Europe
(09:43):
to some extent with the dp Tour. Is am I correcting that assessment or
there's some nuances I'm missing. No, I think that's overall. Certainly there's
a lot of truth to what youjust said, and in your right to
highlight the word merger, because that'sa word that has a lot meaning that
potentially could have legal significance. Weknow that the Department of Justice and Congress,
(10:07):
the Homeland Security Committee in the Senate, and we know that some golfers
are all interested in the antitrust implicationsof what's going on, specifically, will
this eliminate competition among golf leagues andwill that lead to maybe lower compensation for
golfers, fewer events, not asgood for consumers. I mean, there's
all sorts of things that could happenthat haven't happened but could. And I
(10:31):
think your point about Live, whichof course is funded by PIF, the
entity that's run by the Saudi Arabiangovernment that invests in all sorts of different
things, that has billions and billionsof dollars they are funding this from what
we know now, I think it'simportant you know they're all what we know
(10:52):
is limited because it's not a finaldeal, and the wording that they're using
is sort of kind of ambiguous attimes times, but from what we know
this will be the Saudi's will fundthis to a great extent. Now the
PGA Tour will have a majority onthe board, so that would suggest the
PGA Tour is still going to havesome type of key role. But yeah,
(11:16):
I think justin what we're getting tothe extent this was an live was
an effort to gain legitimacy in sportsfor Saudi Arabia. They're getting it right
there. They mission accomplished because thegoal, I think was to create some
sort of legitimate league, and nowby partnering with the PGA Tour, they're
gaining that. Now. It tooka litigation, It took a very acrimonious
(11:39):
litigation, but in a way itlooks like they've succeeded. Yeah, and
now the Saudis have been kind ofnibbling around the edges the last few years
of this of what's called sportswashing.They had a number of ww events in
the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, oneof which was controversial as the I know
a few guys in the WWE,having used to be a pro wrestler myself,
and one after one of the eventsthere was an argument over how much
(12:03):
money Vince McMahon should be getting,and they wouldn't let the plainful wrestlers leave,
So that was interesting. There wasa similar situation with Formula one a
race in Saudi Arabia. There wasa rebel attack. The drivers didn't want
to race the next day, andthe Saudis kind of said, well,
that's you can do that and youmay have a hard time getting home.
So now the Saudis are kind oftheir first venture into major American professional sports,
(12:28):
and I think not surprisingly, notonly is the Department of Justice looking
at this, but the Department ofHomeland Security is looking at this. Is
that gonna come up the works forthis deal? Potentially it could because it
create could create all sorts of complexitiesthat give people cold feet at the end
to move forward. That a lotof the arguments the PGA Tour had against
(12:48):
Live We're based on the idea thatthis is not a trustworthy partner, That
this is Saudi Arabia. We knowthere are all sorts of concerns about human
rights, about national security, andas a consequence, why are we doing
business with them? I think thatthat's a legitimate point. Now, now
the PGA tour turns around and andbecomes good friends with them. I mean
(13:11):
it happened so abruptly too. Yeah, I mean I think of all the
golfers that turned down opportunities with livedbecause I think they were worried about being
depicted as unpatriotic or disloyal, right, and now their league turns around and
does so. You know, thisis a complicated deal that I think leads
to a lot of I mean,as Americans, of course, we're looking
(13:33):
at this the way we look atit, and a lot of the golfers
are Americans too, and their membersthe PGA Tour. So I've got to
think that's going to end up becominga problem, right, Yeah, Tiger
Woods, not the Tiger Woods isexactly you know, driving a broken down
Jelope to pick up his food stamps. But Tiger Woods turned down almost a
billion dollars from the Saundies. Andyou know, he's got more money than
(13:56):
elever need, but a billion stilla billion. He's probably looking at the
PGA to or who's all making nicenow, saying guys, what the hell
is this? Yeah, especially afterwhat we heard the PGA tours say.
I mean they were they were reallyintimating that this was some sort of unpatriotic
move. If you join live thatyou're you know, joining, and then
(14:16):
they then they joined them themselves.I mean, I don't know how how
you go to the membership after thatand say this is a good idea.
