June 24, 2023 • 43 mins
This Week on OVERTIME -
Dante Scala of UNH stops by to discuss exactly what all the GOP candidates for President are thinking, and where American politics stands in terms of historical context, and more!
Then Lance Legere of NHSportspage.com , and certified Green Teamer pops in for an analysis of the Celtics trade that sent Marcus Smart to Memphis
Dante Scala of UNH stops by to discuss exactly what all the GOP candidates for President are thinking, and where American politics stands in terms of historical context, and more!
Then Lance Legere of NHSportspage.com , and certified Green Teamer pops in for an analysis of the Celtics trade that sent Marcus Smart to Memphis
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome to All for Time. It'sthe only radio show ever to win a
World Series MVP. It took placein nineteen eighty nine. Do you know
what, You can't disprove that ithappened because you don't know who the nineteen
eighty nine World Series MVP was.So take that. I'm your host,
Jina Kisacking. Today in the program, we talked to Dante Scala, per,
professor of political science at the Universityof New Hampshire. Got a whole
(00:31):
lot of questions ranging from the currentto the historical with Dante. And it's
gonna take two seconds, because that'show long I talked to Dante for because
he's an interesting dude. Dan asmart dude with good answers to my excellent
questions. Also talk to Lancella's yearcertified green teamer about the tragedy known as
Marcus Smart getting traded away from theBoston Celtics. You can imagine how I
(00:52):
feel about that. The interviews takeup so much time. I don't have
time to jibber jabber with you.So we're gonna take a break, come
right back with Dante Scala that iscoming up next here and overtime. Keep
it here kind enough to join mehere on overtime is the one and only
(01:15):
Dante Scale, Professor of Political Scienceat the University of New Hampshire. Dante
Wiza, Hello, Justin, Howare you good? Good? Glad you
can join us? So just afull disclosure. We're recording this on Thursday,
so who knows if we'll have anotherpresidential candidate by the time this airs
on Saturday morning, But just thismorning another candidate, Will hearn is then
(01:36):
a Baker's dozen is at fourteen.I'm not sure, but there are a
lot of Republican candidates from president,which is surprising when you have a former
president who is leading the polls bya good amount in Donald Trump and seems
to be the runaway favorite to winthe domination. I can top that justin
because there are rumors that in aNew York Times story even that there could
(01:57):
be not three but four Florida thenin the primary field because Rick Scott,
us Senator supposedly is thinking about throwinghis hat in the ring stopping But is
that too much of a good thing? I can't even imagine or Florida then,
(02:20):
I think you and I have differentdefinitions of a good thing. Why
so that when I asked you tocome to the show and you were kind
enough to do so. One ofthe topics was and the a polysy professor
in North Carolina who have hand inthe show before. Edgard Miller, who
might see on online as Gin andTacos, asked this question, what are
(02:43):
all these people doing? U Itseems you know, and you know,
we in the media have to kindof like do this kabuki theater where it's
like, oh, yeah, maybethis person will do well, maybe de
Santa. We all kind of know. It's like twenty twelve when everybody knew
Romney would eventually win the nomination.We all kind of know it's gonna be
Trump. We're just waiting for himto get the most delicates. What are
all the rest of these people doing? What do you think their endgame is?
(03:06):
I mean there are I mean,there is some subset who actually believe
that they could be the nominee ofthe Republican Party, right. I mean,
one thing I always keep them oudwith politicians. What I tell my
students is what defines them more thananything else is their ambition. And their
(03:27):
ambition is most of the time rational. I mean, they're not irrationally ambitious,
but they sometimes I think their ambitionleads their reason rather than vice versa.
So but that said, though,I think some of them are auditioning
(03:50):
for a future role. I thinkthat's one thing to keep in mind.
Like take Nicky Haley, Tim Scott, these are people who would run in
you know, one Styald Trump isfinished running whatever that is, maybe twenty
twenty eight or even twenty thirty two. But these are people who are perhaps
(04:12):
thinking long term. It takes along time to build name id as a
politician when you're not named Donald Trumpand you haven't had your own television show
and all that sort of thing.If you're just a normal politician, it
takes a while to build national nameid. So sometimes candidates see their ambitions
(04:34):
unfolding, perhaps over the course ofa decade, more than one presidential cycle.
So you're trying to make a goodfirst impression and then maybe later on
in your career, you know,you can go back to your day job
for now and then run again inthe future. And I think that's especially
(04:55):
true for someone like Tim Scott overlapping. That is, you know, there
are candidates who are trying to makea good impression right now, because they
can see themselves being on the ticket. Right someone has to be Donald Trump's
number two. And so you thinkabout someone like Tim Scott in particular,
(05:21):
what's his defining characteristic? Everyone thinksTim Scott is a nice guy. Even
some Democrats think Tim Scott is anice guy. And he's well liked by
people on both sides of the RepublicanParty. And by that I mean people
who love Donald Trump, and evenpeople who dislike Donald Trump liked Tim Scott.
(05:45):
So someone like that might be thinking, Hey, if I'm out in
the field, if I make agood impression, maybe I'll get on the
ticket, which means that I'll bein the driver's seat. Let's say Donald
Trump is elected in twenty twenty four, if I'm Tim Scott, I could
be the next nominee in twenty twentyeight. Sure, there's a few things
(06:09):
off that, so e there's ifyou look at the last vice president of
Donald Trump, they had a cozyrelationship right up into the point where Donald
Trump's supporters wanted to hang him,and Donald Trump didn't really do a whole
lot to dissuade that notion. Otherthan that Mike Penn's kind of like he
really carried a ton of water forDonald Trump. You can make the argument,
(06:31):
I think credibly so that Donald Trumpisn't elected without the evangelicals, that
Mike Pence kind of gave a permissionstructure too, to vote for a guy
who's had you know, two divorces, tons of affairs, you know,
used to go on Howard Stern andrate women's bodies, all that sort of
stuff. You know, that guydid everything he needed to do and at
the end was quite credibly nearly lynchedfor not doing one thing right. So
(06:56):
I don't I don't know why you'dwant to be Unald Trump's vice president,
and that, setting aside all theother things Donald Trump is said about everybody
that's worked for him in his cabinetor in business or anything else. Secondly,
as you kind of alluded to,there's no guarantee if Donald Trump loses
in twenty twenty four, that he'snot going to run in twenty twenty eight.
Like we could be doing this foranother like or eight twelve years.
(07:20):
Right, It's not I mean,it's not impossible. I mean the you
know, at some point, justlike with Joe Biden, you know,
the his age is going to countagainst him, right, Mother and nasure
is going to teach him eventually.Yeah, with Donald Trump, right,
what's that? Mother and nature willeventually impeach him, right, right,
(07:43):
and teaches all of us sooner orlater. Right. So um, So
there's that, and then there's youknow, I mean there's the again.
Let me refer back to the ambitionpart. Yeah, you know, even
even seeing what happened to Mike Pencemight not dissuade another politician who will say
to himself or herself, right,that did happen. But it'll turn out
(08:05):
differently for me if I'm you know, Donald Trump will be retiring if he
wins a second term in office,and I'll be set up to be the
next nominee of the party. Again, it's it's a sign of the times
that despite all these points you make, and they're good ones, Donald Trump
(08:26):
is the key these days to advancementin the Republican Party. I mean,
if you're a member of the ifyou're a Republican member of the House of
Representatives, you are always thinking aboutwhat Trump voters in your district think,
because that's the key to your reelectionevery two years. Well, let me
(08:48):
throw this at you as well,because and there's another thing I wanted to
get you too, But there's noguarantee. Let's say Donald Trump wins election
to the residency in twenty twenty four, and let's further kind of like game
this out and say the Republicans retainedthe House, they also win the majority
in the Senate. Because it's fiftyfifty right now, there's no guarantee that
(09:11):
Donald Trump, given his past actionsand passed his prologue. I think that
he won't try to do something wherehe's able to retain the presidency beyond what
we would expect in twenty twenty eight. Right, So if you're running with
the ambition of being Donald Trump's vicepresident, now that's you know, that's
above and beyond what the Constitution says, of course, But I think we
(09:33):
live in a world right now wherewe kind of have to put these variables
into play. Who's to say DonaldTrump isn't going to try to do something
where he's president passed what the constitutionmandates he's allowed to be president for.
Do you think the factors into anyof this or no. I mean,
for a politician thinking about being Trump'snumber two, I think they probably see
(09:58):
that as far fetched, paired tobeing seated at Trump's right hand for four
years, which would give that persona lot of legitimacy, a lot of
popularity in the party that Donald Trumpsremade. So I think you probably you
know, again, politicians are alwaystaking risks, and that's you know what
(10:24):
Trump's behavior is obviously one of them. But again, you know, Mike
Pence was aware of a lot ofthese things, right, I mean,
he wasn't unaware of Trump's character.Maybe he couldn't see down the road to
what would happen in January of twentyone, but right right, I mean
he and he did it. Anyway, let me throw one more reason why
(10:46):
people get into the race. Sure, and I think they get into the
race for, you know, asJohn McCain would say, a cause larger
than themselves, like they wanted totry to change the course of their party,
like someone like Chris Christie is tryingto somehow reverse the course of the
(11:07):
party and get it back on theright track. Or they have a particular
cause or issue that they're trying tohighlight in the party. You know,
it could be a politicians who who'sat a stage of his career where you
know, they're they look, they'relooking, they're seeing the end of the
line, like they're not they're notgoing any further. So, you know,
(11:30):
some older guys buy a Maserati ora Ferrari. Others decide, hey,
let me let me run for president, you know, like a Lindsay
Grant. Right, get out there, You get on a vendor for a
couple of months, and then yougo back to what you were doing.
