April 29, 2024 • 40 mins
Oh hey there. Yes, I took most of a College basketball season (and then some!) off, however, we're back with new and exciting ways to listen to me complain about things!
In this episode, we're joined by David Roth of Defector.com , to talk about the basics - you know, Neoptism in Sportscasting, C. Thomas Howell, the whole deal.
You can read David's stuff here
You can listen to The Distraction here
Got questions? Suggestions? Hate mail? justinmcisaac@iheartmedia.com
In this episode, we're joined by David Roth of Defector.com , to talk about the basics - you know, Neoptism in Sportscasting, C. Thomas Howell, the whole deal.
You can read David's stuff here
You can listen to The Distraction here
Got questions? Suggestions? Hate mail? justinmcisaac@iheartmedia.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to overtime. It's been alittle bit, hasn't it poisoned? Girls?
This is an episode one of seasontwo. I decided in the middle
of a season on what is nowknown as season one, that when I
was really in the in the thickof it with I think I was still
doing football. We had college basketball, and I was doing like nineteen things
a week, and this kind ofgot a shuffled to the back of the
(00:25):
order. Plus on the radio side, we had some shows that were paying
money to be on the air replacedmy little show. So now you'll hear
this show in podcast form, andit gives us a little more freedom to
kind of do more and say more, and I don't have to worry about
hitting times, and we could usesome cuss words. It's a it's a
whole new land of free to visitit. So if you stuck with us,
(00:47):
kept us in your feet, eventhough there was nothing coming for the
last however many months. Welcome Back. Today's guest is David Roth off Defector
dot com. He also hosts adistraction podcast with Drew McGarry and not Gonna
waste sity. I'm just gonna getright into it with Roth as usual,
it goes in nineteen different directions.Sometimes it even makes sense upon listening back,
(01:07):
I noticed my microphone stinks. We'regonna have to fix that from when
we record at home instead of hearingthe studio. So bear with me on
that. Roth sounds fantastic as usual. So here it is David rothofdefector dot
com showing us Here at overtime isDavid Roth from defector dot com. David
does the tour of New England radiostations frequently, and he's making a stop
(01:30):
here in the granded state. Longtime, no speak. Did how you
been? I'm good, I'm good, i am happy to be talking to
you, and I'm happy to beable. I'm like later. As you
said, it's like the tour ofItaly, except for it's just with different
types of hot dog buns with shellfood on them. But I'm gonna mean
later today, unlimited showder when youtalked to Rich Kimball our buddy up in
(01:51):
me, incredible deal. There's nothinglike unlimited chowder to get the palette whatever
a palette does. What a unpleasantphrase that is. We're after a great
unlimited chowder. That's the chowder bowl. Yea a Simpsons gag would be like
like like a Captain Low's unlimited chowderand just over lying on the table.
(02:15):
So it was a limit to Neonsign dumping a mug of chowder endlessly into
a nautical themed face. Great,do you get James L. Brooks and
the phone? We have to pitchhim something. But yeah, it's been
a long time since we spoke fromI. I came up with this idea
(02:36):
of doing seasons in my show.And but I came up with the idea.
I mean, I got too busydoing a ton of college basketball games.
Still want to, like, youdo all this extra work. Yeah,
that's the sort of thing where youwere like you got lost reading a
long magazine story. And it wastwo months between our chats. I have
so many esquires backed up. Ijust have to get through them. It's
a basketball season. Did you havea good time? It was pretty fun.
(02:59):
Actually, it was the first yearI'd done games for you and H
and UH for for the men,and a couple of pinch hit for a
couple of the women's games. ButUH would for the for the conference tournament
going up to Vermont where you knowthey win the America East every year as
they did this year. That's quitean experience because I you and it doesn't
draw anybody until the playoffs. Unfortunately, we're trying to change that. But
(03:20):
Vermont, it was I think everynot everybody in Burlington, but everybody that
wasn't in you know, a studentor an employee of the college in Burlington
was there. And man, youtalk about a Homer Crown. A Vermont
kid would get called for a fouland they were aghast. Is the only
way I could put it. Thatwas scandalized. Yeah, it was.
(03:40):
It was something else, but it'sit was a fun season. Yeah.
I have a friend who is marriedto a woman that grew up in Vermont
and has for the longest time likehad I think he's probably found other ways
to talk to her parents, butthe way that he's like vibed with his
in laws in the past has beenlike do you remember when TJ Soarantine hit
that shot? Do you remember Taylorcopp and Rath and it works. It's
(04:03):
like the that is like a normalsecular thing in Vermont to care about the
basketball team. I was surprissed,Like you don't think about diversity when you
think about Vermont, but much likemaybe the lowest, yeah, in the
smallest in that like scatter graph ofall the different things. Yeah, oh
you know, they like they havea SOB and they like that in Jerry's
(04:24):
That's but the there was I willsay there was some socioeconomic diversity in the
crowd because you get the people thatgo to UVM who obviously have money or
or went there, or professors orstudents, and then you can just get
people from Vermont and it was veryit was pretty obvious who was so and
they were all kind of pulling inthe same dreve So I did. I
did enjoy that. But that's Iwent to a first time I'd been to
(04:46):
like a big time college game oncampus. I've been to a million small
time college games on campus because myfriends and I for a while would just
go to all the like NEC gamesthat were in New York. Like you
go to like an LU Brooklyn gamefor seven bucks and sit wherever you want
and it's nice, small gym.But I went to Tucson over the winner
to go see a University of Arizonagame with a friend who grew up there
(05:06):
and is a big Arizona fan.And it is again like I knew that
this would be the case. Theway that it is there is that there
is like the local gentry all comesdown from the foothills to sit in the
best seats at the game and thenjust sit perfectly still, looking like embalmed.
Right. Then above them there arestudents and desert freaks because everybody loves
(05:30):
the wildcats there, right, Butit is the sort of thing where it's
a very weird I mean, like, I guess that's what happens at any
sporting event. But I'm assuming thatthe the dairy folk that came in from
the hinterlands at Vermont were the likerowdy fans, right, I'm just trying
to picture this now. So youhave like Jan Brewer in the front row
and then a guy who's done peotefor seven straight days like Ted Rose behind
(05:53):
her. That would be fun,yeah, which is I mean, it's
a decent vibe as long as you'renot sitting next to the people that are
like the fourth place finisher and theLoute Olsen lookalike contest. But all those
guys are just like cooling out andthen they're gonna drive like very slowly fifty
minutes in the opposite direction. Beforeit gets dark, because you know,
(06:14):
yeah it's yeah after yeah not great. Well, well check the lute ulsen.
Jan Brewer boxes for the show,which I'm very happy to to have
gotten rid of early h So otherthan a Jan Brewer anymore, it's a
shame. It's a great work.You know. We love Jan Brewer.
We loved her. She was reallynot as attractive. I had a chance,
but I didn't choose to take it. The skin gar routine was lacking.
(06:36):
But I get a lot of sunout there. One of these days
it will just be a show ofyou and I talking to Trump to it
has Trump. He's too good dudelike mine. I basically do like a
B minus imitation of James Austin Johnson'simitation. You have the real, as
I was saying before we started recording, like the register, like it kind
(06:57):
of sounds a little a little wetand a little unhealth. And the way
that he does get there all thatslim. He's just just sitting there,
just decades of Big Max. Thatwas the thing Austin Johnson described the imitation
once was like you just have tolike either do or like actually do it
or imagine that you've just drank likea pint glass of whole milk, and
(07:18):
then like that's how you get towhere where that voice is? That's oh,
that's that's certainly an image. Uh. But what I can talk to
you about a couple of things hereand besides cham this end. Uh And
if I remember later, I'll haveto tell you a story about imitating George
(07:39):
H. W. Bush when Iwas a kid. But uh, you
brought up something or I brought upsomething one of us did before I started
recording about nepotism and broadcasting, whichis a touchy subject because I would like
to get jobs that pay a lotof money, and the best way to
do that is to not piss offpeople that have those jobs so that you
don't get black belt. But alsoI I hate it when someone's kid gets
(08:01):
a job that you know they veryclearly got because of their last name.
One of the one of the betterexamples, Uh, I'm gonna blank on
his name, but John Shulman theBlue Jays anounced right Sunday Night Baseball.
Yeah, a few years back.Dan's Dan, right, Dan, Yeah,
Dan Schulman, Yeah, Dan Shulman, his kid. I forget what
his kid's name is, but Marvin. Anyway, the Sun was doing what's
(08:24):
that? I said, Marvin,but that's not really his name. Marv
Albert, Steve Albert, all allthe Alberts and the Shulman said the same
names. So it was there wasa playoff game for you and age football,
and ESPN was broadcasting like ESPN threeor plus or I don't know,
news or the OCHO or something.So incomes I was doing color on the
(08:46):
radio at the time. So mybroadcast partner, Bob Littman, uh says,
Oh, it's Dan Shulman's kid isdoing the play by play. I'm
like, oh, because he knowshow to tweet me. He knows that's
one of my triggers. So heI'm like, oh great, And so
he goes over and talks to it. I want nothing to do with it.
Maybe he might be the nicest guyin the world, but I immediately
hate him. I'm a grudge carrierand it doesn't take much. So Bob
(09:07):
comes back and goes, guess howmany football games he's done, And I'm
like, how many, Bob?This is his first. And I had
to take a walk and came thiscame up out. He was doing radio
for the Blue Jays. Great,Well was it had he done any baseball
games before he got that job orwas it just uh, I think he
done a little bit, but hehe had he won the job over the
(09:33):
guy who's with the Orioles now,who had done toiled in the minor leagues
for like years and years and yearsand had gotten that kind of a shot.