I realized maybe it makes sense moneywise, but you know, money's not
everything, and I think it's gotto I know as a fact there are
some golfers who are really irate aboutthis, and whether they do anything is
(14:39):
a separate question. Yeah, butthere are a number of golfers that are
irate. We're talking about Michael McKinney. He's a legal expert for sport a
COO. You've probably seen him allover the places on ESPN. He's a
Sports and Entertainment law director at Universityof New Hampshire Law School. Uh.
You, of course you wrote abook about or co authored, um and
(15:00):
correct me if I'm wrong, abook about with Ed O'Bannon about you know,
he rightly said, uh, youknow years ago, like, hey,
I'm a college athlete. There's videogames with college athletes, you know,
maybe not in name, but indepiction. And why am I not
getting paid for this? This thiskind of led to a series of events
where the last you know, fordorks like me who play the NCAA football
(15:20):
game, the last one to comeout was in twenty fourteen, and now
it looks like we're getting a newone. At college sports. As I
well know as someone who just broadcasts, it is a very complicated landscape as
far as as you know, playersgetting anil deals and amateurism and everything else
that nowadays it looks like players thatare in this game are gonna get paid,
(15:41):
but maybe not a whole lot.I mean, what what do we
see happening when this game comes out? A schedule for this year, looks
like it's going to come out nextyear. Yeah, so it looks like
EA, and nothing's definitive, butfrom what we know, it looks like
it will pay players five hundred dollarsto be in the game, a flat
rate, non negotiable, everyone getsthe same and EA is doing that probably
(16:03):
for a variety of reasons. Oneis that it's easy, right, It's
easy just to have a set rate, I mean, rather than negotiating individual
player contracts to be in a game. And this is in part because there's
no union, there's no players association, that if this were players Association there
maybe there could be some different levelsof pay, but that doesn't exist.
So ANYA doesn't want to individually negotiatewith thousands of players. So from EA's
(16:27):
perspective, it makes sense, andEA would have been making games years ago.
It's the NC double A, asyou alluded to, doesn't allow or
didn't allow players to get money fortheir name, image and likeness. Though
EA had a choice and negotiated withplayers that wouldn't get the IP the NC
Double A and colleges, right,so it had to make a choice.
So now they get both and they'reoffering five hundred dollars right, some players
(16:51):
are likely not going to take itnow, I don't know how many.
This is an interesting play about likewhat what is it worth to be in
a game? Most players are prettyanonymous, right, I mean, let's
face it, most college players arenot well known. They're they're kind of
interchangeable. There are some stars andmaybe they should get paid more than five
hundred, but that's not that's nothow it's going to work. And you
(17:14):
know you mentioned O so ED andI did write Court Justice and ED had
a settlement with Electronic Arts where playersgot paid about on average twelve hundred thirteen
hundred dollars for past games. Someof them got as much as seven thousand,
but most of them got a lotless. And you know, I
don't know what the monetary what theright number is. Maybe five hundred's too
(17:36):
low. But for I mean,I think there are a lot of players
that would take nothing, to behonest with you, to say, I'm
in a video game, right right? So yeah, like like you said,
like, if you're the backup tackleat ball State, five hundred bucks
in your likeness in the game,you know, it's kind of cool,
right, It's like, hey,look at this, you know what I
mean. But if you're if you'relike the middle linebacker for Georgia, you
could probably you know, you probablyhit for a lick on this. Y're
(17:59):
a little more than you deserve.But yeah, it's a do you ever
see a scenario? And gosh,who knows what's going to happen with with
college sports over the next five toten years. I don't. I really
don't envy Charlie Baker taken over theNC DOUBLEA with with the landscape. Maybe
I do envy them, yeah,looking at my bank stat But do you
see a scenario where there would besome sort of athletes union with NCAA athletes.