Are you Are you saying running forpresident is now like a midlife crisis type
(11:52):
of deal because I could buy intothat, yes, and it's a late
midlife crisis. I mean, youget these guys who run like you know
what you're Joe Lieberman's let's say,and so forth. You're, you know,
your hope, you've been a senator, You've kind of been there,
done that. That's the last rungof the ladder. So, you know,
(12:13):
especially because sometimes there's no penalty forrunning, even among your constituents.
I mean sometimes there is. Sometimesthere's not back home, but you know
why not? Sure? So letme ask you this. This is kind
of an off the beaten path question, but oh maybe not as a as
a polycyp professor, so I askedyou, what happens if Donald Trump won't
(12:37):
leave the presidency in twenty he winshe won't leave in twenty twenty eight,
or I guess it'd be January oftwenty twenty nine. Are these things as
a polysyp professor that you now haveto like factor into when you, you
know, teach class, when you'relike, do you have to like do
you have to reference like, youknow, like fascist regimes or you know,
(12:58):
post democratic regimes or that's A andB. Did you ever think that
would be the case in the UnitedStates where things kind of have run on
track? Really since I guess thebusiness plot against FDR in the thirties,
you know, did you ever expectthat to happen in the United States?
(13:20):
Nowaday, Well, let me startwith the second question. First, you
know, I imagine I guess theshort answers no, although looking back,
I probably should have known better becauseI started teaching political science in the late
nineties. So we're kind of comingoff of the Clinton impeachment, right,
(13:41):
And in some ways you can goback looking back on the nineties, you
can see the roots of what we'reexperiencing now. Sure, Right, and
so even though I mean, I'dbe a lot smarter if I'd been able
to see it kind of coming backin the nineteen nine nineties. But you
think about what's happened over the pastquarter century. It's been this tumultuous time.
(14:05):
Right, we had okay, wehad the Clinton impeachment in the nineties,
then we get we get nine toeleven, and then we get the
financial meltdown, right, And there'sbeen a lot of shocks to the system
that have occurred in the last quartercentury. And so again, you know,
(14:26):
hindsights twenty twenty. But you know, you can look back and say,
well, there were changes of foot, big things happening, and maybe
just like the shock waves have occurredand you know, created this really weird
situation where nowadays I always have tocheck myself and say, Okay, well
(14:52):
this is just weird, you know, like Robert F. Kenny Junior running
for president, you know, backin the day. And I found myself
doing it just several months ago,just being very dismissive. But but I
have to check myself and say,look, you have to, Dante,
you have to you have to disconnectyour rational professor's mind from your from what
(15:18):
comes out of your mouth as apundit, because you have to consider all
sorts of weirdness. And so Iget grief from my colleagues now who studied
democracies in other countries, because asfar as political science goes, for a
long time, you know, Americanpeople who cited American politics were basically on
(15:41):
this island of stability, right,and we would look at democracies in other
countries and say, well, instability, that's for them. But here in
the United States it's the same old, same old. Right, Now the
tables are turned, and now Ihave colleagues and who studied democracies and other
country is saying, aha, Dante, now you can learn from us,
(16:03):
right, because the US is showingall the signs of democratic fragility and instability.
Yeah, and so it's it's sothe tables have been turned in that
regard. Part two with Dante Scalais coming up next and overtime keep it
here. We're talking to Dante bestfor political science at the University of New
(16:33):
Hampshire. Uh So I'm kind ofa history JRK. For as dumb as
I am. Uh, people haveaccused me of being the either the dumbest
smart guy they know, or thesmartest dumb guy they know. I'm really
a student of history, but notto the extent that you are. Uh,
Is there is there a comp Uh? Is there a comp to what
the United States is going through rightnow? Either historically or more recently.
(16:56):
There wouldn't be like a like aCentral American country that's you know, their
democracy overthrown or what would you sayis the closest cont what the US is
experiencing. Well, let me letme stick to my own backyard and try
to think of an historical era inAmerican politics, And the one I go
to with my students is the endof the nineteenth century, okay, in
(17:21):
which then is now we had anawful lot of political polarization and a lot
of partisan loyalty, in which youhad a series of very close elections then
is now, and you had alot of people who were basically lining up
(17:42):
on either one side or the otherand sticking to their partisan loyalties year in,
year out, election in, electionout. And we see that these
days right with. You know howmuch people's partisan identity is really the sum
(18:04):
total of their identities period. Youknow, it takes in race, it
takes in whether they go to churchor not. So it's not just you
know, for a lot of peoplenow your identity as a Democrat or Republican
is really wrapped up in a lotof other aspects of your life, and
(18:26):
so you're much less likely to havea take it or leave it attitude toward
your political party, where in otherwords, like I could switch and vote
for the other party if I'm unhappywith how my current party is performing.
(18:47):
You know, nowadays it's much morelike, you know that the identity you
have toward your you know, yourfootball team, you know their ancestral loyalties.
You know, did Brady deflate theball? Right? I mean,
you know you ask people outside NewEngland? Right yeah, right, right
there you go. So I kindof think about that, you know,
(19:08):
as far as an historical era,we have a lot in common with that.
And and also I tell my students, you know, you know,
only sixty years ago, there werepeople who we called liberal Republicans and that
wasn't an insult, that was justa fact. And there were people we
(19:32):
called conservative Democrats. And so itused to be that people's ideology didn't necessarily
line up with their their party idea. But what's changed now is that nowadays
we clearly have a liberal party anda conservative party, so it's a lot
easier for people to sort themselves oneway or the other. But that creates
(19:57):
real so that in some ways that'sgood for democracy because people can decide,
Okay, well here's a party thatIDs with my values, etc. Let
me vote for them. Yeah,you know, just like some people say,
well I like McDonald's burger, soidentify. You know, it's easy
to choose. The problem is whenyou only have two choices, you're kind
(20:21):
of stuck. Like, all right, there'll be a lot of Republicans who
will hold their nose and vote forDonald Trump. Yeah, why what choice
do they have? Right? Arethey going to go vote for Joe Biden?
Right? Whereas if we had severalparties in this country, like a
right center party or AM a partyfor Romney Republicans, right, people could
(20:42):
move a little easier despite their ideology. Yeah. I think part of that
is the winner take all electoral collegesystem we have, which and this is
just me talking, which me seemswildly outdated and past. You know,
it's usefulness, but what do Iknow? Right? No, No,
(21:03):
A lot of people make that casethat if we had more of a European
style democracy, if we had proportionalrepresentation, right, right, so you
could have people like there are peoplewho would vote for I mean, yeah,
okay, the Green there's a GreenParty in the United States and they
get two percent of the vote.Sure, maybe on a good year,
Libertarians get like one percent, right, But if we had proportional representation in
(21:27):
Congress, there would be enough.There would be ten fifteen percent of a
different what's that enough to make adifference. Right, They would vote for
an environmentally conscious left wing party ifthey could, if they knew that their
vote would count, Sure, exactly. Yeah, So it's it's kind of
(21:51):
a fascinating thing, especially for studentsof history. Dote Schalar with us from
UNH before I let you know,because I've already I hopped on the zoom
late and taken up too much ofyour time. But I ask you about
Gavin Newsom, who, if youdidn't know any better, you'd think was
running for president, you know,offering to you know, going on with
Sean Hannity, offering to debate Ronde Santis. I get campaign style emails
(22:14):
from him, even though I livein New Hampshire, and he's the governor
of California. But he seems tojust be, you know, trying to
be Joe Biden's uh, you know, best surrogant right now, even more
than Kamala Harris, I would say, seemingly seems to be poised for a
twenty twenty eight run for president.Although you would think Kamala Harris would be
the assuming Joe Biden's re election,you think she would be the heir apparent.
(22:37):
But if there's that I talked withChris Galdieria a few weeks ago about
this, if Joe Biden were tosomehow be incapacitated or you know, die,
He's in his eighties, and Idon't think it's unfair to say he
could die before the election. Thisseems like a guy that really wants to
be president the next time there's anopen nomination on the Democratic side. Yeah,
(22:57):
I mean, it's I think it'sreasonable to assume that. Again,
he's an ambitious politician, and what'sthe after you've been governor of California,
you know what's the next run onthe ladder right running for president? And
it's not it's not too early toagain build your name ide looking forward to
(23:22):
twenty twenty eight or beyond, becauseyou know, one way or another,
Biden will be run his last electionin twenty twenty four, will have an
open spot, an open field intwenty twenty eight. And you know you
mentioned Kamala Harris a couple of times. Yeah, typically, right, the
(23:42):
vice president would have the inside track, and that could well be the case
for Kamala in twenty twenty eight.But we know that feel like a lot
of vice presidents has had her troublesbuilding positive name I D while in the
(24:04):
vice presidency, right, and we'veseen that happen to a lot of vice
presidents. If you think back toal Gore in two thousand, Um,
you know, did did Gore benefitfrom being Clinton's VP? Yeah? I
guess eventually, like in terms ofrunning for the Democratic nomination, but it
kind of run away from Clinton's recordthough character Yeah right, right, So
(24:26):
you know, if you're someone likeNewsome or or you know, uh,
Greshen Whitmer in Michigan, you're startingyou're starting to play that game of Okay,
where could I go next? Fromme here? And if you can
be Biden's buddy, right, Biden'ssurrogate, Um, it's worth a try
(24:48):
at this point, especially if youkeep insisting, well, look, I'm
not I'm not threatening Joe Biden here. You know, you make pretty clear
that you're not going to cross himby running against him, but getting your
name out there never hurts. Sure, all right, before we let you
go, Dante. Originally the ChristopSporzingis trade involved Malcolm Brogden. Now it
(25:11):
evolves someone who is third in myheart, behind Cameron mccaysac by Son and
Killy mccazag in no particular order.They're like both number one. I guess
he's number three. So now nowI have mixed feelings. What do you
think of Christop Sportzingis coming to theCeltics. Well, you know what what
we're I mean, I do thinkyou know we we had a lot,
(25:36):
We have a lot of talent atthe guard position. I would rather have
kept Smart than Brogden, given Brogen'sinjury history and Smart, I mean smartest.