But then then Shulman's kid came inand was like, no, it's
mine now, Yeah, incredible.This came up because I mentioned that I
had become aware of another Carry inthe broadcasting business, like of the Harry
Carry legacy, and uh yeah realgot a big reaction from justin kind of
(09:54):
surprised a little man. But Ididn't know that this was a I guess
it makes sense. I mean,I don't understand the business, like I
know that it's harder than it seems, you know, like because you can
tell the difference between like a reallygood play by play announcer and even just
sort of a replacement level one isvast, you know, as in any
other field of endeavor. I didn'tthink of it as like a heritable trait,
(10:18):
and so at some point when youstart seeing like kids or I mean
this is the third generation of Carrie. Now yeah, yeah, Harry and
then skip and then I've actually metthe guy who's a really nice guy,
the the Carry you're referring to.I can't remember his name, but yeah,
third generation Carry. But the firsttime this really ever got my goat
(10:39):
was there was an article about NoahEagle, right when do you got the
Clippers job? Right? And thenthe article on Twitter was no Eagle ex
how did Noah Eagle, fresh outof Syracuse get the Clippers job? That
I I was like, I havesome song I was gonna say, like,
if you're going to write like acuriosity gap head, I'm like that
(11:00):
it should not be for someone whois very famously the sun of the lead
play by play guy on NBA broadcaston TNT, Like, yeah, it
was, it was. It wasframed that way. And this is when
I was using Twitter about twenty sevenhours a day as opposed to now my
normal nine. But people were like, well, he sounds pretty good,
you know, he's ground Like,there's lots of people that probably sound just
(11:24):
as good as him, whose daddy'sdidn't you know, didn't get him a
job. Not to say I anEagle got him the job, but whose
last name didn't get him the job? And it's right, But play by
play I found is the it's thetoughest b maybe not the toughest thing to
break into, but like you haveto be able, you have to be
willing to work for free or closeto free for a long time. So
(11:46):
like people that I grew poor,so it was it was tough for me
to like I didn't get into untilmy thirties, but it's tough for people
that grow up poor, or minoritiesor anybody that doesn't know like seventeen people
already in the industry to break intoit. Of media is like that it's
just weird in this case because Iknow, it only feels like there's like
one hundred righting jobs left in theUnited States. It's really probably more like
(12:07):
three or four hundred. But withplay by play gags, it's like there
really aren't that many, right andso the idea that like some percentage of
them are set aside for legacies isa borrent. Like I mean, it's
just sucks the whether they're good ornot. I know a guy from the
like sort of mets DM who's likea college student wants to be a play
(12:28):
by play guy and has you know, had to do all of that sort
of free grunt work, going todo the Cape Cod League during the summers,
which is you know, it's Iguess it makes sense that you would
have to do an apprenticeship and thatthat would be like how you would do
it, you know, but alsothe idea of I mean, I suppose
this is one of those things wherepeople love to I mean, certain types
(12:50):
of people love to complain about diversityand equity and all that stuff. It
seems like there's a few of themthat like the complain about the Yeah,
but if you don't see the likethe structural forces that make it impossible for
people to get into stuff like that, which, of course, I mean
these people don't or they don't careto see it because they benefit from it.
Right. It's like you would thinkthat this is a job that only
(13:13):
like the sons of people who've alreadydone it, or the sons of successful
attorneys could do, right, AndI just don't think there's any evidence of
that. It's just, you know, it really has remained one of them,
seemingly one of the more stubborn fieldsin terms of resisting any sort of
change in that way. Yeah,And it's you mentioned like having to do
(13:35):
an apprenticeship, and you really dohave to put in like some time.
Not everybody's like good at it rightout of the gate, right like I
wasn't. I had to do.I did about a million of high school
games. You have to really likeyou have to buff out all the suckage
before you get to like a levelof competency where you know, not only
does somebody want to put you onlike a college game or a program,
(13:56):
but you don't feel like an assholedoing it, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah, because we allyou know, while I think everybody
involved in broadcast media is an egomaniac, we're also like most of us are
purplegally that's a word self conscious aboutit too. So it's classic accombination.
Some happiest people on earth, sharehappiest, healthiest, cleanest living, you
(14:22):
know, good spelling people. It'slike you are being perceived in this very
real way that like television for assomething that people talk about as you know,
a dying medium or whatever. Imean, that's like sort of a
macro level critique on it, likeit still dictates every single thing that happens
in this country, like every likeit is the one thing that like,
(14:45):
however, you know, there's fewershows and more people are streaming and blah
blah blah whatever it is. Everybody'sparents and grandparents are driven insane by it.
Every single day. They're still watchingit. It's not going anywhere.
It still makes money, which noneof the streamers do. And live sports,
I mean, like broadcasting sports isof if the lasting job. Yeah,
that like is destined to last inthis It's I mean, that's the
(15:07):
one thing that people still watch onTV when it happens. Yeah, the
only the only thing that's DVR proofleft is live sports. But it's a
it's a yeah, so and sonow everyone that knows me well knows that
they ever want to Like, I'mfairly chill most of the time, but
if anybody brings up nepotism and broadcasting, I'll just like like a like a
like Tom and the Tom and Jerrywhen the mushroom cloud comes out of his
(15:30):
head and steam out of the ears, that's that's that's me instantly. So
so are there like networks trying tohelp people that wouldn't otherwise get into the
field like working to do it.I know there are in journalism and stuff,
but they're like one hundred years behindthe other networks that are just about
like making sure that Peter Baker's childgets a job at the New York Times
(15:52):
as soon as he's done at Stanfordor whatever. Right, I don't there's
not many, And there was one. I can't remember the dude's day.
There's one dude in the midst ofthe pandemic who had the idea to start
raising money to try and get moreminorities into play by play, specifically,
right, because you see a lotof ex athletes that get into color commentary
and a lot of you know alot of black men and women who played
(16:17):
the game will get into color commentary. But play by play it's a whole
different nut to crack. So youhave to, like, you know,
you can kind of like come offthe field, like there was a kid
that played for you and H theyear before last, Brian S. Bennett,
who graduated. I thought he wouldbe good at color commentary. He
stepped in the role and he wasgreat right off the back because he knows
the game. But play by playingall the goofy formatics and when to hit
a break and when not and allthis other shit. It's it's tough to
(16:41):
learn. So there was one andI suck because I can't remember the guy's
name. But he set up afund to raise money to try and get
you know, get people like astipend so they can live while they're doing
like you know, a high schoolsoftball game with no shelter in April and
like the Northeast or something like that, which is what you have to do
to kind of learn the trade.Seems like the sort of thing that could,
(17:02):
as with a lot of things injournalism, that like one very rich
person who decided to care about itcould absolutely make that possible. You know
that. It's like we're a fractionnot to call out. I mean,
you don't know that Kevin Harlan's agood or bad guy, but like I,
given what he is getting paid,the sort of thing where it's like
yeah, like right, if heand two of his buddies decided to like
take out, you know, atwentieth of their paycheck and trust it to
(17:25):
a nonprofit that was run adequately,then like that organization would exist forever and
it would be able to keep doingthis every summer, right. But the
other the other problem is we're alsoall sharks and don't want anyone else to
get any work. I there wasone and one time Joe Buck did I
think he did, like a WorldSeries game right after an NFL game or
vice versa, and the neveryone madea big deal. But yeah, you
(17:45):
like lie right to it. Iwas like, oh, why don't you
throw one of those games to somebodyelse? Maybe? But in this winter
I found myself going from a unh basketball game to a Southern New Hampshire
University, which is Division two basketballdoubleheader. It's like, oh, yeah,
I'm that guy on a much smaller, poorer level. So we're all
(18:06):
Carnie's. Everybody is a Carnee inAmerica. At this point, you kind
of have to like it, certainly. I mean, it's sort of thing
you're you know, lucky in thesense that you don't need to be doing
it because you need the extra twohundred bucks so bad or whatever. But
it is like work is work like, and I think once you've gone without
or when you've had I mean,at this point, like I have a
staff job, I don't need tobe grinding freelance writing the way that I
(18:29):
used to do, but like Istill feel terrible when I turned down an
assignment, just like on principle becauseit was like for years, for ten
years, Yeah, it was likeI just couldn't do that. If I
turned something down, then that meantthat I had to like skip lunch for
two weeks. Right, Yeah,it's like sucks, but yeah when yeah,
it's when you do this kind ofI guess it's still a gig economy
(18:52):
for like people to do like Iplay by play, sportscastings, freelance.
You always have in the back ofyour head, Oh, if I skip
this game that I don't want todo, I'm gonna starve, Like even
though that's not logical, I alsohave this feeling that I think here,
as with like a lot of otherways of working, that like even a
modicum of a safety net at amacro level would make everybody not just like
(19:14):
happier, but like probably be betterat their jobs. Like, yeah,
so many people are doing stuff onlike just born aloft on Monster energy drink
and the determination not to like getturned out of their apartment. Then it
is like nobody's a one hundred percentat their best because you can't really afford
to be like everyone is just seriously, you know, a couple of bad
weeks away from feeling like really upagainst it and right, even if you're
(19:41):
not anymore, even if you're atthis sort of like level of mid career,
I don't you know. I guessit's success that like you and I
are at, just in the sensethat we're like older now and have real
jobs. You know, you spendthe time chasing it like that you never
really get it all the way outof your system. Oh yeah, it
gets in the walls that it becomesa part of you. And then yeah,
I think that's why, like partof its ego, but part of
(20:03):
it's why guys do like the sameplay by play job for forty five years,
even when they're you know, MikeGorman, who is the voice of
the Celtics until very very very recentlyon TV. You know, he probably
didn't need to work about twenty fiveyears ago, but he kept doing it.