(18:22):
Northwestern football tried this a couple ofyears back and it kind of got
squashed. Do you see a scenariowhere this might happen. Yeah, I
do. So there are different waysthat could happen. There's currently out West
University of Southern California is involved ina matter befofre the NLRB where there's a
advocacy group for college players saying withtheir employees, and that's gonna there'll be
(18:45):
a hearing in November about that.Now that that doesn't mean there'll be employees
in November by any means, becauseit will then go to federal court and
then it could be appealed. Sowe're talking probably several steps, but that's
one route. And if they aredeemed employees, it would mean that their
employees not only of USC, butthey're joint employees of the PAC twelve and
(19:07):
also the nc double A. Thatbecomes a point because under the law,
so the National Labor Relations Act isthis federal law that governs basically private employer,
So all these private colleges, butas we know in college sports,
a lot of the big big programsor public universities. Right, they're governed
by state law. But here's thething. If you have a player at
Alabama who maybe under Alabama law campbeing an employee of Alabama University of Alabama,
(19:32):
he might be an employee of theNC double A under the scenario because
they're a joint employer. So jointemployer is like like a franchise, franchise
or right, you work out aMcDonald's, are you also a joint employee
of McDonald's corporation? That kind ofthing. So that's one route. Another
route, which wouldn't lead to unionizationbut would lead to employment recognition, is
(19:55):
a case in Pennsylvania. So thereare college players suing saying, we why
is it that our classmates who arework study who go work at the games
we're playing, and why are theypaid? And we're not right, liberally,
you have classmates that are getting paidto bring people to seats, to
take the tickets when they go intothe stadium. They're paid. And some
(20:17):
of them are on scholarship too.It isn't like the scholarship explains it all
the way. Some of them haveacademic scholarships, So why are they in
that case is before the Third Circuitand Justin there was a hearing in February
and there were three judges. Onewas appointed by President Clinton, won by
President Obama, won by President Trump. Very different ideologist, right, yeah,
liberal, conservative, centrists whatever.They were so critical the NC double
(20:44):
A. Yeah, that's a badsign for the NC double A. Right,
when you have conservative and liberal judgesall saying what you're what you're selling
us, doesn't make sense. Iwould be worried I from the NC double
A. Yeah. The NCAA gotto clock Clay in the Supreme Court a
few years back too, So it'sit's a complicated situation and I don't think
it's gonna get any less complicated overthe next few years. So Michael mccamn
will be leading on you for yourexpertise, and I appreciate you joining us
(21:07):
on the show. Find him atMcCann sports Law on Twitter. Check out
the stuff on Sport of Code.If you go to U and NH,
take this lat classes because they're they'rea very informational and informative. Mike's thanks
so much for being on the programtoday. Thanks for having Justin. Have
you going kind enough to join ustoday on overtime, old friend of ours.
(21:29):
He's a contributor to CBS News,also as an article in the Roots
dot com this weekend, the CEOand everything else you can imagine for blueprint
strategies. I'll see the one andonly Antoine c Right. How you doing,
Antoine? Well, may man,it's good to be back with you
justin and you're extended and growing audience. But most important, it's good to
(21:49):
be back in one of the coldeststates I've ever visited. Well, you
are coming to us from Minnesota,which I think is one of the few
states not right now in the winter. Can can take the mantle from New
Hampshire is being cold? They havelike underground tunnels and whatnot, right,
so you don't have to be outside. Well, notice, coldest state I
(22:10):
haven't visited in the winter because I'msmart enough to know you don't come here
and finish. That makes Amy Clover'sfamous snow visitation. I would say,
campaign in the snow? Will youdid you skip that one? Or are
you at that? I certainly skipthat one, man, Just in.
(22:33):
My bones are not made for thatkind of weather. You know. My
southern bones are adjustable to only certainclimates, the cold weather. Ain't want
to listen. I'm born and raisedhere and I'll tell you what. Maybe
my ancestors came from the southern partof Scotland because I'm not built for this
stuff either. I tell you what, It's a different cut of the meat,
(22:55):
as they say down the south.Well, as you can imagine that
Antoine has been is he as aDemocratic stragistant operative as we're in full swing
here for the twenty twenty four primary, even though it's mid twenty twenty three
and the leader in the Republican pollsis Donald Trump. But he's also leader
in number of indictments. He hastwo under his belt, the latest one
(23:17):
being the most serious for the mishandlinga classified documents. It does it has
not seemed to slow him down.But this is kind of historical, Antoine.
I'm a former president running for president, do you know, doing crimes
everywhere and now being held to account. But of course, if you listen
to what he has to say,this is all the big witch on I'm
gonna I'm gonna guess you disagree alittle bit. Well, a couple of
(23:38):
things that twice impeach, twice indictedformer president still has a grip block and
a tight grip block on Republican primaryvoters. And I remind everyone justin that
you cannot be president of the UnitedStates without being president of the Republican Party.