This kind of not love hate,but like dislike relationship with Smart in
the sense that I mean he clearlyhas the toughness that I think the Celtics
(26:00):
need and that sometimes seems lacking fromfrom Tatum and Brown. That's certainly true.
But sometimes I get the sense thatSmart would thinks that he should have
the ball with two minutes to go, uh and shooting, which which never
pleased me. Well character, whoelse was out there? I like Porzingis,
(26:22):
but I worry about I mean,we have a lot of it's a
lot of fragility, yes, thecenter position when he takes the time lord
and Porzingis and an increasingly old youknow al for Al Horford's not quite as
old as Joe Biden, but he'sgetting there. He's getting there. Yeah.
Yeah, we don't have a lotof one of what Bamani Jones calls
can't go back now, Marcus Smart, Hell, a lot of can't go
(26:45):
back to us home down and alot of want to and uh yeah now
and now. Yeah, a lotof toughness lost. But just for the
record, I would I would laydown in traffic from Marcus Smarts. So
there's no love hate here. It'sall love on this side of the zoom
call. But don't thanks for doingthis. This was a ton of fun.
I hope we can do it again. Yeah, that's your thing.
You're very welcome. Journeys right nowon overtime is certified Green teamer and also
(27:18):
a media legend for any sports page. Dot Com also missed him at the
Southern New Hampshire games. You heardhere on Huge Radio six ten and also
this past year on Fox Sports ninethirty the one the only Lance Las year.
Lance. I feel like this isa safe therapy space for those of
us in the cult of Marcus Smart. Yeah, Mark, Marcus Smart lifers,
(27:41):
um you know, love and trusters. I think you can call us.
What a turn of events. Thelast twenty four hours have been absolutely
hectic. I've been happy, I'vebeen sad, I've been I don't know,
I have been all over the place. And I'm happy we're here together
to talk about this because it hasbeen a lot. So yeah, So
full disclosure or tables on Thursday.The show airs on Saturday. Of course,
(28:03):
if you're listening to podcast, itdoesn't matter. So there could be
more moves the Celtics make once westop recording this. The draft, of
course, is after we record this. It's Thursday night, so the draft
is happening, and maybe the Celticsmake another couple of moves, So who
knows, But just so, justso you have an awareness of when we're
talking about this. So, MarcusSmart, who's my favorite Celtics since Paul
(28:25):
Pierce. I'll backed up my favoriteCeltics since Isaiah Thomas, who was my
favorite Celtics since Paul Pierce. Soat some point I have to make a
lineage of favorite Celtics. There's agap there where it's the names are kind
of thing. Dido Raja makes anappearance and it's not great for anybody,
but he was traded to the MemphisSchirls. He's part of a three team
trade. The Celtic's got a coupleof first round picks in return, and
(28:47):
also on Christop Sportsini is coming offquietly a really good season for a really
bad Washington Wizards team. So there'ssome good to this trade, but there's
also for those of us who worshipwith the Marcus Smart, there's a lot
of bad. It feels like partof my soul and part of the team
SOULO man a cutout lands, howare you feeling? I am all over
(29:07):
the place I was. Yesterday wasmy birthday, so I was out with
my wife. I was mini golfingand I get a tweet from sham Sharania
says Eastern Conference contender interest in ChrisStops porzingis. I'm like, that is
Brad Stevens one hundred percent. Listento the video it is. I'm all
in. Brogden's in the deal.Terrific trade, Marcus Morris going to Washington,
they get the thirtieth pick. Thisis just a picture perfect move.
(29:32):
And then hours go on. We'rein the final stages. I think,
is what a Celtics For a whileand we get to ten thirty, I'm
like, ah, there's no way, like they're gonna get this done right,
and then woe is tweets. I'mlike, ah, here it is.
Deal has fallen apart, and I'mlike, oh, Chris Stops must
have not agreed to the you know, presumed extension that he's probably gonna get
(29:53):
with the Celtics. He wants thatsecurity going in, gets another chance of
that new TV money that'll be intwo years if you were to sign a
two year extension, which I thinkyou probably will in July. But the
Clippers are the ones that back out, the team that employs Kawhi Leonard who
has hurt every other day, PaulGeorge, who missed a huge chunk of
(30:15):
last season. They are scared ofMalcolm Brogden's medicals. And then it comes
out today that they couldn't get aphysical on him, and that costs us
Marcus Smart, which is just agut wrench. My cousin's a huge Clippers
fan. I said, dude,what the heck? Why would you guys
do that to us? I mean, it's a picture birthkey move. They
need a playmaker. Malcolm Brogen fitsthat role. He's going to start for
(30:37):
the Clippers. Paul George Kawhi,that's a great move for them. And
then you've dumped Marcus Morris's salary.And then we get here that they're the
ones that back out. They can'tget a physical on him. Brockden's injury
sounds a little bit worse than itis. He hasn't gotten surgery yet,
which is just mind boggling after tearingattendant in your shooting elbow. But it
costs Marcus Smart. The deal strikeseleven fifty three. It's still my birthday.
(31:00):
Yes, they get it done.Great birthday present. Details start swindling
out, Oh Tis Jones and thedeal. Oh they must have got brogged
and something, maybe a pick.Marcus Smart is going to Memphis. He's
going to be the starting point guardfor twenty five games while John Brant's out
the grit and grind. I mean, everyone was kind of comparing it to
Tony Allen when he got traded twentynine years old, great defensive career with
(31:21):
the Boston Celtics, goes on toMemphis and he's a legend with the Grizzlies.
And now Marcus Smart's probably gonna fillthat same void, and it hurts
a lot. I get you gettwo first round picks for Marcus Smart,
terrific. I think you're looking atit without the emotions. That's a great
haul you get. Chris stops porzingison a one year deal, two first
round picks twenty five, number twentyfive tonight in a future first from the
(31:42):
Warriors. But man, you justfirst ripped the heart and soul out of
this team. And I am shocked. I absolutely shocked. We're talk with
Lance Lagier, who is perhaps themost prolific member of weird Celtics. Twitter
if you, if you, ifyou follow Lance on Twitter. During game,
he reacts to sometimes every possession,sometimes multiple things that happened within a
(32:06):
possession, so he maybe knows morethan anyone what's going on when it comes
to the Celtics. Uh, yeah, it's I know, they had to
do something because it's you know,they've they've been running it back, uh,
you know for quite a few yearsand compared to most teams, a
high level of success. You know, a number of Eastern Conference file appearances,
(32:27):
won files appearance, you know,two games away from a championship.
Sometimes it can be hard to putthat in perspective, you know, not
you know, most teams don't getto the conference files, but when you
get there that many times with thiscore, it does get a little frustrating.
So I get they had to shakeit up. But my question is,
you know, who is going tobe the one who has a backbone
on this team? It doesn't youknow, Jason Teenam seems to be content
(32:47):
to be, you know, quietleader, leading by example, outstanding player
in my opinion, top five playerin the league. But he's not a
guy who's gonna grab someby someone bythe lapels and you know, shake them
when they need to be chicken oryou know, getting an opponent's face when
that has to happen. Jaylen Brown, he has quarters where it looks like
Michael Jordan he also has quarters wherehe looks like, yeah, you know,
(33:07):
he couldn't start for Saint Ansel.So it's none of those guys seem
to be the guy. Someone's gotto be the guy, right, Who's
gonna be the guy? I mean, I think you saw Al Horford at
times trying to, you know,be that energizer for them last year.
I think the move with porzingis justyou know, not talking about being the
you know, the guy getting everyoneeveryone's face. I think it's great insurance
(33:29):
to have three great quality bigs inHorford probably moves to the bench, maybe
he starts. Besides ports zingis we'llsee. I think, you know,
that guy is someone they might haveto acquire. I think Brad's certainly not
done. I think what we sawfrom Derek White last season, like I
was saying to some people today,I think they're gonna be you know,
there's some fourth quarters where Derek Whitewasn't even playing, which I thought was
(33:50):
absolutely ridiculous, going with you know, Smart and Bragdon some Knights. Brogden
didn't have it, but he's anoffensive threat, and Smart didn't have it,
but he's a defensive threat. Ithink, you know, Derek White
kind of getting the key. Now. I think it's really big. I
think they're really invested in him,which I am fully behind. If I
had to, you know, Iknew they were probably traded to Guard.
If I had to rank it,I was probably going Derek Marcus Brogden.