But he's still had his fastball formost of it. Last few years
maybe not so much, but youknow, that's that's part of why,
because if you ever stopped, you'relike, well, how how am I
(20:23):
gonna live? Well, keep doingall right now, so probably, but
I also yeah, I mean Iget it, and to a certain extent,
it's like it's more charming when there'slike an old play by play by
guy than when there is like yourstate has two eighty four year old senators,
like come on, man, yeah, that's that could get a lot,
especially when they were deciding things likeshould TikTok be a thing? Should
(20:45):
almost people be allowed to live myday? We just set them off to
fight the Kaiser. Right, it'sgonna say, like you got like a
jitterbug phone. I don't really wantyour opinions on streaming video apps. We're
speaking with David Rotham defector dot com. I was thinking last night I watched
a bit of the U of theDraft. I'm not really a draft guy,
(21:06):
and uh, just because I can'tremember that many players, but uh,
I kind I think I watched theBelichick version on Pat McAfee because I
because I watched the altar of BillBelichick and Belichick was pretty good. But
seeing that whole crowd there was likewhat a quarter of a million people,
it's I don't know if this isrevision is history, but I kind of
(21:26):
missed when the coverage of the draftwas shittier. Yeah, like when it
was just like twenty eight GMS withthe helmet phones in a ballroom and Pete
Rozzell was like they pushed him outthere and do whatever, Like the Bengals
picked some guy. I don't know. I was eating before they Yeah,
I kind of missed that. Idon't know. I think that that's like
I don't know if that's a functionof getting older, if it's a fun
(21:48):
I mean, the NFL, especiallythough, has this thing where like they'll
just keep making it bigger, youknow, like there's not this sort of
thing where I mean, I havea coworker who lives in Detroit was going
to go to it, and apparentlythey were likeasically texting, like making the
message clear. They were like,if you are not already here, do
not come. Like it's like it'sdo full. It's not safe, right,
(22:11):
we didn't know that so many ofyou were going to be here.
But the if you are old enoughto remember when all of this was like
a little bit skanky and disreputable seemingthat like, and even the NFL Draft,
it's definitely come a long way becauseit was for a while like just
like perverts, like weird guys,whate hundred percent boys in the crowd.
(22:32):
They're all wearing sex Jets jerseys.Yeah, so many Jets fans because it
was in New York. But andnow I think it's like in some ways
I can't fault the NFL for likethey figured out that they have this knack
for spectacle and they're just absolutely keepingit going twelve months a year and like,
you know whatever, I guess that'sgood business. Like I, yeah,
I don't love the NFL, likejust as an institution. Obviously,
(22:56):
I guess nobody really does. ButI do like when you compare it to
like the way that baseball is,at least it seems to enjoy being the
NFL, like Baseball seems kind oflike constantly being like, can we get
less baseball in these baseball games?Like, you know, like the NFL
is really not afraid to be likeyeah, it's like four days of the
commissioner answering the phone and then goingto a podium and saying a guy's name.
(23:21):
Yeah, those guys get progressively moreobscure and less likely to have interesting
careers as the broadcast goes on,but it will people want on. And
I'm not want to call out anybodyfor watching things that are potentially boring,
because I watched Formula one, butI can't believe, like, when you
get to day three and it's likeeight hours of you know, of left
tackles from McNeese State, I can'tbelieve people are watching that whole entire thing
(23:44):
on a Saturday. I know,and especially I think by the time you
get to that, there are peoplethat like they have opinions on all of
those guys, and they're like,yes, finally, like that was my
favorite edge rusher in Conference USA lastyear, and I can't believe what lasted
this long. But there is alsothis people watching where you just kind of
don't have an opinion and then youknow, your team picks a guy you
watched like ninety seconds of highlights ofhim, and you're like, nice,
(24:07):
that don't get it. I wasguilty of that myself last night. I
think I watched one and a halfNorth Carolina football games last year and the
patrons picked Drake May and I waslike, oh, what are we doing?
Yeah, like half a second,I was that football guy. I
was like, all right, settledout me. Yeah, I my coworker.
Drew McGarry's a Vikings fan and isit was very intent on getting that
(24:30):
pick and getting Drake May and Icouldn't really get him to explain why,
Like he was like at this levelof caring about the draft where people just
kind of can't be talked to,like they can't joke around about it.
They're too serious. And then alsohe was just like, well, he's
like he's got the tools, likeand then it would be like send me
a video of like ninety minutes ofj. T O'Sullivan breaking down his game
(24:52):
tape and I'm like, I'm notgonna watch that. That's a movie.
Like I wanted to ask you aboutthis, but I kind of forgot about
it because David's podcast The Distraction withDrew McGary, which you can download it
very good everywhere. You know,we love The Distraction wherever you get your
podcasts. But I've been I've been, you know, I've read Drew and
(25:14):
listening to Drew and you and Drewback when you guys were both the Deadsman
for years. And you can answerthis if you want, or you don't
have to, but Drew has seemedto go through a real evolution over the
last two years or so where hewent from like, you know, football
fan, like you know, highlevel football fan to football guy, capital
f capital G Like he's really likehe's calling the Vikings wei and I thought
(25:38):
he was going to cry about KirkCousins when he got hurt. He seems
to have gone through some sort ofPokemon evolution where he's gone up a level.
I respect it, but it isthe sort of thing where I've been
trying to get him to explain iton the pod and off for a long
time, and it's tough because it'sin some ways he's like I've decided what
kind of fan I want to be. And usually when you hear he's done
like a lot of personal growth,like over the time that I've known him,
(25:59):
you know, like and I say, this is like a friend,
I love him. He really haslike grown up a lot as a dude,
yep. And yet the realization thathe's had as a fan is like
I'm going to be a dick,Like I'm going to be weird and I'm
going to be aggressive and I'm gonnaget Matt and like, and so there
is a sense where like I thinkhe realized like that's the type of football
fan that I actually am, andI'm not gonna fight it anymore. But
(26:22):
it is weird because it like cutsagainst all of the other stuff, Like
it seems like, oh, thetraffic is going in the direction of like
enlightened human being except for the onepurple football helmet car that's going the opposite
direction at a very high rate ofspeed. The funny part about this is
because we all know guys like thiswho are who love their football teams.
They're probably especially around here, thePatriots fans are mostly insufferable. Except for
(26:45):
me, I'm great, but youknow, but most football most football fan
bases are terrible, right, Iwould say all of them, uh are
terrible. But we all know acouple of those guys that are like way
too into their fel teams. ButDrew seems to be the one guy who
is self aware that he's way toointo it. Yeah, but he gives
(27:07):
himself yes exactly, you know,and I that part of it I completely
respect. Like there's definitely a partof me that it's weird because like talking
about sports is like one of thelast, if not the last, safe
conversation topics that you can generally havein life. Like if you know about
stuff and you care about it andsomebody else does, you can pretty much
(27:29):
quickly figure out if they're like ifthey're a creep or if they like are
just like a Stephen a guy orwhatever. You can sort of pitch it
down. But it's like a languagethat you can speak with other boys mostly,
but like, it is what itis. There is also though that,
like other there's a way of doingit that is not like toxic or
(27:52):
weird, because it is, uh, you know, you're just sort of
like letting yourself go. Yeah.But I wouldn't talk about the Mets the
way that I think think about theMets unless I was talking to someone else
that I knew also thought about theMets that way. It would do much.
Yeah, it's funny to see someonewalking around in real life like they're
on the phone with Mike and themad Dog. Yeah, Like they can't
(28:14):
make that switch from like, oh, I'm calling in to yell at the
Mike about the Yankee schedule too.No, I'm talking to real people who
haven't thought about it as much.One thing that I will say that is
interesting about it also a way thatpeople can't talk about it. There is
in a way that I feel likethere wasn't even five years ago. There
are so many more places now thatyou can get like decently good high level
(28:36):
analysis of like the basics of forinstance, quarterback play or that video podcast
that JJ Reddick and Lebron James do, yeah, talk the Game or whatever
is really very good. Yeah,like sort of like startlingly so. But
they are talking about sports in thesame way that like Jto Sullivan or Kurt
Warner's like video stuff on quarterbacks.They're talking about it as if you were
(29:00):
a person that worked in sports,like that worked for a team, or
that was like a coach or hadplayed at a very high level. And
I don't know to what extent,like everybody is capable of getting that.