(24:00):
You can't be president of the UnitedStates without being president of the Democratic
Party. That was Joe Biden's firststep. What it tells me is that
there is a group of people inthis country who are chemically make up the
Republican Party who no matter what happensto Donald J. Trump, the former
president, they are going to stickby them. That's why you see these
(24:22):
Republican candidates who names are not DonaldTrump, who try to run away from
Trump but embrace Trump is m Nowyou're going to ask me what the hell
is trump ISNM, Well, Iwould just share with you it's anything right
wing extreme that can be couched upas some sort of agenda, whether it's
policy, personality or political that isalways anti whatever the Democrats have to sing.
(24:48):
Now in most cases I think iswild and crazy as hell, because
there's not a constituency in this countrywho has not benefited from the Biden,
Harris and Democrats the agenda. Butif you let the Republicans tell the story.
Those who embrace white supremacy and thosewho embrace white nationalism, those who
think they're good people on both sides, those who think Mexicans are rapists and
(25:11):
thugs, those who, you know, all the things that come along with
Trump, somehow another they were toput all that aside and somehow embrace the
phone president. It baffles the hellout of me. And here's a challenge
with every other candidate not named DonaldTrump and the Republican primary preference primary.
The challenge is unlike the Democratic primary, where we have win place a show
(25:33):
kind of like horse stadding, it'swin a tank, all right. So
there is no second place in theRepublican primary. So all this talk about
the santast place in second and allthese other people's second heard, it really
doesn't matter because it's going to takeall in every single state when it comes
to the Republican primary. And notto mention like, let's say there's a
(25:56):
scenario where Donald Trump, you know, loses a close one to Ronda said
this or one of the other candidates. As far as delegates go, this
is not a person who if ifif passes prologue, is just gonna say,
oh I guess I lost. I'mgonna let this go. I mean,
it's gonna be it's gonna be adog fight into the convention and perhaps
beyond, and who who knows whatelse happens. Republicans, by embracing this
(26:19):
type of rhetoric, you know,kind of quietly in the last thirty years,
but now more loudly over the lasteight or so, have really painted
themselves into a corner, are theynot? They have? And the scary
part about it is that we've seenwhat happens when Trump loses. We've seen
the insurrection January six. We sawwhere you have now a large group of
(26:41):
people who believe that the election wasrigged and stolen because he did not win.
You had this idea that because hedid not win, there's been laws
implement it around the country to suppressand suffocate people's votes, and somehow another
the one thing that all of ushave always agreed, whether black, white,
(27:02):
Democrats, Republicans, that the integrityof our elections are sealed and that
when our vote is task is counted. That's no longer the case in this
country because only because Donald Trump loss. We've seen Republican candids loose before,
but they all bowed out gracefully.Now because of Trump is them and led
by Trump, that's no longer thecase. So every election is now giving
(27:26):
people a scratch your head kind ofmoment like is this true? Is it
valid? Is it not? Doesmy vote real account? That's the scared
part. And then the thing thatwe've seen more and more justined in our
elections is what I call misinformation,disinformation outside of the fence. Whether it'
from Russia, whether it's China,whether it's Iran, whether it's North Korea,
all these people who are playing intoour elections, all those factors will
(27:48):
go into whatever the results of theRepublican primary is. And then the other
piece Republicans may have the rest ofwhere if somehow Trump does not men is
whether or not he embraces the nomineeand other than not hit, the Trump
army will wrap their arms around whoeverthe nominee is. Because I live with
PTSD every day, political PTSD everyday. From twenty to sixteen, where
(28:10):
we had Hillary Clinton, the mostqualified person to ever run for office,
win our nomination process, running againstthe most unqualified person that ever runs the
office. He had a lot ofpeople who were not for Hillary in the
primer, who did not vote forher in the general election to vote a
third party, and as a result, the world got Donald Trump as the
(28:30):
leader of the free world, presidentof the United States. We're talking to
Antoine c Right, CBS News contributor. He's the CEO of Blueprint Strategies LLLC.
So not that you or I wouldeverhe wants to give advice to the
growing field of Republican candidates, becausethat's not really how I roll, and
that's not really how you roll.Butt. Let's let's give a hypothetically here.
(28:51):
Put on your consultant cap, youryour advisory cap for a moment.