You know, I wanted Broaden tobe moved. I mean, obviously I
(34:12):
don't want him to be moved,but just with the cap situation, I
thought it was probably going to behim. Marcus was kind of a last
resort, and I thought Derek wasuntouchable. I thought he was terrific last
year, all the all defense.I think he's a guy that's probably gonna
have to step up to him.But I think Brad Stevens with this move
is you know, even if theJay's didn't or didn't sign off on it,
probably saying you guys have to stepup, you guys kind of caused
this. We didn't win a championshipthe last two years. We should have
(34:35):
been there this past season. Losingtwo home games to Miami is inexcusable and
you go down three, Oh youfight back, Derek White. Yeah,
I mean it's just absolutely, youknow, ridiculous. This team was you
know, hard to watch the pastcouple of months, but you know,
they shake it up. You say, hey, if you guys are gonna
be pissed, just you have toplay the right way. And I think
they're those two are gonna be theones that have to step up. But
(34:58):
you know of a gritten, gryndguy gonna, you know, be someone
for this team, It's someone they'reprobably gonna have to acquire. I don't
know if someone, If that someone'son the roster right now, it doesn't
seem like it, but the Jaysare certainly gonna have to step up.
And from an emotional standpoint, Ithink, yeah, it seems like the
Celtics still have a move to make. And whether that's trading Jaylen Brown or
whatever it is, it seems likethey have to. You know, right
(35:19):
now, they got rid of theirbest defender and you know they added Chris
stop sportzingis who you know, tosteal a praise from Bonnie Jones. He's
not big man. He's tall man, you know what I mean. He's
not He's not gonna go down therebank now. He average eight point four
rebounds a game last season, playedsixty five games for the Wizards twenty three
points per game. But also youknow who, to be fair, I
(35:42):
don't watch a whole lot of WashingtonWizards games because they were trash, so
who knows how much of that came, you know, the governage side or
whatever. But also guy that's hadhis own injury issues. They're gonna need
to get some more toughness and somemore defense. What do you think the
most logical moves are to make forthe Celtics. I mean, I think
with acquiring two first round picks,that Warrior's pick top four protective is kind
(36:04):
of intriguing, just with how they'regoing to be this next season, so
that could be a really good pick. I think, you know, putting
Brockton was technically a Clipper for likesix hours, obviously it wasn't official.
I think they still try to movehim. The reports artist injury is really
not looking good. It's going tobe hard to trade him. But if
you attach a first to that,I think that's why they wanted those picks
to maybe you know, get animpact player. I do think you need
(36:27):
another guard. You definitely need abig wing. I think you're good with
the bigs right now. Obviously youhave Rob Porzingis who I think is going
to be just a menace and dribblehandoffs and you know, pick and pop
situations. So I think that's whythey wanted him. But he's just got
to stay healthy, you know.I think another wing to kind of relieve
the Jay's a little bit will certainlybe something of interest. You know,
I've heard Grant Williams his time inBoston is kind of looking like it's done,
(36:52):
just with getting poor Zingis money wiselast year, Yeah, what wasn't
great. Obviously Joe didn't trust himfrom the report that came out that you
know, Jalen and Jason were like, we got to play this guy.
And I think that's why he playedin that Miami series. They were the
ones kind of you know, wishingand you know, kind of hoping he
would play, and they asked forthat and that's what they got. And
you know, he was good inthose stints, but really kind of you
(37:15):
know, took a you know,downward spiral last year. I haven't gotten
off the Grant hype train. I'vebeen there since day one, since he
was drafted from Tennessee. I said, this guy is gonna be an impact
player. That's why you know,maybe a sign and trade with him to
get you know, an impact guard, impact wing. But pick twenty five
tonight. I think it's gonna bereally important if they can get someone like
a Hommy Hawk as I've been allon that train, you know since even
(37:37):
when they had picked thirty five,I said, if he can fall to
that, But now they have pickedtwenty five, that's hopefully a range.
She's there and Andre Jackson. Theycertainly need, you know, an impact
player with that pick, especially salarywise, getting a rookie on a four
year deal on low money, Ithink it's gonna be big. But if
they can maybe dangle a first roundpick in Brogden to get another guard or
(37:58):
a wing, I think that's maybetheir next move. But we'll see.
I don't know. They have alot of faith in Pritchard, so we'll
see what they want to do goingforward. Yeah, I think the biggest
throe of the Celtics are made ofgetting Joe Mazzula some help with the assistant
coaches that know what what they're doingis. At times during the playoffs,
it looked to me not knowing,you know, anything that Marcus Smart was
called timeouts or telling the coach whenthey call timeouts. So you don't just
(38:21):
lose a great player, you losea guy that was kind of a coach
on the floor because the coach inthe sidelines sometimes looked like me trying to
coach my fighting mccasacs. Where unrollthe ball out, say all right,
boys, have at it. Hey, the fighting mccasacs did win a championship
though, if I remember, yehcoup championship. Yeah's not getting twisted.
So when I was a follower ofany sports page, I was a fan
of Fighting mccayasacs, the underdogs.But no, certainly you know, getting
(38:45):
Charles Lee, Sam Cassell, EmilJefferson, a Tatum guy. I think
that's a terrific hire Phil Pressy comingback. I was pumped about that one,
big Pressy guy back in the day. I think have Rajon Rondo on
that staff, I'd be very happy. But no, I think the coaching
additions have been huge. I think, you know, Joe and year two,
this is big. I mean,I think this is kind of it.
(39:07):
Can you get over the hump?Can you get us to a championship?
If he doesn't do it this year, probably a samca Seller, Charles
Lee probably slips into that head coachrole. That's probably why they're obviously not
here for that sole reason, butthey're here to you know, beef up
the staff and kind of help out. But they're certainly deserving candidates of heading
a head coaching job. So beefingup the staff I think was huge.
Certainly lacked in that department. Alot of Emay guys on that staff.
(39:29):
So it was just a weird situation. Obviously, you know, Joe getting
the job right before training camp started, it was just a whirlwin to you
know, win fifty seven games inthe regular season as a rookie head coach
with not your own staff, doingit for the first time. I think
it was a terrific accomplishment. Butthis is a Boston roster that kind of
needed to win a championship. Yougo all in with that Brogden move.
You had Derek White last year obviously, I obviously Brogden's hurt a little bit,
(39:53):
so that changes things. But withthe new CBA, if that if
we're on the old CBA and westill have Brogden, that you're running back
that roster, probably you had tomake some hard decisions with the salary cuts.
You know, Smart was unfortunately thatI think that was a last resort,
but obviously a movement. I thinkMemphis and Boston had discussed a little
bit. I would love Tias Jonesand Boston, but you know you're getting
(40:15):
Christopsporzingis, so you roll with DerekWhine to the point guard position. I
think you're handed them the keys,like I said, but you certainly need
another impact move I think, andfrom reports today, it sounds like Boston
is still kind of looking around foranother trade. So I wouldn't be surprised
if they maybe get one tonight orin the coming days. Final thing for
Lego Lance last year, I'm gonnaput you on the spot. Love that
(40:35):
favorite favorite Marcus Smart moment here inthis safe space for members of the Cult
of Marcus Smart. Gosh. Imean one of my favorite was I mean,
I think this is one of everyone'sfavorites. Was a regular season game
against Houston, drawing those two chargesagainst James Harden, winning that game that
was terrific. His triple double whenhe came back against Miami, missing game
(40:57):
one, comes back game too.I mean, that guy just gave his
all. I was a mark.I mean I'm wearing a Marcus Smart jersey
right now, just I know onyes, no, no one can see
it. You're just listening. Butno, there there were so many moments.
That was a guy that always steppedup in the playoffs. And that's
what everyone's saying now. I mean, he saved his best basketball for the
playoffs. Even you know, hewould coach through the regular season, he
would have good moments, but thatguy always showed up. Game six against
(41:20):
Philly this year, he was arguablythe best player on the floor when we
needed a most got us to agame seven. Obviously Jason Tatuman heroics in
the fourth quarter, but that guyalways showed up. True Celtic love him
for life. I'm gonna be I'llprobably get a Marcus Smart Grizzly shirt.
At least, I'm probably not buyinga jersey because I'm hoping when his contracts
up in three years, he's comingback to Boston. But well we'll see
(41:43):
that when it comes. But somany moments, you know, I mean,
set the three point record in agame for the Celtics. I mean,
he has so many, you know, records. I mean, he
never missed the playoffs as a player, that that guy just gave it as
all. He loved the city andobviously he shocked today and I think we
all are, but you know,he gave it his all. I'll always
(42:04):
love Marcus Smart. Thank I wishwe would have wanted to ring with him.
Got We were so close last yeareven this year, I was like,
Oh, we got to win achampionship with this guy, him and
the Jays. Everyone wanted to discredit, Oh he's on a part of that
core. It was those three guysyou know, that carried us so far
the year prior against the Warriors gettingthere to the finals, and just every
year since always shows up for ushustles. I love him for life.
(42:28):
Hopefully we're you know, probably won'thang thirty six, but I would do
it in an instant because that guyjust meant so much to the organization.
You never know, lance Lasar,I'll try to pick up the pieces and
move on. Thanks for being onovertime. Much appreciate it, man,
appreciate it. Right. That waslance las year on overtime talking about the
Celtics. Terms oft. They didn'tdo much during the draft on Thursday night.
(42:49):
We take that Thursday right before thedraft, but thanks to Lance.