The uh, the Reddick James onedoes have little like pop up video style
subtitles because when they're speaking the jargon, right, it's just like basketball patwa
(29:22):
back and forth between two guys thathave been playing it for a living for
twenty years. There's like a lotof stuff that even I as someone who
had watches a lot of basketball andlike you know, I played until I
couldn't play anymore, there's a lotof like jargon that I don't get right
that is like shorthanded or I rememberlike James talking about like staying in the
lane but like having one foot inand one foot out and sort of like
(29:45):
moving around. But they call uh, so you don't get a three second
call. Yeah, And I guessbasketball players just call that two nine ing
because you're in there for two pointnine point nine. Yeah, But where
like hearing someone say like, soI'm two nine ing in the you know,
in the lane, right, Yeah. If if you didn't put that
subtitle up there, I would belike Lebron is having a stroke like this,
Yeah, somebody can have an EMT. No. That's but so two
(30:10):
things off that. One, Ithink that's how like a lot of like
sports with a Z at the end. Dudes think they talk. I think
they know how to speak just walkingaround. And Two, I've had enough
experiences with coaches where they get comfortablewith you, like college coaches, well
those they'll start talking to you,not like you're a coach, but kind
of like you're a coach. LikeI'll have like like a Southern Hampshire basketball
coach Jack Perry slipped a few thingsin talking to me and also be like,
(30:34):
shit, I have to google becauseI have no idea, I mean,
because they're like but I don't wantto blow my spot with like plays
and actions. I'm at the levelthis is sort of the way that I
am also as like a just thelevel of being like a bad Jew that
I was as a child, LikeI can read Hebrew out loud, but
I don't know what it means,and I feel sort of the same with
like the way that when you hearpeople being like, yeah, it's a
(30:56):
horn's action. Obviously that worked betterthan the elevator doors action. I know
those terms, and I could probablydiagram the elevator doors thing for you,
But like, I don't know whatporn action is, Like I know that
like there's coaches that do it.I know there's teams that flourish with it.
But if you ask me to breakit down, I would just draw
you a frowny face on a drive. I don't have it, Like this
(31:18):
guy's open, he should shoot,That's what I would say. Yep.
But I remember, like even uh, like so when I was first getting
into the NBA, I watched theNew Jersey Nets somehow still manage to get
into the NBA. But I wasa child, and their broadcast team was
Iron Eagle and Bill Raftery did thecolor on all their games. They were
great, terrific team. You stillhear him together now sometimes on college games,
(31:41):
but not very often. A Rafterycalls Iron Eagle Bird, which I
loved his nickname. But Raftery useda lot of coaching talk too. But
was I mean, just because he'sthe best, to my mind, like
the best color commentator in the worldon basketball. I just think he's super
yah. Even though he's more catchphrasereliant in his older age, would say
something and then instantly tell you whatit was right, which was very useful,
(32:05):
but it's also like really hard todo basketball moves fast. Yes,
but he would say stuff like he'dbe like a little fan dribble here,
and then would be like that's whenhe does this, you know, challenging,
like especially for someone that you knowhe had coached and you obviously had
played too, But like, yeah, when that stuff becomes secondhand, I
know that. You know, anytimeI have to bring my wife to a
(32:25):
party where like there's a bunch ofpeople that work in you know, media
there right at some point we're gonnaeither be talking about people that she doesn't
know or be talking about things thatshe might have read using language or shorthand
that is not normal. Every industryis like that. You just feel more
self conscious when it's you and whenit's something that like a lot of people
(32:45):
know about, you know, yeah, like with sports, everybody can watch
it, everybody can get something aboutit. But yes, exactly, yeah,
right, which is like it's sortof bracing in some ways to have
like a sense of like how muchmore you don't know? But like I
don't know, the people that arethe most sure, they know the most
about it, are never going tohave that experience anyway. It's all about
(33:06):
being a dog. It's all aboutwanting to like all right man, yeah,
yeah, you got that dog inhim? No love that that dog.
David rothidefector dot Com with us beforeI let you go, one thing
I want to ask about because Ithink we're around the same age. I
just turned forty six. I thinkyou're either a little younger or how about
that last of seventy eight representing butyeah, man, so as part of
(33:31):
my I wish the draft was alittle crappier thing I find myself the older
I get being a little more reminiscent, and I feel like I had the
world's most boring midlife crisis. Recently, I bought a new Toyota Corolla and
we got a second dog, andI'm wondering, are you are you?
Yeah? I know, his name'sFred. I think he's asleep on the
by the way, full disclosure,when I talked to Roth or anybody over
(33:52):
zoom, I said, on thefloor in my living room. So he's
on the cast fish Fred hanging outour first dog, first dog who goes
not happy about it? But haveyou experienced any mild midlife crisis type symptoms
and if so, what are they? Oh? My god? Yes,
I mean we don't have kids either, so it's just it's me and my
wife, a turtle, and ourobnoxious meals that we cook for each other.
(34:14):
And there are definitely moments not oflike emptiness or whatever, like I
feel lucky, like my life isvery full, like I have my friends,
get my family, and you know, like getting older is not the
worst thing in the world, right, Yeah, But there's definitely times where
not even just is it, likeis that all? There is sort of
thing where it's sort of like I'vegotten to the same place to get tacos
(34:34):
every three weeks for four years,and like it's a nice little treat for
me. But there is a momentwhere you're just kind of like, I
gotta I gotta change something. Igotta get a fucking corvette. I'm gonna
shave my head. There's gotta besomething that changes. I'm gonna get an
ear ring, which is all everytime. As a kid, I remember
like I don't think that like midlifecrises were invented when we were children,
(34:58):
but they definitely like they're they're abigger deal. And did you see like
your friend's parents kind of going throughthat to a certain extent, Like I
remember seeing some of it where it'sjust sort of like like my buddy's a
little bit throwing his hair long,and I don't think that's a good idea.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, likeoh you're oh you bought an irocksy.
That's interesting, Well you have threekids's where are the kids going on
(35:20):
that? I'm like eleven, ButI think I sensed that this is like
a I'm understanding that this is sayingsomething about you that I'm like not really
equipped to process yet, but Ilike, yeah, that was that was
like I think I feel like therewas h if not half a third of
TV show plots were Oh, it'sa midlife crisis. Yeah, so much
of that yeah again because it waslike I think being written by people that
(35:40):
were like especially like whatever la TVwriter types at that time was like one
of the best livings that you couldhave, Like just you know, people
making five hundred thousand dollars a yearin eighties money being like, why am
I not happier? It's I thinkI'm going to write about my character having
a similar experience. I'm not sureif that happens in the New York City
(36:02):
area, but around in New England, my friend Jake and I noticed a
trend where whatever, some weird crimehappens, like if someone steals a backo
and like smashes into a liquor store, or if someone like takes a five
iron to somebody's car, it's alwaysa guy between the ages of like fifty
one and fifty seven. It's likethere's there's a certain type of dude that
(36:23):
hits that age, and whether it'slike a built up reservoir of regret or
you know, the alcohol or bothcombine. It's at that point they snap.
A lot of fifty year old dudesjust lose their minds, and that's
their version of the midlife crisis becausethen out of money for a beamer yeap.
That absolutely scans, especially because it'slike, yeah, that is the
(36:43):
sort of thing where I'm not sayingthat it's a good idea to steal a
backo and drive it into a liquorstore, but it is, we both
know. But it's relatable in away that I'm like kind of not that
comfortable going into further depth on it. Is like you get to that age
and you're kind of like, well, I'm starting to think I'm never gonna
win the cy young because I'm fiftyfive and I work in a Nissan dealership.
(37:05):
Yeah, so like what else isthere to do? You know,
like you're gonna be upsetting And Ithink I guess like some of it is
a question of like trying to andthis is hard. You know. I'm
like kind of talking to myself asmuch as I'm talking to you here that
oh that's fine having uh this sortof like network of people that you see
that keeps you normal. I thinkthat that is especially, you know,
(37:29):
like I've a lot of people livingin New York that, like my friends
that had kids, a lot ofthem left. It's just a really hard
place to bring up kids. It'svery expensive, and the schools are good
if you can do stuff, butit's like very competitive in a lot of
ways. It's a pain in theass. It can be done, and
I have friends that are doing it, and I'm very glad they're still here
because to the ones I get tosee. But you get older and you
(37:50):
sort of like that's the real sortof the challenge of this. Like I
used to be for you know,years on this kind of lifestyle where was
like I would text a friend atfour forty five and I'd be having a
beer with them before six, andlike you just can't do that any right,
you know. And and I've beenplaying under protest, I feel like
for the last decade where I'm justlike, no, you can still do
that, and then I'll do itand they'll be like no, I have
(38:13):
a child, like sorry, orlike no, I live in Minneapolis now.
You know, like there's a lotof just ways that it can't be
done. And so yeah, Ithink if you like, if you don't
have the people that keep you normalaround you, and you're not doing the
things that make you happy, thenlike you are on the long road,
somewhere on that road to stealing theback home, and so you have to
(38:36):
do you have to make good decisionsto make sure that that doesn't wind up
being you stealing the back o anew Netflix Stories written Jason Bateman's most sort
of despairing work. See Thomas Howellwith his big combent. You know we
love Thomas how You know. Theywere very nasty and unfit, and they
didn't let him into college. Hehad to take things into his own hands.
(38:59):
It was before it's because it wasSue woke David. That's what it
was. Woke did it. Buttoday must never know that the movie's soul
man exists. Everyone forget what Jsonand I were talking about. Do not
look up that movie do it butactually don't do it, but do it?
Look you not look at David offthe Defector dot Com and the Distraction.
(39:20):
Thanks for being on the show.Appreciate it, and I will I
promise I will go six months withouttalking to you again unless you really want
that, which case I will.Oh no, no, I just you
know, I'm not gonna get busycalling Mets game, so I'm around like
hit me up, but thank youas always for having me. I appreciate
him. All right, There youhave it, David Rof Defector dot com.
He also host the Distraction podcast whereverfiner podcasts are sold, and uh
(39:42):
yeah, he's one of the oneof the smarter dudes I know. So
definitely read his stuff and listen tohis podcast and all that other stuff whatever
he does. Just try to bea part of it because he's a smart,
funny dude. He does a hedoes a podcast called It's Christmas Town
where he and I'm Jeb are Jed. I'm sorry Jed, and I'm gonna
forget Jed's last name, but theythey do a pretty funny podcast talking about
(40:07):
Hallmark movies. So you should checkthat out as well. I think it's
called It's Christmas Town. So thereyou have it. All right. Now,
we're gonna try and do this weekly, if not more, perhaps less.