What would you say to the restof this field who you know, you
can't become president until you win inthe domination. You can't win the nomination
till you defeat Donald Trump. Whatwould you say to the folks as an
advisor about how to go about doingthat, because it doesn't seem like they're
doing what needs to be done atthis point. I would say the tackle
(29:12):
of the challenges that really exist inthis country. The one thing voters do
not want is that we hear alot of noise, but they want lyrics,
and we don't always hear lyrics fromthe Republican Party. We just hear
the same noise, right wing racism, bigger hate extremism, just say no
to everything, but no real policyagenda. While we know most voters in
(29:33):
the Republican Party or emotional voters,but there are some who are looking for
an alternative, They're looking for apolicy agenda, and they're looking for in
alternatives. I would say provide yourselfas or lead as an alternative to Trump
isn't And yes, that may notget your short term victory, but it'll
get you long term success because therewill be a day in which the country
(29:56):
and the party will move on fromdown Trump. I don't know when that
is so, and I don't knowwhat that looks like, but there will
be a pivot, and so youwant to be a position to be able
to, I think, suck upthe energy from the pivot. And right
now you can't find a candidate runningwho has a different policy agenda from Trump,
and only very few of them whowilling to take Trump on. And
(30:17):
I think that is a long termthing because even if Trump does not win
the presidency this time around, therewill be life after him, and so
you got to get a paid fortwenty twenty eight and years to come.
And I think the refurbishing or therebranding of the Republican Party starts with all
these people who are challenging him inthis nomination process. Yeah, it's interesting
(30:37):
because they kind of went through theRepublican Party. That's something after the twenty
twelve election, they had the postmortem report or whatever they called it,
where they said, we have toyou know, we have to reach out
to people of color and women,and we have to become a broader based
party. And then Trump ran forpresident and we're like, yeah about that,
We're not gonna pay much attention tothat. So it's almost as though
(31:02):
you have to look to the pastto see to the future if you're in
the Republican Party. But it makesit difficult when Trump sucks up all the
oxygen in the room. Well,the challenges, you know, people say
one thing and they do dude toanother they do another. And if you
look at the policy agenda of everyRepublican candidate who is running for the nomination,
(31:23):
should be told is why they maysay they want to embrace people of
color and women all that kind ofstuff. Nobody can speak to what they
mean when they say that, andso there's no there's no bike to back
up their bark on that on thatfront, particular from a policy perspective.
It just just as a as astudent of the game, so to speak,
(31:45):
you're more expert in this than Iam. Have you ever seen or
have you ever read of or everhas studied any political party or you know,
worldwide nationwide whatever? Where? Uhthe the you know, the Trumps
up, so to speak. It'sthe Kennedy itself is really what the movement
is all about. That and youcan't really you know, you did a
(32:05):
pretty good job I think of definingwhat Trump is them is, but it's
not even an orthodoxy. It's justlike we like this guy as a celebrity.
We ever have you ever seen anythinglike this in politics anywhere? Yeah,
I mean, you know, thereare a lot of people I want
to get that. I want toget this right. There are a lot
of people who compare the activities inthis movement Trump has created to Hitlin.
I'm just saying that that is fact. There are people who have made those
(32:29):
observations. I think that America isstill a very young country. We're still
figuring out who we want to bewhen we grow up. And so,
in fact, I think it wasRoosevelt or even Franklin who called an American
experiment. And the reality is,because we're in the experiment, it may
be our children or our grand childrenthat determine whether we work or not.
(32:52):
So other people call this this firstrough draft history, and I think that
compared to the rest of the wherewe're still younger, we're still figuring out.