Check him out on Twitter and hedoes great work with my boy Dave Healey's
website and h Sports page dot com. Make sure you check out everything he
does. My thanks also to DanteScala, who joined the show. You
heard him in the first two segments. As always, if you joined the
show late, you can download thepodcast on your favorite podcasting app. The
bosses like me to tell you togo to the iHeart Radio app and listen
(43:12):
to it that way, but Idon't care how you listen to it,
just as long as you listen tothe podcast, rate review, give five
stars, all that sort of stuff. We'll be back next week with a
fresh episode. I believe we're gonnabe talking to Ed Bard Milla about well
something when we talked to Dante aboutand also might not talk a little submarine
submersible disaster and we collect it thedisaster. I guess it's also I'm gonna
(43:34):
see if David or offens time tojoin us as well. Until them next
week. Don't forget hippings are badpeople pretending to be good. Punks are
good people pretending to be back Seeletter
Welcome to All for Time. It'sthe only radio show ever to win a
World Series MVP. It took placein nineteen eighty nine. Do you know
what, You can't disprove that ithappened because you don't know who the nineteen
eighty nine World Series MVP was.So take that. I'm your host,
Jina Kisacking. Today in the program, we talked to Dante Scala, per,
professor of political science at the Universityof New Hampshire. Got a whole
(00:31):
lot of questions ranging from the currentto the historical with Dante. And it's
gonna take two seconds, because that'show long I talked to Dante for because
he's an interesting dude. Dan asmart dude with good answers to my excellent
questions. Also talk to Lancella's yearcertified green teamer about the tragedy known as
Marcus Smart getting traded away from theBoston Celtics. You can imagine how I
(00:52):
feel about that. The interviews takeup so much time. I don't have
time to jibber jabber with you.So we're gonna take a break, come
right back with Dante Scala that iscoming up next here and overtime. Keep
it here kind enough to join mehere on overtime is the one and only
(01:15):
Dante Scale, Professor of Political Scienceat the University of New Hampshire. Dante
Wiza, Hello, Justin, Howare you good? Good? Glad you
can join us? So just afull disclosure. We're recording this on Thursday,
so who knows if we'll have anotherpresidential candidate by the time this airs
on Saturday morning, But just thismorning another candidate, Will hearn is then
(01:36):
a Baker's dozen is at fourteen.I'm not sure, but there are a
lot of Republican candidates from president,which is surprising when you have a former
president who is leading the polls bya good amount in Donald Trump and seems
to be the runaway favorite to winthe domination. I can top that justin
because there are rumors that in aNew York Times story even that there could
(01:57):
be not three but four Florida thenin the primary field because Rick Scott,
us Senator supposedly is thinking about throwinghis hat in the ring stopping But is
that too much of a good thing? I can't even imagine or Florida then,
(02:20):
I think you and I have differentdefinitions of a good thing. Why
so that when I asked you tocome to the show and you were kind
enough to do so. One ofthe topics was and the a polysy professor
in North Carolina who have hand inthe show before. Edgard Miller, who
might see on online as Gin andTacos, asked this question, what are
(02:43):
all these people doing? U Itseems you know, and you know,
we in the media have to kindof like do this kabuki theater where it's
like, oh, yeah, maybethis person will do well, maybe de
Santa. We all kind of know. It's like twenty twelve when everybody knew
Romney would eventually win the nomination.We all kind of know it's gonna be
Trump. We're just waiting for himto get the most delicates. What are
all the rest of these people doing? What do you think their endgame is?
(03:06):
I mean there are I mean,there is some subset who actually believe
that they could be the nominee ofthe Republican Party, right. I mean,
one thing I always keep them oudwith politicians. What I tell my
students is what defines them more thananything else is their ambition. And their
(03:27):
ambition is most of the time rational. I mean, they're not irrationally ambitious,
but they sometimes I think their ambitionleads their reason rather than vice versa.
So but that said, though,I think some of them are auditioning
(03:50):
for a future role. I thinkthat's one thing to keep in mind.
Like take Nicky Haley, Tim Scott, these are people who would run in
you know, one Styald Trump isfinished running whatever that is, maybe twenty
twenty eight or even twenty thirty two. But these are people who are perhaps
(04:12):
thinking long term. It takes along time to build name id as a
politician when you're not named Donald Trumpand you haven't had your own television show
and all that sort of thing.If you're just a normal politician, it
takes a while to build national nameid. So sometimes candidates see their ambitions
(04:34):
unfolding, perhaps over the course ofa decade, more than one presidential cycle.
So you're trying to make a goodfirst impression and then maybe later on
in your career, you know,you can go back to your day job
for now and then run again inthe future. And I think that's especially
(04:55):
true for someone like Tim Scott overlapping. That is, you know, there
are candidates who are trying to makea good impression right now, because they
can see themselves being on the ticket. Right someone has to be Donald Trump's
number two. And so you thinkabout someone like Tim Scott in particular,
(05:21):
what's his defining characteristic? Everyone thinksTim Scott is a nice guy. Even
some Democrats think Tim Scott is anice guy. And he's well liked by
people on both sides of the RepublicanParty. And by that I mean people
who love Donald Trump, and evenpeople who dislike Donald Trump liked Tim Scott.
(05:45):
So someone like that might be thinking, Hey, if I'm out in
the field, if I make agood impression, maybe I'll get on the
ticket, which means that I'll bein the driver's seat. Let's say Donald
Trump is elected in twenty twenty four, if I'm Tim Scott, I could
be the next nominee in twenty twentyeight. Sure, there's a few things
(06:09):
off that, so e there's ifyou look at the last vice president of
Donald Trump, they had a cozyrelationship right up into the point where Donald
Trump's supporters wanted to hang him,and Donald Trump didn't really do a whole
lot to dissuade that notion. Otherthan that Mike Penn's kind of like he
really carried a ton of water forDonald Trump. You can make the argument,
(06:31):
I think credibly so that Donald Trumpisn't elected without the evangelicals, that
Mike Pence kind of gave a permissionstructure too, to vote for a guy
who's had you know, two divorces, tons of affairs, you know,
used to go on Howard Stern andrate women's bodies, all that sort of
stuff. You know, that guydid everything he needed to do and at
the end was quite credibly nearly lynchedfor not doing one thing right. So
(06:56):
I don't I don't know why you'dwant to be Unald Trump's vice president,
and that, setting aside all theother things Donald Trump is said about everybody
that's worked for him in his cabinetor in business or anything else. Secondly,
as you kind of alluded to,there's no guarantee if Donald Trump loses
in twenty twenty four, that he'snot going to run in twenty twenty eight.
Like we could be doing this foranother like or eight twelve years.
(07:20):
Right, It's not I mean,it's not impossible. I mean the you
know, at some point, justlike with Joe Biden, you know,
the his age is going to countagainst him, right, Mother and nasure
is going to teach him eventually.Yeah, with Donald Trump, right,
what's that? Mother and nature willeventually impeach him, right, right,
(07:43):
and teaches all of us sooner orlater. Right. So um, So
there's that, and then there's youknow, I mean there's the again.
Let me refer back to the ambitionpart. Yeah, you know, even
even seeing what happened to Mike Pencemight not dissuade another politician who will say
to himself or herself, right,that did happen. But it'll turn out
(08:05):
differently for me if I'm you know, Donald Trump will be retiring if he
wins a second term in office,and I'll be set up to be the
next nominee of the party. Again, it's it's a sign of the times
that despite all these points you make, and they're good ones, Donald Trump
(08:26):
is the key these days to advancementin the Republican Party. I mean,
if you're a member of the ifyou're a Republican member of the House of
Representatives, you are always thinking aboutwhat Trump voters in your district think,
because that's the key to your reelectionevery two years. Well, let me
(08:48):
throw this at you as well,because and there's another thing I wanted to
get you too, But there's noguarantee. Let's say Donald Trump wins election
to the residency in twenty twenty four, and let's further kind of like game
this out and say the Republicans retainedthe House, they also win the majority
in the Senate. Because it's fiftyfifty right now, there's no guarantee that
(09:11):
Donald Trump, given his past actionsand passed his prologue. I think that
he won't try to do something wherehe's able to retain the presidency beyond what
we would expect in twenty twenty eight. Right, So if you're running with
the ambition of being Donald Trump's vicepresident, now that's you know, that's
above and beyond what the Constitution says, of course, But I think we
(09:33):
live in a world right now wherewe kind of have to put these variables
into play. Who's to say DonaldTrump isn't going to try to do something
where he's president passed what the constitutionmandates he's allowed to be president for.
Do you think the factors into anyof this or no. I mean,
for a politician thinking about being Trump'snumber two, I think they probably see
(09:58):
that as far fetched, paired tobeing seated at Trump's right hand for four
years, which would give that persona lot of legitimacy, a lot of
popularity in the party that Donald Trumpsremade. So I think you probably you
know, again, politicians are alwaystaking risks, and that's you know what
(10:24):
Trump's behavior is obviously one of them. But again, you know, Mike
Pence was aware of a lot ofthese things, right, I mean,
he wasn't unaware of Trump's character.Maybe he couldn't see down the road to
what would happen in January of twentyone, but right right, I mean
he and he did it. Anyway, let me throw one more reason why
(10:46):
people get into the race. Sure, and I think they get into the
race for, you know, asJohn McCain would say, a cause larger
than themselves, like they wanted totry to change the course of their party,
like someone like Chris Christie is tryingto somehow reverse the course of the
(11:07):
party and get it back on theright track. Or they have a particular
cause or issue that they're trying tohighlight in the party. You know,
it could be a politicians who who'sat a stage of his career where you
know, they're they look, they'relooking, they're seeing the end of the
line, like they're not they're notgoing any further. So, you know,
(11:30):
some older guys buy a Maserati ora Ferrari. Others decide, hey,
let me let me run for president, you know, like a Lindsay
Grant. Right, get out there, You get on a vendor for a
couple of months, and then yougo back to what you were doing.