Got a lot of vacation time comingup over the summer, so sporadically
will be in your feed talking topeople I like and hopefully people you like.
So until then, remember if theseare bad people pretending to be good.
(40:29):
Pumps are good people pretending to beback. We'll see h
Welcome to overtime. It's been alittle bit, hasn't it poisoned? Girls?
This is an episode one of seasontwo. I decided in the middle
of a season on what is nowknown as season one, that when I
was really in the in the thickof it with I think I was still
doing football. We had college basketball, and I was doing like nineteen things
a week, and this kind ofgot a shuffled to the back of the
(00:25):
order. Plus on the radio side, we had some shows that were paying
money to be on the air replacedmy little show. So now you'll hear
this show in podcast form, andit gives us a little more freedom to
kind of do more and say more, and I don't have to worry about
hitting times, and we could usesome cuss words. It's a it's a
whole new land of free to visitit. So if you stuck with us,
(00:47):
kept us in your feet, eventhough there was nothing coming for the
last however many months. Welcome Back. Today's guest is David Roth off Defector
dot com. He also hosts adistraction podcast with Drew McGarry and not Gonna
waste sity. I'm just gonna getright into it with Roth as usual,
it goes in nineteen different directions.Sometimes it even makes sense upon listening back,
(01:07):
I noticed my microphone stinks. We'regonna have to fix that from when
we record at home instead of hearingthe studio. So bear with me on
that. Roth sounds fantastic as usual. So here it is David rothofdefector dot
com showing us Here at overtime isDavid Roth from defector dot com. David
does the tour of New England radiostations frequently, and he's making a stop
(01:30):
here in the granded state. Longtime, no speak. Did how you
been? I'm good, I'm good, i am happy to be talking to
you, and I'm happy to beable. I'm like later. As you
said, it's like the tour ofItaly, except for it's just with different
types of hot dog buns with shellfood on them. But I'm gonna mean
later today, unlimited showder when youtalked to Rich Kimball our buddy up in
(01:51):
me, incredible deal. There's nothinglike unlimited chowder to get the palette whatever
a palette does. What a unpleasantphrase that is. We're after a great
unlimited chowder. That's the chowder bowl. Yea a Simpsons gag would be like
like like a Captain Low's unlimited chowderand just over lying on the table.
(02:15):
So it was a limit to Neonsign dumping a mug of chowder endlessly into
a nautical themed face. Great,do you get James L. Brooks and
the phone? We have to pitchhim something. But yeah, it's been
a long time since we spoke fromI. I came up with this idea
(02:36):
of doing seasons in my show.And but I came up with the idea.
I mean, I got too busydoing a ton of college basketball games.
Still want to, like, youdo all this extra work. Yeah,
that's the sort of thing where youwere like you got lost reading a
long magazine story. And it wastwo months between our chats. I have
so many esquires backed up. Ijust have to get through them. It's
a basketball season. Did you havea good time? It was pretty fun.
(02:59):
Actually, it was the first yearI'd done games for you and H
and UH for for the men,and a couple of pinch hit for a
couple of the women's games. ButUH would for the for the conference tournament
going up to Vermont where you knowthey win the America East every year as
they did this year. That's quitean experience because I you and it doesn't
draw anybody until the playoffs. Unfortunately, we're trying to change that. But
(03:20):
Vermont, it was I think everynot everybody in Burlington, but everybody that
wasn't in you know, a studentor an employee of the college in Burlington
was there. And man, youtalk about a Homer Crown. A Vermont
kid would get called for a fouland they were aghast. Is the only
way I could put it. Thatwas scandalized. Yeah, it was.
(03:40):
It was something else, but it'sit was a fun season. Yeah.
I have a friend who is marriedto a woman that grew up in Vermont
and has for the longest time likehad I think he's probably found other ways
to talk to her parents, butthe way that he's like vibed with his
in laws in the past has beenlike do you remember when TJ Soarantine hit
that shot? Do you remember Taylorcopp and Rath and it works. It's
(04:03):
like the that is like a normalsecular thing in Vermont to care about the
basketball team. I was surprissed,Like you don't think about diversity when you
think about Vermont, but much likemaybe the lowest, yeah, in the
smallest in that like scatter graph ofall the different things. Yeah, oh
you know, they like they havea SOB and they like that in Jerry's
(04:24):
That's but the there was I willsay there was some socioeconomic diversity in the
crowd because you get the people thatgo to UVM who obviously have money or
or went there, or professors orstudents, and then you can just get
people from Vermont and it was veryit was pretty obvious who was so and
they were all kind of pulling inthe same dreve So I did. I
did enjoy that. But that's Iwent to a first time I'd been to
(04:46):
like a big time college game oncampus. I've been to a million small
time college games on campus because myfriends and I for a while would just
go to all the like NEC gamesthat were in New York. Like you
go to like an LU Brooklyn gamefor seven bucks and sit wherever you want
and it's nice, small gym.But I went to Tucson over the winner
to go see a University of Arizonagame with a friend who grew up there
(05:06):
and is a big Arizona fan.And it is again like I knew that
this would be the case. Theway that it is there is that there
is like the local gentry all comesdown from the foothills to sit in the
best seats at the game and thenjust sit perfectly still, looking like embalmed.
Right. Then above them there arestudents and desert freaks because everybody loves
(05:30):
the wildcats there, right, Butit is the sort of thing where it's
a very weird I mean, like, I guess that's what happens at any
sporting event. But I'm assuming thatthe the dairy folk that came in from
the hinterlands at Vermont were the likerowdy fans, right, I'm just trying
to picture this now. So youhave like Jan Brewer in the front row
and then a guy who's done peotefor seven straight days like Ted Rose behind
(05:53):
her. That would be fun,yeah, which is I mean, it's
a decent vibe as long as you'renot sitting next to the people that are
like the fourth place finisher and theLoute Olsen lookalike contest. But all those
guys are just like cooling out andthen they're gonna drive like very slowly fifty
minutes in the opposite direction. Beforeit gets dark, because you know,
(06:14):
yeah it's yeah after yeah not great. Well, well check the lute ulsen.
Jan Brewer boxes for the show,which I'm very happy to to have
gotten rid of early h So otherthan a Jan Brewer anymore, it's a
shame. It's a great work.You know. We love Jan Brewer.
We loved her. She was reallynot as attractive. I had a chance,
but I didn't choose to take it. The skin gar routine was lacking.
(06:36):
But I get a lot of sunout there. One of these days
it will just be a show ofyou and I talking to Trump to it
has Trump. He's too good dudelike mine. I basically do like a
B minus imitation of James Austin Johnson'simitation. You have the real, as
I was saying before we started recording, like the register, like it kind
(06:57):
of sounds a little a little wetand a little unhealth. And the way
that he does get there all thatslim. He's just just sitting there,
just decades of Big Max. Thatwas the thing Austin Johnson described the imitation
once was like you just have tolike either do or like actually do it
or imagine that you've just drank likea pint glass of whole milk, and
(07:18):
then like that's how you get towhere where that voice is? That's oh,
that's that's certainly an image. Uh. But what I can talk to
you about a couple of things hereand besides cham this end. Uh And
if I remember later, I'll haveto tell you a story about imitating George
(07:39):
H. W. Bush when Iwas a kid. But uh, you
brought up something or I brought upsomething one of us did before I started
recording about nepotism and broadcasting, whichis a touchy subject because I would like
to get jobs that pay a lotof money, and the best way to
do that is to not piss offpeople that have those jobs so that you
don't get black belt. But alsoI I hate it when someone's kid gets
(08:01):
a job that you know they veryclearly got because of their last name.
One of the one of the betterexamples, Uh, I'm gonna blank on
his name, but John Shulman theBlue Jays anounced right Sunday Night Baseball.
Yeah, a few years back.Dan's Dan, right, Dan, Yeah,
Dan Schulman, Yeah, Dan Shulman, his kid. I forget what
his kid's name is, but Marvin. Anyway, the Sun was doing what's
(08:24):
that? I said, Marvin,but that's not really his name. Marv
Albert, Steve Albert, all allthe Alberts and the Shulman said the same
names. So it was there wasa playoff game for you and age football,
and ESPN was broadcasting like ESPN threeor plus or I don't know,
news or the OCHO or something.So incomes I was doing color on the
(08:46):
radio at the time. So mybroadcast partner, Bob Littman, uh says,
Oh, it's Dan Shulman's kid isdoing the play by play. I'm
like, oh, because he knowshow to tweet me. He knows that's
one of my triggers. So heI'm like, oh great, And so
he goes over and talks to it. I want nothing to do with it.
Maybe he might be the nicest guyin the world, but I immediately
hate him. I'm a grudge carrierand it doesn't take much. So Bob
(09:07):
comes back and goes, guess howmany football games he's done, And I'm
like, how many, Bob?This is his first. And I had
to take a walk and came thiscame up out. He was doing radio
for the Blue Jays. Great,Well was it had he done any baseball
games before he got that job orwas it just uh, I think he
done a little bit, but hehe had he won the job over the
(09:33):
guy who's with the Orioles now,who had done toiled in the minor leagues
for like years and years and yearsand had gotten that kind of a shot.