So there were be movements, andthere will be moments of that come
along. Whether it's Trump, whetherit's Obama, whether it's whoever it is,
there will be movements that will challengeus and in some cases cause us
to overeat. Trump causes overeat,in some cases cause the tectonic place to
(33:15):
shift in this country. That wasBarack Obama. And so because of that,
I think we won't see the lastof this kind of movement. I
can't describe what it is, butwhat I do know is Trump is tapped
into a group of people and themovement of folks who've been hibernating for a
very long time. Now they seedaylight, they see someone, and they
(33:35):
have someone who actually embraces what theythink and what they feel. And now
they're unapologetic about making that known.Whether these keyboard thuds, whether these white
supremacists who march and who shoot upgrocery stores and shoot up churches and do
all this stuff. These people feellike they have a voice. They march
on the capitol, they feel likethey have someone who embrace what they've been
(33:59):
thinking and feeling for a very longtime. And that's a scary part because
some of those people as a lawyers, doctors, engineers, teachers, business
owners and so forth. And wedon't know. My mother always says,
it's good. The devil you don'tknow is the one you don't have to
work about. It's a devil youdo not know is the one you have
to worry. The devils that wedo know about those who fall into this
movement are the ones that I worryabout. And it's one thing. If
(34:21):
you think that Trump is good onpolicy, but anybody who supports him can
no can can never tell me whythey like him from a politic perspective or
what about him do they embrace froma politic perspective. None of his voters
who support him can can articulate whatthey is. The only thing they can
say is we're anti Joe Biden,We're anti commel ass, were anti Hillary
(34:43):
Clinton, we're anti Baracko, we'reanti Democratic Party. And not only that,
I've thought the arguments of people thatare used to be friends, but
they are no longer that voted forDonald Trump. Where I've you know,
I've said to them, like,you may not consider yourself a racist,
but if you vote for Donald Trump, what you are saying is racism is
not a deal breaker. And atthe end of the day, that's kind
of the same thing, right,I mean you you you simply embrace racist.
(35:06):
I mean you embrace racism when youcall African countries whole countries. That's
an embracing. That's an embracing racism. When you say stand back and stand
by, knowing as a trigger forthe for the Proud Boards and so forth,
when you say you will give thosefolks a pardon. All the things
that have happened during the Trump presidencyand post presidents that you see when you
(35:28):
go to when you go to dinnerwith the neo Nazi or white supprincis,
that is embracing racism. Whether youwant to agree to it or not,
that's what you're saying that I'm okeywith, and I think that is the
dangerous part. We're talking with.Antoine c Right, the CEO of Blueprint
Strategy LLC, CBS News contributor andprolific author, always has articles coming out
and I wanted to talk to youabout the article you had in The Root
(35:52):
this week about June Teeth. Now, just just a quick little background,
like as a as a white kidgrowing up in New Hampshire, um I,
and as someone who tries to expandhis horizons and learn about all the
different you know, races and culturesin this country and in the world.
Uh, even someone like myself,like I didn't really know what June Teeth
was until about fifteen years ago.And I and you know, that was
(36:15):
as part of my journey. Iwas like, what the hell is this?
And I was like, oh,this is a holiday in Texas and
you know, or maybe not anofficial holiday, but a celebration. Even
someone like my wife until the holidaywas actually declared. She's she's of the
like mind with me. She's like, she was embarrassed she didn't know what
June teeth was, so uh,could you could you you know, tell
the listeners why Juneteenth is such animportant holiday for black folks, and and
(36:38):
and because I think people around herelike, oh, we got a holiday,
that's great. They don't know theydon't know what it is or why
it's so significant and so important.I think that's right. Look, uh,
you know the reason why Juneteenth isso important because in most cases known
as Black people Freedom Day is knownas our emancipation Day. It's it's known
(37:00):
as full freedom fulfillment for black folks. Just to walk you through history,
you know, it's in an AfricanAmerican tradition that we celebrate what we call
watch Night Service on New Year's Eve, and it's a church service that we
have in order to bring into thenew to the new year. Well,
they started Watching Night Service because peoplegathered knowing that Lincoln was going to sign
(37:23):
the Emancipation Proclamation to give black folksto freedom. So it was a pre
celebration to January of that year tothe signing of that, and so they
called it watch Night. They're watchingthe night for midnight to hear black people
will be free. Well, thereason Juneteenth came about it was because it
was two years later, justin beforethat word made it to Texas that black
(37:50):
folks were finally free two years.So there were people living in Bondis for
two years who did not know theemancipation was signed. So I always count
Juneteenth is a lack of communication,right because I travel from one side of
the country to another, and sowhen the word did travel, there was
a general who gave the notice thatblack folks are free two thousand plus soldiers,
(38:15):
and the word travel, we getthe We get the name June Teeth
because it happened on June seventeenth ofthat year, two years after the mental
place and practical bastion that officially gaveblack folks their freedom. Now here's why
it's so important to not couch JuneTeeth as just a black holiday is because
when black folks are free, thatmean America's free. And that's why we
(38:37):
can't couch just as just a holidayto celebrate black folks. This should be
celebrated by all folks because that meansevery American in this country has had their
freedom papers. We officially have theirpapers. And the reason I wrote that
article justin to give people a history, and the reason why I titled that
Tun Teeth should not be just aBlack Holiday should be an American holiday,
(38:59):
because that's a real oversized effort inthis country to white wat's history, to
ban books and to minimize the contributionto the black folks. And I would
die. I would go to mygrave and die before I let anybody minimize
the contributions that my parents and grandparentsand people who look like me to make
to this country, because we haven'tdone so much for this country to help
(39:21):
groom and mold and shape this country. And I'll be damned about white supremacists,
white nationalists, or even those whosupport those movements and efforts like Raw
Descentis and others ban out history,because we should be expanding history. You
cannot have American history without Black history, and black history is American history.