Are you Are you saying running forpresident is now like a midlife crisis type
(11:52):
of deal because I could buy intothat, yes, and it's a late
midlife crisis. I mean, youget these guys who run like you know
what you're Joe Lieberman's let's say,and so forth. You're, you know,
your hope, you've been a senator, You've kind of been there,
done that. That's the last rungof the ladder. So, you know,
(12:13):
especially because sometimes there's no penalty forrunning, even among your constituents.
I mean sometimes there is. Sometimesthere's not back home, but you know
why not? Sure? So letme ask you this. This is kind
of an off the beaten path question, but oh maybe not as a as
a polycyp professor, so I askedyou, what happens if Donald Trump won't
(12:37):
leave the presidency in twenty he winshe won't leave in twenty twenty eight,
or I guess it'd be January oftwenty twenty nine. Are these things as
a polysyp professor that you now haveto like factor into when you, you
know, teach class, when you'relike, do you have to like do
you have to reference like, youknow, like fascist regimes or you know,
(12:58):
post democratic regimes or that's A andB. Did you ever think that
would be the case in the UnitedStates where things kind of have run on
track? Really since I guess thebusiness plot against FDR in the thirties,
you know, did you ever expectthat to happen in the United States?
(13:20):
Nowaday, Well, let me startwith the second question. First, you
know, I imagine I guess theshort answers no, although looking back,
I probably should have known better becauseI started teaching political science in the late
nineties. So we're kind of comingoff of the Clinton impeachment, right,
(13:41):
And in some ways you can goback looking back on the nineties, you
can see the roots of what we'reexperiencing now. Sure, Right, and
so even though I mean, I'dbe a lot smarter if I'd been able
to see it kind of coming backin the nineteen nine nineties. But you
think about what's happened over the pastquarter century. It's been this tumultuous time.
(14:05):
Right, we had okay, wehad the Clinton impeachment in the nineties,
then we get we get nine toeleven, and then we get the
financial meltdown, right, And there'sbeen a lot of shocks to the system
that have occurred in the last quartercentury. And so again, you know,
(14:26):
hindsights twenty twenty. But you know, you can look back and say,
well, there were changes of foot, big things happening, and maybe
just like the shock waves have occurredand you know, created this really weird
situation where nowadays I always have tocheck myself and say, Okay, well
(14:52):
this is just weird, you know, like Robert F. Kenny Junior running
for president, you know, backin the day. And I found myself
doing it just several months ago,just being very dismissive. But but I
have to check myself and say,look, you have to, Dante,
you have to you have to disconnectyour rational professor's mind from your from what
(15:18):
comes out of your mouth as apundit, because you have to consider all
sorts of weirdness. And so Iget grief from my colleagues now who studied
democracies in other countries, because asfar as political science goes, for a
long time, you know, Americanpeople who cited American politics were basically on
(15:41):
this island of stability, right,and we would look at democracies in other
countries and say, well, instability, that's for them. But here in
the United States it's the same old, same old. Right, Now the
tables are turned, and now Ihave colleagues and who studied democracies and other
country is saying, aha, Dante, now you can learn from us,
(16:03):
right, because the US is showingall the signs of democratic fragility and instability.
Yeah, and so it's it's sothe tables have been turned in that
regard. Part two with Dante Scalais coming up next and overtime keep it
here. We're talking to Dante bestfor political science at the University of New
(16:33):
Hampshire. Uh So I'm kind ofa history JRK. For as dumb as
I am. Uh, people haveaccused me of being the either the dumbest
smart guy they know, or thesmartest dumb guy they know. I'm really
a student of history, but notto the extent that you are. Uh,
Is there is there a comp Uh? Is there a comp to what
the United States is going through rightnow? Either historically or more recently.
(16:56):
There wouldn't be like a like aCentral American country that's you know, their
democracy overthrown or what would you sayis the closest cont what the US is
experiencing. Well, let me letme stick to my own backyard and try
to think of an historical era inAmerican politics, And the one I go
to with my students is the endof the nineteenth century, okay, in
(17:21):
which then is now we had anawful lot of political polarization and a lot
of partisan loyalty, in which youhad a series of very close elections then
is now, and you had alot of people who were basically lining up
(17:42):
on either one side or the otherand sticking to their partisan loyalties year in,
year out, election in, electionout. And we see that these
days right with. You know howmuch people's partisan identity is really the sum
(18:04):
total of their identities period. Youknow, it takes in race, it
takes in whether they go to churchor not. So it's not just you
know, for a lot of peoplenow your identity as a Democrat or Republican
is really wrapped up in a lotof other aspects of your life, and
(18:26):
so you're much less likely to havea take it or leave it attitude toward
your political party, where in otherwords, like I could switch and vote
for the other party if I'm unhappywith how my current party is performing.
(18:47):
You know, nowadays it's much morelike, you know that the identity you
have toward your you know, yourfootball team, you know their ancestral loyalties.
You know, did Brady deflate theball? Right? I mean,
you know you ask people outside NewEngland? Right yeah, right, right
there you go. So I kindof think about that, you know,
(19:08):
as far as an historical era,we have a lot in common with that.
And and also I tell my students, you know, you know,
only sixty years ago, there werepeople who we called liberal Republicans and that
wasn't an insult, that was justa fact. And there were people we
(19:32):
called conservative Democrats. And so itused to be that people's ideology didn't necessarily
line up with their their party idea. But what's changed now is that nowadays
we clearly have a liberal party anda conservative party, so it's a lot
easier for people to sort themselves oneway or the other. But that creates
(19:57):
real so that in some ways that'sgood for democracy because people can decide,
Okay, well here's a party thatIDs with my values, etc. Let
me vote for them. Yeah,you know, just like some people say,
well I like McDonald's burger, soidentify. You know, it's easy
to choose. The problem is whenyou only have two choices, you're kind
(20:21):
of stuck. Like, all right, there'll be a lot of Republicans who
will hold their nose and vote forDonald Trump. Yeah, why what choice
do they have? Right? Arethey going to go vote for Joe Biden?
Right? Whereas if we had severalparties in this country, like a
right center party or AM a partyfor Romney Republicans, right, people could
(20:42):
move a little easier despite their ideology. Yeah. I think part of that
is the winner take all electoral collegesystem we have, which and this is
just me talking, which me seemswildly outdated and past. You know,
it's usefulness, but what do Iknow? Right? No, No,
(21:03):
A lot of people make that casethat if we had more of a European
style democracy, if we had proportionalrepresentation, right, right, so you
could have people like there are peoplewho would vote for I mean, yeah,
okay, the Green there's a GreenParty in the United States and they
get two percent of the vote.Sure, maybe on a good year,
Libertarians get like one percent, right, But if we had proportional representation in
(21:27):
Congress, there would be enough.There would be ten fifteen percent of a
different what's that enough to make adifference. Right, They would vote for
an environmentally conscious left wing party ifthey could, if they knew that their
vote would count, Sure, exactly. Yeah, So it's it's kind of
(21:51):
a fascinating thing, especially for studentsof history. Dote Schalar with us from
UNH before I let you know,because I've already I hopped on the zoom
late and taken up too much ofyour time. But I ask you about
Gavin Newsom, who, if youdidn't know any better, you'd think was
running for president, you know,offering to you know, going on with
Sean Hannity, offering to debate Ronde Santis. I get campaign style emails
(22:14):
from him, even though I livein New Hampshire, and he's the governor
of California. But he seems tojust be, you know, trying to
be Joe Biden's uh, you know, best surrogant right now, even more
than Kamala Harris, I would say, seemingly seems to be poised for a
twenty twenty eight run for president.Although you would think Kamala Harris would be
the assuming Joe Biden's re election,you think she would be the heir apparent.
(22:37):
But if there's that I talked withChris Galdieria a few weeks ago about
this, if Joe Biden were tosomehow be incapacitated or you know, die,
He's in his eighties, and Idon't think it's unfair to say he
could die before the election. Thisseems like a guy that really wants to
be president the next time there's anopen nomination on the Democratic side. Yeah,
(22:57):
I mean, it's I think it'sreasonable to assume that. Again,
he's an ambitious politician, and what'sthe after you've been governor of California,
you know what's the next run onthe ladder right running for president? And
it's not it's not too early toagain build your name ide looking forward to
(23:22):
twenty twenty eight or beyond, becauseyou know, one way or another,
Biden will be run his last electionin twenty twenty four, will have an
open spot, an open field intwenty twenty eight. And you know you
mentioned Kamala Harris a couple of times. Yeah, typically, right, the
(23:42):
vice president would have the inside track, and that could well be the case
for Kamala in twenty twenty eight.But we know that feel like a lot
of vice presidents has had her troublesbuilding positive name I D while in the
(24:04):
vice presidency, right, and we'veseen that happen to a lot of vice
presidents. If you think back toal Gore in two thousand, Um,
you know, did did Gore benefitfrom being Clinton's VP? Yeah? I
guess eventually, like in terms ofrunning for the Democratic nomination, but it
kind of run away from Clinton's recordthough character Yeah right, right, So
(24:26):
you know, if you're someone likeNewsome or or you know, uh,
Greshen Whitmer in Michigan, you're startingyou're starting to play that game of Okay,
where could I go next? Fromme here? And if you can
be Biden's buddy, right, Biden'ssurrogate, Um, it's worth a try
(24:48):
at this point, especially if youkeep insisting, well, look, I'm
not I'm not threatening Joe Biden here. You know, you make pretty clear
that you're not going to cross himby running against him, but getting your
name out there never hurts. Sure, all right, before we let you
go, Dante. Originally the ChristopSporzingis trade involved Malcolm Brogden. Now it
(25:11):
evolves someone who is third in myheart, behind Cameron mccaysac by Son and
Killy mccazag in no particular order.They're like both number one. I guess
he's number three. So now nowI have mixed feelings. What do you
think of Christop Sportzingis coming to theCeltics. Well, you know what what
we're I mean, I do thinkyou know we we had a lot,
(25:36):
We have a lot of talent atthe guard position. I would rather have
kept Smart than Brogden, given Brogen'sinjury history and Smart, I mean smartest.