But then then Shulman's kid came inand was like, no, it's
mine now, Yeah, incredible.This came up because I mentioned that I
had become aware of another Carry inthe broadcasting business, like of the Harry
Carry legacy, and uh yeah realgot a big reaction from justin kind of
(09:54):
surprised a little man. But Ididn't know that this was a I guess
it makes sense. I mean,I don't understand the business, like I
know that it's harder than it seems, you know, like because you can
tell the difference between like a reallygood play by play announcer and even just
sort of a replacement level one isvast, you know, as in any
other field of endeavor. I didn'tthink of it as like a heritable trait,
(10:18):
and so at some point when youstart seeing like kids or I mean
this is the third generation of Carrie. Now yeah, yeah, Harry and
then skip and then I've actually metthe guy who's a really nice guy,
the the Carry you're referring to.I can't remember his name, but yeah,
third generation Carry. But the firsttime this really ever got my goat
(10:39):
was there was an article about NoahEagle, right when do you got the
Clippers job? Right? And thenthe article on Twitter was no Eagle ex
how did Noah Eagle, fresh outof Syracuse get the Clippers job? That
I I was like, I havesome song I was gonna say, like,
if you're going to write like acuriosity gap head, I'm like that
(11:00):
it should not be for someone whois very famously the sun of the lead
play by play guy on NBA broadcaston TNT, Like, yeah, it
was, it was. It wasframed that way. And this is when
I was using Twitter about twenty sevenhours a day as opposed to now my
normal nine. But people were like, well, he sounds pretty good,
you know, he's ground Like,there's lots of people that probably sound just
(11:24):
as good as him, whose daddy'sdidn't you know, didn't get him a
job. Not to say I anEagle got him the job, but whose
last name didn't get him the job? And it's right, But play by
play I found is the it's thetoughest b maybe not the toughest thing to
break into, but like you haveto be able, you have to be
willing to work for free or closeto free for a long time. So
(11:46):
like people that I grew poor,so it was it was tough for me
to like I didn't get into untilmy thirties, but it's tough for people
that grow up poor, or minoritiesor anybody that doesn't know like seventeen people
already in the industry to break intoit. Of media is like that it's
just weird in this case because Iknow, it only feels like there's like
one hundred righting jobs left in theUnited States. It's really probably more like
(12:07):
three or four hundred. But withplay by play gags, it's like there
really aren't that many, right andso the idea that like some percentage of
them are set aside for legacies isa borrent. Like I mean, it's
just sucks the whether they're good ornot. I know a guy from the
like sort of mets DM who's likea college student wants to be a play
(12:28):
by play guy and has you know, had to do all of that sort
of free grunt work, going todo the Cape Cod League during the summers,
which is you know, it's Iguess it makes sense that you would
have to do an apprenticeship and thatthat would be like how you would do
it, you know, but alsothe idea of I mean, I suppose
this is one of those things wherepeople love to I mean, certain types
(12:50):
of people love to complain about diversityand equity and all that stuff. It
seems like there's a few of themthat like the complain about the Yeah,
but if you don't see the likethe structural forces that make it impossible for
people to get into stuff like that, which, of course, I mean
these people don't or they don't careto see it because they benefit from it.
Right. It's like you would thinkthat this is a job that only
(13:13):
like the sons of people who've alreadydone it, or the sons of successful
attorneys could do, right, AndI just don't think there's any evidence of
that. It's just, you know, it really has remained one of them,
seemingly one of the more stubborn fieldsin terms of resisting any sort of
change in that way. Yeah,And it's you mentioned like having to do
(13:35):
an apprenticeship, and you really dohave to put in like some time.
Not everybody's like good at it rightout of the gate, right like I
wasn't. I had to do.I did about a million of high school
games. You have to really likeyou have to buff out all the suckage
before you get to like a levelof competency where you know, not only
does somebody want to put you onlike a college game or a program,
(13:56):
but you don't feel like an assholedoing it, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah, because we allyou know, while I think everybody
involved in broadcast media is an egomaniac, we're also like most of us are
purplegally that's a word self conscious aboutit too. So it's classic accombination.
Some happiest people on earth, sharehappiest, healthiest, cleanest living, you
(14:22):
know, good spelling people. It'slike you are being perceived in this very
real way that like television for assomething that people talk about as you know,
a dying medium or whatever. Imean, that's like sort of a
macro level critique on it, likeit still dictates every single thing that happens
in this country, like every likeit is the one thing that like,
(14:45):
however, you know, there's fewershows and more people are streaming and blah
blah blah whatever it is. Everybody'sparents and grandparents are driven insane by it.
Every single day. They're still watchingit. It's not going anywhere.
It still makes money, which noneof the streamers do. And live sports,
I mean, like broadcasting sports isof if the lasting job. Yeah,
that like is destined to last inthis It's I mean, that's the
(15:07):
one thing that people still watch onTV when it happens. Yeah, the
only the only thing that's DVR proofleft is live sports. But it's a
it's a yeah, so and sonow everyone that knows me well knows that
they ever want to Like, I'mfairly chill most of the time, but
if anybody brings up nepotism and broadcasting, I'll just like like a like a
like Tom and the Tom and Jerrywhen the mushroom cloud comes out of his
(15:30):
head and steam out of the ears, that's that's that's me instantly. So
so are there like networks trying tohelp people that wouldn't otherwise get into the
field like working to do it.I know there are in journalism and stuff,
but they're like one hundred years behindthe other networks that are just about
like making sure that Peter Baker's childgets a job at the New York Times
(15:52):
as soon as he's done at Stanfordor whatever. Right, I don't there's
not many, And there was one. I can't remember the dude's day.
There's one dude in the midst ofthe pandemic who had the idea to start
raising money to try and get moreminorities into play by play, specifically,
right, because you see a lotof ex athletes that get into color commentary
and a lot of you know alot of black men and women who played
(16:17):
the game will get into color commentary. But play by play it's a whole
different nut to crack. So youhave to, like, you know,
you can kind of like come offthe field, like there was a kid
that played for you and H theyear before last, Brian S. Bennett,
who graduated. I thought he wouldbe good at color commentary. He
stepped in the role and he wasgreat right off the back because he knows
the game. But play by playingall the goofy formatics and when to hit
a break and when not and allthis other shit. It's it's tough to
(16:41):
learn. So there was one andI suck because I can't remember the guy's
name. But he set up afund to raise money to try and get
you know, get people like astipend so they can live while they're doing
like you know, a high schoolsoftball game with no shelter in April and
like the Northeast or something like that, which is what you have to do
to kind of learn the trade.Seems like the sort of thing that could,
(17:02):
as with a lot of things injournalism, that like one very rich
person who decided to care about itcould absolutely make that possible. You know
that. It's like we're a fractionnot to call out. I mean,
you don't know that Kevin Harlan's agood or bad guy, but like I,
given what he is getting paid,the sort of thing where it's like
yeah, like right, if heand two of his buddies decided to like
take out, you know, atwentieth of their paycheck and trust it to
(17:25):
a nonprofit that was run adequately,then like that organization would exist forever and
it would be able to keep doingthis every summer, right. But the
other the other problem is we're alsoall sharks and don't want anyone else to
get any work. I there wasone and one time Joe Buck did I
think he did, like a WorldSeries game right after an NFL game or
vice versa, and the neveryone madea big deal. But yeah, you
(17:45):
like lie right to it. Iwas like, oh, why don't you
throw one of those games to somebodyelse? Maybe? But in this winter
I found myself going from a unh basketball game to a Southern New Hampshire
University, which is Division two basketballdoubleheader. It's like, oh, yeah,
I'm that guy on a much smaller, poorer level. So we're all
(18:06):
Carnie's. Everybody is a Carnee inAmerica. At this point, you kind
of have to like it, certainly. I mean, it's sort of thing
you're you know, lucky in thesense that you don't need to be doing
it because you need the extra twohundred bucks so bad or whatever. But
it is like work is work like, and I think once you've gone without
or when you've had I mean,at this point, like I have a
staff job, I don't need tobe grinding freelance writing the way that I
(18:29):
used to do, but like Istill feel terrible when I turned down an
assignment, just like on principle becauseit was like for years, for ten
years, Yeah, it was likeI just couldn't do that. If I
turned something down, then that meantthat I had to like skip lunch for
two weeks. Right, Yeah,it's like sucks, but yeah when yeah,
it's when you do this kind ofI guess it's still a gig economy
(18:52):
for like people to do like Iplay by play, sportscastings, freelance.
You always have in the back ofyour head, Oh, if I skip
this game that I don't want todo, I'm gonna starve, Like even
though that's not logical, I alsohave this feeling that I think here,
as with like a lot of otherways of working, that like even a
modicum of a safety net at amacro level would make everybody not just like
(19:14):
happier, but like probably be betterat their jobs. Like, yeah,
so many people are doing stuff onlike just born aloft on Monster energy drink
and the determination not to like getturned out of their apartment. Then it
is like nobody's a one hundred percentat their best because you can't really afford
to be like everyone is just seriously, you know, a couple of bad
weeks away from feeling like really upagainst it and right, even if you're
(19:41):
not anymore, even if you're atthis sort of like level of mid career,
I don't you know. I guessit's success that like you and I
are at, just in the sensethat we're like older now and have real
jobs. You know, you spendthe time chasing it like that you never
really get it all the way outof your system. Oh yeah, it
gets in the walls that it becomesa part of you. And then yeah,
I think that's why, like partof its ego, but part of
(20:03):
it's why guys do like the sameplay by play job for forty five years,
even when they're you know, MikeGorman, who is the voice of
the Celtics until very very very recentlyon TV. You know, he probably
didn't need to work about twenty fiveyears ago, but he kept doing it.