Yeah, it's it's amazing, youknow, it's we've seen, like you
(39:42):
said, I moving to this countryto try to erase uh, you know,
black history. It's especially in Florida, the Rn descentis. But this
is something that just wasn't taught tome as a as a kid growing up
in New Hampshire. You know,if it's a lily white state, less
so now then it used to be. But still for the most part,
you know, majority white, andI think it's so important to learn the
history behind things like this. Andlike you said, the events Pation Proclamation
(40:05):
was in eighteen sixty three. Itwasn't until June of eighteen sixty five.
The Civil War been over for twomonths, but the Union hadn't recaptured you
know, parts of Texas, andthis was the last place really that people
were still enslaved. And so it'sit's it's really a fascinating you know,
to learn the history of this holiday, and it's important to celebrated, I
(40:25):
think. And that's the thing is, well, we now have a federal
holiday, and that only happened becauseblack people came out to vote in twenty
in the twenty twenty election and electedJoe Biden Kamala Harris. That's the only
reason we have this holiday. We'vehad presidents and leaders up until that,
up until twenty twenty, who nevereven thought about making Juneteenth alabat. And
(40:47):
I think it's a pure demonstration thatyou know, your vote matters and it
has some weight and it can makea difference because it's only been policy that
has changed this country, not marching, not politics alone, but it's been
policy that moved the needle towards progress, and in every election is our chance
to renew our freedom card. Andthat's what I believe to be the most
(41:09):
powerful thing we have in a democraticsociety is our right to vote and our
right to participate. That's why Iworry like hair of these oversized efforts to
suppress and suffocate our votes and toban history. We need to be expanding
the history, not just for June. People need to know about the Tulsa
masker, They need to know aboutthe Will Wilmington masker, they need to
(41:29):
know about what happened in Charleston.Every day history is being recreated and we
need to tell our children and ourgrandchildren about that. Well, Entine c
right, It's not your job toedge kids, but I appreciate you trying
to do so. And I appreciateyou coming on the show. You're everywhere
and everywhere I know you're like,you're in one city today and another tomorrow.
We'll look for you on CBS News, and we'll look for you on
(41:50):
the and the Root worlds. Canwe find your writings the Messenger right from
the Messenger now of course to healbeet dot com. So I'm in a
couple of different places, the mostimportant to Jin. I appreciate the opportunity
I have to engage with you.You're a white man from New Hampshire.
I'm a black man from rural SouthCarolina. It's a pure demonstration of how
(42:15):
far we've come in this country,but also a pure demonstration how far we
have to go because the fact thatyou don't know about Juneteenth, the fact
that a lot of people who evenlook like me have not experienced what June
teen really means. It means thatwe've made progress, but there's no such
thing as a finish line in thiscountry. All Right, my man,
I appreciate it. Let's keep theconversation go. We'll talk again soon.
(42:37):
Thank you. Justin walking back toovertime, were running out of the show
that it's just about gonna do itfor this week by thanks to Michael McKinnon,
you and Age Law and sported comfortalking about little golf in the fay
Way us something. I'm taking allthis on Friday. It's been way too
easy. I want to see paintin that tournament. I want to see
(43:00):
plus two beat a winning score.Not there's eight under for one round.
Stuff. But thanks to Michael Kenfor talking about that. Also to Antoine
see right talking about Trump, alsotalking about Juneteenth, why that's important to
everybody, not just black folks.And now thanks to you for listening in.
Remember if you missed any of theshow, you can subscribe to the
podcast, check it out, giveus a five star review, and all
that other stuff, and we willsee you next week. Until then,
(43:22):
don't forget hippies are bad people andpretending to be good. Pumps are good
people pretending to be bad. Peaceof love will see you. Let it
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