This kind of not love hate,but like dislike relationship with Smart in
the sense that I mean he clearlyhas the toughness that I think the Celtics
(26:00):
need and that sometimes seems lacking fromfrom Tatum and Brown. That's certainly true.
But sometimes I get the sense thatSmart would thinks that he should have
the ball with two minutes to go, uh and shooting, which which never
pleased me. Well character, whoelse was out there? I like Porzingis,
(26:22):
but I worry about I mean,we have a lot of it's a
lot of fragility, yes, thecenter position when he takes the time lord
and Porzingis and an increasingly old youknow al for Al Horford's not quite as
old as Joe Biden, but he'sgetting there. He's getting there. Yeah.
Yeah, we don't have a lotof one of what Bamani Jones calls
can't go back now, Marcus Smart, Hell, a lot of can't go
(26:45):
back to us home down and alot of want to and uh yeah now
and now. Yeah, a lotof toughness lost. But just for the
record, I would I would laydown in traffic from Marcus Smarts. So
there's no love hate here. It'sall love on this side of the zoom
call. But don't thanks for doingthis. This was a ton of fun.
I hope we can do it again. Yeah, that's your thing.
You're very welcome. Journeys right nowon overtime is certified Green teamer and also
(27:18):
a media legend for any sports page. Dot Com also missed him at the
Southern New Hampshire games. You heardhere on Huge Radio six ten and also
this past year on Fox Sports ninethirty the one the only Lance Las year.
Lance. I feel like this isa safe therapy space for those of
us in the cult of Marcus Smart. Yeah, Mark, Marcus Smart lifers,
(27:41):
um you know, love and trusters. I think you can call us.
What a turn of events. Thelast twenty four hours have been absolutely
hectic. I've been happy, I'vebeen sad, I've been I don't know,
I have been all over the place. And I'm happy we're here together
to talk about this because it hasbeen a lot. So yeah, So
full disclosure or tables on Thursday.The show airs on Saturday. Of course,
(28:03):
if you're listening to podcast, itdoesn't matter. So there could be
more moves the Celtics make once westop recording this. The draft, of
course, is after we record this. It's Thursday night, so the draft
is happening, and maybe the Celticsmake another couple of moves, So who
knows, But just so, justso you have an awareness of when we're
talking about this. So, MarcusSmart, who's my favorite Celtics since Paul
(28:25):
Pierce. I'll backed up my favoriteCeltics since Isaiah Thomas, who was my
favorite Celtics since Paul Pierce. Soat some point I have to make a
lineage of favorite Celtics. There's agap there where it's the names are kind
of thing. Dido Raja makes anappearance and it's not great for anybody,
but he was traded to the MemphisSchirls. He's part of a three team
trade. The Celtic's got a coupleof first round picks in return, and
(28:47):
also on Christop Sportsini is coming offquietly a really good season for a really
bad Washington Wizards team. So there'ssome good to this trade, but there's
also for those of us who worshipwith the Marcus Smart, there's a lot
of bad. It feels like partof my soul and part of the team
SOULO man a cutout lands, howare you feeling? I am all over
(29:07):
the place I was. Yesterday wasmy birthday, so I was out with
my wife. I was mini golfingand I get a tweet from sham Sharania
says Eastern Conference contender interest in ChrisStops porzingis. I'm like, that is
Brad Stevens one hundred percent. Listento the video it is. I'm all
in. Brogden's in the deal.Terrific trade, Marcus Morris going to Washington,
they get the thirtieth pick. Thisis just a picture perfect move.
(29:32):
And then hours go on. We'rein the final stages. I think,
is what a Celtics For a whileand we get to ten thirty, I'm
like, ah, there's no way, like they're gonna get this done right,
and then woe is tweets. I'mlike, ah, here it is.
Deal has fallen apart, and I'mlike, oh, Chris Stops must
have not agreed to the you know, presumed extension that he's probably gonna get
(29:53):
with the Celtics. He wants thatsecurity going in, gets another chance of
that new TV money that'll be intwo years if you were to sign a
two year extension, which I thinkyou probably will in July. But the
Clippers are the ones that back out, the team that employs Kawhi Leonard who
has hurt every other day, PaulGeorge, who missed a huge chunk of
(30:15):
last season. They are scared ofMalcolm Brogden's medicals. And then it comes
out today that they couldn't get aphysical on him, and that costs us
Marcus Smart, which is just agut wrench. My cousin's a huge Clippers
fan. I said, dude,what the heck? Why would you guys
do that to us? I mean, it's a picture birthkey move. They
need a playmaker. Malcolm Brogen fitsthat role. He's going to start for
(30:37):
the Clippers. Paul George Kawhi,that's a great move for them. And
then you've dumped Marcus Morris's salary.And then we get here that they're the
ones that back out. They can'tget a physical on him. Brockden's injury
sounds a little bit worse than itis. He hasn't gotten surgery yet,
which is just mind boggling after tearingattendant in your shooting elbow. But it
costs Marcus Smart. The deal strikeseleven fifty three. It's still my birthday.
(31:00):
Yes, they get it done.Great birthday present. Details start swindling
out, Oh Tis Jones and thedeal. Oh they must have got brogged
and something, maybe a pick.Marcus Smart is going to Memphis. He's
going to be the starting point guardfor twenty five games while John Brant's out
the grit and grind. I mean, everyone was kind of comparing it to
Tony Allen when he got traded twentynine years old, great defensive career with
(31:21):
the Boston Celtics, goes on toMemphis and he's a legend with the Grizzlies.
And now Marcus Smart's probably gonna fillthat same void, and it hurts
a lot. I get you gettwo first round picks for Marcus Smart,
terrific. I think you're looking atit without the emotions. That's a great
haul you get. Chris stops porzingison a one year deal, two first
round picks twenty five, number twentyfive tonight in a future first from the
(31:42):
Warriors. But man, you justfirst ripped the heart and soul out of
this team. And I am shocked. I absolutely shocked. We're talk with
Lance Lagier, who is perhaps themost prolific member of weird Celtics. Twitter
if you, if you, ifyou follow Lance on Twitter. During game,
he reacts to sometimes every possession,sometimes multiple things that happened within a
(32:06):
possession, so he maybe knows morethan anyone what's going on when it comes
to the Celtics. Uh, yeah, it's I know, they had to
do something because it's you know,they've they've been running it back, uh,
you know for quite a few yearsand compared to most teams, a
high level of success. You know, a number of Eastern Conference file appearances,
(32:27):
won files appearance, you know,two games away from a championship.
Sometimes it can be hard to putthat in perspective, you know, not
you know, most teams don't getto the conference files, but when you
get there that many times with thiscore, it does get a little frustrating.
So I get they had to shakeit up. But my question is,
you know, who is going tobe the one who has a backbone
on this team? It doesn't youknow, Jason Teenam seems to be content
(32:47):
to be, you know, quietleader, leading by example, outstanding player
in my opinion, top five playerin the league. But he's not a
guy who's gonna grab someby someone bythe lapels and you know, shake them
when they need to be chicken oryou know, getting an opponent's face when
that has to happen. Jaylen Brown, he has quarters where it looks like
Michael Jordan he also has quarters wherehe looks like, yeah, you know,
(33:07):
he couldn't start for Saint Ansel.So it's none of those guys seem
to be the guy. Someone's gotto be the guy, right, Who's
gonna be the guy? I mean, I think you saw Al Horford at
times trying to, you know,be that energizer for them last year.
I think the move with porzingis justyou know, not talking about being the
you know, the guy getting everyoneeveryone's face. I think it's great insurance
(33:29):
to have three great quality bigs inHorford probably moves to the bench, maybe
he starts. Besides ports zingis we'llsee. I think, you know,
that guy is someone they might haveto acquire. I think Brad's certainly not
done. I think what we sawfrom Derek White last season, like I
was saying to some people today,I think they're gonna be you know,
there's some fourth quarters where Derek Whitewasn't even playing, which I thought was
(33:50):
absolutely ridiculous, going with you know, Smart and Bragdon some Knights. Brogden
didn't have it, but he's anoffensive threat, and Smart didn't have it,
but he's a defensive threat. Ithink, you know, Derek White
kind of getting the key. Now. I think it's really big. I
think they're really invested in him,which I am fully behind. If I
had to, you know, Iknew they were probably traded to Guard.
If I had to rank it,I was probably going Derek Marcus Brogden.
You know, I wanted Broaden tobe moved. I mean, obviously I
(34:12):
don't want him to be moved,but just with the cap situation, I
thought it was probably going to behim. Marcus was kind of a last
resort, and I thought Derek wasuntouchable. I thought he was terrific last
year, all the all defense.I think he's a guy that's probably gonna
have to step up to him.But I think Brad Stevens with this move
is you know, even if theJay's didn't or didn't sign off on it,
probably saying you guys have to stepup, you guys kind of caused
this. We didn't win a championshipthe last two years. We should have
(34:35):
been there this past season. Losingtwo home games to Miami is inexcusable and
you go down three, Oh youfight back, Derek White. Yeah,
I mean it's just absolutely, youknow, ridiculous. This team was you
know, hard to watch the pastcouple of months, but you know,
they shake it up. You say, hey, if you guys are gonna
be pissed, just you have toplay the right way. And I think
they're those two are gonna be theones that have to step up. But
(34:58):
you know of a gritten, gryndguy gonna, you know, be someone
for this team, It's someone they'reprobably gonna have to acquire. I don't
know if someone, If that someone'son the roster right now, it doesn't
seem like it, but the Jaysare certainly gonna have to step up.