But he's still had his fastball formost of it. Last few years
maybe not so much, but youknow, that's that's part of why,
because if you ever stopped, you'relike, well, how how am I
(20:23):
gonna live? Well, keep doingall right now, so probably, but
I also yeah, I mean Iget it, and to a certain extent,
it's like it's more charming when there'slike an old play by play by
guy than when there is like yourstate has two eighty four year old senators,
like come on, man, yeah, that's that could get a lot,
especially when they were deciding things likeshould TikTok be a thing? Should
(20:45):
almost people be allowed to live myday? We just set them off to
fight the Kaiser. Right, it'sgonna say, like you got like a
jitterbug phone. I don't really wantyour opinions on streaming video apps. We're
speaking with David Rotham defector dot com. I was thinking last night I watched
a bit of the U of theDraft. I'm not really a draft guy,
(21:06):
and uh, just because I can'tremember that many players, but uh,
I kind I think I watched theBelichick version on Pat McAfee because I
because I watched the altar of BillBelichick and Belichick was pretty good. But
seeing that whole crowd there was likewhat a quarter of a million people,
it's I don't know if this isrevision is history, but I kind of
(21:26):
missed when the coverage of the draftwas shittier. Yeah, like when it
was just like twenty eight GMS withthe helmet phones in a ballroom and Pete
Rozzell was like they pushed him outthere and do whatever, Like the Bengals
picked some guy. I don't know. I was eating before they Yeah,
I kind of missed that. Idon't know. I think that that's like
I don't know if that's a functionof getting older, if it's a fun
(21:48):
I mean, the NFL, especiallythough, has this thing where like they'll
just keep making it bigger, youknow, like there's not this sort of
thing where I mean, I havea coworker who lives in Detroit was going
to go to it, and apparentlythey were likeasically texting, like making the
message clear. They were like,if you are not already here, do
not come. Like it's like it'sdo full. It's not safe, right,
(22:11):
we didn't know that so many ofyou were going to be here.
But the if you are old enoughto remember when all of this was like
a little bit skanky and disreputable seemingthat like, and even the NFL Draft,
it's definitely come a long way becauseit was for a while like just
like perverts, like weird guys,whate hundred percent boys in the crowd.
(22:32):
They're all wearing sex Jets jerseys.Yeah, so many Jets fans because it
was in New York. But andnow I think it's like in some ways
I can't fault the NFL for likethey figured out that they have this knack
for spectacle and they're just absolutely keepingit going twelve months a year and like,
you know whatever, I guess that'sgood business. Like I, yeah,
I don't love the NFL, likejust as an institution. Obviously,
(22:56):
I guess nobody really does. ButI do like when you compare it to
like the way that baseball is,at least it seems to enjoy being the
NFL, like Baseball seems kind oflike constantly being like, can we get
less baseball in these baseball games?Like, you know, like the NFL
is really not afraid to be likeyeah, it's like four days of the
commissioner answering the phone and then goingto a podium and saying a guy's name.
(23:21):
Yeah, those guys get progressively moreobscure and less likely to have interesting
careers as the broadcast goes on,but it will people want on. And
I'm not want to call out anybodyfor watching things that are potentially boring,
because I watched Formula one, butI can't believe, like, when you
get to day three and it's likeeight hours of you know, of left
tackles from McNeese State, I can'tbelieve people are watching that whole entire thing
(23:44):
on a Saturday. I know,and especially I think by the time you
get to that, there are peoplethat like they have opinions on all of
those guys, and they're like,yes, finally, like that was my
favorite edge rusher in Conference USA lastyear, and I can't believe what lasted
this long. But there is alsothis people watching where you just kind of
don't have an opinion and then youknow, your team picks a guy you
watched like ninety seconds of highlights ofhim, and you're like, nice,
(24:07):
that don't get it. I wasguilty of that myself last night. I
think I watched one and a halfNorth Carolina football games last year and the
patrons picked Drake May and I waslike, oh, what are we doing?
Yeah, like half a second,I was that football guy. I
was like, all right, settledout me. Yeah, I my coworker.
Drew McGarry's a Vikings fan and isit was very intent on getting that
(24:30):
pick and getting Drake May and Icouldn't really get him to explain why,
Like he was like at this levelof caring about the draft where people just
kind of can't be talked to,like they can't joke around about it.
They're too serious. And then alsohe was just like, well, he's
like he's got the tools, likeand then it would be like send me
a video of like ninety minutes ofj. T O'Sullivan breaking down his game
(24:52):
tape and I'm like, I'm notgonna watch that. That's a movie.
Like I wanted to ask you aboutthis, but I kind of forgot about
it because David's podcast The Distraction withDrew McGary, which you can download it
very good everywhere. You know,we love The Distraction wherever you get your
podcasts. But I've been I've been, you know, I've read Drew and
(25:14):
listening to Drew and you and Drewback when you guys were both the Deadsman
for years. And you can answerthis if you want, or you don't
have to, but Drew has seemedto go through a real evolution over the
last two years or so where hewent from like, you know, football
fan, like you know, highlevel football fan to football guy, capital
f capital G Like he's really likehe's calling the Vikings wei and I thought
(25:38):
he was going to cry about KirkCousins when he got hurt. He seems
to have gone through some sort ofPokemon evolution where he's gone up a level.
I respect it, but it isthe sort of thing where I've been
trying to get him to explain iton the pod and off for a long
time, and it's tough because it'sin some ways he's like I've decided what
kind of fan I want to be. And usually when you hear he's done
like a lot of personal growth,like over the time that I've known him,
(25:59):
you know, like and I say, this is like a friend,
I love him. He really haslike grown up a lot as a dude,
yep. And yet the realization thathe's had as a fan is like
I'm going to be a dick,Like I'm going to be weird and I'm
going to be aggressive and I'm gonnaget Matt and like, and so there
is a sense where like I thinkhe realized like that's the type of football
fan that I actually am, andI'm not gonna fight it anymore. But
(26:22):
it is weird because it like cutsagainst all of the other stuff, Like
it seems like, oh, thetraffic is going in the direction of like
enlightened human being except for the onepurple football helmet car that's going the opposite
direction at a very high rate ofspeed. The funny part about this is
because we all know guys like thiswho are who love their football teams.
They're probably especially around here, thePatriots fans are mostly insufferable. Except for
(26:45):
me, I'm great, but youknow, but most football most football fan
bases are terrible, right, Iwould say all of them, uh are
terrible. But we all know acouple of those guys that are like way
too into their fel teams. ButDrew seems to be the one guy who
is self aware that he's way toointo it. Yeah, but he gives
(27:07):
himself yes exactly, you know,and I that part of it I completely
respect. Like there's definitely a partof me that it's weird because like talking
about sports is like one of thelast, if not the last, safe
conversation topics that you can generally havein life. Like if you know about
stuff and you care about it andsomebody else does, you can pretty much
(27:29):
quickly figure out if they're like ifthey're a creep or if they like are
just like a Stephen a guy orwhatever. You can sort of pitch it
down. But it's like a languagethat you can speak with other boys mostly,
but like, it is what itis. There is also though that,
like other there's a way of doingit that is not like toxic or
(27:52):
weird, because it is, uh, you know, you're just sort of
like letting yourself go. Yeah.But I wouldn't talk about the Mets the
way that I think think about theMets unless I was talking to someone else
that I knew also thought about theMets that way. It would do much.
Yeah, it's funny to see someonewalking around in real life like they're
on the phone with Mike and themad Dog. Yeah, Like they can't
(28:14):
make that switch from like, oh, I'm calling in to yell at the
Mike about the Yankee schedule too.No, I'm talking to real people who
haven't thought about it as much.One thing that I will say that is
interesting about it also a way thatpeople can't talk about it. There is
in a way that I feel likethere wasn't even five years ago. There
are so many more places now thatyou can get like decently good high level
(28:36):
analysis of like the basics of forinstance, quarterback play or that video podcast
that JJ Reddick and Lebron James do, yeah, talk the Game or whatever
is really very good. Yeah,like sort of like startlingly so. But
they are talking about sports in thesame way that like Jto Sullivan or Kurt
Warner's like video stuff on quarterbacks.They're talking about it as if you were
(29:00):
a person that worked in sports,like that worked for a team, or
that was like a coach or hadplayed at a very high level. And
I don't know to what extent,like everybody is capable of getting that.
The uh, the Reddick James onedoes have little like pop up video style
subtitles because when they're speaking the jargon, right, it's just like basketball patwa
(29:22):
back and forth between two guys thathave been playing it for a living for
twenty years. There's like a lotof stuff that even I as someone who
had watches a lot of basketball andlike you know, I played until I
couldn't play anymore, there's a lotof like jargon that I don't get right
that is like shorthanded or I rememberlike James talking about like staying in the
lane but like having one foot inand one foot out and sort of like
(29:45):
moving around. But they call uh, so you don't get a three second
call. Yeah, And I guessbasketball players just call that two nine ing
because you're in there for two pointnine point nine. Yeah, But where
like hearing someone say like, soI'm two nine ing in the you know,
in the lane, right, Yeah. If if you didn't put that
subtitle up there, I would belike Lebron is having a stroke like this,
Yeah, somebody can have an EMT. No. That's but so two
(30:10):
things off that. One, Ithink that's how like a lot of like
sports with a Z at the end. Dudes think they talk. I think
they know how to speak just walkingaround. And Two, I've had enough
experiences with coaches where they get comfortablewith you, like college coaches, well
those they'll start talking to you,not like you're a coach, but kind
of like you're a coach. LikeI'll have like like a Southern Hampshire basketball
coach Jack Perry slipped a few thingsin talking to me and also be like,
(30:34):
shit, I have to google becauseI have no idea, I mean,
because they're like but I don't wantto blow my spot with like plays
and actions. I'm at the levelthis is sort of the way that I
am also as like a just thelevel of being like a bad Jew that
I was as a child, LikeI can read Hebrew out loud, but
I don't know what it means,and I feel sort of the same with
like the way that when you hearpeople being like, yeah, it's a
(30:56):
horn's action. Obviously that worked betterthan the elevator doors action. I know
those terms, and I could probablydiagram the elevator doors thing for you,
But like, I don't know whatporn action is, Like I know that
like there's coaches that do it.I know there's teams that flourish with it.
But if you ask me to breakit down, I would just draw
you a frowny face on a drive. I don't have it, Like this
(31:18):
guy's open, he should shoot,That's what I would say. Yep.
But I remember, like even uh, like so when I was first getting
into the NBA, I watched theNew Jersey Nets somehow still manage to get
into the NBA. But I wasa child, and their broadcast team was
Iron Eagle and Bill Raftery did thecolor on all their games. They were
great, terrific team. You stillhear him together now sometimes on college games,
(31:41):
but not very often. A Rafterycalls Iron Eagle Bird, which I
loved his nickname. But Raftery useda lot of coaching talk too. But
was I mean, just because he'sthe best, to my mind, like
the best color commentator in the worldon basketball. I just think he's super
yah. Even though he's more catchphrasereliant in his older age, would say
something and then instantly tell you whatit was right, which was very useful,
(32:05):
but it's also like really hard todo basketball moves fast. Yes,
but he would say stuff like he'dbe like a little fan dribble here,
and then would be like that's whenhe does this, you know, challenging,
like especially for someone that you knowhe had coached and you obviously had
played too, But like, yeah, when that stuff becomes secondhand, I
know that. You know, anytimeI have to bring my wife to a
(32:25):
party where like there's a bunch ofpeople that work in you know, media
there right at some point we're gonnaeither be talking about people that she doesn't
know or be talking about things thatshe might have read using language or shorthand
that is not normal. Every industryis like that. You just feel more
self conscious when it's you and whenit's something that like a lot of people
(32:45):
know about, you know, yeah, like with sports, everybody can watch
it, everybody can get something aboutit. But yes, exactly, yeah,
right, which is like it's sortof bracing in some ways to have
like a sense of like how muchmore you don't know? But like I
don't know, the people that arethe most sure, they know the most
about it, are never going tohave that experience anyway. It's all about
(33:06):
being a dog. It's all aboutwanting to like all right man, yeah,
yeah, you got that dog inhim? No love that that dog.
David rothidefector dot Com with us beforeI let you go, one thing
I want to ask about because Ithink we're around the same age. I
just turned forty six. I thinkyou're either a little younger or how about
that last of seventy eight representing butyeah, man, so as part of
(33:31):
my I wish the draft was alittle crappier thing I find myself the older
I get being a little more reminiscent, and I feel like I had the
world's most boring midlife crisis. Recently, I bought a new Toyota Corolla and
we got a second dog, andI'm wondering, are you are you?
Yeah? I know, his name'sFred. I think he's asleep on the
by the way, full disclosure,when I talked to Roth or anybody over
(33:52):
zoom, I said, on thefloor in my living room. So he's
on the cast fish Fred hanging outour first dog, first dog who goes
not happy about it? But haveyou experienced any mild midlife crisis type symptoms
and if so, what are they? Oh? My god? Yes,
I mean we don't have kids either, so it's just it's me and my
wife, a turtle, and ourobnoxious meals that we cook for each other.
(34:14):
And there are definitely moments not oflike emptiness or whatever, like I
feel lucky, like my life isvery full, like I have my friends,
get my family, and you know, like getting older is not the
worst thing in the world, right, Yeah, But there's definitely times where
not even just is it, likeis that all? There is sort of
thing where it's sort of like I'vegotten to the same place to get tacos
(34:34):
every three weeks for four years,and like it's a nice little treat for
me. But there is a momentwhere you're just kind of like, I
gotta I gotta change something. Igotta get a fucking corvette. I'm gonna
shave my head. There's gotta besomething that changes. I'm gonna get an
ear ring, which is all everytime. As a kid, I remember
like I don't think that like midlifecrises were invented when we were children,
(34:58):
but they definitely like they're they're abigger deal. And did you see like
your friend's parents kind of going throughthat to a certain extent, Like I
remember seeing some of it where it'sjust sort of like like my buddy's a
little bit throwing his hair long,and I don't think that's a good idea.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, likeoh you're oh you bought an irocksy.
That's interesting, Well you have threekids's where are the kids going on
(35:20):
that? I'm like eleven, ButI think I sensed that this is like
a I'm understanding that this is sayingsomething about you that I'm like not really
equipped to process yet, but Ilike, yeah, that was that was
like I think I feel like therewas h if not half a third of
TV show plots were Oh, it'sa midlife crisis. Yeah, so much
of that yeah again because it waslike I think being written by people that
(35:40):
were like especially like whatever la TVwriter types at that time was like one
of the best livings that you couldhave, Like just you know, people
making five hundred thousand dollars a yearin eighties money being like, why am
I not happier? It's I thinkI'm going to write about my character having
a similar experience. I'm not sureif that happens in the New York City
(36:02):
area, but around in New England, my friend Jake and I noticed a
trend where whatever, some weird crimehappens, like if someone steals a backo
and like smashes into a liquor store, or if someone like takes a five
iron to somebody's car, it's alwaysa guy between the ages of like fifty
one and fifty seven. It's likethere's there's a certain type of dude that
(36:23):
hits that age, and whether it'slike a built up reservoir of regret or
you know, the alcohol or bothcombine. It's at that point they snap.
A lot of fifty year old dudesjust lose their minds, and that's
their version of the midlife crisis becausethen out of money for a beamer yeap.
That absolutely scans, especially because it'slike, yeah, that is the
(36:43):
sort of thing where I'm not sayingthat it's a good idea to steal a
backo and drive it into a liquorstore, but it is, we both
know. But it's relatable in away that I'm like kind of not that
comfortable going into further depth on it. Is like you get to that age
and you're kind of like, well, I'm starting to think I'm never gonna
win the cy young because I'm fiftyfive and I work in a Nissan dealership.
(37:05):
Yeah, so like what else isthere to do? You know,
like you're gonna be upsetting And Ithink I guess like some of it is
a question of like trying to andthis is hard. You know. I'm
like kind of talking to myself asmuch as I'm talking to you here that
oh that's fine having uh this sortof like network of people that you see
that keeps you normal. I thinkthat that is especially, you know,
(37:29):
like I've a lot of people livingin New York that, like my friends
that had kids, a lot ofthem left. It's just a really hard
place to bring up kids. It'svery expensive, and the schools are good
if you can do stuff, butit's like very competitive in a lot of
ways. It's a pain in theass. It can be done, and
I have friends that are doing it, and I'm very glad they're still here
because to the ones I get tosee. But you get older and you
(37:50):
sort of like that's the real sortof the challenge of this. Like I
used to be for you know,years on this kind of lifestyle where was
like I would text a friend atfour forty five and I'd be having a
beer with them before six, andlike you just can't do that any right,
you know. And and I've beenplaying under protest, I feel like
for the last decade where I'm justlike, no, you can still do
that, and then I'll do itand they'll be like no, I have
(38:13):
a child, like sorry, orlike no, I live in Minneapolis now.
You know, like there's a lotof just ways that it can't be
done. And so yeah, Ithink if you like, if you don't
have the people that keep you normalaround you, and you're not doing the
things that make you happy, thenlike you are on the long road,
somewhere on that road to stealing theback home, and so you have to
(38:36):
do you have to make good decisionsto make sure that that doesn't wind up
being you stealing the back o anew Netflix Stories written Jason Bateman's most sort
of despairing work. See Thomas Howellwith his big combent. You know we
love Thomas how You know. Theywere very nasty and unfit, and they
didn't let him into college. Hehad to take things into his own hands.
(38:59):
It was before it's because it wasSue woke David. That's what it
was. Woke did it. Buttoday must never know that the movie's soul
man exists. Everyone forget what Jsonand I were talking about. Do not
look up that movie do it butactually don't do it, but do it?
Look you not look at David offthe Defector dot Com and the Distraction.
(39:20):
Thanks for being on the show.Appreciate it, and I will I
promise I will go six months withouttalking to you again unless you really want
that, which case I will.Oh no, no, I just you
know, I'm not gonna get busycalling Mets game, so I'm around like
hit me up, but thank youas always for having me. I appreciate
him. All right, There youhave it, David Rof Defector dot com.
He also host the Distraction podcast whereverfiner podcasts are sold, and uh
(39:42):
yeah, he's one of the oneof the smarter dudes I know. So
definitely read his stuff and listen tohis podcast and all that other stuff whatever
he does. Just try to bea part of it because he's a smart,
funny dude. He does a hedoes a podcast called It's Christmas Town
where he and I'm Jeb are Jed. I'm sorry Jed, and I'm gonna
forget Jed's last name, but theythey do a pretty funny podcast talking about
(40:07):
Hallmark movies. So you should checkthat out as well. I think it's
called It's Christmas Town. So thereyou have it. All right. Now,
we're gonna try and do this weekly, if not more, perhaps less.
Got a lot of vacation time comingup over the summer, so sporadically
will be in your feed talking topeople I like and hopefully people you like.
So until then, remember if theseare bad people pretending to be good.
(40:29):
Pumps are good people pretending to beback. We'll see h
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