And from an emotional standpoint, Ithink, yeah, it seems like the
Celtics still have a move to make. And whether that's trading Jaylen Brown or
whatever it is, it seems likethey have to. You know, right
(35:19):
now, they got rid of theirbest defender and you know they added Chris
stop sportzingis who you know, tosteal a praise from Bonnie Jones. He's
not big man. He's tall man, you know what I mean. He's
not He's not gonna go down therebank now. He average eight point four
rebounds a game last season, playedsixty five games for the Wizards twenty three
points per game. But also youknow who, to be fair, I
(35:42):
don't watch a whole lot of WashingtonWizards games because they were trash, so
who knows how much of that came, you know, the governage side or
whatever. But also guy that's hadhis own injury issues. They're gonna need
to get some more toughness and somemore defense. What do you think the
most logical moves are to make forthe Celtics. I mean, I think
with acquiring two first round picks,that Warrior's pick top four protective is kind
(36:04):
of intriguing, just with how they'regoing to be this next season, so
that could be a really good pick. I think, you know, putting
Brockton was technically a Clipper for likesix hours, obviously it wasn't official.
I think they still try to movehim. The reports artist injury is really
not looking good. It's going tobe hard to trade him. But if
you attach a first to that,I think that's why they wanted those picks
to maybe you know, get animpact player. I do think you need
(36:27):
another guard. You definitely need abig wing. I think you're good with
the bigs right now. Obviously youhave Rob Porzingis who I think is going
to be just a menace and dribblehandoffs and you know, pick and pop
situations. So I think that's whythey wanted him. But he's just got
to stay healthy, you know.I think another wing to kind of relieve
the Jay's a little bit will certainlybe something of interest. You know,
I've heard Grant Williams his time inBoston is kind of looking like it's done,
(36:52):
just with getting poor Zingis money wiselast year, Yeah, what wasn't
great. Obviously Joe didn't trust himfrom the report that came out that you
know, Jalen and Jason were like, we got to play this guy.
And I think that's why he playedin that Miami series. They were the
ones kind of you know, wishingand you know, kind of hoping he
would play, and they asked forthat and that's what they got. And
you know, he was good inthose stints, but really kind of you
(37:15):
know, took a you know,downward spiral last year. I haven't gotten
off the Grant hype train. I'vebeen there since day one, since he
was drafted from Tennessee. I said, this guy is gonna be an impact
player. That's why you know,maybe a sign and trade with him to
get you know, an impact guard, impact wing. But pick twenty five
tonight. I think it's gonna bereally important if they can get someone like
a Hommy Hawk as I've been allon that train, you know since even
(37:37):
when they had picked thirty five,I said, if he can fall to
that, But now they have pickedtwenty five, that's hopefully a range.
She's there and Andre Jackson. Theycertainly need, you know, an impact
player with that pick, especially salarywise, getting a rookie on a four
year deal on low money, Ithink it's gonna be big. But if
they can maybe dangle a first roundpick in Brogden to get another guard or
(37:58):
a wing, I think that's maybetheir next move. But we'll see.
I don't know. They have alot of faith in Pritchard, so we'll
see what they want to do goingforward. Yeah, I think the biggest
throe of the Celtics are made ofgetting Joe Mazzula some help with the assistant
coaches that know what what they're doingis. At times during the playoffs,
it looked to me not knowing,you know, anything that Marcus Smart was
called timeouts or telling the coach whenthey call timeouts. So you don't just
(38:21):
lose a great player, you losea guy that was kind of a coach
on the floor because the coach inthe sidelines sometimes looked like me trying to
coach my fighting mccasacs. Where unrollthe ball out, say all right,
boys, have at it. Hey, the fighting mccasacs did win a championship
though, if I remember, yehcoup championship. Yeah's not getting twisted.
So when I was a follower ofany sports page, I was a fan
of Fighting mccayasacs, the underdogs.But no, certainly you know, getting
(38:45):
Charles Lee, Sam Cassell, EmilJefferson, a Tatum guy. I think
that's a terrific hire Phil Pressy comingback. I was pumped about that one,
big Pressy guy back in the day. I think have Rajon Rondo on
that staff, I'd be very happy. But no, I think the coaching
additions have been huge. I think, you know, Joe and year two,
this is big. I mean,I think this is kind of it.
(39:07):
Can you get over the hump?Can you get us to a championship?
If he doesn't do it this year, probably a samca Seller, Charles
Lee probably slips into that head coachrole. That's probably why they're obviously not
here for that sole reason, butthey're here to you know, beef up
the staff and kind of help out. But they're certainly deserving candidates of heading
a head coaching job. So beefingup the staff I think was huge.
Certainly lacked in that department. Alot of Emay guys on that staff.
(39:29):
So it was just a weird situation. Obviously, you know, Joe getting
the job right before training camp started, it was just a whirlwin to you
know, win fifty seven games inthe regular season as a rookie head coach
with not your own staff, doingit for the first time. I think
it was a terrific accomplishment. Butthis is a Boston roster that kind of
needed to win a championship. Yougo all in with that Brogden move.
You had Derek White last year obviously, I obviously Brogden's hurt a little bit,
(39:53):
so that changes things. But withthe new CBA, if that if
we're on the old CBA and westill have Brogden, that you're running back
that roster, probably you had tomake some hard decisions with the salary cuts.
You know, Smart was unfortunately thatI think that was a last resort,
but obviously a movement. I thinkMemphis and Boston had discussed a little
bit. I would love Tias Jonesand Boston, but you know you're getting
(40:15):
Christopsporzingis, so you roll with DerekWhine to the point guard position. I
think you're handed them the keys,like I said, but you certainly need
another impact move I think, andfrom reports today, it sounds like Boston
is still kind of looking around foranother trade. So I wouldn't be surprised
if they maybe get one tonight orin the coming days. Final thing for
Lego Lance last year, I'm gonnaput you on the spot. Love that
(40:35):
favorite favorite Marcus Smart moment here inthis safe space for members of the Cult
of Marcus Smart. Gosh. Imean one of my favorite was I mean,
I think this is one of everyone'sfavorites. Was a regular season game
against Houston, drawing those two chargesagainst James Harden, winning that game that
was terrific. His triple double whenhe came back against Miami, missing game
(40:57):
one, comes back game too.I mean, that guy just gave his
all. I was a mark.I mean I'm wearing a Marcus Smart jersey
right now, just I know onyes, no, no one can see
it. You're just listening. Butno, there there were so many moments.
That was a guy that always steppedup in the playoffs. And that's
what everyone's saying now. I mean, he saved his best basketball for the
playoffs. Even you know, hewould coach through the regular season, he
would have good moments, but thatguy always showed up. Game six against
(41:20):
Philly this year, he was arguablythe best player on the floor when we
needed a most got us to agame seven. Obviously Jason Tatuman heroics in
the fourth quarter, but that guyalways showed up. True Celtic love him
for life. I'm gonna be I'llprobably get a Marcus Smart Grizzly shirt.
At least, I'm probably not buyinga jersey because I'm hoping when his contracts
up in three years, he's comingback to Boston. But well we'll see
(41:43):
that when it comes. But somany moments, you know, I mean,
set the three point record in agame for the Celtics. I mean,
he has so many, you know, records. I mean, he
never missed the playoffs as a player, that that guy just gave it as
all. He loved the city andobviously he shocked today and I think we
all are, but you know,he gave it his all. I'll always
(42:04):
love Marcus Smart. Thank I wishwe would have wanted to ring with him.
Got We were so close last yeareven this year, I was like,
Oh, we got to win achampionship with this guy, him and
the Jays. Everyone wanted to discredit, Oh he's on a part of that
core. It was those three guysyou know, that carried us so far
the year prior against the Warriors gettingthere to the finals, and just every
year since always shows up for ushustles. I love him for life.
(42:28):
Hopefully we're you know, probably won'thang thirty six, but I would do
it in an instant because that guyjust meant so much to the organization.
You never know, lance Lasar,I'll try to pick up the pieces and
move on. Thanks for being onovertime. Much appreciate it, man,
appreciate it. Right. That waslance las year on overtime talking about the
Celtics. Terms oft. They didn'tdo much during the draft on Thursday night.
(42:49):
We take that Thursday right before thedraft, but thanks to Lance.
Check him out on Twitter and hedoes great work with my boy Dave Healey's
website and h Sports page dot com. Make sure you check out everything he
does. My thanks also to DanteScala, who joined the show. You
heard him in the first two segments. As always, if you joined the
show late, you can download thepodcast on your favorite podcasting app. The
bosses like me to tell you togo to the iHeart Radio app and listen
(43:12):
to it that way, but Idon't care how you listen to it,
just as long as you listen tothe podcast, rate review, give five
stars, all that sort of stuff. We'll be back next week with a
fresh episode. I believe we're gonnabe talking to Ed Bard Milla about well
something when we talked to Dante aboutand also might not talk a little submarine
submersible disaster and we collect it thedisaster. I guess it's also I'm gonna
(43:34):
see if David or offens time tojoin us as well. Until them next
week. Don't forget hippings are badpeople pretending to be good. Punks are
good people pretending to be back Seeletter
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com